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Liberal finanace minister

seeker
October 12th, 2005, 07:13 AM
This morning it was announced that Greg Sorbara resignated his position of Finance Minister . In rank of party members he was second only to Dalton .
This is just another clear example of the amount of lies and deciet that goes on behind closed doors with these people in order to attain their positions of power .This is not just a glitch for the Liberals the investigation is headed by the RCMP and the resignation occured hours after the raid on Mr Sorbara's family owned offices into allegation of some crooked land deal.
"My the tumbling of this inept goverment continue until the fall of 2007"

twodogsandacat
October 12th, 2005, 07:41 AM
It's all downhill from here for the McGuinty government as they pass the halfway mark on their one term tour. On the upside for those that want these liars out (because he will blow this portfolio too) Sorbara will be replaced by Dwight Duncan. How comforting that the man that couldn't see a hydro deficit coming has been put in charge of finance. Hold onto your cheque books people. Watch your feet McGuinty as you just handed one of your most incompetent ministers a loaded gun.

On the upside.....I can't wait until Michael Bryant has to prosecute one of his own.

"Mr. Sorbara is accused of participating in publishing false statements that omitted certain "related-party transactions with intent to induce persons to become shareholders" of Woodbridge-based Royal Group".
http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/toronto/story.html?id=766cc03a-3d72-465e-a470-8c59ac6bc777

Sounds like he'd make a good Liberal. Wait he did. Then again the only good Liberal........

:thumbs up

StaceyB
October 12th, 2005, 08:07 AM
It is about time these people start paying for their crimes.

babyrocky1
October 12th, 2005, 12:00 PM
I caught half of it on the news late last night, all I could do was think of how some OKAY all of the people on this board probably had a HUGE grin on their face LOL! Now all we need is for Bryant to have a day like that!!!!!! :fingerscr

Puppyluv
October 12th, 2005, 03:32 PM
Federal or provincial, a liberal is a liberal is a liberal.......

I have BIG issues with this comment. I was raised a Liberal, and still am one (Yes my family is one of those rare liberal families in Alberta) It drives me crazy how all of you use "Liberal" like it's a four letter word. Do you people honestly think that Steven Harper's Conservatives could do a better job? Or wait, the NDP?!?!? I'm sorry but it is just wrong to blame everything on "The Liberals". If you need to find blame, find it in the individual, not in the party.


:ca: CANADIAN LIBERAL PROUD :ca:

Roxy's_MA
October 12th, 2005, 03:35 PM
I am not a liberal, but this is the way I see it these days a politician is a politician is a politician....

Puppyluv
October 12th, 2005, 03:40 PM
this is the way I see it these days a politician is a politician is a politician....
I have to agree with you on that one

Prin
October 12th, 2005, 04:53 PM
Another political debate? We all know where this goes. What I don't get is it's like sport teams. The 1900 Maple Leafs or whatever win the stanley cup and it goes on record. "This team hasn't won since 1900", well, no wonder- their players are all at least 105 years old. You get it? It's not the same team. I don't understand why the name sticks and the party is made up of different people.

Who do you want to run your country? That's the bottom line. Do I trust Harper? Not as far as I can throw him. There's something in his eyes that is just not right at all. Do I trust Leighton? Nothing has come up to haunt him yet. Martin? Not really. I met him in the elevator and he didn't say a word. That's just weird.

In the end, the principles of the head guy are going to determine what the party fights for, and Harper is not my cup of tea for values and morals at all.

chico2
October 12th, 2005, 05:04 PM
It will be a cold day in hell before I would ever vote for someone like Harper and unless the PC's find a believable replacement,the PC party is going nowhere :thumbs up
I agree,a politician is a politician and belive there is not one single one without some sort of skeleton in the closet.
But I will remain Liberal forever....the lesser of three evil.

Prin
October 12th, 2005, 05:08 PM
But I will remain Liberal forever....the lesser of three evil.
What is evil about the NDP?

Roxy's_MA
October 12th, 2005, 05:12 PM
I could never vote Liberal because of the sheer corruption of their party. I am not a big Harper fan either, but to me he is lesser of two evils. I must admit I find Paul Martin alot more bearable as a pm than Jean Chretien was. At least I not embarressed he is our PM. Now if Ralph Klien ever joined the federal conservates I wouldn't even look at the other candidates.

