November 15th, 2005, 10:15 PM
Kayla has had runny stools since she was a pup. Vet has ruled out parasites or worms. He suggested looking at the ingredients of the foods she has been on to see which are the common ingredients, as she may have an intolerance. She has been on Medi-cal, then Kirland, now Wellness F&P. I looked at the ingredients and the only two ingredients that are in all three is flax seed and fish or fish meal. I need to find a food without either of these ingredients and was hoping people here could do me a favour and look at their foods and let me know if it is free of both of these ingredients? I have tried pumpkin and yogurt for this too but nothing firms her up.
Thanks a bunch!
November 15th, 2005, 10:27 PM
Joey is on Solid Gold just a wee bit
Bison | Salmon Meal | Millet | Brown Rice | Cracked Pearled Barley | Rice Bran | Canola Oil | Flaxseed Oil | Garlic | Amaranth | Blueberries | Yucca Schidigera Extract | Dried Chicory Root | Taurine | Carotene | Choline Chloride | Vitamin E Supplement | Iron Proteinate | Zinc Proteinate | Copper Proteinate | Manganese Proteinate | Potassium Iodide | Thiamine Mononitrate | Ascorbic Acid | Vitamin A Supplement | Biotin | Calcium Panthothenate | Selenomethionine | Pyridoxine Hydrochloride | Vitamin B12 Supplement | Riboflavin | Vitamin D Supplement | Folic Acid |
it looks like it has the two ingredients your Kayla is sensitive too.
November 15th, 2005, 10:31 PM
Doh. Seems like everything has either fish or flax!
November 15th, 2005, 10:54 PM
I just checked a sample of Solid Gold Hund n Flocken (sp) it had flax seed oil to.
If all food has it could you give her something to offset the runny poo. Would she eat bananas I've heard they are good for runny poos.
November 15th, 2005, 10:55 PM
A lot of the higher end foods have flax, so maybe you should try one without the fish first and see if that does it. Usually, if a dog has trouble with flax, it will show itself by causing itchiness, not usually loose stool...
Canidae makes one with just chicken as a protein source (but it has flax):
Canidae Chicken and Rice (http://www.canidae.com/dogs/chicken_and_rice/dry.html)
The Wellness "Simple Solutions" brand also uses one protein source and one carb source, but it has flax too...
Wellness Simple food solutions (http://www.oldmotherhubbard.com/dogs/simple_food_overview.html)
November 15th, 2005, 10:57 PM
Everything Solid Gold or Go Natural make has fish and flax in it. Everything Merrick makes has flax but not all have fish. (Merrick Grammy's Pot Pie has no fish). All of the Chicken soup foods have salmon and flax.
November 16th, 2005, 08:07 AM
I tried finding a food without flax in it and we just gave up. All the high end foods good quality foods have it. However, like prin said, Flax usually causes itchyness, not loose poop
I suggest trying one without fish first as well. I know that the one Odin is on Dick Van Pattons Natural Balance duck and potato and there is no fish in it. It's an allergy formula with only one carb and one protein. Maybe try that. It does have flax though.
November 16th, 2005, 09:33 AM
Ok, thanks for the info. I guess I will try out some food with no fish then and hope it works! Keep your fingers crossed for us!:fingerscr
November 16th, 2005, 10:11 AM
Natural balance original has no fish, but way down the ingredients it does have flaxseed. So hope that helps
November 16th, 2005, 10:17 AM
Kayla, my dog who's 1.5 years old always had runny stools also. It turns out to be just a sensitive stomach. I feed my dog walthems low fat and her runny stools happens only once in awhile now.
November 16th, 2005, 10:20 AM
Thanks Poodletalk! I've never heard of this brand, where do you buy it?
November 16th, 2005, 10:25 AM
You need to buy at the vet clinics. My friends dog is on it as well because of loose stools. With low fat, all the grease and oily foods that upsets stomach is taken out. It really works! My dog is 99.5% fine along with my friends dog. It's expensive but worth it!
November 16th, 2005, 03:37 PM
I have heard that adding Tripe (Trippet) to dog's food is very helpful.
