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Day one and the Nightmare begins

Me and Kayla
October 28th, 2005, 11:42 PM
I took Kayla for a long walk along Queen St. through the beaches today. She was actually quite good with the muzzle. She got it off about 3 times, but didn't kick up a fuss when I put it back on. A lot of people stopped and talked to us, giving us support for our poor babies. Some were actually appaulled at her having to wear that thing.

I did have a scary moment though. A guy was dog-walking 7 dogs altogether along Queen St. When we tried to pass, 4 of the dogs lunged, barking and baring teeth at Kayla. Two were Labs and 2 were Rotties (about 100 lbs each). Thank goodness the guy had a tight grip on them. I don't know how he was able to manage them all lunging at the same time, but he did. There was absolutely no reason for those dogs to go after her. She was being totally non-threatening. I personally think the muzzle got the dogs going. She would have been road kill if those dogs had gotten loose.

I don't think I really absorbed how totally defenseless Kayla will be if she is ever attacked, until today. I am seriously considering carrying some kind of a spray to help ward off other dogs that might come after her. I have come to the realization that instead of her defending me from an attack, it's going to be me defending her. :mad:

Me and Kayla

twodogsandacat
October 28th, 2005, 11:57 PM
Walking seven dogs at one time is now illegal in Toronto if that person is a professional dog walker. It was snuck in by Toronto while some professional dog walkers were too busy giving 'expert' testimony at the Bill 132 hearings. They didn't like that it was done without hearing from 'experts'. Go figure.

I certainly don't have it in for dog walkers (English Nannies for Dogs excepted) and I don't believe that this person actually permitted this or meant for it to happen and I usally forgive the first infraction (or two) but if it becomes a problem.......report it.

I have also considered the spray but I usally walk wearing boots and I will plant one of those where needed if needed. So far it hasn't been needed but I have brushed a dog away with my foot.

With the act fully in place the next time the Jack Russel comes running down the drive way I may well hand the owner a copy of the act with the 'menacing' comments highlighted.

Good luck to you and glad to hear you are getting support. I stand with you and this law will be overturned.

Conners
October 29th, 2005, 07:18 PM
I'm glad that guy had a grip of those dogs my dogs and Kala and I can imagine how scared you were. Not good for Day one! :sad:
The muzzles are going to cause a problem because I've had two incidences prior to today. One was another dog had the muzzle on and it scared Shasta. She growled at the muzzle as she knew the dog, but then the same happened in reverse. She had the muzzle on and when she got growled at, she went into a panic feeling totally defenseless. I quickly removed it and the two dogs licked each other.
Hopefully, as with anything else, the muzzles will look second nature to them, but for now, I'm not too sure.

Lissa
October 29th, 2005, 09:08 PM
I am so sorry that all you responsible pit bull owners and your innocent pups are having to go through this :sad: !

Today at the dog park, I lady scooped up her 3 year old son and hysterically asked "Is THAT a pit bull!" and pointed to a very friendly boxer :confused: ! Then, at the pet store, a man stayed in the car with his 2 pit bulls while his girlfriend took their JRT inside and a passerby demanded that they be muzzled - I can't believe what this is coming down to :sad: !

I am sorry that this nightmare is your reality. :mad:

gottahavepets
October 29th, 2005, 09:12 PM
Is this the Bull***** law or what. Banning breeds won't stop dogs from being vicious. Banning irresponsible owners might be a step in the right direction. ME AND KAYLA hang in there, this has got to end soon as they pull their heads from their *sses and realize it is wrong. Stay tough, you'll get thru. :fingerscr

Conners
October 29th, 2005, 11:01 PM
I heard that it would take Clayton Ruby approx. 7 or 8 months from Sept. 29th before the first court date. I WISH we knew what was going on! All I know is if I was a gambling man (woman), I'd place all my $$$ on Clayton Ruby over Michael Bryant any day.
Meanwhile, we just have to try to keep our dogs as socialised with other dogs as much as possible and take the hard punches from the stupid people that don't know what they are talking about. Thank heaven there's a lot more positive people out there than the lame brains that you couldn't talk to if you tried.
Believe me when that woman said that my dog should be shot, it wasn't the easiest not to say anything, but it would only be wasting words on people who can't see the wonderful nature for the breed...and don't even know what the breeds are.
I'm trying to think of it like a recovery. When my neck was broken, the surgeon said it would take about 6 months to recover. So, I looked as each day as one day closer to recovery even when the pain was unbarible.
Well that's what I'm going to try to do here too with Clayton Ruby ending all the pain in the end. Sounds easier than done, but to think one day closer a day at a time is the only way I think I can get through this.

Me and Kayla
October 30th, 2005, 01:07 AM
Well, day two was a little bit better. No harassment from other dogs or people, however, Kayla did manage to crawl under a bush and while yanking on the leash to get her out from there, she managed to get out of her harness and flip her muzzle off. She didn't figure out that she was 'free' right away, and it gave me that 3 second delay to hurl myself on top of her and wrestle her back into the harness and muzzle. Taking her for a walk is becoming a wild adventure. :eek:

All kidding aside, what the hell is this all coming to? Neighbours being encouraged to 'report' neighbours. Responsible dog owners being forced to carry 'weapons' for self defense for their dogs. Walking our dogs and looking over our shoulders at the same time. Scared silly because my poor dog might slip out the front door when one of my guests is leaving, and knowing that it could mean her 'death' if she is caught by someone other than myself. Afraid to let the leash extender out a little so that she can poo and pee. (she doesn't like to do it near anyone). Realizing that because I have a Pitbull, my dog owner expenses are going to balloon, or worried that any altercation with another animal regardless of whose fault it is, could result in a fine that could feasibly loose me my house, my dog and my ability to earn an income (if I end up in jail)...etc. etc.

Hard to believe that I once used to promote Toronto as the best city in the world to live in.

Michael Bryant, you are one useless piece of..........(fill in the blank)

Kayla and her disgusted owner

Conners
October 30th, 2005, 02:12 AM
You sound like your dog must still be young to still slip out when given the first opportunity. I'm glad Shasta is past that now. Before all this I took her out every nite around 9 PM and we had abut an hour to 1/2 hour of playtime where we just played. She never lift the boundaries of the property even if people or a dog walked by. But once I had to stop that, I soon had a rum away dog whenever my grand kids came over and opened the door. nturally, I'd be frantic and sometimes chasing her in the tinest of a nighty. Scared and embarrest at the same time.
Lucky for me, my neighbours all loved her and she'd go to them no problem, then hold her until I came to get her. I'd scold her and send her to the corner and finally she has outgrown that. *whew*
What kind of a muzzle to do you that she can slip out of it? I got Shasta the comfort muzzle, but I'm going to get her the 'Hannabel Lector' type kind only because John Wade said they are the most humane. All those temporary snout kind are for no longer than 20 minutes and they can cause breathing problems in the future. I don't want her to have to wear it, but at the same time, her life to me is more important than anything else. I'm sure with it on I'll get a lot more vicious remarks, but us owners will have to have some good come backs. One woman said (and I might not have this totally right), but when something was said to her, she replied, 'My dog is nothing to worry about, it's the bitch at the end of the leash you should be aware of!'
It's a whole new ballgame as us and our dogs as targets. No more late walks for me and Shasta, which we loved, but now we could so easily be pry to the wrong type of person. The Act says we are alowed ou in public providing our dogs are muzzled and on short leashed. If harrassed or attacked, call the police. So your dog is laying there bleeding from being kicked to nearly death and you have a knife in your back, what do you do? Ask the attacker if you can borrow his cell to call 911? It's crazy and it's scarey.
I hope out of this, we can get some kind of restitution for the mental strain we are all going through. Between name calling and those open dirt looks of discust that we get given, it'd hard to take.
Neighbour issues, which I just am going through because my neighbour racked up my phone bill unknowingly with long distance calls, and although I'd try to get him to pay, I was scared to cause too much problems as if he can do that with my phone, who knows the lies he can tell on my dog? But last night I desided to be brave and bold in a firm and nice way. I managed to get a small part of it, but now because his wife told me something that slipped out, I can use that to my advantage if the do decide to lie about Shasta.
This is going to make us very wary about EVERYBODY and that's not my nature.
Already with health problems, disabilities and chronic anxiety I can see this has made my conditions worse.
Me and Karla, you have to try to find some great comebacks that people are using and posting on the web. I believe it was in Good Pooch I read them.
London has dropped the million dollar third part disability as it was IMPOSIBBLE TO GET. Thank God! They also lowered other fees from what they were proposing, so perhaps we might be able to ge have a somewhat good Christnas after all in comparison.
It's a sad day when we have to take this mental abuse because of the dogs we own, but the government, especially Michael Bryant will give us no sympathy as he wants them GONE! Our only hopr is Clyton Ruby and to vent our feeling to show we aren't alone on this.
I wish you well along with the othe pittie owners and I'm glad we have this forum to voice our concerns.
Who is it that takes our harrassments and are sending them to Clayton for our fight? I'll get back to you on that one. Until that one, try to stay strong. :grouphug:

Me and Kayla
October 30th, 2005, 09:02 AM
Thanks for the words of support Connor. I realize that I am overly sensitive to all this right now, due to my personal fight to keep her.

As for Houdini (Kayla), there hasn't been a harness or muzzle made yet, that she can't wiggle or flip off her body. She has a slim body, silky fur and paws that she uses like hands. You wouldn't believe it until you've seen it. We have a new custom made harness on order, and a muzzle that we are modifying so that she can't get it off. As for her escapes out the front door...until now we have never worried, because she always just does a small 'freedom dash' around our townhouse complex and comes back, but now I go into a panic whenever anyone comes and goes from my house.

I agree Connor, this is about the 'mental anxiety' or anguish that ordinary, law abiding citizens are being put through to satisfy an egotistical politician with a personal agenda that has nothing to do with the safety of the people, but more with the number of votes on election day. (which I will be working against with every last ounce of energy I have)

Me and Kayla

Conners
October 30th, 2005, 07:39 PM
To bad Clayton Ruby wouldn't fight for the stress and anxiety this is putting dog owners in.
It's funny, but as much as you get the good people that hug and pat your dogs saying how rediculous this ban is, it's the few that spoil it and frighten you half to death by the mean things that they openly say.
To me, I feel if I come down to their level, it would prove that they are right, yet, it's ok for them to be ignorant to us.
Government has got us so discriminated against and the hate that is being shown to us, that I will not be walking my dog at night anymore as then that's just setting yourself up as a victim to happen.
Our lives are being changed and altered so dramaticly and there's no manual how to handle the ignorance of these people.
But I'm going to continue taking Shasta out by day and keep her socialized. I know when I see a muzzled dog, I first ask the owner if it's alright to pat it and then when I do, I tell it how beautiful it is and naturally, I tell the owner that if they ever see me walking Shasta or other muzzled dogs, to please do the same. In my area, many people already know Shasta as I've always put necklaces, sunglasses or clothes on her and they think she's totally adorable. They are the same ones saying the government is wrong to muzzle all the pit bulls, PLUS many of them have friends or amilies that own pit bull and think they are wonderful. Happily, that's the majority. Keep that in mind Me and Kayla, and good luck to ALL the pittie owners and even the other dogs that the dog uneducated moron don't know one breed from another.

