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I need some encouragement

Copper'sMom
September 14th, 2005, 01:21 PM
Hi all

I am having an extremely difficult time accepting the new laws - probably because I don't want to accept them. With all the stories everyone has been posting about muzzles and fighting the ban etc, I start to break down and cry. I don't want to deal with it! I am having such a hard time with all of this. My biggest thing is having to muzzle my dogs - especially Copper(my first(Pit Bull and my first very own dog) and my oldest). I just can't think of putting a muzzle on him, it breaks my heart.

I tried a muzzle on Zoe one day at the pet store(after the lady tells me I better not get caught being out in public with her without a muzzle on :mad: ). It was a nylon muzzle and she just sat there looking at me with her big brown eyes. I knelt down to her and said "Give mommy a kiss" and she stuck her tongue out and gave a little lick. It broke my heart because she didn't wiggle her bum like normal when giving a kiss.

I don't like the cage muzzles because they look absolutely awful and I don't want the nylon muzzle because it really seems like they can't open their mouth. Which ever I decide to buy, I am going to decorate it so it at least looks pretty - if it's possible.

I have been very lucky so far, I haven't been harassed or yelled at by complete strangers for owning these dogs. I don't get dirty looks or snide remarks either. I am thankful for that and feel absolutely awful for those of you who have had encounters with ignorant people. It's so not fair.

I've just been so emotional over the last few weeks and also feel guilty for feeling the way I have been. So many people in New Orleans and surrounding areas have lost their beloved pets and may never get them back, but yet here I am feeling sorry for myself and what I have to deal with. My heart is aching for what you folks in London are going through right now too. Why are we being punished and ridiculed for something we love so much??

Obviously, I will comply with the new laws because I don't want to chance losing my dogs. If my dogs were taken away from me, so would my heart and soul.

You are all so brave for muzzling your dogs and I feel so weak. This whole situation drains every ounce of energy out of me.

happycats
September 14th, 2005, 01:33 PM
This just shows what a big heart you have!! and that you truly LOVE you furbabies :love: .

I feel for you (and everyone else who is going through this BSL) maybe if everyone keeps writting, emailing and calling their MP's things will change, I hope for all of you it will.

As for the muzzle .....will a halti do? it looks like a muzzle ;) .

Luvmypit
September 14th, 2005, 01:40 PM
Copper'sMom

Don't you worry! I know how you feel and so do many others. At least were not doing this alone. Our dogs may not understand and well either do we really but they don't truly take offence. It really sucks because i wish I could say something that will encourage you. I don't have much but all I can tell you is were all here together and sooner or later for all this fighting and writing we have done we will get our day.

The dogs will get theres too. I really despise this muzzle thing and we all know how unfair it is. Moreover we know that this is wrong, we know the truth about these animals and that is what makes it soo damn hard. Having to comply with something that you absolutly don't agree with.

:grouphug: Lets just pray for the best, kiss our dogs more and fight harder. Take that despair and turn it into something. Everytime you feel such a thing get up and write a letter to your MPP, newspaper, or whatever. So what they don't read it, but maybe they will. Maybe yours will be the letter they decide to read.

Dogastrophe
September 14th, 2005, 01:49 PM
Does the regulation state the type of muzzle you must use? The "Comfort Muzzle" is very similiar to a halti / gental leader in appearance. It should give the muzzle protection without giving the muzzle look.

It is encouraging that there are so many ppl, like yourself, who are willing to endure the foolishness of this law to keep your pups around rather than taking the easy way out. Keep at it. :thumbs up

Lucky Rescue
September 14th, 2005, 01:59 PM
I am so SO sorry that you and your innocent pets are being persecuted in this insane way.:(

The thought of muzzling my sweet Chloe (who has never even given anyone a dirty look!) and taking her out this way - like some dangerous beast that the public needs protection from - is unthinkable and I just cannot imagine how badly you feel.

You must use a basket muzzle, such as racing greyhounds wear. This is the only humane type that a dog can wear for more than 5 minutes and allows them to pant.

There is nothing good about any of this, but as I've said - your dogs are better off muzzled with you than they would be in a shelter where they would surely die.

I"m just so sorry I don't know what else to say!:(

bluntman
September 14th, 2005, 02:09 PM
This is really hard on us all as oct 28th gets closer, My girls go right into a state of deprestion as soon as I put a muzzle on them, they have no joy in them at all. So I have decided that the back yard will have to do untill this law is killed. Mercedes will continue to come to work with me, and Zena will stay with mom. I believe that walking through the neighberhood with two muzzled pits, will just reinforce peoples negitive views and steriotypes of the breed, and I do not want to do that. I know some have no choice but to walk there dogs in public, and compliance is a must for there sake, even if enforcment is slim to none.

On the brite side Coopers mom, our dogs can still be at our workplace, muzzle free, showing everyone that comes in what pits are really like, warm, loving, compationate,wiggle butts, that have no idea what all the fuss is about.

"All creatures great and small", is a local pet store dead set against this ban, they have a suplier that is makeing custom leather muzzles in all kinds of colours, and graphics,and so on, so our dogs don't look like hannible lector. I will look into it more, and see if I can get some contact info.

Conners
September 14th, 2005, 02:33 PM
Does the regulation state the type of muzzle you must use? The "Comfort Muzzle" is very similiar to a halti / gental leader in appearance. It should give the muzzle protection without giving the muzzle look.

It is encouraging that there are so many ppl, like yourself, who are willing to endure the foolishness of this law to keep your pups around rather than taking the easy way out. Keep at it. :thumbs up
We all are a mess over this and if we appear to be strong, believe me, I had my one day of crying on here too, but with the help of others and a looong sleep cuddled up to Shasta, gave me back the strength to fight again. You are NOT alone! :grouphug:
As for the comfort muzzle, that is what I have for Shasta. She accepts her halti, so I expected she wouldn't be too stressed out by it.
When I put it on her, this is what I saw.
From this: http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6999/762/400/IMG_02281.JPG
To this:http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6999/762/400/shasta2.jpg
I cried as I had NEVER seen her look so sad and felt as bad as you.
Someone mentioned the halti and no, I read somewhere where the gentle leaders and halti's are not to be used as muzzles, or I wouldn't change.
I don't want Shasta to look like Hannible Lector neither and am thinking of making my own in a soft peach or mint green, soft leather. Similar to a halti, but with the added enforcements they require. My baby will not look anything but the sweet thing she is as long as I have my way. Creativity is the answer I guess. Follow their rules, but ust to the point that you have to and make it as comfortable for your babe as possible.

BMDLuver
September 14th, 2005, 02:47 PM
This is a version of the comfort muzzle. Looks very much like a halti to me and seems much less restrictive to your dog?

sammiec
September 14th, 2005, 02:53 PM
This is a version of the comfort muzzle. Looks very much like a halti to me and seems much less restrictive to your dog?

That's the muzzle that I bought. I truly believe in the cage muzzles because they are best for the sasfety and comfort for the animals.. .but when I put one on her I began to cry.. they just look so horrible. I opted for the one that BMD shows. I bought it at PetsMart for 11.00.
She hates having something around her muzzle, but I am not willing to go with nothing... I don't want to lose my dog over this! :( She's slowly coming along.. and doesn't pull at it as much anymore.

mom of rotties
September 14th, 2005, 02:55 PM
I wish I could do something to help all of you in this fight, and if there is please let me know. It breaks my heart to think that all these loving dogs will be treated this way. I will admit the first time I met a pitbull I had reservations about going in the house.I did and could not believe what a lovey, kissy slobber puss this dog was. Changed my mind forever.Children and dogs are the same. A product of their enviroment.My heart goes out to all of you.

Dogastrophe
September 14th, 2005, 02:56 PM
That was the one I was thinking of, just couldn't find a decent picture of it.

SpanielLuver
September 14th, 2005, 03:02 PM
This is just so insane, I cant believe in 2005 we are still living the dark ages because of some people's stupidity all these dogs are being made scapegoats. I truly believe that some people should be muzzled not the dogs. At least the muzzle BMDLuver suggest gives the dogs some form of dignity. My little shih-tzu, who I have because we could never adopt him out is more of a problem than any pitbull we have come across but I bet if I took him out with a big muzzle on him, people would blast me for being so cruel to the cute little thing. :mad:

Conners
September 14th, 2005, 03:03 PM
Coppers Mom, I'm not allowing any law to dictate to Shasta's happiness. One thing to remember, you are not the only one going to be walking a muzzled dog. Any dog I see muzzled, I will ask the owner first of course, and then let that dog know he/she is still as beautiful and loving as ever. I would hope they would do the same for Shasta.
On a positive note, I thought as of Aug 29th, they had to be muzzled, so I did and only found out recently that we didn't need to until Oct. 28th. So now I will slowly wean her on it.
But since I got off track, I wanted to let you know, I never came across negative people. Instead I met compassionate people patting Shasta and telling me what a shame this muzzling of wonderful pets are and how unfair.
Also, as hard as it is, try not to show your hurt feelings onto your dogs. They sence it from you. Instead pat, reward and encourage them how beautiful they are and take it off immediately when not needed and give plenty of hugs and pats saying how good they were.
I read some information from John Wade that I wish I had of bookmarked o I would send you the addy, but he said they sense your mood about the muzzles. As hard as it is right now, try to think about it as you would a collar and a leash. Hard yes, but for your dogs sake, we have to try.

BullLover
September 14th, 2005, 04:06 PM
Muzzles Suck!!!!!

chico2
September 14th, 2005, 05:01 PM
Connors,Shastas sad face just brought me to tears,but the muzzle/leader she has on does not look too bad.
I actually always thought the"gentle leader"was a muzzle,maybe other people do too..
The whole thing is sickening and insane,but Michael Bryant will get his due one day :evil:
Coppers mom,I so understand how you feel,it's like punishing your dog for doing nothing wrong :sad: and I am sure it breaks your heart to do so :sad: I am soooo sorry for all the pitties out there.

babyrocky1
September 14th, 2005, 05:27 PM
Hey Coppers Mom , I feel the same way, and have been feeling this for months as youknow. Rocky, believe it or not, prefers the plastic cage muzzle to anything else. The only way I can stand to do it is for short periods of time, for him and me. Knowing your situation, Im asuming that there wont be too many times when you would have to muzzle your pups, as you have yards etc. My advice to you is get the plastic cage muzzle, that way you KNOW that Copper is at least safe. Put it on him and then reward him for wearing it. Do it NOW so that you will know what its like and that it can be done when necessary, but it you wait till near the dead lline it will be more dramatic and traumatic. The dead-line will be permanet, until we get this appealed. So my way of coping is okay, Ill do this now while Im still in control and if I feel like I don't want him to wear it, like today, I thought it was too hot. Then I still have leaway. I dont know if that makes any sense or not but its easier to feel like you are doing it without the proverbial gun to your head and you can take it off any time you feel the need.( I inquired about the comfort muzzle but was told that Toronto at least wouldn't probably wouldn't accept it, also, it is not healthy for your dog to wear for longer periods of time) another reason for trying them out now is so that you can see how they will adjust with a bit of time, for instance I thought Rockys cage muzzle fit him but then I realised that with some wear it is actually too big and was rubbing on his nose...luckily the ban isn't in place yet so I was able to take it off immediately!) Now that I kow he will atleast tolerate a muzzle, I actually thought he would completely refuse to walk etc. I havent been using it much and Im looking at this as "free time" I have already noticed that I cant exercise him as much as I used to. I still have the yard to take him to but it is in a very desolate area so I cant really go there at night. Also I cant see muzzling him just for a walk cause thers no reward in it. He will be expecting me to take it off at some point during the walk. Im going to have to completely rethink his life. I have been thinking of exercising him indoors. This is sooo crazy :eek:

babyrocky1
September 14th, 2005, 05:38 PM
"All creatures great and small", is a local pet store dead set against this ban, they have a suplier that is makeing custom leather muzzles in all kinds of colours, and graphics,and so on, so our dogs don't look like hannible lector. I will look into it more, and see if I can get some contact info.Hey Bluntman that store your talking about, I think I know the owner, she used to run a pit bull rescue called People for Pit bulls. I called her when Rocky was a "teenager and she gave me some great advice on how to deal with him. Shes very dedicated to the breed and was at the Vigel in Toronto. The muzzles that your talking about are the same ones that Spurby had on Animal House calls. I think you can go to a web site to get them from the supllier but I dont know the site address, there are probably no stores that sell them in Coppers Moms neck of the woods.. I think the company name is Hot Dogs All Dressed. Rocky has the purple one with yellow hearts but it still looks Hanibal Lectorish, they say that because its leather it will soften and mold to their faces.