What can I say I am just another Redneck Albertan PC!

chico2
October 12th, 2005, 05:13 PM
Prin,I have to admit I like the NDP leader(forgot his name?)but Ontario/Canada cannot afford NDP.

twodogsandacat
October 12th, 2005, 05:15 PM
These seventy something Ontario Liberals need to go. They are incompetent liars with no original ideas to improve anything. Kick them all out I say.

Am I anti-Liberal? Yes. After twenty years of supporting Liberals I can say without a doubt that I will never vote for the provincial Liberals again while McGuinty and Bryant are on the ballots. They’re stuck on stupid.

Prin
October 12th, 2005, 05:26 PM
Prin,I have to admit I like the NDP leader(forgot his name?)but Ontario/Canada cannot afford NDP.
He's Jack Leighton. I asked because even though I consider myself pretty informed, I'm still relatively new to politics and I wasn't there when some of the stuff happened. (I was there for Mulroney though, and I watched my dad lose his job of 18 years because of Mulroney...) I know what I don't like at all, but finding things to like in a politician is very hard.

Puppyluv
October 12th, 2005, 05:36 PM
Now if Ralph Klien ever joined the federal conservates I wouldn't even look at the other candidates.

What can I say I am just another Redneck Albertan PC!
AHHHHHHHHHH MY ears!!!!!!! Ralph Klein?!?! :eek: He went from our mayor, to our Premier, and if he ever makes it past that I think I might cry. What a classy man he is... screaming at homeless people to go back to the maritimes... yelling at "drunks" on the street, when it is infact he who is drunk... oh yes he will deffinately unite the country

I have to say though that Harper really creeps me out, Prin's comment about there's "something in his eyes" is exactly how I feel. It seems like there are so many things about him that he's hiding, and are trying to escape.

mastifflover
October 12th, 2005, 05:41 PM
Face it guys all (okay most) politicians are liars and thieves it is one of those things that never changes. I personally feel the NDP is the lesser of the 3 evils you can bet I will not be voting for the liberal dog haters. You can also bet that this will fade away and nothing will happen to Sorba except a nice financial package and don't forget his pension they seem to get cash incentive for being a$$holes and liars and thieves.

Roxy's_MA
October 12th, 2005, 06:03 PM
AHHHHHHHHHH MY ears!!!!!!! Ralph Klein?!?! :eek: He went from our mayor, to our Premier, and if he ever makes it past that I think I might cry. What a classy man he is... screaming at homeless people to go back to the maritimes... yelling at "drunks" on the street, when it is infact he who is drunk... oh yes he will deffinately unite the country

I have to laugh at this, because it is so true. Last I heard he had his drinking under control, I would rather have a drunk than a theif. The fact remains that his gov't makes record landslide majority governments. Don't worry Ralph is retiring before the end of his term you won't see him move any further up the ladder. I must admit Albertans get alot of propoganda put in our faces about how great Alberta is, how it is the richest province in the country and the only debt free province. We are the haves and Ralph and his conservatives take all the credit for it. I cannot see our province being in this position if it was run by the NDP or Liberals.

Most Albertans won't be complaining come January when every man woman and child recieves there $400 rebate cheque in the mail.

Out in the west most people feel completly aleinated by the federal gov't ever since the liberals came into power.

Puppyluv
October 12th, 2005, 06:06 PM
I have to admit, Ralph makes things interesting, and while I'm not fond of him, he has done well for the province.

seeker
October 12th, 2005, 07:17 PM
Twodogs
That is the best poster I have seem since the billboard showing Dalton with a pitbull..

twodogsandacat
October 12th, 2005, 07:53 PM
Twodogs
That is the best poster I have seem since the billboard showing Dalton with a pitbull..
:)
It’s a good day. Live for them.

seeker
October 12th, 2005, 08:07 PM
I know many if not all of us have little or no faith in polititians whether it be federal , provincial , municipal or whatever . If we don't have faith in them it is only because of their own actions and our frustration with not being able to do anything but vote them out after 4 years or so . Most of us have been exposed to and governed by at least 2 of the main parties and "fear like the plague the other one{s}"
How could this be ,why do we have this attitude ?
I think it is mostly because even though it happens everyday and we kind of get used to it , Nobody likes to be lied to on a constant basis nor do we like to hear "plays" on words and so called "lawyer" talk . The twisting of words or phrases to make something sound better than it is .
I for one am sick and tired of politics I wish the whole system would be disolved and government reformed . I would like it to be "For the people" Not for the polititians . Oh but wait didn't they already try that ?
I don't for one second believe that much will change in the cabinets , I don't think any polititian will ever say what he actually thinks over what he/she thinks the people want to hear. I think there are honest polititians but they are doomed to live out there careers as backbenchers that in order to stay in the party have to "vote the party line " often going against what the people they swore to serve wanted and what they really wanted in the first place.
I think the main reason for most of them wanting to get into office is for the contacts , fringe benefits that are carefully kept from public view and the oh so lovely pension that they collect after serving the public and themselves for a relatively short period of time . We have seen so many of them promise the world during an election campaign only to have "read the books wrong" "compile a study to see if what I promised is feasable" " set up a task force to compile recommendations on the subject'" . The list is endless and we have heard way too much of this from all levels of government. All stalling techniques so they can appear to be doing something when in fact they are not .
Now that I have shared some {and I do mean some}of my thought I must say that I do not expect anything to improve in the least in the near or distant future . Hence the frustration .
What can be done about this ? I don't a have sure answer all I can say is when the next election comes around do your homework before voting . Look at the smaller alternative possibly more genuine parties . Make an informed decision when you cast your vote make it not just because you always voted for that certain party but because you actually believe they might do some good . Having said that it was because of me doing it that way that I supported the Dalton gang so it is not infalible.
I now have to go back to the old saying "fool me once shame on you , fool me twice shame on me ."
At this point it looks as if the best move is to just rid the province of Liberals and if I only help to accomplish that in 2007 so beit , that will be enough , we will have moved on to another political "ERA" . Will it be better or worse ? probably a little of both , hopefully the next powers that be will do more of what I want and repeal some of the recent blunders of the present party.it is about the best we can hope for with what we have to work with.

Greg , sorry we all got a little side tracked this post was originally about you then we got talking about lying polititians. {I guess we really didn't get too far off topic afterall because your in that group pretty deep we hear} Anyway have a nice life and don't spend too much of our money defending yourself . Oh should you need a good lawyer give Clayton Ruby a call I hear he does pretty good work .

Prin
October 12th, 2005, 10:55 PM
I just had to add that I believe that the only way you will never go back on your word is if you are always honest. The minute you lie, one day you will have to change your story, no matter how hard you try to fake it.

Georgiapeaches
October 13th, 2005, 12:09 AM
I have been raised in a family that is very pro liberal and supported both the federal and provincial liberals.
Now, I will NEVER find myself voting again for any of this party's members.
I am young and still have many elections to vote in and I will always make sure my vote counts.
I will NEVER support anyone or anything that supports the mindless banning of specific breeds of dogs. My family and friends have also decided to stop their support of the liberals. They will be choosing another party to support.

I do not care much for the other options, but I do know a government that would like to see my two responsibly owned, well cared for and well mannered dogs dead, definitely do not have our support. They will be losing many votes due to their lack of judgement and lies. What is the logic in supporting a government that is more concerned about banning dogs than the release of a serial killer/rapist from prison??!!!
When I decide who my vote will be going towards I will campaign for them.
I am impatiently awaiting the day to say, "Good riddance Mcliars!" :thumbs up

Prin
October 13th, 2005, 12:23 AM
Was there any political party that was against BSL?

Georgiapeaches
October 13th, 2005, 12:30 AM
Yes, both the NDP and conservative's spoke of their feelings regarding the issue. They did not and do not support bill 132. Although, I think one conservative voted in favour.
I communicated with a few different MPP's(non liberal, and including one who is the provincial leader of his party) during the period before the ban and they knew bill 132 was and is not going to stop dog attacks. And low and behold, it has not.

twodogsandacat
October 13th, 2005, 02:15 AM
Yes, both the NDP and conservative's spoke of their feelings regarding the issue. They did not and do not support bill 132. Although, I think one conservative voted in favour.
I communicated with a few different MPP's(non liberal, and including one who is the provincial leader of his party) during the period before the ban and they knew bill 132 was and is not going to stop dog attacks. And low and behold, it has not.

As some know I just returned from Katrina relief in Louisiana and I'm missing those pit bull kisses everybody talks about. When it's time to get a new dog (a few years at least) a pit bull has moved way up on the list of possible breeds. Now I know for sure that this ban is BS. I have never met so many huggers and kissers and by day two felt completely safe letting them drool all over me. :D

AND as for the other parties: their comments are on record as being against the ban so when the appeal is won and they are in power they will have a hard time enacting a modified ban. Rather they already seem smarter so maybe they won’t have a hard time not fighting it.

It's all-downhill from here Mr. McGuinty.

Guilty - Good. Gonna love this in 2007. Lose a Turn.

Not Guilty - He got off because of his connections. Lose a Turn.

No win. A top Liberal is gone for good. He's not coming back and you know it.

Schwinn
October 13th, 2005, 12:42 PM
This isn't an issue of thinking any other party would do better. In my opinion, I'm not even thinking about would another party do better as far as the federal liberals go, I'm thinking about how this party is doing. I predict two things for the feds--liberals will get in again, and it will be the lowest voter turn-out in history.

As for the Ontario liberals, do I think another party would do better? Yes, but it isn't even that. It's the amount of lies and deciet we have seen. I don't trust most politicians as far as I can throw them (even the really fat ones who weigh a lot), but the amount of lying, deception and promise breaking with this government has just been phenomenal. There have been previous governments I didn't like or didn't trust, but I have never seen anything this disgusting in my life. The level of lies is unbelievable! I don't consider myself to be Liberal or PC or Green party or whatever, I vote for the party who I feel will serve best at that time. That being said, I doubt I would ever vote for NDP, as, to me, I've always considered them to be the Communist party with money. That, and after watching that stuffed shirt Layton on city council, I wouldn't want to see him lead a parade, let alone a province.

kigaro
October 13th, 2005, 02:12 PM
I am not a liberal, but this is the way I see it these days a politician is a politician is a politician....

ditto, my sentiments exactly. all parties have the fair share of corruption.

chico2
October 13th, 2005, 04:57 PM
I remember how much I HATED the sight of Mulroney,then Harris,Eves and company...
The thing is,as middleclass Canadians we benefitted from Harris,gained about $3.000/yr.
But as we see it,there is no joy in watching our province having more and more home-less and children living below the poverty-line.
The constant harassment of doctors,nurses,teachers etc...Harris and his goons were nothing but bad news for Ontario.
As far as we(hubby and I)are concerned,the $3.000/yr we saved on taxes,was not worth all the hardship to the less fortunate.
If you think a prov,Pc government will cancel BSL,you are in la-la land,that is just not going to happen.They are all liars and thieves.....
The only thing Harper is good for is dressing up in a Stetson a leather vest BBQing burgers,he will never get the Ontarians vote,I am certain!
I have more respect for Martin than our McGuinty,although I certainly voted for him.Had they mentioned their plan about BSL,they would not have gotten my vote,that is one thing I know for sure.But then I would not have voted at all,I could and would never,ever vote PC.

seeker
October 13th, 2005, 06:30 PM
Yes, both the NDP and conservative's spoke of their feelings regarding the issue. They did not and do not support bill 132. Although, I think one conservative voted in favour.
I communicated with a few different MPP's(non liberal, and including one who is the provincial leader of his party) during the period before the ban and they knew bill 132 was and is not going to stop dog attacks. And low and behold, it has not.

You are right one PC did vote in favour , but it was in error raised his hand at the wrong time and then asked if the house would correct the vote to "nay" . They would not make the change and the vote stood .
My sister lives in his riding and called his office the next day which is when I first heard of the problem . I checked the Hansard and it verified the mistake .

pitbulliest
October 13th, 2005, 06:30 PM
AHHHHHHHHHH MY ears!!!!!!! Ralph Klein?!?! :eek: He went from our mayor, to our Premier, and if he ever makes it past that I think I might cry. What a classy man he is... screaming at homeless people to go back to the maritimes... yelling at "drunks" on the street, when it is infact he who is drunk... oh yes he will deffinately unite the country

I have to say though that Harper really creeps me out, Prin's comment about there's "something in his eyes" is exactly how I feel. It seems like there are so many things about him that he's hiding, and are trying to escape.

Hey...at least Alberta is better off than Toronto...I hear you guys are getting checks in the mail because the province has money leftover...gawd..the day that happens in Toronto, ...lol well, I don't even know what to say..because it won't happen... he may be yelling at homeless people and drunks..but at least he doesn't support BSL and think that its ok to send them to their grave because Michael Bryant says so..I used to live in Calgary and gawd do I miss it....I miss the Humane Society there, I miss the fact that they had better dog owner legislation...I miss the quality of life I had compared to here.....the liberals suck! Everyone is either on welfare or disability in downtown Toronto...or they're just stuck paying off the mortgage until they're 90...or they're at work 24/7....what kind of quality of life is that? The prices for anything aren't getting any lower, the taxes are pathetic...and health care is getting worse instead of better (didn't liberals say they would change all that? WAKEY WAKEY that's what they say every year!)....

I'm sorry but the liberals need to get shot...every single one of them..they're all one in the same..all a bunch of lying pigs that ban dogs and attempt to ban sushi...because they want to make themselves look like they're doing something positive...Wooo..look at us we're banning evil monster pitbulls..we're heroes now..vote for us and forget the fact that we're screwing you all over!

Give me a break..every last one of them voted for Bill 132...every last one of them heard the professionals speak on behalf of the pitties and disagree with BSL..every last one of them KNEW that it was wrong..but they did it because they wanted to stay in power, not lose their seats, and get YOUR votes so they can eat up your money.....even though they KNEW it was wrong!

VOTE FOR LIBERALS I WILL NOT!

Roxy's_MA
October 13th, 2005, 06:50 PM
Yup, the cheques are the surplus rebate. Everyone gets one even children. I think the max is $1600 per household. I know alot of people might have different opinions about how the surplus money should be spent. All I know is I would rather see it in my pocket than the pocket of some politician.

gdamadg
October 13th, 2005, 06:52 PM
Although I am originally from Ontario and currently live here, I consider myself a displaced Albertan. I lived there for 11 years and ended up here because the Army told me. If you look around, and it's not just because of the oil, Alberta is the only successful province I believe. Sure Ralph is a bit crass and doesn't care what people think, but that is part of his charm.

I have never and will never vote for the Liberal Party, at any government level. Now just because I like Ralph Klein, doesn't mean that I will vote PC. They can't be trusted, ever since the Alliance and Conservatives combined. One name for all of you, Preston Manning. LOL, well at least he would have been an interesting leader. I actually voted Communist during the last federal election. And I think if there is a member in my riding for the next election, I am gonna vote for the new Sex Party (http://www.thesexparty.ca/index.html).

Georgiapeaches
October 13th, 2005, 06:59 PM
You are right one PC did vote in favour , but it was in error raised his hand at the wrong time and then asked if the house would correct the vote to "nay" . They would not make the change and the vote stood .
My sister lives in his riding and called his office the next day which is when I first heard of the problem . I checked the Hansard and it verified the mistake .

Yes, I watched the televised vote and Tascona made a mistake in his vote.
I was not counting him when I stated that one conservative voted in favour. I was speaking of Norman Sterling. Mr. Sterling went against his own party and voted in favour of bill 132. Either way it didn't make difference when it was a whipped vote by the liberal's.http://goodpooch.com/BSL/BILL132PoliticalAgenda.htm

babyrocky1
October 13th, 2005, 07:07 PM
Hmmm. Coincidentally enough, today I called the NDP to ask if they had a candidate running in St. Pauls yet, they do for Federal but not provincial. I am a member of the NDP, had they suppported BSL I would have quiit the party in the blink of an eye. Other than election time I don't bother with them but I always volunteer for every election campaign. Not so much because I want them in government, more because I want them in a strong position of oppositon. I believe that one of the few ways we can keep them somewhat honest ,politicians that is, is by not giving them huge majorities. I could NEVER vote for a Tory, Alliance, Republican, whatever they call themselves....NEVER! And so I am extremely conflicted! The Liberal Party Platform is not offensive to me at all...its the actual liberal politicians that are the problem. There were, before the BSL Sham, many liberals who I had grown to respect when they were in opposition. I now feel physically ill when I see or hear them speak. What they say has no meaning to me anymore, even when its an issue that I feel strongly about. For me this is the absolute end of EVER completely trusting a politician. Including the NDP. I will continue to work for the ones who have not yet let me down. Someone asked how we can blame EVERY liberal...I don't... only EVERY single Ontario liberal who voted for BSL when they had undesputable evidence that they would be murdering dogs for no reason! That IS every single member of parliament for the current liberal party. Including a once "animal Activist" Michael Cole. He supported Bryant and is now a cabinet minister...(draw your own conclusions) I hope this doesnt lead to a nasty political debate. We can all hold different political beliefs and still respect each other but these are my personal feelings on the matter and as I have said it is difficult because I would honestly have to say that I would much rather see the federal fibs in office than Harper! BTW Jack isn't that much of a stuffed shirt in real life LOL!

