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What will you do if Qc separates?

Prin
November 1st, 2005, 05:27 PM
With Gomery's report out, the youth of Qc becoming more and more separatist and the horrible term of the Qc Liberals, separation is becoming more and more real...

What will you do if it happens? I know quite a few people who will be leaving before the next provincial election because they're afraid their property values (in English neighborhoods) will drop significantly.

There are parts of life in Qc that I really love and am proud of, but there is also a lot of discrimination against English people, and I'm afraid it will get much worse if Qc separates. Maybe it's because I live in mostly French areas (namely Ahuntsic (67000 French to 2000 English) and now in Laval...) so I see it more, but I've heard offensive anti-English sentiment on the radio too. That's the stuff that makes me feel unwelcome in my own province and I wonder how the minority English, especially those outside Montreal, will be treated.

I hope this does not start a really harsh political argument, but I wanted to bring it up because I think it's a very current issue, and those of you who have been around for the 2 referendums might feel differently than me (I've only been through one so far).

badger
November 1st, 2005, 06:23 PM
I kind of agree with you about that undercurrent, Prin, although I'd like to deny it, and it always knocks me for a loop, as if I'd just been personally accused of owning slaves. Sometimes it also makes me laugh, which is a bit creepy.

On one level it might be an interesting time to stick around after a successful yes vote. They've got alot of stuff to work out and it could be fun. I doubt if things would get tougher for anglos, although I guess if we lost enough services (such as in hospitals), there would be serious incentive to leave.

However, I am in complete denial about the possibility. I just don't want to think about it.

Puppyluv
November 1st, 2005, 09:11 PM
I have no idea what I'll do. I'm in the midst of becoming a QC resident, so far the Ministry of Health and Elections Canada consider me to be a QC res, but the Ministry of Education, and Revenue Canada consider me an AB resident. I still don't know how long it will take to be a full resident, but if a vote were to happen while I was still in the cracks, I have a feeling I'd have some major issues to deal with.
I wish I could just not think about it, but it's such a looming possibility now... :(

Prin
November 2nd, 2005, 12:58 AM
Must be weird for "Canadians" that have heard about it for so long to come here and be in the thick of it, eh?

Soon when people say "I'm going to Canada" when they go to Ontario, it could be true (it was a joke that started after the last referendum...).

CyberKitten
November 2nd, 2005, 04:57 AM
Gheez and here I always thought Ontario residents just assumed they WERE Canada, lol Never mind the Maritimes or the west!

I somehow doubt Qyebec will leave - but maybe I am overly optomistic. The last referndum was a little close for comfort - there but a few votes.
However, the Clarity Bill may make les Independistes word the question properly at least. And if they DO leave, they have to leave with what they came into confederation with and that does not include northern Quebec - which is most of the province geographically or the majority of the island of Montreal - which includes the most populated part of the provinces. And if they are allowed to negotiate "soveregnty" (It's curious how that changed from seperation to sovergnty association to sovergnty), they also have to allow areas with large English speaking populations like the Townships to also "leave". Has anyione here read Moticai Richler's book or Diane FRancis' book on Quebec? Very interesting, both of them.

Then there is the issue of First Nations who could well lay claim to Montreal.

Seriously, I have thought about this issue alot - even was one of those tousands of ppl who went on a bus (with a then Tory Opposition Leader from NB) for that unity rally, the one where Jean Charest gace the speech of his life with his passport. He needs to get that style back - it seems to have left him lately! That day I ran over to a convenience store to get some coca cola and the clerk whispered to me and asked me if I was one of the ppl on the bus and I said yes, at the same time looking around to see why she was whispering (I mean ,were the L'Office de la Langue Francaus around or what! - I know they are for signs etc but it a govt agency (silly one) that comes to mind - your tax dollars at work, harassing small business owners who happen to be English and have the English lettering way too large, ie in equal size to the French!!! :mad: ). I wondered if maybe she was une independiste who would blast me but she thanked me. It was a great trip abd I do think we made a small difference - given the margin of victory!!

And I suspect the seperatists would have had to make up a lot more time because it was such a severe blow (helped by M. Parizeau's ill considered (or had he been nipping too much vin as the rumour mill suggested?). But along came M. Chretien and his cronies and Chuck Guite - who Justice Gomery termed a "lovable rogue!!") and they are right back to pre referndum numbers and higher in the polls. Jean Chretien has indeed left the country a legacy !!! Ughhhhhhh!!

My sister moved TO Quebec to teach there and she will never move - unless they move a certain Law School, lol (or she accepts some judicial appointment).

And my dad actually attended elementary school with Chuck Guite and I asked him if he was a "lovable rogue" back then and he replied, "No, he was an unlovable rogue."

I'd like to know where the money went!~ Even the forensic auditors who tracked down the Enron stolen cash have been unable to account for it. That's pretty incredible! And the current PM WAS the Finance Minister at the time this was all happening so either he was incompetent or else he knew what was happening and looked the other way - tho given his actions in office, I am tempted to think the former. Still, they say ignorance is no excuse. If I am responsible for the money of an organization and it was stolen by an employee and I failed to note it, I would be held responsible.

Anyway, that's my short (for me, lol) rant on this subject - there is so much more to say but I won't bore you any longer!!

BMDLuver
November 2nd, 2005, 06:32 AM
Hmmmm.... Due to my age ;) , I have lived through the "separation scare" multiple times. I have seen bombings, houses painted blue and anglophone kids being beaten in the schoolyard by the francophones and vice versa. I don't follow politics very closely for a reason, it is just too darn depressing. 90% of my father's family ran to Alberta during my late teens. Do I think we will actually ever separate? Not bloody likely. Will the vote go through to separate, most likely. Saying you want it to happen and making it happen financially are two very different things. Either way, the big paying job is here, so here is where we remain until there is no job. We've ridden it out mutlitple times it's basically SSDD in my books.

Schwinn
November 2nd, 2005, 11:24 AM
I can hardly wait for them to separate. It'll make the drive to the Maritimes shorter! :D

Will they separate? I don't know. Personally, I don't want to see a separation, but I'm growing increasingly tired of seeing the federal government treat them as a special entity. I'm of the "these are the rules of the country, if you don't like it, leave" mind set. I remember being 13 and asking a police officer for help in Montreal and being told, "J'nes comprende" (or however you spell "I don't understand" in french). Funny, my understanding was that French police have to be bi-lingual. Then there's my wife, the bank manager who called a Quebec bank, spoke in French the entire time, then was told, "J'nes parlez vous englais!!" and was hung up on. And now that they don't have mountain biking at Mt Tremblant, I have less of an urge to go back.

I remember after the last referendum it was said that a lot of people voted yes only because they wanted change, not because they actually wanted to leave. Also, a lot of them are under the impression that they will still have Canadian currency, and want to have all the advantages of being Canadian (army, social security, etc.). I don't think that will happen, and I think if that is made clear, a separation won't happen either. If the government used some tough love and got that across, instead of treating Quebec like the spoiled child who will through a tantrum and stand at the door yelling, "I'm leaving! I'm going now! I mean it this time!! I'm not coming back!" until they get thier way, I think the separtist movement would lose a lot of steam.

CyberKitten
November 2nd, 2005, 02:17 PM
Actually in Quebec or Mtl (depends on whether it was a Surete officer - provincial) or someone from Mtl - a police officer is not required to speak English. French is the official language. It prob hurts them with tourism but they do not care I guess.

I have come to the conclusion there are various reasons ppl vote yes or "oui". Younger francophones who are activists do not really think about the consequences (sort of like the FLQ who did not think ahead after their activities) (tho there are many young Francophone Quebecois et Quebecosises who do actually want to be bilingual), older people committed to the cause no matter the consequences - the true believers, people who are angry at the govt for whatever reason and mix up the federal and prov govts (so many ppl do not understand what each level is responsible for) and those who think a strong Yes vote will get them more from the feds - and so far that seems to be working.

I do think the largest growing group in Quebec - the immigrants, even those who come from countries of the Francophonie - who want to learn English - may help. After all, Quebec has the lowest birth rate of any province and needs immigrants (mind you, we all do!) Many immigrants vote against seperation - some having left prolitical strife at home. Then again, older ppl who also tend to vote No are declining so... I don't know, sighhhhhhhh!!

