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Cat can suddenly not standup on all fours

H Boom
September 9th, 2005, 06:19 AM
Our cat is a Norwegian forest cat, neutered and approx. 11-13 years old (he was a stray therefore exact age unknown). This morning he gently rolled off our bed onto the carpet (about 1 foot drop) and just laid there. He appeared alert (breathed normal, heard beat normal, eyes open and even purred while being stroked). When he tried to get up but couldn't gain his balance and just rolled back down. We have taken him to the vet were his temperature was normal, can move his limbs, appeared to have no paralyses of the limbs, tail etc, just lack of coordination to stay upright. The vet diagnosed brain hemorrhage.

Two weeks ago he was diagnosed with a bladder infection, as he was sometimes incontinent while sleeping. For this he had a antibiotic treatment. The incontinent problem was cleared up. At that time he also had urine / blood tests to check for diabetic, liver and kidney functions, as he always drinks a lot of water. All test showed no abnormal readings. Before the incident this morning he had no noticeable symptoms, eat well and all vital functions work.

From what I can find on the net a brain haemorrhage or stroke in cats is very rare, especially for a cat our age.

Second opinion, please.


H Boom
Neterhlands

poodletalk
September 9th, 2005, 08:10 AM
You must take your cat to the vet ASAP!

badger
September 9th, 2005, 08:32 AM
From what I understand, he's been to the vet, who diagnosed a brain hemmorhage. How is he now? I have no ideas, except that not being able to stand is sometimes associated with an infection of the inner ear. Did the vet check for that?

H Boom
September 9th, 2005, 09:00 AM
No addition tests were carried out to determine other possible causes for a 'balance' problem. He can still only lie down. We will be taking him to another vet within an hour for a second opinion. We are hoping for a more encouraging diagnoses.

Herman

badger
September 9th, 2005, 09:44 AM
Please let us know what the new vet says.

justncase
September 9th, 2005, 12:22 PM
You may wish to locate the services for holistic vet in your area who may be able to implement the therapy as mentioned below:

Miraculous recovery from a stroke and paralysis February 10, 2002

On a warm Sunday afternoon, while I was doing yoga on the roof, Shasta appeared to have suffered a stroke while asleep in the shade a few feet away from me.
She woke up and held her head tilted to the side, her eyes bulging. She could not move. She was paralyzed. I immediately grabbed my little homeopathic emergency kit and popped into her mouth arnica and aconite (high potency: cm) every few minutes. These are powerful remedies for traumatic conditions, which help to stop the bleeding and to promote healing.
My husband and I carried her back to our apartment. For the next couple of hours I continued to give her various homeopathic remedies (arnica and aconite, lachesis, strophantus, phosphorous) and herbal extracts ( hawthorne and tienchi ginseng ) to help promote healing and to stop the bleeding. I talked to her and caressed her a lot to keep her calm and did the Reiki energy Healing on her. The Reiki Master was also sending her energy healing.Within an hour, she was able to hold her head straight.
Eventually she fell asleep for about an hour. When she woke up she tried to get up but her rear end was still paralyzed. My husband was already preparing himself to say goodbye to her as he thought that this may be the last day that she may be among us.
I continued to give her the homeopathic and herbal remedies. A couple of hours later, to my total disbelief, Shasta suddenly got up and walked to my husband in the living room. His jaw dropped open in total amazement. I fasted Shasta for 72 hours and continued to give her arnica cm and a combination of hawthorne - tienchi - comfrey herbal extract, three times a day, to help heal the injured tissue. She has completely recovered from her stroke and continues to take long walks in the hills with me.

www.ahvma.org/referral/index.html

H Boom
September 9th, 2005, 02:56 PM
The 'second' opinion vet confirm the diagnoses of the first, a brain hemorrhage. He, however, administered a cortisone injection to reduce the (assumed) brain swelling and 200 ml of saline solution under the skin to avoid dehydration. He did say that if no improvements appear in 24 hours we should seriously consider putting our cat down. If the diagnoses is correct is the 24-48 hours time to show that he has any hope of recovery realistic? He is fully alert (responds to sound, our stoking still makes him purr) , not paralysed, feels pain, he can just not get his coordination/balance together to get up on all fours.

Herman

badger
September 9th, 2005, 04:03 PM
By comparison, doctors wait much longer for humans who have brain bleeds, which sometimes, with rest, reabsorb into the surrounding tissue. I have a feeling you are not about to give up so quickly! If your cat is eating and drinking and does not appear to be in pain (although they hide it better than we do), I would go ahead and try some of the alternate remedies.

Amazing story, Justncase, it belies all the crap swirling around these days about the 'uselessness' of homeopathy. And since the placebo effect doesn't extend to cats (as far as I know), proof that in some cases, it can work 'miracles'.

PS. Dehydrating under the skin lasts a very short time, he must drink and eat to keep up his strength.

justncase
September 9th, 2005, 04:36 PM
The 'second' opinion vet confirm the diagnoses of the first, a brain hemorrhage. He, however, administered a cortisone injection to reduce the (assumed) brain swelling and 200 ml of saline solution under the skin to avoid dehydration. He did say that if no improvements appear in 24 hours we should seriously consider putting our cat down. If the diagnoses is correct is the 24-48 hours time to show that he has any hope of recovery realistic? He is fully alert (responds to sound, our stoking still makes him purr) , not paralysed, feels pain, he can just not get his coordination/balance together to get up on all fours.

Herman

"Fully, alert, responds to sounds, purrs, not paralysed, feels pain...." all very good signs, very good signs indeed. As was mentioned, people do recover from strokes, and they are consistently given more time in the recovery process than has ever been allotted to animals. Healing takes time. A trauma to your cat's system has occurred and it takes time to recover from that. It cannot be rushed. It will happen when it happens. Whenever I read of situations like this I recall a quote by Dr. Martin Goldstein, DVM, a famous holistic vet in private practise in New York. He says this:

" There's one .phenomenon that I think of as spiritual because it occurs among some pets with no explanation except possibly that their spirits have prevailed. With every serious case I do what I can to instill hope in a patient's owner. Holistic medicine is nothing if not a therapy of hope until an animal actually dies there's hope of recovery from even the most dire condition because when you allow for miracles by persisting with the right natural supplements sometimes they occur. Keep up hope, I tell those owners for hope breeds perseverance and perseverance , I'm convinced, is often the element that makes the difference in desperate cases."

Your cat is showing every indication that he is in the process of recovery. Do you have the patience and persistence to wait until he does?And if you wish to contemplate the worst case scenario, that he may never regain his balance nor the full use of his limbs, the site www.handicappedpets.com contains many stories of pets in similar circumstances whose owners says it is just a small glitch in the otherwise full life of their pet.

chico2
September 9th, 2005, 05:28 PM
H Boom,I see you are in the Netherlands,that is a first on this Forum,just wish it was under better circumstances :sad:
Like everyone here says,don't give up on your beautiful Norwegian Forest-cat yet,from what you describe,he has not given up yet..so please don't give up on him..
Also let us know what happens :love:
My big Tabby had similar episodes,but they were episodes,he always regained his mobility after a few minutes and I still do not know what caused it.
Maybe with massages and muscle-strenghtening exercises he will once again be able to walk...even if he is a bit wobbly,he can still live a happy life as long as there is no pain and he has many years to go before being considered old. Good Luck!

the gang
September 9th, 2005, 06:43 PM
i feal for you, last thanksgiving my min pin fell off the sofa, and became total parillzed, with the meds and our spechial chryo mr dakota is about 95% better check out a chryo they are wounderful, hope this helps do not give up hope please keep us posted brenda canada. :fingerscr

badger
September 9th, 2005, 08:07 PM
Just to clarify, gang, you mean a chiropractor?

White Wolf
September 9th, 2005, 08:47 PM
proof that in some cases, it can work 'miracles' The key word here is SOME. Miracles don't occur very often and it's best not to expect them. Like they say, "results are not typical".

Please be careful in trying homeopathy when the animal is already on medications. There can be serious reactions. Consult a vet before trying ANYTHING.

justncase
September 9th, 2005, 09:11 PM
The key word here is SOME. Miracles don't occur very often and it's best not to expect them. Like they say, "results are not typical".

Please be careful in trying homeopathy when the animal is already on medications. There can be serious reactions. Consult a vet before trying ANYTHING.


Actually, there is more chance that the reverse is true. Homeopathy's first rule is " do no harm" and it either plant or other natural substance-based. Drugs are chemical-based, not really in line with the body's chemistry so chemical reactions are more likely to take place. Homeopathy not only can work along with medications but in the majority of cases, it surpasses chemical medications in what it can do. As with anything , common sense is a good standard to go by. Just going to a vet is not going to, necessarily, avail one of all that is available in alternative therapies. Unfortunately, not all vets keep up with the latest conventional therapies, let alone holistic ones. The key is, to find a vet who does.

White Wolf
September 9th, 2005, 11:30 PM
EVERYTHING is chemical based. A lot of plant-based chemicals and natural substances are very harmful. It is never wise to advise somebody to start using them without a doctor's consent. You don't know what medications they are on. You can't assume to be a pharmacist, and if you do, I'd like to see some credentials, please.

H Boom
September 10th, 2005, 07:20 AM
Back to the vet early this morning with our cat, Tag. Being a weekend here we saw another vet in the practice. In his view our cats symptions looked more like Polyneuropathy, a disturbance of the neurology in the spine or there from, as his symtoms are retricted to hist extremities. This disorder is also referred to as "coonhound paralysis". It can also be a common side effects of untreated diabetes, for which our cat has recently been tested. Interesting enough, however, Polyneuropathy can also be a serious side-effect of a rabies vaccination, which our cat had 3 weeks ago (he has had the same vaccine for rabies, "nobivac' manufactured by intervet, the last 4 years). Prognosis still not good, but we wait keep him fed and watered and show him our love.

Herman

chico2
September 10th, 2005, 08:38 AM
Thank you for the update Herman.
I am going to look up Polyneuropathy,here in North America it is now suggested to give rabies vaccine only every three years.
My cats have been vaccinated every year up until last year,it's scary to think they could have this sort of reaction from the vaccine.
All the best to you and Tag :love:

badger
September 10th, 2005, 09:36 AM
You probably are probably already swimming in information, but here is an interesting quote:

The clinical course is variable and may last from a few days to several weeks. In some cases, there are permanent neurologic deficits. Recovered animals may have the condition reoccur. Recurrences are often more severe than the initial incident. Some cases become chronic in nature, requiring more aggressive medication in hopes of controlling the problem. I have found that many of these patients respond better to antioxidant therapy with drugs like acetylcysteine or ginkgo biloba than to steroid medication alone.

lilith_rizel
September 10th, 2005, 12:48 PM
Thank you for the update Herman.
I am going to look up Polyneuropathy,here in North America it is now suggested to give rabies vaccine only every three years.
My cats have been vaccinated every year up until last year,it's scary to think they could have this sort of reaction from the vaccine.
All the best to you and Tag :love:



Chico does that go for any pet, cat or dog??? I know we only have kitties, but it is still something good to know about. Thanks for saying so. I was going to bring Spooks and Morgan in to get their rabies done, when I brought the kitten in that we just aquired.... Another question also, at what age are kittens ready to get their first rabies shot? I am not sure exactly how old the kitten is, I was told she was 9 months when I got her, but she is pretty small, and has grown alot in the past month that I have had her.... So I am thinking that she was only a couple months old when I actually got her...... :confused:

chico2
September 10th, 2005, 02:19 PM
Lilith,I forgot when kittens can have their shots,it was a while ago since I had one...but the 3 yr Rabies-shot goes for cats too.My vet insists on every 2 yrs,so I have to work on her :D my cats are not outside with other animals.
She did however admit,the Feline Leukemia shot is also not needed every year.

justncase
September 10th, 2005, 08:38 PM
EVERYTHING is chemical based. A lot of plant-based chemicals and natural substances are very harmful. It is never wise to advise somebody to start using them without a doctor's consent. You don't know what medications they are on. You can't assume to be a pharmacist, and if you do, I'd like to see some credentials, please.


???????? Everything is not chemical- based. Even a cursory glance at any homeopathy textbook would substantiate that fact. The term " plant-based chemical" is an oxymoron. Some plant substances can produce undesirable and negative results but once they are tamed through homeopathic application ( some substances have been diluted to the 1,000 th degree) it's no longer a matter of dosing someone with the raw material. As for " you can't assume to be a pharmacist....." I think I had concluded my post by saying this " ... not all vets keep with with the latest therapies, let alone holistic once. The key is to find a vet who does." I merely stated the testimonial to show what was possible. It wasn't meant as an invitation for people to go out and grab whatever and apply it willynilly. Speaking of chemically-based, it looks like that rabies vaccine carried a pretty high price-tag in more ways than one.

raingirl
September 10th, 2005, 09:12 PM
I think she whitewolf meant that everything is made of chemicals (ie. Water is hydrogen and oxygen, both chemicals). Everything on earth is a combination of items off the periodic table. Whether it be complex or simple, everything is chemical.

I'm a big fan/used of homeopathic, but keep in mind there are very few regulations for homepathic substances in Canada. There was an instance I recal in the papare where a small company synthesized a homeopathic tab that was supposed to be calming and a sleep aid (you know, those small white round pills in the little tubes) that was made out of a lethal does of deadly night shade...and some people almost died. When used correctly, deadly nightshade can be good, but it is also HIGHLY poisonous.

I mean, penicillin is from mold off of food. It was found out it stopped bacteria, the chemists isolated the natural chemical compound (formula) of the bacteria fighting agent in the mold, and now make "sythetic" forms of it, which are chemically identical.

justncase
September 10th, 2005, 09:43 PM
Hmmm. I think that's why I included the address : www.ahvma.org/referral/index.html and added "It wasn't meant as an invitation for people to go out and grab whatever and apply it willynilly."
There are cases , too numerous to mention, of pets who have died after receiving vaccinations, vet-prescribed flea treatments, and steroids, to name a few . Yet they carry on. Nothing said. Hartz has to pull their flea and tick products off the shelf because it has caused numerous deaths in cats, oh, by March 2006, meanwhile it's still on the shelves, left for the unsuspecting to continue to purchase.

