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Alert:City eyes tighter leash on pit bulls LONDON ON!!!

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Georgiapeaches
August 22nd, 2005, 01:50 AM
The provincial Law is not enough????
My own City! TIME TO MOVE!!!The University of Western Ontario can kiss my tuition money GOODBYE!!!!
I do not know if this is a public meeting, but either way I am attending city hall. I hope anyone in London/surrounding areas will do the same!

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/LondonFreePress/News/2005/08/22/1182857-sun.html

City eyes tighter leash on pit bulls

The proposed bylaw could make it prohibitive for people to keep their dogs, one critic says.
JOE BELANGER, Free Press City Hall Reporter

London pit bull owners would pay a premium and face tough restrictions under a proposed city bylaw.

But the president of the London Dog Owners Association says the bylaw will only force pit bull owners to get rid of their pets.

"I think it's all garbage," Beth Saylor said.

"All they're doing is making it tougher for people to keep their (pit bulls) and to get rid of them, because the average person won't be able to afford all this."

Although pit bulls are banned in Ontario as of Aug. 29, people who have them will be allowed to keep their pets, provided they are sterilized, leashed and muzzled.

However, in London the proposed Pit Bull Dog Licensing bylaw headed to city council's environment and transportation committee tonight would also require pit bull owners to pay more for a licence, microchip their dogs and face a $500 fine for most violations.

Pit bull owners who don't licence their dogs by year-end risk having them destroyed.

"People can always choose a different breed for a pet," Coun. Fred Tranquilli, chairperson of the committee, said yesterday.

"I would suggest the cost of licensing this breed is more reflective of the resources consumed by the breed and their owners."

Under the proposed bylaw, pit bull owners would have to:

- Pay a licence fee of $130 annually, compared to the current $25.

- Pay $25 for a warning sign at the entrance to their property.

- Pay a first-time administration fee of $25.

- Provide proof their pit bull is microchipped and sterilized.

- Purchase $1 million in liability insurance.

Owners of show dogs must apply for an exemption.

"Bite victims need to be able to access compensation, so the insurance requirement is important," Tranquilli said.

The bylaw could run into opposition.

"Licensing doesn't solve anything. It's just a cash grab," Saylor said.

Committee member Controller Gord Hume defended the new bylaw, but empa-thized with dog owners.

"The provincial legislation very clearly says pit bulls are not welcome in Ontario."

Microchipping is necessary so, if something happens, the dog owner can be identified, he said. The extra licensing revenue is needed because the system is going to cost more to administer, Hume added.

Attorney General Michael Bryant's controversial bill was passed in the legislature in March. The legislation amends the Dog Owners' Liability Act and provides protection from all dangerous dogs through increased fines of up to $10,000 and possible jail terms for their owners.

Pit bulls born after Nov. 26 will have to find a home outside the province or be put down.

The legislation was opposed by numerous animal groups that argued breed-specific bans are unfair and useless. They called for legislation that would target irresponsible owners and dangerous dogs, no matter what the breed.

The ban applies to the pit bull terrier, Staffordshire bull terrier, American Staffordshire terrier, American pit bull terrier or dogs that are similar in appearance and physical characteristics.

Several municipalities in North America, as well as some countries, have banned pit bulls.





Copyright The London Free Press

lezzpezz
August 22nd, 2005, 07:17 AM
Well good morning GeorgiaPeaches! Beth, as mentioned in the article, is the pres. of the group I belong to, London Dog Owners' Association. This article was my morning eye opener! :eek:

I attended the first meeting about all of this quite awhile ago, and was waiting for Beth to bring me up to speed.....the article just did that. It doesn't state the meeting is open to the public, but I'll find out for ya. I work tonight, so cannot attend. Usually the meetings start at 4 p.m. and the press will be all over this one, so even if the public is not allowed in, the press will be interested in interviewing the public that are outside of the meeting room. I'll email back when I hear from Beth.....

lezzpezz
August 22nd, 2005, 08:04 AM
Here's the reply from Beth:

Hi there,

The meeting starts at 4:00pm but most of our our stuff
does not happen until 7:00pm according to the agenda,
but I don't trust that. I plan on getting their at
4:00pm or just afew minutes after.

Yes, this is open to the public.

GeorgiaP, if you go,just ask at the info desk which room the ETC meeting is held in. They will direct you. You go girl! Beth has dark red hair, cut in a shag style. By all means, introduce yourself! She will be sitting at the committee table, I would think, as she is on a task force. She may, however, be in the audience. Good Luck!

Georgiapeaches
August 22nd, 2005, 08:48 AM
Thank you for the info! I could not sleep a lot last night after I read the article, reason why I posted so late :o

The last meeting on this last fall that was open to public participation started at 4 pm, but the gallery was full by 3:45. So, just to be sure I will go a bit early.

I'm so sad about this. Starting to think of places to move already :mad:

lezzpezz
August 22nd, 2005, 10:36 AM
tune into AM 980....they have been discussing this issue live on air and you can call in. They have introduced another topic, (bussing kids to school, but some calls still coming in re: pb's

I just printed article and took it over to my neighbour with a pit bull cross. She is saying that she will not pay for liscencing, will not register her dogs, and will not let a soul onto her property and let them touch her pets. Oh boy....it's gonna get really ugly for lots of folks out there, especially here in London. According to some rumblings, there is going to be more staff added to enforce such bylaws. Apparently, City of London employees will be recieving exclusive training on this new PB nonsense. This new pb stuff for London seems like just another way to make $$ for the coffers.

I find it ironic that they are punishing innocent dog owners for not only owning pit bulls and like types of dogs, but have the gaul to try and extract the money needed to enforce these very laws against these dog owners, from these same dog owners! I personally wouldn't give them one red cent! Try and make me...... :mad:

bluntman
August 22nd, 2005, 11:49 AM
Just when you think things can't get any worse, another bone headed, ignorante politician, figures out a way to make things worse for dog owners. They must have learned from Kichener-Waterloo that by-laws are allmost imposible for the average person to fight, and since there is no court involed, they do not have to prove a thing, and they can legally terrorize any one they wish, and extort money from them at the same time. It's really sad to hear, because London was a nice place to live and visit untill now.

Georgiapeaches
August 22nd, 2005, 11:59 AM
This is very sad :sad:

Lezzer, what was said on 980? I missed it. Were a majority for or against this proposed bylaw?

If you look at the details of the proposed bylaw it is awful. Noone who lives outside of London will be able to come into London with their grandfathered pitbulls, unless for a dog event recognized by the DOLA. They are proposing not allowing pitbulls to live in multiple dwellings. Plus ofcourse, the insurance and higher licensing/administration fees.

I know a few people personally that will be attending today.

lezzpezz
August 22nd, 2005, 12:25 PM
You hit the nail on the head Bluntman.....I actually hate this city and so does my hubby. We moved here only for the sake of work and actually met here, drowning our sorrows over how much we miss small town life. The goal is to retire out in the boondocks far from London and open a kennel!! :D Until then, I am doing what I can to educate and help dog owners here in London. Didn't have any idea when I signed on to the group that there would be the likes of M. Bryant in the wings!! Oh well, gives me something to do!! :p

GeorgiaP, I missed most of the AM 980 broadcast, so I didn't hear anything for or against the pb issue. I just guessed that that station may be airing this topic and they were! I came in at the very end and they had moved on to the next topic. Sorry I didn't catch it in time :(

I'm sure the galley will be absolutely packed at City Hall tonight. I hate to say I think it's a done deal....just my gut feeling. Last time, they at least said they would wait until MBryant and his cronies decided what they were gonna do and they did listen to many many concerned dog owners. Only one fella was all for the extra measures.....about 80 were against :highfive: so perhaps tonight's crowd will have the same gift of persuasion needed to shelve this one. Good luck and speak up!! This is the one chance you get!! :fingerscr

Copper'sMom
August 22nd, 2005, 12:29 PM
Coun. Fred Tranquilli, chairperson of the committee
This donkey used to be a news reporter for London news station. Hmmm.........news reporter to politician?? I guess the jobs are about the same considering both jobs don't listen to each side of the story. He is as uptight as Michael Bryant is.
They don't care if people give up their Pit Bulls and these dogs are then pts. This is what they want - to get rid of Pit bulls for good! :mad: :mad: It's like being in grade school, because of one kid that acts out in class, the whole class needs to be punished. :mad:

lezzpezz
August 22nd, 2005, 12:38 PM
The one good thing Freddy boy did was to let many of us in to the last city hall meeting, as we were shut out 'cause it filled early with an angry mob. Well, we were the other half of the angry mob! I guess it was likely a case of making himself look good to voters, but it is quite a funny thing that a reporter becomes a politician. Still a donkey, as you have said :o

gdamadg
August 22nd, 2005, 12:45 PM
Goodluck to all that live in London. :fingerscr

lezzpezz
August 22nd, 2005, 12:57 PM
I'm sure that between GeorgiaPeach and myself, we can most certainly keep you up to speed on what happens tonight at the meeting. Keep checking in here as the evening progresses to see if either one of us can report anything. Apparently, this is on the agenda for 7 p.m., but likely will hit the table sooner, according to my sources. oh boy.....are you in to reporting back here, GeorgiaP?

Georgiapeaches
August 22nd, 2005, 01:04 PM
The one good thing Freddy boy did was to let many of us in to the last city hall meeting, as we were shut out 'cause it filled early with an angry mob. Well, we were the other half of the angry mob! I guess it was likely a case of making himself look good to voters, but it is quite a funny thing that a reporter becomes a politician. Still a donkey, as you have said :o

Hey, I was at that meeting, and was also shut out. We were quite upset but finally they allowed us in, after some peruasion and chaos :angel: . Funny how they could use Centennial Hall for the Taxi licensing issue and RMC for a meeting on the City dump issue, but not for the bsl issue!
I did not speak at the meeting, I really wanted to but I am pretty shy. If they make an exception tonight or any other time in the future, I WILL be heard!
With everything that has happened around here in the last 6 years, none of the council members or mayor in this city impress me, dirty pranks, unable to keep city managers, etc. :evil:

Georgiapeaches
August 22nd, 2005, 01:05 PM
Ofcourse I will post after I return from the meeting at city hall. I will sum up what happened and keep everyone up to date! :)

lezzpezz
August 22nd, 2005, 01:14 PM
Ironically, I was out in the hall with you, unable to get in until we raised a stink! I was wearing my "PUNISH THE DEED, NOT THE BREED" sweatshirt. Does that ring a bell?? I actually presented my viewpoint to the committee, (got brave, I guess :o ) . In all likelihood, you and I have met already!

Thanks for keeping us up to date after the meeting tonight. I have to work until 9 p.m. or I'd be there with bells on!! :p

lezzpezz
August 22nd, 2005, 01:47 PM
I work at the local library and field reference calls. A co-worker just took a call from a lady, Well, ironically enough, the lady just called wanting the phone # to city hall, as they just sent her a letter re: her pit bull. I don't know the nature of the letter, but from what my co-worker says, the lady is pizzed! 'cause her dog is 14 yrs old and hardly moves :eek:

The witchhunt has begun in London. I didn't know anything about these letters going out to pbull owners today. I would like to see a copy of this letter. I would imagine it was sent out to law abiding folks who actually liscenced their pittys and now they are all going into shock! :eek:

If I come across such a letter, you will see it. Did you get one GeorgiaPeach?

Georgiapeaches
August 22nd, 2005, 02:00 PM
We probably did unofficialy meet that day at city hall. There were so many people I can't recall someone wearing that shirt, but I'm sure if we do meet it may click in my head.

I did recieve a letter today in the mail. My scanner/printer is not working right now, otherwise I would post it up. It is basically notification of the DOLA. On the back of the first page on the bottom half it says, "Update-Proposed Changes to City of London By-Laws to Implement The DOLA With Respect to Pitbulls" Bunch of crap.