To be honest tho, there are some days I feel like Schwinn. If they want to go, just go!! We are all growing tired of the whining! I doubt most have considered the ramifications - after all, a survey a few yrs ago showed many who wanted to seperate did not want to lose their Cdn passport. And even some members of the Bloc - who do not mind taking federal tax money for a salary but are committed to breaking up the country - said they'd be willing to look at keeping a Cdn passport. Well, you can't have it both ways!!

Anyway------

Luvmypit
November 2nd, 2005, 02:18 PM
I was watching a documentary by the passionate eye on the english speaking in Montreal. Basically saying Montreal was built by the english speaking and some history behind. Then they asked the students at Concordia I think it was if they will stay in Montreal particularly Quebec and they all seemed very peed off and said no way. All of the young people in and out of the university said there main reason was the treatment of the English speaking. So I think Quebec will have a serious wake up call if they do seperate. Basically the doc boiled down to saying that the majority of young people will not stay and will move on to other provinces. And these are the brightest of the bright coming out of university.

I think it really has to do with the older francophone and I am also sick of every PM speach hearing him talk to Canadians and then to Quebecers. Like we are totally different and they need an extra apoligy or explanation. We are all one country and I find this special treatment ridiculous. I understand and I believe preserving the french language is wonderful but to what extent? I also hate hearing that Ontarians think we are the only canadians. I have never felt that way nor do I know anyone who feels this way.

doggy lover
November 2nd, 2005, 04:22 PM
I don't think it will ever happen, they relie on the rest of Canada for so much. Quebec is given many grants by the Canadian gov. for many things. So what would they do with out us? I guess my in-laws would live in a different country if it happened :D only joking. I remember reading something about the last one they had and people thought that they would actully seperate off of the rest of the country like the land would split in half or something. lol

Puppyluv
November 2nd, 2005, 05:44 PM
I remember reading something about the last one they had and people thought that they would actully seperate off of the rest of the country like the land would split in half or something. lol

That (while although amusing) points out the problem, a lot of people who would vote yes, don't think about these things, they don't think about their dependence on the other provinces, they aren't overly informed.

I still stick to the belief that the only province that could successfully separate is Alberta. ;)

free
November 2nd, 2005, 06:36 PM
we left in 1982 because at that time there was no way to advance as an anglo. i was told if i changed my name to a french name no job would be difficult to get. we never returned to live for our kids sake.they are both bilingual because i saw the importance of it in a global society.
my dads girlfriend, who has lived in anglo areas for over 20 year, listens to only french radio and tv and when ever you discuss qc she will tell you the garbage that qc gives more to canada then they get. last ref she believed from what the pq was dishing that qc would be independent in name only that they would still have all the same benefits from canada. unless things change if the ref gets through i will finish my basement for my sis, brotherinlaw and dog to live

Prin
November 2nd, 2005, 09:47 PM
See what you guys are all forgetting is there is a new demographic for separatism here. It's not just the old people anymore (which was the reason Bouchard quit- he didn't see a future with all the fogies dying off). Now it's the young and the immigrants. Don't forget that immigrants' kids are forced into French schools.

They'll learn from the same text books that I did in my French immersion classes- the ones that say that Qc has the most people and gets the least amount of federal money- both completely false statements. They have the real value under the graph, but the "stack of coins" representing the money is smaller than any other province. What 13 year old is going to look beyond the pics?

And no, the cops don't speak a lot of English, but to be fair, when French people head to the states (namely Vermont and New York) they are given a harder time. If you don't speak English when you're crossing into the states, instant "random" car search.

As for banks, Schwinn, I don't know which one you were calling, but in my experience, banks are one of the only places in Qc where you are guaranteed a bilingual person (banks and Dagwood's Sandwich places...).

Oh, don't expect to ever find an English city bus driver... Dream on.

In the rest of Canada, Anglo Qcers are easily employed- we're totally bilingual. In Qc, jobs are few and far between because we don't speak enough French. It's pretty wacky.

(Hey Schwinn, you should try to be a cop here- they are taking everybody but white French males right now, so you'd have a slight edge... ;) )


BMD- "anglophone kids being beaten in the schoolyard by the francophones and vice versa." I don't know what era you're talking about, but growing up in the Laurentians, it was pretty much an all out war that even involved kids as young as 8 stealing stuff from the opposite language kids' homes and a hell of a lot of stitches and hospital visits..