Conners
September 14th, 2005, 06:17 PM
Connors,Shastas sad face just brought me to tears,but the muzzle/leader she has on does not look too bad.

It's only a temporary muzzle, so I will have to buy one or two more depending on whether I am walking her or if we are bike riding together. (She runs. I ride. LOL) I thought because it was so much like her halti she wouldn't mind, but they feel valnerable, knowing they couldn't defend themselves if they needed to.
There was an incident where a dog growls. Maybe the muzzle frightened him. Anyway, Shasta totally paniced trying deprately to get it off of her. I removed it and the two of them kissed. I don't like that this is going to frighten our dogs! BUT...I know it won't be any time real soon, but I KNOW in my heart of hearts Michael Bryants Bill is going to be amendened, then we can all have a giant bomb fire party and burn the muzzles!!!
Try to thing temparary and positive. If any petitions are going around...SIGN THEM. Hand them out! The more signatures we can collect for Cayton Ruby and the PetBulls...the more voice we have!

Joey.E.CockersMommy
September 14th, 2005, 06:57 PM
=Spaniellover

My little shih-tzu, who I have because we could never adopt him out is more of a problem than any pitbull we have come across but I bet if I took him out with a big muzzle on him, people would blast me for being so cruel to the cute little thing.

My Joey (English Cocker spaniel) that looks harmless has been known to growl at my kids on occasion. It is so unfair the pitties are the ones that get subjected to this muzzle law.

Conners , Shasta does look sad I can see it in her eyes.

gdamadg
September 14th, 2005, 08:43 PM
It really bothers putting Sprint's muzzle on, but he is adjusting well. He actually plays with his ball outside with it on. Pushes it around with his nose and tries to grab it with his paws, just like a cat. It is sad at first when you look at it. But his tail is wagging and he is having fun.

Conners
September 14th, 2005, 09:06 PM
=Spaniellover



My Joey (English Cocker spaniel) that looks harmless has been known to growl at my kids on occasion. It is so unfair the pitties are the ones that get subjected to this muzzle law.

Conners , Shasta does look sad I can see it in her eyes.
Yes, and believe me when I saw those eyes it just about broke my heart. I try to act positive like the behaviourist said, but it's so hard to feel like you're trying to look and they feel what we feel.
Does anyone have pics of the muzzles they are using that their dogs are enjoying? Maybe we should look at the ones that are tried and true.
Shasta would never harm anyone or anything. Therefore, I only want to go to what the requirements are, but no more than that. Naturally we can pretty them up, but our kids are the ones that need to feel good about themselves. If I saw one that made Shasta happy wearing, then that's the one I would get her. Does anyone have website of muzzles that looks like theirs or where they got them from?

love my dogs
September 14th, 2005, 09:52 PM
I don't know how encouraging this is, but I thought it was kind of ironic.....

Yesterday I went down to animal control to have my dog licences transfered to City Of London (because I recently moved here and my tags were from another city).

Daisy is border collie/dalmation cross, and Duke is an american red nosed pitbull terrier.

I only noticed on the way there, when I was looking at my papers that Daisy's licence said "shepherd cross", and her vaccination record says "rotti cross".

What the? ??

So when I had the licence transferred, I told the lady that Dasiy is actually a border collie cross, and she changed it on my new licence. But it would seem that everyone thinks Daisy is something different.....just goes to show how this whole bsl thing is so ridiculous. I already know Duke is a pittie, but what if rotti's or shepherds are added to the list, will I have to worry about misidentification?

All I can do is shake my head :confused:

By the way, I have ordered one of the leather muzzles from all creatures, but I have not yet received it, so I don't know how Duke will feel about it yet. I do know how much he loves his "hose me down after I've been swimming in the slimey pond" muzzle (sarcasm)......actually, he can take that one off in no time flat.....I hope this leather muzzle has more staying power!

Conners
September 14th, 2005, 10:20 PM
I don't know how encouraging this is, but I thought it was kind of ironic.....

Yesterday I went down to animal control to have my dog licences transfered to City Of London (because I recently moved here and my tags were from another city).

Daisy is border collie/dalmation cross, and Duke is an american red nosed pitbull terrier.

I only noticed on the way there, when I was looking at my papers that Daisy's licence said "shepherd cross", and her vaccination record says "rotti cross".

What the? ??

So when I had the licence transferred, I told the lady that Dasiy is actually a border collie cross, and she changed it on my new licence. But it would seem that everyone thinks Daisy is something different.....just goes to show how this whole bsl thing is so ridiculous. I already know Duke is a pittie, but what if rotti's or shepherds are added to the list, will I have to worry about misidentification?

All I can do is shake my head :confused:

By the way, I have ordered one of the leather muzzles from all creatures, but I have not yet received it, so I don't know how Duke will feel about it yet. I do know how much he loves his "hose me down after I've been swimming in the slimey pond" muzzle (sarcasm)......actually, he can take that one off in no time flat.....I hope this leather muzzle has more staying power!
Don't have to worry about the shepards. Michael Bryant has TWO! :angel:
I had a collie X that looked like a collie, but she got out accidently one day as it was too late to spay her once she went in heat. It turned out she only had one pup. The pup was identical to her father. So now I had a collie X and a shepard X. Figure that one out. :rolleyes:

Conners
September 14th, 2005, 10:24 PM
Luv My Dogs...what does the leather muzzles from all creatures look like? Is it on the net?

StaceyB
September 14th, 2005, 10:49 PM
I posted a link in the muzzle thread for a place to order the comfort muzzle if you can't find it in your area. I would colour in the white lettering and you could probably decorate it if you wanted.

Conners
September 14th, 2005, 11:36 PM
I posted a link in the muzzle thread for a place to order the comfort muzzle if you can't find it in your area. I would colour in the white lettering and you could probably decorate it if you wanted.
I have the comfort muzzle only mine is nylon with velcrove. You say they also come in leather? Do they buckle or are they velcrove too?

Akeeter
September 15th, 2005, 01:01 AM
I hear yah! Between the muzzling, & some serious personal stuff, & New Orleans, I have been in a Blue Funk too! (I have been reading the frustatration of the Louisiana Pet Rescuers on the NOLA-Times-Picayune chatboards & it makes you want to just scream. :eek: )

Anne Rice, author of 'Interview With a Vampire' etc sat out the whole disaster in her big house in the French quarter. No one demaded that she leave, or dump her pets. But that area was reasonably dry.

I know that you are a good & responsible pet owner & I'm hoping that the court challenges will help all the Pitty/Staffy owners to get back to a better, more normal situation with their dogs. I'm glad that you are not getting flack when you walk your dogs.

bluntman
September 15th, 2005, 12:29 PM
Hey Bluntman that store your talking about, I think I know the owner, she used to run a pit bull rescue called People for Pit bulls. I called her when Rocky was a "teenager and she gave me some great advice on how to deal with him. Shes very dedicated to the breed and was at the Vigel in Toronto. The muzzles that your talking about are the same ones that Spurby had on Animal House calls. I think you can go to a web site to get them from the supllier but I dont know the site address, there are probably no stores that sell them in Coppers Moms neck of the woods.. I think the company name is Hot Dogs All Dressed. Rocky has the purple one with yellow hearts but it still looks Hanibal Lectorish, they say that because its leather it will soften and mold to their faces.
Yes, thats her, and she still runs the "People for pits rescue" She is a fantastic woman. I would love to lock her in a room with Bryant for five minutes, believe you me, a different man would walk out that door! I'm going to her store tonite to get the site address, for people who want a custom muzzle, not an off the shelf one. I decided to get Mercedes one, hopefully I will never have to put it on her, but I was thinking we should all send Bryant our useless muzzles once this law is defeated, with a short note "number 16, number 16".

Spurby
September 15th, 2005, 03:35 PM
Here is the link to the Hotdogsalldressed muzzles
http://www.hotdogsalldressed.com/en/specialties.html

You cannot order directly through them. You will need to find a store that carries them close to you to order them for you, which is what i did. Or, you can ask your local pet store to order them if they don't sell them. Mine fits my dog perfectly, and she can pant very well.I also prefer the hotdogsalldressed muzzles because their nose is free to sniff the ground, and there is an opening to give treats in the mouth area, the basket ones do not have this. The basket type are very good as well, BUT, they are made generally for greyhounds and GSD's, so many do not fit the bullies muzzle correctly, again, you will have to find one and properly fit it. They also don't look half as good as the leather ones.

Spurby
September 15th, 2005, 03:43 PM
Also, i really don't know much about these "comfort muzzles" but i highly doubt they are acceptable for use on our pit bulls in regards to this legislation. The people enforcing this bill will be very well versed as to what is acceptable or not, and i wouldn't take any chances, they CAN confiscate your dog for failing to comply.

Copper'sMom
September 15th, 2005, 04:09 PM
Thanks everyone :grouphug: I have always been a very stubborn person in certain ways and this most certainly is one of them. But yes, I have to do what I have to do to keep my dogs.
Conners, as soon as I saw Shasta's pic with the muzzle on I began to cry. I can't help it - every time I see a pic with a muzzle on this happens. The comfort muzzle doesn't looks so bad, but the look in Shasta's eyes does. I am hoping to go to London this month to look for muzzles as I don't have many options where I live - I can either get a nylon muzzle or the metal cage muzzle. :mad: I've been searching for someone in my area who will make me a leather muzzle(coloured) but no luck. Any recommendations of pet stores in London??

I did buy a nylon muzzle and brought it home to try it on Copper as I didn't want to try it on him at the pet store. Thank goodness it was waay to big for him it covered his eyes! I didn't even do it up around his head. I guess I'll have to take it back to the store :) . It was one size bigger than the one that was put on Zoe the other day, so I don't see the size 3 fitting him either. :confused:

I've been looking at the leather muzzles from Hot Dogs All Dressed. The thing I don't like about them is the straps in front of the dog's mouth. The nose sticks out the mouth is completely covered. Is this the one you have BAbyrocky?? Do they have the caged muzzles in different colours?

I'm worried about ordering them online. Two dogs, two different sizes and a variety of muzzles. And Zoe isn't done growing yet!!!!$$$$

lezzpezz
September 15th, 2005, 04:20 PM
Hey Conners! Where did you buy your Comfort Muzzle?? Bulllover just asked me this the other day. I see that Shasta has one on, (looks sad :sad: ). Can you email BullLover, (if she hasn't already asked you!), and let her know where you got it?

Ta for now :cool:

Copper'sMom
September 15th, 2005, 04:23 PM
Hey Conners! Where did you buy your Comfort Muzzle?? Bulllover just asked me this the other day. I see that Shasta has one on, (looks sad :sad: ). Can you email BullLover, (if she hasn't already asked you!), and let her know where you got it?

Ta for now :cool:

I'd like to know too!

debanneball
September 15th, 2005, 05:19 PM
My heart breaks for all of you. It's so sad to read about the fact that you are ordered to muzzle your dogs. You should all get together and write that Michael Bryant..or whoever and demand a pit-bull dog park. then you could let them run free, and play....

babyrocky1
September 15th, 2005, 05:50 PM
Coppers Mom, I bought the leather one that Spurby is talking about, somewhere it is posted that the Humane society reccomends the plastic cage, not metal. I don't know what I would have done with a metal one cause when they try to get it off and you know they do! they rub it on the ground and anywhere else they can think of. I think the reason that Rocky tolerates the plastic better is because it is lighter, on the other hand, after reading Spurbys post about the cages being designed more for shepherds heads, I am now wondering if that is why Im having a problem with it rubbing his nose. I thought it was too big but it could be the shape. Anyway I bought leather muzzle from the pet store in Toronto that Spurbys friend owns. They ordered it from Hot dogs all dressed because the standard ones didn't fit Rocky, had to do a special order, but my long winded point is that paid for the muzzle through the store but it was sent to me froom the company. Five bucks for shipping. So you could do the same thing, the only problem is that Copper wouldn't be able to try it first. Maybe if you call the stores they will think of some sort of return deal for you. These are all very pit bull friendly stores so Im expecting that they will go out of there way for you. Also they might be able to refer you to a store closer to you that might handle Sooo what if you were to call either the Pet store in Toronto which I will find the name for, or if Spurby sees this she can tell you and order it through them. I aso have a friend who owns the Dog Lounge, she can order it for you too. All Creatures Great and Small is even further but if your just going to get it shipped it doesn't much matter. I think they might be able to do it with Coppers Measurements...you saw these on City TV. Yes they come in great colours and have cute decorations but once there on the dog, well it is what it is :love:breaking! (BTW I think that these leather muzzles are clled Muzzles for the Misunderstood.)

love my dogs
September 15th, 2005, 06:34 PM
If your going to try one of the leather ones from hotdogsalldressed, they don't sell them in London anywhere, so you would have to order it.

If you do come to London, there is Superpet and Petsmart both right off the 401 on Wellington Rd., but I don't know what type of a selection they have, there wasn't much last I checked.

Conners
September 15th, 2005, 06:47 PM
If your going to try one of the leather ones from hotdogsalldressed, they don't sell them in London anywhere, so you would have to order it.

If you do come to London, there is Superpet and Petsmart both right off the 401 on Wellington Rd., but I don't know what type of a selection they have, there wasn't much last I checked.
I checked out the website of the face ones, but where are the leather ones that look like the comfort muzzle? Even the dog in the picture didn't look too happy wearing it, although it looked less Hannible Lector than most I've seen...and much prettier with the colours.

Conners
September 15th, 2005, 06:49 PM
If your going to try one of the leather ones from hotdogsalldressed, they don't sell them in London anywhere, so you would have to order it.

If you do come to London, there is Superpet and Petsmart both right off the 401 on Wellington Rd., but I don't know what type of a selection they have, there wasn't much last I checked.
Petsmart is where I got my comfort muzzle. All the stores were all sold out for our type dogs because the suppliers couldn't keep up the demand to the retailers due to all this NONSENCE! :mad:

Conners
September 15th, 2005, 06:53 PM
My heart breaks for all of you. It's so sad to read about the fact that you are ordered to muzzle your dogs. You should all get together and write that Michael Bryant..or whoever and demand a pit-bull dog park. then you could let them run free, and play....
Demanding ANYTHING from Michael Bryant regarding a breed he HATES so passionately and wants to terminate out of extiction is like asking him to hand you a million dollars. Just Ain't gonna happen!

babyrocky1
September 15th, 2005, 07:06 PM
Conners, I dont think the comfort muzzles come in leather, the leather people are talking about is refering to the ones on the web-site that you saw. Rocky has the one from the web-site as well as the plastic one. I was told that Toronto wouldn't accept the comfort muzzle.

Conners
September 15th, 2005, 07:20 PM
Conners, I dont think the comfort muzzles come in leather, the leather people are talking about is refering to the ones on the web-site that you saw. Rocky has the one from the web-site as well as the plastic one. I was told that Toronto wouldn't accept the comfort muzzle.
I am confused!!! :confused: In post 7 I posted pictures of Shasta in hers. In post 8 was the same muzzle but in leather...I thought??? Am I wrong??? :confused:

mastifflover
September 15th, 2005, 07:29 PM
I feel so bad when I see these poor dogs having to wear muzzles.
I was told that Toronto wouldn't accept the comfort muzzle.
Well if Toronto does not like them TFB it is a muzzle and if there is a problem tell the city of Toronto to supply them. The Village Idiot Michael Bryant should be doing something useful like dealing with gun violence and other important issues like gangs etc. But I guess he does not really have any idea what an AG does except collect an over inflated pay cheque like most of the lieberals

babyrocky1
September 15th, 2005, 07:38 PM
Yes, thats her, and she still runs the "People for pits rescue" She is a fantastic woman. I would love to lock her in a room with Bryant for five minutes, believe you me, a different man would walk out that door! I'm going to her store tonite to get the site address, for people who want a custom muzzle, not an off the shelf one. I decided to get Mercedes one, hopefully I will never have to put it on her, but I was thinking we should all send Bryant our useless muzzles once this law is defeated, with a short note "number 16, number 16".haha....that would be something to see, lol! I first saw her on City tv, I guess about five years ago. There was a big pbull controversy going on then. She was being interviewed and she was so articulate and impressive.
Rocky is my first dog and when i got him I didn't know he was a "pit bull" (he was only 7 weeks when I brought him home. I read some books and took him to puppy school, got him nuetered and socialised him like crazy. I thought he was all grown up and trained! When he started to show some indication of his toy possesive problem, I flipped out and thought I was in way over my head! Although he had been to formal training, there was no mention of anything like this! Anyway I remembered seeing her on the show and so I called People for Pit Bulls and talked to her for about an hour. She was so great and really saved us... Helped me calm down and told me all about the Alpha stuff. I dont know what I would have done if it hadn't been for her and it was so kind of her to talk to give her time to a total stranger like that. Anyway I have met her a few times lately through all of this ban stuff and she doesn't even remember the conversation but I will be grateful to her forever! Im glad to hear you have those kind of resources near you. It helps to have good people in the vicinity :)

babyrocky1
September 15th, 2005, 07:45 PM
I just checked out post 8. I dont think that that is leather. I think its made from canvas or something. I could be wrong you cant really tell what its made from by that picture. Why do you want a leather comfort muzzle though?

Conners
September 15th, 2005, 07:55 PM
I just checked out post 8. I dont think that that is leather. I think its made from canvas or something. I could be wrong you cant really tell what its made from by that picture. Why do you want a leather comfort muzzle though?
I thought it would be more comfortable than the nylon and valgrove. It gets itself all tangled up and you have to keep pulling it apart to use it, plus she doesn't have the same snout as that other dog has and it's closer to her eyes.
In London, they only said, muzzle (as in breathable, drinkable and safe for the dog). I personally want to make one myself for her. More on the lines of the halti, but with two leather adjustable straps for the snout and of course to go with her fawn colour. Soft leather in a pale peach or a mint green. My baby deserves the very best, so who better to design her one as Mommy! :p

Conners
September 15th, 2005, 07:59 PM
I feel so bad when I see these poor dogs having to wear muzzles.
I was told that Toronto wouldn't accept the comfort muzzle.
Well if Toronto does not like them TFB it is a muzzle and if there is a problem tell the city of Toronto to supply them. The Village Idiot Michael Bryant should be doing something useful like dealing with gun violence and other important issues like gangs etc. But I guess he does not really have any idea what an AG does except collect an over inflated pay cheque like most of the lieberals
:party: Once we WIN this thing we can have a massive bomb fire and burn them all. Let the newspapers take pics of THAT in our VICTORY!!!

babyrocky1
September 15th, 2005, 08:17 PM
I thought it would be more comfortable than the nylon and valgrove. It gets itself all tangled up and you have to keep pulling it apart to use it, plus she doesn't have the same snout as that other dog has and it's closer to her eyes.
In London, they only said, muzzle (as in breathable, drinkable and safe for the dog). I personally want to make one myself for her. More on the lines of the halti, but with two leather adjustable straps for the snout and of course to go with her fawn colour. Soft leather in a pale peach or a mint green. My baby deserves the very best, so who better to design her one as Mommy! :p you have a good point, if you can come up with a design, how hard can it be to have it custom made? Please share if you come up with something :) I know you would and I didn't have to ask LOL I was just thinking today that I would like to make some adaptations to Rockys. He doesnt have the traditional wide muzzle either and I do find that the cage muzzle does come close to his eyes. Toronto hasn't said anything official about the muzzles, I was told that they may not accept the comfort muzzle because traditionally when a dog is under a "muzzle order" from the city only a cage type is accepted so the person telling me this was making an assumption that they would carry this into the provincial ban. Toronto hasn't said much of anything. No one knows whoes enforcing this so we are all trying to anticipate what they might do.

babyrocky1
September 15th, 2005, 08:33 PM
:

I've been looking at the leather muzzles from Hot Dogs All Dressed. The thing I don't like about them is the straps in front of the dog's mouth. The nose sticks out the mouth is completely covered. Is this the one you have BAbyrocky?? Do they have the caged muzzles in different colours?

I'm worried about ordering them online. Two dogs, two different sizes and a variety of muzzles. And Zoe isn't done growing yet!!!!$$$$I was just re-reading your post Coppers MOM, the mouth isn't completely covered, poor Rockys toungue was hanging out today and he can lick his nose although I don't know why he was doing that, I think its uncomfortaable around his nose but hopefully once the leather softens that will get a bit better. Theres no good answer to this, thats why I, so far, have three, and Im probably going to get a different sized plastic cage. Its just the lesser of however many evils! I switch them vack and forth, I have the nylon one, intentionally too big, but I don't use it at all. I don't like the idea of getting them on-line either but so far I cant think of any options for you, it seems like your out of luck in your area. :mad:

Conners
September 15th, 2005, 09:28 PM
you have a good point, if you can come up with a design, how hard can it be to have it custom made? Please share if you come up with something :) I know you would and I didn't have to ask LOL I was just thinking today that I would like to make some adaptations to Rockys. He doesnt have the traditional wide muzzle either and I do find that the cage muzzle does come close to his eyes. Toronto hasn't said anything official about the muzzles, I was told that they may not accept the comfort muzzle because traditionally when a dog is under a "muzzle order" from the city only a cage type is accepted so the person telling me this was making an assumption that they would carry this into the provincial ban. Toronto hasn't said much of anything. No one knows whoes enforcing this so we are all trying to anticipate what they might do.
I have it pictured in my mind so clearly, so I will buy some soft leather and a stud puncher and whatever I need and Shasta will be my model and we will see how it turns out. Then I will take pics and you gys tell me what you think. I also want to go by what Shasta thinks about it too...so as long as it fits the bill of muzzle and is comfortable for Shasta and she gives me the paw up...then you will be the first to see. :thumbs up

mastifflover
September 15th, 2005, 10:39 PM
There is a guy on Markham St. Johnny B Good in Toronto that makes custom collars and harnesses and there is another leather shop on King St. East that also does custom leathers and custom dog collars. I know Johnny makes custom harnesses as well really nice quality you could try him.

Schwinn
September 16th, 2005, 09:58 AM
I don't think Toronto has a choice of what muzzle they want to accept. A muzzle is a muzzle is a muzzle, according to the law. The way the law is written, the only muzzle they can not "accept" is one that does not allow the dog to breathe properly or drink. If they want to be picky, then they will have to re-write the law to be more specific. Until then, they can't pick and choose. Hmmm...just another reason to go to court when you get fined, I suppose!

bluntman
September 16th, 2005, 10:46 AM
Hmmm...just another reason to go to court when you get fined, I suppose!
I agree 100% shwinn a muzzle is a muzzle, and the city cannot pick and choose, but unfortunatly a fine is the least of our worries under the DOLA, any conviction under the DOLA by a pitty owner results in the dog being PTS. There are no other provisions in the act for pits other than death. This is another reason why I believe the DOLA is un-constitutional, It discrimanates against us as people based on our breed of dog. The government can discrimanates against breeds, but not the people who own them. The DOLA clearly has two sets of rules, one's for pitty owners, and one's for dog owners. So any pitty owner who falls victim to the DOLA, must fight it in court, and win, or you loose your dog. Under the DOLA a fine= death for pits, so lets hope clayton ruby kicks a$$ in court.

Conners
September 16th, 2005, 05:17 PM
I agree 100% shwinn a muzzle is a muzzle, and the city cannot pick and choose, but unfortunatly a fine is the least of our worries under the DOLA, any conviction under the DOLA by a pitty owner results in the dog being PTS. There are no other provisions in the act for pits other than death. This is another reason why I believe the DOLA is un-constitutional, It discrimanates against us as people based on our breed of dog. The government can discrimanates against breeds, but not the people who own them. The DOLA clearly has two sets of rules, one's for pitty owners, and one's for dog owners. So any pitty owner who falls victim to the DOLA, must fight it in court, and win, or you loose your dog. Under the DOLA a fine= death for pits, so lets hope clayton ruby kicks a$$ in court.
The only reason I got the one I did was because there were no others at the time in London. COMPLETELY sold out for our dogs sizes. With the comfort muzzle. it clearly said, 'MUZZLE' in the front, no doubt about it, so I bought it until I could get something else.
Now as far as the law and muzzling, when a dog attacks our muzzled dogs and they go blalistic from feeling valnurable as they can't defend ourselves, what does the law say about our rights...or our dogs right? :confused: It's bad enough that all it states is that people are allowed to walk their pit bulls in public providing they have a short leash and a muzzle on. Should you get harassed or endangered, call the police. So you have a knife in your back and your dog lays bleeding, what should we do? Ask the criminal for his cell phone? All this is BS! :( We have NO right!
Our only chance is Clayton Ruby and all the signed petitions we are gathering us. They say to keep collecting.

babyrocky1
September 16th, 2005, 09:34 PM
I finally remmebered the name of the store in Toronto that I bought Rockys leather muzzle from its Small Wonders. Had to type it now case I forget again....LOL Its on the Danforth :) They have the Comfort Muzzle as well.

StaceyB
September 16th, 2005, 10:02 PM
As far as I am concerned if it is sold in the stores as a muzzle then it should be acceptable. They can't say to have a muzzle and when you do say that it isn't good enough. The comfort muzzle doesn't come in leather just velcro. The link is in the muzzle thread. I will find where I posted it and place it here.

love my dogs
September 16th, 2005, 10:05 PM
I have a question about the comfort muzzle.

Does it allow for panting, feeding treats and drinking? It just doesn't look like the dog can open it's mouth at all.

StaceyB
September 16th, 2005, 10:14 PM
www.omahavaccine.com www.petsuppliesdelivered.com
Comfort muzzle
In the search item bar type comfort muzzle, then click on the word to bring up the pic.

StaceyB
September 16th, 2005, 10:19 PM
By adjusting the straps you can set it up lower or higher on the nose and you can have it tight or loose.

mastifflover
September 16th, 2005, 10:44 PM
This whole law is unconstitutional this means that if you are a dog owner you are not afforded the same rights as anyone else. They can enter your home because someone hates your or your dog. Also your dog is guilty by association and that is BS.

StaceyB
September 16th, 2005, 11:00 PM
I completely agree. I know the fact that this law can include jail time is the reason for the lawsuit but is it being discussed with the media that home entry is also included.

babyrocky1
September 16th, 2005, 11:05 PM
I don't think that its the fact that it can include jail time that is the reason, but the fact that it can include jail time is what makes it qualify for a challenge under the charter. Thats what I grasped from it anyway. I mean we would want jail time for people who abuse or use there animals in the commission of a crime right?

StaceyB
September 17th, 2005, 07:00 AM
Yes, that is what I meant. I was replying to the post about it being unconstitutional. I guess I should have used the word foundation to fight this law saying that it goes against our constitutional rights.

mona_b
September 17th, 2005, 11:25 AM
I know the fact that this law can include jail time is the reason for the lawsuit but is it being discussed with the media that home entry is also included.

The jail time and heavy fine is in regards to your dog attacking/biting.This goes for ANY breed now.

I've posted this link under the "cops" thread...I will post it here.

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/Statutes/English/90d16_e.htm#BK17

As for the muzzle,if I recall when they were first talking about the ban,they did state that it had to be the cage type.

One more thing,this DOLA does not just include Pits.

Me and Kayla
September 19th, 2005, 02:31 PM
Here is the link to the Hotdogsalldressed muzzles
http://www.hotdogsalldressed.com/en/specialties.html

.


Maybe it's me...but that muzzle looks horrible. How do Pitties, who tend to have very wide mouths when panting...pant in those things, not to mention..how do they drink?

Me and Kayla

Conners
September 19th, 2005, 03:16 PM
Maybe it's me...but that muzzle looks horrible. How do Pitties, who tend to have very wide mouths when panting...pant in those things, not to mention..how do they drink?

Me and Kayla
Yes and that is also in one of the requirements that the muzzles are suppost to be to let the dogs, breath properly, pant and drink. I don't see it neither.

Conners
September 19th, 2005, 03:25 PM
I brought up the home entry in the London Proposed bylaw at City Hall and asked them how the City would defend me if my dog couldn't as I live on a ground floor apartment, disabled and only weigh 80 pounds. So if an attacker were to break into my apartment and I had to save my dog from protecting me so she would not get put down and I not fined and/or jailed, ho was the city proposing on assuring my safety. Seems they never gave that one any thought when making the laws and bylaws. I'll let you know what City Hall in London comes up with that one. I mean, the safety of it's citizens IS a priority right? Isn't this the very reason Michael Bryant instilled bill 132 in the first place...for PUBLIC SAFETY!! What a crock of BULL! :(

mafiaprincess
September 19th, 2005, 05:55 PM
I saw a poor pittie in a nylon muzzle tied to a tree in chinatown last week. Dog was having issues panting in the heat. And all I wanted to do was unmuzzle her...

So far in talking to people about muzzles, so few people seem to realize that nylon ones aren't for long term wear... I'm scared for how many dogs may die from improper muzzling. :(

Conners
September 19th, 2005, 06:32 PM
So far in talking to people about muzzles, so few people seem to realize that nylon ones aren't for long term wear... I'm scared for how many dogs may die from improper muzzling. :(
Sooooo TRUE! In large BOLD letter it says on mine for the COMFORT MUZZLE.
FOR TEMPORARY MUZLLE RESTRAINT
Dog must be supervisided while wearing Comfort Muzzle.
If Comfort Muzzle becomes damaged, discard Immediately
Do not restrict breathing by over tightening around snout.

chico2
September 20th, 2005, 08:38 AM
Mafiaprincess,that's terrible,the poor dog would be totally defence-less :sad:
I would have knocked on those idiots door and told them about"the temporary muzzle"and that they could be killing their dog :evil:

StaceyB
September 20th, 2005, 09:14 AM
All dogs wearing muzzles need to be supervised. There is the risk of not breathing properly but what if your dog tried to get it off and got stuck in it.
There should really be no reason why a dog should be wearing one unsupervised anyway.

Someone breaking into your home to attack or kill you doesn't protect you if your dog bites them. This is not new and applies to all dogs. You are responsible for everything your dog does to anyone even if they were there to cause you harm.

BullLover
September 20th, 2005, 10:35 AM
I think all dogs period need to be supervised. I would have stolen their dog.... :D Well, waited for them to come back and yelled at them. Poor poochie! Hope someone brought him water.

mafiaprincess
September 20th, 2005, 10:49 AM
It was the only tree in front of a bunch of stores.. Doubt I would have been able to find the owner/ if he or she spoke enough english potentially to get why that muzzle is bad. (middle of chinatown) Almost makes me want to start carrying a bottle of water with me in case I see that again.

In walking back the other way the dog was gone. I would have been far more upset than I already was if it was still tied to that tree in the sun. And started some serious contemplation of unmuzzlign the dog and taking off. :mad:

Just really dissapoints me that the government who wants this, can't be bothered to educate for the saftey of poor animals.

People I've talked to either don't know there is a new law, think the law is to extermine the 'bad breeds' now, or don't know the first thing about muzzling...

StaceyB
September 20th, 2005, 10:49 AM
That is true but there are times when they won't be like when you are not home. In these cases the dog needs to be safe. Too many people think that if they put a muzzle on their dog when they are not home they won't bark or chew and that is true because they will probably be dead before they return home.

Conners
September 20th, 2005, 12:14 PM
Because I don't drive and unable to bring groceries home myself and cabs are not always an option, Shasta helps me in that department, specially in winter. (my worst and painful time of year) I take her with me to the store and we buy the heavy things we need...dog fod, cat food, litter and milk). I use my grandsons sled and with all the snow, it is easy for her to pull...but I do have to leave her outside while I go in to get them.
She's an attention getter and by the time I come out, she is sitting in the sled with a laughing crowd of people around her as she calls out "mom" "mom mom".
When she see' me, naturlly they know who Mom is and next thing I know someone has run into the store to buy weiners, etc and ask if she can have one...but she ends up with about 3 or 4 in pieces.
We've never done this with the muzzle on yet and I'm not looking forward to it this winter.
My point is, there are times you have to leave the dog outside (in a familiar area and only for very short times)...run in, run out as fast as you can.
I don't understand that dog being muzzled just yet unless they are weaning it on the muzzle, but alone with the nylon one is scarey.
That's why it's very important to get one that is safe for the dog, which is why I want a different one from what I have and still think the only way I will get that is to make it myslf as Shasta as my model. Custom made for her.

StaceyB
September 20th, 2005, 12:28 PM
I would suggest if you do make one yourself, have it checked by a professional in the business so that you know that it will be ok to use.

Conners
September 20th, 2005, 12:38 PM
I would suggest if you do make one yourself, have it checked by a professional in the business so that you know that it will be ok to use.
Who would that be and where do I find such a person? The petstores aren't qualified or they wouldn't sell half of the muzzles the sell. I'm limited to where I am able to get around to, so where would I look, say in the yellow pages. who or what kind of business or person?

StaceyB
September 20th, 2005, 12:46 PM
You can try the HS, vet, professional trainer that uses them(anti aggression) or a by law officer.

Conners
September 20th, 2005, 01:02 PM
You can try the HS, vet, professional trainer that uses them(anti aggression) or a by law officer.
You're a sweetheart! Thanks! That makes it easy!!! :thumbs up

StaceyB
September 20th, 2005, 01:11 PM
Well thank you, that is very nice.

babyrocky1
September 21st, 2005, 05:34 PM
Maybe it's me...but that muzzle looks horrible. How do Pitties, who tend to have very wide mouths when panting...pant in those things, not to mention..how do they drink?

Me and KaylaAs you know Kayla and me, Rocky has one. I had been more comfortable with the plastic cage muzzle cause he seemed more comfortable in it. He can drink and pant for sure with that one. When I realised that it was rubbing non his nose I switched to the Leather one from hot dogs...He can lick his nose so I think he can drink. Rocky tends not to drink when I want him to so I havent actually seen him do it. There are a few inches at least between the muzzle and the mouth but certainly not as much space as with the plastic one. I worry about the panting thing too, and actually havent had it on him too much because of the heat. He can pant but Im not sure if he CAN pant enough :confused: When i walk him on the muzzle all of my old enemies are DELIGHTED! Im having a REALLY hard time with the neighbours again...more rumours about Rocky...To the point were I called AC myself this weekend! I told them about some of the stuff thats happened and what Rockys being accused of. They said that I shouldn't worrry yet because they don't have a protocall for the pit bull thing and may not have till Oct. 28th. Rocky barked at someone a few months back and shes now telling people hes vicious. I refered to that situation and asked about the menacing behaviour, thats when she told me that they didn't have a protacal yet but that she personally wouldn't take a call like that. Its now at the point in my neighbourhood that they believe there own crap. Thats whats so scary about it...they feel totally justified in doing what theyre doing. The only good thing that happened to me all week was when two cops were talking and pointing at Rocky, assuming that they were discussing the fact that he wan't muzzled, :) I shrugged and went hey its not Oct. 28th. yet. They told me they were just admiring my beautiful dog!

Conners
September 21st, 2005, 06:00 PM
When i walk him on the muzzle all of my old enemies are DELIGHTED! Im having a REALLY hard time with the neighbours again...more rumours about Rocky...To the point were I called AC myself this weekend! I told them about some of the stuff thats happened and what Rockys being accused of. They said that I shouldn't worrry yet because they don't have a protocall for the pit bull thing and may not have till Oct. 28th. Rocky barked at someone a few months back and shes now telling people hes vicious. I refered to that situation and asked about the menacing behaviour, thats when she told me that they didn't have a protacal yet but that she personally wouldn't take a call like that. Its now at the point in my neighbourhood that they believe there own crap. Thats whats so scary about it...they feel totally justified in doing what theyre doing. The only good thing that happened to me all week was when two cops were talking and pointing at Rocky, assuming that they were discussing the fact that he wan't muzzled, :) I shrugged and went hey its not Oct. 28th. yet. They told me they were just admiring my beautiful dog!
Babyrock don't let them get to you. know...easy to say, but you know Rocky and his personality. Dogs DO bark! You should hear Shasta's bark. She looks sweet and acts sweet...but if you didn't see her or know her, her bark is something else. How such a little girl got such a powerful bark is beyond me, but she rarely barks unless someone comes to the door or too close to the back patio window to let me know. THAT I don't mind and even allow as it makes me feel safer. Let people think twice before breaking into my apartment.
You can tell you are paranoid right from your last comment assuming the police were looking at him talking about muzzling rather than admiring him.
The fact is, people now see Shasta in her halti that she has worn for over a year and all of a sudden they think she is muzzled. DUH! HELLO? But I find out quickly, they give me a sympathic smile and tell me how unfair it is.
Hold your head up for your babe, because he feels your fears.
I assume EVERYBODY loves Shasta! That's why I was flabbergasted when I received that one rude negative remark by that old man. See...he doesn't deserve the title of senior. :rolleyes:
When I was out with the petitions and I saw the police, I asked if they were interested in signing. Shasta was with me. They boh wanted to but said they needed to stay nutral while on duty. One toldme he lived near by and would sign it when he wasn't working. Not EVERYBODY hates pitties!!! And the ones that do are ignorant to the truth, so why waste your time with them.
As for the muzzle, I'm still undecided and still think I will make my own and ask the HS if it is legit. I suppose I SHOULD ask first as the supplies are going to be costly since I don't have any of it. After that, I can make her several in different colours depending on our mood.

babyrocky1
September 21st, 2005, 07:16 PM
Usually I dont let them get to me but all summer they have been either completely making things up about Rocky or taking something that has happened and blowing it way out of proportion. Rocky is rambunctious at times and he has develped a habit of barking and even jumping when he is excited to see someone. He is EXTREMEMLY friendly but he has definately been misunderstood! Rocky lives with me in a Co-op of about 200 people. Almost all of them love him, as you can imagagine he does the jumping and smiling and licking and kissing every time he meets and greeets someone in the elevator! This is great but he expects to do the same thing with strangers, he thinks he will be greeted in kind. WELL not sooo! Ofcourse Im trying to work on this with his training but it seems like a waste of time since he will be muzzled, possible for the rest of his life :sad: Anyway the only tme this caused a problem was once when he scared a woman many moths ago. I never saw her again or I would have explained the behaviour to her...So ofcourse this wkend she shows up outside my building pointing at Rocky and telling people hes vicious AND as was mentioned in the post from the London paper, how does one determine what is menacing behaviour. :eek: At the begining of the summer I posted about other neighbours telling people that my dog "took a chunk out of another dog" This was not based on any incident, just a guy who hates me spreading rumours, I have confronted this guy, he continues to do this anyway and has gathered a group from his building that sit and gossip about us, I have accumstoned myself to that as well but there used to be lots of positive people in my neighbourhood and I would just focus on them.They are all gone now :sad: I still have the support of the people who live in my building but none of them have dogs, so when Im out, Im on my own. I actually hate these people! I don't believe in hate in theory, I believe that these kind of feelings only destroy the one feeling them but they have intentionaly caused me so much mysery and could potentially cause so much more.... they could have my dog...I cant even type it. And again what I read in that article that you posted is so true, we have no rights! a bunch of buerocrats are meeting as we speek to develop stategeis to enforce this unconstitutional law should some idiot decide to launch a complaint about you and your dog! I know Mona B and most police and AC officers are not lookiing to drag off our friendly pets BUT the point is that they CAN! Normally I stick up for myself, I hate conflict, but if it comes down to it I only take so much abuse and then Ill go to the source and tell them whats what but now I feel like I can't stand up for myself incase I inflame a situation and they cause very serious trouble for my dog! I dont feel like I live in a democratic country anymore. As things stand now I dont believe that I do!

Conners
September 21st, 2005, 08:24 PM
How old is Rocky? Shasta was such a jumper to try to give everyone kisses that I was going frantic. I remember posting on here about being too lovable. And pitties definately are VERY lovable and want to show it.
I tried every thing and how can you disapline a dog for being lovable right?
I would yell, "DOWN!" so often, but excitiblity won out until one day I said "SIT!" She sat. Holy smokes, it was a simple matter of changing a command, because how could she jump if she was sitting? LOL
When I new a bunch of people were coming over, I'd put her halti and leash on and even without me holding the leash, she never jumped. Silly girl.
She still gets excited around certain people and get her to sit prior to them patting her. You have to train your friends and neighbours too. LOL Be consistant and once he see's he will not get rewarded (the pat) until he sits nicely, he'll soon learn not to jump.

Conners
September 21st, 2005, 08:27 PM
[QUOTE=babyrocky1]At the begining of the summer I posted about other neighbours telling people that my dog "took a chunk out of another dog" This was not based on any incident, just a guy who hates me spreading rumours, I have confronted this guy, he continues to do this anyway and has gathered a group from his building that sit and gossip about us, I have accumstoned myself to that as well but there used to be lots of positive people in my neighbourhood and I would just focus on them.QUOTE]
By the way, on this one, you ask people if this was true, would you still have your dog? The answer should be 'no' and that would be the end of that one.

babyrocky1
September 21st, 2005, 08:39 PM
How old is Rocky? Shasta was such a jumper to try to give everyone kisses that I was going frantic. I remember posting on here about being too lovable. And pitties definately are VERY lovable and want to show it.
I tried every thing and how can you disapline a dog for being lovable right?
I would yell, "DOWN!" so often, but excitiblity won out until one day I said "SIT!" She sat. Holy smokes, it was a simple matter of changing a command, because how could she jump if she was sitting? LOL
When I new a bunch of people were coming over, I'd put her halti and leash on and even without me holding the leash, she never jumped. Silly girl.
She still gets excited around certain people and get her to sit prior to them patting her. You have to train your friends and neighbours too. LOL Be consistant and once he see's he will not get rewarded (the pat) until he sits nicely, he'll soon learn not to jump.Exactly Conners, seems we have the same doglol Yes thats what I meant about my neighbours (the good ones) its hard to train them LOL some of them roll around on the elevator floor with Rocky kissing themLOL About the bad neighbours, it doesn't matter whats true and whats not, no one even talks to me anymore and thats fine so theres no point in trying to dispute anything they say cause there isn't anyone to listen. Thats why I have you guys LOL BTW Im at work again so have to run, thanks for the encouraging words though...I seem to need alot of that these days :)BTW Rocky is six but hes going into a second puppy hood :) :confused:

love my dogs
September 21st, 2005, 10:02 PM
wow babyrock, I didn't realize things were that bad for you. You are a victim. Being victimized like that is truly horrible, especially when it is so in your face, constant, and seems there is nothing you can do about it.

I want you to know that I truly sympathize with you! I know what it feels like to be falsely accused and the subject of mean, malicious rumors. It makes you feel so angry. :mad:

Is there any way you can move to another neighbourhood? If not, maybe you can charge those ding dongs with harrassment!

babyrocky1
September 21st, 2005, 10:22 PM
Thanks Love My dogs, actually I love my neighbourhood and my co-op! I live at Harbourfront which should be a paradise for a dog owner or anyone else for that matter, you would think it would make some people in a more mellow mood. The Co-op I live in is specifically for people working in the arts and as I am a visual artist. I am extrememly lucky to be there. We used to have a great bunch of dog owners but they have gradually moved out of the neighbourhood and alot of new condos have gone up in the area. As they kind of took over our park I felt unwelcome so I never socialised with the new group. Even still, without my or my dogs presence they made this stuff up. Sometimes I feel like leaving, certainly did this week, but overall its a great place to live. Its really one main guy who is getting everyone else going. Ive been racking my brain trying to think of a way of fighting back. They all have there dogs off leash....My daughter has a cell phone camera :)

love my dogs
September 21st, 2005, 11:35 PM
Yes! pictures are a great idea!!!! Take lots and keep them just in case!

I don't understand.....does this guy not have a life or what?

You know what they say....keep your enemies close! Maybe you could turn this guy into a friend (or at least pretend to be his friend so he isn't always starting sh**).

I didn't realize there were that many condos around harbour front. Personally, I don't know how you T.O. people do it.....I could never live there.....WAY too many neighbours LOL... well way to many people in general,...and traffic.

My bro lives there (off Bathurst)...he paid more for his 2 bedroom row house(with no yard) than I did for my 3 bdrm, 3 car garage bungalow on 2 acres of land.

Conners
September 21st, 2005, 11:48 PM
Yes! pictures are a great idea!!!! Take lots and keep them just in case!

I don't understand.....does this guy not have a life or what?

You know what they say....keep your enemies close! Maybe you could turn this guy into a friend (or at least pretend to be his friend so he isn't always starting sh**).for my 3 bdrm, 3 car garage bungalow on 2 acres of land.
Wow love my dogs, your kids are sooo lucky to have 2 acres!!!
I think your advice about trying to make friends (on a casual basis naturally) to see if that could posibly change his mind about Rocky...but then, if he is a gossip and a story teller, if could make things worse as these kind of people don't seem to have a life and therefore take it out on the ones that do. Be extremely CAUTIOUS and don't allow him close to Rocky. One minor little scratch and he could be yelling PIT BULL ATTACK!
If he is complaining about your dog, you can believe he is also making trouble for others too. JUST BE CAREFUL is all I have to say!

Me and Kayla
September 22nd, 2005, 10:54 AM
Thanks Love My dogs, actually I love my neighbourhood and my co-op! I live at Harbourfront which should be a paradise for a dog owner or anyone else for that matter, you would think it would make some people in a more mellow mood.

You would think! But, no....too many people out there get their strength from jumping on someone else's bandwagon. Hey, if Michael Bryant says your neighbour's dog is a vicious animal, then that should make you feel more powerful by ratting on your poor neighbour with the 'banned breed'.


This whole situation with the Pitties is making nervous nellies out of all of us. Just flip through the various threads to see it. I can't believe that I went from being a confident happy pet owner 8 months ago to a suspicious, scared, bitter, angry and nervous person today. Worrying about Kayla
now seems to consume about 70% of my day.

We should file a class action suit personally against Michael Bryant for pain and suffering.

I think we should all go party over at Babyrocky's place every weekend with our Pitties, and scare the heck out of her miserable neighbours. Maybe we can hope that they will be the ones to feel threatened and forced to move. :evil:

Hang in there Babyrocky!



Me and Kayla

love my dogs
September 22nd, 2005, 12:49 PM
I think we should all go party over at Babyrocky's place every weekend with our Pitties, and scare the heck out of her miserable neighbours. Maybe we can hope that they will be the ones to feel threatened and forced to move.

I love that idea! One by one, (one a day or something), we each knock on this person's door with pit in tow, and ask him to sign our petition. Just say "I'm in the neighbourhood collecting signitures." Just keep bugging him like the door to door religious groups do.......you know, convert him.

Conners- Yes, it's great to have the land, however it is not yet fenced in, so the kids can't really run around. We are hoping to get it done as soon as we can afford to.....it's top of the list, trust me! When we do, I'd be happy to host all the play dates.

I'll let you know right away!

Conners
September 22nd, 2005, 03:55 PM
This whole situation with the Pitties is making nervous nellies out of all of us. Just flip through the various threads to see it. I can't believe that I went from being a confident happy pet owner 8 months ago to a suspicious, scared, bitter, angry and nervous person today. Worrying about Kayla
now seems to consume about 70% of my day.

We should file a class action suit personally against Michael Bryant for pain and suffering.

I think we should all go party over at Babyrocky's place every weekend with our Pitties, and scare the heck out of her miserable neighbours. Maybe we can hope that they will be the ones to feel threatened and forced to move. :evil:
I only just blogged about that the other day wondering how suddenly our lives became so topsy twirly from just simply enjoying life and worrying over small matter. Now as you say, we are consumed by it, whether by fighting against it, worrying about it, trying to make sence out of any of it (not that there is any), but yes, it's like walking on raw egg shells 24/7.
As far as scaring the neighbours with the pitties. :D it wouldn't work. Did you see the pics from our Bow Wow Pow Wow? Not one negative incident and the whole thing was so comical to watch that even the cat joined us on the roof top. Although, it could prove a GOOD point...responsible dog owners don't have vicious dogs. :thumbs up

babyrocky1
September 22nd, 2005, 05:38 PM
I think we should all go party over at Babyrocky's place every weekend with our Pitties, and scare the heck out of her miserable neighbours. Maybe we can hope that they will be the ones to feel threatened and forced to move. :evil:

Hang in there Babyrocky!



Me and KaylaYou guys are welcome anytime but well be staying away from those neighbours, BTW theres no way for making friends with this guy its not just the dog he hates he hates me....he hates people wo live in co-ops he just really loves to hate! Hes as ignorant about co-ops as he is about Pit bulls and honestly I don't think hhe is scared of Rocky....Rocky has passed those dogs of his for YEARS and never so much as given them a dirty look....the guy is just a anA$$ hole and even worse he is an elementery school teacher! Those poor kids. It actually really started when he accused my friends dog of being aggressive and I stuck up for her, her dog was a foster guide dog, she graduated and they use her as a breeder, I kinda dont think that would happen if she wer agressive, at the time he called my friend a "Cword" as well as a whole lot of F words. Not really friendship material that one!

Conners
September 22nd, 2005, 06:06 PM
Conners- Yes, it's great to have the land, however it is not yet fenced in, so the kids can't really run around. We are hoping to get it done as soon as we can afford to.....it's top of the list, trust me! When we do, I'd be happy to host all the play dates.

I'll let you know right away!
Well hold off on having the fence put in just yet anyway...you never know what the bylaws or law will be. Next they'll say it needs to be 12 ft tall as pitties can jump 8 ft high...or even fly. Who knows what they will INVENT next! :mad:

Conners
September 22nd, 2005, 06:10 PM
he is an elementery school teacher! at the time he called my friend a "Cword" as well as a whole lot of F words. Not really friendship material that one!
It's no wonder the kids have problems in school. This coming from an elementry teacher! I'd be taking him to the principle. Let the school know what kind of a person is teaching these kids. :evil:

Me and Kayla
September 23rd, 2005, 12:21 AM
It's no wonder the kids have problems in school. This coming from an elementry teacher! I'd be taking him to the principle. Let the school know what kind of a person is teaching these kids. :evil:

What is it with the 'teachers'??? Aren't they supposed to be the 'enlightened' ones? The thought that they weld the power to influence our children's minds scares the willies out of me. Funny that the only neighbour who gives me grief is a teacher too. I don't know who I feel more sorry for...their students or the pitties.

Me and Kayla

Conners
September 23rd, 2005, 12:54 AM
What is it with the 'teachers'??? Aren't they supposed to be the 'enlightened' ones? The thought that they weld the power to influence our children's minds scares the willies out of me. Funny that the only neighbour who gives me grief is a teacher too. I don't know who I feel more sorry for...their students or the pitties.

Me and Kayla
I know teachers are just people, but are they THAT Jeckle and Hyde that they can be one person at school and so much different in school? I DON'T think so!
I seriously think this man should be reported if this is a person that is suppose to be influencing and teaching young minds for their future.
It's not just his language that is appalling, but the slander and gossip he is spreading.
If this man was teaching my grandkids and I found this out, I'd definitely go to the school board about him. I had a simular type of teacher in high school and she definitely had a bad inpact on me and put me through h*ll. When my Mom went to my school trying to figure out what was her problem with me and what could be done...it turned out she was an excellent teacher, but picked on one student (she only taught girls in her class. :confused: Subject: English, my favorite) a year. Meaning every year she 'broke' one girl and she taught for many, many years.
Perhaps this is why I believe this teacher should be reported. Minds like this do not belong around children and already we hear of too many horror stories.

love my dogs
September 23rd, 2005, 12:20 PM
this is why it is so important as parents to be involved in our children's school.

I can remember some really good teachers, who helped me through, and also a few bad ones, who said and did things they should not have......my grade 9 math teacher made life so unbearable for me, it really hurt my self esteem at a very critical age (with puberty and all).

My husband remembers teachers who actually physically abused students.

Keeping tabs on the school, and interacting regularly with the teachers is the best way to let them know that you are involved and nothing will get past you (the parent).

Speaking of teachers, last night was meet the teacher night for step son's first year in high school. They all seemed pretty decent to me....so far!LOL

Conners
September 23rd, 2005, 01:52 PM
So due to the fact of how he treats and talks to people in public and causes bad rumours to float about your dog, don't you think you should either go to the school board and let them know. After all, he is influencing other peoples kids and that shouldn't matter whether they are ours or not. It's worth a try and at least he will see you won't take his ***** anymore. Keep his lies to himself and let you get on with your life...a long with Rocky's.

babyrocky1
September 23rd, 2005, 05:59 PM
At the time that the guy was swearing and ranting at my friend it was about four years ago. There were alot of stories ging around that he did this to other people. The past few years he keeps his rants more controlled and out of ear shot, in other words his hatred is more under the table. It would be very hard to prove any of this except for what happened with my friend and I know she would not want to take this further, I definately discussed the school baord angle with her at the time. Remember though that teachers have an extremely strong federation. Have you ever tried to launch a complaint against one of your kids teachers? I have. The process is ridiculous...even though there have been other parents complaining I have NEVER seen it go anywhere and thats for complaints from parents and students directly involvled. Im sure that they would not hear a complaint about a teachers activities in there private life unless they were convicted of a crime. As far as the guys behaviour is concerned, he seemed so out of control with his temper before its almost as if hes either gone for anger mangaement or hes on drugs cause its night and day. The evil is still there but his rages are in check. He is pres of the condo next door and has had pit bulls banned in his building.

Conners
September 23rd, 2005, 07:03 PM
I think I see the problem now. He is a condo (home) owner and president to boot. He proably looks down at renters and you said you lived in the co-ops next door. He's probably not the biggest fan of any kind of dog, but has a extreme discust for pit bull like others in the media that have been brainwashed to believe what they do.
I'd just simply suggest you don't go out of your way to be around the man. I'm not saying to fear him and watch out for him, but simply go about your business as you normally do. If anyone tells you he said anything, I'd simply say, It's a free world with many opinions. We all don't have to agree. If he says anything about your dog biting, you tell them if that were true, you obviously would have had the dog taken from you and put down, so that really doesn't make sense does it! Not a question, but more of a statement. You don't need to listen or be a part of the BS. No need to get into a discussion. You simply walk away and let them think about your remark.

babyrocky1
September 23rd, 2005, 07:46 PM
Yes Conners he does look down on the co-ops. that was part of his screamng rant, but that was a few years ago, he now envies our co-op cause its a co-op for the arts. we have some local celebs etc. in our alumni, he didn't know that at first. He has two small fluffy dogs that he lets off leash all the time. He also has the ear of all of the small fluffy owners in his buildiing. whenever I go out, almost everytime Ileave my building I have one or more of them snarling at me(owners) or intentionally and obviously cross the road. I do try and ignore it but all day every day is a bit much! Also, through the summer, since its a tourist area, there are alot of people in my neighbourhood, lots of them nice so they counteract the actions of these people but now its quieting down and Im just left with them. Anyway Ive gone on more than enough about this jerk so hopefully I wont have anymore incidents to tell you guys about for a while....sorry to babble on but Im receiving no support from people who I thought were my friends. I expected them to say something but they dont want to get involved :rolleyes: When the shoe was on the other foot I stuck up for them and thats why the heat is on me so fiercely... Im a little bitter about that!

Conners
September 23rd, 2005, 08:58 PM
A lot of times friends are so involved with their own lives and problems that they can't always be their for you when you need them. I doubt that it's that they don't want to, but busy with their own stuff. This is hurting you and they probably feel like you're over it. Give them the benefit of the doubt, because being bitter only makes you feel worse.
For what it's worth, you've got us at the forum and we count right??? :cool:
We're all under stress with what's going on with our dogs and not everyone understands that. Many think that since we get to keep our dogs, we have nothing to worry about. They don't know what this is doing to us emotionally.
Try to spend some happy times with Rocky before the muzzling. That's what I'm trying to do with Shasta.
I KNOW we will eventually win this thing...it just takes a loooong time. Think of it this way, we are one day closer to reaching our goal than yesterday, then reach down and give Rocky those wonderful hugs he loves so much from you!!! :pawprint:

babyrocky1
September 23rd, 2005, 11:36 PM
Your absolutely right Conners, I know it, Its just hard to feel it....anyway Ill try harder LOL Thanks for the words of encouragement...I do know I always have you guys :grouphug: It is strange the way even other pet owners don't fully comprehend the impact of this...anyway Its almost midnight and I should be outa here and on my way home to walk my baby ....so night all, chat to ya soon

Conners
September 26th, 2005, 01:33 AM
Your absolutely right Conners, I know it, Its just hard to feel it....anyway Ill try harder LOL Thanks for the words of encouragement...I do know I always have you guys :grouphug: It is strange the way even other pet owners don't fully comprehend the impact of this...anyway Its almost midnight and I should be outa here and on my way home to walk my baby ....so night all, chat to ya soon
:grouphug: back at yah!

mona_b
September 26th, 2005, 07:22 AM
Someone breaking into your home to attack or kill you doesn't protect you if your dog bites them. This is not new and applies to all dogs. You are responsible for everything your dog does to anyone even if they were there to cause you harm.

Yes you are responsible for your dog.But if your dog is protecting your family and home,and attacks that person who breaks in,then you will not be charged.I have been to quite a few of these calls and none of the dog owners have been charged.

As for the muzzles,they do not have to be worn while on your own property.

Conners
September 26th, 2005, 03:14 PM
Yes you are responsible for your dog.But if your dog is protecting your family and home,and attacks that person who breaks in,then you will not be charged.I have been to quite a few of these calls and none of the dog owners have been charged.

As for the muzzles,they do not have to be worn while on your own property.
That's not the way I have been reading it from the new law. That's ehy I feel so defenceless as I live on a first floor apartment, alone with my pets and on top of that not of my windows lock (long story with the Property Management plus I don't tell people to make it common knowledge) but I even brought that up in City Hall, that if someone was to come into my apartment to cause my phyisical harm, it's natural for any breed of loyal dog to protect those that they love, yet with the Pit bull's and the way the law is written, I would have to try to refrain my dog from attacking the intruder and in the meanwhile both myself and my dog could be killed. But if Shasta did protect me, then she gets taken away and put down and I get fined and/or jailed. What happens to the intruder...who knows???? :(

mona_b
September 26th, 2005, 09:44 PM
That's not the way I have been reading it from the new law. That's ehy I feel so defenceless as I live on a first floor apartment, alone with my pets and on top of that not of my windows lock (long story with the Property Management plus I don't tell people to make it common knowledge) but I even brought that up in City Hall, that if someone was to come into my apartment to cause my phyisical harm, it's natural for any breed of loyal dog to protect those that they love, yet with the Pit bull's and the way the law is written, I would have to try to refrain my dog from attacking the intruder and in the meanwhile both myself and my dog could be killed. But if Shasta did protect me, then she gets taken away and put down and I get fined and/or jailed. What happens to the intruder...who knows???? :(

This is why I posted the link.This is the updated new law.Pit Bull or not.

If someone breaks into your apt,and Shasta(love that name.. :) ) protects you and attacks,she will not be taken away and put down.

(2) Where a person is on premises with the intention of committing, or in the commission of, a criminal act on the premises and incurs damage caused by being bitten or attacked by a dog, the owner is not liable under section 2 unless the keeping of the dog on the premises was unreasonable for the purpose of the protection of persons or property. R.S.O. 1990, c. D.16, s. 3 (2).

As for the fines and jail time,this all has to do with if your dogs attacks in public.Say you take your dog for a walk,she breaks away from the leash,starts havock and attacks people.Or was in the backyard and jumps the fence and does this.This is what they mean about the stiffer fines and or jail time.

Unfortunately there have been times when there has been a B&E and the family dog does try to protect the family,only for it to be fatal to the dog.Dogs have been shot/stabbed trying to protect the family.

For your protection,I suggest you put up a sign.....And no,putting up a "beware of dog" sign does not mean you have a vicious dog either.

Conners
September 26th, 2005, 10:32 PM
Well That is GREAT news!!! Thanks for sharing that one with me. I do have two signs on my doors. The front and that patio. I am sooooooo relieved!!!! *hugs*

LoNScamp
September 26th, 2005, 10:43 PM
I'm wondering if something like a Halti Head Harness would be acceptable as a muzzle. You can pull the dogs mouth shut if need be. I know of someone who was issued a muzzle order (that was eventually revoked) when their dog bit someone on their property. They used the Halti, the inspector from Animal Control said it was ok.

Anyone who has ever used a Halti knows how often they have been asked if it is a muzzle.

LoNScamp
September 26th, 2005, 10:48 PM
Pits that are particpte in agility are exempt from the legislation, does anyone know if Pits who are therapy dogs are? You would think so, but this legislation is flipping stupid who knows.

StaceyB
September 26th, 2005, 10:52 PM
The halti isn't good enough for this. It has to be a muzzle.

mona_b
September 26th, 2005, 10:57 PM
Well That is GREAT news!!! Thanks for sharing that one with me. I do have two signs on my doors. The front and that patio. I am sooooooo relieved!!!! *hugs*

I hoped it would make you feel relieved...... :)

As far as I know,the haltie and Gentle Leader are not accepted as muzzles.

I can't see a therapy dog having to have a muzzle.Reason being is they need to be able to pick things up for their owners.

Conners
September 26th, 2005, 11:35 PM
I hoped it would make you feel relieved...... :)

As far as I know,the haltie and Gentle Leader are not accepted as muzzles.

I can't see a therapy dog having to have a muzzle.Reason being is they need to be able to pick things up for their owners.
Shasta IS not only my companion, my baby, my therapy and service dog, but I just found out about trying to get her certified as she gives me my independance since without her I would not be able to do a lot of things without her.
I'm only looking into having her certified now, so hopefully we get that done prior to any changes since she is an APBT.
I have phobia's on the bus and city transportation, along with many others. Speaking in City Hall was the hardest thing I could possibly do, but with anti-anxiety meds for panic attacks and knowing I was doing this for her and the others dogs, I did it. Granted, I went to sleep very EARLY that day.
To what degree are they allowed to help you when certified? Are they allowed on the bus or in stores, etc? And you are right about the muzzle...how can she help me wearing a muzzle?
Where can I get info to how much they will allow with a certified therapy and service dog? I'm just awaiting an answer from someone that trains and certifies them. I hope we make it.

mona_b
September 26th, 2005, 11:52 PM
To what degree are they allowed to help you when certified? Are they allowed on the bus or in stores, etc? .

The answer to this is yes.They are allowed in all these places and more.Theses are therapy/service dogs.Just like dogs for the blind,and hearing impaired.My Moms friend has seizures.She has a Weimaraner.Well Radar is a certified Service Dog because he knows before hand when she is having one.They are allowed anywhere

If Shasta does pass,she will wear a special harness.If I recall,it will have SSD on it for Special Service Dog.This is what they have here.I actually seen a man in a wheelchair on the bus with a Black Lab.Yes I do take the bus at times.... :p

As for to what degree,do you mean with you?..If so,they help you with whatever you need them to do.

Conners
September 27th, 2005, 12:05 AM
The answer to this is yes.They are allowed in all these places and more.Theses are therapy/service dogs.Just like dogs for the blind,and hearing impaired.My Moms friend has seizures.She has a Weimaraner.Well Radar is a certified Service Dog because he knows before hand when she is having one.They are allowed anywhere

If Shasta does pass,she will wear a special harness.If I recall,it will have SSD on it for Special Service Dog.This is what they have here.I actually seen a man in a wheelchair on the bus with a Black Lab.Yes I do take the bus at times.... :p

As for to what degree,do you mean with you?..If so,they help you with whatever you need them to do.
mona_b...you are the GREATEST!!! :highfive: OHHH I Hope she passes!!! I couldn't even leave the house until after I got her. She's already got me through a lot of humps. But I feel the most secure when she is with me. She's like my security crutch. She's so intuitive too. Not a mean bone in her body...unless someone were to harm me. She found my g/f's cancer months before the drs and specials did.
I don't know what the new law will do about the service and therapy dogs? I know it's one of the issues being discussed.
So much fear and in just a few posts I've learnt so much and must say feeling so much more positive. Shasta gave me back life. Literally!!! I owe my life to her.
I suppose the trailer would know better than I what I would require from her as we've been quite inventive and she brings home my groceries, takes out my garbage, wakes me to answer the door, etc. They would probably know many other ways and would tain her for that too. Too bad she couldn't open the locked door when I forget my keys and lock myself out. LOL

StaceyB
September 27th, 2005, 12:13 AM
I watched a program about dogs detecting different human ailments.
Pretty soon there will be a dog in every Dr.s office, ah just a thought.

It is amazing that with all dogs do for us and to pay them back by doing things like this. Unbelievable

mona_b
September 27th, 2005, 12:40 AM
AWWWWWWW shucks(blushes)

:grouphug:

She sounds like a sweetheart.And you both have a very strong bond.

I have a suggestion.Do a search on Assistance/Service dogs.See if you can find someone in your area.Or anywhere close.These people are the ones who can help you.They will tell you what training Shasta needs and how and what she needs to get certified.

Actually,I found one for you..... :)

http://www.abilities.ca/include/disability_organization.php?pid=&cid=&subid=&aid=5252&atype=

Give them a call and talk to them.

Please let me know what they say.

Conners
September 27th, 2005, 04:46 PM
AWWWWWWW shucks(blushes)

:grouphug:

She sounds like a sweetheart.And you both have a very strong bond.

I have a suggestion.Do a search on Assistance/Service dogs.See if you can find someone in your area.Or anywhere close.These people are the ones who can help you.They will tell you what training Shasta needs and how and what she needs to get certified.

Actually,I found one for you..... :)

http://www.abilities.ca/include/disability_organization.php?pid=&cid=&subid=&aid=5252&atype=

Give them a call and talk to them.

Please let me know what they say.
I just emailed them!!!! They provide service dogs for autistic children, but I did give them my situation and naturally told them about Shasta and how we already work together.
I asked them to provide me with any suggestions they could or recommendations. At least the ball is rolling!!! :highfive: I'll let you know what I find out. WHEEEEEEOOOOO!!!! :thumbs up

love my dogs
September 27th, 2005, 05:04 PM
Well, if that is the case with service dogs, then I would like to have Duke trained and certified as one too.

He is not quite 11 months, so still highly trainable.....and what a better use for his energy and eagerness to please then to be trained to do tasks like this.

I may not need him for therapy or service, but why not use him for that if possible, and at the same time improve his quality of life.

Conners
September 27th, 2005, 05:56 PM
Well, if that is the case with service dogs, then I would like to have Duke trained and certified as one too.

He is not quite 11 months, so still highly trainable.....and what a better use for his energy and eagerness to please then to be trained to do tasks like this.

I may not need him for therapy or service, but why not use him for that if possible, and at the same time improve his quality of life.
Don't try to get him in the St. Johns Ambulance Program. They have removed all the volunteers that own pitties. My girlfriend took Shasta and I for a surprise. In her small town outside of London is a seniors home and they didn't require any lind of certificate to take our dogs in there.
Of all the people that REALLY fell in love with Shasta was the old retired Animal Catcher for the town. He had never heard of such nonsence in all his years. Shasta was a natural there and minded all her manners. The seniors enjoyed the dogs and petting them and finding treats to give them, even if it wasn't the highly recommended kind. I'll bring my own next time I go. LOL But it was a very rewarding feeling.
I was preparing for St. Johnd before the ban was even spoken of...before Bill 132 was announced. I wanted to share what Shasta had given me. OHHHH I HATE THE BSL!!!! :evil: A dream shattered by a bill! grrrr...
But I never thought about having her certified for myself until someone at City Hall mentioned it since we were already doing that together. Now we could be trained properly fpr my needs and who knows, maybe Disability may even pay for some of the equipement I need to use. Maybe???? :confused:

mona_b
September 27th, 2005, 10:26 PM
I just emailed them!!!! They provide service dogs for autistic children, but I did give them my situation and naturally told them about Shasta and how we already work together.
I asked them to provide me with any suggestions they could or recommendations. At least the ball is rolling!!! :highfive: I'll let you know what I find out. WHEEEEEEOOOOO!!!! :thumbs up

WOW,that's great...... :thumbs up

I have my :fingerscr

I'm sure they can point you into the right direction. :)

I would still try and find other places in your area.Just do a search. :)

Please let me know what happens.

love my dogs,I'm not sure,but I think to have your dog trained and certified for a service/assisitance dog,you need to have health issues.Hope that made sense.Now therapy dogs is a different story.Here is a link to our St.Johns Ambulance Therapy Dogs.They even have the pics of them.Take a look at Hooper the Great Dane.He is such a big baby.And LOVES the attention he gets from visiting the seniors.My dog has played with him many times.

http://www.sja.ca/on/h-w/tdogdiv.html

Conners
September 28th, 2005, 01:09 AM
WOW,that's great...... :thumbs up

I have my :fingerscr

I'm sure they can point you into the right direction. :)

I would still try and find other places in your area.Just do a search. :)

Please let me know what happens.
I've got my eyes and toes crossed too! ;) Sheesh...why don't they reply as fast as I write. If only it was that easy huh. But now I have two places that I'm waiting for answers from. The other place is where they train your dog ( I think) but the woman is not there this week and I don't want to talk to anyone else as she is the head of it, so I'm waiting until she gets back.
I'm hoping with my phobia's and not being able to drive that they can come here because I have no way to get Shasta anywhere unless it's not far and we can ride my bike together...well, she runs and I ride. But can't go any great distance as it's getting colder and I have to worry about her too.
So you will be the first I tell when I find out!!!! :highfive:

love my dogs
September 28th, 2005, 08:01 PM
mona_b, Thanks for the link.

Heel and down (I'm assuming they mean lay down) are not something we have worked on, and stay....well, we're getting there. So I guess we will need a bit more training before becoming a therapy dog.

Conners
September 28th, 2005, 08:25 PM
mona_b, Thanks for the link.

Heel and down (I'm assuming they mean lay down) are not something we have worked on, and stay....well, we're getting there. So I guess we will need a bit more training before becoming a therapy dog.
I can't think of her name and I can't think of the name of her training program...so far I'm a GREAT help huh. :rolleyes: But it's right at the end of Hyde Park just as London ends going north. I've got the email addy's to the St. Johns in London, but they won't allow the pit bull breeds. Shasta and I were getting into it just prior to bill 132 and then BANG! OUT PIT BULLS!

love my dogs
September 28th, 2005, 08:42 PM
thanks conners.

I know that about the St. Johns program, but they can still become certified...right?

CyberKitten
September 28th, 2005, 09:19 PM
I serve on an official govt commission that oversees services for disabled people of all ages and it has been my experience that obtaining funding for dogs has to be VERY specific. I am going home tomorrow and will ask for the specifics - I would not want to provide you with info that is not up to date nor accurate - but I do know funding is available for visually impaired people for example. You may have a tougher time with the driver issue - I am afraid mental health issues are not as well served as some of the other areas but your best opportunity there may be a priate agency that would approve funding on a case by case basis. These associations all look for certain words and phrases in their letters - from my perspective as a physician I know.When I was a young political aide (while in univ), one of the first tasks I learned was how to write letters and requests to the various appeal boards so that people who needed help would obtain it. That is one skill politics has helped me with in medicine. I never have problems obtaining help (ie financial aid) for my patients or for my students who have student loan issue. Last yr, one medical student called me to tell me "you can tell my MP's office I have enough money now", lol

It is just the way the game is played I am afraid and many doctors simply fill in these forms without realizing that unless they have the key words and phrases, the application will be denied and the merry go round of appeals starts. That's a seperate issue from yours in a way though. You are hoping the govt or a private group will pay what for your dog or yourself? As usual, I was rushed and skimming so I just know you think some group or a govt dept will pay what for your dog? In most cases, the dog must be certified first and have completed an approved program. Or in some cases, a doctor or other health care professional can verify that the pet is essential in the completion of some task. Very rarely do I see coverage of the dog's costs - other than a "seeing eye" dog and usually, that means coverage of training - usually already paid for - or a private group like the CNIB may cover some costs for someone who qualifies financially. Therapy dogs are obviously covered as part of a program - but not individually - and this whole thing is really in its infancy here. One can obtain tax credits for dogs who provide help with assisted living for quadraplegics and paraplegics for example and some trehab programs intorduce the concept and then it is up to the individual to ascertain if they want to have a pet. There is prob more funding for tech solutuons the truth be told.

IF your dog is a certifed therapy dog, you MAY be able to claim a tax deduction for her and some of the costs though - every little bit helps!! But I see submissions and briefs every day bemoaning the lack of equitable treatment of mental health issues. But I do not know the specific policy of your province and would need more information. I do know pets used in therapy in autism here are not covered by any govt program. (Unless of course they are part of a program already paid for by the govt or your insurance provider.) Here, the autism "battle" is between parents of young children who lobby for ABA and everyone else who are unconvinced of the merits of ABA. If you have your health issue already recognized as a disability (by the feds for income tax purposes and by the prov govt for other services), you may be able somehow to prove your dog is part of a program if she is certified and your doctor attests (with the aforementioned exact wording) that you require her. I doubt they would buy the driving need but perhaps some private group would (unless you qualify for social assistance and someone drives you and they are paid so much per km).

Anyway - sorry for the long response. I am always responding to these questions from ppl in the Maritimes - and frankly, having attending more conferences and fed-prov mtgs in this subject than I care to recall, the policies and legislation tend to be similar with a few alterations across Canada.

I do not know about Pits and therapy though - if a pit is a recognized therapy dog, what happens then? This is a new area and I'll be very interested to see what Ontario does there. What if a visually impaired person has a Pit as a guide dog?

mona_b
September 28th, 2005, 10:54 PM
CK, Conners is not looking for funding for her dog.She is looking into having Shasta certified for an Assistance dog.

As for a seeing eye dog,lets just say it cost a lot of money to have them trained.If I recall,about $24.000...My neice was a foster mommy for a Lab pup that was going to be trained for the blind.Also,unfortunately Pits are not used as seeing eye dogs.It's mainly Labs,Goldens and GSD'S.They are fostered out as pups for about a year.Then they are returned for excessive training.

Just a question,what would you need to claim with a therapy dog?

This is your dog and your time to visit the elderly in homes and hospitals,along with the sick children in hospitals.

CyberKitten
September 28th, 2005, 11:13 PM
Ohhhh, OK - sorry!!! That is what I get for reading the last page ansd thinking I could catch up! I assumed she was seeking funding for the dog to help her with some kind of disability. (hers or someone else's). I think I should be in bed and not jumping to wild conclusions and writing long missives that help no-one, sigh!!!

Yes, it does cost a small fortune to train a seeing eye guide dog! Fortunately, many ppl do not have to pay for it and the dog comes to them. The CNIB has some wonderful programs but that is another looong story!!

As for a therapy dog, before I jump to yet another errant conclusion - do you mean what do you need to train a therapy dog (how is one recognized by various govts?) or how do you claim a therapy dog on your income tax? I'd love to claim Yin Yin - who is certified as a therapy cat on my tax return and she does keep my BP down - I could document THAT, lol - but somehow I doubt the folks at the new long word they are calling themselves these days would recognize the fact, heheh

LoNScamp
September 28th, 2005, 11:23 PM
I feel so bad when I see these poor dogs having to wear muzzles.
I was told that Toronto wouldn't accept the comfort muzzle.
Well if Toronto does not like them TFB it is a muzzle and if there is a problem tell the city of Toronto to supply them. The Village Idiot Michael Bryant should be doing something useful like dealing with gun violence and other important issues like gangs etc. But I guess he does not really have any idea what an AG does except collect an over inflated pay cheque like most of the lieberals

I know how serious this issue is and am fully prepared to support those trying to fight it, so please don't be mad at me, but masifflover's post just cracked me up. I'm tired to, so that may have helped in my finding it so funny.

I was also going to ask if a Halit would be acceptable. I know of one case where a dog was issued a muzzle order which was later rescinded and the Halti was acceptable. But maybe not given Massif's post.

mona_b
September 28th, 2005, 11:42 PM
That's ok CK...... :)

The Lions Club also is involved with the seeing eye dogs.



As for a therapy dog, before I jump to yet another errant conclusion - do you mean what do you need to train a therapy dog (how is one recognized by various govts?) or how do you claim a therapy dog on your income tax?

Guess I sort of worded it wrong...LOL

What I meant to say is you can't claim anything cause there is nothing to claim.You are using your own dog for this.You are taking your dog to do the visits in homes and hospitals.You are spending your own on your own dog.OK,did that make sense???..LOL

I know all about the training for this.... :)

Conners
September 29th, 2005, 01:40 AM
\
I know all about the training for this.... :)
I only want to get Shasta certified for my own disabilities and handicaps. I can not do a lot of things without her help. That I know from working with her and she has given me back some independence and dignity.
But since she is already doing many of these things, both her and I trained properly would probably lead to even a more independent and fuller life, but not knowing exactly what either of us are capable of doing together that perhaps a trainer would, would make it a whole lot simplier.
I'm not seeking money. Matter of fact, I would probably have to pay to have her trained and certified. All I know is that I need help and Shasta has helped me so much already, that I can't see why she couldn't be my therapy and service dog to help me with my disabilities.
As far as the metal aspect, she does help me as when she is with me, my phobia's decrease. Sort of like having someone there to be with you and you aren't afraid.
But most of my handcaps are physical and trying to get a person to help is like calling over a mountain for help. If Shasta and I can do it ourselves, it gives me a good feeling of satisfaction, plus leaves out the frustration of someone telling you today is not a good day for me...and that continues for a month until you hate to ask anymore.
It tool me a long time to get off my high horse and give up my pride to finally ask for help. Now I know why I didn't. People don't understand, so you are stuck in a rut. I don't want to be in that rut and I don't want to depend on others. Shasta is more than willing to help and together we make a great team. That's all I'm asking. I only want to try to get her certified so we have the freedom to be able to do things that as a uncertified dog, she is not allowed to help. Does that make sense? I'm tired too...so I hope it does.

mona_b
September 29th, 2005, 07:13 AM
Everything you say makes sense to me........... :thumbs up

I now have every part of my that can be crossed,crossed...LOL

Have you heard back from anyone yet?

Schwinn
September 29th, 2005, 09:36 AM
I went through St. John's Ambulance for my first aid. When they call for recert, I'll be telling them to pound salt. If Daisy is no longer welcome, then neither am I.

BullLover
September 29th, 2005, 11:37 AM
We are walking on Sunday for the Lion's Club Dog Guides. It will be fun. They say friendly, leashed dogs are welcome. I'm taking Sadie my youngest one I think. Maybe Brutus. It depends on his mood. I wonder what kind of flack I'm going to receive from the other walkers....

BullLover
September 29th, 2005, 11:41 AM
Schwinn:

I've done ALL of my first aid training over many years with St. John's. I wonder where I can do it now? I won't be going back to them either.

BMDLuver
September 29th, 2005, 11:44 AM
blast, I was about to get recert as well but piss on them if that's what is going on... hmmm now where to go.

Conners
September 29th, 2005, 01:57 PM
We are walking on Sunday for the Lion's Club Dog Guides. It will be fun. They say friendly, leashed dogs are welcome. I'm taking Sadie my youngest one I think. Maybe Brutus. It depends on his mood. I wonder what kind of flack I'm going to receive from the other walkers....
You silly winkie!!!! They'll take one look at Brutis or Sadie and fall madly in love with them. REMEMBER...these are animal (dog) lovers that don't agree with what the government is doing anymore than we do. You and them will be FINE. Just HAVE FUN!!! :party:

BullLover
September 29th, 2005, 02:05 PM
Remeber, you haven't met Zeus yet....

LMAO....he's the smallest of all of them. Sadie weighs more than him now.

Conners
September 29th, 2005, 02:10 PM
Remeber, you haven't met Zeus yet....

LMAO....he's the smallest of all of them. Sadie weighs more than him now.
*giggle* that's true...but you never mentioned about taking him in the walk neither. LOL Oh wait...you, your sister, your mother = 3 dogs. I BEG your PARDON! :D

Schwinn
September 29th, 2005, 02:22 PM
Schwinn:

I've done ALL of my first aid training over many years with St. John's. I wonder where I can do it now? I won't be going back to them either.

I'm hoping I'll be a cop by next spring so it won't matter, but I do believe there are other places that will re-cert. I have to have it for mountain bike patrol, so I'm going to talk with some other patrollers and find out where they go.

Conners
September 29th, 2005, 02:34 PM
I'm hoping I'll be a cop by next spring so it won't matter, but I do believe there are other places that will re-cert. I have to have it for mountain bike patrol, so I'm going to talk with some other patrollers and find out where they go.
WOW SCHWINN! THAT IS SOOO COOL! :thumbs up Do the patrollers use dogs too?

smiley11
October 1st, 2005, 07:09 PM
I would hate to have to put a muzzle on my dogs to.

Conners
October 1st, 2005, 10:37 PM
I would hate to have to put a muzzle on my dogs to.
Hi Smiley. Welcome! We aren't liking it one bit, nor the dogs...but seems we have no choice...unless (or should I say...UNTIL) we win this thing. I personally think we have a better chance with Clayton Ruby than Michael Bryant, so keeping everything crossed. :fingerscr Right now we enjoy the freedom our dogs have until Oct. 28th.

dogbyte40
October 13th, 2005, 03:56 PM
Hi,
Keep your chin up!
I live in Rural Alberta and they have just intoduced a "Bylaw" which includes muzzles, higher taxes bla bla bla, I however live outside the bylaw. Any way, A what I call a "stupid person" was going to Drown yes people Drown 10 Itty Bitty Pittie babies. Now, I am an expirienced dog owner, trainer and have some knowledge of the breed but...How do I be A Good Pitty Mommy? These are 2 week old puppiies, that are already showing dominant and submissive behaviors. Any suggestions would be great.

Conners
October 13th, 2005, 08:08 PM
Hi,
Keep your chin up!
I live in Rural Alberta and they have just intoduced a "Bylaw" which includes muzzles, higher taxes bla bla bla, I however live outside the bylaw. Any way, A what I call a "stupid person" was going to Drown yes people Drown 10 Itty Bitty Pittie babies. Now, I am an expirienced dog owner, trainer and have some knowledge of the breed but...How do I be A Good Pitty Mommy? These are 2 week old puppiies, that are already showing dominant and submissive behaviors. Any suggestions would be great.
Did you get them a couple of weeks ago or were they about 2 weeks when you rescued them? Saving them from drowning already shows what a caring Mommy you are! :love: You have them on bitches milk and the little bottles? They are going pee and pooh by themselves by now. Keep them warm and PLENTY of cuddling when they're awake with lots of little pats. As long as they are warm, not hungry, and their needs are being taken care for the most importance is LOVE. With 10, that's a LOT of LOVIN'! Good luck and keep up the great work.
You didn't happen to report the man did you? That should have been the second thing after saving them. People like that should be reported and not allowed animals. :evil:

StaceyB
October 13th, 2005, 08:22 PM
What behaviours are these little ones showing you.

dogbyte40
October 14th, 2005, 11:00 AM
What behaviours are these little ones showing you.
Really high prey drive, dominant posturing during bottle feeding, many other much more desireable behaviors too, lots of talking, resonding to my voice differently than my kids and husband. These are definatly the coolest puppies I have ever had! :)