Also here is a food that doesn't seem to include flax seed or fish(meal):
FirstMate Lamb & Potato
Lamb meal, potato flakes, brown rice, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), beet pulp, choline chloride, yucca plant extract, salt, calcium propionate, blueberries, cranberries and garlic.
Vitamin C, Vitamin E,Yucca plant extract, Vitamin A, Vitamin D, Vitamin K, Thiamin, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine(Vitamin B compound), Vitamin B12, D-Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Iron, Zinc, Maganese, Cu, Iodine, Cobalt, Selenium, Glucanase, Protease, Amylase, Cellulase, (Bacillus subtilis fermentation extract), Glucosamine MSM.
November 16th, 2005, 03:43 PM
First Mate foods are high quality.
Heres some of their foods and the ingredients
They have many different formulations so you can pick
the one best suited to your pets :
Potato&Fish Puppy Food
Potato flakes, Herring meal, Chicken fat (Preserved with mixed tocopherols), Beet pulp, Fish oil, Dicalcium phosphate, Choline Chloride, Salt, Calcium Propionate, Sorbic acid (used as preservative).
Protein (minimum)...................28.0% Fat (minimum).......................18.0% Moisture (maximum)................10.0% Fibre (maximum).................... 8.0% Ash (maximum)...................... 8.0% Calcium (actual)..................... 1.0% Phosphorus (actual)................. 0.5% Calcium/Phosphorus ratio.........1.9:1.0 Digestible Energy.........3900 KCAL/kg
Naturally Holistic (this is what I feed my pets)
Whole chicken, chicken meal, whole ground brown rice, pearled barley, organic spelt, whole steamed potatoes, herring meal, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), sardine oil, whole raw apples, whole steamed carrots, zeolite(TF183), alfalfa sprouts, dried kelp, Whole cranberries, whole blueberries, cottage cheese, organic flax, avocado oil, garlic, Yucca plant extract, rosemary, bee pollen, Spirulina algae.
Fibre (maximum).................... 4.0%
Ash (maximum)..................... 10.0%
Calcium (actual)..................... 1.0% Phosphorus (actual)................. 0.6% Calcium/Phosphorus ratio.........1.6:1.0 Digestible Energy.........3600 KCAL/kg
Chicken meal, wheat, Chicken fat, fish meal, corn gluten meal, corn, beet pulp, vitamins, minerals, fish oil, dicalcium phosphate, salt, choline chloride, sorbic acid (used as preservative).
Fat (minimum).......................20.0% Fibre (maximum).................... 4.0% Ash (maximum)......................10.0% Calcium (actual).................... 1.75% Phosphorus (actual)................ 1.20% Digestible Energy.........3850 KCAL/kg
Lamb Meal and Rice
Lamb meal, brown rice, pearled barley, ground yellow corn, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), beet pulp, fish oil, potassium chloride salt, choline chloride sorbic acid (to retard mold growth).
Digestible Energy........3180 KCAL/kg
their website is:
November 16th, 2005, 04:16 PM
Well First Mate looks good but according to their web site they don't sell it in Quebec. And my vet only sells Medi-cal. I guess the next challenge after finding a good food is finding where to get it!:rolleyes:
November 16th, 2005, 04:59 PM
We have Gomez on Burns and they have some that don't have flax or fish - check out their website:
November 16th, 2005, 10:05 PM
No offense, Poodletalk, but Walthams foods are not the best (unless they've invented a new one recently...). They make Royal Canin, and Medi-cal, which are both no where near the top...
They also make Techni-cal "Natural Blend" which is better, but still not the best (those have fish in them..).
Kayla, have you tried reducing the amount you are feeding right now? I ask because sometimes with the more natural foods, if you feed too much, the stool can be softer than you'd like. Maybe cut out 1/8 or 1/4 cup for a couple of days and see if it does anything.
November 16th, 2005, 10:59 PM
Does your food have gluten? This can also cause bowel problems. Acana Premium Dog food from Champion foods is available in Quebec, it does have flax but not fish, it is also gluten-free, made from human-grade chicken and lamb, naturally preserved and chock full of healthy stuff. Niki has been on it (Acana products) since she was a pup and she has always done well. I'm not sure the flax is causing runny poops, you may also want to look into a low protein diet, I have heard of too much protein causing problems for dogs. There are some low-protein foods available I'm just not sure of the brands, I'll look it up. Keep trying tho I'm sure you'll figure it out.
November 16th, 2005, 11:14 PM
Hey!!!! I found one with no fish and no flax (I hope... unless I didn't see it.). gottahavepets' low protein idea made me think of Avoderm. They have a veggie formula, but on my way to that, I found this:
Pinnacle dog food (http://www.breeders-choice.com/Dog_Products/pinnacle_dog_orig.html)
Chicken Meal, Chicken, Whole Oat Flour, Toasted Oats, Tomato Pomace, Fresh Potato, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Quinoa, Dehydrated Mixed Vegetables (Carrot Flakes, Red and Green Bell Peppers, Broccoli, Peas, Tomato Flakes, Celery, Garlic, Spinach and Parsley), Grapeseed Oil, Cottage Cheese, Egg Product, Lecithin, Rosemary and Sage Extract, Papain, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium Bifidum Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Licheniformis Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Lactis Fermentation Product, Salt, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Cloride, Zinc Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Iron Amino Acid Complex, Calcium Pantothenate, Ferrous Sulfate, Vitamin A Acetate, Ascorbic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Sulfate, Copper Amino Acid Complex, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Biotin, Sodium Selenite
Yey! I found one! Now you just have to find somewhere to buy it.... (which is why I didn't even bother to look at Timberwolf Organics- nobody can find them in Canada except Vancouver..).
November 16th, 2005, 11:17 PM
Oh, and if you go to the Pinnacle website, you can click on "Dog Foods & info" at the top in the red toolbar and navigate all the good foods Breeder's Choice Dog Food company makes (the Avoderm ones have flax though, but they have a few without fish, and the veggie one without meat).
November 16th, 2005, 11:29 PM
There is no flax listed as such, but lecithin is a product of flax, it breaks down cholesterol. It may or may not cause Kayla to react if it is the flax causing this. I did find another food that is available in Quebec, it is Dick Van Pattons Natural Balance Potato and Duck, or Venison and Brown Rice. They are available at Bio-Pattes and Le Reveil Du Maitre, in Montreal. Good thing my total lack of accent or pronunciation doesn't translate thru typing! Good Luck, the food you found looks great.
November 17th, 2005, 06:44 AM
Prin, my vet recommended it to me and it stopped her loose stool. She eats it and likes it.:) So I am not upset at all. I think all these new foods are good, but everyone has their own opinion My vet doesn't recommend Wellness at all, but I know of a high quality good food store that does. I have several friends who feed their dog Wellness (against the vets recommendation) their dogs love it and got very good results from it. I also went to this high quality animal food store, I asked for Solid gold since everyone talks about it here on this board. I thought I would get a small bag and slowly introduce it to my dog just incase she gets fed up eating her regular food. (She has been eating the same food for a 1.5 years.) The lady at the store told me, They would NEVER recommend anyone feed their dog solid gold! My vet doesn't recommend raw food at all, (nor do I want to feed my dog raw) but every time I go in this food store, they always try to get me to buy raw since it's the BEST for the dogs. I personally think it's matter of opinion and what works best for your dog.
November 17th, 2005, 11:46 AM
Well I went to my local health dog food store this morning. They had all sorts of foods including Wellness, Solid Gold etc but the store owner and I looked through all of them and the only ones without some sort of fish, fish meal, fish oil etc were Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance and Nutram (Nutram being her low end cheaper food, but still human grade ingredients). So I got samples of Natural Balance and two types of Nutram (one chicken, one Lamb) and decided to let Kayla pick. Well, she chose Nutram Chicken and Rice Mini-Bite Formula no contest. I put the samples in thirds in her bowl and she ate all the Chicken and Rice and left the other two thirds of her bowl.