And the English kids who went to French school and the French kids who went to English school? There was one guy who came to our school and he suffered- the French people we'd meet on the bus would call him a traiter and he'd have to sit at the back of the bus like the rest of the anglos... Sigh. Childhood memories.

Schwinn
November 3rd, 2005, 01:47 PM
As for banks, Schwinn, I don't know which one you were calling, but in my experience, banks are one of the only places in Qc where you are guaranteed a bilingual person (banks and Dagwood's Sandwich places...).



This was quite a while ago, but it was some small bank in the middle of a francophone area. It was the fact that Cheryl wasn't speaking English, but her French was rusty enough that it was obvious she wasn't french that they hung up on her. These are the stories that I was involved with, but there are tonnes more I have second hand. It turned me off enough that I have no urge to go back, unless I get another good deal at Tremblant, in which case it will most likely be the same trip as last time. Straight there and straight back without stopping once we cross into the province.

I even had a francophone chew me out for not speaking french when I was at a branch in southern Ontario. Anyone know how to say "bite me!" in french?

Prin
November 3rd, 2005, 01:59 PM
I don't know bite me, but I know "mange la me*de," which is eat something that doggies make... (* = r).

doggy lover
November 3rd, 2005, 02:21 PM
Prin you have described what my husband has said about growing up in Eastern Quebec, the french were given better things in school and had more chances. The town he is from was mostly english speaking so he never lernt french, his neice did and she moved up here and has never had a problem getting a job since she speaks both. As for the bad words even I know them. LOL

CyberKitten
November 3rd, 2005, 05:12 PM
Hmmm, not sure where I should begin or even if I should, lol I agree with some of what Prin has said but not all. I think ppl who grow up in northern New Brunswick are guarenteed all those bilingual jobs, lol We HAVE to be bilingual and if you are an Irish Catholic, you are in the middle - you understand the French because they, like you, are Catholic and thus you attend the same Church and often (like my family - the same French schools - tho I did grade seven on at a private Catholic school in Hfx) and the English Protestants also see the Irish Catholics as somewhere beyond the pale (having brought the Orange Lodge and prejudices with them - tho that is true too of the Irish Catholics). My mom can recall theKu Klux Klan burning a cross on her property when he dad supported the notion of starting a school that was Catholic and French - horror of horrors!! Many of my French friends in high school - the ones who attended French schools - had to still use English textbooks and good luck finding anything at all about the French, much less the Irish in those!!! (I have relatives in Quebec who have Irish names but speak no English but there is a whole interesting history to that. Children orphaned from the Coffin ships (called because ppl died on the way over from Ireland) that landed at Grosse Isle (near Quebec City)were taken in by French families but allowed to keep their English names. This is part of my mom's history tho she ended up marrying a guy born in Ireland - tho educated also in French in Canada.

Thus, I understand some of the anger behind the demands by Francophones but I really fail to see why trying to be as bad as the English were (I do not consider myself English) will solve anything - sort of the old two wrong do not make a right argument.

That said, I think in some ways French Immersion is a failure. I meet many graduates of French Immersion and their French is actually not all that good - a lot of Anglicisms in their language. I do not personally care about that but do think if "I" notice it, you can bet the ppl who do care about it and hire bilingual ppl, actually DO notice it even more so. Plus, many of them end up leaving the region and working in areas where it hardly matters if you are bilingual - which covers a large part of the country (and the US) outside of govt jobs. Even Nova Scotia is less concerned about bilingualism than New Brunswick and there is a significant Acadian population.

I also think Francophones outside Quebec worry more about the possible loss of Quebec than any other group. There would be very little need to have a biligual govt services if the country looses such a large % of French citizens. The Anglophone population in northern NB is dying out - due to outmigration and other factors (obviously, a well educated bilingual Anglophone is more mobile - no matter what anyone says). We can move anywhere and work in either language.

I have never had any problems in Quebec - even when I spoke English (and there are times if a clerk or service person has a bad attitide that I am tempted to not admit to any knowledge of French (I cannot do it at home where ppl know me, lol - or at least being in the unlucky situation of having more ppl know who I am than I know who they are, sigh!). Most people have been very helpful. I do not expect goct service workers to speak English - it's not a requirement of their job. I do think if I lived in a Quebec municipality tho, I'd want people to be able to serve me in my own language. But admittedly even in NB or NS, when I am asked what language I would like to receive materials in, I say it doesn't matter because it really does not. Either language is fine. I also think if someone in Quebec is serving a tourist who does not speak French however, they should at least be polite and have at least one person in tourist friendly areas to be able to communicate to them. While it is certainly true that one would not anticipate to be served in French in the US ( I would not use Vermont as an example because a state whose capital is named Montpelier and has a sizable Fracophone population of its own - as does Maine! - prob can indeed find someone who speaks French if they really tried. And the Americans do seem better at consumer relations than we are - in general - and they do try to help.) But it is less stressed and Francophones do know this. Now, Florida is another matter again. If you live in Hollywood, Fla - where there is a French TV and newspaper - and even ppl demanding French service in the local hospital - you might wonder if you are in an English community in the Gaspe, save for the weather and the beaches, lol

I would not expect someone to serve me in English in Rimouski or Chicoutimi. But in Montreal - esp the west island, I'd be unhappy to discover a govt person speaks only French. That would be more of a slap to the ppl that live there than tourists tho. As for banks, I would hope they would have someone to serve one in a call center in almost any language these days. And as for Pearson Airport, I have given up. I can rarely find anyone to help me in either official language, lol

Prin
November 3rd, 2005, 07:27 PM
That's the thing, CK, the government people are in Shawinigan not in the West Island.

And I would love to have the option to pick my language. A lot of the time, you don't get to choose. Legally, people can distribute stuff only in French and if you want it in English you have to ask, and a lot of the time they're fresh out of English copies...

I think French immersion programs are ok here. I took the French high school leaving exam, which is corrected by the government to get my bilingual diploma. Maybe the standards are higher here because of the provincial exams, but I don't doubt that my French is better than the students who graduated with the regular English diploma. The only thing I have to worry about now is that if I did too much French, my kids might be forced to go to French school.. :(

gdamadg
November 3rd, 2005, 07:43 PM
OK, normally I avoid political topics like this. Mostly 'cause with my job, we are supposed to stay politically impartial with public topics like this.

But just a little input. Yes the Qc youth are starting to sprout the seperatist beliefs. But and I mean a really big BUT, they need to remember that the majority of those politicians involved with the sponsership scandall are from Quebec. Whether or not they are in a party like the Liberals or not, they are Quebecers too. Pilphering taxpayers money, Canadian taxpayers money, and that includes more than just Quebecers.

Ignorance of the people is the way of Empire builders. It is easier to gain the support of the uneducated or misinformed. Feed them what they want to hear and they will follow.

I appologize if I said anything that to upset any of you.

Prin
November 3rd, 2005, 07:45 PM
Very, very good point about the sponsorship scandal. Never thought about it that way, but it's true.:)

gdamadg
November 3rd, 2005, 07:50 PM
Never thought about it that way, but it's true.

That's just it, and the ones that are pushing the seperatist movement rely on thinking like that. As soon as someone see's the Liberal party name, they associate it with the Canadian Government. Not with who those politicians actually are. I don't trust any politician, from any party and it would not suprise me if they looked deep enough, all that money was funnelled into the seperatist movement. Everything smells a little fishy to me. But I am just like that. ;)

Prin
November 3rd, 2005, 07:55 PM
I don't associate parties with anything.. I think that each person is responsible, especially when the person is doing coke on the job and getting away with it...

gdamadg
November 3rd, 2005, 08:01 PM
And I am grateful that there are sensible people out there like you. Common sense is a natural gift, not needed to learned.

As for the coke comment, umm that was out of left field.

Prin
November 3rd, 2005, 08:28 PM
Do you know what I'm referring to? The guy who is winning for the leadership of the Parti Quebecois admitted doing coke on the job on several occasions and it actually boosted his ratings?

gdamadg
November 3rd, 2005, 09:02 PM
Woah, no I didn't know what you were refering to. That is nuts. I normally don't pay attention to politics. Unless it affects my job.

Prin
November 3rd, 2005, 09:09 PM
Two articles on it:
http://www.canada.com/montreal/montrealgazette/specials/pqleadership/story.html?id=a9287927-ce62-4f8c-8bd2-8e6808658e9b
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/09/20/boisclair_druguse_20050920.html

CyberKitten
November 3rd, 2005, 09:49 PM
I know of the guy you are referring to Prin - Andre Boisclair - he is kinda cute and I have to wonder if that helps. It shouldn't but ppl have the most ridiculous reasons for voting - or so I have learned, lol I rather thought Pauline Marois would do well but she is now seen as the old establishment.

I seriously doubt any of the money from the scandal made it to the seperatists tho I do think some of the ppl involved would sell their soul to the devil. It all reminds of that old axiom about politics in Canada. In BC, it's a cause, in the Prairies a religion, in Ontario a business, in the Maritimes a disease and in Quebec, it's a crime. I do believe there have been good politicians from Quebec - D'Arcy McGee was one of this country's most ardent early promoters (perhaps he saw so much division in his early Ireland- his funeral in Mtl was one of the largest (Even now) in Cdn history and of course heis life and death are intriguing if only because he was the only politican in Canada ever assasinated. Eric Kierans I think had good ideas and was someone who stood behind what he advocated. Therese Casgrain was also a good person. Her autobiography is one of the first by a woman politician I ever read - I don;t think it is translated in English but if it is, check it out. I liked Jean Charest, till he became a Liberal which is a move I understand but I would not have done it. The Montreal Citizens' Movement - in its early days - had some interesting characters as well. Now, it's all mundane and part of the same ole same ole.

That said, the province seems to have more of its share of crooks. However, I don't believe there are more dishonest Quebec politicians. There is a certain way of doing business in Quebec that is just applied to politics. I have seen and experienced politics close up and there are people who do the things that were done in the Adscam in every party and in every province. (Prob fewer in the NDP but even there, nepotism exists. Their refusal to play some of the usual games may be why they get nowhere in Quebec, esp when the social policies of the PQ are so similar to the NDP) But the PQ will be forever doomed by the competing forces of the right wing nationalists like Pariseau and the left wing ideologue nationalists like Boisclair. I think in Ontario, the same thing happens but the politicians are slicker and can hide it better. Here in the Maritimes, our politicians not be as blatant as their counterparts in Quebec but it's a close call sometimes, lol

In Quebec, because the whole national unity issue has been exploited so dare I say liberally by the Liberals, :p , most the behind closed door deals that include patronage and pay per contract (kickback schemes if you like) are that much more evident and blatant. I honestly do not believe that this happened because these politicians and bureaucrats were from Quebec. It goes back to David Dingwall who was Minister of Public Works and he was from Cape Breton - and is actually still liked by many there because he understood that all politics is local and created jobs for people in his riding - and of course for himself. But this money and this program - given the way it was set up - was almost a scam waiting to happen. There is also the disgrace of the Gun registration program - another few billion handled horribly. And just think of all the ppl appointed to the Senate. Sure, there are some good ppl there but most owe their well paying and perk laden positions to whatever govt appointed them and they rep every province, not just Quebec. So, I really do not think this is answered simply by suggesting all the politicians involved were from Quebec. I just think the amount of money involved, its association with national unity and the war in the Liberal party makes it seem as tho Quebec politics is more worse. The fact is that if you study political process financing legislation - and I have as a member of the one of the first commissions to establish public financing of the electoral process (Before, companies or individuals simply bought votes with briefcases of cash!! Sad but true, sigh!) - Quebec's legislation is the tightest in the country, provincially. The federal legislation is not as stringent as some of the provincial statutes.

It does not upset me that ppl think this. It just makes me a little chagrined that people make assumptions without reading more or studying it.

I do get upset about the fact that this amount of money was spent to allegedly "save" the country and it has succeeded in achieving the exact opposite. It was a poor idea to begin with - you do not convince ppl (esp now in the internet age) with the kind of PR programs they paid for - and now so many ppl in Quebec are angry at the federal govt for using tax payers' money to in the end make Quebec look bad - and I know some Quebecois who think this. For them there is no alternative but to vote for the Bloc. Chretien especially nearly screwed up the last referendum campaign in Quebec and then he overdid it with this - and now the same ppl he failed to woo the last time around, are not all happy.

Jacques Parizeau may not have been so off the mark when he blamed the ethniques and the money for losing a close vote. And it may well be the ethnic vote - and immigration amazingly - that might keep Canada together yet.

On a final note, I think les Quebecois live and let live to some extent - which is why in many ways, the province is more progressive than some others. Not all but some. It always interests me that Quebec was prob (with the ultramontists) the most patriarchial and least progressive province - women obtaining the right to vote only in 1940 (Recall Duplessis - sort of Canada's Huey Long, only less colourful, lol)- but it moved up quickly with La Revolution Tranquille. This is why there is little concern about Boisclair's admission of the use of cocaine. If he had been caught using it while in power, that may have been yet another issue - and he did indeed use it as a cabinet Minister, he just did not get caught. At the same time, none of us is perfect. A Tory Nova Scotia candidate in NS's 2nd last prov election was accused of drug use - and ahe admitted she had problems in her past but overcame them to become the managing editor of the province's largest daily newspaper. She won her seat and becaame a cabinet Minister. I think everyone deserves a second chance so I would not hold his drug use against him. He has said he realizes it was wrong and he was young and foolish and were I a Quebecois, I would take him at his word. I do not have to agree with his policies though but I would not vote or not vote for someone based on past indisgressions or what his sexual preferences are. Now if he were to blow (Gawd, that may be a poor choice of words via a vis coacaine , lol) that second chance and be high on cocaine while making a crucial decision, that is another matter again.

Anyway --- sorry to have gone on at such length!!!

This IS a forum about animals, right? lol

CyberKitten
November 3rd, 2005, 09:52 PM
OMG - just lost this huge post thx to spellchecking - about Boisclair, how all crooks in politics are not from Quebec - yada yada (Gawd, how did I do that?) You guys will prob jump for joy since you don't have to read it - a sign from God I write too long? lol

CyberKitten
November 3rd, 2005, 09:54 PM
And now there it is, weird!! Sorry again about the length.

I promise to write shorter posts
I promise to write shorter posts
I promise to write shorter posts

(I guess writng lines would not work in today's classroom, lol) It was stuoid even in my day, heheh

CyberKitten
November 3rd, 2005, 10:09 PM
Here is an article about Boisclair here:

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualites/article/article_complet.php?path=/actualites/article/03/1,63,0,112005,1211028.php&skip_inter=1

Bearsmom
November 6th, 2005, 05:09 PM
Gheez and here I always thought Ontario residents just assumed they WERE Canada, lol Never mind the Maritimes or the west!
!


That's a pretty rude statement.

Prin
November 6th, 2005, 05:15 PM
Where did that quote come from? I can't find it...

Prin
November 6th, 2005, 05:17 PM
Nevermind I found it... Post 5.

I think it's the National Post that helps lead the "rest" of us to that conclusion. It's supposed to be a "national" paper but it's mainly about Toronto...

K9Friend
November 6th, 2005, 05:22 PM
Nevermind I found it... Post 5.

I think it's the National Post that helps lead the "rest" of us to that conclusion. It's supposed to be a "national" paper but it's mainly about Toronto...

Soooooo TRUE! :thumbs up

CyberKitten
November 6th, 2005, 05:35 PM
It is not meant to be rude and I am sorry if it came across as such. It is prob because so many Ontario ppl love to tell me - when they discover I am from the Maritimes - how they are keeping me. Excuse me but I pay mega taxes too!! (and not all Maritimers are on welfare or on pogey). It is an unfortunate stereotype and unfortunately, there are so many Ontario ppl who choose to perpetuate it,. I once went to buy rather expensive shoes at the Bay in Toronto and the clerk asked when - after I told him where I was form - how I could afford them. I almost cried but I did leave - and told him I did not appreciate his comment.

The sentiment that Ontario runs the country is pretty prevelant here. And that only issues important to Ontario are worthy of merit on the news. I suppose in the sense that it is such a large province this is true but oh my gosh, I dislike being told how lowly I am for being a mere Maritimer. It hurts alot and no one ever notices or cares and I make one statement that was meant as a joke (because I HAVE met some nice Ontario ppl on this site and assumed they laughed at themselves that way too - the way Maritimers laugh at ourselves - we do not take ourselves too seriously. It is not a great idea in this country from what I see, lol)

However, please accept my apology. I did not mean it to be rude - I am not a rude person (hate rude ppl actually) and I am not keen on using that word but rude is an adjective I never aim to be. Those who know me know I am not at all rude. No one who has been thru my life could ever be rude. (Not to whine, it is just reality). And Maritimers tend to laugh at our own foibles so we think others do the same thing. I mean, don;t you watch This Hour has 22 Minutes or Air Farce, lol

doggy lover
November 7th, 2005, 02:46 PM
Gee I know tonns of Maritimers that live in Ontario, I'm sure they don't feel this way, and I can't say that I ever have either.

Rick C
November 7th, 2005, 02:55 PM
It is not meant to be rude and I am sorry if it came across as such. It is prob because so many Ontario ppl love to tell me - when they discover I am from the Maritimes - how they are keeping me. Excuse me but I pay mega taxes too!! (and not all Maritimers are on welfare or on pogey). It is an unfortunate stereotype and unfortunately, there are so many Ontario ppl who choose to perpetuate it,. I once went to buy rather expensive shoes at the Bay in Toronto and the clerk asked when - after I told him where I was form - how I could afford them. I almost cried but I did leave - and told him I did not appreciate his comment.

The sentiment that Ontario runs the country is pretty prevelant here. And that only issues important to Ontario are worthy of merit on the news. I suppose in the sense that it is such a large province this is true but oh my gosh, I dislike being told how lowly I am for being a mere Maritimer. It hurts alot and no one ever notices or cares and I make one statement that was meant as a joke (because I HAVE met some nice Ontario ppl on this site and assumed they laughed at themselves that way too - the way Maritimers laugh at ourselves - we do not take ourselves too seriously. It is not a great idea in this country from what I see, lol)

However, please accept my apology. I did not mean it to be rude - I am not a rude person (hate rude ppl actually) and I am not keen on using that word but rude is an adjective I never aim to be. Those who know me know I am not at all rude. No one who has been thru my life could ever be rude. (Not to whine, it is just reality). And Maritimers tend to laugh at our own foibles so we think others do the same thing. I mean, don;t you watch This Hour has 22 Minutes or Air Farce, lol

If it wasn't for all you Maritimers leaving the east coast and flooding the Alberta oilfields, we'd never get anything done out here!!! We're kind of wondering if anyone is left out there.

You sure do like to fight in bars though. :sorry:

Rick C
www.goldentales.ca

CyberKitten
November 7th, 2005, 03:09 PM
Oh yeah, I fight so well in bars, rofl!! I can just picture it, One punch and I'd be gone, lol And yeah, there are a few of us left, living in our tar paper shacks and drawing pogey. :D Every Maritimer I know and have ever met shares my view (we are usuallt too polite to say how we feel though - only when we get picked on, we do stand up for ourselves. There is one fellow, a native NBer my parents befriended in Fla even who is ALWAYS razzing my mom about how he is keeping her since he pays so many taxes in Ontario. At first, my mom thought that like those comedy shows, he was just kidding but it turned out he really believed what he was saying which was kind of sad. She invited him to visit and he truly wanted to see the tar paper shacked and shantees and so forth. Needless to say, he was surprised at our civility, haha

Luvmypit
November 7th, 2005, 03:20 PM
Cyberkitten I noticed that comment and commented on it earlier and afterwards I felt I as being too sensitive and realized that you meant it as a joke.
At the same time I have been hearing this Ontario thinks they are Canada stuff more and more lately not from you but from different sources in articles and in comment sections blogs ect... Or I have heard the opposite that b/c we are from Ontario we are less Canadian. At the same time I am sure you accountered many full of themselves Ontarians and yes you hear more about Ontario but its b/c for 1 it holds the nations capital and 2 b/c it also holds the largest canadian city, Toronto. Its bound to granish more attention whether its warranted or not. Just like NY and DC probably gain more attention b/c of the same reasons in the US.

Shaykeija
November 7th, 2005, 03:45 PM
Should Quebec seperate they should lose all the comforts for which Canada allows us. No Canada Pension, no free medical, no government funding at all.
Passports to enter any other province and strict trade laws.

I do remember the FLQ and they were nothing but illerate thugs. I remember the killing and of suped up boarder patrols. I remember having our car torn apart by the QPP just because we had Ontario plates on the car. If they want out let them suffer.

I was in a Managers meeting in Chicago and the dummies entered a ballroom whrre we were having an internatiol meeting, waving their flag and doing their bull**** seperatist chant. They were all fired.

Quebec..bye bye lahhh