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Huge dilema ( at least for me)

Rottielover
August 24th, 2005, 08:00 AM
Hi all you wise pet.ca people. I am hoping for some honest insight. Harley is now very close to 11 months old, and has been shown only once. My BF and I are split up, and he is all mine.....Now my dilema is that I have him scheduled to be neutered on sept 1. I am honestly having major 2nd thoughts, based on the fact I know he could excell in the show ring as well as OB if I got off my butt. It is something I found intriguing to watch, and now really want to partsipate in.
I do not know how many times he could go in a ring, based on I am a soon to be single parent. But if I neuter him, I really think I may regret it.
What are your takes on this situation. I will not be using him to stud. Already said no to many who have asked. Do you think I will have major regrets neutering him if I really would like to try confromation.
Oh ya went to the vet yesterday, and the cysts are no more than huge pimples that will go away with ointment

Beaglemom
August 24th, 2005, 08:27 AM
Glad to hear that the cysts turned out to be nothing.

I too want to show a dog in conformation some day for fun, not for breeding purposes. Once my future dog is finished his show career, I will have him neutured.

If showing your dog is something that you really want to do and Harley has potential, than I say don't neuter him until after his conformation show career is done, once he obtains his Championship title (unless you are going to campaign him).

As for obedience, I was under the impression that spayed and neutered dogs could compete in trials, I may be wrong though.

StaceyB
August 24th, 2005, 08:38 AM
Check your area for shows in the next 6 months. Then decide which ones you think you could go to. This will help you decide if you would even go to them.

Rottielover
August 24th, 2005, 09:00 AM
I will be talking to a few people for handling classes, the show he did was a seiger show, where everything is natural. He has been to a few handling classes at 7 months old. Not since. So I think I will go there, then decide. In montreal they have a huge dog show united kennel club in NOV.

StaceyB
August 24th, 2005, 09:05 AM
It sounds like you really do want to show him so I would postpone the neuter for now.

Rottielover
August 24th, 2005, 09:07 AM
If my daughter was older, or daddy was in the picture, he would have been almost finished. But it is really hard with a 17 month old. Can not take her to the shows

doggy lover
August 24th, 2005, 09:39 AM
Do you really have time for this, maybe it is something to look into at a later time in your life, if you are not going to show him I'd have it done. Maybe it is something to look into for your next dog?

mona_b
August 24th, 2005, 09:26 PM
Do you really have time for this, maybe it is something to look into at a later time in your life, if you are not going to show him I'd have it done. Maybe it is something to look into for your next dog?

I have to agree with this.

You definately need the time(and money) to show.I know a couple of friends who show/shown their dogs.And it is time consuming.The gas to travel,this could be every weekend,and across town.And the fees to enter him.And the cost of a Hotel

I agree with having him done now.Then think about it later down the road with your next one.

Heck,wait till your daughter is older and she can get into Junior Handler. :)

My nephew was a junior handler in his 4H Club.He used his Border Collie.

And by the way,you can do Obedience if your dog is altered.

Rottielover
August 25th, 2005, 07:44 AM
I was up most of the night last night, loads of time to think. And what I have decided was OB we will continue with. So he will be neutered on the 1st of Sept. I will still be young enough, when my daughter is a bit older, to start with confromation. Unfortunetly, It will not be with Harley.
But I never planned on breeding him anyways, so........with the next one

doggy lover
August 25th, 2005, 08:30 AM
I think you made a good choice and although we don't want to think about it we know our pets lives are numbered, but there is always room for another.

nymph
August 25th, 2005, 11:10 AM
Not sure what the dilemma is to be honest. You are not going to breed him regardless of whether he's neutered or not, so exactly what could be wrong if you neuter him later? :confused:

dogs-n-me
August 25th, 2005, 11:36 AM
The sad thing really is altered dogs cannot be shown. That is truly unfortunate. As for not breeding him, that is good, but there is always a way accidents happen. You might want to think about how much time and energy it takes to get a dog ready for show, the travelling to different shows, etc etc, and you as a single mom might find it too much. I would neuter

Rottielover
August 25th, 2005, 11:50 AM
I have been to many shows with him. But he has only shown in one. Toronto seiger show. VSP. My deliema is, I know I really want to do confromation. I do..I do. But will I have the time to do it. Then what happens if 6 months down the line I do have time, will I really regret the neuter. But As I said before. I will neuter Harley, and wait to do confromation on my next dog, when Kayla is older to teach her to juniour handle.

Beaglemom
August 25th, 2005, 12:02 PM
I think that you made a very responsible decision. I just have one question that hasn't come up yet. Have you discussed this with your breeder? If your breeder sold you Harley on the condition that he be shown, it could cause you problems.

I think that waiting is wise. Having a baby and showing your own dog all by yourself is going to be very tough. You will have to have a babysitter every show day. Waiting until Kayla is old enough to help out is a great idea.

For the time being, you could do the obedience trials. How about other fun activities with Harley like agility? There are alot of activities that you can do with Harley even with him being neutered.

Rottielover
August 25th, 2005, 12:10 PM
My breeder and I are very close, she sees how much he means to my little family. She was with me when I showed him at the seiger, She has been one of my mentors, and I appreciate that.
When I purchased Harley, orginally he was just a pet to me. But he was her pick male. So we made an aggrement that I would try confromation with him to see if he and I enjoyed it. Needless to say she knows he could excell if we continued. But with her knowing my scenerio of BF leaving, and no person to watch the baby, she agreed to make a neuter contract.
I have also informed her that I will be doing his CGN, and HIC, and will be giving her the certs. Just so if anyone asks, she has proof of what she likes to do with her dogs. I do not mind.
She has been there for me every step of the way, and I respect her alot. She proved to me what a real COE breeder is like.
She just wants to make things as easy on us as possible so Harley can enjoy a full long life with us. Kayla and I. She was even willing to take him in for a month while we settle. I told her ty but no ty. I will need my cuddles every night

Lucky Rescue
August 25th, 2005, 12:19 PM
Showing a dog to a championship (assuming Harley ever makes it that far) involves a lot of time, training, money and travel. Of course, if he hasn't been tested and cleared of any and all genetic defects common to the breed, that must be done too, although it is expensive. And if you cannot do the necessary travelling, you'll have to hire someone to take Harley and show him. But say you can somehow do all this as a single parent and Harley does achieve a championship.

After he is championed, if you want to breed him, of course you would only want to stud him to a bitch who has all the qualifications necessary to make a perfect match and improve the line and who is also a champion. This requires a good knowledge of genetics, and what the perfect specimen of the breed is - conformationally, temperamentally, and health-wise. Also, the perfect bitch may be on the other side of the country and you would have to have her shipped to you, or you would have to send semen to her.

Also, I"m sure you know that many biting incidents involve intact male dogs, so unless you are 100% sure you can and will do all of the above, I would have Harley neutered and enjoy him for the wonderful pet and companion he is!:)

There are lots of fun activities for neutered dogs. Agility, obedience, tracking, carting, herding etc!

Rottielover
August 25th, 2005, 12:29 PM
AS I SAID he would never be bred......Never, too many unwanted rotties out there. could not ever imagine a pup of his out there homeless. The confromation is just for fun. Not to start a kennel. He is getting his prelims done anyways. And if I was to continue showing him, breeder already stated she pays for the OFA. Anyways. OB is what he really enjoys, it was more for me to go and meet new people with the same interest.
LR I know he can do it. He has already had an amazing critiq from a german judge, from germany. I so much prefer the seiger shows over the CKC anyday. Seiger shows the dogs go in natural.
Anyways one day...one day....Until then, he will be my little( ok not so little) baby. and the twinkle in my daughters eye

Beaglemom
August 25th, 2005, 12:40 PM
Your breeder sounds like a very good person. It is nice that she is supporting you in your decision and understands what you are going through.

If you don't think you will have the time, money or energy to show Harley, then neutering him is the best way to go. It is definitely better for him. Just remember all the other activities that are open to neutered/spayed dogs. They are a lot of fun for both owner/handler and dog. In the meantime, he can be your loyal friend, guardian and companion.

LL1
August 27th, 2005, 09:12 PM
Showing a dog without breeding him actually makes no sense.You gave up your other dog in part due to financial issues and time,at least you posted that,showing takes a lot of money and time which you have posted you do not have.I would neuter your dog.

Prin
August 27th, 2005, 09:14 PM
Aren't there people who do it for fun? I asked this in a previous thread because I didn't know that some people show for fun and not for breeding.

LL1
August 27th, 2005, 09:23 PM
Not much point in that.It is to determine the best of the breed,for breeding,I wouldnt do it if not for breeding.I would do the other fun things.Agility,flyball,obedience etc.

StaceyB
August 28th, 2005, 01:30 AM
Many just want to see how there dog measures up against the standard, even those who do not intend to breed. Nothing wrong with any of the fun stuff either.

LL1
August 28th, 2005, 04:51 PM
The breeder should be able to tell them that.

StaceyB
August 28th, 2005, 05:39 PM
If someone wants to show their dog regardless of whether they are going to breed should be up to them. It isn't pointless, it is time spent with their dog, no different from agility, obedience or any other.

LL1
August 28th, 2005, 10:08 PM
It is done to evaluate breeding stock.Same reason why they do not allow spayed or neutered dogs,there is no point to it.

Prin
August 28th, 2005, 10:41 PM
How about for fun?

StaceyB
August 28th, 2005, 10:49 PM
Yes for fun

Prin
August 28th, 2005, 10:55 PM
Here's a post where Mona explained to me why people would show without breeding (I hope you don't mind, Mona. If you do I'll remove it) : http://www.pets.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=135219&postcount=46
From this thread: http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=15037

LL1
August 28th, 2005, 11:33 PM
I cant imagine anyone doing that for "fun",but to each their own.

Prin
August 28th, 2005, 11:47 PM
I can't imagine people skydiving or bungee jumping for fun, but yes, to each their own. :D

melanie
August 29th, 2005, 02:00 AM
oh poor puppy, now why does it matter to the judges if he has his nackers or not, poor little darlin, really isnt that some form of doggy descrimination??? :o :D isnt it no ones bizzo what he has? now thats not a very modern way of thinking is it, man dog shows need to catch up!!!

gee sounds to me like dog showing assest really need to be thought about?

i think they should have a super smart dog section, or 'jsut a really nice dog' section, like say some really ugly little thing but he/she is jsut relly lovely, now why cant we have comps like that?? now that i would go to see....

hey how about a 'my owners a nutter, ive lost me nackers so i cant go in the fancy shows, AND i cant find my friggin tennis ball but im still being patient and sorta nice and have not started more than 3 fights here today since leaving the car park ' entry round???

tut tut tut poor poor poor puppies :eek:

mona_b
August 29th, 2005, 06:22 AM
I don't mind at all Prin...... :)

It's not just to evaluate breeding stalk.It's how your dog measures up to the breed standard.Showing can be fun.It's the competing aspect of it.It's compairing your dog against others.It's really no different in SchH,Obedience,Agility,flyball or any other sport.These too are to see who is the best of all bests.

As for the ones I mentioned in the link Prin provided,they showed for fun.They didn't/don't want to breed.Which is fine by me.Cash just got pointed to Ch.So when George decides to stop showing him,he will be neutered.

BMDLuver
August 29th, 2005, 07:23 AM
Not to hijack the thread but I'm still a bit confused. If you have a male puppy and would like to show him... what can you show him in, meaning categories that do not require him to be intact? Also, if he's not CKC reg'd but you would like to show him, is there a way to register him anyways? There is with horses but I'm new to the dog showing scene.

Sorry Rottielover, don't mean to take over, just trying to figure this all out.

Rottielover
August 29th, 2005, 07:44 AM
If a dog is not reg with Canadian kennel club in canada, they can not be shown, same as AKC american. Once neutered he can compete in everything except Confromation. LL1 I do do this for fun, something I have always wanted to do....Financially the breeder helps me out....It was the time concern........Anyways...as of sept 1, his nuts are gone......I will compete in confromation, once kayla is older...I am still young enough to do it

LL1
August 29th, 2005, 08:40 AM
There is a link here Prin from the AKC to read more about why dogs are shown in conformation:

http://www.akc.org/events/conformation/beginners.cfm

Beaglemom
August 29th, 2005, 09:19 AM
Conformation shows were intended to be used as a way to judge your dog according to the breed standard as a means to evaluate your dog's quality. Yes they are used to determine breeding stock and to make sure that the breed stays as true to the standard as possible. BUT, many people do it for the sheer enjoyment of it. It is not all about how good your dog is and will be for breeding. Just ask any owner-handler who shows there dog but doesn't intend to breed. It is for the competitive nature of the sport, just like any other sport. Why play recreational baseball, soccer, football, etc. if you never intend to play professionally? Because it is fun.

In the future I would like to show a dog. We have even decided on what breed. I will also compete in agility, lure coursing and probably obedience. I don't intend to breed my dog, ever, but will do these for the sport of it. Once my dog has his championship title, he will be neutered and then we will do the other activities. It is a great way to spend time with your dog and to increase the bond.

Rottielover
August 29th, 2005, 09:24 AM
Thank you beaglemom. That is exactly the way I feel. It is also a great place to meet people with the same passions as yourself. Great learning expierences. And a great way to have fun.....

Beaglemom
August 29th, 2005, 09:40 AM
Thank you beaglemom. That is exactly the way I feel. It is also a great place to meet people with the same passions as yourself. Great learning expierences. And a great way to have fun.....
Your welcome! I can't wait to join in all the doggie activities that are available out there and meet other dog enthusiasts such as ourselves.

mona_b
August 30th, 2005, 06:14 AM
Exactly Beaglemom. :thumbs up

If you have a male puppy and would like to show him... what can you show him in, meaning categories that do not require him to be intact? Also, if he's not CKC reg'd but you would like to show him, is there a way to register him anyways?

There are many catagories you can have then compete in.
Obedience
Agility
Beagling(for Beagles and Bassets)
Earthdog(Terriers and Dachsunds)
Drafting
Flyball
Herding
SchH
Retriever Trials

If the pup is not CKC registered,then no you can't register him/her.Both parents must be registered for pups to be registered.

My dog is neutered.He has been titled in SchH III.But he went throught that with my brother.

As for Conformation,you really need to have the time and money for this.The costs do add up.There can be a show in your area one weekend,then clear across town for another weekend.Then you have to find a Hotel(a head of time)allowing dogs.And if your dog has any lumps,bumps or scratches,you better hope that they are gone by the time you show,or go to your next show.

BMDLuver
August 30th, 2005, 06:20 AM
Thanks Mona B. I did confirmation for years with weanling foals in the QH ring and the stress is too great for me. I thought of obedience and maybe carting or herding.. but am not sure if he would be able to compete, as in are their clubs n such that do not require CKC reg'd dogs to compete? It's just for something fun to do with him.. we aren't going for the gold, lol. :D

mona_b
August 30th, 2005, 06:27 AM
OHHH I just LOVE horses. :D

I know in flyball and agility they don't have to be registered.They have many mixed breeds competeing.

I will find out for you about the clubs and if they have to be Reg'd. :)

doggy lover
August 30th, 2005, 06:28 AM
A friend of mine that use to breed dogs/show dogs, it was crazy. With showing getting up early and bathing/grooming all the hours sent waiting to go in the ring. With puppies all the hours and $$$$$$$$$$ spent on them, lost litters, sick pups, C-sections on her bulldogs and so on. She also had three boys who I ended up watching while she was showing. After a while she found it to much and used a handler but that was more expensive. When her husband took a heart attack in his 40's she gave it all up as she had to return to work to help out around the house, so it proves that she wasn't making a big profit or she would have just bred more.

BMDLuver
August 30th, 2005, 06:48 AM
OHHH I just LOVE horses. :D

I know in flyball and agility they don't have to be registered.They have many mixed breeds competeing.

I will find out for you about the clubs and if they have to be Reg'd. :)
Thanks Mona B! I love horses and would do horse rescue in a heartbeat if I still had my farm. Maybe that's why I do xlarge breeds... kind of as close to a horse as I'm going to get for a while.

doggy lover
August 30th, 2005, 07:00 AM
Thats funny BMD lover, people use to call my last dog Travis a small pony. He was only 120lbs. I laugh when people say that Tucker is a big boy, he is about half the size of Travis, they don't know what they are talking about. Big dogs rule.

LL1
August 30th, 2005, 08:46 AM
You can do everything except for conformation.
Thanks Mona B. I did confirmation for years with weanling foals in the QH ring and the stress is too great for me. I thought of obedience and maybe carting or herding.. but am not sure if he would be able to compete, as in are their clubs n such that do not require CKC reg'd dogs to compete? It's just for something fun to do with him.. we aren't going for the gold, lol. :D

BMDLuver
August 30th, 2005, 08:50 AM
You can do everything except for conformation.
So if I understand correctly then, I can do all the stuff within a breed specific or all breed club without CKC registration? :o

Rottielover
August 30th, 2005, 09:04 AM
I believe you need what they call an ILP number.

BMDLuver
August 30th, 2005, 09:32 AM
I believe you need what they call an ILP number.
ILP number is AKC only I think? I don't see a CKC equivalent listed anywhere.