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huge dilemma, please help

lunasnoopy
September 19th, 2005, 12:50 PM
Hello

I have a small dog luna and a big dog snoops (about 50 pounds). No kids at all. Let me tell you about snoops. I found him as a wild puppy with his sister zar zar in the wild whilst out walking Luna 11 months ago.

Snoops, the puppy had a broken leg. So we took them in, got the silly syrian vet (we live in syria) to fix him and it took 4 months screwing around with casts etc. He was also a shy boy so was scared of everything, now he is more assertive, but not aggressive. We have no animal shelters here, so I took Zar Zar to a Christian monastery (with no fences) in the mountains, as she is healthy and happy there with the Xtian monks. She is happy there but life is basic there and she sleeps outside etc, but she is reasonably well treated, fed there. She never left the monastery.

This is where the dilemma starts. Zar Zar is here at home this week to be spayed (the church has neither the resources or the time to bring her to a vet). She is ok and now healed from the operation. Now, Zar Zar and Snoops play like crazy here, unlike Snoops and Luna who NEVER play together.

I was wondering, please tell me, is it cruel to take him to the monastery now? He is always sitting out in the yard, even though the doors are always open, he just loves the yard, but I make him sleep inside ofcourse. But he is (free) in a fenced yard, gets only one walk a day. He loves the outdoors, walks etc. He is adorable, I love him.

We are nomads. My husband and I travel the world for his job, and we may have to go to a place where it is a big city, hot, like 120 degrees etc. We also have no kids, so in some of the places, we are given an apartment. Expense of moving around is not a problem. We will nevere live in our own house and we could be discriminated for having 2 dogs. I like nice houses--when you are a nomad for decades, you want to live in a nice house atleast as you spend most time at home. We now live in a dump as we got so discriminated by landlords for our second dog snoopy. Luna was ok for landlords as she is little.

Shall I take him to the church? Shall I keep him? If we are transferred to dubai, then it willl be like 120 degrees all day, and he will sit inside I guess. Will that make him happy? If we take him to Houston, leash laws. Discriminating landlords. Lawsuits if he even jumps on somebody?

When I see Snoops and Zar Zar play like crazy, I just have tears in my eyes, as they are so lovely. Is a free running church better than a fenced yard? The monks are nice but a dog is a dog to them, not a lap dog. The monks live an austere life so they dont want pampered pets. They do vaccinate them, but for serious injuries, I dont know. There are no vets around in this country, never mind in the remote mountain.

Please please advise. I want to do what is happy for him. I also have to think a little about us, and we didnt buy him and get rid of him. We saved him from almost certain death as when we found him, he had a broken leg so couldnt find any food and his mom had taken off. Only Zar Zar was there, protecting her little brother.

The monks will never say no to me as I go there like once a month to see Zar Zar. they even ask me when I am bringing him.

Another issue is that we leave the country by Xmas, with or without him. so if things dont work out after we are gone, he is screwed.

please please answer me.

lunasnoopy

Lucky Rescue
September 19th, 2005, 01:29 PM
This is a tough one.

Right now you know you have a place for him with his sister, and where he won't be abused and will be fed but will not be seen as a pet, nor given vet care should he get sick.

You can offer love, medical care,attention and a safe indoor home.

But since you travel so much, if you end up in some place where you cannot keep him, you may have no safe place for him to go there. I wouldn't worry about the temperature of any place, I would worry more about landlords not allowing him to stay with you.

IF you decide to leave him with the monks, make sure both dogs have all their shots and are healthy. Can you keep in touch and help financially if either dog needs vet care? Would the monks take them to the vet if you paid for it? This would be a big concern for me - that one of them will get sick or hurt and suffer.

You've done a lot for these dogs, and having them live together in a place where they have freedom to play together, no one will hurt them and they won't end up dying in a shelter doesn't sound so bad, considering what their alternative was. Many cultures do not see dogs as pets, but since these dogs have never known any other life, they seem happy to just hang around people.

It sounds like Snoops was semi-feral and might have difficulty moving around to different places, and could be VERY hard to rehome if necessary.

I know this decision is very difficult for you, but to me it sounds like Snoops might be happy at the monastery. JMO.

lunasnoopy
September 20th, 2005, 06:39 AM
thanks. debs lucky rescue. OK, the vet thing in the monastery is a lot to be desired. There is no vet there, except once a year to vaccinate them. When his sister had a mild case of mange, they just put some human medication on it and luckily it went away.

For them, dog is a dog. but as they are xtian, they look after them as kind of working animals almost. Sure they pet them and feed them well (leftovers, not doggie chow), and that is it. If they get some condition (even a broken leg), they will just put them down, as there are no vets there and it is soooo remote. Having said this, there is another old dog there who has been there for about 6 years, in good health, happily living away. And zar zar, snoops' sister gets to meet all these pilgrims, largely from europe, and get a pat or two. If they go amiss, then I dont think they will chase after him.

I am still at a loss. so I am going on this pilgrimage with snoopy only and see how he fares for 3 days. Not call him every 5 minutes. And I am so worried, he will follow us down to the car and not see us there, and then start walking and get lost in the vast mountains in the desert. There is nobody keeping a strict eye on him. And no fences at all. Now zar zar is here for one week being spayed, and nobody has called to ask if she is ok. But she is a happy dog there.

So the bottom line is shall I take quanitity of life (here, locked up with me) or quality of life, where he will have fun and be freeeee, but can get lost or get sick and be put down.

I will only know when I go there. God, give me a sign. Please.

If I decide that I wouldnt be able to live with my conscience and feel like I am abandoning him in any way, I will bring him back. I will never rehome him or take him to an ASPCA ever, even if it means living in a dump. Our conscience for animals is way too big for that. Only with family or people I know will love him. And in our next posting, if there is 6 months quarantine, then there is 6 months quarantine and he will just have to live with that.

I tell people who tell me how stupid I am for taking a stray dog in, that I didnt do it to live with dogs, I do it as I have to live with my clear conscience.

Will keep you posted. Going on friday with hubby for the day. If he looks happy, will stay for a few more days to see how it goes.

I only wish God will give me a sign. Shall I take him or not. But I am taking him to a monastery, God's house. And what better place than God's house? This is what I tell myself.

If you out there have any other sentiments, please share.

luna snoops

Joey.E.CockersMommy
September 20th, 2005, 09:29 AM
Your story is amazing what a life you and your husband must lead. This is such a tough decision I really don't know what I would do in your situation. Do you know where you will be going to ahead of time can you see how receptive these new places would be to having pets.

justncase
September 20th, 2005, 11:44 AM
No one can make that decision but you. However, I have taken several phrases from your original post you may wish to reread:

"I took Zar Zar to a Christian monastery (with no fences) in the mountains, as she is healthy and happy there with the Xtian monks. She is happy there but life is basic there and she sleeps outside etc, but she is reasonably well treated, fed there. She never left the monastery. ....Now, Zar Zar and Snoops play like crazy here, unlike Snoops and Luna who NEVER play together. .....When I see Snoops and Zar Zar play like crazy, I just have tears in my eyes, as they are so lovely......He loves the outdoors, walks etc. ...The monks live an austere life so they dont want pampered pets....(however) they even ask me when I am bringing him. ....there is another old dog there who has been there for about 6 years, in good health, happily living away. "

You seem to have two concerns:

1.) what happens if Snoops tries to run away?
Did Zar Zar? And she didn't have her brother there with her as Snoops will have her there with him.

2.) what happens if Snoops gets ill?
What happens if Zar Zar gets ill? What happens if Snoops gets ill where you are mov ing to? What happens if Snoops can't adapt to where you are relocating? Can one really " cover all the bases"?

lunasnoopy
September 20th, 2005, 12:54 PM
thanks for the advice.

the questions are:

1. What if snoops runs away. No zar zar didnt run away, but she was a pup when we took her, and only 3 weeks with us until we found her this monastery so she wasnt completely attached to us.

2. What if snoops gets ill? Hmmm. He will be put down if he gets serious. Yes, he can get sick anywhere, or run over anytime, even with us.

The next posting first choices are US (houston) and Dubai, as my husband is in the oil industry. Dubai seems ok with the landlords, as no landlords in dubai will refuse oil people. It is 120 degrees all day and so no long walks, and no country side to walk around without a leash. Houston, maybe a challenge for landlords. I dont want to live in a dump really really really. I only want to live in a nice nice house and not be told by the landlord to go away. Our housing allowance in Houston will be 3000 dollars, so it is substantial.

And another piece of info. I called the head priest today (italian roman catholic) and said dont worry, zar zar has been with me for the spaying operation. He said oh, zar zar with you, didnt even notice. Oh dear, this worries me.

Last piece of info, Zar Zar has had two puppies in the monastery (now 3 months old) so she does have company, not only snoops for company.

Zar Zar and snoops running around in the garden, luna is sitting on daddy's lap watching tv. Usual nightime routine.

Please share more thoughts with me.....

Lucky Rescue
September 20th, 2005, 01:45 PM
Last piece of info, Zar Zar has had two puppies in the monastery (now 3 months old) so she does have company, not only snoops for company.

Will those puppies be spayed/neutered? IF not, this situation could get out of hand.

But I am taking him to a monastery, God's house. And what better place than God's house?

Realistically speaking, this is a building with people living in it. If anything happens to the dogs, no divine intervention will save them.

If you end up in Houston, maybe it would be better to take Snoops with you, take your time and try to find him a wonderful home. There are rescues there who could help you with this.

lunasnoopy
September 20th, 2005, 02:59 PM
Yes, I am going to bring pups home to spay them.

Just out of curiosity, can I spay them at 5 months, as I am leaving when pups are 5 months and I want to make sure the spaying is done. One girl and one boy.

melanie
September 20th, 2005, 05:21 PM
well its wonderful to hear this story, not the troubles yoru having, butt he fact that you care for animals and have done this, in your shoes i assure you i would have done the same. i could not lvie like that either. you make me all warm and fuzy, just knowing there are ppl like you out there is very reassuring, were not alone. thank you so much, it will go well toward your karma i assure you. :angel:

now i like lucky rescues ideas. either leave them be, or even better, take him with you and see if you can get a place in america or dubai, and if you cant get one in america then find a good rescue, its the same as leaving him there but he has better chances of having a full life. and that way you may also be able to track his progress and safety.

as far as the heat of dubai, well you could walhim early morning or early evening (being safe of course) and if your in a safe area perhaps you could play in your yard at night or such, dogs are pretty flexible like that. in australia it certainly does get very hot, and during summers i just try and find cool alternatives, even if that mean less walks and more time inside playing.

i think that is a great option, but it is up to you, but it sounds to me that alternative will suit you and the dog, it does not sound like you have a great deal of confidence in leaving him, so thats what i suggest. good luck and you will choose the right thing in time.

as far as spaying at 5mths, yeah im sure thats fine, mine was done at 3mths (a bit early really), so i think 5mths is fine and a wonderful thing for you to do.

your a true doggy angel :angel:

lunasnoopy
September 21st, 2005, 12:26 AM
Hubby says no its final, we keep him. finish. If dubai, we find full time household help, or in Houston, we keep him or find him a fab home, better home than us or forget it. No ASPCA. We will buy a house in houston if necessary if we find that landlords discriminate us.

Zar Zar going back to her pups on friday. She is so lovely. She is a church dog and not once in the 7 days she was here, did she bark! Just plays outside with snoopy (it is like 25 degrees centigrade in syria).

by the way, pix of snoops attached. When he comes into my bedroom and begs me with his big brown eyes to say good morning and mama, please let me out in the garden, how can I even think of taking him to the church?

One pix of snoopers with his cast when we found him as a puppy with brown zar zar, and took him home. Look how skinny his body was and how big his head is, so we called him snoopy. One picture below is of him fully grown on my carpet....

lunasnoopy
September 21st, 2005, 12:33 AM
pix of him at home.....fully grown up.

By the way, the other pix of when he was a baby, his sister Zar Zar (brown one) is next to him.

Sneaky
September 21st, 2005, 02:19 PM
What a beautiful dog!!!
I have never seen a dog look quite like him.
I think it is fabulous that you have decided to keep him.
I think you should have faith and believe that Zar Zar will
be ok with her pups!
They seem to have a good, safe home, and unless you decide to take
them with you, just try to believe they will be ok.
Best of luck to you and your hubby in your move
and best of luck with Zar Zar and her pups!

chico2
September 21st, 2005, 04:17 PM
Lunasnoopy,I don't think you'll have much trouble in Houston,$3.000 house-allowance is very good and you'll probably be able to pick and choose the right one.
As for Dubai,one of the richest countries in the world,you and the dogs will be fine with the heat..we've had +34C this summer and I am certain Dubai has airconditioning.Snoops will be fine as long as he is with you and your husband.If you choose to find him a home in Houston,I am sure some people here can help you out.
I am glad your husband made the right decision,Snoops is a beautiful dog,I can see how you love him to bits.
Be very careful in choosing carriers for the airplane,get the strongest and safest you can afford.
Also,please keep us posted,yours is a very interesting story and I love to hear from you even when you are in Houston :love:

lunasnoopy
September 22nd, 2005, 12:59 AM
Oh Lord

I pray that you will find my husband a good posting. In a dog friendly place with nice non-discriminatory-housing-for dogs, a garden, no quarantine for the dogs and total happiness for my dogs snoops and luna.

and a part-time job for me (so I dont overthink things about my dogs) so that I have something to do but I can still be at home for my dogsters.

Please please pray for us! Dubai or Houston will be great! I hope they reckon my husband is the best candidate for the jobs he applied to in these places!


Will keep you posted where we go! Waiting and waiting for the decision.