I would assume it is the responsible owners who license that are receiving these letters.

lezzpezz
August 22nd, 2005, 02:23 PM
Oh dear. I found where the meeting is being held. I'm going to try to slip out at 4 and sniff around City hall. Here's where it is:

4:00 p.m. Environment and Transportation Committee Board of Control Room

Hang in there.....This won't go on without a helluva fight! Tons of us out here are totally against this BSL and support eachother in this, pit bull owners or not! London is gonna rock tonight! Maybe, just maybe, we can stop this extra London pitbull crap from happening here and now. :(

lezzpezz
August 22nd, 2005, 04:57 PM
I just came back from City hall meeting. Pit bull stuff won't even be looked at til around 7 p.m. or later. I do have a copy of the agenda!! And , I found GeorgiaPeach and introduced myself to her and pointed out the president of the London Dog Owners' Ass'n., so we are off to a good start. The lobby was filling rapidly and GeorgiaP and friend are lucky to have a seat. There were none left at 5 when I deaked out. Only about 15 spectators allowed in, so we are lucky GP made it (a pitty owner), as well as the LDOA president.

Here's the pertinent stuff from the 177 page agenda!! :eek:

Unfortunately, you can't access the Environment & Transportation Committee agenda at www.london.ca at this time, as the agenda is not coming up.....so here's what I can tell you. Hang on to your hats!!

It's agenda item # 20, page 98. Try to view later.....

*States that London has about 756 licensed pbs. No estimates on unlicensed.

*States that major advantage of passing a pit bull dog bylaw is to provide dor a licensing system (money grab :mad: ) for pit bulls that the DOLA does not provide...

*PB licences would only be issued from the date of the passing of the bylaw until Dec. 31, 05; leaves 3 months for owner to get a grandfathered PB licence for the 2006 yr. After that, no more issuing except annual renewal of 2006 licence and any owners of pbs that do not have a pb licence MUST REMOVE THE PB FROM THE CITY OR HAVE IT DESTROYED!!

*No such tag, not allowed in town! At around the 16 year from now mark, no more pbs will exist in London or be allowed in the city. (can you say extermination?);

*No pbs in off leash area(s);

*must post pb property warning signs;

*$1,000,000 in insurance to be purchased;

*No pbs in multiple unit dwellings: too much insurance for landlord; this makes it possible that many pb owners may be required to move or have their dogs destroyed so city decided not to include such a strict provisin in the bylaw as it's "more desirable" to have the money from licences! and to account for the pbs! Mentions that it can be challenged in charter of rights too! Bless the city for this part: "the owner has the right to move with the dog (either out of London or to a non-multiple dwelling in London), to have the pb destroyed or to transfer ownership of the pb to someone who does not live in a multiple dwelling. Furthermore, the owner would have until Dec. 31/05 in order to move, should he or she chose to keep and licence the dog."

*goes on about muzzling;

*enforcement: London bylaw used along with DOLA. For instance, searching for and seizing pbs is left to DOLA. There are 2 ways to lay charges: 1) issuing a Part 1 ticket; 2) laying a Part 3 information.

Part 1: used at time of offence; defendant can plead guilty and pay fine w/no court. States disadvantage is that the max fine is only $500.

Part3: defendant must go to court and can't pay out of court; max fine is $5000.00; can seek probation order. Disadvantage: cumbersom administratively . Anticipate serious or repeat offences and orders to destroy would then be sought.

List of ticketable offenses:
1) own non grandfathered pb: $500;
2) transfer a grandfthrd pb not by gift or bequest: $500;
3) allow pb run at lg: $500;
4) " " " " in off leash area: $500;
5) fail to renew pb lic: $200;
6) fail to attach tag to pb: $200;
7) fail to ensure pb has muzzle: $500;
8) fail to secure pb w/leash: $500;
9) fail to purchase warning sign: $200;
10) fail to post warning sigh: $300;
11) fail to apply to Licence Agent for chng in ownership of pb: $500;
12) fail to ensure pb has microchip: $300;
13) fail to ensure sterilization of pb: 500;
14) fail to provide Lic agent w/new address, phne #: $200;
15) " " " " w/name address, phone# of person to whom giving possession of pb: $200;
16) " " notify " " immediately if pb running at large: $500;
17) " " " notify " " " " " bitten/attacked: $500;
18) fail to remove/destroy pb: $500

The rest of the document, (I am tired of typing!!) is ammendments to DOLA, definitions of Who's who and what powers they have, what dwellings are running at large, tags, control of pbs, apps for licence guidelines, when destroying dog is called for, fees, sterilization, muzzling etc excemptions, general provisions blah blah blah....so overwhelming and surreal!

Will wait to hear more from GPeach and my pres....... :pawprint:

Schwinn
August 22nd, 2005, 05:12 PM
I agree, victims of dog bites deserve compensation. How many pitbull bites have thier been in London? How about bites by other dogs? So, you only deserve compensation if it is from a pitbull. I've said it before, I'll say it again, the dog that ripped half of my sister's face off (literally, she lost part of her lip) wasn't a pitbull, wasn't even part pitbull. I guess she wouldn't deserve compensation then, eh?

lezzpezz
August 22nd, 2005, 05:19 PM
Excellent point, Schwinn. What a load of baloney....so one-sided and unfair in way to many ways to list......my heart is breaking.....I think I'm going to be very busy in my little corner of the world..... ;)

Conners
August 22nd, 2005, 09:30 PM
Well as soon as I heard about it from here, I grabbed up Shasta and we both high tailed it to City Hall. I knew I wouldn't get in since I had her with me, but whi should appear but a reporter. No makeup, hair blown from the bike ride and me in ahalf of a panic attack. I don't even know what I said. He took a lot of video of Shasta though, so hopefully he leaves me out and shows how well behaved and friendly she was.
I'm another that lives on the main floor of a 3 story walk up. I did what the new bill said to do, which was get permossion from all my neighbours that they were not threatened by Shasta being out on a lead without a muzzle. They thought it rediculas, but I told them by law I required their permission. They all gave it. Now London steps in and makes all that a waste. I'm so upset, frozen from standing out there all day and tired from the bike ride there and back from Huron and Highbury.
Anyway, hopefully the positive exposure of Shasta will help. It should be on the 11 PM news tonight I would expect.
If I'm on...I'm looking worse than my worse. My mouth stuck together and hopefully he did a LOT of cutting...and HOPEFULLY I made sence. but you never know with my cognitive problem and him catching me off gaurd.

Georgiapeaches
August 22nd, 2005, 10:23 PM
Sorry it took so long for me to post. I needed to spend some quality time with my two dogs and eat. It was great meeting you Lezzer. I would have introduced myself to Beth except I felt shy and she seemed to be a busy women :) . Maybe the next meeting.

From what I gathered it is NOT looking good. It seems as though council has made up their mind. They did agree that a public input meeting is a fair idea and one will be held. No date was set, so I will keep up to date and find out when. A few councilor's kept repeating the proposed by-law compliments the provincial DOLA very nicely :mad:
Also it was mentioned that many people may think this is a "money grab" (which it is) but the City of London can't expect taxpayers to pay $100,000 (expected cost of London enforcement)for the provinical regulations. It was felt pitbull owners should be paying for it. Real fair, I really asked to have my dogs restricted so please slap the restrictions on us and the bill to enforce them :mad: I knew months ago municipalities were going to have to foot the bill, I just didn't realize they would try and go about it in this manner.

When Mr. Stanford (I believe his name) & friend were asked about the third-party $1 million insurance liability and how much it would cost yearly for a pitbull owner. They claimed they could not get the info and did not know :rolleyes: . I do not believe that is right as when you make a proposal on anything you should always have the facts and information to back up your points. But, they could care less how much it will cost pb owners.
Also, in the proposed by-law they changed I believe (or were contemplating it) "severe bite" to just "bite" to give flexibility.

Lezzer, if you get any more info abou anything, concerning this proposal or ACC please let me know! Thanks :)

Georgiapeaches
August 22nd, 2005, 10:25 PM
Conners,

I LOVE Shasta! I met you outside the City Hall earlier this evening!
Just saw you on The A channel News and you spoke very well about your concerns! :thumbs up And Shasta behaved like an angel :angel:

Conners
August 22nd, 2005, 10:44 PM
Well you know me and Shasta, but which one were you??? I wish I had of known! Darn this brain...sometimes I want to pound it to make it work again! LOL
I didn' get the blue papers everyone was coming out with, but one woman showed me part of it. Anyway I could get a copy if you have it?
GeorgiaPeach, such wonderful compliments. THANK YOU and as for Shasta, that just the way she behaves...but I can't brag because I'm her Mommy so it's nice to hear it frm others. *giggle*

Georgiapeaches
August 22nd, 2005, 11:08 PM
I'm the one who recognized Shasta from meeting her at Fanshawe Conservation last summer :)
It is easy to compliment when she is such a perfect little ambassador of the breed :thumbs up
I had the thick blue agenda but I must have left it by accident. I'm sure you can get it online in a few days, including the minutes of the whole meeting.

Conners
August 23rd, 2005, 12:39 AM
Oh! You are that very beautiful blond that had the beigh pittie at Fanshawe! That is sooo cool! HI! LOL Well now I know your face and that helps me with my memory problems. It's too bad when the reporter was there, that you couldn't have done the talking and Shasta and I could have just let Shasta be Shasta. I'm sure you would have made much better points as I notice you are VERY well informed and that would have been an advantage. Was anyone else there from this group?

lezzpezz
August 23rd, 2005, 08:49 AM
Good morning! I saw Shasta, Conners and GeorgiaPeaches on tv last night! Good for you! It's wonderful that Shasta is such a lovely example of how sweet and gentle a well-trained pitbull is!! What irked me is the footage they showed between council bits and Shasta! Where on earth they found the heavily chained isolated bunch of pitbulls behind wire fencing is beyond me! Could have been from anywhere in the world, in fact, it looked like somewhere rather desert-like and arid! :confused: Looks like the press was trying to show the not-so-positive side of poorly raised pbs......big surprise there....

Conners, if you go to www.london.ca you can access the agenda in full and read the crap the city wants to lay on you. Pg. 98 Section 20.

GeorgiaP: On the news it stated that a public meeting will be held on Monday Sept. 12th. This will address both the Pit bull bylaw stuff and the Animal Control issue. Not going to be a pretty meeting. I have to work again 1-9 that day, so not sure if I can switch or not....guaranteed to be a full house.

I am not at all surprised that the city has gone after the pb owners to try to rake together the $$ needed to enforce the very laws against them. The $$ has to come from somewhere, and asking the non-pb owning public would pizz them off! City takes enough $$ from everyone as it is, so their gonna focus on those that they percieve as being the root of the problem. I guess the provincial gov't doesn't wanna give it, so it appears it is up to each municipality and many cities don't feel any pb bylaw enforcement is gonna happen, 'cause there's no money left to hire staff to bust people and their dogs. But London seems hell-bent on nailing pb owners to the cross. More dip****z in power.....how about dealing with the gun and crime wave problems instead of bothering law-abiding citizens?? :mad: I don't know about you, but I am waaaayyyy more frightened of being accidentally shot or knived than I am at being "bit" by any dog, pitty or otherwise :p

Georgiapeaches
August 23rd, 2005, 10:57 AM
I was disturbed when I saw that footage on the news last night between Shasta and the meeting footage. It looked like dogs that were kept for fighting/breeding purposes and were definitely not from around this area. I do not like that they showed that :mad:

I must have missed the date for the public meeting. I will put my name on to speak. If you (Lezzer) can get off work I hope you will also speak. The same with you Conners!
I am just hoping that we don't have people who start saying stuff like "pitbulls have so much pounds per pressure when they bite" because that is a myth, but people always believe it. Also I hope people don't have outbursts such as last night. A man at the end kept asking the council questions and he seemed pretty distraught and they (Transportation and Environment council) were not pleased. I hope all the presentations are civil and well presented and do not attack the council because they will just ignore the emotional, angry and distraught individuals.

