Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

It's beginning ... speculation of more dogs added

Faceless
September 23rd, 2005, 12:48 PM
http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Story/20050923-004/page.asp

"It’s not an animal covered by the pit bull ban that took effect last month, but it still caused an elderly woman and her three dogs pain, and the fear of a lifetime.

The 74-year-old was walking her three poodles at about 6:30am Friday when an unleashed Rottweiler attacked near O’Connor Dr. and St. Clair Ave.

Police managed to corner the canine in a driveway, using cookies to gain her trust. She was then corralled using a lawn chair and leashed with a rope.

The woman and her pets weren’t seriously injured – requiring some bandages for cuts and scratches before returning home. The victim said she wasn’t angry at the animal, but its owner.

It raises the issue of whether other dogs besides pit bulls should have been included in the ban that took effect in late August.

Rottweilers have been known to attack, as have other breeds, like German Shepherds.

But neither falls under the current ban, which means owners don’t face similar penalities for failing to leash and/or muzzle their potentially dangerous dogs.

One Rottweiler owner asked earlier this week that his animal be put down because he admitted he could no longer control it. The 49-year-old man was attacked by his own pet, and will now need extensive surgery on his leg.

Police officers used pepper spray on the dog and after several blasts the animal let his master go.

The dog attacked for no apparent reason, but apparently has a history of aggressive behaviour.

Pit bulls are no longer allowed into the province of Ontario, and they’ll have to be neutered, as well as leashed and muzzled at all times in public.

Those who disobey the new laws could face jail time and fines of up to $10,000. Owners can also be found liable if their improperly restrained dog attacks and injures someone."

There it is, a muted cry to ban Rotties, and even German Shepherds are mentioned. It starts with Pit bulls, and if unchecked, won't end until we won't be able to own Dogs at all.

lezzpezz
September 23rd, 2005, 01:20 PM
however.....the article states:

"It raises the issue of whether other dogs besides pit bulls should have been included in the ban that took effect in late August."

Well, that is not the question raised in MY mind! My question is:

Why didn't with anyone with decision-making abilities listen to all of the professionals and animal-related organizations that spoke out clearly AGAINST BSL, as well as think to use Calgary's formula for success in curbing dog attacks, as a template, and DEAL WITH IRRESPONSIBLE OWNERS AND ALL BREEDS OF DOGS THAT ARE SHOWN TO BE AGRESSIVE AS A WHOLE?????

Now look at the mess the Liberals have put us in!! And so it begins....look out Italy.....we are sniffin' up the rear!

Take care of and protect your dogs, people..... :sad:

Roxy's_MA
September 23rd, 2005, 01:52 PM
[url]The victim said she wasn’t angry at the animal, but its owner.

It raises the issue of whether other dogs besides pit bulls should have been included in the ban that took effect in late August.


I agree with lezzerpezzer, this is a perfect example of why BSL doesn't work. No matter what breed of dog they try and ban, there will always be owners, who raise agressive dogs. The real issue that should be raised is what to do about the owners of agressive dogs, not what to do about certain breeds of dogs. I just don't understand why the people making the laws, don't seem to have any common sense.

Schwinn
September 23rd, 2005, 01:59 PM
I hate to say it, but in a dark way, this is a good thing. The whole basis for banning pitbulls was because they were "inherently different", and no other breed will be required to be banned. This shows that the Liberals were wrong ( :eek: ), and perhaps they need to re-think this. I don't think we'll be going the way of Italy anytime soon. I think there are too many people who have non-pitbull dogs who would suddenly go, "Wait, maybe my dogs ARE at risk!", and it wouldn't escalate to that. I hate to say it, and please realize what I mean by this, but there is a part of me that wants to see more attacks by the non-pit dogs, or at least them getting reported. It's the only way the ignorant is going to pay attention to the facts--it's a dog and/or owner problem, not a breed specific problem.