gdamadg
October 30th, 2005, 07:48 PM
I had an episode tonight while walking Sprint. The neighborhood that I moved into, is fairly remote and some dark streets. We were walking and this couple with a "retriever type" dog (hard to tell in the dark), lunged at Sprint. And we were almost past them, so he turned around to keep an eye on the dog. Here is my dog, muzzled, on a short leash, at heal beside me, and whimpering cause he wanted to say hello and play. I didn't even think about it until I read this thread, that it has happened a lot lately. Even during the day. I am sure that it is the muzzle causing it.

All this going on, and my back is acting up again. Walking around like a constipated old man, lol. All it would take is for Sprint to turn to defend himself and pull me the wrong way and I would be on the ground. Until I am feeling better, I will be limiting our outings to walking around the back yard and walks at wierd hours, to limit the chances of running into people.

I hope that in time all this mass irrationality will be gone. But until then, we all have to be strong and proud of our lil ones. And stick together, building a wonderful community of "pitty" families. :grouphug:

CyberKitten
October 30th, 2005, 09:06 PM
retardedness - I am sorry - could you please not use that offensive term. It is a very hurtful and derogitory term and I cringe every time I see it! I am quite certain intellectually disabled people would never treat your dog the way these ppl have so I would appreciate it if such a horrible term was not used.

I am not just trying to be pc - I speak up every time I hear or see someone using that kind of language. I am active in disability rights organizaions and the plight many disabled ppl face daily is noit unlike the discrimination faced by pitbulls and their people. So I do hope you understand my concern. Thanks!

Saradog
October 31st, 2005, 08:08 AM
Please report all incidents of harassment because of your breed/type of dog to breedharassment @ rogers.com (without the spaces). Please give full details - who, what, when, where, what was said/done, your response.

Please report all incidents of human or dogs attacks on yourself or your dog to dogattacks @ rogers.com (without the spaces). Again, please give full details - who, what, when, where, details of any medical and/or veterinary treatment.

Saradog
October 31st, 2005, 08:11 AM
And don't forget letters to the editors of newspapers in your city/town of residence. We must keep this in the public eye.

Rottie owners must be freaking. I haven't seen a single report of "pit bull bites" in a while, but at least two "rottie bites" articles. Sounds like they're being lined up to be the next "banned breed".

Saradog
October 31st, 2005, 08:17 AM
Final post, I promise :) .

Please look at joining the Dog Legislation Council of Canada. It's only $20/year to join, the money goes to the legal challenge fund to fight Ontario's breed specific legislation, and it's gaining momentum as a voice for responsible dog owners. We need one LOUD voice composed of all our voices, rather than individual cries in the wilderness.

www.doglegislationcouncilcanada.org

gdamadg
October 31st, 2005, 11:42 AM
CyberKitten,

I appologize for the using that word and I will edit my original post to correct it. It was in no way meant to insult any individual or group.

Luvmypit
October 31st, 2005, 02:42 PM
Well I also had an incident. I was walking my capone and he had his stupid goddang stank a$$ muzzle on. he was doing relatively good but had managed to take it off about ever 5 minutes. Didn't slam his head to the ground like he does if he has it on at home. So we approach this black dog he immediatly apon seeing capone laid down (sign of submission) and as we approached capone went to sniff him, non threatening, actually he was wagging his tail fast so i figured all was well. Ahhh no.... The dog lunged and nipped at least 3 times while barking. The owner looked as if he was startled to see his dog act that way. He apoligized and we went on our way.

So now should we not even let our dogs sniff other dogs in case they get attacked. And if they get attacked am I supposed to sit by and allow him to be attacked. And if I take off his muzzle so he can defend himself what will happen? I am just so angry right now. I knew I was angry before but after this incident and the fact that most of you reported the same thing. When I saw the OP I almost about died. I knew now it wasnt the other dog but the muzzle on my INNOCENT DOGS face.

:mad: :mad: :mad:

Dukieboy
October 31st, 2005, 03:41 PM
I think we actually do have to keep our dogs away from other dogs while they have thier muzzles on unless they are familiar. The muzzle does produce reactions by other dogs and will probably occassionally produce fear agression in our dogs. Think about it. If they don't know immediately they will eventually learn that thier ability to protect themselves is impeded by the muzzle. It only takes one or two bad experiences....

Conners
October 31st, 2005, 09:15 PM
The DCLL is asking us to write these kind of things down to help our cause. The email addy is dogattacks@rogers.com and I wrote mine down. The more that respond the better it is for us and our dogs. Give Clayton Ruby more ammunition as to the injustice owners and their dogs are going through.

Me and Kayla
October 31st, 2005, 11:37 PM
Day three. Kayla is starting to lose the fur on her snout. It's coming off in small patches. May be an allergy to the leather or from rubbing her face on the floor after the muzzle is removed, but either way, in about a week she is going to have a bald mouth and snout. Her lips are also swelling quite a bit and poking through the gaps in the muzzle.
*sigh*..