I am definitely more scared of being shot or stabbed in this city than being bitten by a pitbull. I hardly go downtown in the evening and night. The recent Jewllery Heist and chase happened too close for comfort. Wharncliffe(past Home Depot) and through Lambeth where my mother lives.
I am becoming worried that a lot of Toronto's violence is going to end up here, which it will in a matter of time.

I remember Lezzer you saying you would like to live in the middle of nowhere and run a kennel, that woud be so amazing :)

Here is a link to the LFP incase anyone hasn't seen it: Pitbull Meeting Planned (http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/LondonFreePress/News/2005/08/23/1184216-sun.html)Thank you Conners for the compliment

Thank you Conners for the nice compliment :o

Georgiapeaches
August 23rd, 2005, 10:59 AM
Can someone tell me exactly where I can put my name on the list to present?
I can't find out where on the website :o

lezzpezz
August 23rd, 2005, 11:57 AM
In order to get on the speakers' list for the upcoming meeting, there are a few steps to follow. From experience, the speakers' list fill very rapidly, so you gotta stay on top of this one!

I just called City Hall clerk's office and was put thru to the appropriate person who makes up the list, Janet Rice-Gascon. She said that the gobble-dee-goop from last night will go forward next week and either be adopted or ammended and then approved. Then, an ad will be placed in the paper after that under the City announcements. Gotta watch for this one each day in the paper....

At that time, if you wish to speak, (You GO Girl!! :p ), you need to contact Janet at 661-2500 ext. 6479 or you can email her at jrice@london.ca
Include your name, address and phone #. (Now they will know where to send all of the new pit bull penalty invoices, if this crap is approved :mad: ). She will contact you to let you know when you will be scheduled to speak.

As for people getting out of line and upset, yes, it does happen. Just don't let it happen to you. No booing others, no yelling, no dramatic gestures directed at others, or you WILL be asked to leave. Stay calm and composed, no matter how much you want to explode over some stupid comments made by others, (Fred Tranquilli or Gord Hume :p ). We found that the last time we spoke, we were better heard and more appreciated if we kept our cool and stuck to the facts.

Prepare your speech and be prepared to revise it on the spot :eek: as the council gets all ruffled if folks continually harp on the exact same points. No point saying a the same few facts, (pressure of bite :p , pbs used as training dogs, bite stats for other breeds, bad owners making good owners look bad etc....). All of this usually comes out in the first few moments and then everyone has the exact same things to say. Council has heard all of this before at previous meetings. You will likely end up paring down your comments dramatically, but adding new points you think of as others speak and it inspires you :rolleyes:

What they need to hear is why YOU are upset and why this is unfair to YOU and your dog. Try to add in facts and points that others have not mentioned, or may have missed. It is really to your benefit to be there right from the get-go, so you can alter your speach to prevent too much overlap of facts, BUT, you should certainly paraphrase really good points made by others to drive them home, if you feel something needs to be highlighted again to the committee et al.

It is important to thank the committee, right at the start, for the opportunity they have granted you to speak. They love politeness, following of protocol, and brief, to-the-point presentations, (there is a time limit, and they will hold you to it firmly!). If there is something that someone has said that you feel you need to make a rebuttal to, this is the time to add it in. If you alter your speach while listening to others, try to mark down where and when you think your rebuttal will fit in. eg: "As for the comment about jaw pressure per square inch in relation to the bite potential of pb's, made by Councillor Tranquilli, this has been proven to be unfounded nonsense yadda yadda yadda...." , as you talk about how gentle your dog is or something related to aggression, for instance...

So, get to work on what you want and need to say. When the time comes, you'll know what is excessive, what is really necessary to have heard and you'll do fine! Heck, they didnh't throw ME out!! :D

I'll try to be there.....no guarantees. Work is tough when it comes to switching shifts in my department :sad:

Georgiapeaches
August 23rd, 2005, 01:49 PM
Thanks for all your help and assistance Lezzer, you are awsome :highfive:

I will definitely be keeping tabs on when it comes out in the paper and will immediately contact the woman to have my name put on the list!

I will start today gathering my info for my hopeful presentation. Thank goodness I have a few awsome truthful pitbull books (The Working Pitbull, by Diane Jessup) to start with and a lady out in Lambeth sells dog books that are hard to find, so I can always contact her to buy a few more. I also have contact with some gurus of the breed from the U.S. and Canada!

I am definitely not going to be impolite or reptitive. I will be very civil and I want my presentation to be remembered.

Thanks for the tips :)

Copper'sMom
August 23rd, 2005, 02:05 PM
I wish you Londoners the BEST of Luck!!! :grouphug: If I can help out, let me know!!

I saw the news broadcast last night as well. Shasta is beuuuutiful!!! Connors, you did fine!

lezzpezz
August 23rd, 2005, 02:15 PM
You are welcome! You know where to find me...happy to assist you with any help you may want with your presentation. Keep it under 5 minutes, which is the usual allotment per person, and folks always try to go overboard.

It's wonderful that you are rootin' for us CoppersMom! We need all the help we can get. Any good stuff you can think of to perhaps throw in to any speeches we may present? We'd be glad for any assistance to keep us strong!

And I do agree Conners, you were FAB! on the tube last night...very eloquent and a prime example of what a responsible dog owner and her pet look like! Kudos :crazy:

lezzpezz
August 23rd, 2005, 02:21 PM
right from another post...perhaps this fact can be used in your presentation, although something similar will no doubt be mentioned numerous times:

"If past is prologue, none of the bans will have the desired effect. The United Kingdom has prohibited the sale and breeding of pit bulls since 1991 with no impact on the number of dog attacks.

Underlying the campaign to ban pit bulls is the notion that the breed is inherently vicious because pit bulls were originally bred as fighting dogs. That genetic premise is flawed and has failed to stand up in several court cases, including a 2002 Alabama Supreme Court ruling.

Taken from the Wisconsin State Journal on 08-23-2005"

Away we gooooooooo!!!!!!!!!

gdamadg
August 23rd, 2005, 02:22 PM
Good luck to all. :fingerscr

lezzpezz
August 23rd, 2005, 02:36 PM
GP, go to the posts by Luvmypit:

Pit bull article - actually makes sense!


You will find some good stuff and good facts in there, especially the last sentence of the second article!

You don't, however, want to use too many facts and figures so that council's heads spin.... :p

Luvmypit
August 23rd, 2005, 02:39 PM
Thanks lezzerpezzer I was just gonna send georgiaP over to that new thread I posted. Go check it out Geoirgia. Some good points are made in both of them that could help you!

Its in the newspaper thread.

Good luck guys. And a special thank you to lezzerpezzer, don't think that what you do goes unnoticed! YOu are so dedicated to this cause it makes me feel a little better knowing we have people like you that don't even have a pit fighting for us. Means alot!

lezzpezz
August 23rd, 2005, 02:57 PM
I am glad to help. Having you say this, Luvmypit, makes it all worthwhile. This targeting of innocent dogs is so blatantly wrong! I do it for the sake of all dogs, but especially the pits, as I know some that are real cupcakes :p

As we all know, it starts with one breed and who knows? My dogs could very well be next, so I just feel that it needs to be stopped 'cause it's all kinds of wrong! wrong! wrong!

...plus I hate London politics, but that's just an aside.....buncha boneheads.... :love:

Georgiapeaches
August 23rd, 2005, 03:29 PM
Thanks Lezzer and Luvmypit, those articles actually do have great points and will be a big help to me in preparing.

I do not want to go overboard with facts, I would just like a few with references to back them up. I want to add my own personal thoughts and views as well, considering I am a citizen in London who is an owner of two pitbulls and I do have rights.

I am fuming about all this, but I want to put my energy into making a great presentation.

And it is wonderful that non pitbull owners are helping with the fight! It definitely does not go unnoticed :thumbs up Sadly though, eventually another breed will be targeted. I will help that breed fight too, as I am against any type of breed targeting. I love all animals!

Conners
August 23rd, 2005, 05:13 PM
Good morning! I saw Shasta, Conners and GeorgiaPeaches on tv last night! Good for you! It's wonderful that Shasta is such a lovely example of how sweet and gentle a well-trained pitbull is!! What irked me is the footage they showed between council bits and Shasta! Where on earth they found the heavily chained isolated bunch of pitbulls behind wire fencing is beyond me! Could have been from anywhere in the world, in fact, it looked like somewhere rather desert-like and arid! :confused: Looks like the press was trying to show the not-so-positive side of poorly raised pbs......big surprise there....

Conners, if you go to www.london.ca you can access the agenda in full and read the crap the city wants to lay on you. Pg. 98 Section 20
Thanks so much. I think they should have commented of what the footage after Shasta was. If we are unclear and only assuming, what are the general public that don't know pitties thinking? The odd pittie might not be dangerous?
I found the agenda, section 20, but it only goes to 20 pages??? :confused: Where am I going wrong?

lezzpezz
August 24th, 2005, 06:41 AM
Conners, if you come to the Central Library today, I will have the papers with me. Ask for Leslie at the Welcome Desk, main floor, 251 Dundas St. I know what you look like! :p I work there and can easily bring the stuff with me, if you want. If not today, let me know when you'll be in the "hood" and I will bring them with me for you to look at, and copy if you care to:o

lezzpezz
August 24th, 2005, 08:18 AM
Conners, you're not doing anything wrong. Section 20 (the section of the agenda that has to do with pit bull bylaw) is only 20 pgs. (ha! only 20 pages!! :p ), beginning at pg. 98. The first 97 pages are other issues that the ETC had to deal with before the actual pit bull issue.

Hope this helps! I did bring my copy to work, if you still need to see it. ;)

Conners
August 24th, 2005, 03:51 PM
Conners, you're not doing anything wrong. Section 20 (the section of the agenda that has to do with pit bull bylaw) is only 20 pgs. (ha! only 20 pages!! :p ), beginning at pg. 98. The first 97 pages are other issues that the ETC had to deal with before the actual pit bull issue.

Hope this helps! I did bring my copy to work, if you still need to see it. ;)
I finally figured that out, but thanks. I'm a total nervous wreck over this whole thing and the cognitive part is really paying for all the stress.
Maybe I shouldn't be posting this part on this section, but I phoned Pam McClennan from the letters we received for if we needed minor clarification.
In the Ontario Law page, it states that if you do not have an enclosure, you must then go to your neighbours and get their permission that they give concent that your dog does not require a muzzle when out there. Naturally she was still be on her lead with does not give her very much territory. This is because I live in a 3 story walk-up on the main floor. I received that permission (which they thought was absolutely rediculas), but I stressed it wasn't a joke.
Now with what London is purposing, we might not be able to keep our dogs if we live in a multiple dwelling. I was lucky, as she has seen Shasta on tv and felt quite sympathetic to my situation and said not to worry until the Sept's meeting and then call her back.
But if it DOES go through and we DO have to move, we have to give 2 months notice, then the search for an affordable single dwelling (impossible). I WILL NOT LOSE SHASTA!!! I phoned to see if I could get some kind of social worker in to help me because I'm crying at any given moment and this fighting for our rights, no doctors left in London, me without half my medications is scared I'm losing it. It's FIGHT! IGHT! FIGHT! in all areas! Sorry, I guess this is a vent and doesn't belong here. I'll try to stick to the title. I'm sorry!!!

lezzpezz
August 24th, 2005, 04:01 PM
Conners, we're here for ya! Be strong. You are absolutely allowed to rant and this is the exact place for it! I don't know exactly how this will all play out, but what London is proposing on top of BSL is a definite unneeded added headache ! Keep us posted as to your progress. Folks here will try to guide you. Let us know how we can help you. You need to find an advocate/social worker. Have you contacted the councillor of your ward? I realize they are City staff, but they are here to work for YOU! Someone who is very pro-animal, pro-citizen is Councillor Susan Eagle. She's not in your ward, but is a wonderful person. Here's her contact info:

Susan E. Eagle
P.O. Box 1578
London, Ontario N6A 5M3

City Hall: (519) 661-2500 Ext. 4876
City Hall Fax: (519) 661-5933
E-mail: seagle@london.ca
Residence: (519) 657-8720
Bus: (519) 434-7173

