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Where should Tosa sleep?

JJC
September 9th, 2005, 10:04 PM
I have been pondering this for awhile now. Tosa is now nine months old and has been crate trained since she was three months. She has always slept in her crate in the pantry as that had puppy proof linoleum flooring. Now that she is house trained should I move her crate into the bedroom? She would still be in her crate at night and durring the day when I am at work.

One thing that may have some bearing is that from day one she was taught not to go into my bedroom. That was the only room that has carpet and while getting her house trained I didn't want her peeing in there. The rest of the house is hardwood or vinyl flooring. Easy clean up. That and I thought that it would help establish me into the alpha position being that it was my space and it was to be respected. She now knows that she is not to step into my room and doesn't 100%, even when a toy is thrown in there.

So will it confuse things to now tell her it's OK to go in there? Should I keep things the way they are? She really has no problem sleeping in the pantry at night. In fact when she gets tired that's where she goes to sleep most of the time. So many conflicting methods I'm not sure what to do.

Thanks for any suggestions.

mars
September 9th, 2005, 10:46 PM
sorry for all the deletes, it's been a long day! i don't think it will confuse your dog if you let her in your room. i think you should just make sure that you won't want to go back on that decision later, because once they're in, they're in!

Lucky Rescue
September 9th, 2005, 11:25 PM
Your dog is crated all day and all night? How many hours out of 24 is she out of the crate?

A dog who is crated all day should be with you at night, or vice versa. IF she's housetrained, there's no reason not to let her sleep in your room ( not crated) if you want her to.

JJC
September 9th, 2005, 11:49 PM
Yes she is crated at night and while I'm at work. So 16 hours out of 24. At night she is just sleeping though so does that really count? If I could trust her durring the day I would much rather not have to crate her, but she has lost that privelage due to chewing holes in my sheet rock. :mad: I've given her three chances and ended up with three holes in the pantry. I can't have her chewing my house apart. Hopefully it's something she will out grow. Maybe I'll give it a try with her sleeping on her bed in my room and see how she does. When we are camping she stays in her bed on the floor of the bus with no problem so I think she will be fine. However that is still a confined space. I'm just concerned with her wandering around at night.

badger
September 10th, 2005, 02:04 AM
16 hours a day is way way too long for her to be shut up. That's two thirds of her sweet life! She chews because she's lonely! I would at least have someone come in during the day and take her for a walk, throw her a ball, rub her tummy. If I had a dog who had to be crated for such long periods, she would be out of it so fast when I got home and stay out until I had to leave again. Of course she should sleep with you! Routine is fine, but it can kill the pleasure. JMO.

mona_b
September 11th, 2005, 12:45 PM
16 hours a day is way way too long for her to be shut up

I have to agree with this.This is way to long.16 hours in a crate can cause health issues in the bones if your not careful.

I can't have her chewing my house apart. Hopefully it's something she will out grow.

She will only out grow this if she is taught not to chew on things she can't.Which should have been done long ago.She is in a crate for 16 hours.She is bored and lonely.So of course when she is out of her crate,she is going to chew.Why?Cause she doesn't know any better.Your 3 chances mean nothing to her.You need to work with her.

Can you get someone to come in and let her out?

I have never crate trained with any of my dogs,past or present.And I have had them at 3 months of age.When I saw them chewing on things(which was rare)I gave them the "NO" command,then I gave them a toy they could chew,when they did I praised them.They picked it up pretty quick.And they had free run of the house by 6 months of age.I could leave and come back home with no damage to the house. :)

Please find a way to not have her crated for 16 hours.

JJC
September 11th, 2005, 01:18 PM
She will only out grow this if she is taught not to chew on things she can't.Which should have been done long ago.She is in a crate for 16 hours.She is bored and lonely.So of course when she is out of her crate,she is going to chew.Why?Cause she doesn't know any better.Your 3 chances mean nothing to her.You need to work with her.

I'd love to be able to teach her this but she doesn't do it when I'm home. I have put a small security camera and pretended to leave and wait untill she started chewing on the wall. I caught her in the act and corrected her and it stopped her from chewing that spot. Then she just moved to a different spot the next time. It may be a symptom of seperation anxiety? It's not boredom from lack of things to chew or play with. She has plenty of chew toys and regular toys to play with that I rotate so she doesn't get bored of one toy. She also gets a stuffed Kong when I leave. She just loves being around people.

Can you get someone to come in and let her out?

Unfortunately no. Everyone I know works full time and I can't afford to have someone come and walk her durring the day. I know some will say it's irresponsible to have a pet and work full time but I think that's ridiculous and unrealistic so save those responses please.

I have never crate trained with any of my dogs,past or present.And I have had them at 3 months of age.When I saw them chewing on things(which was rare)I gave them the "NO" command,then I gave them a toy they could chew,when they did I praised them.They picked it up pretty quick.And they had free run of the house by 6 months of age.I could leave and come back home with no damage to the house. :)

That's great but once again I've never had a problem with her chewing when I am home. When I first got her she was never out of my sight and I always kept her occupied with either training or playing so she never got the chance to chew. Maybe I should have let her make a mistake so I could correct her but hindsight is 20/20. What can I do now?

