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please, can anyone help

notoriousof5
October 12th, 2005, 10:01 AM
hi, I have a 12 year old collie x chow whose name is sara (sassy). about 2 weeks ago I noticed she wasn't eating very much, I didn't think much about it cause other dog kalee had just went through the same thing ,not eating and it lasted about 2 weeks and was now making progress. Sara was running around and playing up till about 1 week ago, but still refusing to eat and was now losing weight. Then over the next couple of days she just went from bad to worse, she was having trouble walking and keeping her balance, became lethargic and just wanted to sleep. She completely refuses to eat her dog food, i have tried many different types and brands over last week but she will eat table food (only meat) and doggie biscuits (in small amounts). I have taken her to the vet; spinal x-ray showed mild arthritis but there appeared to be a ?mass(es) in the abdominal area (whole picture appeared blurry to me, and had difficult time seeing many of the ribs) and i don't have another pic to compare it to. The vet suggested we do blood work to rule out cancer and then phoned me with results. He said that her RBC count was low, 2.9 from 5.5, and that she most probably had cancer of the spleen and the mass in her x-ray was abdominal bloating due to her bleeding out, but couldn't be sure. I have been doing alot of research on spleen cancer and she only exhibits the refusal to eat and weight loss symptons that i can tell. She has no other signs or symptoms. She drinks the same amount of water she normally does, she poops and pees as usual, no diarrhea, vomiting etc, she is alert and responds to her name, no worms or parasites, no bloating or masses noted, no temperature, coughing, sneezing etc... Her weight is down to 33 lbs, down about 12-15 lbs from before. I do believe that she is having trouble walking from the loss of muscle and body mass as she appears quite thin now. I am completely stumped as to what could be wrong with her, as i said before my other dog went thru same thing but not this far and she has already made a full recovery.Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated as the vet said the only thing he could do was put her down.I'm sorry, since early this morning she has started to drink lots of water. I was giving her 1/2 asprin every 12 hours,( until last night).

Lucky Rescue
October 12th, 2005, 10:16 AM
Sorry to hear about your dog.:(

IF the vet is correct and she does have cancer of the spleen and is bleeding into her abdomen, she is no doubt miserable.

Your vet can tell you if surgery to remove the spleen is a good idea. If the cancer has not spread too badly, removing it may give her a few more comfortable months.

Only surgery can tell if this is possible. I suggest you either do this, or have her euthanized now and end her suffering.

I know this a very hard thing to do.:(

Beaglemom
October 12th, 2005, 10:35 AM
I'm so very sorry about your dog. Hearing news like this is never easy.

I have to agree with Deb. She is most likely in pain as she has stopped eating. You could always go for a second opinion from another vet if it will help with making your decision a little easier.

notoriousof5
October 12th, 2005, 10:43 AM
Thank you deb for your thoughts, they are greatly appreciated. I just don't know if i can agree with the vet, he seemed to be guessing himself. My Sassy Sara does not to be in any pain at this time, her legs are weak and shakey but I have bought puppy grip boots to help her not slide and I have also taken an old crib mattress for her to sleep on and that seems to help her rest better. The vet won't do surgery on her cause her RBC too low and I completely agree with you about euthanizing her. She appears comfortable at home right now but when the time comes I won't be able to stand to see her in pain. Thank you again for your caring.

Puppyluv
October 12th, 2005, 10:54 AM
My deepest condolences :( It's a horrible experience when your dog is unwell and you can't figure out what is wrong. However, I do think that even though your dog is only exhibiting one or two symptoms of cancer, if the vet thinks it's a possibility, then it probably is. Many times the so-called "symptoms of cancer" aren't seen until it is too late. She may only be refusing to eat now, but in three weeks (three months, three years, whatever) the symptoms may be so numerous that she has to be pts (god forbid). I think it best that you take whatever action is possible now, despite your hesitance that the vet is correct. Also, dogs often appear to be pain-free when really they are ailing, and not eating, imo is a strong sign that something is seriously wrong.
Again, I am so sorry to hear about your poor girl :grouphug:

Lucky Rescue
October 12th, 2005, 11:14 AM
IF this is cancer of the spleen and your dog's abdominal cavity is filled with blood, she probably wont' eat again and it's time to let her go. This is not an uncommon cancer among dogs and the vet has probably seen it enough times to make an accurate guess.

Please come back. Most of us have been through this, and you'll find a very sympathetic audience here.:(

justncase
October 12th, 2005, 12:24 PM
I thought you might be interested in these testimonials:

Subject: Dog cured of histiocytic sarcoma
Date: Sun, 3 March 2004
From: George Catandella
Flaxseed oil and cottage cheese saved Maggie's life. She had a histiocytic sarcoma, multilobular, multimodular, focal splenic mass. Maggie is a 6 lb Maltese that was given 3 months to live (with chemo) after removing the mass. We chose not to give her chemo, but the flaxseed oil & low-fat cottage cheese instead. One year has passed and she behaves like a healthy, happy pup. Her vet is amazed as are we.


" I have a 13 year old dog. He has cancer. He's eyes are dull and he's so weak he can't lift his leg. I should have put him to sleep but I didn't want to. I put a Tbsp. of Flax oil and a half cup of low-fat cottage cheese in his bowl and he wolfed it down. I did that three times a day for ten weeks. Today he's running all over the place, his eyes are bright, his coat is shiny and he's gaining weight." That was the 2nd dog I'd heard of in 3 days that showed improvement from using Flax Seed oil. The other is owned by my cousin's daughter" - annon.

What they are talking about is 1- 2 tablespoons( you can give that much and more- some give 1 1/2 tablespoons to every 1/4 cup of low-fat cottage cheese) of cold-pressed flaxseed oil mixed well into one -half cup of low-fat cottage cheese given several times a day. (keep the flaxseed oil in the fridge or it will turn rancid)

As for the loss of muscle mass, the amino acid called L-glutamine( pets need 20 or so amino acids.They get them from food.l This is an important one) will restore lost muscle mass. Holistic vets say to give one 500 mg capsule twice a day regardless of the size of the pet.

Lucky Rescue
October 12th, 2005, 02:05 PM
I have a 13 year old dog. He has cancer. He's eyes are dull and he's so weak he can't lift his leg. I should have put him to sleep but I didn't want to. I put a Tbsp. of Flax oil and a half cup of low-fat cottage cheese in his bowl and he wolfed it down. I did that three times a day for ten weeks. Today he's running all over the place, his eyes are bright, his coat is shiny and he's gaining weight." That was the 2nd dog I'd heard of in 3 days that showed improvement from using Flax Seed oil. The other is owned by my cousin's daughter" - annon

Hmmmm...what kind of cancer? Which organs involved? Who diagnosed it and by what testing? Had it metastized or was in in situ? Is the cancer now gone, or is it in remission? Is it showing on any scans, x-rays or ultrasounds?

Anonymous and vague internet testimonials of miracles occuring are not something I would put faith in. This person gives absolutely no information whatsoever.

Flax seed oil and cottage cheese is not going to cure advanced cancer of the spleen or any other kind of cancer. If it did, it would be heralded around the world and we would all know about it.

justncase
October 12th, 2005, 02:49 PM
Flax seed oil and cottage cheese is not going to cure advanced cancer of the spleen or any other kind of cancer. If it did, it would be heralded around the world and we would all know about it.


It's common knowledge about flaxseed oil and low-fat cottage cheese and cancer. In fact the doctor who discovered it , Dr. Johanna Budwig, PhD(She holds a PhD in natural science, has undergone medical training, and was schooled in pharmaceutical science, physics, botany and biology) was nominated 7 times for the Nobel Peace Prize. Below is just one iota of the reams of info on the subject. What is detrimental is when something is immediately discounted by those who don't do any kind of research first to see if it has any credibility. A simple Internet search could have accomplished that. Immediate discrediting - because one has never heard of it themselves- hurts the person seeking help and does nothing to further that person's accumulation of valid and valuable knowledge.

This is less than l% on the subject:

A Tribute to About 7 time nobel peace prize nominee's cancer cure
... nobel peace prize nominee's cancer cure I wish to thank GOOGLE for ... who has been treating cancer of all kinds with nothing but cottage cheese and Flaxseed Oil for over 16 years. She says that ...

www.geocities.com/west19322003/tribute_flag.html Cached page

www.positivehealth.com/permit/Articles/Nutrition/turner60.htm Cached page
Flaxseed Oil
FLAXSEED OIL & COTTAGE CHEESE Dr. Johanna Budwig is known and highly respected ... of books including Cancer-A Fat problem, The Death of a ... to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease ...

www.herbs4healing.com/Flaxseed_Oil/flaxseed_oil.html Cached page
Leukemia Cancer Treatments
... Cure How to Use This Blog Why Alternative? Cancer Cells Love ... Cancer Cells Hate ... Dr. Budwig's Diet The Immune System E-Mail me Friday, October 08, 2004 Flaxseed Oil and Cottage Cheese Diet My ...

radio.weblogs.com/0135129/2004/10/08.html Cached page
Dr. Budwig Diet
... How I Detoxify My Body About Enemas Your Cancer Cure How to Use This Blog Why Alternative? Cancer ... to forget the core of the Budwig Diet, flaxseed oil/cottage cheese (fo/cc) and freshly ground flaxseeds. ...

radio.weblogs.com/0135129/stories/2004/03/04/drBudwigDiet.html Cached page
Show more results from "radio.weblogs.com".
Flaxseed and health
... cancer will be diagnosed in about 1 in 6 men, about 1 in 30 will die of the disease. Flaxseed oil with cottage cheese? Dr ... cottage cheese? Flaxseed oil is ... cure or ...

www.healingdaily.com/detoxification-diet/flaxseed.htm Cached page
flaxseed oil and cottage cheese
... flaxseed oil and cottage cheese Articles Cancer cure Dr. Budwig Diet, Flax seed oil And Cottage cheese Flaxseed oil and cottage cheese. The basis of Dr. Budwig's program is the ...

www.missouriminer.com/flaxseed-oil-and-cottage.html Cached page
Flax Seed Oils - Lowes Prices and Info!
... Dr. Budwig, has been treating cancer of all kinds with nothing but cottage cheese and Flaxseed Oil for over 16 years. She says that ... approach that is getting a 95% cure rate. Nothing in American ...

flaxseed-oil.blogspot.com Cached page
Flaxseeds, Chia, and Oil
... Budgwig, a German doctor, created the Budwig diet part of which uses cottage cheese (or quark) with flaxseed oil. From Cancer Cure Foundation(www.cancure.org): "Budwig diet/flax seed oil: The Flax seed ...
www.annieappleseedproject.org/flaxandoil.html Cached page

Healing Cancer Naturally: Dr. Johanna Budwig's Diet & Cancer Healing ...
... and protocol based upon flaxseed oil plus cottage cheese to help heal cancer naturally, complemented by fruit ... Thanks to Flaxoil/Cottage Cheese Bladder Cancer Cure Testimonials Pet (Dog & Cat ...

www.healingcancernaturally.com/budwig_protocol.html Cached page
Flax Oil and Cancer pt.1
... He says scientists can cure cancer. "I know how, and I learned it from ... who has been treating cancer of all kinds with nothing but cottage cheese and Flaxseed Oil for over 16 years. She says that ...

www.beckwithfamily.com/Flax1.html Cached page
Dr. Johanna Budwig Cancer Diet
... Flaxseed oil and cottage cheese Six time nobel award nominated doctor says this essential nutrient combination ... actually prevents and helps body to cure cancer! by Robert Willner, M.D.,Ph.D. (author of ...

www.risingsunhealth.com/dr_johanna_budwig_cancer_diet.htm Cached page
FAQs
... take with the flax oil besides cottage cheese? Does ... in her research on flaxseed oil and its effect on cancer patients. So, no ... to treat, diagnose, cure or prevent any ...

www.budwigflax.com/FAQs/questions.htm Cached page
Dr. Budwig Studies
... solution or cure to the list of diseases ... is very similar to cottage cheese. Why flaxseed oil? Dr. Budwig chose ... months on her flaxseed oil-quark combination, cancer patients began to ...

www.budwigflax.com/Articles/Dr%20Budwig.htm Cached page
Show more results from "www.budwigflax.com".
Dr. Johanna Budwig
... to successfully heal terminal cancer patients, people with heart diseases ... oil, which is rich in Omega3 oil, and quark, which is something similar to cottage cheese or yogurt in that it is rich in high ...

lightsv.org/bud1.htm Cached page
Essential Oils - Essential Oil For Cancer ☼
... diet and protocol based upon flaxseed oil plus cottage cheese to help heal cancer naturally, complemented by fruit and ... Dr. Johanna Budwig's Cancer Cure Diet Six Time Nobel Award Nominated DR Johanna ...

www.finest-essential-oils.org/essentialoilforcancer
Flax seed - Golden Flax - Premium Gold Flax - Flaxseed from Premium ...
... Seed, flaxseed, flaxseed oil, benefit ... cottage cheese, and salads. Stir ground flaxseed or flaxseed oil into soups ... colon cancer. One ounce of flaxseed provides 32 ...

www.premiumgoldpack.com/flax.html Cached page
Budwig Flaxseed Diet Cancer Treatment
... trials by feeding cancer patients a mixture of 3-6 Tbsps. flaxseed oil and 4 oz. (1/2 cup) low-fat cottage cheese daily. The mixture is most ... Cure Foundation MUST READ article on Budwig Diet ...

www.cancertutor.com/Cancer/Budwig.html Cached page
Flax Seeds Benefits by Flaxseedpro.com
... Charlemagne so revered the health benefits of flax. Related terms include flaxseed oil & cottage cheese cure for cancer , flax seed golden brown , daily diet abd exercise journal , typical daily diet and ...
www.flaxseedpro.com/flax_seeds_benefits_g.html Cached page

Beaglemom
October 12th, 2005, 04:01 PM
I would think that it would be worth a shot as long as it didn't make the dog suffer anymore unnecessarily. If the cancer has metasticized and is too far along, then only the humane thing to do would be the answer. Last May we had to have our beloved maltese x pts due to her aggressive cancer. She had surgery only to have the tumors return within days. We were left with no choice but to do the right thing for her since it was obvious that when she stopped eating, she was in pain. If I had been given this option back than, I would have also attempted it along with her other treatment options. Although, I don't think it would have helped her due to her very aggressive cancer. I do believe that more and more people will start to turn to homeopathic remedies once they learn a bit more about them.