It's worth a shot!! :fingerscr

babyrocky1
August 24th, 2005, 04:37 PM
Oh my Gosh you guys Ive been off line for a while, I had no idea all this was going on in London! I dont know what Id do do if I had to come up with that ins. money. Toronto decided against it (for Now) And all my dealings with Animal Control here have been positive. Good for all of you getting up to fight again! Good luck! You guys are all great advocates so I know you have and will do a great job. Just hope its enough. :eek:

Conners
August 24th, 2005, 05:09 PM
Conners, we're here for ya! Be strong. You are absolutely allowed to rant and this is the exact place for it!
You're so sweet to say that and thank you for the phone number, but I have tried every option and they have me suffled somewhere in the paper work...propably filed under T for trash.
My doctor prior to going out west gave me enough repeats for a year, knowing the doctor situation in London, but in May, he was no longer a valid Ontario doctor so they were all null and voided. Went to the St Joes Health Centre (with Mom and brother from out of town) and they turned me out saying they couldn't help me. Went to the Walk-in clinics, they could only help me with several meds but not the rest. Basically, St Joes says I need to wait until my body totally collapes before I can go to Emerg and then and only then will they be able to help me.
If that's not bad enough, my apartment has no floors. Yes you heard right. Tiles have all lifted and I've been fighting for years for repairs. The doctor wrote them it was effecting my COPD due to the mold and my health deteriorating. I called my MPP in my riding and the office gave me numbers. Called the numbers and the answer was Property Standards and fax them with all information required. I did it immediately.
Now Ontario's Breed ban and to make it worse the London proposal. I'm scared out of my wits. I've been fighting until my body wants to totally break down, but I can't allow that because his is too important. I keep a website to inform that this could happen to them (requirding the dogs) and a blog.
Today I get an email from Geocities that my website is bring in too much traffic and needing to close down at peak hours.
What else can go wrong? Me losing Shasta? She's my life, but way things are going, the fight is getting more and more difficult.
I'm not going to post anymore today as this isn't what this forum is for. I'm taking up valuable space for people who have something really important to say. But thank you. I appreciate your concerns. :sorry:

gdamadg
August 24th, 2005, 05:19 PM
Conners,

You are strong but we are there for you to let out your frustrations. We are a community and need to be one more so now. You never know when someone may have some helpful advice to help you with your situation.

Keep being strong and you and Shasta will get through this. :)

Conners
August 24th, 2005, 05:53 PM
Conners,

You are strong but we are there for you to let out your frustrations. We are a community and need to be one more so now. You never know when someone may have some helpful advice to help you with your situation.

Keep being strong and you and Shasta will get through this. :)
The rest is just a build up of years and frustrations, but when Fred Tranquilli preposed this against Londoners, it was like a final blow. How dare he say we can just get rid of our dogs and get a different breed! Doesn't he know anything about Unconditional Love between us and our dogs. Shasta gave me back life. I owe her so much and more and she loves me with all her heart. I can't lose her because of some bylaw. Sometimes my daughter says I love Shasta more than my kids or grandkids. It's not more, it's different. They have their life together and I'm involved, but with Shasta and I..it's the two of us in everything I do. Without her I'm incomplete. Why can't they understand that? How can they blame our dogs for being loving? Why can't they do something about the irresponsible owners?
I asked that woman I was talking to, what those other dogs in the news was all about. She said those are the dogs in the Humane Society that have been dumped off. I asked if they were adoptable and she said yes, if before Sept. 29th. Bu talking to you guys at City Hall, seems they won't allow anyone to adopt them. Basically they showed us puppies and dogs that were as good as dead. How heart breaking is that and nothing we can do about it. And this is just in London. Emagine the thousands that will be murdered just because of IDIOTS! And why? Did they ask to be called Pit bulls? That's like saying if you are disabled then you should be put down. Didn't Hitler do the same thing to the jews? But we aren't suppose to compare humans from animals...but when it's animals that we love ad haven't done a thing wrong, how can they say that? My heart broke when I heard about Denver. Is that what London is going to become? Where we have to send our loved dogs away so they can play freely rather than put down to give them a chance of life rather than having them distroyed. Out of compassion we have to sacrafice the ones we love the most? That's a BIG sacrifice!!!

babyrocky1
August 24th, 2005, 06:07 PM
conners, Im so sorry for your difficulties, I just posted you a long well thought out post that I some how sent out to cyberspace...Im not great with computers. to sum up what I posted before and lost though...you should not feel badly about posting how this is affecting you on this forum. We are probably the only people who can truly understand. This thing has impacted all of us, just on this site alone people have had to move, shut down businesses, have had unbearable emotional difficulties which can ofcourse lead to physical difficulties, unnecessary financial burdens, that some simply don't have the resources to bear and the list goes on and on. All because we love "unpopular dogs" One thing we do have going for us is a strong sense of "community" If you need to feel a little more positive...try reading through some of the Jen Steele saving Lily thread. Now that was a story that looked hopeless, yet, we all banded together, behind a very resourseful and dedicated family and Saved Lily! It makes me feel better when I remember that anyway and you have Lezzerpezzer in your corner of Ontario and she Rocks!!! She has been very supportive of us POOR BELeagered Pittie owners ;) There seem to be a lot of people here from London, maybe they can help to find you a Pit Bull friendly apt. if it coes to that and remember it hasn't yet. Good Luck with it all and welcome to the board!

Conners
August 24th, 2005, 06:21 PM
Thank you for the great advise and I took a medication for panic attacks, so that will definately help, but not as well as all the support I got on here and I can't thank evryone so much just how much you all mean to me. :grouphug:
I should get very tired shortly so I'm going to go take a lie down with my favorite girl. I don't have to tell you who that is. LOL
Just know that this group is THE BEST! Can I say this? Tooo bad..I'm going to, I love you all very much! Thank you!!!!

lezzpezz
August 25th, 2005, 09:03 AM
Thankyou BabyRock1! I was having a rough start to my day today, and then I read your post to Conners. I feel like I can lift up my chin and get crackin' now! :thumbs up

Did you see the newspaper article I posted? Pit bull attack here in London....sigh....not good....That was the first thing I heard on the radio this morning! Then my mother called to tell me she had a heart "attack" 2 nights ago and thought she was dying :eek: , and thought about calling 911 or me, but didn't want to worry me :eek: :eek: :eek:

She is on nitroglycerine for attacks like this, but she needs to CALL ME when this happens!! Sheesh! How considerate of her! I was absolutely flippin' out, but she is fine and I spoke with her doctor. It's funny how for years, my mom was always giving me *****, and now the shoe is on the other foot :p

Anyhow, I thank you for helping me refocus on the day at hand......

Conners, we will get you to a place you need to be if and when the time comes. The next meeting to discuss this London stuff is Sept. 12, then they have to vote on it etc., and this will take a little while to sort out. Relax and take care of yourself for now. Enjoy your Shasta :o time! Remember, she feels what you feel.....so keep calm if you can. :o

Luvmypit
August 25th, 2005, 09:26 AM
Conners,

Its just terrible what has been happening. Welcome to the board. You will find great support here from like minded individuals. We have been knocking our heads together trying to mobilize ourselves to fight this.

I wish there was an easy button that we can press but there isn't. There is comfort here. Who am I going to talk to about all teh harrassment received from fellow citizens, or the alienation we feel for loving this breed.

I hear on the news yesterday that the Toronto Humane Society has said they will NOT be putting any pit bulls down and are going to continue to adopt them out. GO Toronto Humane!!!! Any positive step is a good step! Lets hope lOndon will see it for what it is.

Listen Conners, Do not let these city officials with there high an mighty I make the rules bull (insert expletive) change the way you feel. Try to redirect all that energy into the fight. We are all here standing together.

babyrocky1
August 25th, 2005, 04:12 PM
NOOO Thankyou again Lezzerpez, so sorry to hear about mom. I hope all is well with her now. Hey thats the whole thing we all have our regular life stresses and then we have this huge dark POLITICAL cloud constantly hanging over our heads. And I dont need to tell you guys that we and our dogs are being exploited and victized simply to build some :evil: political careers! I better not get started, we all know the drill! Those were great posts Lezzerpez and Luvmypit :grouphug:

love my dogs
August 29th, 2005, 11:00 PM
Hello to all you fellow Londoners. I will also try to get on the speaking list for the upcoming meeting. It's a tough decision though because if I make myself heard, and this stupid thing passes, will I be a target?
It is the most ridiculous thing......and inhumane...all of it.

I rescued Duke from a shelter on Jan 8, 2005. I was not looking for a pit, and in fact I was not particularly interested in having anything to do with them, due to the fear mongoring media and the general bad rep.
What I wanted was a little dog (less shedding, less poop, less dirt) to be a companion to my collie x.
He was 12 weeks old and the only puppy in the place. "I'll come back another day" I said. But the good people at the shelter were kind enough to pull my heart strings with stories about the ban and Duke's possible destruction, or maybe ending up in the wrong hands and becoming a danger to society.
I thought he deserved a chance at life, and took him home. He is a fantastic pet, and much better behaved than Daisy. Who'd of thought?
My family thought I was crazy, my husband almost divorced me, but they all love him now!!!!

I'm so angry at the city for this because I rescued an animal who could have ended up with one of these "bad owners" that are the problem, and now I am being punished for this? I just moved to London from beyond the city limits, and I pay enough friggin property taxes to live here. I paid to have him fixed to conform to the ban, now even more expenses!! Plus, the licences I currently hold for my dogs are for Strathroy, not London. So now will that be a problem for me too?

I also have a question for you Londoners. Do you know if there will be a place and time were pits can go without a muzzle to socialize........since the proper socialization of pups and young adults is all part of bite prevention, there should be some sort of provision for this......if indeed the goal is to prevent bites, that is.

babyrocky1
August 29th, 2005, 11:07 PM
Some of us are trying to start a pit bull co-op here in Toronto for these same reasons...so far we have been doing more like Pit bull dating, but thats fun too. Rocky has had play dates with Kayla and we are planning more meet ups. I got him a couple of dates at the vigil last night as wellLOL It seems like there are enough of you in LOndon with the same concerns so maybe you could start by meeting up and socialising with each other. Ofcourse finding a place to do it off leash will be a challenge, but even walking them together when they first meet is some socialisation! Okay Im really goinng to sleep now...Oh and welcome to the board LOve my dogs.

Conners
August 30th, 2005, 12:02 AM
Hello to all you fellow Londoners. I will also try to get on the speaking list for the upcoming meeting. It's a tough decision though because if I make myself heard, and this stupid thing passes, will I be a target?
Welcome aboard love my dogs! The way I see it, anyone in London that owns a pit bull is a target in the eyes of Fred Tanquilli, but I wouldn't let that stop you.
I just wrote him an email. I wonder if he will respond...and if it will be a rather form letter rather than what my appeal was. I appealed to his heart. Don't laugh, somewhere in there there has to be one.
I told him my whole life history basically and all about Shasta. If there is a heart in there, my mission was to touch even a smiggen of it.
Here is is. Do you think it 'might' help? It's long, so I warn you now!

Dear Mr. Tranquilli,

I don't understand your reasoning of having to live in a single dwelling for owning a Pit bull breed. You are not being fair to responsible caring owners that love their pet as a family member.

We are already required by law to muzzle and keep on a short leash, our dogs while out in public. Why then would it matter if we remained living in multi-dwelling residences. If we are responsible to comply to all the requirements of the law, why would you target owners of such breeds.

You have already proposed outrages fees that as a responsible and loving owner, would come up with the money somehow, even if that meant no groceries for myself or barely a Christmas with my family and grandchildren. That's how much I love and cherish my dog.

I never went to look for a Staffordshire as a pet. I was training a young 6 week old puppy for my daughter and son-in-law as my daughter had just had a baby 6 weeks prior. They brought the puppy to temporarily live with me, to teach it obedience and gentleness due to the fact I had the two grand kids and wanted her to be gentle with them.
.
As things turned out, the puppy did become mine and I'm glad she did as she changed my whole life. She was exactly what I needed without realizing it.

I had come out of an abusive marriage after 23 years that caused a broken neck with two vertebrae piercing my spinal cord. Although thankfully I did survive the surgery in one piece, the trauma brought on multiple severe disabilities that are permanent.

Because of this, other conditions continue to plague me and I had developed severe phobia's as well, along with cognitive memory problems. One was afraid of leaving my home or being in public places.

Once I received the pup, I had to take her for walks. They were short as you can imagine, but as I got out more with her and people talking to me about the pup, it began to get easier. The disabilities that prevented me to walk any distant (approx. 1/2 a city block on a good day) was increasing as I found this new sense of freedom exillerating.

My dog, Shasta got me out in the world again and it was fun exploring with her and taking on new challenges. I can now walk miles with her on good days and when I am not well she demands nothing from me and stays by my side, as if she realises that my body hurts.

I even bought a bike and although still some phobia's exist, such as taking public transit, we can ride for miles and grocery shop together. She has given me back life again. We can walk or ride the bike to see my grand children.

Winters were severe on me, but since I've gotten Shasta which will be 3 years in October, I enjoy the outside with her. The person that laid in bed all winter in Chronic Fatigue and in pain slipped away as my spirit rose. Shasta literally gave me back life and I owe her mine.

I was just getting us ready for the St. John Ambulance Dog Therapy Program to try to share with the community what Shasta had given me. It was shortly after that, that Michael Bryant announced his proposal of Bill 132. St. Johns informed me because of the bill that pit bull breeds could no longer become active members to help the seniors and the sick kids. Also the pit bull breeds that were already in the program would have to be removed. A dream shattered by a bill.

But, Shasta was able to help in other ways. My Property Manager that had a severe fear of dogs, asked me if I could bring Shasta to the office more often as she wanted to get over her fears. She was bitten as a child by a dog, an no, it wasn't a pit bull. I asked her the same question. Funny how dogs were viciously attacking people and yet, I get asked to bring my pittie in to help someone overcome my fears. I asked her why Shasta? She told me it was because she see's that she is gentle and loving.

The day came when she decided to come out from behind the counter to actually attempt to pat Shasta. Shasta sensed her fear and never moved a muscle so as to not scare her. She only looked up at her happily. Does this sound like a vicious dog to you?

Shasta is extremely friendly, but senses when she should not move. She has been socialized since 6 weeks old and doesn't even chase squirrels or raccoons. She is neither people aggressive, nor animal aggressive. She has been raised amongst animals her whole life.

The Provincial Governments page states that if you do not have a fenced in back yard, that you must go to your neighbours and ask for their consent to whether they feel in any way endangered by your dog. My neighbours laughed when I asked them, until they found I was being serious and of course I received that consent from them.

I had done all that the provincial government requested of me, when you threw Londoners your new proposal. You say Pit bull owners should pay because of their breed. Shasta has not done anyone any harm, only good, yet you target me for the breed of my dog. You target an angel that has given me back life and tell me to get rid of her and get another breed. That is a cold and heartless thing to say to someone who loves her dog as unconditionally as Shasta loves me.

I'm on permanent disability and living where I live is difficult enough going month to month, but to rent a single dwelling is impossible with what I get. For one, I need to live by shopping area's as I still have nerve damage and can't carry heavy groceries home.

Often in the winter, I put one of my grandsons sleds on her lead and she pulls the groceries home for me, or that is another way we take the garbage to the bins in the driveway. She is not only my loving companion, but my therapy and service dog as well.

Many things I could not do if it wasn't for her. With her help, I have my own independence. People are not always available when you really need something's, so Shasta and I have devised our own ways of doing things.

I would also like you to know that when I walk with her, she does not frighten the general public, but instead attracts them. She has an amazing nature and I love her so much.

You probably wonder with my disabilities how I can handle her, but she has been trained since a pup and knows my limits. She never pulls, but walks obediently beside me. She does whatever it takes to please me and loves the attention of other people and socialising with their pets.

She only barks when someone comes to my door or patio. She has learnt to say 'mom' when she needs to be taken outside and due to people being amazed by that has perfected it to sound like a child calling. She gives me and others so much joy, yet you target us because of her breed and not by her nature. This just doesn't seem fair at all.

I am not an owner that allows her to roam free and trained her to viciously attack people. I am totally against such people even owning dogs all together and wish they could be targeted to stop the backyard breeding, the puppy mills and the dog fighting. You know as well as I that they are the reason we are being targeted. They are the owners that are abandoning their dogs rather than go by the law.

The criminals use their dogs for their crimes. They abuse, drug, fight and abandon them when they are through with them. These are the people you and the police should be going after and stop their deplorable activities towards people and the dogs.

I urge to you reconsider your proposed bylaws and know the general public would help you in seeking the guilty parties involved. This would be a benefit to all Londoners.

Sincerely,
Connie Dufour

Conners
August 30th, 2005, 12:24 AM
Sorry love my dogs, I got sidetracked with the email that I forgot to add about the other question you posted about socializing.
Other than Puppy Daycare (I believe that's the right name but someone correct me if I'm wrong) is a day care for dogs like a nursery school.
But I find that socialization also comes in many other forms too. Taking them to the pets store (help me out with the name people. the one on Wellington Road close to the highway) and even going for walks in the park meeting other owners and their pets. We still don't know how the people will feel about the muzzling, but from the people i meet on the street, I don't think that will be a problem by most.
I have friends with dogs and when they come to visit, of course bring the dog! LOL My cats just shake their heads as they see another visitor for Shasta coming.
And neighbours with dogs. Get to know them and give the dogs a romp. At least that's a good start for the pup until you meet more people.

Georgiapeaches
August 30th, 2005, 12:28 AM
It's a tough decision though because if I make myself heard, and this stupid thing passes, will I be a target?

Love My Dogs, I wouldn't worry about being a target, aslong as you abide by the restrictions in place by the province. You are enititled to fight and be heard! I mean aslong as we don't have our freedom of speech taken away.

Heck, my name was in the paper (LFP) this past Sunday, quoting me as saying if the London bylaw passes I will not be able to get insurance and I will transfer out east. It even gave my two pitbull's names. Ironically though if local ACC were to check my name they are registered under my fiance's name, as are their microchips and vet bills. The LFP didn't state all I had said, such as I will fight but will likely move anyhow, even if insurance isn't implemented, etc. I've had about enough of Ontario anyhow.
I want my two dogs to be able to properly socialize. I just went and bought them the wire type basket muzzles and they HATE them. They have worn them for a toal of 5 minutes. Daisy had her paw stuck in one when trying to paw it off and started yelping. :sad:

And just a word of caution, I have been told by an involved person in this situation that Strathroy will be looking at placing more restrictions on pitbulls just as London is.

Georgiapeaches
August 30th, 2005, 12:36 AM
Conners that is a great letter you sent. Very detailed and personal, that is what is needed! You have gone through huge hurdles and it's wonderful to know you had Shasta's help :highfive: :thumbs up

Oh and the pet store you are reffering to is either Super Pet or Petsmart?!

Conners
August 30th, 2005, 12:47 AM
I read where someone from one of the animal advocates fighting against the ban 132 that maybe we gave too many facts and not enough of ourselves personally. So I thought, well let's try it out on Freddy! LOL
It's can't hurt...but M A Y B E it could help.
You're right, it's SuperPet, but they still have to be muzzled. I keep forgetting that got passed today.
On a happy note about the muzzle I got for Shasta, once she saw it was an outting IF she left it on, it didn't spoil her fun too much. I'm using the comfort muzzle and basically it hides under her halti so she doesn't look like hannible Lector.
I know I have full control of her so outting like that I'm not concerned with. I will get her a better one for when I take her shopping and leave her out by the cart, but thinking of making my own. Within the law but not so HL.
Thanks for the thumbs up! But that credit goes to Shasta! :angel:

doggy lover
August 30th, 2005, 05:11 AM
Silly question from a non-pit owner, what are the four breeds that are to be banned? I emagine American pitbull terrier, American Staf. Terrier but what are the two others? I heard that here in TO that there are 4 breeds banned that are pitbull like. I read in the paper yesterday that people who want to train an aggressive dog will just find another breed to ruin, and I agree. The idiots that have ruined the pitbull reputation will just find another breed maybe return to rotts, or something else. I believe in the saying there is no bad dog just bad owners and your dogs got a bum rap, which breed is next? Keep fighting guys.

BullLover
August 30th, 2005, 08:28 AM
Conners;
Great email. You guys have to let me know where to go for the next meeting and I'll be there too. I have 3 pits, but maybe I'll just bring one down.

gdamadg
August 30th, 2005, 10:47 AM
doggy lover, Here is the definition of a "pit bull".

For the purposes of Bill 132, the law defines a "pit bull" as a
pit bull terrier, a Staffordshire Bull Terrier, an American
Staffordshire Terrier, an American Pit Bull Terrier, or a dog
that has an appearance and physical characteristics that are
substantially similar to those dogs.

Schwinn
August 30th, 2005, 11:03 AM
Interesting. It names a pit bull terrier, and an American Pitbull terrier. So, it names a non-existent breed since pit bull terrier isn't short for AMPBT

doggy lover
August 30th, 2005, 11:09 AM
But that could be alot of different types of dogs. You think if they were going to make stupid laws that they would have a clear deffinition of what breeds of dogs that will be affected? Why are they more clear, it that so they can add more dogs later? What a load of crap. I wonder if Tucker has any characteristics of a pitbull?????????????? What do you think, staring eyes, a mouth, teeth?

lezzpezz
August 30th, 2005, 11:15 AM
Good day to all! I have been a little sidetracked lately, with my mother's health and all, but she's out of the woods now and I am back in the saddle....

Lot's to say! Excellent, passionate and honest letter, Conners! Well done. :thumbs up

And to Love my dogs: quote
"Do you know if there will be a place and time were pits can go without a muzzle to socialize........since the proper socialization of pups and young adults is all part of bite prevention, there should be some sort of provision for this......if indeed the goal is to prevent bites, that is."

I am on the exec of the London Dog Owners' Association. We are in the process of opening 2 new leash-free parks in London!! Yippee! :D and one of the proposals we wanted to run by the city was that there be a specific time/area just for unrestrained pitties. We realize the need for pbs, just like any other dog, to have a muzzle free play time in a safe environment. None of us even own a pitty, but we certainly get it!

Unfortunately, the way the City is heading, this idea does not look like it will fly at all, but it wasn't for lack of trying on our part. I think we need to not press this issue right now, but concentrate on getting the parks open. Our focus right now is to get the parks up and running, before the City changes it's mind about letting us have any more areas for this, in light of the current pb issue and the ACC contract issue. We can always reinvestigate the need for pitbull playtime a little later on, when things perhaps settle and sort out.

I think that Conners had some wonderful ideas, and you should consider these.

And to BullLover: quote: "You guys have to let me know where to go for the next meeting and I'll be there too. I have 3 pits, but maybe I'll just bring one down."

The meeting is scheduled for Sept. 12 at City Hall. Time to be announced. You can get on the speakers list, but act fast! Of course, no pets allowed :p in city hall, but they are most welcome on the property!!

Georgiapeaches
August 30th, 2005, 12:06 PM
Lezzer, Glad to see you back and that your mother is in better health. :)

I contacted the city clerk this morning and she said a list has not been made up as of yet, because they are trying to get the time of the meeting first. She has put me on file to be on the list and she will contact me for my presentation time closer to September 12.

I was just curious if you would know if they would be holding it in the same location as last time? I was curious because there really was not enough room. If there are approximately over 700 registered pitbulls by approximately 680 individuals, they should be holding it in a larger location such as Centennial Hall or Central high school. Not in a location that only holds about 60-80 people. Do you know how one could request they accommodate all the pitbull owners just incase as all will be affected by the proposal? I am not saying all or even half will show but just to be safe they should prepare for more than 60-80!

Conners
August 30th, 2005, 12:32 PM
Still no reply from Fred Tranquilli, but then it's a weekend. I want to speak, but get so nervous and emotional, that I don't know if it's wise. I might be better of outside with Shasta like the other meeting showing the positive side of pit bulls. Shasta hasn't ask me to take her to Hollywood yet, so that's a relief. :p
The reason I wrote that letter that way, was I was hoping to see what responce I would get from Tranquilli. When the victims spoke to Bryant regarding Bill 132, they spoke with such passion about their attacks. We gave facts and obviously that didn't work.
One of the advocates for I forget which group, said maybe we went will too much fact and not enough passion. Our facts were repeated over and over again stressing that the BSL wasn't the way.
Well perhaps now if we fight for our dogs in the same manner as the victims did, because our dogs are the victims and we are the targets, do you think that might be a better way to go. Plus the fact, not a lot of us can afford to pay these outrages fees and show we lose our beloved family member due to our income.
I am very interested in receiving a reply back from Freddy (aka Krogger) Tranquilli to see if anything touched him by what I wrote and if it did, them perhaps I would use that approach when speaking to all the council members.
What do you think?

lezzpezz
August 30th, 2005, 12:37 PM
Thanks GP!

Ah yes, where to hold the meeting....this was the problem the time they held a public meeting re: dogs! in Nov!! They pretty much knew that this was a hot topic that would draw tons of passionate people, and the meeting was held in a much larger venue at City Hall, but it was still waaaayyyy too small to accomodate everyone. That's why many of us were left out in the hall in a pizzy frame of mind :mad:

I would expect that the meeting will be held in the largest room at city hall, (can't remember the name or which floor), and still, it will not hold everyone that wishes to attend. There is no way to anticipate the turn out, but you know that they KNOW it will be overflowing and if they were smart, they would hold it in an appropriate alternative venue. But, because there are other issues on the agenda, it will likely need to be held at City Hall, itself.

I would think that this could be suggested and most likely has been brought to the attention of City Hall, but their gonna do whatever they like. When you call, find out where it's being held and ask how many speakers are on the agenda. They will be able to tell how full the place will be, as the list will be quickly filled!!

Conners
August 30th, 2005, 12:48 PM
after that over-flow of supporters at the city hall meeting regarding the ban, Fred Tranquilli anounced we could have a Part B of the same meeting but hold it in Centennial Hall.
When I heard nothing of the second meeting I emailed him and he told me I was the only one that had inquired about the 2nd meeting, so he assumed everyone was satisfied. He invited me to come to speak in one of their other meetings if I so desired and I could have my say. (Don't THINK so! But thanx for asking)
Perhaps we should remind them that the largest room in City Hall never held the first group and suggest Centennial Hall.

love my dogs
August 30th, 2005, 01:17 PM
CONNERS-Your story should be shared with the public, and we need more stories like that to help the cause.
If you press really hard, I don't see how they could deny giving you some sort of exemption from all these bylaws. Your dog is a therapy dog in every sense exept for being licensed as one. I've heard that pits make great therapy dogs. I beleive that other therapy dogs such as hearing impaired and seeing eye dogs do not cost a penny to licence.
Enforcing the new city bylaws on you would cause you such financial and emotional hardship. You have a very compelling argument for exemption.....Look, if someone in pain can get a perscription for marijuana!

If I were you I'd keep sending similar emails to city hall, as well as the LFP, and read your letter on Sept.12 at the meeting........MAKE SURE everyone knows your situation so that it cannot be ignored.

How would you get groceriers without Shasta? Would your phobias increase again if you could not keep her? I really hope that you can come to the meeting and read your story. If not maybe someone else can read it there.

I definately plan on making my arguments about my personal situation, which is nothing like conners, but instead show that I do not deserve to be punished for giving one of god's creatures a chance, and preventing the possibilty of him being used and abused for bad.

BullLover
August 30th, 2005, 02:22 PM
I'll be there on the outside with one or two of my dogs. I don't think that I could ever talk about this issue in front of city officials without throwing a chair or cursing someone out...

love my dogs
August 30th, 2005, 02:59 PM
Tranquilli thinks that all pb owners are bad owners. Why, because as he said in his own words "people can choose another breed"! He doesn't understand why someone would choose to have a breed that has such a bad rep, was bred for dog fighting, looks tough and mean, and (for new owners) is now subject to several restrictions.
It makes sense to him, and many others. Tranquilli's assumption is that anyone who wants a dog (like a pb) that is known for fighting, is tough looking and overall intimidating to most, cannot have good intentions.

I think we all need to appeal to that train of thought, and give him reason to question himself. If he (and the press) gets enough emails from pb owners with stories that do not fit his stereotypical image, he may be forced to see us as individuals instead of a pack of angry owners with a pack of angry pitbulls.

Conners
August 30th, 2005, 04:33 PM
Ok...so who do I call to sign up and how long do we have to speak? I know I read in somewhere in one of the posts. Who's going to hold me up when I faint? ;)

love my dogs
August 30th, 2005, 04:57 PM
Yahoo conners!!!!! You can do it!!! The meeting is Sept.12 (not sure of a time yet), I beleive that the following quote is how to get on the speakers list.
quoted from a previous post:

"you need to contact Janet at 661-2500 ext. 6479 or you can email her at jrice@london.ca
Include your name, address and phone #. (Now they will know where to send all of the new pit bull penalty invoices, if this crap is approved ). She will contact you to let you know when you will be scheduled to speak."

Conners
August 30th, 2005, 05:05 PM
Oh gawd! Yes I will do it, but without Shasta by my side, it's going to be really scarey. I didn't realize how much I relied on her until thinking about sitting in front of people without her by my side. That's when I pat and hug her and get relaxed. But thanks for the info and I will email and give all the info. I'll be the one totally shaking but have to rmember...this is for the dogs! ...this is for Shasta! I can do this! aaauuuggghhhhh when you see a woman in complete panic, come up and say hi. A hug would be better. That's what Shasta would do! LOL

love my dogs
August 30th, 2005, 05:39 PM
I just shot off my email asking for a spot, so hopefully I get one.
I'm nervous too,.....but only because once I start opneing my big mouth and letting everyone know who I am, there would be no chance of registering him as some other breed.
Anyway, I'll be there too, so don't worry.

Conners
August 30th, 2005, 10:32 PM
as soon as i sent my message to you, i automatically emailed too. so no backing down. we can hold hands together and look like nerves cats...but rember, tell yourself...this is for the dogs! this is for the dogs! this is for the dogs!

Georgiapeaches
August 31st, 2005, 12:13 AM
Great you guys for requesting to speak!!!!!!! :highfive:

I will be nervous too, but we must remember it is for the dogs who do NOT have a voice!! the more people who speak & attend the better! I will just have to make sure I speak slowly, lol, when I get nervous I tend to talk pretty fast.

Lezzer, the clerk did not yet know the time or location, but will be calling me with my time slot closer to the date and informing me of the time/location.
I guess people should show up early, or else face the same annoying run around as last time.

Conners
August 31st, 2005, 03:15 AM
GeorgiaPeach, how long did it take for the clerk to notify you, you were on the list...and did she tell you what number you would be called? I DO NOT want to go first!!!
When you first go and address them, what do you say? Something like, I'd like to thank the council members for giving me this opportunity to speak.'? I totally forget what they said that first packed house they had.
Yeah! Yeah! Worrying over little details...but after all, we don't want Freddy to think we are uneducated pit bull thugs. So I think this is important.
Any other suggestions anyone can think of would be appreciated too. And is simply saying, 'thank you' afterwards fine? :confused:

Me and Kayla
August 31st, 2005, 06:46 AM
When you first go and address them, what do you say? Something like, I'd like to thank the council members for giving me this opportunity to speak.'? I totally forget what they said that first packed house they had.
:

Conners, just a suggestion....why don't you write out what you want to say, pass it by a few people to help edit and then just plan to get up in front of them and read what you wrote. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. And, thank you's are never wasted. ;)

Kayla and Me

lezzpezz
August 31st, 2005, 09:00 AM
Conners, go back in this very thread to post #31. I have outlined it all for ya :p It is a long post, but I speak from experience. Be polite, brief (under 5 minutes) and don't worry about being nervous. Everyone is. I was! But I did it! You can too! Once you're up there, just read what you've got, speak up and speak clearly. The councillors will understand your nervousness. Take deep breaths and take your time reading, so you are not rambling. Pause if you need to recoup, then carry on.

By the way, if you are selected for the speakers list, you are guaranteed a spot in the room. Be there early and get a seat. Once the doors are closed, you are not allowed in, even if you have made the list. So be there!

Also, you should be prepared to hand in your speach for the records. The clerk will take a copy from you, so you may want to have a copy for yourself to keep and one to hand in. Good luck with writing! And we will be happy on this site, to read and help you with your speech!! :D

lezzpezz
August 31st, 2005, 09:11 AM
By the way....there's a few juicy "opinions" in today's LFP. One guy says:"There are many excellent breeds of dogs that are suitable as pets. Most of the working-class dogs are good with families that have small children." (This next part is the part that kills me... :p )..."German shepherds, Labrador retrievers, standard poodles and golden retrievers make excellent family pets because their training over the years is to please their owners. They are highly adaptable and patient as well -- their instincts are to do a job, whether it's guarding family children, herding sheep, retrieving duck or whatever job they are asked to do."

HA! Aren't GShepherds and Labs on record as having the HIGHEST incidents of bites?? Do I have to write another letter to the paper?? sigh......yet another person who ignores the stats and facts......

Schwinn
August 31st, 2005, 09:13 AM
HA! Aren't GShepherds and Labs on record as having the HIGHEST incidents of bites?? Do I have to write another letter to the paper?? sigh......yet another person who ignores the stats and facts......

Sounds like a good idea to me!

lezzpezz
August 31st, 2005, 10:24 AM
Here it is......feel free to comment/correct/enhance.....

I would like to point out some information in response to the letter dated Aug. 31/05 by Roger H. Foord, who submitted , " Pit bulls not safe in houses with kids", Aug. 31/05.

In his letter, Mr. Foord states, "German shepherds, Labrador retrievers, standard poodles and golden retrievers make excellent family pets because their training over the years is to please their owners. They are highly adaptable and patient as well--their instincts are to do a job...".

The hard and real truth is that 3 of the 4 dogs that Mr. Foord suggests as more safe and suitable family dogs are in actuality documented to be the worst offenders when it comes to dog bite statistics, as clearly stated by Steve Barker, Ontario director of the Dog Legislation Council of Canada, in another recent article printed in this paper.

In the article, 'HORRIFIC' ATTACK SEES PIT BULL MAUL TERRIER
Thursday, August 25, 2005, Mr. Barker states the following: "Statistics show pit bulls account for only five to 10 per cent of dog bites in Canada, matching their percentage of the dog population". He continues: "They're not particularly biting any more than any other dog, not even necessarily any worse than any other dog.", and he adds, "Pit bull bites get reported more often.". He continues, "Other big dogs, including German shepherds, retrievers, Labradors and Rottweilers, often hit the top of the bite list."

I would also like to note that most dog bites occur on the family property, inflicted by the very dogs that live amidst the children and other family members they are there to guard. Any dog in the hands of someone who does not bother to train or socialize it, can bite or be aggressive, even the dogs that are percieved as gentle loving family pets. A bad dog owner is a bad dog owner, no matter the breed in his or her possession.

So, once again, the facts have been distorted and overlooked in favour of media hype and government grandstanding. If people would actually look at the statistics and pay heed to the fact that no major animal rescue organizations or professionals in the animal industry have supported the banning of pit bulls, they might realize that pit bulls are not the problem. The problem lies with the owners of all dogs that are aggressive, untrained and not properly socialized and this is what should be addressed.

Georgiapeaches
August 31st, 2005, 11:07 AM
Lezzer, Great letter :thumbs up
This guy is so ignorant and close minded.
In this statement by him, German shepherds are sometimes trained as attack dogs by police or the military. It is not their nature to do this, but their high need to please their owners will lead them to exceed their natural instincts. he just explained the personality of APBT's, pitbulls, Amstaffs and Staffies. They are working breeds that love to please their owners. Look at Neville for example, he was trained to work with the Washington State Police as a bomb sniffing dog, he is a very eager boy wanting to please his handler!!
Pitbulls are therapy dogs, search and rescue dogs, etc. and it is all about pleasing their owner. My two are not in anything special but I can tell they want to please, Daisy learned 5 commands and hand signals in very little time.
And the children comment, I am not even going to start on that. Maybe a little, :p Pitbulls are known to be wonderful around children, aslong as they are of proper temperment. Once again from my own experience, Georgia(my 5 year old pitbull x) I'll just show a pic:It is crappy quality as it is scanned, but this is my fiance and his nephew and Georgia :)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/JpGeo/GeorgiaShawn.jpg

lezzpezz
August 31st, 2005, 12:17 PM
Wow GP! I didn't know you were going to marry Adam Sandler!! :D Good for ylu!! :highfive:

Georgiapeaches
August 31st, 2005, 12:38 PM
Wow GP! I didn't know you were going to marry Adam Sandler!! :D Good for ylu!! :highfive:

Lol, it must be the angle, he looks nothing like Adam Sandler. You gave me a good laugh though :D

morgiesmommy
August 31st, 2005, 01:13 PM
Hi everyone, I am so happy to hear so many of you are planning on attending the PB meeting in London on Sept. 12th. I have been e-mailing councilors and MP's like crazy lately and am glad to hear I am not the only one.
The only issues we can really influence during this meeting are the city by-laws that have been put on the table by our city council That being:
1)Pay a licence fee of $130 annually, compared to the current $25.
2)Pay $25 for a warning sign at the entrance to their property.
3)Pay a first-time administration fee of $25.
4)Provide proof their pit bull is microchipped and sterilized.
5)Purchase $1 million in liability insurance.
All other issues are a provincial issue and should be directed to our MP's.
Our councilors taking advantage of this to put in place another huge cash grab is completely unforgivable. I am sickenned to hear that PB owners are abandoning thier pets in droves for fear of being put into financial ruins by these unessesary fees. The pets that share our beds, play ball with us on Saturday afternoons are sitting awaiting thier inevitable fate in the pound.
The banning of PB's, along with the sterilization requirement, muzzeling and leashing requirements etc are all issues that need to be directed to your local MP. I took the step of e-mailing every Ontario MP individually about thsi issue (Mass e-mail will be blocked as spam through the government's spam blocker).
One more note, staffie owners have an additional route to take. The new provincial legislation regarding Pit Bulls includes The Staffordshire Bull Terrier on the list of banned breeds. The Staffordshire Bull Terrier is a pure bred dog registered under the National Live Stock Records and through the Canadian Kennel Club. The Municipal or Provincial Government CANNOT put forth legislation that overrules legislation already in place with the Federal Government. This means Staffie owners should address this issue with both the Federal and municipal govenments.
Mr. Joe Fontana would just love to hear from you I am sure. Fontana.J@parl.gc.ca.

love my dogs
August 31st, 2005, 04:33 PM
Nice to have you on board morgiesmommy. Do you have a speach planned for the meeting?

morgiesmommy
September 1st, 2005, 06:38 AM
I am writing a speech but it is really stressing me out. I am not good in front of alot of people especially when I am so passionate about the topic. I am having difficulties sticking to the topics that city council can actually do something about because there are so many issues concerning these dogs right now.
Is anyone getting together for a puppy play date before the meeting? Perhaps a monday get together to get ourselves ready and discuss our speeches ect?
Has anyone tried these frickin muzzels? They are TOTALLY not made for a pit or staffy. They just don't fit! Morgie and I tried one on last night and I took her for a walk with it. She dragged her face on the ground the whole time trying to get it off and it hung about 3 inches away from her face. Another dog approached and I started to panick because, my dog is leashed and muzzeled. IF this dog decided to take a peice of her what exactly can she do?

lezzpezz
September 1st, 2005, 09:00 AM
Excellent research and info Morgiesmom! You have directed folks to the appropriate places to send forth concerns. Lots of stuff in your post that is helpful :highfive:

As for muzzles...my 3 dogs have all been wearing haltis for a few years and from day one, they have tried to take them off by rubbing their snouts on the ground. They do this every time we go for a walk. They get over it after about a minute of trying to get the halti off, but every time they have them put on, they try to rub them off. Just part of the process, and they don't manage to get them off, with the exception of Rosie. She's very good at it! :p
They just wanna be free!!!!

Schwinn
September 1st, 2005, 09:05 AM
Excellent letter, Lezzer! And welcome, morgiesmommy!

lezzpezz
September 1st, 2005, 09:24 AM
good morning and thank you, Schwinn :thumbs up

I actually just sent it in with a few tweeks....felt compelled to use the word "ironic" when describing Mr. Foord's choice of family pets and I made a few other slight changes. Boy, the press is gonna ban ME! I certainly have lots to say.....

I got some beautiful and very flattering feedback, (in print!) from my last article in the Londoner paper, (another local rag...). I guess I'm not so far out there after all! I sure feel great about it! As should all of you that are preparing to speak at city hall on Sept. 12th! You have to do this....this is your chance to do something for your innocent pets who have no voice. I am proud of all of you!!! :grouphug:

morgiesmommy
September 1st, 2005, 10:16 AM
Thanks for the welcomes and encouraging words everyone. I am glad to have stumbled into this forum!
On a side note, it has been brought to my attention that there is an older Staffie looking for a rescue home. It is in need of a home with no other pets. He is 12 and not in the greatest shape.
If you know of anyone who may be interested please let me know.

love my dogs
September 1st, 2005, 10:52 AM
hey morgiesmommy- I think it's good to show some emotion when you speak, as long as your not out of control. I also know what you mean about sticking to the municiple issues....not easy.

As for the muzzle, I myself don't have one of the "approved" kind yet, but I saw some good ones made just for bullies shape of head and snout. They were on tv.....made by "hot dogs all dressed". I plan on checking them out.

Also, I'd like to arrange play dates too, since my dog is still only 10 months and still need socializing. My yard would be a perfect location....if it were fanced in :confused: ! I have almost 2 acres, but only a very small portion is fenced. We plan to fence the whole thing as soon as we can save the $.
In the meanwhile, do you know of any safe locations for play without a leash and muzzle?

morgiesmommy
September 1st, 2005, 11:26 AM
My husband and I just bought a new home with a fenced back yard, but do not move in until mid October. Until then it is leashes and muzzels for Morgie.
I will call this afternoon, perhaps the Humain society or Animal Control will have suggestions. This is so rediculous. Worse case scenario if you are still interested we could just meet up somewhere and let them socialize in their gear.
Morgie is a great one for socializing with. She is very laid back and isn't fazed by other dogs.
Anyone interested in getting together for a puppy play date e-mail me at I will arrange a place and time. I'm hoping we can do something before Monday's meetings.

lezzpezz
September 1st, 2005, 11:42 AM
Oh you guys are killin' me! I have a fully fenced yard. With a pool....and a doggie pool....I live by Springbank park, which is very central to everything. I am off on Sat. Sept. 10th, which is 2 days before the meeting at city hall. I am thinking that you could use my yard for some doggy time :pawprint: and have a powwow about speeches then and there. I can move my dogs to the neighbour's yard across the street during this, as they just aren't pb's, and this is and exclusive club!! :p I have the set up for a terrific little conference, right there in the yard or if the weather is yucky, there's the verranda or even the garage...tv, stereo, fireplace, fridge.....you name it we got all the bells and whistles......if you think this might work for you and you are stuck for a meeting place, sigh....oh what the hell......why not....

will run this by my hubby....or not.......he works that day, so it wouldn't be an issue really.....but it's polite to ask him, I guess :p

A good way for all of us to meet...hey, if I don't own a pittie, can I come?? :D

morgiesmommy
September 1st, 2005, 11:52 AM
Wow that is awesome of you to offer! This is not an pittie exclusive club, it is a pittie supporter only club. My dog is not a pittie either, she is a Staffordshire Bull Terrier. If you are willing, my dog is extremely good with other dogs. There isn't an aggressive bone in her body. It would be great for your dogs to come play as well (as long as the other attendees are ok with other dogs too but I assume so seeing as they want a playdate).
That Saturday sounds good to me. Email my address and we can discuss it further, that goes for anyone interested.

love my dogs
September 1st, 2005, 11:58 AM
lezzer you rock! Thanks so much for the offer!! I can't get over how compassionate you are toward pitties even though you don't have one!

I see in another thread you sent in your letter to LFP. I haven't seen todays paper....was it printed? Probably not that fast though right?

Did you read mine? I have not sent it yet. Maybe I'll write 2 or 3 and you guys pick the best.

lezzpezz
September 1st, 2005, 11:59 AM
Well Rosie will have to go visiting the neighbour for sure! She's grumpy, plain and simple :p around female dogs....She loves boys, though!! Might be simpler to let my dogs go play with the neighbours' dogs for a while, as they love visiting there, and we can concentrate on the work at hand and let your dogs goof off. Might introduce my guys to your guys slowly, so we can play that one by ear.....

What do you guys think and how many dogs are we having join in?? Oooh! this sounds cool :cool: if it is a good solution for all.....

Georgiapeaches
September 1st, 2005, 12:50 PM
Lezzer, that is so nice of you to offer a place to meet and have our doggies play and go over the presentations. You are an :angel: Count me in, if that is alright.
I saw the Londoner yesterday and the nice comments people made about your letter, great job!!! :thumbs up I hope the on gets printed in the LFP.

I was at UWO this morning buying textbooks and I heard a couple of girls that were sitting down reading the paper with a pitbull picture in it saying, "Oh is that what a pitbull looks like? I didn't know what they looked like. I want one. They don't look mean!" I think some people are finally opening up their eyes that it is not the dogs...hopefully.

Morgiesmommy, I love staffies. I know a women in London who has two and will also be presenting at the London meeting. I've only ever met two which are hers and they are so beautiful.

morgiesmommy
September 1st, 2005, 12:59 PM
Lezzer, I will make sure to keep you updated when I get replies. I have asked people to send a message to my e-mail (cparkie@hotmail.com) get contact info that way and it stays confidential rather than being broadcast. I will be sure to reply with my contact information and then we can sort out the details. I would love to get a few little friends for Morg to play with! After October my backyard will be a great playdate place.
I love the fact that you guys are writing the LFP. I wrote an opinion letter that was published last week on Saturday asking the councilors to go down and look at the faces of the pitties they have forced into homelessness and inevitably to be put to sleep at the pound.
As for the pre-meeting get together, I think it will be great to get to know eachother and to get prepared ahead of time.
Georgia, Connors Schwinn, Bulllover, Me and Kayla, You guys want to come out?

BullLover
September 1st, 2005, 02:04 PM
Keep me posted. As far as I know, I don't have anything planned yet. I might regret bringing a dog though. My puppy likes to chew on other dogs ears.... :) If I come, I'll bring her though. Maybe I'll get everyone to tape their poochies ears back for the day. Or if I bring Brutus, be prepared to be knocked over. He's pretty tall. Hey, my dogs might not fall into the "pitbull" category....Haha. Guess it's not a pitbull club, just a might be pitbull club.

love my dogs
September 1st, 2005, 03:04 PM
Don't worry bullover- Duke likes to nibble too,.... and having his ears nibbled....I think it's a grooming thing, either that or because I always pulled on his ears when he was a little puppy, he thinks it is normal. He does it to Daisy all the time and she doesn't seem to mind.....I pulled her ears too!!

lezzpezz
September 1st, 2005, 03:16 PM
Love my dogs, I just sent in the letter today, and sometimes they don't even print everything they receive, as they likely receive hundreds. Everyone has sumthin' to say!! I've sent so many, they likely put mine in the rubbish pile :rolleyes:

It quite often takes a few days for a letter to appear, and I'm in no rush!

Do show us your letters and we can take a boo and see how great they are!! :thumbs up

love my dogs
September 1st, 2005, 08:16 PM
I sent my letter today also. Here it is. I tried to cut some words out because in the paper it says they will not take letters with over 200 words.....that is sooooo hard for me. I still don't think I got it under the 200, but I came close. Oh well. Maybe next time!

Dear Editor,

It amazes me how there continues to be such strong negative and discriminatory opinions about pitbulls.


J. Kirby Inwood wrote this about all pitbulls "the animal is not just biting. It is trying to kill." Ridiculous comments such as this, fill the minds of readers with visions of evil and vicious dogs.

This reader apparently has the ability to read minds and has also apparently read every pitbulls's mind to discover each dog's intention every time it bites. Not likely.

Then there was another letter to editor. (Roger H. Foord) thinks that training a pit bull to be "mean" makes "mean" a genetic trait in all subsequent offspring, yet he does not apply this theory of genetics to German Shepherds. Instead, he explains that German Shepherds are inherently gentle dogs, who when trained to attack, "their high need to please their owners will lead them to exceed their natural instinct." Now that is really ridiculous.

The saddest part is that the bad owners, who have abandoned their abused and misused pitbulls throughout London, are aware (as Mr. Foord has advertised) that German Shepherds also make excellent attack dogs, and can be trained to disregard their naturally gentle instinct. So we have increased the danger to society on 2 fronts, because we now have abused and neglected pitbulls (that's the kind that are unstable) at large, and a whole new breed of dogs being abused, neglected and trained to attack..



Worst of all, is that it seems so many have reverted to something that I thought we had finally moved on from: discrimination!

Pitbulls are just like any other dog. With love, affection and proper training they make wonderful family pets. With abuse, neglect and an unstable environment, they will be unpredictable.

morgiesmommy
September 2nd, 2005, 07:47 AM
Cripes! I just heard from Betty that my speaking time is 5:25. Do you guys have your times yet? I am nervous now.

lezzpezz
September 2nd, 2005, 07:54 AM
Love my dogs...GREAT LETTER! It's factual and gets your points across clearly :thumbs up

MorgiesMom! You'll do fine.....don't panick. Go about your day to day life and you will be okay. You are not first up, by the looks of it. Does the meeting start at 4p.m.? If so, you will be able to listen to several other speakers and learn from them. You will have time to compose yourself. Just GO GET 'EM!! :highfive:

lezzpezz
September 2nd, 2005, 08:08 AM
Oh boy.... :rolleyes:

Don't let minority derail pit-bull ban

The people of Ontario have spoken: We don't want pit bulls in our province. We don't need some very small minority group, with their lawyer, dictating to the majority what laws are going to be in place. Clayton Ruby would be the first in line to sue the government, if and when another child is attacked, for "not" enacting this law.

Owners and breeders should take a long hard look in the mirror before they start blaming everything and everybody for this dilemma.

All you other dog owners with aggressive breeds had better watch what you wish for, or you might just find yourselves in this same predicament.

K. W. Jones

London

BullLover
September 2nd, 2005, 09:22 AM
I don't want to speak (well would have a problem). But I would like to be in the room. Are there going to be any seats available? Or should I say that I'm going to speak so I can get in and listen?

Georgiapeaches
September 2nd, 2005, 10:06 AM
I just found out my time is 5:10 to speak. :eek:

Lezzer, I saw that opinion.... :mad: he is already hinting at the end his desire for more breeds to be targeted :evil:

love my dogs
September 2nd, 2005, 10:47 AM
Yep, got mine too....it's 5:35pm! I'm nervous too, but I live for this stuff.....I'm the queen of debates. I'm not a lawyer, but I represented my hubby in a custody/support battle against his ex! I know, family law is not the same as animal rights....or whatever this falls under. I'll do my best....not much time to prepare, and not much time to speak! Think....think... we need to approach on several angles. VERY important to come across as normal, law abiding, tax paying citizens, this will give weight to our opinions. I think in our intros we should describe ourselves similar to as on a resume.

EX: I have owned and operated my own business in London since March 1998, when I began as a young entreprenuer at the age of 21. I volunteer my time to the Canadian Youth Business Foundation, a program housed by Youth Oppertunities Unlimited, and designed to assist young aspiring business owners who want to start a business within London.
I am married with 2 step children, and 2 dogs, and take my responsibilties for both very seriously. I love both children and animals. My position comes from my desire for a safe community for our children and our animals...........blah blah....blah....

Ok sorry, I was on a roll, anyway, I also read that stupid opinion today in LFP.....I live in Ontario, and I don't remember being asked for, or giving my opinion on the ban. And why is the paper printing that hogwash.....well, the writer sound threatened anyway, or he wouldn't have worded it that way.

morgiesmommy
September 2nd, 2005, 11:10 AM
Bullover, the more supporters we have the better. get your butt to that meeting :) . Georgia I hate to say it but I am glad you are before me.
Georgia Lezzer and Bull, I need you guys to e-mail me so we can get together next weekend for the puppy playdate/pre meeting pep rally. cparkie@hotmail.com. love my dogs, got your e-mail and have responded. When I get everyones I will do a group e-mail with details.

Georgiapeaches
September 2nd, 2005, 11:28 AM
morgiesmommy, I sent you an email! I think I am one of the first ones as the public input meeting starts at 5 pm, the actual etc meeting starts at 4 pm.
It is in the same room as it was last fall :( so people should make sure they get there a little bit early. Not a lot of room. Janet Rice did tell me that anyone on the list to speak will definitely be allowed in the room.

BullLover
September 2nd, 2005, 11:36 AM
Oh, no worries. I'll definately be going, but I don't like public speaking. That's why I was wondering if I could go, but not speak. I mean, will I be able to get in?

morgiesmommy
September 2nd, 2005, 11:52 AM
If you go early enough you should be able to, worse case scenario you can stand outside with my husband. He will be bringing Morgie to represent herself. I have heard a few others will be attending just to protest outside. He also plans on bringing the "find the pitty" game and challenging people with it. Cause if the councillors can't tell what dog is a pitty then how the hell can they put a ban out on them? How can they tell if my dog is a very short boxer or a mini mastiff or a staffie? What if I license her and tell them she is an english bull dog, will they be able to tell?
Sorry, I am starting to rant here. Man this ticks me off.
Georgia, got your e-mail and responded. Thank you!

love my dogs
September 2nd, 2005, 12:13 PM
YES bring the game, great idea! My hubby guessed 3 times before he got it, and we have one...duh!

I find pitties all look different anyway, check out jr42's pic on the thread: the worst week of my life!

My 1st thought was how they are soooo different, how would anyone know they were the same breed? the big guy could be a choco lab!

lezzpezz
September 3rd, 2005, 08:27 AM
I have emailed my info to MorgiesMom for her to share with those interested in coming for a pep rally! Coffee will be on! Hope to see you all there!

By the way, signs posted at FIDO park re: dogs being ill. Will check press for a release.....

love my dogs
September 3rd, 2005, 09:39 AM
Thanks again lezzer. I'm really looking forward to our bow wow -pow wow!!

Oh, by the way.....I do have a little concern about your pool. Duke is a fish and I'm afraid he will bee line for your pool. He's never been around a pool, but ponds and rivers are literally magnets to him. Is your pool fenced in seperate from the yard? If not, I guess it will be a good training oppertunity.

lezzpezz
September 3rd, 2005, 09:48 AM
Pool has a fence around it as does the pond. No access for dogs ;)

babyrocky1
September 3rd, 2005, 01:16 PM
Hey, you Londoners all Rock!!! Amazing letters, all of you...your all going to be great! And a dog party to kick it all of!!!!! :highfive: Its amazing watching you guys meet and organize on-line and now you will knock em dead together at the meeting!!! And your doing this for everyone of us. Every victory or defeat effects all of us, so thank you soooo much for your hard work ! :grouphug:

Georgiapeaches
September 3rd, 2005, 01:46 PM
Yay, Lezzer you are awsome! This is really nice of you.

Is there anything anyone would like me to bring?

lezzpezz
September 3rd, 2005, 01:55 PM
I love that name!! And thanks for the uplifting words, Babyrock1! They mean alot!
I am quite looking forward to our bow wow pow wow :p and hopefully someone we can get pictures and someone amongst us can scan them in for you all to see!! It is quite exciting! I told my hubby that some folks will be meeting at our house to discuss the Sept. 12 meeting and bringing their dogs....no big over-reaction....which is good! He is actually quite up on the goings on of BSL etc. and very supportive of we are trying to do. He is just a bit of a fussbudget when it comes to "change"......I :love: him though !!

Anywho, here's the latest suggestions from my LDOA President for those of us speaking at the meeting. Unfortunately, I cannot attend as I am stuck working....I can't ask for more time off as I missed most of this past week due to my mother's health.....but I will be there in spirit and expect a full update after the meeting!!

Here's her advice:

I think it is a great idea they practice before the 12th. I am scheduled (to speak on Sept. 12) for 5:05pm. There are a couple of important things to remember,

First: Do not talk about the law; the ban is a provincial matter and if they start to oppose the law, their whole speech will fall on deaf ears. We know we don't like it but that is a different fight at a different level of government.

Second: make sure they can back what they say. If they are presenting stats, make sure they have it in writing with them.

Third: No matter how much we don't like what the city is doing, if you start to bad mouth the city, the speech will not mean a thing. Keep it professional !!!

After dealing with the city on different dog related items, I am starting to figure out how they work.

I am just very nervous that someone will go in their half-cocked and ruin it for everyone.

So folks, get out your pencils and get writing. Make any needed changes you need to, using the above advice as a reference. The President is Beth Sayler and she has presented many times, so she knows of what she speaks! No slamming the city, (too hard :p )

love my dogs
September 3rd, 2005, 04:17 PM
Thanks lezzer -for the tips.

Also remember that if you have any stats or statements from experts, or affidavits, that you plan on refering to in your speeches, they need to be on paper and handed in on FRIDAY Sept. 9th!

Conners
September 7th, 2005, 03:30 AM
I just got back from holidays and wondered why I hadn't received an apply, so checked my junk mail and there it was. I'm speaking at 5:30 p.m. on September 12, 2005. Now I'm shaking. :eek:
I've got to read all the posts I've missed since I got back, but will do that tomorrow as it's late.
Sure hope I'm ready for this. Has anyone else got their speaking times and does anyone know when it starts? :confused:

morgiesmommy
September 7th, 2005, 07:33 AM
Hey everyone, the day is getting closer and the knot in my stomach is getting bigger! I have sent those of you who e-mailed me the details of the puppy playdate. Anyone else who may be interested in attending a bow wow pow wow in preparation for Monday's meetings please send me an e-mail. Looking forward to meeting everyone!

BullLover
September 7th, 2005, 07:39 AM
Hey Conners:

Welcome back from vacation. I need one too! Coming to the playdate? If so, email morgiesmommy :queen:

lezzpezz
September 7th, 2005, 08:40 AM
Good day! Just a note that MorgiesMom sent out the email stating that playdate would be Sunday, but I had suggested Saturday. Saturday is much better for me!

Did anyone see the terrific full page letter in today's Londoner? Written by Mindy Willis, owner of the Mindful Body Yoga studio. HEY! I never got my picture in the paper!! Oh well.....

She is really ticked that she is now on the defensive end of the leash re: BSL, as she the owner of a pb and has been having great difficulties in her neighbourhood with a leash free dog and it's nasty owner! There have been threats made and now Mindy is ready to speak out, and has, quite eloquently, in this article.

I am going to email her at her studio to see what's what and let her know of the Sept. 12 meeting that she may wish to attend. Likely too late to get on the speakers list, but it's worth a shot....

lezzpezz
September 7th, 2005, 08:46 AM
Yay, Lezzer you are awsome! This is really nice of you.

Is there anything anyone would like me to bring?


If you want to, bring some Timbits! I hear dogs like those!!

Me and Kayla
September 7th, 2005, 09:07 AM
Did anyone see the terrific full page letter in today's Londoner? Written by Mindy Willis, owner of the Mindful Body Yoga studio. HEY! I never got my picture in the paper!! