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BC Teachers Strike!

Joey.E.CockersMommy
October 12th, 2005, 09:57 AM
Sort of a rant....
BC Schools are on Strike Now. The teachers organised an illegal walk last Friday and they are expected to be on Strike for this week and possibly longer. If the good old Liberals won't give them a raise. They were offered 0 percent raise for 5 years. Not much of an offer if you ask me.
Now the head of the teachers fed (I should know her name but I do not) Is willing to go to jail for the teachers. Also the teachers can get fined 150,000 a day for the illegal strike. Thats not per teacher thats the whole Teachers Fed. I agree that these teachers should get more money, but it is not fair to our kids that get stuck in the middle. Especially the ones that are in the higher grades, whose time at school is now imperative to get into colleges and universities. - And also the parents that work all day and now have to scramble to find daycare.
We are fortunate that my kids are younger K and grade 2 in the long run they may not be affected by this like the older grades. Also hubby is home during the day so we don't need day care. Yet they should be in school learning and making friends now, not stuck in the middle of a labour dispute.
Either way you look at whether you think the teachers should get more money or not. Its the kids that are paying the price, IMHO that is not very fair to them.

Roxy's_MA
October 12th, 2005, 10:08 AM
So what do the kids think of it? Are they like yay we get a free holiday, or are they upset that they can't go to school?

Joey.E.CockersMommy
October 12th, 2005, 10:12 AM
My seven years old opinion on staying home from school! :D

"It Rocks"

Puppyluv
October 12th, 2005, 10:43 AM
When I was in grade 8 the Alberta Teachers almost striked, and then in grade 11 they actually did. Although everyone enjoyed the firs two or three days off, after three weeks, it was really bad, because of Alberta's required provincial standardized testing. The rest of the year was shot to hell, and our teachers were (rightfully) grumpy; we lost all extra-curricular activities, tutoring, class trips, sports teams, and the grade 12's lost their grad. (I will note that in AB it's not the Liberals causing the strife, but Ralph's PC's).
Anyways, I feel your pain, and the pain that your kids feel (though they may not realize it yet)

jjgeonerd
October 12th, 2005, 11:14 AM
Good for them...teachers are underappreciated and underpaid.

I agree it sucks that the kids and parents are stuck in the middle, but what leverage do the teachers have without striking? Nothing.

If the residents don't like it they should vote representatives in that will treat teachers better and/or approve school bond measures when they come up for a vote. (That's how it works in the US anyways...I'm not sure about Canada politics).

raingirl
October 12th, 2005, 12:35 PM
maybe teachers are under appreciated and underpaid elsewhere in canada, but not here in Ontario. Here they get paid 60K plus to work 7 hours a day, and only 10 months a year. I have no respect for anyone who strikes saying they don't get enough money when they get paid that. I beleive recent stats say that almost 70% of ontario's population makes less than 50K a year, so why should they get more??

I also think that strikes are pointless and annoying, as are unions. I don't agree with them.

Joey.E.CockersMommy
October 12th, 2005, 12:48 PM
Here is an example of why teachers are striking. My son who is speech delayed requires speech therapy. Which we do at home with him on a regular basis but he needs a professional therapist to help him. In our school district in the Okanagan there is one therapist for the whole region, as there are many speech delayed kids in the school system, as well as other special needs kids that also need assitance. How much assitance will my son get. Its not just the for the teachers its for all services.

Puppyluv
October 12th, 2005, 02:18 PM
maybe teachers are under appreciated and underpaid elsewhere in canada, but not here in Ontario. Here they get paid 60K plus to work 7 hours a day, and only 10 months a year. I have no respect for anyone who strikes saying they don't get enough money when they get paid that. I beleive recent stats say that almost 70% of ontario's population makes less than 50K a year, so why should they get more??

I also think that strikes are pointless and annoying, as are unions. I don't agree with them.

Tell that to my cousin who's a teacher in Ontario and she may just smack you. Not only are their salaries not actually that high, the number of hours outside of the "7 hour work day" are numerous. She is always brining work home, and working into the early morning.
Teachers are our most valuable resource, and saying that they have easy lives is ignorant.

Joey.E.CockersMommy
October 12th, 2005, 02:36 PM
I live a block from my sons school and across the street from the highschool and I pass each school everyday. If they are making such good money, why are they all driving cheaper older model cars. :)

I think teachers deserve a raise and I think kids deserve smaller class sizes. Schools in the smaller communities should remain open as well.

Each teacher that we've known once decided to spend his time and money into going to University to become a teacher. So they could give an opportunity to someone like you,me. and our children. I think its fair that our government gives something back to them. Without them where would a lot of us be right now.

Roxy's_MA
October 12th, 2005, 02:38 PM
I have to agree that they don't seem that well off. I do think it is more important to first focus on smaller class sizes and making sure the children have the resources needed, and second focus on the teachers salary.

Dog Dancer
October 12th, 2005, 05:42 PM
One day Raingirl may have children and will then understand how much more than 7 hours per day teachers put in. Who coaches the sports teams before and after school (you know so your kids don't get obese, or so they can get a college scholarship), who teaches the evening band classes? Monitors the playgrounds, etc.??? My son's teachers went WAAAAY beyond the 7 hours a day, as do the few people I know personally who are teachers. Our government imposed their last contract with no increase and now they've imposed this contract. If you think that getting rid of the Union's is a good thing, then wait and see what would happen to your wages without the Union's pushing to maintain a decent wage rate in all kinds of areas. Our hospital unions had contracts imposed and higher paid staff laid off and replaced with cheap labour and now we have infections running rampant in almost every emergency ward it seems - the horror stories about that are abundant. I don't know about you in Ontario, but my cost of living has gone up way more than my wages have over the past few years. I say teachers are too valuable a resourse to not pay them what they're worth. Plus the teachers aren't just looking for wages, they're fighting for more teachers assistants and smaller classes in general. This isn't just about the teachers, it's about a government who doesn't value education in general. Sometimes you have to stand up for what you believe in - that's not a bad lesson to teach our children either!! Jinny Sims is willing to go to jail for her beliefs and we should all feel so strongly about standing up for our children.

Catt31
October 12th, 2005, 08:39 PM
Ohhhhhh boy!!! I may get booted for this...but it is hard for me to bite my tongue!!! I just MIGHT smack her, Puppyluv!!!

I am a teacher and FYI Raingirl, I work about 12 hours a day, 7 days a week (sometimes more). Teaching does not STOP at 3:00 when the bell goes and the kids go home, and it does not start right at 8:30 when the kids come in the school. What about the meetings, inservices, coaching, clubs, supervision, extra help at recess & lunch & after school, marking, planning, report cards, IPP's, ISP's, field trip forms, phone calls to parents or other people in the district, fighting with social services to get help for the hundreds of kids who are struggling to learn English, or who are being abused at home (shall I go on??). I bring work home on the weekends, I work at night, and I work during my lunch breaks! And for children like Joey's son.....they slip through the cracks because there isn't enough "funding" ,or assistants, or therapists, or whatever.....but it is sad! These children need help, and dedicated teachers (not all mind you) will stay in at recess & help these kids, give them the extra attention they deserve. I NEVER have a spare moment during my day because of this. Our # of teaching assistants was cut in HALF with about 87% of our population being ESL students!! Who's going to help these children? Our school is FULL of immigrants who have come from Sudan. The horror they have seen, the trauma they are going through, the lack of education & social skills are ALL things that we deal with on a daily basis. People who are not involved in the school do not see this.....have children RainGirl......maybe your eyes will open!!!

We are teachers, counsellors, parents, nurses, and friends to say the least, to these children. As for respecting people who make more than $50,000 who TEACH the future of our country, doesn't say a whole lot for you! :mad: That comment was VERY disrespectful & I am very offended! I agree strikes are not fair to the children but like jj said, vote in someone that will back their teachers. In Alberta, the recent strike was NOT about money, it was about class size and resources. It is very hard to teach when there are 3 Grade 3 classes sharing 25 textbooks!!! Next to impossible! Does the public ever hear things from a teachers point of view? NO! The media makes it all sound like its about the money! Does anyone ever hear about the money that teachers put into their class with their OWN money? stickers, books, prizes, treats, parties, rewards, et....alll that comes out of OUR pockets! Clearly my choice but how else do you enhance the education of young minds and make learning fun?

As for the working 10 months a year, go and spend a week in a busy classroom! It is physically, mentally & spiritually draining. We get that time off to recoup for the new year, and to make up for the MANY extra hours we put in during the school year. I'm totally behind Jinny......if only we could all have such big balls!!!! I hope she is able to get what her teachers deserve! Maybe that will open up the eyes of Klein....bahh, who am I kidding!!

Well, that was a rant! Touchy subject Raingirl, and you said ALL the wrong things!!! I'm happy to read other posts that are supportive of teachers...it isn't an easy job...and believe me, I don't do it for the money! Thank you to those who support teachers & teaching assistants!! We couldn't do the job without them!!! And to those who think teachers make too much money....can I trade my bills & student loan payments with you???

Joey.E.CockersMommy
October 12th, 2005, 09:26 PM
Catt31= We are teachers, counsellors, parents, nurses, and friends to say the least, to these children.

that is so true, all the teachers, assistants, vice principal and principal know my son by his first name. They make a point to talk to him and see how his day is going.

Prin
October 12th, 2005, 09:41 PM
maybe teachers are under appreciated and underpaid elsewhere in canada, but not here in Ontario. Here they get paid 60K plus to work 7 hours a day, and only 10 months a year. I have no respect for anyone who strikes saying they don't get enough money when they get paid that. I beleive recent stats say that almost 70% of ontario's population makes less than 50K a year, so why should they get more??

I also think that strikes are pointless and annoying, as are unions. I don't agree with them.
Sorry to jump on the bandwagon, but I have to agree with Catt on this one. These people are shaping young lives. A lot of kids end up following the career of their most memorable teacher or prof, not the overworked one who has lost all enthusiasm for their job. Why should a MP get hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to work a few months? Seems to me they aren't nearly as single-handedly responsible for lives every day.

Maybe 70% don't get more than 50K, but how many of those are university graduates? How many of those are actually doing a job that is changing things and is helping people?

I know here in Qc, there are a lot of teachers making under $40 000 a year. Every good teacher I have ever had has been beaten down so much they lost all their reasons to teach. I've had so many teachers have breakdowns, including my friend's mom... She's the tough French teacher, the teacher they dread, and by the end of the year, she can't even keep her hands steady.

It's a hard job and I'm glad somebody has the cahones to step up to the plate and do it. We need teachers more than anybody else. How will you get doctors and businessmen if they all flunk out of school?

Dog Dancer
October 13th, 2005, 11:05 AM
You know last night I was feeling a bit guilty for jumping on Raingirl, just a bit mind you. Then I got to thinking... In Ontario many dog owners are refusing to muzzle their pitts because they don't believe in the law - It's unjust so you stand up and defy it. All across Canada many dog owners let their dogs run free in the city parks - in defiance of the leash laws - because they don't believe in them and their dogs deserve it. Kinda made me shake my head that we, as responsible pet owners, will stand up to defend our dogs rights then get mad at the teachers who want to stand up against a law that they feel is unjust towards our kids and themselves. Just a thought... I'm behind the teachers and our children 100%.

raingirl
October 13th, 2005, 11:49 AM
Don't worry guys, you didn't offend me. I've heard it all. I see that none of you are in Ontario, so maybe it's quite different here.

I actually worked in schools with children for more than 10 years, so I do know it from both angles. I have been in a class room. I have put my money into thing. I worked as TA's, in day care, coaching, tutoring, etc. Yet, all the teachers I worked under up and left as soon as the kids were gone home (4 pm at latest).

Heck, I almost went to teachers college. I have a lot of friends who are teachers, and in Ontario it's a "cop out" to become a teacher, because it's considered easy work and good pay. everyone I know who teaches constantly brags about their pay and how easy it is, and how they would rather teach because they would never find a job that great for that pay. My friend just graduated last year, got her first job somewhere (can't remember where in Ontario), and her starting pay was $55,000.00!! And she gets paid overtime for extra-curriculars and such if she decides to do them! I beleive she is a highschool teacher, teaches 3 periods a day, gets one off for lunch, and one off for prep, which she says is enough. She is actually forbidden from bringing work home due to privacy laws now (nothing with student's names on them can leave school premises). I'm sure she is not the only one in a position like that. If her contract is the same as most of the teachers in ontario, then I would say that's pretty sweet. She has classes of about 20 to 25, which I beleive is a good size.

I know in other areas the systems are worse. That's why I said I was speaking for Ontario. I don't know what it's like where you are, and teachers where you are could be working 80 hours a week for 20K. I just don't know.

I was just saying that I think that 60K a year to work 7 hours a day (as per contract) with 2 months off is a little excessive for me, especially when the teachers get overtime to work outside that, and don't have to participate in extra-curiculars if they don't want, and aren't allowed to bring documents home (like tests to mark, ect).

And all the teachers here, they drive lexus's and Audi's and large SUV's. It's sad to see actually. All the strikes in Ontario are just for money. They are all money hungry and it *appears* they could care less about the students.

And all the people I know went to teachers college specifically because it was easy money. Most got paid so much that they are able to pay off their student loans in a year (40 grand plus for some schools). Some Ontario students are so desperate to get into these great paying easy jobs that they are going to Buffalo USA for teacher's college, as they give Canadian certificates allowing them to teach here. It cost a lot, but because they get paid well, they pay it off fast.