(No, I don't really want to see people get attacked. I'm just frustrated by the BS of the BSL)

Rottielover
September 23rd, 2005, 01:59 PM
This now has me sitting on edge....I am just waiting for the day that they say your dog must leave... You see I have a rottie. A big bad mean little wuss. LOL. but all they see is the damage that he can do, not the love he gives. I look at him every day, and night, and tell him I will protect him from big bad people... He just snorts back at me....he is content

LavenderRott
September 23rd, 2005, 02:51 PM
I hate to say it, but in a dark way, this is a good thing. The whole basis for banning pitbulls was because they were "inherently different", and no other breed will be required to be banned. This shows that the Liberals were wrong ( :eek: ), and perhaps they need to re-think this. I don't think we'll be going the way of Italy anytime soon. I think there are too many people who have non-pitbull dogs who would suddenly go, "Wait, maybe my dogs ARE at risk!", and it wouldn't escalate to that. I hate to say it, and please realize what I mean by this, but there is a part of me that wants to see more attacks by the non-pit dogs, or at least them getting reported. It's the only way the ignorant is going to pay attention to the facts--it's a dog and/or owner problem, not a breed specific problem.

(No, I don't really want to see people get attacked. I'm just frustrated by the BS of the BSL)

Schwinn, I really love you, but the problem with your theory is that only bites/attackes by dog breeds that are already percieved as dangerous are still going to be the only attackes written about in the media. I have to wonder how many labradors or goldens have bitten anyone in Toronto since the ban was put in place. I promise you, unless they kill someone, they will not make the front page. And if it does, then you can bet they will find something huge that provoked the dog to bite.

SnowDancer
September 23rd, 2005, 03:02 PM
St. Clair and O'Connor is the major intersection where I live and I have in fact encountered the loose Rotti in question. Emphasis on the loose. He went after my Eskimo and I had to flatten myself on the ground with my dog under me and talk the Rotti down. I am not the only one this has happened to. There are also 3 Pit Bulls who are allowed to roam loose - with owners trailing behind them. One started over to my dog and refused his owner's command to return to him. My Eskimo is always on a leash and I expect others to do same. The park that is closest to St. Clair is NOT an off leash park but every day there are a number of very large dogs running loose and many a person has had to pick up their smaller dog and run. I do not go into the park - ever - and at this point will not even walk by it - kind of hard though since I live right across the street from it - we go the other way. My little guy likes to strut his stuff and will bark. I also blame the owners. My Eskimo has sharp teeth and a bite would hurt - I don't give him the chance to bite out of fear - I keep him tightly leashed - and caution people who want to pet the little fluffernutter that I would prefer that they not as he is a one dog person, unless he is in a controlled environment such as his socialization class. Kids taunting him by circling him with skateboards and bicycles also does not help.

mastifflover
September 23rd, 2005, 03:08 PM
Sorry but no dog should be banned. We all know it is the owners. This is sad but in a way it helps to show that it is not the breed. On another point I am glad to say that I have seen lots of pits in my area not wearing muzzles and owners do not plan on using them unless forced to. Saying they will fight it in court. Of course these are responsible owners but are truly pissed about this law and they are a varied age groups.

SnowDancer
September 23rd, 2005, 03:41 PM
Leashed is all I ask for at this point. I don't care what type of dog - just be leashed on the city streets.

lezzpezz
September 23rd, 2005, 03:46 PM
I understand your theory, Schwinn, and agree with it in part. It would be nice if other bites committed by varying breeds were highlighted in the press to prove how useless BSL is. I was being slightly overdramatic when referring to Italy :p . I am also quite fed up with the BSL crap, (as if it wasn't obvious in my post!).

I don't want to hear about MORE bites by different breeds other than pb's, rather, just hear about ANY that are already happening, as I truly think there are many and these just get swept under the rug which just feeds the existing Liberal agenda perfectly.

I think LavenderRott has hit it the nail on the head when she says: "only bites/attackes by dog breeds that are already percieved as dangerous are still going to be the only attackes written about in the media.", as well as the balance of her post.

I think in due time, the truth will come to light, but at what cost? :(

doggy lover
September 23rd, 2005, 04:12 PM
I personally don't care what breed a dog is, a dog is a dog and if its going to bite it will. I have met alot of little dogs that I'd like to kick into tomorrow because they are so agressive, and what does their owners do, pick them up and "oh it ok baby I won't let the big doggy get you". Ha. Neither my last dog all 120lbs of him or Tucker would have ever hurt another dog or cat, but I'd hate to tell you how many little s--ts have ran up to them snarling, growling and trying to attack them. I love animals but if one had ever bitten them yes I would give them a swift kick up the arse. Last night I was in the vets and there was a LARGE Rottie, he was so happy to see Tucker no agression what so ever. This whole dog ban makes me sick, why not ban some of these little brats too.