These are the ingredients:
Chicken meal, ground rice, ground yellow corn, chicken fat (preserved with Vitamin E), dried beet pulp, flaxseed, chicken, chicken digest, potassium chloride, dicalcium phosphate, salt, lecithin, whole dried egg, choline chloride, dried cheese, yucca schidigera extract, glucosamine, chondroitin, Vitamin A, Vitamin D3, Vitamin E, Vitamin K (menadione), Vitamin B12, ascorbic acid (Vitamin C), riboflavin, niacin, d-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, biotin, ferrous sulphate, iron proteinate, manganous oxide, manganese proteinate, zinc sulphate, zinc proteinate, copper sulphate, copper proteinate, calcium iodate, cobalt proteinate, sodium selenite.
I am hesitant because two of the first 3 ingredients are grains, but then figured, hey, maybe Kayla would do better on more grains. Maybe she's even one of those dogs best on a vegetarian diet. Anyways, I'm going to give it a shot unless someone thinks one of the ingredients in there is really aweful and toxic? Thanks for all the tips!
November 17th, 2005, 12:18 PM
Harley was originally on nutram as a pup from the breeder, but as soon as he got home, he hated it, and did not do well on it, so we switched. Now on natural balance. works wonders for sensitive tummies, as harley has one.
November 17th, 2005, 12:31 PM
Perhaps the flax seed is the cause of the loose stool. I know for humans, while it is good for lowering cholesterol, it also keeps them regular. I feed Montana Eagle Pack Lamb & Rice which does contain flax seed, and just this week picked up a small bag of their Anchovy, Sardine and Salmon Meal with Oatmeal as I read where fish is hypo allergenic However, if fish causes problems, perhaps this was not a wise move.
November 17th, 2005, 12:34 PM
I don't particularly like the corn or the beet pulp (they're fillers), and chicken digest is pretty disgusting (partially digested chicken bits...ew). If Kayla doesn't do well on it, feel free to switch...;)
Poodletalk, asking for other people's opinions- like vets and retailers with alterior motives, always will lead to mixed reactions. I feed Solid Gold because I looked at the ingredients and they look good. There are no fillers, no preservatives and no by-products. I pick a food based on what is in it, not what people say about it. You pick, you try it out and if it works, great, if not, then you move on. But nothing will ever have me buying by-products or corn- no matter who recommends it.;)
November 17th, 2005, 05:26 PM
I'm very sorry, Lecithin is not a product of flax, it is a product of soy, I watch for it because two of my kids are allergic to soy and it's in everything, even dog food! Beet pulp with the sugar removed is better than beet pulp with the sugar still in, I would look for that on the labels. I avoid BHT/BHA like the plague and always look for human grade ingredients. My youngest used to eat the dog food which freaked me out until I checked the ingredients. He's such a picky eater at least he was getting some nutrition! If the nutram is at all like the natural balance it should be a good food, the natural balance has some interesting allergy formulas. This thread has been very informative.:thumbs up
November 17th, 2005, 06:05 PM
That my point exactly Prin. Everyone feels diffently about the food. My vet is an excellent vet, she's one of the only vets in the Province of Quebec who's really not in it for the money. She's 100% concerned about animal welfare. She recommended the food and it works for my dog. No more loose stools, her fur is shiny, perfect weight and she's happy.If you can't trust your doctor who can you trust?
November 17th, 2005, 08:51 PM
My vet never gives me food advice. He knows me better than that.;)
November 19th, 2005, 09:30 PM
Have you considered adding some white rice or brown rice
to your dogs food? It often can help with soft stools.
Vet has recommended it to me for diarrhea before.
November 19th, 2005, 10:55 PM
Actually the pet food store lady mentioned this, thanks for reminding me. I haven't tried it yet but will give it a shot once she's been on her new food for a little longer (don't want to add too much chamge at once).
November 20th, 2005, 02:11 AM
What pet store are you talking about? If you ever get to go to Woofers (on Sources north of the 40), the owner there knows her stuff. She's usually there weekdays in the morning (but maybe not Fridays.. I'm not sure).
November 20th, 2005, 10:37 AM
Not Woofers. It's a little store in Verdun that just opened up, kinda like Woofers. I went to Woofers once but it's pretty far from where I live so not too convenient. Lady at this new place seems pretty knowledgable though.