Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

New food for Sadie - Innova EVO?

Sadie's Mom
August 29th, 2005, 03:55 AM
Just wondering how your dogs are doing on this food?

I'm in the process of switching Sadie. I had been feeding Eukanuba... :sorry: But I'm finally getting around to trying to find a better quality food. It's SO hard to choose!! :confused: Ever since I switched her from puppy to adult food she's looked underweight. Her ribs are actually a tiny bit visible, as is her spine.

Innova EVO was what the pet planet people pushed on me, and it seemed good until I did the research and now I'm a little freaked out about the extremely high protein level. How have you guys found the regular Innova food?

Sadie is very energetic, but in bouts. She sleeps a lot too. We're just starting agility, so her exercise level is upped a little. She weighs 8.5 lbs and has a somewhat sensitive tummy. Can anyone recommend another food that would be good? She's the love of my life. I just want to find what's best for her.

Also, do you think pet planet will take back the opened bag of EVO when I tell them my concerns?

EDIT: Oops, so sorry! Wrong forum. Can you tell I haven't heen here in a while?

coppperbelle
August 29th, 2005, 07:00 AM
I am very wary about any Innova food especially the Evo one. I have heard some horror stories of how dogs become seriously ill after eating it. It is a very rich food.
When I was switching my guys I went to a store that carried all kinds of good foods. The guy was really pushing this food and it turned me off. I decided to buy what I had intended on buying (Solid Gold). When I got home I went on my message board and told people about the Innova and that is when I heard all the horror stories.
Another time when visiting the store again another clerk tried to push the Innova. I asked him if any of his dogs had trouble on it and he told me that one of his danes did, bloody diarrhea. That was enough for me.

Dogastrophe
August 29th, 2005, 07:42 AM
I had mine on regular Innova and they seemed to do quite well on it.

BMDLuver
August 29th, 2005, 08:07 AM
First let me say that I just visited your home page and Sadie is a cutie patootie! As Sadie is a very small little lady, have you considered doing a raw diet with her? It would probably be less expensive than purchasing food as she is only 8.5lbs. It is very beneficial to them and much easier on the digestive system. Just a thought. :)

Sadie's Mom
August 29th, 2005, 12:51 PM
I'd love to feed raw, especially since she is somewhat sensitive and she would probably really benefit, but it's just not going to happen right now. My parents take care of her a lot of the time, as does my bf when I'm at work and school. I'm super fortunate that I'm even able to have a dog and be a student at the same time. I need a kibble food that's easy to transport and feed. Hopefully someday I'll be able to switch her to BARF.

With the Innova, did any of the horror stories involve the regular food? I can't seem to find another food with as natural an ingredient list as the Innova. I'd like to feed something with slightly higher fat and protein than regular food, but yeah, the extreme protein in the EVO is making me wary of it.

ETA: How do you guys feel about Royal Canin food? They have one called Mini especially for small dogs, but the fifth ingredient is corn meal...?

Prin
August 29th, 2005, 01:05 PM
Have you looked at this one:
Just a wee bit (http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/products/showproduct.php?id=68&code=140)

I'm feeding my big doggies the Wolf king and it does wonders for their energy levels, their fur softness and shine and their overall health. The Just a Wee Bit is supposed to be formulated for little active doggies, such that you can feed less every day and still get them the calories and nutrients they need. ;)

As for Evo, I feel the same way as coppperbelle. 42% protein is very very high. I'm just not convinced that that is the best proportion for dogs.

mafiaprincess
August 29th, 2005, 02:34 PM
I've heard far too many horror stories about evo too. The protein level probably being responsible for decreased kidney use, or I've heard of some cases of kidney failure. In the decreased kidney function, some of the dogs showed no signs of problems, and it was only through bloodwork for other things that any problem was found.

It scares me that unlike messy poop and such when a dog is incompatible with food, that evo may not outwardly show that your dog has an issue. I've read threads here about other people being concerned about protein levels, and talked to some vet techs who agreed that the protein level in most breeds would be a problem, but there isn't enough info around at this point to concretely prove it..

When brought up on another forum I frequent there's one person who is very very fro evo, and flips right out when bad things are mentioned, brushes them off as absolute lies. So you'll find wary people and people who think it's the greatest food on earth when inquiring about it.

BMDLuver
August 29th, 2005, 02:51 PM
That food looks excellent Prin! :thumbs up

Keep in mind that the Barf diet also comes ready prepared and frozen for those inconvenient times.

coppperbelle
August 29th, 2005, 03:10 PM
With the Innova, did any of the horror stories involve the regular food? I can't seem to find another food with as natural an ingredient list as the Innova. I'd like to feed something with slightly higher fat and protein than regular food, but yeah, the extreme protein in the EVO is making me wary of it.

Actually most of the stories I was told involved the regular food. The Evo is fairly new so I have not heard as many but still a few. The illnesses are long term and in one case the dog will probably have problems for its life.

Prin
August 29th, 2005, 03:23 PM
Why risk anything when there are other foods without any doubt? ;)

ILoveMutts!
August 29th, 2005, 04:20 PM
I don't understand why a high protein - low carb diet would hurt a carnivore. Maybe there's something else in the Innova food that makes dogs sick?

mafiaprincess
August 29th, 2005, 04:35 PM
I've only heard bad stuff about the evo. I don't know much about the 'normal' innova food. I was looking into feeding evo myself..

High amounts of protein can be hard on a dog. Evo is recommended generally for dogs that burn calories liek mad, like working dogs, sibes, mals, etc. But many of the breeds the food should be good for, are the breeds I've heard having problems with it.

Prin
August 29th, 2005, 07:45 PM
I just think that if meat is around 20-30% protein by weight, so should dog food...

Sadie's Mom
August 29th, 2005, 10:09 PM
Alright guys, I'm pretty much convinced to not feed the EVO. I don't see why I'd risk it.

That Solid Gold food looks great, but they don't seem to have a distributor in Edmonton. :(

Any other recommendations? My research continues!

ILoveMutts!
August 29th, 2005, 10:16 PM
I just think that if meat is around 20-30% protein by weight, so should dog food...

But meat isn't dry food. If you take out the water from the meat you will be left with a very high percentage of protein.

Sadie's Mom
August 29th, 2005, 11:51 PM
Ok, I think I've narrowed it down. It's either going to be Solid Gold - Just a Wee Bit (if I can find it) or Nutro - Ultra or Max Mini Chunk.

I cannot even BELIEVE how tough this is.

I think the Nutro will probably be a lot more affordable than the Solid Gold. The Max Mini Chunk, which is a small breed formula, seems to have a lot of wheat in it. Here are the first five: Chicken Meal, Wheat Flour, Ground Whole Wheat, Rice Bran, Poultry Fat. Don't know how I much I'm liking that list.

Ultra adult is: Chicken Meal, Whole Brown Rice, Ground Rice, Lamb Meal, Rice Bran, Sunflower Oil. I think I like that better. The protein is the same, but Mini Chunk has higher fat. Could I just even it out by feeding on the high range for her weight?

My Dad is an agrologist and works in animal feeds, so I'm going to talk to him about the foods and see what he thinks.

Any comments or concerns from you experts? I appreciate all the help I can get! This is tough.

Prin
August 30th, 2005, 01:01 AM
Heh heh- just so you know- we just got this forum a couple of days ago. It's brand new!! :)

You don't need a distributer... The distributer supplies all the stores in Western Canada. If you look on the distributer's website (Retailers in Alberta (http://www.optimaldog.com/retailers/alberta.html)) under store locator, you find this list (for Edmonton):
All-Care Vet & Pet Supplies 13008-82 St. NW (780) 472-7759
Amazon Pet Care 3016-106 St. (780) 438-3130
G & E Pharmacy 7326-82 Ave. (780) 469-7667
Health Works 8621-104 Street (780) 433-7604
It's A Dog's Life 6764-99th Street (780) 432-2275
Sadie's Pet Shop 5716-111 St. (780) 448-1737
Tail Blazers 7520 Gateway Blvd., United Center (780) 444-7297

But you'd have to call to see who has the Just a Wee bit. (Just so you're not shocked :eek: this little doggy food is a tad pricey... The Wolf King is almost the same, just a bit less dense and it is cheaper. Just because they say it's for large breeds, I wouldn't totally count it out..)

Sadie's Mom
August 30th, 2005, 01:12 AM
Cool Prin. You've been a huge help! A few of those stores are near me. I'm liking the Wee Bit's protein/fat percentages the most. I'm guessing since they're higher, I won't have to feed more to get her weight up a bit (my poor skinny baby!)

Does the Solid Gold food contain wheat or corn products? What about animal by-products? I'm totally overwhelmed right now and you seem like the expert on Solid Gold. Also, what are the advantages to feeding Bison over the more traditional Chicken and Lamb foods? Do you think this food is significantly better than the nutro and will it be a lot more expensive? Nutro Ultra has three rice ingredients in its top five. :confused:

Sorry, so many questions!!

Prin
August 30th, 2005, 01:25 AM
LOL No worries. About 6 months ago, I was you! :)

The just a wee bit's ingredients don't have any by-products, wheat, corn, soy, etc. They pride themselves on it.

Ingredients:
Bison | Salmon Meal | Millet | Brown Rice | Cracked Pearled Barley | Rice Bran | Canola Oil | Flaxseed Oil | Garlic | Amaranth | Blueberries | Yucca Schidigera Extract | Dried Chicory Root | Taurine | Carotene | Choline Chloride | Vitamin E Supplement | Iron Proteinate | Zinc Proteinate | Copper Proteinate | Manganese Proteinate | Potassium Iodide | Thiamine Mononitrate | Ascorbic Acid | Vitamin A Supplement | Biotin | Calcium Panthothenate | Selenomethionine | Pyridoxine Hydrochloride | Vitamin B12 Supplement | Riboflavin | Vitamin D Supplement | Folic Acid |

I think it's better than Nutro, but I'm biased... :) I think Solid Gold is a bit more expensive but not by much. I don't know exactly how much the Wee bit costs, but the Wolf King costs $67/33lbs, about $40/15lbs and $25/6lbs. I believe the Just a Wee Bit only comes in 15lbs.

The advantage over lamb and chicken... Hmm. Well, quite a few dogs have a very hard time digesting Lamb, but chicken is ok. To be honest, the best reason to buy the Wee bit or the Wolf King is the Salmon meal. I think it's the salmon that really does the job on the coat. The coat is soooo shiny on this food.

See jemma?

Sadie's Mom
August 30th, 2005, 01:39 AM
Thanks a ton Prin. I think I'll compare prices and see if the difference is enormous, although price is not really a huge object since a bag of food lasts a while when it's only one dog and she's only 8.5 lbs (hopefully soon to be 9.5!).

The Nutro Ultra has Salmon too, but it's not even close to being way at the top like in the Solid Gold. I know Bison is a very lean source of protein also, for humans that is.

I just checked and an 8lb bag of Eukanuba at G&E cost me $15.50. Yikes, I guess you get what you pay for!! I guess I'll make my way over to G&E. They carry every brand imaginable at more affordable prices. They're very no frills.

And WOW is Jemma every gorgeous!! :love:

Prin
August 30th, 2005, 01:47 AM
Thanks. Even Boo (I don't have any recent pics of him yet) has very fluffy fur and I always assumed that "fluffy" meant "can't be shiny", but he is soooo shiny and soft. People at our park call him the Lapin (rabbit). It's so nice to see your doggies so healthy! :love:

You can sort of see how shiny he is in this one (sorry for Jemma's rudeness in the background!! :D ).

Prin
August 30th, 2005, 02:04 AM
I did the math and if my 33lbs is $67.99, than the 15lbs of Wee Bit should be about $42... :eek:

ILoveMutts!
August 30th, 2005, 04:03 AM
I'm liking the Wee Bit's protein/fat percentages the most. I'm guessing since they're higher, I won't have to feed more to get her weight up a bit

Only if the calories are higher as well.

Prin
August 30th, 2005, 12:43 PM
They are- it's a food formulated for little dogs. It's made so they shouldn't have to eat their weight in dog food every day... :D

heeler's rock!
August 30th, 2005, 11:10 PM
I got freaked too when I read about high protein causing kidney problems, but it turns out that new research has found that it's actually phosphorus (sp?) that causes kidney damage. My 3 dogs are all on Evo and LOVE it. I also got blood work done on my boder collie when she recently got spayed, and her kidneys are just fine. She was on raw from inside her mom's tummy, and with us she's been on raw and Evo for the last year with no problems at all.

If Evo was so bad, I would think every dog would suffer from complications. I have 3 dogs on it, and they've been on it for almost a year now, and they're all healthy, energetic, and happy. I see no problems with the food. It's like with raw diets. Some dogs do well, others don't. Kia (border collie) didn't do well on Eukanuba when we fed it to them a year and a half ago, where as Red and Helix did. (Well, as good as they can do on a crappy food! LOL!! :o) It's all about the dog in my opinion. I love the food and will never switch them, unless it's to raw food again. :o

heeler's rock!
August 30th, 2005, 11:14 PM
Also, to be fair, although Solid Gold is a great food, a lot of retailers by me don't stock up on it as they don't recommend it a lot. They say that's because it's inconsistant when it comes to ingredient quality. I heard that's mostly for the Millenia formula though, so it may not apply to Wolf King, which was recently discontinued by Pet Planet here I heard, but am not sure why. Bottom line though, each dogs tastes, and needs vary so much, that it just takes some time and maybe a few different foods to determine what they'll like and do best on. :o

Prin
August 30th, 2005, 11:22 PM
They say solid gold can change color slightly from bag to bag because the ingredients are not exactly the same, but I haven't noticed a change in all the bags I have bought so far.

heeler's rock!
August 30th, 2005, 11:32 PM
That's good to know Prin :)! I didn't know to much about the ingredient differences from bag to bag, but never really bothered to question it too much as we're happy with Evo. I used to feed the Millenia formula to Red years ago, but then switched her to Eukanuba as her trainer and of course the vet told me it was a good food. I figured it was easier to find than the Millenia. Boy, I'll never switch to Eukanuba again though!! I still fed it to Red when we got Kia, so I put her on it too. It made Kia sooooo sick! Poor thing. I almost thought I was gonna lose her, and I haven't looked back. :o

Prin
August 30th, 2005, 11:34 PM
I think we can all agree not to feed Euk!! :D

Joey.E.CockersMommy
August 31st, 2005, 11:54 AM
Joey is trying the wee bit right now and he seems to love it. Then we are going to try the Solid Gold Holistic, than maybe the nutro before we make any final decisions.

Roxy's_MA
August 31st, 2005, 12:11 PM
Prin - Your dogs are so shiny and beautiful. I am sold! :)

I think I will try that wee bit. I have been looking for something new. I am feeding Acana right now, it is a good food, but I don't think Roxy likes it that much, but is one of the first ones that I tried that she would actually eat.

Sadie's Mom
September 1st, 2005, 02:19 PM
Yeah, I'm so pumped to get her off Eukanuba! I can't believe vets recommend that crap. I guess it's not the worst thing we could be feeding, but there are so many better foods out there. There's so much to think about when you get a puppy. You don't even realize the vet might be giving you a crappy recommendation for food. :mad:

And Joey's mom, it'd be great to try a bunch of different foods, but unfortuneately Sadie has a sensitive tummy and I need to try to find the best food for her without experimenting too much.

Heeler's, the EVO does seem like an amazing food. But even with the horror stories aside, I don't know if it's the best thing to help me put a little weight on Sadie. I've heard a lot of dogs lean down on it.

I think I'm going with the Nutro Ultra guys. Hopefully I won't have any problems finding it. And if that one doesn't do Sadie good, I'll switch to Solid Gold.

Thank you all so much for your help! I always know I can count on you guys when I need doggy advice. :love: :love: :love:

Prin
September 1st, 2005, 11:42 PM
Prin - Your dogs are so shiny and beautiful. I am sold! :)

I think I will try that wee bit. I have been looking for something new. I am feeding Acana right now, it is a good food, but I don't think Roxy likes it that much, but is one of the first ones that I tried that she would actually eat.
Aw shucks... :o

Try to get samples first. :) And change very gradually.

Joey.E.CockersMommy
September 2nd, 2005, 08:50 AM
Joey seems to love the wee bit. The only its for dogs up to 20 pounds and Joey is a massive 27 pounds. Also the wolf king seems to be cheaper price wise but its for larger dogs.

Also the holistic (solosi gold) I havent tried yet but it says its only 18% protein although its got lots of good stuff in it to. Cranberries for one. I dont remember all the ingredients at the moment.

SchnauzerGirl
October 5th, 2005, 06:16 PM
My Schultz was on Nutro Natural, and did well on it except for his really smelly flatulence problem. We switched to Medi-cal puppy which stopped the smelliness but now he seems to be itching his mouth. I went out and bought Innova Evo yesterday to see if it works and now am worried that it might not be the right food. I have heard that miniature schnauzers have a tendency to develop pancreatitus; do you think that it might be too rich of a diet?

Prin
October 6th, 2005, 12:01 AM
I have a problem with it, and have heard pretty bad stories about it... I didn't want to bring it up in the other thread where you posted about allergies, because you seemed pretty set, but if it is allergies, I think it would be sufficient to find a food that has different grains than the usual suspects (wheat, corn, soy and sometimes even rice). I think Evo is an extreme food, and I'm just an average person. ;)

For me, if I had one mini Schnauzer that I couldn't figure out the allergies of, I would probably end up feeding a raw diet. That way you can totally choose what you are feeding, and for one small dog, it wouldn't break the bank or be an incredible amount of work. I don't feed raw, but if you would like info, a few members here do. :)

SchnauzerGirl
October 6th, 2005, 12:34 PM
It's amazing that they will sell you anything at the pet store. I haven't opened the bag so I will see if I can take it back. I have been thinking about a raw food diet but am really hesitant about it mainly because I am worried that Schultz could get sick if it isn't fresh enough. After reading what you have said about Solidgold, I think I am going to see if I can find it somewhere locally.

Prin
October 6th, 2005, 03:14 PM
If you go with Solid Gold, get the "Just a Wee Bit" one. It's made for little doggies. I'm really happy with Solid Gold so far. I've never seen my doggies so healthy.
Just a Wee Bit (http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/products/showproduct.php?id=68&code=140)

mars
October 6th, 2005, 04:57 PM
i'm going throught the same dillemma thinking i really need to learn more about different foods. i've been feeding my 2-year-old border collie/lab ben performatrin ultra. but was introduced to innova yesterday, am getting mixed reviews on it so now skeptical of it as well, and am still confused as ever! how about dick van patten's food?

doggy lover
October 6th, 2005, 05:21 PM
I've been feeding Tucker Solid Gold rice and lamb formula for a few months now and I have had no problems changing him over, when he went to the vet a week ago he said it was fine and that Tucker was just healthy and beautiful as he could be.

SchnauzerGirl
October 6th, 2005, 05:57 PM
Yippee! There is a pet store that is 45 minutes out of town that sells Solid Gold. She said that the wee bit is their best seller and she can't say enough good things about it. She said that she is going to give me a booklet and brochure on holistic dog foods because there is so much of it out there that is excellent and it is really up to the owner and dog to determine what works best. When I asked her about Innova EVo, she said it shouldn't be fed as a dry kibble on its own because of the high protein content - that it is intended for combining it with raw diets, although she said that she isn't an expert on raw. So I am off to the pet store!

Joey.E.CockersMommy
October 6th, 2005, 09:04 PM
Joey is on just a wee bit, I can tell is coat is starting to look shinier now and he even seems to have more energy than before. So now we have to keep up to him when we go on our walks.

Prin
October 6th, 2005, 09:29 PM
I'm glad Joey is doing well. It's actually stressful for me sometimes- thinking how I'm encouraging you all to get solid gold and basically I'm sitting here hoping they do as well as my doggies. :fingerscr I've looked around, and it's really hard to find good foods that are significantly better than Wellness, Solid Gold, Chicken Soup for the Pet lover's soul, Eagle Pack, and other foods of that level. Maybe there isn't enough demand yet...

For now, I just hope I'm pointing you all in the right direction. :) :o

If I ever get onto raw, I'll probably peddle that too (if it goes well...).

SchnauzerGirl
October 7th, 2005, 01:26 PM
I bought a small bag of wee bit last night and will slowly start integrating it into his regular food. I have one concern though, is Schultz who is 8 1/2 months, too young to start eating "adult" food?

Prin
October 7th, 2005, 01:29 PM
There's actually some controversy with that with little doggies. Some breeders firmly believe that smaller dogs should be put on adult food when they are neutered, while others say wait a year. Since the Wee Bit is so high in protein and fat, I think it is actually pretty comparable to puppy food. He is a small doggy so calcium is not as big a factor.

SchnauzerGirl
October 7th, 2005, 02:23 PM
Geeze, I hope that he doesn't grow anymore! He is an unusually tall miniature schnauzer - last time I measured him at 17" and the breed generally is only 14". Everyone asks me if he is a standard schnauzer puppy!

Sadie's Mom
October 7th, 2005, 07:09 PM
Since this thread was bumped, I'll update on Sadie. We went with Nutro Ultra, and I honestly could not be happier! I think I started noticing a change within a week of being on only the Ultra (so probably about three weeks after starting to mix it in with her old food). By two weeks of just Ultra, Sadie had already fattened up nicely. She's now at a great weight. I think it was only a difference of about a pound for her, but she looks a LOT better at 9 lbs than she did at 8 lbs. No more sharp bones sticking out anywhere on her body. She's still a bundle of energy. Her output has been SO consistent. Always the same color, texture and consistency (TMI? :p ). Her coat is glossy and sleek now too!

Thank you so much for all your help with this everyone.

And for people who are still trying to find the right food for their doggies, just keep it up. It's tough, but totally worth it when you find what works.

"Just a Wee Bit" was our next choice if the Nutro didn't work out. It's probably an even better food, but not quite as widely available as the Nutro and a bit more expensive.

shydie
October 16th, 2005, 11:35 PM
dogs who get sick from evo need a fiber supplement.

my vet, who is big on homeopathy and holistic practice recommended evo to me.

after a week, they all got bad diarrhea.

when i called him, he said it's not uncommon. evo is a very dense food. it is, however an excellent diet, but lacks propper fiber. he recommeded that i get fiber supplements from "YERBA" (make sure you get the capsules). after that, they have been just fine.

so if you find your dog is getting loose stools from the food, get them on some fiber supps.

hope it helps.