Roxy's_MA
September 23rd, 2005, 04:19 PM
This whole dog ban makes me sick, why not ban some of these little brats too.

EEEK :eek: if they banned the little brats, I am almost sure Jack Russells would be at the top of the list. :(

StaceyB
September 23rd, 2005, 04:35 PM
Well as I said before, I offer anti-aggression/social training and have had great success. I have had all kinds of different breeds but not one was a pit. Either their owners are not getting professional help in dealing with their problems or there just isn't many to start with. I have had shepherds, boxers, bull dogs, labs, goldens, bichon, daschunds, maltese, poodles, old english, poms, shih tzus, etc. As you can see there isn't a pattern of breeds so what do they have in common, their families.

love my dogs
September 23rd, 2005, 04:41 PM
The woman and her pets weren’t seriously injured – requiring some bandages for cuts and scratches before returning home. The victim said she wasn’t angry at the animal, but its owner.

They call this an attack?!

Then they say the dog was running loose.

Then they want to ban the entire breed because a loose dog caused a few cuts and scratches?

Dumb!

StaceyB
September 23rd, 2005, 04:46 PM
From the details I get from many incidents I would guess that many times it is an excited dog that is jumping around acting like an idiot. Not aggressive just bad manners.

babyrocky1
September 23rd, 2005, 05:42 PM
The media reporting Pit Bull "attacks" in a highly over-sensationalised manner is what got us all were we are today. They created the environment for Michael Bryant and Bryant wannnabees! We have to stay on the media before THEY strike again! Dont let them think that we will stand for this Kind of reporting AGAIN> Were organized this time...the MEDIA may very well target a new breed. Rottis are the obvious next choice, theres alot of people who equate them with pitties as being menacing. We need to get on the media NOW. IM really saddened to hear that this was on City TV we know that they know better. Especially that they would ask if we should be banning more breeds. It sounds like theyre trying to get people going again! :mad:

mastifflover
September 23rd, 2005, 05:58 PM
Well as I said before, I offer anti-aggression/social training and have had great success. I have had all kinds of different breeds but not one was a pit. Either their owners are not getting professional help in dealing with their problems or there just isn't many to start with. I have had shepherds, boxers, bull dogs, labs, goldens, bichon, daschunds, maltese, poodles, old english, poms, shih tzus, etc. As you can see there isn't a pattern of breeds so what do they have in common, their families.

I really believe that most responsible owners realize if their dog is aggressive and deals with it right away rather than letting it get worse. When you own large or so called aggressive dogs you have to be twice as dilligent with your dog. I have to agree when we go to the park or are walking down the street large and medium size dogs just usually do the sniff at each other and move on then we have the small dogs who are lunging and barking and growling but that seems to be acceptable behaviour by their owners. But if my dog did exhibit that type of behaviour it would not be acceptable. That type of behaviour is not acceptable from any dog no matter what size. I think most owners need more training.

babyrocky1
September 23rd, 2005, 07:23 PM
I just sent City tv and email telling them that there coverage sucked. LOL I was somewhat more articulate than that though...I hope. I didn''t know how to copy it and post it here but I emailed it to myself as well so maybe that will work and then I can post it :confused:

babyrocky1
September 23rd, 2005, 07:27 PM
This now has me sitting on edge....I am just waiting for the day that they say your dog must leave... You see I have a rottie. A big bad mean little wuss. LOL. but all they see is the damage that he can do, not the love he gives. I look at him every day, and night, and tell him I will protect him from big bad people... He just snorts back at me....he is contentDont worry too much Rottielover, CP 24 is pretty local. I doubt if anyone picked up on that particular story in your neck of the woods. Its good to be vigilant but try not to drive yourslef crazy like us pittie owners are...its no fun being us right now :crazy:

StaceyB
September 23rd, 2005, 08:54 PM
When I first started having students and staff come to me asking whether this was going to pass I honestly thought there was no way. I was so wrong.

StaceyB
September 24th, 2005, 01:00 PM
So I saw this on the news. I wasn't there so I can't say what happened for sure but from the video she said that her dogs were seriously injured, it didn't look that way. Her dogs looked to be fine. Anyway they asked the question whether or not they should have added more breeds to the ban. Someone from the SPCA came on and said as we all know it is the owners and how the dogs are raised that creates aggressive dogs not the breed. Then they said that they were not going to add any other breeds to the ban because there were enough by-laws in place now to deal with irresponsible dog owners.


If they would retract the breed ban the other laws regarding all breeds would still be there which is all anyone wanted anyway.

Me and Kayla
September 24th, 2005, 10:59 PM
Well as I said before, I offer anti-aggression/social training and have had great success. I have had all kinds of different breeds but not one was a pit. Either their owners are not getting professional help in dealing with their problems or there just isn't many to start with. .

Or maybe....as Pittie owners (the responsible ones), we are a little more conscious of 'needs of the breed' and work harder to socialize and train our dogs. Not to say that other owners of other breeds don't do the same. But, I think in general, because the breed has had such a negative 'rap', we are just more aware of the effort needed to raise a pittie.

Me and Kayla

Akeeter
September 26th, 2005, 09:51 AM
Ottawa tried to ban German Shepherd dogs some time ago. That legislation failed. And Ottawa area dog owners got better organized.

IMHO, you are going to see more bans proposed on more breeds as isolated incidents happen. The 'Over 40 pounds' thing that the some Fed. Liberals have mentioned, along with PETA, & some other misguided animal wefare?? groups have mentioned. (You have to wonder where & how they picked that magic number?
"No one needs to own a dog over 40 lbs." Well, why not 50 lbs, or 5 lbs, or 20 lbs?)

"There it is, a muted cry to ban Rotties, and even German Shepherds are mentioned. It starts with Pit bulls, and if unchecked, won't end until we won't be able to own Dogs at all."[/QUOTE]

bluntman
September 26th, 2005, 01:56 PM
There it is, a muted cry to ban Rotties, and even German Shepherds are mentioned. It starts with Pit bulls, and if unchecked, won't end until we won't be able to own Dogs at all.
Rotties and shephards are safe as long as Bryant and the Liberals are in power.
1) Bryant solved 100% of dog problems by banning pit bulls.(so he says)
2) Bryant has allready stated rotties are not a problem.
3) Bryant egnored the fact that Sheperds attack more people than pitties in Toronto, when presented with actuall stats, because shepherds are his favorite breed of dog.

Any attempt to add other breeds, would add to much fuel to the fire, that breed bans don't work. This is someting the Liberals do not want to happen right now with Clayton ruby takeing them to court. I do think this sort of thing will come up again and again, as people and reporters realize, all dogs can attack, and this ban is a farce, that protects no one.

StaceyB
September 26th, 2005, 02:07 PM
There was a period of time last year where I was seeing 3 out of 4 shepherds showing issues of aggression. I was beginning to believe that many of them were coming from the same breeder.

love my dogs
September 26th, 2005, 04:58 PM
The 'Over 40 pounds' thing that the some Fed. Liberals have mentioned, along with PETA, & some other misguided animal wefare?? groups have mentioned. (You have to wonder where & how they picked that magic number?

Soooo....what if your dog is lazy, eats table scraps, and eventually gets fat?

Conners
September 26th, 2005, 04:59 PM
There was a period of time last year where I was seeing 3 out of 4 shepherds showing issues of aggression. I was beginning to believe that many of them were coming from the same breeder.
I wouldn't worry about Bryant banning shepherds. He owns two.

Prin
September 26th, 2005, 05:09 PM
Soooo....what if your dog is lazy, eats table scraps, and eventually gets fat?
Or the other way, if you starve your lab to death, I'm sure you can get him to be 40lbs. Or better yet, lets start a BYB craze for people looking for the breed they want under 40lbs. Like a Chidanedane, or a Pommastiff...

StaceyB
September 26th, 2005, 05:21 PM
I don't think that any breeds should be banned no matter who owns them. I do however think that it would be better to make it mandatory that all dogs are trained, socialized and tested at an appropriate age to see if they are sound. Those who are not require more training with a professional and are to be re-tested at a later date. If the dog is a danger to others it should then have some requirements for safety placed on them.

love my dogs
September 26th, 2005, 05:21 PM
Great idea Prin!

How about a miniture Rotti, or a tea cup lab!

StaceyB
September 26th, 2005, 05:23 PM
Can you imagine. Mind you I have seen the mini aussies.

Prin
September 26th, 2005, 05:34 PM
Wouldn't mini aussies be called kids? :D Hee hee, or Joeys (or little Mels)? :D

Prin
September 26th, 2005, 05:36 PM
Oooh I've got one- you mix a mini poodle with a standard poodle and you get a 40lb Poodledoodle!!!

mastifflover
September 26th, 2005, 05:38 PM
But remember most of these small dogs are the ones who bite, just not reported because they do not do as much damage. I agree no dog should be banned. But I think every dog and owner needs to go to obedience training, it should be mandatory that you and your dog pass these courses it might help if more people had someone to get them on the right track to train a dog properly. I suggest we ban the liberals and my favourite Michael Bryant who should be wearing a muzzle and on a leash.

Conners
September 26th, 2005, 06:00 PM
I don't think that any breeds should be banned no matter who owns them. I do however think that it would be better to make it mandatory that all dogs are trained, socialized and tested at an appropriate age to see if they are sound. Those who are not require more training with a professional and are to be re-tested at a later date. If the dog is a danger to others it should then have some requirements for safety placed on them.
You're quite right. Too bad the government keeps their heads in the sand and only make rediculas laws rather than making logical moves such as yours. But what criminal ever heard of manitory or went by the rules?

StaceyB
September 26th, 2005, 06:11 PM
Apparently they are also doing the mini golden doodle as they call them. Min poodle/golden.

melanie
September 26th, 2005, 06:26 PM
oh prin youve got a wild sense of humor, you jsut crack me up qoute 'Wouldn't mini aussies be called kids? Hee hee, or Joeys (or little Mels)? ' thats jsut so bloody funny :D your a riot :D :p

um in my life i ahve known many dogs, big ones, little ones, pink ones, blue ones and even a few oodledoodle ones too. and in all that time i have onyl ever been viciously attacked by one breed, yep the cute litte poodles. as a child 3 of them tore my face to bits, its was disgusting. but no one called for thier ban, why not?? are they not more dangerous?? i know for sure i wil only allow the kids to be around big charlie, and certianly not my mother little shzu mix, bugger that to much risk with the littleies to me, maybe im paranoid but they freak right out. havent they intoduced BSL for corgis in london, doesnt that say it all??? its not the big guys, its just poorly trained dogs.

stupid, stupid, stupid, i want to hit my head on somethign it makes me so frustrated.

but hey didnt you know my cuddly charlie is a baby killer, gosh didnt you? i thought it was obvious through her size and breed.... :mad:

stupid stupid stupid, i wanna jsut go and hid somewhere till all the crazy humans go away......

StaceyB
September 26th, 2005, 06:27 PM
Like everything you would have some sneak by but I think this kind of set up would do more than just cut down in dog attacks. I think people would put a little more thought into getting a dog if they had to prove that their dog was generally sound. Yes, I know there are exceptions but it would cut down on incidents caused by improper raising of dogs. Many other things should be done along with it like beginning with not allowing pet stores to sell puppies. This will cut down on impulse buying and the decrease of puppy mill puppies. Put a by-law on all breeders to have their breeding dogs tested before breeding. Non-compliance would result in seisure of dogs and a hefty fine.

Roxy's_MA
September 26th, 2005, 06:30 PM
. havent they intoduced BSL for corgis in london, doesnt that say it all??? its not the big guys, its just poorly trained dogs.


The Queen of England owns Corgis....so I am not sure how that would sit with her. I know that Corgis are banned in Italy though.

Prin
September 26th, 2005, 09:36 PM
oh prin youve got a wild sense of humor, you jsut crack me up qoute 'Wouldn't mini aussies be called kids? Hee hee, or Joeys (or little Mels)? ' thats jsut so bloody funny :D your a riot :D :p Tee hee hee- I was hoping you would come in here... Otherwise, the joke didn't make sense... :D

mona_b
September 26th, 2005, 11:31 PM
One Rottweiler owner asked earlier this week that his animal be put down because he admitted he could no longer control it. The 49-year-old man was attacked by his own pet, and will now need extensive surgery on his leg.

That's funny,I was told that this guys friend was walking the muzzled Rottie.The Rottie got out of his muzzle and attacked the guy.This Rottie had attacked someone 6 months earlier.


ROTFLMFAO...You crack me up Prin....... :p

Me and Kayla
September 27th, 2005, 08:12 AM
The Queen of England owns Corgis....so I am not sure how that would sit with her. I know that Corgis are banned in Italy though.

I don't think it's going to bother her much. It's not like she doesn't have a huge backyard to run them in. Oh wait.....isn't 'crown land' actually owned by the state? That would make the grounds of Buckingham Palace, public property.. :eek:


Me and Kayla