babyrocky1
October 13th, 2005, 07:15 PM
One more thing, didn't the federal fibs recently strenthen Animal Cruelty laws? One other thing, strategically I am wondering if anyone knows how to find out what the election numbers were in Bryants riding last time around. This is were the conflict is for me, if only a Tory can beat him then I will certainly be CONFLICTED, Im hoping the NDP candidate will have a hope in hell, but its a pretty wealthy area....lets just hope theres alot of pit bulls in the riding LOL

seeker
October 13th, 2005, 07:58 PM
Yes, I watched the televised vote and Tascona made a mistake in his vote.
I was not counting him when I stated that one conservative voted in favour. I was speaking of Norman Sterling. Mr. Sterling went against his own party and voted in favour of bill 132. Either way it didn't make difference when it was a whipped vote by the liberal's.http://goodpooch.com/BSL/BILL132PoliticalAgenda.htm


I learn something everyday ! Sorry , I didn't know that .

twodogsandacat
October 13th, 2005, 09:27 PM
One more thing, didn't the federal fibs recently strenthen Animal Cruelty laws? One other thing, strategically I am wondering if anyone knows how to find out what the election numbers were in Bryants riding last time around. This is were the conflict is for me, if only a Tory can beat him then I will certainly be CONFLICTED, Im hoping the NDP candidate will have a hope in hell, but its a pretty wealthy area....lets just hope theres alot of pit bulls in the riding LOL


Bryant smoked the other candidates and took 54.76 % leaving the others to share the rest. Then again he started early and had a lot of support from certain groups. Groups he has screwed over (or is about to screw over) and they need to know it.

Don’t be disappointed by the numbers. Even if he wins he will be sitting on the other side of the room and that might be more fun. We’ll still know his email address and can continually ask how he likes it over there. Still the desired goal is get him out and buy him a bus ticket back to BC.

http://www.electionsontario.on.ca/results/2003_results/valid_votes.jsp?e_code=38&rec=303&district=&district_code=0&rec-page=50&flag=E&layout=G

BTW: Did everybody see the Toronto Sun's front page today. Dalton looks like crap. Where is our young handsome premier? Gone like Sobara that's where . Nice to see those worry lines Dalton.

twodogsandacat
October 13th, 2005, 09:47 PM
Handsome? Mcguinty's a wet noodle, always has been.

Last time Bryant ran against a young newcomer cutting her teeth while the Tories were on a down cycle. Next time around the PC will field a seasoned, respected competitor in an election the Liberals are sure to lose in favour of John Tory. Bryant could very well lose his seat. I'd bet on it.

Please be assured that I was mocking him. I certainly don't consider him handsome. I did however notice that the photo wasn't one of his best. I totally agree with Ernie Eves description of him as a reptilian kitten eater.

As for Bryant I agree.

babyrocky1
October 13th, 2005, 09:57 PM
Thanks 2 dogs, I looked at the breakdown, not at all good for the NDP. My biggest fear is that I volunteer and that somehow helps Bryant but as Im typing this Im thiinking DUH...no way a vote for NDP can hurt PC so I still hurt Bryant .... So its still a sweet deal... :confused: Isn't it???? But then I would be helping the Tory....AHHHH...conflicted...LOL! Im still thinking Ill work for the NDP person......No way I can sit this out! Ill be in Bryants riding for sure. I have to live up to that promise I made him :D

Prin
October 13th, 2005, 10:37 PM
Can we not talk about the surplus in Alberta? It is one thing that I really don't think is fair. On top of you never having to pay provincial sales tax, I really don't think that where a country's resources lie should benefit only those around them.

twodogsandacat
October 13th, 2005, 10:47 PM
No way I can sit this out! Ill be in Bryants riding for sure. I have to live up to that promise I made him :D

Well if you can't break a promise I guess there really is no way you could be a Liberal. :D

It is confusing isn't it? I was always a Liberal but I know they have to go before the party can regain the integrity is has lost in recent years.

babyrocky1
October 13th, 2005, 10:59 PM
Well if you can't break a promise I guess there really is no way you could be a Liberal. :D

It is confusing isn't it? I was always a Liberal but I know they have to go before the party can regain the integrity is has lost in recent years.Yes in some ways it must be harder for you, I have never voted Liberal, I must admit I usually hope they win overall, but I always vote NDP and work in my ridiing. Id be pretty ticked off if we had an MB or a DM in my party!!!!!The conflict for me, is more who Im rooting for! But really seeing Bryant lose his seat and him knowing WHY....that would be a dream come true! Even if the worst happens and he isn't gone this time, as far as Im concerned its a life long ambition of mine to see this "bite him in the a$$!"

Roxy's_MA
October 14th, 2005, 11:07 AM
Can we not talk about the surplus in Alberta? It is one thing that I really don't think is fair. On top of you never having to pay provincial sales tax, I really don't think that where a country's resources lie should benefit only those around them.

I know you don't want to talk about it, but I just have to say Alberta does pay equalization payments to the federal government. We pay more than any other province, and probably have one of the lower populations.

pitbulliest
October 14th, 2005, 12:04 PM
Can we not talk about the surplus in Alberta? It is one thing that I really don't think is fair. On top of you never having to pay provincial sales tax, I really don't think that where a country's resources lie should benefit only those around them.

Although it isn't fair..its not because Alberta isn't willing to share (because as Roxy mentioned, they definately DO)..its because Ontario is really really bad at managing itself...Alberta knows what its doing...and we shouldn't be jealous..we should learn from them...BUT...thanks to our great and organized politicians that posess nothing but a brain made of bricks and "Ontario pride" if you will...gawd only knows where our money is going and where it will continue to go in the future if things don't change...if the public doesn't start cracking down on our government anytime soon....ontario is only going to get worse...I came from Alberta to Ontario about 5 years ago...and I was expecting something alot better....and you know what really hurts? Is that it has gotten alot worse since I came here...in 5 years!....That's definately NOT a good thing... :sad:

kigaro
October 14th, 2005, 12:11 PM
Although it isn't fair..its not because Alberta isn't willing to share (because as Roxy mentioned, they definately DO)..its because Ontario is really really bad at managing itself...Alberta knows what its doing...and we shouldn't be jealous..we should learn from them...BUT...thanks to our great and organized politicians that posess nothing but a brain made of bricks and "Ontario pride" if you will...gawd only knows where our money is going and where it will continue to go in the future if things don't change...if the public doesn't start cracking down on our government anytime soon....ontario is only going to get worse...I came from Alberta to Ontario about 5 years ago...and I was expecting something alot better....and you know what really hurts? Is that it has gotten alot worse since I came here...in 5 years!....That's definately NOT a good thing... :sad:


this is a very subjective oversimplification of a much more complex issue.

pitbulliest
October 14th, 2005, 01:07 PM
kigaro...you can say whatever you want about this issue...but from my point of view...and alot of Ontarian's point of view...it sure isn't getting any better

kigaro
October 14th, 2005, 02:26 PM
points of view are great, and allow us to have subjective opinions; they are not, however, empirical, as your above comment clearly demonstrates.

Prin
October 14th, 2005, 03:19 PM
points of view are great, and allow us to have subjective opinions; they are not, however, empirical, as your above comment clearly demonstrates.
Nearly everything on politics is opinions. I don't understand why you're getting so hopped up. :confused:

twodogsandacat
October 14th, 2005, 03:43 PM
Nearly everything on politics is opinions.


If we all felt the same and voted for the same parties it would be worse. the threat of losing your turn is what keeps it working. I won't say it keeps them honest though as we in Ontario have seen a government that are either the biggest liars we have ever seen or the worse at it so they keep getting caught.

The original point of this thread was that the Liberals have just lost one of their most powerful ministers. Thankfully the press hasn't missed the fact that he has been replaced by a man that has already blown one portfolio. For that I'm feeling like it's Christmas.

kigaro
October 14th, 2005, 03:55 PM
politics yes, economics no. trying to infer causal links between the surplus of one province & the deficit of another without considering all the varialbes is inductive reasoning at best. personally, i don't have an issue with it, everyone is entitled to their opinion, including me pointing that the reasoning in the post is based on personal experience. i lived in alberta and, in my opinion, it is no worse or better than ontario, subjective as it may.

pitbulliest
October 14th, 2005, 04:14 PM
subjective INDEED... :rolleyes: