Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

irritated with breeders

lunasnoopy
August 27th, 2005, 10:18 AM
Now is it only me or what who thinks this?

There are millions of dogs on the streets and in humane societies, cute animals ready to be put down, and people are still breeding their dogs and so hung up about what breed their dog is. Makes me sick.

Today was out with a neighbour who has a pure bred GSD in this country (in the middle east) with soooooo many stray dogs that people throw stones at. (That is why we have 2 ex strays-couldnt bare to see them). And he is saying how much his dog is a pure breed blah blah. Like I am impressed.

I hate this. All people who want a dog should go to the humane society ONLY. Pet stores should be banned, period. Breeders must be banned. All animals have to be spayed period. Now when the humane societies around the country is out of business or animals as all the animales have been adopted, THEN start breeding to make the canine race non extinct.

Tell me how you feel about this breeding business.


.

LavenderRott
August 27th, 2005, 10:34 AM
Let's just hold the phone for a second here!

There is nothing wrong with people prefering purebred animals. However, having said that, such animals should either be rescued from rescue or purchased from Code of Ethic Breeders that breed for the best of the best of their breed.

Yes, I agree that something serious needs to be done to curb the numbers of homeless animals, but if we spayed/neutered every dog on the planet, then they would be extinct in less then 20 years! Personally, I can't imagine my life without a dog. Although, I am also sure that my husband would award a Noble Peace Prize to whoever managed to eliminate the world dog population! :D

mona_b
August 27th, 2005, 10:53 AM
Ditto on what Sandi said.

It's the BYB's who need to be banned.And what we need is a s/n law to come into effect.

Reputable breeders have s/n contracts for their pups.And also a Non-Breeding contract.

I grew up with GSD's.And I owned my first when I was 17.I did not get him from a BYB.I got him from a reputable breeder who Showed and Titled her dogs.And also had then health and genetic tested/certified.I was also put on a Neuter contract.And if I didn't get him neutered at 6 months,my butt would have been in court and I would have been fined $5000 for going aginst her contract.When I lost Cujo,I went back to my breeder,and I got Tron and Yukon.

The GSD is a breed close to my heart.As many on here know.

Reputable breeders breed to better the breed.

BYB's are only in it for the money.

Just remember,it's the irresponsible owners who's dogs end up in the shelters.

doggy lover
August 27th, 2005, 07:07 PM
I think that people have the choice to get a purebred or not. Yes my dog now is a purebred and my last dog was a cross. It is not professional breeders that are causing the problems Its people who are irresponsible and let their dog get pregnant because they are too cheap to fix them, or say oh just one litter.Then there are the people who get a dog on a whim and get rid of it because it didn't turn out to be what they wanted, or it was too much work. Both my dogs were neutered at 6 months, as I don't believe in adding to the problem, even though they were males I wouldn't want them to become daddies because someone else didn't get thier female fixed. Some people figure that because their dog is male its not their problem. So don't get mad at me because I wanted a purebred, my dog is here to stay with me for life.

LL1
August 27th, 2005, 07:15 PM
Agree with you.Any person wanting a purebred can go to the zillions of purebred rescues in Canada and the US.Many all breed rescues also have purebreds regularly,and many are in shelters.

Now is it only me or what who thinks this?

There are millions of dogs on the streets and in humane societies, cute animals ready to be put down, and people are still breeding their dogs and so hung up about what breed their dog is. Makes me sick.

Today was out with a neighbour who has a pure bred GSD in this country (in the middle east) with soooooo many stray dogs that people throw stones at. (That is why we have 2 ex strays-couldnt bare to see them). And he is saying how much his dog is a pure breed blah blah. Like I am impressed.

I hate this. All people who want a dog should go to the humane society ONLY. Pet stores should be banned, period. Breeders must be banned. All animals have to be spayed period. Now when the humane societies around the country is out of business or animals as all the animales have been adopted, THEN start breeding to make the canine race non extinct.

Tell me how you feel about this breeding business.


.

Joey.E.CockersMommy
August 27th, 2005, 07:31 PM
I wanted a purebred dog, but there was no way I would have gone to a petstore or a byb. I ended up getting an adult rehome from a breeder. Which isnt technically a rescue as the owner would not have sent the dog the shelter. We actually were on the list for a rescue and for a puppy from a breeder. When we were contacted about Joey we saw it as it good fit for us and we ended up adopting him. The same day we got him home we were offered a puppy from a breeder that said one of the owners changed their mind.

I feel guilty for not adopting from our shelter but honestly all of the dogs up there I dont think I would be experienced enough to handle. Eventually I may consider a second small rescue dog in a year or two once we are accustomed to having one dog.

I did speak with the owner of a new petstore in town about his over priced mixed breed dogs, no of course there not puppymill dogs we would never do that. Ya right tell me what reputable breeder would sell to your petstore at the very least they are BYBS. :mad:

Prin
August 27th, 2005, 08:41 PM
Part of me thinks it's just not fair that I never get to pick out my doggy's traits, instincts and tendencies.

It's not fair that I'll never have a puppy. So whenever there is a thread about pictures of puppies becoming adults, I'll never be able to partake in it, because I won't know how cute my babies were. Some dumper got the cute baby part of my babies' lives..


It's not fair that if I actually do get the breed I want, it will probably have been bred by an irresponsible BYB and will probably have hip dysplasia, blindness, elbow problems, or perhaps one of the tons of other potential genetic diseases.

It's not fair that because of the horrible breeding that my dogs usually come from, I don't get to keep them as long because, no matter what I do, they simply just don't get that old.

It's not fair that I will never have a dog that will come home without any serious bagage.

It's not fair that my doggy has to end up suffering when he didn't do anything to deserve it.

But- As long as there are older dogs in shelters, I will get them. The 2 year olds. The 4 year olds. They're just not as cute as the 8 week olds. They deserve homes almost more than the ones who are still young. They seem to know what is going on a helluva lot more. :sad:

But I'm not entirely selfless. I have an extremely hard time adopting a senior dog because it would just be too painful for me. It sucks because I know they need people the most, but it would absolutely break my heart.

I don't blame the reputable breeders at all. I have never adopted a health tested, pedigreed doggy from a shelter before. They're just not that common. Untested, unpedigreed but still ok healthwise are a dime a dozen. :rolleyes:

I really don't know how you all in rescue do it. I really don't.

LL1
August 27th, 2005, 08:57 PM
Why do you assume any of that?
It's not fair that I'll never have a puppy. So whenever there is a thread about pictures of puppies becoming adults, I'll never be able to partake in it, because I won't know how cute my babies were. Some dumper got the cute baby part of my babies' lives..


It's not fair that if I actually do get the breed I want, it will probably have been bred by an irresponsible BYB and will probably have hip dysplasia, blindness, elbow problems, or perhaps one of the tons of other potential genetic diseases.

It's not fair that because of the horrible breeding that my dogs usually come from, I don't get to keep them as long because, no matter what I do, they simply just don't get that old.

It's not fair that I will never have a dog that will come home without any serious bagage.

It's not fair that my doggy has to end up suffering when he didn't do anything to deserve it.

But- As long as there are older dogs in shelters, I will get them. The 2 year olds. The 4 year olds. They're just not as cute as the 8 week olds. They deserve homes almost more than the ones who are still young. They seem to know what is going on a helluva lot more. :sad:

But I'm not entirely selfless. I have an extremely hard time adopting a senior dog because it would just be too painful for me. It sucks because I know they need people the most, but it would absolutely break my heart.

I don't blame the reputable breeders at all. I have never adopted a health tested, pedigreed doggy from a shelter before. They're just not that common. Untested, unpedigreed but still ok healthwise are a dime a dozen. :rolleyes:

I really don't know how you all in rescue do it. I really don't.

Prin
August 27th, 2005, 09:12 PM
What? This is what I have had. I am explaining my personal experience. It's what I feel. :confused: Are you kidding?

LL1
August 27th, 2005, 09:14 PM
No I am not kidding.You can get whatever you want in rescue.It should not be seen as a sacrifice in any way.There are wonderful dogs.

Prin
August 27th, 2005, 09:17 PM
I'm not saying they're not wonderful. Did I say they're not wonderful? I get older mixes. Mixes are not from good breeding. :confused: I wouldn't trade my doggies for any others, but they certainly are not easy. I spent $2000+ on Boo in the first two months we had him. Not exactly healthy. :rolleyes: And he wasn't the first and certainly won't be the last.

LL1
August 27th, 2005, 09:19 PM
And you dont have to restrict yourself to that if you dont want to.If it is your choice,that is different.

Prin
August 27th, 2005, 09:39 PM
There are more black mixes here than anything else. If I don't get them, who will? Why would I wait for a purebred dog, which is probably in high demand anyway, than adopt one who needs a home and is in far less demand?

If I didn't get Boo, what are the odds that the person who would have would have kept him despite him throwing up all night every night for over 3 months? I have always had dogs with "defects" because I could afford it and handle it. I'm not going to stop getting them just because I wish for a nice healthy puppy now and then.

If you have a conscience, sometimes you don't have a choice to make. I'm not saying that I don't love these doggies. I'm saying that it's not fair that the world is such a crappy place that there are so many of them that are homeless and mistreated. That's what I was trying to say.


And the dogs don't have signs around their necks that say "I have super separation anxiety," or "I'll throw up all night every night," or "I almost have a hip problem," but they deserve a home as much as another who is healthy and young.

Joey.E.CockersMommy
August 27th, 2005, 09:41 PM
Prin I thought your post was very touching. It seems to me that your not sacrificing anything and just geniunley love your dogs. Yes of course you could choose different and get a purebred from a breeder like some of us have choosen (like myself) Hopefully there is as many or more people wanting rescue dogs (like yourself and many others on the board) as purebred dogs from breeders. I dont know if we will get a second dog but if we did I would want it to from a rescue, because much as I love Joey I still have some guilt for not getting a rescue. :)

Prin
August 27th, 2005, 09:42 PM
Thanks Joey's mom. :)

LL1
August 27th, 2005, 09:50 PM
I misread your post,it came across as bitter about not being able to get what you really wanted in a rescue or shelter dog,and was merely pointing out you can get all of that in rescues and shelters,no need to take in dogs you dont want to have.

Prin
August 27th, 2005, 10:42 PM
LOL Misunderstandings... The fuel for the fire. :)

No, for sure you can get any dog you want from rescues. (put it in bold so the lurkers see it for sure ;) ). You can get super healthy ones, pure breeds, etc. But the healthy, happy, well adjusted ones go quick. And the rest stay there, sometimes a long time, before someone adopts them, or worse, they get euthanized.

To be honest, I got Boo because he looked like a newf, and newfs are easy to train in comparison to the rest of the dogs they had in stock that day, which was important because this was my boyfriend's first dog. But geez, was he a handful in the beginning. I had originally picked a little growly lab that I thought would never get adopted because she was just so unsocial. But the next day she was gone (they told me they don't euthanize on weekends... :fingerscr ), and there was Boo. (Little did I know he had lotsa pointer in him.. :D )

I know that I will do everything I can possibly do for a dog in its lifetime. I have never rehomed a dog (knock on wood). I was raised in a family that collected everybody's discarded doggies and we kept them till it was their time, no matter what. I love that about my childhood (the one thing I love the most).

Being that that is my upbringing, I somehow don't think it's fair to the dogs that don't have a chance that I go out and get an easy one instead. It's just what I have to do.

When I was trying to foster a greyhound (I haven't heard back still) and she was surprised that I didn't care about separation anxiety, I realized that living with abandoned doggies, I can't imagine my life without doggies with separation anxiety. :D How do you know they love you if your shoes don't get ripped to pieces? :D

LL1
August 27th, 2005, 10:47 PM
Ok I can sort of see what you meant.Rescues often take the ones nobody wanted,and ones being killed in shelters,they also deserve being adopted by good homes,purebred or mixes.And many of those fit the criteria you said you will never have.Just wanted to point out that is not reality,and well bred dogs also land in rescue.People think dogs from breeders that everyone thinks are reputable,and well known in the show world,or what have you,do not land in rescue and that is not true.You have to actually be in rescue,or be trying to return your own dog to them to know the truth.;)

Prin
August 27th, 2005, 10:53 PM
So you mean even the people who claim to take dogs back are just pretending? Or the customers don't adhere the contract?

LL1
August 27th, 2005, 11:02 PM
I dont understand what you are asking?Unless you are a rescue taking in dogs that the breeders will NOT take back,or someone who bought a dog from the breeder and decides they do not want to keep the dog and try and return it and the breeder says NO,you do not know if they are reputable or ethical

Prin
August 27th, 2005, 11:06 PM
I'm asking if there are circumstances in which the breeder makes you sign a contract saying you'll bring the dog back, but then when you bring the dog back they won't take it.

Obviously if the purchaser brings the dog to the SPCA without the breeder's knowledge, it's not necessarily the breeder's fault (except for not following up enough).

StaceyB
August 27th, 2005, 11:08 PM
I think what everyone is saying is that purebred dogs from rep breeders don't end up in rescues nearly as often as dogs from puppy mills/ pet store puppies, BYB's, and the household accidents. There is more care taken to keep these dogs out of shelters. No care is taken with any of the others.
As far as I am concerned pet stores shouldn't be allowed to sell dogs and breeders must have a special licence to breed. Anyone breeding w/o said licence would be fined.
The states does this far more often than we do here, some shelters and I know there is controvercial views about doing it but it would control some of this. All puppies sold in pet stores should be fixed before you get them. At least it is a start.

LL1
August 27th, 2005, 11:12 PM
Happens all the time that they will not take back from their buyers.Cant tell you how many calls I and my rescue pals get.I always call the breeder and confirm that yes they will not take their own dogs back.

And all CKC reg dogs are chipped or tattooed,and yes many times they wont take their own from shelters either,and I get and rescue pals get those calls too.I sometimes help the shelters trace the tattoo when they are really busy and make those calls to the breeder myself.


I'm asking if there are circumstances in which the breeder makes you sign a contract saying you'll bring the dog back, but then when you bring the dog back they won't take it.

Obviously if the purchaser brings the dog to the SPCA without the breeder's knowledge, it's not necessarily the breeder's fault (except for not following up enough).

Prin
August 27th, 2005, 11:12 PM
think what everyone is saying is that purebred dogs from rep breeders don't end up in rescues nearly as often as dogs from puppy mills/ pet store puppies, BYB's, and the household accidents. There is more care taken to keep these dogs out of shelters. No care is taken with any of the others.
And they're more popular for adoptions. (that's a guess... ;) I don't work in rescue so I don't know for sure.)

Prin
August 27th, 2005, 11:14 PM
Happens all the time that they will not take back from their buyers.Cant tell you how many calls I and my rescue pals get.I always call the breeder and confirm that yes they will not take their own dogs back.

And all CKC reg dogs are chipped or tattooed,and yes many times they wont take their own from shelters either,and I get and rescue pals get those calls too.I sometimes help the shelters trace the tattoo when they are really busy and make those calls to the breeder myself.
Even ones who make you specifically sign a contract saying they want it back?

LL1
August 27th, 2005, 11:18 PM
All the ones I have known had contracts saying you must return them,yes.All of them also had contracts saying they must be spayed or neutered,most were not,all were adults.
Even ones who make you specifically sign a contract saying they want it back?

LL1
August 27th, 2005, 11:19 PM
And I disagree.
I think what everyone is saying is that purebred dogs from rep breeders don't end up in rescues nearly as often as dogs from puppy mills/ pet store puppies, BYB's, and the household accidents. There is more care taken to keep these dogs out of shelters. No care is taken with any of the others.

Prin
August 27th, 2005, 11:20 PM
Really? I see so many more mutts on petfinder than anything else.

StaceyB
August 27th, 2005, 11:21 PM
Most puppies bought from pet stores are by people who were not out looking for a dog.
If BYB's/puppy mills were required by law to health test breeders and vaccinate/fix their puppies before selling. Do you think they would still do it. Household accident puppies produced would have to supply the same for their puppies, vaccinate/fix. I bet you they would be taking precautions with their dogs by getting them fixed and not allowing this to happen.
Maybe this is where the laws need to be placed.

Joey.E.CockersMommy
August 27th, 2005, 11:21 PM
The breed we wanted wasn't in any shelter near us, but there was a few throughout the us and some in eastern Canada. I dont think we would have ever found Joey at the Vernon Spca but thats just his breed, as they are somewhat rare in BC and probably an exception to the rule. A lot of other purebreds end up in our local shelter. I was told by the head of the ecs rescue that they would probably get the dog before the shelter would, this is probably the case with some of the other specific breed rescues I would imagine. Also in our loal shelter almost all the dogs are large dogs, rarely small dogs.

Joey.E.CockersMommy
August 27th, 2005, 11:24 PM
Speaking of household accidents there are some pugs at the new pet store that were apparently accident they are making 900 bucks out these accidents. :mad: Also the last breeder whose contract I saw had a return policy, but she said she had never had a dog returned as of yet.

StaceyB
August 27th, 2005, 11:41 PM
Yes, many shelters will send purebreds into their breed rescue for placement. Saves a space for all the rest. Even ones that are not registered but look to be mainly one breed. Not as many registered dogs which means many are coming in from BYB's/puppy mills(pet stores).
I bet if you asked everyone on this board that purchased their puppy from a pet store if they were looking for a puppy most would say no if they answered honestly. I have asked this of many of my students that purchased their puppy from a pet store why they chose this puppy and the most common answers are, so cute, looked sad, wanted to save puppy. Not many replied, I was looking for a puppy.
I wonder how many more accidents this pug mom will have.

LL1
August 27th, 2005, 11:44 PM
Most shelters only contact rescues when the dogs are going to be euthanized,purebred or mixed.

Joey.E.CockersMommy
August 28th, 2005, 07:47 AM
StaceyB
I wonder how many more accidents this pug mom will have.

I wonder too especially if she got part of the 900 dollar profit its only incentive for her to have more accidents. i would like to think its just a one time thing.