justncase
September 10th, 2005, 10:31 PM
Coonhound paralysis. Dr. Allen Schoen, DVM , on page 77--81 writes this(excerpts) : " The dog was limp as a wet towel, with his tongue hanging out and a steady stream of saliva drooling from his mouth. He couldn't move a muscle below his neck...... At first I thought he might have broken his back......I asked his owner. Bill, a young man about my age, who managed a mountaineering store in New Hampshire. Bill couldn't recall anything specific. All he knew was that the day before, Dash, a Labrador retriever crossbreed had run off for a few hours. when he returned he back legs were so weak they were beginning to drag behind him. Overnight he had become almost completely paralyzed.......I suddenly remembered an obscure disease, coonhound paralysis.... Dash was no coonhound but it sure looked as thought he had the disease ...... a few hours later the veterinary neurologist called with the news " It IS coonhound paralysis" he said. ....
There is no magic bullet that will cure coonhound paralysis. The only treatment is simply to wait out the disease through weeks of painstaking nursing care and hope that the paralysis will gradually disappear......would Bill have the time and patience to go the extra mile for Dash? If he said yes it would mean that for the next two to three months his life and Dash's and mine would be imtimately intertwined. We would be walking down an unknown road to healing and as Dash's vet I would have to be Bills' guide. Bill didn't hesitate for a moment. " Dash is all I have" he said quietly. At home, Bill made a big soft bed for Dash where he could lie comfortably on his side. During the day, Bill rushed home from work every few hours to roll Dash from one side to the other as I had instructed him. At night he set his alarm to wake him up so he could shift Dash's position again. As time-consuming as this effort was, Bill had no choice if he wanted to keep his dog alive. Without such attention, Dash might lie on one side too long and quickly develop pneumonia.........Everything that Dash needed was provided by Bill's loving hands. At mealtime, he tenderly held Dash's head in his lap and spooned the food into his mouth. Each morning and again at nght, he took Dash outside and held him upright over an appropriate spot on the lawn until he finished his business. Through such intimacies, Bill and Dash developed a powerful interdependence that took on a life of its own. Instead of being beaten down by Dash's condition, the two were energized by it, and the routine gave them the needed impetus to make it from one day to the next. With each passing day, Bill's sense of purpose grew. He looked forward eagerly to coming home and taking care of Dash. And Dash reciprocated in the only way he could .His eyes lit up with joy the minute he caught sight of his friend and caretaker.
After only one week there was a faint sign that something in Dash was beginning to stir. When I stopped by one day to check on the patient and the door slammed behind me, Dash raised his head to see who had arrived. "Wow!" I exclaimed" He can lift his head up!" ....... from then on a sense of optimism. I taught him(Bill) how to watch for signs of bedsores or dehydration. I even developed a physical therapy program giving Bill pointers on how to stretch Dash's legs and massage the muscles to increase circulation. If it would help Dash, Bill was willing to try it. Several weeks passed without much change, Dash was still lying flat on his side, and Bill had to come home every couple of hours to roll him over.....Bill's never-say-die determination was rewarded about a month later. Dash was lying motionless on his side, as usual, but then he bent his right front leg and slowly stretched it back out. " Look at that!" Bill shouted. "He's getting better!" Moments later, Dash flexed his left front leg. His hind legs came along a few days later. It took Dash another month to summon enough strength to stand up. He tentatively got to his feet and with his whole body shaking from the strain stood on all fours for a few seconds. Then his legs gave way and he fell back on the bed, where he promptly went to sleep. When he woke up he tried again, and then again.
Four months from the day I had diagnosed his coonhound paralysis, Dash finally returned to normal. But to Dash and Bill nothing would ever be the same. In the constant physical act of giving and receiving, they had become as one. Dash, the faithful mutt who loved hs master unconditionally had received that affection and devotion back tenfold. And Bill, who had always been comforted by the quiet presence of Dash , had found in himself a capacity to care that touched some inner recess of his soul"

Joey.E.CockersMommy
September 10th, 2005, 11:08 PM
My former dog had something similar. We went to call him in from the backyard when he didn't come I got my husband to check on him. He was lying on his side unable to move a muscle. The vet could find nothing wrong, from the x-rays and we couldn't afford any sort of specialists at the time. He ended up at the vet for a week, then was put on steroids, he did make a full recovery but it was a few weeks until he was back to normal.

justncase
September 11th, 2005, 05:14 PM
You probably are probably already swimming in information, but here is an interesting quote:

The clinical course is variable and may last from a few days to several weeks. In some cases, there are permanent neurologic deficits. Recovered animals may have the condition reoccur. Recurrences are often more severe than the initial incident. Some cases become chronic in nature, requiring more aggressive medication in hopes of controlling the problem. I have found that many of these patients respond better to antioxidant therapy with drugs like acetylcysteine or ginkgo biloba than to steroid medication alone.


Badger, could you tell me the source of that quote? I'd like to put a name to the information for reference and clarification's sake. Any link or is it from a book? (thanks)