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Choke Chain or not?

free
November 5th, 2005, 02:08 PM
I am looking at an obedience school where they say we must use a choke chain or use a haltie with a double leach (one on the haltie, one on his colar) to keep control of the dog. Does this make any sense or can it cause trouble....(the dog is an airedale). Thanks

Luba
November 5th, 2005, 02:23 PM
The trainers that I like use a gentle approach to training and not aggressive dominating approach. They don't use chokers they use martingales. Martingales are safer IMHO

I've known and used halties and gentle leaders on some dogs BUT in the last two years have come across some situations where dogs have incurred pinched nerves in the neck from these devices. Results = pain and loss of use of hind end. Remove the g/l or halti and in time the problem goes away.

Personally I use a harness for my dog...regardless of what I use and what her training is she is a happy dog and will always pull if there is another dog around.

I'd rather her be putting that pressure and strength into a pull from her shoulders and chest area then her neck and her head? Follow?

Dogs that pull on a choker or collar can rupture their trach and it can collapse, chokers can pinch the skin terribly I'd personally never use one myself (big debate on this issue).

You may want to find a trainer that uses martingales, this can tend to show you atleast the 'intent' behind the trainer.

Before you sign up for ANY class go observe one first and see if you like the methods being used. Is the trainer forceful or gentle?

shannonRN
November 5th, 2005, 03:44 PM
Thank you so much Luba for posting this. I did not know what these collars are called and I have been looking for one for ages. No one could understand what I meant when I would try to describe it. Moo has a very narrow head and has learned to back out of her collar when she's out on the trolley. I think this collar will be just the thing to stop that! THanks.

jesse's mommy
November 5th, 2005, 03:54 PM
I personally don't agree with chokers. I think they are inhumane and can cause serious damage. I know I wouldn't want that thing around my neck. I use a harness and it's wonderful. We haven't had any problems with Jesse at all and she has really adapted well to it. She walks like a perfect angel now which is extremely helpful to me since I have carpel tunnel in both wrists. Hopefully that helps.

Lucky Rescue
November 5th, 2005, 04:48 PM
Most people don't use choke collars correctly and expect the collar to train the dog. You then end up with dogs choking themselves to the point of tracheal damage.

I too use a Martingale collar. Same principle, but no choking as only a small part is chain and tightens only so much.

But no collar is useful without training.

This is a Martingale.

Luba
November 5th, 2005, 05:45 PM
No problem Shannon it was Debs'LR that gave me the Martingale name a LONG time ago I had no idea what they were called either! :D

The knock off brands work just as good just make sure you use the correct size.

LavenderRott
November 6th, 2005, 09:03 AM
I would look for another trainer. Sorry, but I have a hard time working with someone who thinks that there is only one way to train and only one or two tools to get the job done. Every dog is different. While a flat collar may work for one dog, a choker may be needed for another. I want a trainer that knows the tools and how to use them. Preferably all of them.

catsnatcher-CDN
November 6th, 2005, 09:11 AM
Does anyone know where I can buy the Martingale collar in MTL?

kayla
November 6th, 2005, 10:03 AM
I used to be against the idea of a choke chain but recently changed my view on it. Kayla is an absolute monster to walk. She saw THREE different trainers about it who used positive reinforement, but none could get her to stop pulling. One even told me some dogs are just "chronic pullers" and there wasn't a lot I could do... :cool:

Anyways I just started her with another trainer who gives a written gaurantee she will be trained. When I found out he wanted to use a choke chain I was hesitant but decided it was worth a try. It has worked wonders with Kayla!

The trick with choke chains, which I didn't know before, is that it is about the snap, not about "choking" the dog. And when you snap the choke chain, you always pull to the side, so it pulls on the muscles on the side of the dog's neck, NOT the trachea. Also, you don't pull and leave it tight EVER. It is a snap, very quick, and is about the sound, not the choking.

I agree with LavenderRott that trainers should be knowledgable in many different methods though.

catsnatcher-CDN- They sell martingales at Woofer's on Des Sources Blvd.

Suzan
November 6th, 2005, 11:14 AM
Different temperaments in different dogs require different techniques. Alot would depend on how much your dog wants to please you, how strong you are in comparison to the dog, etc. etc. Trainers should have many different techniques available... but in a class it would be impossible to train some dogs one way and other dogs other ways. Watch the trainer first, if you think the method they use will work... try it. I have trained many dogs with the choke collar and have never had a problem with harming the dog. ... however, as someone in another post mentioned, it has to be used properly. When the choke was useless on the dog I have now (she would pull the leash right out of my hands and even got away and left my 6'2" husband on his knees), I tried the halti which worked great with my sister's Golden. It was useless on Kaya. We finally worked with the pinch collar ( like a martingale but with metal prongs) which I thought I would never use, and the change was immediate. She is now often walked on a leather collar because she listens.
Suzan

PetFriendly
November 6th, 2005, 01:58 PM
I started with the metal slip collar and no treats route... We didn't do so well for us, but did work really well for some of the other dogs and their owners that were in the class.

I then moved on to a new trainer who used flat buckle collars and treats. That worked much better for my little stuborn puppy.

So it all depends on your personality, your dog's personality and the trainer. Shop around, attend a class or two, ask questions. You also want a trainer that teaches more than just straight obedience (as was the case with the first one I had) like house manners, kid friendly-ness, how to prevent resource guarding, etc.

StaceyB
November 6th, 2005, 10:10 PM
Thanks Petfriendly for such nice posts. You will have to come out and see the shop. I am hoping to be up and running by next week. I ended up getting the name I wanted, The Dogs Den Learning centre Ltd, for Obedience and Doggy Daycare. I am just waiting for the website to launch. It will be
(url - edited by admin - reason commercial post)
Let me know what you think. It should be there in the next couple of days.

Prin
November 6th, 2005, 10:24 PM
(be careful with the commercial posts... They don't like that here...:eek: )

Joey.E.CockersMommy
November 6th, 2005, 10:44 PM
You website sight is awesome StaceyB you have certainly given me some great advice,thank you you should get lots of business. ,:)


Doesnt Tenderfoot have her sight posted on here? Whats the difference ? :)

StaceyB
November 6th, 2005, 10:54 PM
Thanks I didn't even know it was up yet. This is my first site so I would love to know what you think I could do to improve it.

PetFriendly
November 7th, 2005, 05:09 PM
Stacey

You should think/ask about putting a signature block on your posts... The way Tenderfoot does...

Charley still looks around for you if I say your name, you made quite an impression on him, thanks!

MIA
November 7th, 2005, 06:31 PM
Different temperaments in different dogs require different techniques. Suzan

Too true.. For anyone looking for a trainer I personally would choose one that has studied ALL the different training techniques out there. If there is a trainer that says thier method works on all dogs, they are wrong, there are adjustments in all training techniques for different dogs. Also you want a trainer that wants to know about your dog, what motivates it, what makes it want to do things for you. As well a trainer that watches your animal and how you interact with them. I find many don't even look at the dog!

I have three dogs in my house that I can honestly say were all trained differently, one on a martingale, one on a flat buckle and one on a choke and with different styles (or a variation of the techniques I have learned over the years).
:thumbs up