November 2nd, 2005, 02:33 PM
A friend of mine just got a new English Springer Spaniel puppy. Both her breeder and her vet recomended Iams puppy food. I told her that I didn't it was a very good quality, actually I said that it was "crap". She e-mailed the vet about it asking her again and this was her response:
As for the Iams. It is a good food. It was actually sold only at vets until recently. What you want to look at is a higher protein and fat content than adult dog foods (puppies are growing). I can't remember the percentages, but Iams would have it pretty close. Eukanuba is also a good food with the same background. You can buy your food from the vet, but Iams is much the same and at a lower price. All these foods will have byproduct in them. It is cooked at a high temp to kill disease. The only thing better is raw meat, but it is expensive and you have to give her a pattie of raw meat every day. Gross. Once she is about 8-10 months, switch her to Iams/Eukanuba/Pedigree adult food. Then it is a battle to keep the weight down. If she gets overweight she will have way more health problems. If you think you should, put her on a weight managment diet at that point. There are also specialty foods for dogs with health problems so you might have to look into that if something is wrong there.
The bull balls are big balls of bone, right? We call them tartar busters. They are great and they keep them occupied. Sometimes dogs can break their teeth off with bones/raw hide, but it isn't likely with the balls. Also, if you switch to another bone, make sure it doesn't break off into sharp pieces that she can swallow/cut herself with.
What is your opinion on this?
November 2nd, 2005, 03:07 PM
Iams is crap, and as the vet knows about nutrition is zip. Most vets only have to do an hour course a year based on nutrition. I took a nutrition course many years ago for a job I was doing. My vet actually asked my advice for nutrition on a client. So....... I would tell her to do alot more research on her own. Look vets sell medical, and science diet foods. They are crap too. Unless needed for the medical reasons
November 2nd, 2005, 03:08 PM
another thing, if that vet added pedigree with the iams or eukanuba foods, goes to show you...Make your own descision on that one
November 2nd, 2005, 04:47 PM
Iams and Eukanuba are crap and pedigree is even worse. The vets get kick backs from the manufacturers, this is why they are such big fans of it. Yes most vets do not take in depth courses in nutrition, not a high priority course. If you read the ingredients that should tell you it is not made with high quality ingredients in fact it is a bag of filler and expensive filler at that. If you need to convince her do some internet searches for the ingredient lists and compare them. Yes we all want to believe everything our vets tell us but you really have to do your own research and opinions of people using different foods.
November 2nd, 2005, 11:02 PM
Just this quote makes me cringe:
I can't remember the percentages, but Iams would have it pretty close Can't remember? Can you remember drug interactions? Can you remember which vaccine you gave my dog 5 minutes ago? It's not like these values change very often. Seriously.
Any vet who says byproducts are ok because the diseases are killed in the cooking is not a vet for me.
November 3rd, 2005, 07:54 AM
You can tell your friend that it was not just sold by vets, actually it was and still is available in most pet stores and about 4 yrs ago it was sold at grocery stores. They added more preservatives to the food so that it was able to last longer on the grocery shelves.
If your friends vet is making up stories about nutrition I would question their other skills regarding the dogs health and treatment.
November 3rd, 2005, 08:40 AM
I think that she might be in vet school, but still. I would have thought that they would be trained on nutrition.
November 3rd, 2005, 09:43 AM
Vets get limited training on nutrition. Think about it this way. You go to your general practitioner for your regular checkups and your booster shots whenever you need them or when you are feeling under the weather. If your doctor feels that you need to have your diet changed for whatever reason you are referred to a nutrionist or dietition. If you need some other more indepth tests or exams, you are sent to a specialist in that field. Same with vets. Unless they go back to school after achieving the DVM degree, they are not specialists in other fields such as pet nutrition.
November 3rd, 2005, 10:13 AM
Iams and Eukanuba are crap and pedigree is even worse. The vets get kick backs from the manufacturers, this is why they are such big fans of it.
how true. my vet (whom I think is great medically, but do not rely on for any nutritional info) actually gives out "puppy packs" for every new pup that comes to the practice - we got one for Tucker and inside were samples and coupons for... Pedigree, Iams, and Eukanuba. needless to say, the coupons were never used, and I put the samples out for the chipmunks.
November 3rd, 2005, 11:55 AM
Well, the veterinary nutrition thing is definitely not a new topic of debate around here. Thought I would post this link if anyone is interested. http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=13772&highlight=vet+nutrition+food
I don't know how much education vets really get on the topic of nutrition. I just know that I consider my vet to be only one source of info on the topic.
I tried to get on the iams site so I could look at their ingredient list, but the site is currently under construction so I personally don't feel like I can comment on what goes into the Iams puppy food. But what I know many people really detest about Iams is this (http://www.iamscruelty.com/). What I really hate is that site uses anna nicole smith as a spokesmodel. If ever there was a more vapid waste of oxygen, I don't know who that might be :clown:
Grover, was that first post the vet's reply, or your friend's summary of what the vet said? I guess that's irrelevant because it's all hearsay either way, but I'm curious. Anyhow, I would argue that the food isn't really about he percentages. I mean, roughly it is, but the source of those percentages is critical. I mean, corn contributes to the protein content of the food, and contributes quite heavily to it in many poor quality foods, but that isn't a very good source of protein for a dog.
November 3rd, 2005, 01:02 PM
Iams used to be a good food, but that was about 10 years ago. They were bought out by Proctor & Gamble? Or Johnson & Johnson? Now the food isn't about quality. It's about money. Kind of funny that people are still spending X amount of dollars on this crap.
November 3rd, 2005, 02:29 PM
P&G own Iams now.
It's not just the PETA stuff either. Besides the food being loaded with corn and by-products, they actually sponsor other very, very painful tests on animals.
And I agree about vets not knowing much about nutrition in general. Apparently, they have to take one class, which is not much when you consider that for my Biology degree I will have taken at least 4 on evolution alone. You know what I mean?
November 3rd, 2005, 03:14 PM
Is it okay to quote yourself? :p
I just know that I consider my vet to be only one source of info on the topic.
Just wanted to add, Prin is the other! :crazy:
November 3rd, 2005, 03:17 PM
:o I think this dog food forum is the best thing to happen to doggy nutrition yet because we take all the little tidbits and links we know and group them all together to make a good knowledge base. :)
November 3rd, 2005, 07:57 PM
Grover, was that first post the vet's reply, or your friend's summary of what the vet said?
It was the actual from the vet. My friend forwarded it to me.