Please find a way to not have her crated for 16 hours.

I now have her sleeping in my room on her bed on the floor. She is still a little confused that she can go in there now and still goes to her crate when she is tired at night, but I think she is much happier being with me at night. All I have to say is go to your bed and go night night and she is content through the night. :thumbs up

Thanks, keep the suggestions coming.

mona_b
September 11th, 2005, 01:52 PM
There is nothing wrong with working full time and having a dog.But when the dog is in a crate for 16 hours,then it definately needs to be let out sometime during the day that you are at work.Have you checked around for prices on dog walkers and doggy daycare?

I'd love to be able to teach her this but she doesn't do it when I'm home. I have put a small security camera and pretended to leave and wait untill she started chewing on the wall. I caught her in the act and corrected her and it stopped her from chewing that spot. Then she just moved to a different spot the next time. It may be a symptom of seperation anxiety? It's not boredom from lack of things to chew or play with. She has plenty of chew toys and regular toys to play with that I rotate so she doesn't get bored of one toy. She also gets a stuffed Kong when I leave. She just loves being around people.

SA,I don't really think so.Instead of you leaving for a while and waiting for her to chew,try this.Leave for about 5 mins,go back in,have her sit.Then praise her(that's if she hasn't chewed anything.).Do this a few times.Then leave for about 7 mins.Go back in and do the same thing.I did this with my dogs when they were pups.
What you need to know is just because she has toys,this doesn't mean she isn't bored.I know my guy will get bored pretty quick with his toys.

That's great but once again I've never had a problem with her chewing when I am home. When I first got her she was never out of my sight and I always kept her occupied with either training or playing so she never got the chance to chew. Maybe I should have let her make a mistake so I could correct her but hindsight is 20/20. What can I do now?

Let me think about this one.... :)

I now have her sleeping in my room on her bed on the floor. She is still a little confused that she can go in there now and still goes to her crate when she is tired at night, but I think she is much happier being with me at night. All I have to say is go to your bed and go night night and she is content through the night

That's great... :)

I'm sure she is much happier sleeping in the room with you than in the crate... ;)

I would definately be praising her for being a good girl and not chewing anything while you were asleep..... :D

Lucky Rescue
September 11th, 2005, 07:05 PM
I know some will say it's irresponsible to have a pet and work full time but I think that's ridiculous and unrealistic so save those responses please.

Having a pet and working full time is not unrealistic at all, and I'm sure most of us here have done it, and are doing it now.

What is unrealistic is expect a dog to lie in a cage (or shipping container) in one spot for 16 hours out of 24, and have no behavioral or physical issues resulting from this very unnatural confinement. It's been proven in studies of caged zoo animals that this confinement brings out many unwanted and destructive behaviors, and even they aren't in cages just big enough to stand and turn in.

I'm glad she's at least out of the crate at night. Maybe you can slowly start giving her more freedom in the house when your at work? You can maybe start by gating her in a bathroom or laundry room and see how that goes? IF all is well, maybe you can move the gate so she has a hallway or kitchen as well. A window to look out may help also!

You need to take her out for a good hard run before you leave in the morning and give her something to occupy her, like a stuffed Kong or large marrow bone. Many dogs find lots of satisfaction from chewing these bones and working to get the marrow out, and go to sleep afterwards. I know my dog does!:)

JJC
September 11th, 2005, 08:55 PM
What is unrealistic is expect a dog to lie in a cage (or shipping container) in one spot for 16 hours out of 24, and have no behavioral or physical issues resulting from this very unnatural confinement. It's been proven in studies of caged zoo animals that this confinement brings out many unwanted and destructive behaviors, and even they aren't in cages just big enough to stand and turn in.

Believe me, it's definately not my first choice to have to crate her while I'm at work. I have no doubt it's detrimental to the health of a dog or any animal for that matter. I really want her to be free durring the day.

I'm glad she's at least out of the crate at night. Maybe you can slowly start giving her more freedom in the house when your at work? You can maybe start by gating her in a bathroom or laundry room and see how that goes? IF all is well, maybe you can move the gate so she has a hallway or kitchen as well. A window to look out may help also!

That's what I was trying to do when she chewed. She was gated in the pantry where her crate is with chew toys, stuffed Kong etc. I was trying to slowly work up to let her have access to the kitchen and then the rest of the house slowly. :confused:

You need to take her out for a good hard run before you leave in the morning and give her something to occupy her, like a stuffed Kong or large marrow bone. Many dogs find lots of satisfaction from chewing these bones and working to get the marrow out, and go to sleep afterwards. I know my dog does!:)

Maybe I'll try taking her for a longer walk in the mornings. I always take her for at least a 20 minute walk before I leave. The stuffed Kong she already had. She also gets a treat before I leave so when she sees me grab my keys she actually gets excited for me to leave 'cause she knows that treat is coming. Is this a good idea? I know she sleeps most of the day since that is what she does on the weekends when I'm home. I'm wondering if she is conscious of the time I get home or close to it and gets anxious and chews right before? It always seems she has just finished chewing the sheetrock when I walk in since she still has it in her mouth. :rolleyes:

Sadie's Mom
September 11th, 2005, 09:57 PM
She's not crated 16 hours straight is she? Part of that is at night, right? How long is she in her crate while you are at work? I've heard the max time a dog should be crated is 6 hours, but even that seems so long for me.

Is there any way you could close off the section of the house where she is chewing? Baby gate it?

Also, the fact that you were with and occupied her all the time when she was a puppy probably promoted this destructive behavior. She doesn't know how to be alone and play on her own. Maybe you could work up to having her stay home alone, not do it all at once.

You can think of absolutely no one who could come in and visit her during the day? Even if it's only a few times a week, I'm guessing that would help.

Good luck with Tosa! :fingerscr

Prin
September 12th, 2005, 01:06 AM
I would also leave blankets and whatnot in her cage with the door open, in case she is more comfortable in there despite the offer to sleep with you.

JJC
October 13th, 2005, 11:56 PM
Hey all. Here's an update on the Tosa saga. Today was the fourth day for her alone all day out of her crate! We worked up to it with four hours and then five hours first. She is now a no crate doggy as she sleeps on the floor next to my bed also! The first full day didn't go so well. I left my bedroom and bathroom door open as I had never had any problem with her bothering anything in either area. Well, came home to used tissues and garbage from the bathroom waste basket all over the house. She also went after a couple pairs of shoes and chewed the laces off of them and destroyed a tube of chapstick from my room. Before this she had never even hinted at an interest in my shoes. At least she only went after the cheap old pairs. Gooood dog right? :rolleyes: Of course I blamed myself for leaving these temptations out for her. Heck if I was a ten month old puppy all by myself for eight hours I'd be looking for something to keep me entertained besides all those toys I always get to play with. :D

I kept my cool as much as I could and ignored the mess and her for about ten minutes then greeted her and put her outside to do the clean up. Actually I was happy she didn't attack the walls like I was expecting. The next day I closed the bedroom and bathroom doors and she has been fine ever since.:thumbs up I'm now concentrating on making my coming and going a no emotion, anxiety raising issue. In the mornings I get ready and then sit back down for at least five minutes without paying her any attention. When I see she has calmed down I calmly get up and set her stuffed Kong out and leave. No goodbye or anything, just out the door. She's so into getting the prize from the Kong I don't even think she hears me close the door. Same thing when I get home. No attention like she's an invisible dog for at least ten minutes then greet her calmly and let her outside. A couple of times she hasn't even gotten up right away to come greet me. Just came around the corner with like a, "oh, it's just you" attitude. ;) She seems to be getting use to the idea of having the whole house now and is much more calm at night with not having to be crated all day. Oh, and no potty accidents at all. :thumbs up

Whew, it's been so much more work to raise a puppy than I ever thought it would be. We still need some work on some obedience issues but she has come a long way and is all in all a very smart pooch. Thanks to all of you for your help along the way. This site has been invaluable for a first time puppy owner. :highfive:

Luvmypit
October 14th, 2005, 02:14 PM
WOO HOO! Congratulations! Seriously we all know how hard it is to train a puppy!

Now you will have a happier more adjusted dog then you would if she was crated so long. My dog took a while for him to be home alone and now he doesn't get into anything when were not home he saves that for when we are home. :rolleyes:

I came to this site with one or two questions and now its been a long time. Its a great site where you will get a response from several animal loving people that truly care about your animals. They want to hear what happened and the updates. It truly is an awesome site. Hope you come back sooner ratther then later.

Enjoy your puppy!

Roxy's_MA
October 14th, 2005, 03:49 PM
That is great for you and Tosa. Sounds like you are both much happier. :)

CyberKitten
October 14th, 2005, 04:36 PM
Good news for Tosa - I did not see this thread till now and was preparing to write that "Oh MY GOD, can't imagine a poor dog crated that long!".I would think 16 hrs a day cannot be good for a puppy's emotional or physical health!!
But I am glad to hear she is out of the crate and doing well. My brother's lab was crate trained but he slept with him at nite during that time. He would be crated sometime during the day but a friend always came and walked him and spent time with him and that was what I would have suggested. Could not a friend check in on Tosa - or hire some teenager who needs an after after school job?

The afrementioned lab has never seen a crate since he was a tiny puppy.

JJC
October 14th, 2005, 07:42 PM
OK, small setback. Came home today to small mess. Tosa found the decorative moss in the plant(not real) on the floor. Not a bad mess but still causing some mischief, but if that's all she's gonna do I'll take it. ;) Sooo....what could I put in the pot to discourage her from getting in it? I have Bitter Apple but I know it's only is good while it's wet. I've used crushed peppers for cats but don't know if that would work on dogs. Anything that will work for long periods of time?