I also just don't agree with unions and strikes in general, and there is nothing that can change my mind about that. I beleive that all people should get raises based on inflation, cost of living, effort, and promotions, and not just because their job is harder. I believe each industry should have a "minimum wage" structure, with constant raises each year to reflect cost of living. It sucks that it has to be Unions that implement these, when it should be our government doing this. That is what they do in many European countries. You could be a chef or a construction worker, and you each get the same start pay as an entry level and move up based on experience and age. Minimums are set (which are more than acceptable to live on), and then the employer can choose to increase it from there if they want.

I just scoured the web and found some documents. They want 2.5% increase per year for 3 years. Why do they need that? That's insane! No job increases that much in pay each year! At least all the ones I know about. In most jobs you are lucky if you get an increase in pay once in 5 years (at least in my experience, which may be limited, but in the two long terms jobs I had of 5 years and 3 years, I got a raise once in each job!). If I were a teacher, I would rather take the no increase for 3 years if it meant more services being added. I know in Ontario the reason so many services have been cut is because the teachers get paid too much and the taxes don't cover it.

As far as I see it, you can't have a salary increase AND bring back needed services. The reason the needed services are cut is because there isn't enough money in the budgets to pay employees. After paying the employees, what is left over goes to services. Therefore they have to reduce staff to cover expenses. It's a circular arguement.

If some of the Ontario teachers would take a pay cut, working conditions would improve.

jjgeonerd
October 13th, 2005, 12:15 PM
I just scoured the web and found some documents. They want 2.5% increase per year for 3 years. Why do they need that? That's insane! No job increases that much in pay each year! At least all the ones I know about. In most jobs you are lucky if you get an increase in pay once in 5 years (at least in my experience, which may be limited, but in the two long terms jobs I had of 5 years and 3 years, I got a raise once in each job!). If I were a teacher, I would rather take the no increase for 3 years if it meant more services being added. I know in Ontario the reason so many services have been cut is because the teachers get paid too much and the taxes don't cover it.



2.5% increase per year is tiny. That is barely a cost of living increase. If that is all I got I would start looking for another job pronto. In my experience yearly pay increases are very reasonable and expected. $55,000/yr Canadian doesn't seem all that high to me. What is that, like $40,000-$43,000/per year US. Not poverty level, but surely not high...especially for someone who attended college and is entrusted with educating the future leaders of your country.

Keep in mind my whole argument is based on workers who pull their share. Slackers don't deserve raises IMO.

raingirl
October 13th, 2005, 12:29 PM
Then what the heck am I doing in my job? I have a BSc and don't get paid near that much!

Unfortunately, I am not the only one in this position, which is why a lot of people I know are going to teachers college, because it pays better then what recent grads are getting these days, with better working conditions and better hours. At least in Ontario. You are lucky to be getting just 30k with a degree these days. And even those entry level jobs have no increases for the first 3-5 years.

Puppyluv
October 13th, 2005, 01:21 PM
Then what the heck am I doing in my job? I have a BSc and don't get paid near that much!

That's why it's a BS degree it's a bull-**** degree (Don't freak, I'm on my way to getting one too) But it was made very clear to me when I entered my program that my bachelor's degree would get me to one of three places: 1)Med School 2)Grad School or 3) McDonalds.

The friends you reference, it sure sounds like they're working at private school, because my cousin who teaches in toronto (that would be Ontario) is very interested to find out about these teachers who are making more than her (and all the other teachers she knows) for fewer hours and less work.

jjgeonerd
October 13th, 2005, 01:21 PM
What is your degree in that you get paid so little? I'm a civil (geotechnical) engineer...not bad pay, but not getting rich ether and I make quite a bit more than teachers. I would actually love to teach high school science, but the pay cut would be too large. My wife is an accountant and she just passed me on the pay scale...with less experience and education than I have! :(

I do agree that teacher's work schedule is nice...even if they do work 10 hours per day during school. Having 2-3 months off in the summer, and a couple weeks at Christmas would be great!

I don't believe all BS degrees are worthless...just depends what the field is.

Prin
October 13th, 2005, 02:13 PM
I don't believe all BS degrees are worthless...just depends what the field is. I agree. That's why my friend and I agreed that if we're ever premier of Qc, we're going to heavily subsidize the programs that lead to jobs that need people rather than subsidize all the programs equally.

Joey.E.CockersMommy
October 13th, 2005, 10:47 PM
http://www.vernonmorningstar.com/

Here is a link to our local paper. So far there is no end in sight. Mike De Jong really rubs me the wrong way. What I think is unfair is the unwillingess to negogiate at all. It looks my kids will be home yet another day. :(

Prin
October 13th, 2005, 10:52 PM
Did they win the verdict today?

Roxy's_MA
October 14th, 2005, 09:46 AM
I heard on the National new yesterday, that the teachers are not even going to be able to collect strike pay, so the financial burden of the strike will fall on the teachers shoulders. I hope they can reach an agreement soon!