Conners
November 1st, 2005, 02:03 AM
The poor thing. What kind of a muzzle are you using. I hate to do it, but I plan to go to the cage as it gives them the best freedom. The rest are pretty much for 20 minutes and temp. use.

gdamadg
November 2nd, 2005, 11:05 AM
I use the cage style on Sprint, but it has a felt lining that goes on the top of his snout. He has been wearing it since September and even now that he wears it all the time, I am not noticing any loss of fur. It may be on too tight, or if she is pushing the muzzle back into her face. Poor thing.

Did anyone see in the legislature about "doctors notes? lol.

Me and Kayla
November 2nd, 2005, 11:15 AM
I use the cage style on Sprint, but it has a felt lining that goes on the top of his snout. He has been wearing it since September and even now that he wears it all the time, I am not noticing any loss of fur. It may be on too tight, or if she is pushing the muzzle back into her face. Poor thing.

Did anyone see in the legislature about "doctors notes? lol.

It's a Catch-22. If you put it on loose enough to make it more humane, then she flips it off in 2 secs. If I tighten it to make it more difficult to get off then it's touching the front of her snout. I'm not convinced that the muzzle is actually causing the problem. When I take the muzzle off after her walk, she goes through a 10 min. frenzie of rubbing her mouth and nose on anything she can find. It's comical to watch, but I think that is when she is doing the damage.

I'm going to try the cage muzzle again to see if that gives her more relief. Lining it with felt is a good idea too. I did that with her halti to stop her from cutting her lips trying to rub it off on the ground and that worked well.

Me and Kayla

gdamadg
November 2nd, 2005, 11:29 AM
You probably don't want to buy another muzzle, but this is where I got Sprints. It's based out of Grande Prairie, Alberta. I have ordered 3 from there so far. One for Sprint and then 2 more for my sister and her roomates dog.
Euro Imports (http://andrewsimports.com/)

I couldn't find one that looked comfortable enough, so I ordered it online. After taxes and delivery, it worked out to around $45. It's shipped Canada Post Express Post, so you get it in about 3 days.

But with the weather changing, I am now looking for a plastic cage muzzle with similar design (ie: felt protection). My sister said she saw one in a little speciality pet store in Ottawa. I am hoping to go there this weekend. If I find one, I will find out the manufacturer and others can get it.

Oh yeah, Sprint does that little "rub-my-face" dance after a walk too. It is funny to watch, unless he is wet and decides that you are what he wants to rub on. lol.

Me and Kayla
November 2nd, 2005, 12:01 PM
Euro Imports

I checked out that site. I still don't see how that cage gives the dog room enough to drop his jaw and pant. That cage looks pretty snug to the bottom of the snout. The one I am using has about the same amount of space.

:confused:

Conners
November 2nd, 2005, 12:12 PM
Now I understand why some people were getting them custom made for their dogs. The sizing just isn't right with the store bought ones and irratate our kids. I wonder who to go to and how much a custom one would cost? Anyone have any idea's in the London area?

gdamadg
November 2nd, 2005, 01:53 PM
That cage looks pretty snug to the bottom of the snout.

It actually isn't that bad. If it is sized right. Sprint can drink and eat with it on. It drops down at an angle. He can pant with it on. My concern was, most of the cage muzzles I saw in the store, just had the wire and leather straps. Nothing to pad the snout. These ones do.

CyberKitten
November 2nd, 2005, 02:30 PM
gdamadg , thank you so very much for your consideration! I really really appreciate it!!

And I am so sorry all of you have to go thru this with your dogs. It is just so unfair - has anyone read about the sutuation in Cincinnati where similar legislation was overturned - in part bec it cost the municipaliy so much money and really did not change anything - except penalize innocent dogs and their people!

lezzpezz
November 2nd, 2005, 03:04 PM
Now I understand why some people were getting them custom made for their dogs. The sizing just isn't right with the store bought ones and irratate our kids. I wonder who to go to and how much a custom one would cost? Anyone have any idea's in the London area?

I was waiting for someone to ask this question! I went to the Big Bag pet supply store on Wharncliffe at Riverside, and asked the owner if he would be making these, as he makes custom leashes, collars, sled gear, pulling gear, all out of leather etc.

He said he wouldn't touch muzzles with a 10 foot pole, because of the possibility of a lawsuit if one of his muzzles broke, didn't work well etc. No way! I think you have to stick with a brand name muzzle here....

Conners
November 2nd, 2005, 03:38 PM
K...I just phoned there and he said they were the most safest and popular, although the dog will fight it for the first few weeks. He said keep it as positive as possible and get her used to it first, 'before' taking her out in public with it. He says they have the leather around it to protect the snout and best of all, they aren't even very expensive.
With a little imagination, with non-toxic lead free spray paint or some glitz and glitter, they may not have to look so bad. Make it into a positive attention topic. The nasty people will remain nasty no matter what, so nothing will change their views.
And most important, when out in public whether with or without your dog, don't forget if you see a muzzled pit bull, ask if you can pat it, and if yes, give it lots of lovin'. :love:

babyrocky1
November 2nd, 2005, 05:31 PM
Im still using the Muzzle for the Misunderstood, Rocky is better with it now. The leather is softening around his face, like they said it would, his plastic muzzle, cage style, is too big and is cutting his nose, I have heard that people are paying alot of money for these plastic ones, I checked it and double checked it, It shouldn't cost more than twenty bucks! Not if its the beige plastic muzzle, leather strap. I cant stand the thought of us being taken advantage of just because of the situation! Rockys is too big but I think that I will be gluing felt on the cage part itself because I think it will still hit his nose. For right now, this fall and winter season, I think the leather one is okay, for the summer, I will want another plastic cage one...much better ventilation and more room for panting. Rocky does rub his face a little after I take it off but mostly he rubs my leg to try and get it off when he wearing it. Now if I had a wire one Id really be in trouble. That would hurt! I took him Rollerblading today, my back is killing me, but it was somewhat fun, I spent the whole time trying to teach him "slowly" command, he was actually slower than usual because he is not used to "blading" with a muzzle! It still scrares the heck out of me, if he goes to chase a squirrel or something Im toast, but desperate times call for desperate measures!

Conners
November 2nd, 2005, 07:47 PM
ROLOF What a priceless mental image you portray! I could never bike with Shasta with the comfort muzzle. She wouldn't be able to breath. Lucky for me, she doesn't go after squirrels, etc. LOL
I imagine I will get a few good knocks with the wire one, but I thought if I had a few varied muzzles depending on what we have planned.
I'm coming across a problem about taking her to the store now. I never gave it a second thought before, but now I'm afraid to leave her outside the store while I run in. Twice now, I've either brought her in when a drunk came and approached us and the clerk said it was ok, and tonight, you don't know if with the muzzle someone might kick them or steal them. How would they fight back? But I need her to help me carry things, so it's like a catch 22.
This ban may have only started but already I see the life changes are going to be difficult as I need her for so much of my life.

babyrocky1
November 2nd, 2005, 08:00 PM
Exactly Conners, my life has totally changed already, Im flipping exausted for one thing! I cant leave Rocky outside our neighbourhood store either. I would be worried about him being too vulnerable too but also he can get his muzzle off, I never leave him out of my site with any of his muzzles. YES we do need a whole wardrobe of the darn things for different purposes it seems. Every morning I used to take him out for his morning constitutional...and then stop at the store and pick up my fruit etc. for breaky...now I have to take him home and then go out again.... and ofcourse Im on the highest floor and the elevator is broken, its been broken for weeks...I have to exercise Rocky two to three times as much as usual just so he is calmer with walking on the muzzle. And then theres the constant paranoia :eek: That city tv report "advertising" a call for Ontarions to "rat" on there neighbours is all my neighbourhood A$$s need to get them going. So basically the media creates a monster, then a politician creates a mob mentality in the media and then they enlist that "mob" to attack us! Animal Control has been complaining, before the ban even started, about all the crack pot calls they were getting! I can just imagine the amount of calls now!

gottahavepets
November 3rd, 2005, 12:12 AM
I walk Niki (border collie) with a gentle leader and everyone mistakes it for a muzzle. Would that be a way to get around using an uncomfortable muzzle? It gives the dog some mouth freedom but it is very easy to control the dogs head and keep the mouth closed when needed without causing too much discomfort. I can even muffle her barking when I need to and that (barking) seems to scare people more than anything. Niki still does the roll her face on the ground but I really dislike the idea of these poor dogs with muzzles on. Think Lady from L.A.T.T. (Disney) yikes.

Conners
November 3rd, 2005, 02:13 AM
The insane thing is they don't know a Jack Russel Terrier or a boxer from a Pit bull. Can you imagine all the false alarms that will be phoning in and keep them running? But that's for unmuzzled and running loose Pit bulls and we aren't doing that. We are ALLOWED in public providing our dogs are muzzled and the required leash length. We DO have the right to call the police if attacked or harrassed in public, so maybe with time we should use that right.
The shopping has got me boggled though. I need Shasta like a Service Dog to help me carry the load, or just being there because of my anxiety and phobias. She's my confidence, my companion, my life. She's the part of me that doesn't work, but together I'm whole. Do you know what I mean? She's to me, the same as a seeing eye dog to a visually impaired person. So the fear and anxiety this causes me is going to set me back to were I was in the first place if I allow it...and I won't! I just haven't figured out how to rectify this problem yet as it's too brand new, but definitely needs to be addressed.Unfortunately, bans comes with rules and not resolves, so we have to figure that out for ourselves somehow. It's the Ontario way. *sigh*
Maybe in the morning we'll see this was all a bad dream and none of this took place. *I WISH!* I'm going to bed. Tomorrow will be one day closer to Clayton Ruby winning this for us and the dogs. :fingerscr
Hang in there!

LM1313
November 3rd, 2005, 11:53 AM
I'm so sorry you guys have to go through this. :( I can't imagine having to put a muzzle on my baby. I live in the States and I think some individual cities / areas have rules like these, but no entire states as far as I know.

I'm really amazed to hear about people mistaking pugs, boxers, and Jack Russell terriers for pit bulls . . . Maybe you can use that to your advantage. Maybe if you put black spots on a white pit bull, people will think it's a dalmation. (Just kidding . . . but I'll bet some people would fall for it.)

~LM~

BullLover
November 3rd, 2005, 12:03 PM
Maybe if you put black spots on a white pit bull, people will think it's a dalmation. (Just kidding . . . but I'll bet some people would fall for it.)

~LM~

Thanks for your support. My middle child (dog) is white. Perhaps I'll doll him up with black spots. It might do the trick. He's pretty tall, so if they don't think he's a dalmation, maybe I can pull him across as a great dane puppy?

Conners
November 3rd, 2005, 01:52 PM
With Shasta I would need a full body wig to give her long hair and take the squarness off her face andgive her a bushy tail. Anyone great at sewing?

Me and Kayla
November 3rd, 2005, 01:57 PM
With Shasta I would need a full body wig to give her long hair and take the squarness off her face andgive her a bushy tail. Anyone great at sewing?

I have one better. My son just arrived with a down filled doggie coat, complete with faux fur trimmed hood. He got one for his pittie too. They'll never know she's a pittie under that coat. :D :D

Check out Global Pet Foods...They LOVE our babies, unlike PetsMart.

Me and Kayla

Conners
November 3rd, 2005, 05:21 PM
I have one better. My son just arrived with a down filled doggie coat, complete with faux fur trimmed hood. He got one for his pittie too. They'll never know she's a pittie under that coat. :D :D

Check out Global Pet Foods...They LOVE our babies, unlike PetsMart.

Me and Kayla
Quick tell me! Where did you get it? Is it on the net...or do you have a pic you can show us????

babyrocky1
November 3rd, 2005, 06:06 PM
Conners if you can get Shasta certified as your service dog, wouldn't she be exempt from the muzzling and at least she would get one of those coats, the service dog coats not the down coats lol and she would be allowed in the store to help you shop, wouldn't she?

babyrocky1
November 3rd, 2005, 06:09 PM
There is a Global pet store near me too, I have to check out those down coats. I changed my winter coat from a white one to a black one, Im buying my balalclava next LOL !

babyrocky1
November 3rd, 2005, 06:11 PM
Thanks for your support. My middle child (dog) is white. Perhaps I'll doll him up with black spots. It might do the trick. He's pretty tall, so if they don't think he's a dalmation, maybe I can pull him across as a great dane puppy?Rocky is a white dog with black spots, I have had people ask me if he is a dalmation.

Conners
November 3rd, 2005, 07:15 PM
Conners if you can get Shasta certified as your service dog, wouldn't she be exempt from the muzzling and at least she would get one of those coats, the service dog coats not the down coats lol and she would be allowed in the store to help you shop, wouldn't she?
The non-muzzling did not go thru for the Service/Therapy Pit bull dogs, but it's trying to get her properly trained and certified for me. Then she would be allowed in the stores, etc.
I have a phone number that I'm going to try again. I phoned there before (just before the Oct. 28th date) and they might have thought I was trying to get her out of being banned. That hadn't occurred to me at that point, so I thought I would wait and talk to them again a little later.
I can see at this point I may have to 'fight' to have her certified (even if muzzled), as I NEED help and I refuse to be totally housebound again due to phobia's.
In 3 years, babyrock, you would not BELIEVE the difference in me and I owe that ALL to Shasta. No matter how much pain this causes me, I owe this to her as she gave me back my life and some sence of independance again.
That's WHY I spoke at city Hall...and that definitely is one of my phobia's. Believe me, I was on a LOT of anti-anxiety meds and without Shasta by my side, I can hardly believe I got thru it. I just knew I had to...for her and the Pit bull breeds.

babyrocky1
November 3rd, 2005, 07:53 PM
I have a horrible phobia of speaking in front of groups too Conners, so I know how hard it must have been for you. When I went to the hearings, I was so happy to hear so many articulate people speaking basically my "heart" I will be grateful to all of them forever. There was no need for me to speak, they left nothing out, thats for sure, and I learned a remarkable amount. The speaking in public thing never used to cause problems for me cause I didn't have too many where I felt the need to do it, but now, and even before the PBull issue, I have become very engaged in political issues so it does really effect my life. I have been elected to various positions in the co-op housing sector but I have never showed up to make the usual speaches....they just elect me cause I work hard enough and speak to so many people on each and every issue, that no one has figured out that i do it one person at a time LOL...well except this one time that I convinced a whole meeting full of people that Tony Ianno, our then and unfortuantely still, MP, A guy that helped put the FIB in the word Fiberal was lying to us!!!! I was only able to do that because I was the only one in the room that new what he was up to and I wasn't expecting him to LIE. For a brief few minutes I was so outraged that I was able to "take him down" (I had a small shining moment :) No need to do that to Bryant, he does that to himself...16,16etc. consulted with the public etc. etc.

Conners
November 3rd, 2005, 11:14 PM
In school I took drama and loved the stage. I also had an excellent memory and if there was an issue, I was right in there like a dirty shirt, but the trauma, illnesses and disabilities took over which effected everything. Prior to this vicious Pit bull *****, I was happy wth my life with Shasta and excited about all the things we were accomplishing. Then the talks of BAN started happening and I never thought for a moment Bill 132 would be passed.
Now I NEED to speak up and it scares me to death, which makes it all the more harder as I get myself into a panic attack and of course my body pays for it.
Getting this message out to the public and the press is a MUST and the Pitties can't do it, so it's up to us. And the more important the issue the more I want to speak out and that's the most frustrating.
What I'm wondering and since I don't know much (anything) about politics, is if a new election is called and the Liberals are voted out, can that change the bill that Michael Bryant enforced and change it? :fingerscr

girl on wheels
November 4th, 2005, 01:10 PM
This whole pit bull thing is driving me crazy. How is it that dogs that have been so loyal and family oriented can be so discriminated against.
Even if there have been some incidents, these are individual, we havent decided to ban humans based on the atrocities that we have committed, and do we ever have alot to be accountable for .And there are a lot of different breeds that have bitten, they are not banned or persecuted.
even worse is the fact that so many people cant even identify different breeds. I have had people in the past ask if my old dane who had natural ears , was a lab? Now i have people stepping back from my little guy ( willie) who is a white british bull terrier ( with the typical football shaped head), saying " is that a pitbull??" What a laugh , because last year a lady on the other side of the street said to her little boy, Oh honey look at the lady walking her pig!!" ( And i have to say , he really is more of a pig than a dog , ) lol :p
But seriously, we need laws to protect dogs, and all other animals from bad owners, and the public from hysteria!

babyrocky1
November 4th, 2005, 06:38 PM
What I'm wondering and since I don't know much (anything) about politics, is if a new election is called and the Liberals are voted out, can that change the bill that Michael Bryant enforced and change it? :fingerscrBoth opposition partys have opposed Bill 132, the Torys apparantly have said that if elected they will trash it, the NDP has said that they will work with us to develop good dangerous dog laws that are not breed specific. If the Fibs, this is opinion now, were to win an minority gov, next time, hopefully the two opposition partys who are on record as opposed to bill 132 could be persuaded to work together to dump the bill! :fingerscr This is probably on e of the only things the pc and the NDP should be in agreement on. :)

Conners
November 4th, 2005, 10:32 PM
.And there are a lot of different breeds that have bitten, they are not banned or persecuted.
even worse is the fact that so many people cant even identify different breeds. But seriously, we need laws to protect dogs, and all other animals from bad owners, and the public from hysteria!
So right girls on wheels. Now that they have called on the public to 'rat' on the pit bulls and pit bull owners, people who just like to complain are complaing on any dog they 'think' is a pit bull. How can the governmnt ask the general public to place complants that the know nothing about? it's like a vigalanty group ganging up on us and our dogs. Who's the victims now?
How much more insane will this ban become and how much verbal abuse do we have to take? Is this not what it says in the new Act that if attacked or harrassed we should call the police. Perhaps we should start using our rights according to this screwy law.

jesse's mommy
November 4th, 2005, 10:36 PM
Well said GOW and Conners. As a whole, we need to figure out how to open the eyes of those who wear blinders.

Conners
November 4th, 2005, 10:37 PM
Both opposition partys have opposed Bill 132, the Torys apparantly have said that if elected they will trash it, the NDP has said that they will work with us to develop good dangerous dog laws that are not breed specific. If the Fibs, this is opinion now, were to win an minority gov, next time, hopefully the two opposition partys who are on record as opposed to bill 132 could be persuaded to work together to dump the bill! :fingerscr This is probably on e of the only things the pc and the NDP should be in agreement on. :)
What they saw and what they do, I have to see it to believe it. But I think Pit bull owners need to ask the questions to them and let them know that this makes the difference between depending on how we vote.

babyrocky1
November 4th, 2005, 10:42 PM
Absolutely true....they certainly know where I stand. They support BSL Im out of the party after 20 years...And Im someone that drags my but to campaign for them so they lose more than just my vote!

Conners
November 4th, 2005, 10:45 PM
Well said GOW and Conners. As a whole, we need to figure out how to open the eyes of those who wear blinders.
Eaier said than done Jessie's Mommy. Some people will not remove their blinders no matter what. Michael Bryant is a prime example.

babyrocky1
November 4th, 2005, 10:56 PM
How much more insane will this ban become and how much verbal abuse do we have to take? Is this not what it says in the new Act that if attacked or harrassed we should call the police. Perhaps we should start using our rights according to this screwy law.
I think all dog owners must be feeling some of this now, there is one woman who drives me crazy with her little dobey mini-pin. She seems to enjoy her little dogs incessant barking and lunging...he carries on forvever and Rocky has always ignored it. I dont know how he ignores it cause none of the humans can! Its really extreme and she has never corrected him, Yesterday I was walking by with Poor Rocky and his muzzle and the dog starts doing its thing...some woman comes running over from across the streeet and begins to yell at the owner of the mini-pin..."Your dog has to wear a thing on its mouth just like that one," pointing at Rockys muzzle! See how quiet that dog is, thats what you have to do ...rant rant on and on... She thought it was the muzzle keeping him quiet LOL Ive never seen anyone do that to anyone else in my neighbourhood, but now people have a liscence to tell off dog owners, It was nice it wasn't me on the recieveing end for a change. It was kind of comical. :D If it had been anyone else, except for my arch enemies ofcourse, I would have come to her defence but shes had that coming for years LOL

BullLover
November 5th, 2005, 12:22 AM
It was nice it wasn't me on the recieveing end for a change. It was kind of comical. :D If it had been anyone else, except for my arch enemies ofcourse, I would have come to her defence but shes had that coming for years LOL

Ha ha! Sounds like she did deserve to be told off. I was out walking Brutus the other day and a lady yelled at us to cross the street. WTF? My muzzled dog and I do not have to cross the street. If your dog, or you have a problem, then you can cross the street. I didn't say anything to her, but I wish that I should have. I'm a b**** usually when it comes to things like that, but for some reason I didn't open my big mouth. I've never seen this woman before. Wonder where she lives? :evil:

Conners
November 5th, 2005, 01:54 AM
I agree Babyrock, that woman may not have meant the muzzle was keeping Rocky quiet, but it was a good comeback to say, 'Look at this woman. She is responsible and what's wrong with you?' DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT IRRATATING BARKING!
Some times we need to use example to show people what we mean and the muzzle may have been a way of her saying HER dog is the one needing to be muzzled!

I can't believe someone would tell YOU to walk on the other side of the road and I'm glad you didn't oblidge. HOW RUDE AND IGNORANT! The law states we have just as much right in public providing our dogs are muzzled and on the proper length leash.
I suppose a simple remark saying, I'm abiding by all the rules and also have rights to this side of the road. Please don't be so rude. It's NOT good for your health. Have a good day! Let her fume at your politeness and maybe she might even realize just how rude she is. *doubtfull..but maybe"
What we need is to keep some of the laws on us and when people spout off, we can recite the appropriate law. LOL

love my dogs
November 6th, 2005, 10:15 AM
BullLover how awefull. That would have ticked me right off. Who does she think she is?

I would call ACC, write to LFP, and start causing a big fuss everytime you are discriminated against by a stupid ignorant person. That is not fair, you should not have to deal with idiots while you are walking your dog.

As far as I'm concerned the government owes us big time for creating discrimination against us. What is next..... hate crimes?

jesse's mommy
November 6th, 2005, 10:19 AM
What is next..... hate crimes?

Sounds like they have already created them within this law...

Conners
November 6th, 2005, 10:37 AM
I've decided that if I come across someone that is ignorant and says something like they did to BullLover or when that woman told mem, "That thing should be SHOT!', I'm not going to ignore it anymore. I've also going to use the come back, "In the Act it says I have the right to be out in public with my dog as long as she is muzzled and on the apropriate length leash. However, it also states that if I were are attacked or harassed, we have the right to call the police. You can find these Acts under the Goverment. ca website. I'll let it go this time, but in the future I would advise you to watch what you say to Pit bull owners or you could be be getting yourself in a lot of hot water."
We've got to show them that them yelling rude remarks is ALSO against the law and we as owners have the right to call the police and not take it anymore.

Conners
November 6th, 2005, 05:46 PM
http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/about/pubs/dola-pubsfty/dola-pubsfty.asp#TOC_06


The Ontario government's amendments to DOLA are designed to make all Ontarians safer. The fact that the government has chosen to ban pit bulls is no justification for harassment of pit bulls owners or cruelty to animals. Pit bull owners are allowed to keep their dogs and walk them in public, as long as they obey the law as it applies to all dog owners. However, pit bull owners walking their dogs in public after October 28, 2005, must comply with certain requirements, such as keeping the dog muzzled and on leash.

Pit bull owners who are subject to harassment that may constitute criminal activity and/or fear for their safety should contact the police.

Luvmypit
November 7th, 2005, 02:34 PM
Wow isnt that nice of them. Put a little disclaimer on there right after you urge the public to get into the animal control business.


reminds me of a time when this ban was first being talked about this lady and her young son where walking by with their cute UNLEASHED ****zu and she told me I thought those things were banned and had to wear a muzzle I said no but you know what is law? and of course played into it and asked what... and I said leash laws, last time I checked this was not a designated off leash area. She just gave me this whatever look and when i saw her about 5 minutes later her dog was leashed... MU HA HAHAHAHAHA:evil:

For me I have had things said to me like why isnt your dog muzzled and at the moment you cant think of a response that would put them in their place politely but after hearing it once or twice you have a ready made response to all the know it alls.

Conners
November 8th, 2005, 03:36 AM
You figure, we are the onces getting the verbal abuse by the ignorant so ans so's, so we SHOULD have comebacks right at them. Polite is possible, just not to stoop to their level, but keep it honest and right to the point.
My g/d knowing I can't take Shasta asked me if I wanted to go to the leash free park with her and her g/f with their dogs. I KNOW she didn't say it to hurt me and just as an outting, but why would I want to go somewhere where my dog isn't allowed? If anything that would upset me more.
On a HAPPY :fingerscr note: I spole with the secretary of Ann MacDonald of Canine 1 and she was talling me Ann just taught a dog (pit bull) to pick up screws that the nan dropped and can't picked up. She also asked me how Shasta felt about her muzzle. When I said not very, she said Ann could fix that without a problem. Soooooooooo....she is suppose to phone me and find out just what disabilities I have that we have to work on and my illnesses. It sounds PROMISING! When I asked her how much this would cost me, she asked me what kind of an income I had and I told her permanent disability. WHISH ME LUCK and for those that believe in prayers, PLEASE!!!! Please pray this works out for us!!!!

Luvmypit
November 8th, 2005, 03:33 PM
Good luck Conners!!!

melanie
November 8th, 2005, 04:16 PM
oh humans suck, their the most self centered, discriminatory, self believing stupidest mammals in existance, no truly they are.:mad:

this is all jsut to stupid for words, really it is, i dont know how you are coping, in your position i would be an angry little mess. you jsut pat those puppies and kiss em for all us mammals out here that dont hate them.

and if you dont have good boots, buy some for walking or carry a tennis/squash racket with you on walks, muzzles really do put your babies at a significant risk from other not so nice dogs. not only do you ahve to protect them from humans now but other dogs as they cant defend themselves anymore, oh its just dam sick.:mad:

but the law makers will pay a hefty price for this with thier karma, mark my words this will not go unpunished by the forces of the universe, thier karma debts must be real masty, and thats good, hope it sucks for them:mad:

Conners
November 9th, 2005, 05:00 PM
Thanks Luvmypit! Keep them toes, fingers, eyes and whatever you can cross crossed.

As far as what goes around, comes around, I believe Michael Bryant will get his in the end. He's already in hot water over a scandel, which could have been why he used the pit bull ban to keep that attention off of him. Funny how now that it is law the scandel just came out. Looks GOOD on him!
But as far as brains, I'd put my money on Clayton Ruby, so to me, this Pit bull Ban will be short lived...PLUS they are talking about a new election, that could also help.