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2nd sick Pom

violet
August 26th, 2005, 03:40 PM
We have an 8 week old pom, this is a new one, he is currently at the vet. The dog appears drunk, shaky head, listless, and high kidney enzymes(says vet) But no one knows what is wrong. Our other dog had the same symptons and has now passed. Please can anyone help?

heidiho
August 26th, 2005, 03:56 PM
Go to a different vet...

violet
August 26th, 2005, 04:11 PM
This is the 3rd vet, they all say that there must be soemthing around the house? Have checked for obvious stuff but still no ideas please?

badger
August 26th, 2005, 04:25 PM
Did you get them from the same breeder? They might already have been sick when you got them. Poor puppy.

cpietra16
August 26th, 2005, 04:29 PM
Some dogs have an adverse effect to a flea product. My friend had a poodle who reacted the same way. I don't know about the enzyme count, though. Just an idea. Good luck. Would the breeder know anything about this and her other dogs?

StaceyB
August 26th, 2005, 06:39 PM
How old was the 1st pup? How long did you have the first pup before this happened? Is this puppy from the same breeder and or same litter or same parents? How long was it between puppies?
If the puppy makes it find another place to keep your puppy until you find the cause. Contact poison control www.aspca.org, there may be a phone # you can call to speak to someone. The symptoms may represent specific poisons.

doggy lover
August 26th, 2005, 07:47 PM
Could he be getting into lead paint, is their moulds in your house, termites? What did your first dog die from, it could be something that it had and that was still surviving in the house certain illness can do this. There can be so many different things, maybe a fourth opinion, it never hurts, someone might think of something that another wouldn't.

Beaglemom
August 26th, 2005, 08:02 PM
Has your puppy been near antifreeze? There are many things around the house that one might not even consider but are poisonous to pets such as certain types of plants. How long after the death of your 1st pup did you get this 2nd pup?

violet
September 1st, 2005, 01:53 PM
We have scoured the house for any and all suggestions. We got the second puppy about 3 months after the first one died. I have taken all suggestions and tried to find something but nadda. Chico seems better but we are taking no chances, I have washed rugs, bedding etc all in Vinegar to get out all possible toxins. I will write again if something happens. Thank you again to all.

StaceyB
September 1st, 2005, 01:57 PM
So how has your puppy been since he was away from your home.

violet
September 1st, 2005, 02:04 PM
:fingerscr As soon as he got to the Vet, he started getting better. So far so good, so I am hoping that the cleaning I did got it.

StaceyB
September 1st, 2005, 02:07 PM
If you can afford it I would contact a poison control in your area to see if they can come to your home and test for chemicals/gases. Go to the website I posted and do the home tour. There may be something there that you may have missed.

justncase
September 1st, 2005, 02:15 PM
Could your dogs have possibly contracted leptospirosis?

Trinitie
September 1st, 2005, 02:38 PM
Please don't scare this person anymore than they already are!

Violet, as mentioned by (almost) all the posters above, it sounds like some sort of poisoning. The dog is ill at home. It goes to the vet and starts to get well. Is it starting to get ill again? If yes, then there's something in your home that is causing a reaction in this poor pup.

Leptospirosis is caused in people and animals by drinking water infected by an animal sick with leptospirosis. It's treatable by antibiotics. Please read this link here (http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic856.htm) to find out more about this (normally) tropical disease.

StaceyB
September 1st, 2005, 02:47 PM
I would guess that a vet would have ruled these diseases out.

justncase
September 1st, 2005, 03:08 PM
Please don't scare this person anymore than they already are!.

O.K. Now I'm puzzled . so if someone asks " what do you think the problem is, the vets are stumped".....don't say what it could possibly be in case it would " scare" them? Doesn't that limit alot what could be suggested as a possibility? And what if one of those possibilities just happens to be the cause yet it was never mentioned? Isn't the OP asking for possible causes and the more each one can be ruled out the nearer one gets to the actual cause? But to not mention a possibility at all, what is of benefit in that and how can one decide, oh, don't mention that, that might scare them?

justncase
September 1st, 2005, 03:28 PM
What is leptospirosis?

Leptospirosis is a bacterial disease that affects humans and animals. It is caused by bacteria of the genus Leptospira. In humans it causes a wide range of symptoms, and some infected persons may have no symptoms at all. Symptoms of leptospirosis include high fever, severe headache, chills, muscle aches, and vomiting, and may include jaundice (yellow skin and eyes), red eyes, abdominal pain, diarrhea, or a rash. If the disease is not treated, the patient could develop kidney damage, meningitis (inflammation of the membrane around the brain and spinal cord), liver failure, and respiratory distress. In rare cases death occurs.

Many of these symptoms can be mistaken for other diseases. Leptospirosis is confirmed by laboratory testing of a blood or urine sample.
Outbreaks of leptospirosis are usually caused by exposure to water contaminated with the urine of infected animals. Many different kinds of animals carry the bacterium; they may become sick but sometimes have no symptoms. Leptospira organisms have been found in cattle, pigs, horses, dogs, rodents, and wild animals.
Illness usually begins abruptly with fever and other symptoms. Leptospirosis may occur in two phases; after the first phase, with fever, chills, headache, muscle aches, vomiting, or diarrhea,.. ... If a second phase occurs, it is more severe (with) kidney or liver failure or meningitis.

Leptospirosis is treated with antibiotics, such as doxycycline or penicillin, which should be given early in the course of the disease. Intravenous antibiotics may be required

Trinitie
September 1st, 2005, 03:34 PM
I understand what the disease is, and I posted a link for the OP. Something you did not do. If you're trying to scare someone without the skills necessary to research diseases, just mentioning a disease name, without going into ANY sort of detail, is a sure fire way to do it.

Do NOT treat me like I do not know what I'm talking about. I clarified your post, something you should have done in the first place!

Scaring people is NOT what we're here for. If you want to say that the dog may have that disease, then fine - but provide more information.

justncase
September 1st, 2005, 05:24 PM
I understand what the disease is, and I posted a link for the OP. Something you did not do. If you're trying to scare someone without the skills necessary to research diseases, just mentioning a disease name, without going into ANY sort of detail, is a sure fire way to do it.

Do NOT treat me like I do not know what I'm talking about. I clarified your post, something you should have done in the first place!

Scaring people is NOT what we're here for. If you want to say that the dog may have that disease, then fine - but provide more information.


Provide more information? I think I just did. Actually, I'm trying to present possibilities. Is the possibility of leptospirosis scary? Is possible poisoning in the home scary? Both are, yet one is only allowed to be mentioned. Who's to be the judge of what is termed ' scary"? It wouldn't really have mattered if I had just mentioned the disease name or added a link . It seems I wasn't to have mentioned it at all. If any mention of any disease is termed too " scary" then the only choice left is not to mention it then. And if that's the case then why bother to ask at all? Not knowing doesn't automatically make the disease an impossibility. It just makes it a suppressed possibility. The thing about the Internet is that information is just a click away. So are definitions. Enter the word " leptospirosis" under any search engine and all the info needed comes up. See if it fits the symptoms or not. That's not possible if there's no word to research. No word to research because it's too scary to mention.

Coldwetnose
September 1st, 2005, 09:14 PM
Have you gone through the plants in your home? Many plants are toxic and if he is eating any of them he could get very sick.

StaceyB
September 1st, 2005, 09:32 PM
The possibility of two young puppies in the same home 3 months apart having the same unknown virus is very slim. It sounds more like a poison but all should be ruled out. OP what has your 1st & 2nd puppies been tested for.

justncase
September 1st, 2005, 09:44 PM
Violet, maybe this site can help you go through the list of product types you may be using in your home and the symptoms of toxicity associated with them .

www.elysiandream.com/toxicity.htm

mona_b
September 1st, 2005, 09:56 PM
Ummmm,has this pup been tested for Parvo?

Remember,if you have a dog with parvo in the house,you shouldn't have another for at least a year.

Where did this pup come from?

Was it from the same breeder as the first one?

White Wolf
September 1st, 2005, 10:20 PM
What is leptospirosis?

Leptospirosis is a bacterial disease that affects humans and animals. It is caused by bacteria of the genus Leptospira. In humans it causes a wide range of symptoms, and some infected persons may have no symptoms at all. Symptoms of leptospirosis include high fever, severe headache, chills, muscle aches, and vomiting, and may include jaundice (yellow skin and eyes), red eyes, abdominal pain, diarrhea, or a rash. If the disease is not treated, the patient could develop kidney damage, meningitis (inflammation of the membrane around the brain and spinal cord), liver failure, and respiratory distress. In rare cases death occurs.

Many of these symptoms can be mistaken for other diseases. Leptospirosis is confirmed by laboratory testing of a blood or urine sample.
Outbreaks of leptospirosis are usually caused by exposure to water contaminated with the urine of infected animals. Many different kinds of animals carry the bacterium; they may become sick but sometimes have no symptoms. Leptospira organisms have been found in cattle, pigs, horses, dogs, rodents, and wild animals.
Illness usually begins abruptly with fever and other symptoms. Leptospirosis may occur in two phases; after the first phase, with fever, chills, headache, muscle aches, vomiting, or diarrhea,.. ... If a second phase occurs, it is more severe (with) kidney or liver failure or meningitis.

Leptospirosis is treated with antibiotics, such as doxycycline or penicillin, which should be given early in the course of the disease. Intravenous antibiotics may be required
Is there a reference site for this or are these your own words? If there is a reference site, or any other reference, please post it.

justncase
September 2nd, 2005, 09:24 AM
Is there a reference site for this or are these your own words? If there is a reference site, or any other reference, please post it.


Here you go,

www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo/leptospirosis_g.htm


And several more,

www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo/leptospirosis_g_pet.htm

www.labbies.com/lepto.htm

www.state.sd.us/doh/Pubs/lepto.htm

www.astdhpphe.org/infect/lepto.html

www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic856.htm

Trinitie
September 2nd, 2005, 10:21 AM
To the OP: I surely hope your little pup is doing well, and that you've been able to find out the root cause of the apparent poisioning.

justncase: You posted the name of a disease, and then posted the definition 45 minutes later, while I posted the definition (with link) 20 minutes after your post.
You are indeed walking a fine line with me. For future reference - if you choose to post a disease name, to someone trying to figure out if their poor pup is dying or not, then IMMEDIATELY post the definition, and possible treatments, of that disease.

My only desire is that the person with the sick pup is able to find a cure for the poor creature.

justncase
September 2nd, 2005, 10:44 AM
To the OP: I surely hope your little pup is doing well, and that you've been able to find out the root cause of the apparent poisioning.

justncase: You posted the name of a disease, and then posted the definition 45 minutes later, while I posted the definition (with link) 20 minutes after your post.
You are indeed walking a fine line with me. For future reference - if you choose to post a disease name, to someone trying to figure out if their poor pup is dying or not, then IMMEDIATELY post the definition, and possible treatments, of that disease.

My only desire is that the person with the sick pup is able to find a cure for the poor creature.


Was it the same link? Isn't extra information helpful? What does it matter whether it was posted before or after- it's information. If, as you say, your only desire is to " find a cure for the poor creature" then I hope you will allow members to post what they think it might be, whether it is or not, and not be limited because it might be scaring them. Disease is scary, and to be limited in stating possibilities because of how they might be taken, is equally as scary. Parvo is scary too. The member who posted it did not have to provide any link when it was suggested as I was reprimanded for not doing when I mentioned leptospirosis.

Trinitie
September 2nd, 2005, 10:53 AM
Parvo is a highly known disease, and immunization against it is routine. The likelihood that the vet checked for Parvo is probably very high.

Leptospirosis is not generally known and is most likely not something that the OP would have known about. The likelihood that the vet would have checked for this is quite slim.

If you provide a link to a obscure disease, then this whole conversation could have been avoided.

StaceyB
September 2nd, 2005, 11:01 AM
Lepto vaccines are fairly standard here. This is one of the vaccinations I check for. About 3 yrs ago not so many were done but the last two years almost all of my students have been vaccinated against it.

Trinitie
September 2nd, 2005, 11:08 AM
They are not standard here, that I'm aware. But, as I'm mentioning in a PM, leptospirosis is caused by water becoming contaminated by the urine of an infected animal. As this poor pup is a new arrival, 3 months after the passing of the last beloved pet, the likelihood that water has stood for 3 months is a probability of slim to none. Evaporation or discarding would have happended by now. If the water source is outdoors, then rain would have washed it away.

But that's neither here nor there. I don't have a problem with mentioning the disease. My issue is mentioning a disease that most people have not heard of before and not providing timely information/definitions of the disease.

White Wolf
September 2nd, 2005, 12:01 PM
Here you go,

www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo/leptospirosis_g.htm


And several more,

www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo/leptospirosis_g_pet.htm

www.labbies.com/lepto.htm

www.state.sd.us/doh/Pubs/lepto.htm

www.astdhpphe.org/infect/lepto.html

www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic856.htm
Thank you. For future reference, when you copy and paste text, word for word, that you did not write, please reference it. That way other members can test its validity for themselves, and get all the information there is from the link. :)

justncase
September 2nd, 2005, 02:51 PM
Thank you. For future reference, when you copy and paste text, word for word, that you did not write, please reference it. That way other members can test its validity for themselves, and get all the information there is from the link. :)


I didn't know that. Thank-you for your considerate clarification.

Melinda
September 14th, 2005, 10:36 AM
Lepto vaccines are fairly standard here. This is one of the vaccinations I check for. About 3 yrs ago not so many were done but the last two years almost all of my students have been vaccinated against it.

Stacey B, if your pet or any of your students pets were vaccinated against Leptospirosis more than 3 yrs ago, and are canadians, PLEASE!!!! have it redone!!!! The vaccine normally given up until 2-3 yrs ago was made in the states, there are only 5 strains of lepto in the states, 6 in canada, the 6th one was thought to be wiped out decades ago, it's back, please please take my word for it. 3 cases in 2004 in Eastern Ontario, my beautiful angel of a dog being one of them, they have now manufactured a new vaccine in Canada for the canadian strains,such wonderful news, it's too late for my Daisy though, she succummed to the disease in may of this year. unless a vet does a blood test looking for it, by the time you realize something is wrong with your dog, it's too late, vital organs have been attacked.