Cancer is a terrible disease. It hits suddenly and can be very devastating. It can be extremely aggressive to the point of being diagnosed one day and the pet/person gone within weeks no matter the treatment.

notoriousof5
October 12th, 2005, 04:39 PM
Thank you all for all your input, I know natural remedies are sometimes skeptical, but at this point I will try anything (remember that glucosamine is now being used to treat animals with arthritis). I am still skeptical of the vet and of cancer because he said it was his best guess. He couldn't read the x-rays properly because they were to filmy, and I don't think he did the proper bloodwork up on her. I mentioned to him that I thought maybe someone could have feed them something to do this because of the other dog becoming violently ill (throwing 3 grand mals in 1 night), losing 1/3 rd of her body weight then making a complete turn around. For unknown reasons, possible cancer, my sara is not improving. She is still very alert, trying to run and bark. She is eating only certain meats (that mommy is preparing) but in small qualities. She still tries to dig thru the garbage but she refuses dog food.Does anyone know if I have the right to ask for copies of the lab and x-ray from the vet, or do they own them? Thank you all once again having friends on tis site can make a world of difference. :grouphug:

BMDLuver
October 12th, 2005, 04:55 PM
If you paid for the labs, xrays, blood work then they are legally yours to do with as you please. You can request them to be released to you at any time and they should willingly do so.

notoriousof5
October 12th, 2005, 07:03 PM
Thank you BMD, i'll phone in the morning to get them. Also, for the flax seed and cottage cheese idea, do I have to use low fat cause she is eating the 2% for some reason.

maddoxies
October 12th, 2005, 07:32 PM
I belonged to a yahoo group Cancer canines. It is owners of dogs with cancer. They were great when Champ had leukemia. They were supportive and had some practical suggestions for cancer fighting diets and how to entice a failing appetite.

It is so hard sometimes to know when it is time. Have we given them every chance, but not making them suffer needlessly.

If you do not feel that your vet is sure about the issues, then i would suggest a second opinion.

So sorry to hear what you are going through. My golden girl had good quality of life for 6 months longer than the vet estimated (liver cancer), but I lost my golden boy in days after the leukemia diagnosis. Many of us have walked similar roads to the one you are on now, support is here for you

:grouphug:

CyberKitten
October 12th, 2005, 07:44 PM
I am sorry to hear about your dog. And yes, you have every right to ask your vet for the results. It might not hurt to obtain a 2nd opinion - especially with cancer. Even though there are not many ppl in my field where I live, I welcome parents who want to obtain a 2nd opinion. (I am a pediatric oncologist)

I was somewhat alarmed to read about the flax seed oil alledged "cure" for cancer. Although some ppl will say there is, we really do not have a "cure" for cancer. Of any kind, traditional or alternative therapy so alarm bells ring for me when anyone - reagrdless of who they are - promise a cure. NO-ONE can promise that and my heart aches when I hear it. It is just so not true and unfair to anyone with cancer or who has a loved one with cancer to have someone say that to them.

I do not know everyone on the Board but I would wager I know and have known more people with cancer than anyone here. Do I consider myself an expert? No, I don't like the term. The best we can be is to use our abilities and knowledge to help people stay alive and enjoy a good quality of life.

I can't tell you what to do because I have not seen your dog's health history and have no way of knowing what else might be causing the problems. Nor am I a vet and I do know that cancer is dogs is not the same as in humans. They tolerate chemotherapy much better (cats do as well) and good nutrition in a dog is completely different than good nutrition for humans.

As for the flax seed diet, some people claim to have been "cured" by it - though some have seen their cancer return and that just by that definition is NOT a cure. I don't think flax seed can hurt you tho for the last decade, it was one of the more frequently mentioned nutritional supplements promoted for all manner of things. It IS excellent source of omega-3 oil and in that regard, is not harmful and may help - depending on what else is in your dog's system. Every substance - drug, food or supplement interacts with others and even ones we consider inoccuous can become lethal with the wrong combination.

There is one type of cancer flax seed is known to increase and that is prostrate cancer (Obviously not in my pratice but it was much discussed at a research conference I attended not too long ago. You can read that here in the medical journal it was published in: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/80/1/204

Cancer is really a series of diseases. There is no one cancer. They are all unique and must be treated as such. IF your dog has a tumour in the spleen, you might ask your vet about surgery or a referral to a specialist. I did read this not too long ago (when I was searching for info on pediatric screen cancer studies): http://www.acaciapetclinic.com/cases/spleen.htm

For some reason, I am told by my vet that spleen cancer is more common in dogs than ppl (she has not done research as to why and has a general practice ) . All I know is that any cancer of the spleen is potentially dangerous because the mass can break open and bleed into the abdomen, plus the tumor (s) can be a source of cancer cells spreading elsewhere in the body. The obvious treatment choice is to temove the spleen which is actually something that is often done in pediatric cancers of varying types.

I just think you need more information before you embark on a specific course of action. I don't think giving your dog flax seed oil will hurt but I would never promise it as a cure. I think it is common sense to realize that eating well prevents cancer - I am not convinced it cures it. I have had some patients and parents of patients who have tried the flax seed oil - and while I have not conducted a stidy of it, I do keep very copious records and those who had promising outcomes in any rate did well and those with end stage cancer or less than promising outcomes did not. In other words, I did not persoonally witness any miracles. I have seen some things I cannot explain medically (a whole other and even longer post!!!) - that have worked but none of those involved flax seed oil.

I wish you luck with your dog!! I do hope it turns out not to be cancer and can be well treated. If not, I hope you get the best care possible!

Prin
October 12th, 2005, 09:49 PM
Thank you for this CK. Well put.
I was somewhat alarmed to read about the flax seed oil alledged "cure" for cancer. Although some ppl will say there is, we really do not have a "cure" for cancer. Of any kind, traditional or alternative therapy so alarm bells ring for me when anyone - reagrdless of who they are - promise a cure. NO-ONE can promise that and my heart aches when I hear it. It is just so not true and unfair to anyone with cancer or who has a loved one with cancer to have someone say that to them

justncase
October 12th, 2005, 10:07 PM
Did anyone " promise" that flaxseed oil and cottage cheese would 100 per cent of the time cure cancer? No, but Dr. Budwig herself said that a 90 percent success rate was the norm.It's puzzling how, when something new is mentioned , it's immediately discredited- most times by those not bothering to study her findings.

Dr. Budwig has a PhD and was nominated 7 times for the Nobel Peace Prize.German's foremost biochemist with two doctoral degrees in physics and chemistry , schooled in pharmaceutical science, physics, botany and biology. It would appear that she is credible and what she would have to say is also credible. Can her critics say as much?

http://www.positivehealth.com/permit/Articles/Nutrition/turner60.htm


" Dr Johanna Budwig is one of Germanys premier biochemists and an expert on fats and oils. She holds a PhD in natural science, has undergone medical training, and was schooled in pharmaceutical science, physics, botany and biology.
She is best known for her extensive research on the properties and benefits of flaxseed oil combined with sulphurated proteins in the diet, and over the years has published a number of books on the subject, including Cancer: A Fat Problem, The Death of the Tumour, and True Health Against Arteriosclerosis, Heart Infarction and Cancer."

"Since Dr Johanna Budwig's findings on the benefits of flaxseed oil have been widely publicized, scientists around the world have eagerly jumped on the bandwagon. Studies conducted using flaxseed oil on numerous disorders have been pouring in from all over the world, showing impressive results, including anti-tumour activity, increased metabolism, greatly boosted immune system, reduced cholesterol levels, normalized blood pressure levels and inhibition of cancer cell growth. Books, research reports, articles and testimonials abound, all touting the healthy benefits achieved by supplementing the diet with organic, raw, cold-pressed flaxseed oil and with low-fat cottage cheese. Dr Budwig?s research was based on using the ratio of two tablespoons flaxseed oil mixed with one-quarter cup of low-fat cottage cheese."

" After more than ten years of solid clinical application, Dr Budwig's natural formula has proven successful where many orthodox remedies have failed. Dr Budwig?s formula has been used therapeutically in Europe for the prevention/treatment of: cancer, arteriosclerosis, strokes, cardiac infarction, irregular heartbeat, fatty degeneration of the liver, bronchial spasms, irregular intestinal activity, stomach ulcers (normalizes gastric juices), hypertrophic prostate, arthritis (exerts a favourable influence), eczema (assists all skin diseases), common afflictions of old age, poor brain activity, immune deficiency syndromes (multiple sclerosis, autoimmune illnesses)."

" The flaxseed (linseed) oil diet was originally proposed by Dr Johanna Budwig in 1951 and recently re-examined by Dr Dan C Roehm MD FACP (oncologist and former cardiologist) in 1990. Dr Roehm claims:: this diet is far and away the most successful anti-cancer diet in the world"."(Roehm DC. Townsend Letter for Doctors. July 1990.)

http://www.risingsunhealth.com/dr_johanna_budwig_cancer_diet.htm

"In 1967, Dr Budwig broadcast the following sentence during an interview over the South German Radio Network, describing her incoming patients with failed operations and x-ray therapy":

"Even in these cases it is possible to restore health in a few months at most, I would truly say 90% of the time".


"This has never been contradicted, but this knowledge has been a long time reaching this side of the ocean, hasn't it? Cancer treatment can be very simple and very successful once you know how. The cancer interests dont want you to know this.May those of you who have suffered from this disease (and I include your family and friends in this) forgive the miscreants who have kept this simple information from reaching you for so long".
(signed) Dan C. Roehm, M.D. FACP


Six time nobel award nominated doctor says this essential nutrient
combination actually prevents and helps body to cure cancer!

by Robert Willner, M.D.,Ph.D.

(author of "The Cancer Solution").


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.houseofsteed.com/sons/budwig.htm

"
It is apparent when one hears Dr. Budwig tell her story that she was strongly impressed by certain scientists. One of them was Professor Dessauer. She told Search.for Health that in 1954 Dessauer wrote Quantenbiologie, and in his first chapter he pointed out the problem with the suppressive mind set of the establishment. In Dr. Budwig's words:


"Researchers in border areas have a hard time. The old occupants of professor's chairs feel threatened."
Then she added: In the case of my work, we have the additional factor that big business, also threatened by my findings on fats and oils, immediately formed interest groups together with these all-too orthodox professorial chairs.
Now we are back to the more mundane aspects of this woman's suppressed science. She has spent the last 40 years in a running battle with the food industry moguls. The evolutionist guardians and the cancer establishment were pikers next to the powerful food industry monopoly. This woman had dared to call attention to the "criminal treatment of natural oils by the refining processes."

She was the first scientist to challenge the nutritional horrors created by refining vegetable oils with high temperatures, pressures and solvents-and all this comes before the process of hydrogenation.


http://www.healingcancernaturally.com/budwig_protocol.html

"What she (Dr. Johanna Budwig) has demonstrated to my initial disbelief but lately, to my complete satisfaction in my practice is: CANCER IS EASILY CURABLE, the treatment is dietary/lifestyle, the response is immediate; the cancer cell is weak and vulnerable; the precise biochemical breakdown point was identified by her in 1951 and is specifically correctable, in vitro (test-tube) as well as in vivo (real)...
Dr. Dan C. Roehm M.D. FACP (oncologist & former cardiologist)
in "Townsend Letter for Doctors", July 1990"



Research Studies On Animals Into the Effects of Flaxseed and Flaxseed Components (Lignan, Lignan Precursors & Oil) on Cancer and Tumor Growth

http://www.healingcancernaturally.com/budwig_protocol.html#Research


Books on the Subject:

Gerson MM. A Cancer Therapy: Results of Fifty Cases and the Cure of Advanced Cancer by Diet Therapy: A Summary of 30 Years of Clinical Experimentation. Element Books. 1958.

Budwig J. Flax Oil as a True Aid against Arthritis Heart Infarction Cancer and Other Diseases. 1982.


It is interesting how flaxseed oil and cottage cheese ( both foods) are regarded with such trepidation yet Prednisone( a chemical) is routinely given while its side-effects are many:

http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/pred_ad.htm



Also of interest:

http://www.cancertutor.com/Other/NoCancer2.html


Are cancer cures suppressed?
http://www.cancertutor.com/Other02/Doc2Doc.html

"Cancer is another big area where effective therapies are known but not used and even actively suppressed. This is the area originally that got my concern since I noticed without any outside input that nothing had changed in the 25 years since I had graduated from med school. The same barbaric treatments were still being applied. Nothing was being done to answer the question as to why the cancer rate had gone from about 1 in 50 lifetime occurrence in 1900 to 1 in 3 today. The answer is obviously in something we breath, eat, or drink that differs today from 1900. Nobody even is considering this, they are looking instead for more deadly poisons to kill cancer rather than to prevent it. "(WM Wassell, MD )


No cure for cancer? And what does famous New York holistic vet, author and lecturer Dr. Martin Goldstein, DVM has to say about that :

"Dr. Goldstein has this to say about cancer:

" By the time I see a pet with cancer the owner has likely heard the diagnosis from his own vet and had days, perhaps weeks to ponder the news.Chances are he's bcome frantic, depressed or just plain pessimistic,... if the pet has gone through a regimen of chemotherapy or radiation which hasn't eradicated the cancer, the owner is likely to be all the gloomier.How can a pet whose life is devoted to pleasing his master be unaware of this attitude?(Note: if this is true is your pet also aware of what you are contemplating for tomorrow? That you've given up hope)....that's why during a cancer patien'ts first visit even before I take a blood sample ... I deal with the owner too. I show him albums of before and after pictures of terminally ill dogs and cats we've saved with Immuno-Augmentative-Therapy and other holistic measures. I tell him the stories I've told in this book, I make him understand that cancer is not a death sentence, that patients do get well...."( page 289, The Nature of Animal Healing)

BTW, notoriousof5, the cottage cheese recommended is low-fat. It has to say low-fat to be effective. 2% M.F. isn't low-fat. (you might be able to find it as dry curd rather than creamed). It's up to you as to whether you want to try this approach or not, but please, don't let yourself be convinced by those who discredit without having the research behind it to substantiate it.

Prin
October 12th, 2005, 10:39 PM
Justncase, I think you read way too many books. ;)

LoNScamp
October 12th, 2005, 11:17 PM
In December 2004, I was faced with dealing with what was best for Kaos. She had been diagnosed with Transitional Cell Carcinoma in Feb. 2004. In October lumps began to appear in lymph glands. The initial needle biopsies came back negative and then in late November inconclusive. In December, I started to see a vast difference in her behaviour. It was becoming clear that she was not feeling well and eventually that she was in pain.

I discussed with my vet the possibilities of what could be done to help her. One of the discussions was that he was sure that Kaos had lymph cancer and knowing my dog (having done HD surgery and exploritory for the TCC) that she was in pain. I had the option of having further biopsies done to confirm that it was lymph cancer and then chemo which I understand has a high sucess rate with lymph cancer.

I thought about it and took into consideration the following: dogs live by a different code than people do and if there is a limited quality of life and they are in pain what is best for them? When Kaos was first diagnosed with TCC I read a book written by a DVM that talked about living with a dog with cancer. I remember two things very clearly from the book: 1. in a nature animals that become sick or are dying go off by themselves, something we don't allow in domestic situations. They rarely die a natural death, a predetor almost always kills them, they do not suffer for long periods of time as do some domestic pets and 2. euthanisa means easy death, which is something I think we want for our pets.

I asked myself if I was prepared to put her through more surgery and then have chemo done on her. My decision was that it was in Kaos' best interests that she be euthanized. This was the hardest decision I have ever had to make. Of all my many fury folk our bond was unique. I still miss her very much, and sometimes ask myself if I did the right thing, then remind myself that I know I did, she did not deserve to suffer.

I was fortunate in that I trusted my vet's judgement and he guided me throught the decision making process. I you are unsure I would get a second opinion and quickly.

I will also add that out of desperation in trying to build her immune system and to try to slow the cancer down I tried homeopathic remedies, they obviously didn't work. Do I regret doing it no. Do I think they helped, not in this situation. It is important to do what you think is right, but not in such a way that the dog's suffering is prolonged.

notoriousof5
October 13th, 2005, 09:15 PM
Lonscamp, I am truly sorry to hear of your loss of kaos. In 1999, we loss our beloved booboo of 20 years, and we still miss her very, very much. My sara is walking around a bit more today and eating some of the leftovers from the kids. I also went out last night and bought the flax seed oil and cottage cheese. I still don't think that it could be cancer, it doesn't explain how come my kalee became so violently sick and having seizures, then makes a complete comback. How can both dogs become so sick around the same time. Does anyone know how long a dog can be on asprin for (I wonder if that could have caused her low RBC). Sha had been takin 1/2 tab every 12 hours for 5-6 days before her bloodwork was drawn. Does anyone know of any chemicals or poisons that could cause these symptoms in dogs. Sara has not thrown any grand mal seizures yet, and kalee hasn't had any since that 1 night (3 in one night). Everyones input and experiences have been greatly appreciated and I look forward to hearing from you all, and sara thanks you all too.

LL1
October 16th, 2005, 09:06 PM
I am so sorry about your dog. :(

Is Dr. Budwig still alive?She would be 101.When was she nominated?And who nominated her?Since there is no way to verify that information unless it is over 50 years ago it is a pretty safe claim to make.You would think if she discovered this miracle 54 years ago oncologists would be yelling everywhere for people to try it.
Did anyone " promise" that flaxseed oil and cottage cheese would 100 per cent of the time cure cancer? No, but Dr. Budwig herself said that a 90 percent success rate was the norm.It's puzzling how, when something new is mentioned , it's immediately discredited- most times by those not bothering to study her findings.

Dr. Budwig has a PhD and was nominated 7 times for the Nobel Peace Prize.German's foremost biochemist with two doctoral degrees in physics and chemistry , schooled in pharmaceutical science, physics, botany and biology. It would appear that she is credible and what she would have to say is also credible. Can her critics say as much?

Lucky Rescue
October 16th, 2005, 09:45 PM
Dr.Budwig seems to have found not only a cure for cancer, but a cure for just about anything. But I am puzzled as to how someone could have a long and healthy life after having his stomach removed?
-------------------------------------------------------


Dr. Budwig's natural formula has proven successful where many orthodox remedies have failed. Dr. Budwig's formula has been used therapeutically in Europe for prevention of: Cancer! Arteriosclerosis, Strokes, Cardiac Infarction, Heartbeat (irregular), Liver (fatty degeneration), Lungs (reduces bronchial spasms), Intestines (regulates activity). Stomach Ulcers (normalizes gastric juices), Prostate (hypertopic), Arthritis (exerts a favorable influence), Eczema (assists all skin diseases), Old age (improves many common afflictions), Brain (strenghthens activity), Immune Deficiency Syndromes (multiple sclerosis, auto-immune illnesses)

Thousands have flocked 10 hear Dr. Budwig lecture all over Europe. The many people Dr. Budwig's formula has helped testify to the benefits of her remarkable discovery. Following are a few examples: In one of my interviews with Dr. Budwig I was introduced to Siegried Ernst, M.D.. He is a rare and dedicated man who counts among his personal friends the current Pope as well as many other dignitaries.

Seventeen years ago Dr. Ernst had developed cancer for which he had major surgery requiring removal of his stomach. Two years later he had a recurrence of the cancer and was offered chemotherapy as the only available remedy. There was little hope for survival as virtually all individuals with recurrence of this type of cancer rarely last a year.

Dr. Ernst knew that chemotherapy was not only ineffective for his type of cancer but completaly destructive of the quality of life, so he refused.

He turned to Dr. Budwig and her formula for help. He religiously followed Dr. Budwig's formula and fifteen years later has not had any recurrence of cancer. As a matter of fact he seemed to me to be in perfect health and is tireless for a man in his late seventies.

The Budwig Diet by Robert Willner, M.D., Ph.D. (author of The Cancer Solution

Prin
October 16th, 2005, 09:50 PM
It's not sort of like a gastric bypass?

doggirl
October 17th, 2005, 12:06 AM
Another point of view on Johanna Budwig's "cancer cure"...

Does it make sense that a cure for cancer was found over 50 years ago, but nobody has clued into it? Omega 3 EFAs have been recognized for antioxidant properties for some time but IMO it is irresponsible to say they can cure cancer, especially advanced cases. Not only does this give false hope to people who will probably experience more pain as a result, but some people will actually refuse treatment and subsequently die of something that may have been curable, or allow a pet to linger, suffering, because they think that to cure cancer all you have to do is eat flaxseed and cottage cheese with champagne. It also just defies logic that so many researchers would be unable to see a cure if it were there...for over 50 years.

Questionable Cancer Therapies (http://www.clltopics.org/Questionable%20Therapies%20and%20Organizations.htm )

Quacks, Snake Oil and the Terrible Harm They Do
10/26/02
by Chaya Venkat

I though I would publish the following email I sent to a friend, since it spells out exactly what I think of quacks like Hulda Clark, Johanna Budwig and their "magic cures".

... sorry to tell you I do not think highly of Johanna Budwig. Her emphasis on Flax seed oil and cottage cheese would be fine with me, if she said they were good nutritional supplements, which they are. Flax seed oil is very rich in omega fatty oils, as is fish oil from cold water fish, and good for controlling unwanted weight loss problems in cancer patients. (Please see my recent article on "cachexia" or unwanted weight loss in cancer patients). Cottage cheese is high protein food, as is well known to most of us. But to claim that these food nutritional supplements somehow change the course of cancer, actually cure the disease, is extremely irresponsible. If you want to read more about these absurd claims, here is the link: Budwig.. Any number of desperate people buy these completely unfounded claims and waste their money and precious time chasing after these snake oil claims, to the detriment of pursuing more realistic options. As for being nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize, I suppose any one can be nominated, all it takes is one fan to do it. I doubt Budwig will ever get the Nobel Prize, no matter how often she is nominated.

I am a fan of the show "Law & Order". I watched a recent re-run episode, which involved the death of several breast cancer patients. A quack doctor prescribed them a potion concocted from various health food items, including ground up apricot pits (link: Laetrile), with the promise of a cure that does not need patients to make the hard choices of surgery, radiation or chemotherapy. A lot of the women die, a lot sooner and many more of them, than would have if they had availed themselves of more conventional therapies. The quack "doctor" gets tried for murder, successfully.

This is obviously fiction, but in my mind, not far from the truth. When I hear about Hulda Clark (http://www.drhuldaclark.org/) and her magic cures, Rife machines (Rife) and now, Johanna Budwig, I wonder how these people sleep at night, how they face themselves in the mirror in the morning, knowing the incredible harm they are doing, the large number of people they con into following their incredible claims.

As for homeopathy, my grandfather (mother's father) was a homeopathy doctor in India, way back in my childhood. Because of this connection, and because I grew up in India for the first 21 years of my life, I am quite familiar with the concepts and theories involved. I do not know of any serious homeopathy practitioner that claims it can cure cancers, caused by deep seated and very real genetic and chromosomal mutations. Like it or not, people, there is a physical reality to the basis of cancer, and it needs to be addressed in the real world, with real choices made based on solid clinical information. Are there drugs out there that we have not discovered yet, drugs based on herbs and the like used by ethnic practitioners of medicine? Very probably. Several of them, such as Genistein (from soy beans) and Curcumin (turmeric extract) and flavonols / catechins from green tea extracts are undergoing testing. Some of these may someday become incorporated as adjuvants to conventional drugs, or stand alone chemo-prevention drugs. Many of these are available in health food stores across the country. Some are relatively benign, some can be dangerous as hell. If you are inclined to experiment, here is a website that can help guide you a little, spell out the possible risks and rewards: Supplementwatch. Please be aware that many of these supplements have unexpected and dangerous interactions with other drugs you may be taking. You really should be checking with your doctor, bring to her/his attention all of the over-the-counter medications and supplements you are taking.

doggirl
October 17th, 2005, 12:10 AM
Dr.Budwig seems to have found not only a cure for cancer, but a cure for just about anything. But I am puzzled as to how someone could have a long and healthy life after having his stomach removed?

Johanna Budwig is a woman, and it was this Dr. Ernst who reportedly had his stomach removed.

CyberKitten
October 17th, 2005, 12:18 AM
Dr. Budwig is well known to oncologists and from what I gather a very nice lady - also very smart! She has a PhD in Physical Science (some web sites say biochem but that was not actually a subject in and of itself when she went to university - something I know something about so I am impressed with her. (I also have a PhD in biochem so I have read at length about women in the field) She was nominated by various groups for a Nobel Prize 7 times but her work has never really been peer reviewed among independent sources. Personally, I would venture to say her unorthodox methods and work out of the mainstream almost make it certain she will not be awarded that coveted prize. One has to wonder whether her gender has anything to do with it but that is a seperate issue.

She never promised a cure though. She herself says that her primary finding is the correlation of healthy people and high levels of omega 3 fatty oils. She also says the best source of this is flax seed. She also found that many people with cancer (the sample in her study at least) had extremely low levels of phosphatides and lipoproteins. Some have touted it as the Cancer Free Diet but that is surely stretching the imagination and I think she'd agree.

I think wikipedia effectively summarizes how I feel about her work:

"Most oncologists and cancer researchers do not believe that dietary changes alone can be used to treat advanced cancer. Reports of dramatic remissions as a result of the Budwig diet are anecdotal, and not supported by peer-reviewed research. Nevertheless, the Budwig diet is relatively sound from a nutritional standpoint, and is likely to do no harm as an adjuvant to conventional cancer therapy."

doggirl
October 17th, 2005, 12:26 AM
That sounds like a reasonable and rational approach. I hate the thought of people being given false hope. It's human nature to cling to any shred of hope there is in the face of disaster, and my heart goes out to those who will suffer more or longer because they were desperate and wanted it to be true.

Lucky Rescue
October 17th, 2005, 09:00 AM
Johanna Budwig is a woman, and it was this Dr. Ernst who reportedly had his stomach removed

Yes, I know. My post does say it was Dr. Ernst who supposedly had his stomach removed yet continued to live.

CyberKitten
October 17th, 2005, 02:41 PM
Meanwhile, back to the issue at hand - which is this dog's health!! Have you considered a 2nd opinon? I do not know enough about poisons and dogs (I used to be more aware of that when I had a dog but that has been awile) but you might consult someone about it or do more research on the topic. I do hope you find more info and help for Sara!! Take care!!

justncase
October 17th, 2005, 03:14 PM
For those who are incensed at " false promises" and " false claims" , some additional information:

The Politics of Cancer Revisited by Samuel S. Epstein

"The National Cancer Institute and the American Cancer Society have misled and confused the public and Congress by repeated false claims that we are winning the war against cancer -- claims made to create public and Congressional support for massive increases in budgetary appropriations." Dr. Epstein
For the first time, the American public will find out the truth behind the much-acclaimed "War Against Cancer" in a thoroughly documented expose of the policies and priorities of the cancer establishment -- the National Cancer Institute (NCI) and the American Cancer Society (ACS). "THE POLITICS OF CANCER Revisited"challenges misleading claims that we have "turned the tide against cancer" and shows how the establishment is largely responsible for losing the winnable war against cancer. With equal accuracy and vigor, the book provides vital information -- long ignored or trivialized by the cancer establishment -- on a wide range of avoidable causes of cancer and on how readers and their families can protect themselves against cancer. "The book is available at Amazon.com

"A unique and superbly documented indictment of the National Cancer Institute and the American Cancer Society for their reckless indifference to cancer prevention, for their incestuous relationship with the cancer drug industry, and for their false claims for miracle cancer drugs and for winning the war against cancer. This is essential reading for every concerned woman and man on how to reverse the cancer epidemic by personal and political initiatives." Barbara Seaman, Co-founder, National Women's Health Network and author, "The Doctors' Case Against the Pill"


Also:

Alternative Therapy for Our Animals
Read about FDA's alledged abuse of power toward pet store owner who supplied litterature claiming that vitamins would keep pets healthy. The article, written by James DeMeo, Ph.D. can be found at The FDA - Who Do They Really Protect?(http://www.orgonelab.org/fda.htm) Anti-Constitutional Activities and Abuse of Police Power by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and other Federal Agencies


For those incensed at what harm, flaxseed oil and cottage cheese could inflict:

A half terabyte of good cancer information gone bad - Computerworld
A half terabyte of good cancer information gone bad Q&A by Bruce Hoard. JULY 27, 2004 ... t have any stomach lining left because the chemo ate it...
www.computerworld.com/printthis/2004/0,4814,94819,00.html

Questioning Chemotherapy: A Critique of the Ue of Toxic drugs in the Treatment of Cancer :Ralph W. Moss, Ph.D.

"I started as a believer in chemotherapy. As a science writer at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center in New York, I wrote articles praising the latest advances in chemotherapy. Because chemotherapy drugs were general cellular poisons, they could be terribly toxic. They were also very expensive for patients and for society as a whole. When I learned about the links between the pharmaceutical industry and the cancer establishment (later detailed in my book, The Cancer Industry) I understood the commercial reason that such an inadequate modality was so heavily promoted." Ralph W. Moss, Ph.D.

What if the Cure is Also the Cause - The International Agency for Research on Cancer -- part of the World Health Organization -- lists nine chemotherapy drugs and two "combinational therapies" as known human carcinogens. Another nine drugs are listed as "probable" and 10 as "possible" carcinogens. Chemotherapy -- the use of potent drugs to kill cancerous cells -- is more than 60 years old. The first such drugs were nitrogen mustards, originally developed as chemical warfare agents. Modern chemotherapy drugs are so strong, by necessity, that they can cause secondary cancers in patients; to a healthy person, they're poison. For decades, experts say, most health care workers were oblivious to the risks posed to them by these and other drugs, which attack good cells as well as bad. By the 1970s, The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) says in its alert, "the carcinogenicity of several [chemotherapy] drugs in animals was well established. Likewise, a number of researchers during this period linked the therapeutic use of [certain drugs] in humans to subsequent leukemia and other cancers. Many in health care began to question whether occupational exposure to these agents was hazardous." Last March, the federal government issued an unusually detailed alert to the nation's 5.5 million health care workers: The powerful drugs used in chemotherapy can themselves cause cancer and pose a risk to nurses, pharmacists and others who handle them. A housekeeper who dumps the contents of a bedpan into a toilet might not realize that the waste is toxic. "Sometimes, 80 percent of the active ingredient [in a drug] goes right through the patient's system," said Borwegen, who also served on the NIOSH work group The Washington Post Tuesday, February 15, 2005; Page HE01

For those incensed at the offering of false hopes and false promises, the above may provide you with a starting point to express that outrage and disgust.

doggy lover
October 17th, 2005, 03:43 PM
I'm sorry to hear about you dog, but if your dog is suffering now it is time to let her go. Dogs don't let you know that they are sick until they are really sick. My dog was pts due to bone cancer last year, yes we were given many options none of which would have given him much more time or any quality of life. Last year I also lost my grandmother to cancer, it was a slow death of starvation and dehydration. If I could have given her a needle myself I would have, no one or pet should have to suffer, when the outcome in the end will be the same. I would have done anything to have saved them, but in life we all die from something very few die of old age. Your dog is 12 she has had a good life, maybe its time to let her go. I would get a second opinion, but as for a cure there is none. If you wish to have surgery, find out before you have it done what kind of life or length of life your dog will have after it, and make your mind up after that what you are going to do. My thoughts are with you, this is a hard choice that you will have to make, I have never regretted putting Travis to sleep. It was very peaceful.

Beetlecat
October 17th, 2005, 04:01 PM
Yes, I know. My post does say it was Dr. Ernst who supposedly had his stomach removed yet continued to live.

:sorry: this is off topic but I have to interject

I know a woman who has had systemic sclerosis all her life (she recently celebrated her 50th birthday). It's an autoimmune disease which slowly overlays connective tissue throughout the body, hardening a person's insides and internal organs.

Her stomach has been removed due to this. She is also missing a good length of her large intestine and rectum as well as other organs.

It is still possible to live a fine life with no stomach, it simply means that the person has to eat small, easily digestible meals often, as the food cannot be held in the stomach to be digested slowly, it now goes straight into the intestine (they basically attach the small intestine to the esophogas).

She also drinks lots and lots of pop to provide the acid to break down food.


As for Sara, I can only suggest doing what seem right to you and for her. You will know if or when it is time to put her down. For now, I see no problem with trying whatever you think might help. There are miracles everyday.

Lucky Rescue
October 17th, 2005, 04:54 PM
It is still possible to live a fine life with no stomach,

Ohmy! That's what I was wondering about. Thanks.

notoriousof5
October 23rd, 2005, 11:02 PM
Hi all, sorry I haven't posted in a while but been busy. I do believe Sara is doing better, she is barking (even though weak) and is standing up much better. She still is down in alot of weight but she has now started to eat her dog food, small portions at a time and we try to feed her several meals a day. She is still very alert and I do believe she is playing up with the sympathy part a bit. She lets out a little whimper when she wants to get up then she lifts up her head and looks at you. If you don't get up within a minute she lets out a loud yelp while looking right at you and as soon as you stand her up she trots off to the back door and runs outside (she even tried chasing down my mom's cat today outside). I still haven't noticed any swelling in the abdomen area and it isn't tender to touch. There are still no other signs of illness and she seems to be improving (i hope), even close friends and family seem to notice her improvement. Once again I thank you all for your support and info as it is truly appreciated. :pawprint:

HaleyBug
October 23rd, 2005, 11:26 PM
I thought you might be interested in these testimonials:

Subject: Dog cured of histiocytic sarcoma
Date: Sun, 3 March 2004
From: George Catandella
Flaxseed oil and cottage cheese saved Maggie's life. She had a histiocytic sarcoma, multilobular, multimodular, focal splenic mass. Maggie is a 6 lb Maltese that was given 3 months to live (with chemo) after removing the mass. We chose not to give her chemo, but the flaxseed oil & low-fat cottage cheese instead. One year has passed and she behaves like a healthy, happy pup. Her vet is amazed as are we.

.


I am first to say if it doesnt hurt try however, just to let you know I myself have cancer and it is a sarcoma and I heard the same bs on our sites (if it were true trust me someone on our site would have let us know..)
I am really sorry to hear about Sassy Sara. I would get a second opinion with a vet you feel comfortable with and speak of your questions and concerns with him/her...

CyberKitten
October 24th, 2005, 02:00 AM
Notorious, I am glad to hear she seems to be doing OK. I hope you will enjoy her presence - pain free!! - for some time to come!!! Short meals are an excellent way for dogs (and people for that matter - having been there myself) who have difficulty eating or have no appetite to get nutrition - other than more drastic measures like TPN, IV's and other artoficial methods and again, I personally have been thru them all. Does the vet suspect metasasis to the stomach? Or has that shown up on the diagnostic images? Of course, cancer of the spleen can affect her nutrition all by itself as you well know by now.

I don't want to veer the topic from Sara's health but wanted to remark on some of the comments made around your own comments and cancer of the spleen - which just concerned me a bit. Ok, more than a bit. :(

Re: the comment "Last year I also lost my grandmother to cancer, it was a slow death of starvation and dehydration. If I could have given her a needle myself". I don't know if we can ever decide that for others doggy, as difficult as that may be. I say that as someone who has suffered - and I do mean suffered (the memory pains me just to write about it!) from dehydration and starvation. I had most of my stomach removed and spent over a month in the ICU with TPN (Total Nutrition - a central line is inserted and one obtains nutrients that way) and a neogastric tube in place for 4 months. (There is much more than that but it is too complicated and this is bout Sara, not me) It was a horrible way to live, never mind I almost died several times but fortunately no one was willing to give up on me and neither was I. Now mind you I had indicated clearly on my chart what my wishes were. I still suffer chronic pain - which never really ever ever abates and there are days I wonder about life and death. But I have my work/research and my kitties and my family and friends and they keep me going. I too lost my grandmother to cancer and she was at a point where she had literally given up. I can understand your feelings if that was the way your grandmother felt but if she, like me, wanted to fight till the end - as many ppl do (and I have seen almost every reaction to death - tho every so often I am surprised by yet another approach). I guess I am saying it is up to the person who has cancer - if they want to fight it aggressively, that is their decision. I do know others who have opted for no aggressive therapy at all and that is valuable for them. We are all unique and even make different decisions at different times. Pain takes its toll and were I advised that I have cancer again, I sometimes wonder if I would fight as hard as before. At the moment, I'd say yes but if I was older, who knows?

It is all very personal and sometimes we have to let loved ones make decisions we do not agree with, as difficult as that is. I even have a good friend - a pjsyician - who was prosecuted (sometimes I think it is persecuted) because she agreed to a patient's wishes regarded end of life issues. The man was eduring intractable pain. She went thru the court process and is back at work but it certainly brought home for us (myself and other colleagues) the difficulties we cope with daily in treating people with cancer.

And yes, people can very much have life after most of their stomach of even all of it is removed. It is not at all uncommon even. (Or maybe in my life it is not).

Anyway, sorry to have veered off. There are so many different kinds of cancer and so many varied experiences that it is impossible to take one's own experience and utilize it for someone else. It just does not work.

Dogs and cats have shown remarkable resiliance in coping with cancer - in spite of the above comments , have you spoken to others who are going thru this with their pets? I do know every diagnosis is different tho and you have to make the best decision for your beloved Sara. I rather think she will guide you in that - and that you will know, since you seem to understand her needs so well.

I will keep you and Sara in my thoughts!

Prin
October 24th, 2005, 02:17 AM
I am first to say if it doesnt hurt try however, just to let you know I myself have cancer and it is a sarcoma and I heard the same bs on our sites (if it were true trust me someone on our site would have let us know..)
I'm sorry for your cancer. It must be so patronizing to be living with such a horrible thing and then have people tell you there are miracle cures everywhere. :sad: I hope you are ok. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

doggirl
October 24th, 2005, 01:08 PM
Ditto to what Prin said. My thoughts are with you Haleybug.

doggirl
October 24th, 2005, 01:51 PM
I am first to say if it doesnt hurt try however, just to let you know I myself have cancer and it is a sarcoma and I heard the same bs on our sites (if it were true trust me someone on our site would have let us know..)

This was in response to the following,

"Subject: Dog cured of histiocytic sarcoma
Date: Sun, 3 March 2004
From: George Catandella
Flaxseed oil and cottage cheese saved Maggie's life. She had a histiocytic sarcoma, multilobular, multimodular, focal splenic mass. Maggie is a 6 lb Maltese that was given 3 months to live (with chemo) after removing the mass. We chose not to give her chemo, but the flaxseed oil & low-fat cottage cheese instead. One year has passed and she behaves like a healthy, happy pup. Her vet is amazed as are we."

What weight does this have? Diagnoses/prognoses are often incorrect. Patients don't always die when their doctor GUESSES they may, in fact sometimes they don't even have what the doctor thought they did. So patients sometimes recover where it wasn't thought they would. What does this have to do with the fact that they ate cottage cheese and flaxseed oil at some point?

Just curious if these are cure-alls does this mean that anyone who eats cottage cheese and flaxseed oil won't get cancer? Because I've known many animals with cancer including some that were being fed elaborate raw, organic, antioxidant-rich diets.

I've also known many animals who didn't died when they were supposed to who didn't eat cottage cheese and flaxseed oil. Could I correctly conclude that they recovered because they didn't eat cottage cheese and flaxseed oil? How can an owner figure they are qualified to determine what caused a disease to go the course as it did in their dog?

Testamonials like this are wonderful to hear but worthless from an evidentiary standpoint. As I've already said I actually think they can be harmful because there are always people who want to believe there are cures, and they may delay or refuse proven treatment as a result.

Prin
October 24th, 2005, 08:41 PM
I'd really rather hear that "a friend of a friend" had something work for them than some website that could be indirectly funded by somebody who profits from the info... JMO

CyberKitten
October 25th, 2005, 01:35 AM
I agree with you doggirl. I am alarmed when I see things like that not just because one's person's experience with a medication - even a conventional one that is a known quantity - is not the same as someone else's nor does it take into account the history of that particular patient(person) or the reader. I actually hate testimonials about anything, no matter what it is.

And most marketing ppl know (not my forte but the medical society offered a session on marketing for those of us who run an office - like I need that with the shortage of oncologists!!) that testimonials are ineffective tools in advertising because people may associate with the product with someone they dislike (political ads where someone endorses a candidate comes to mind. What about all the ppl who dislike the person doing the endorsement?), they are completely out of tune with evidence based medicine - never mind double blind peer reviewed objective scientific studies and the narratives provided by the person providing the so called "testimony" diverges from the actual product.

But I especially loathe them when it comes to products that claim to help or cure cancer. We have made a lot of progress in cancer research - with certain cancers (this product seems to not even notice that cancer is not just one monolithic disease - it is a plethora of varying types of similar disease patterns and processes, no two exactly the same - tho obviously they share characteristics). It plays on people's emotions and desperation and there are few things as low as that! Sighhhhhhh!!

doggirl
October 25th, 2005, 12:44 PM
So well said CyberKitten...I've been through cancer with pets and not only is there that "slap in the face" element (crappy owner I am - she'd still be here if I'd just given her cottage cheese and flaxseed oil), but it's just bad science. In fact it's not science. In my opinion those sort of things are about as reliable as emails you get where Bill Gates himself is going to send you a check for $2000 if you forward this email to everyone you know. It's just got no value.

Never mind the fact that as you said, testimonials are one person's one experience, and often the person just has no qualifications to even comment. Because you own this dog what was "cured" does not make you at all qualified to reach medical conclusions.

doggirl
October 25th, 2005, 12:53 PM
I'd really rather hear that "a friend of a friend" had something work for them than some website that could be indirectly funded by somebody who profits from the info... JMO

Everything is funded though. I am a reasonably educated and intelligent person and I have heard anecdotal stories that I'm sorry but I do not believe have any basis in truth. Maybe it's because I speak to people daily who want to get rid of pets and I hear people lie, lie, lie. In most cases though I think they believe it's the truth. People do believe what they want to. If someone told you that cancer can be cured at that vulnerable time when you've just had a diagnosis close to home, your perception of truth is going to be altered. Denial is a very big part of the grief process and one I'm familiar with in my field, and it is enormous. As is non-acceptance.

I have told people anecdotal stories occasionally, eg a large-scale rescue where the animals were all fed the same diet and they were all in unusually great physical condition (to the point of getting age estimates half of what the actual ages were - by experienced people). The rare times I tell people experiences I've had I am always VERY clear that this is anecdotal and doesn't mean anything - it just gets my attention re this food or whatever. There are statistical formulas that can calculate how many instances of something would need to occur for it to be significant or valid. One story really means little, heck in many cases even a couple hundred is just not enough of a sample size for any significant results.

doggy lover
October 25th, 2005, 01:01 PM
Cyberkitten, I understand where you are comming from, if it was me I'd personally try everything to stay alive or if it was one of my children. But my Nan was 85 and of sound mind and NO one told her she was going to die, which I feel was wrong. The doctors and family made all the desions for her, and no one would tell her. I would have told her but that would have made a family war, they put a feed line into her and the nurse accidently pulled it out that was in Jan. and it took her until Mar. to pass away, it was point less to put the line back in as it would prolong the outcome. I work with elderly and have seen many die slowly, as I'm sure you have with childern. The only thing with children you try until there are no options left, with seniors they are old and they are going to die soon anyways (thats how so many people feel) but alot of them are never given the chance to make up their mind what is to be done with them that is up to the family. I'v seen feeding tubes being put into someone who is in their 90's because families want it, if they are of sound mind it should be up to them. We pts our pets when the outcome will be death and they will suffer, I just wish we could do it for people who wish to have their life end peacefully. I know many people don't believe in the right to die but I do.

Lucky Rescue
October 25th, 2005, 01:03 PM
It plays on people's emotions and desperation and there are few things as low as that!

So true. I watched my husband die of cancer. I'm sure if there were some simple miracle cure out there, the doctors may have let us in on the secret. I find it difficult to imagine that they are all in some evil conspiracy of silence to let people suffer and die in agony, just to prove a point.

Vague and anonymous reports of miracle cures of fatal disease by people unqualified to produce or substantiate any evidence at all should be regarded in the same way as the claims of faith healers are.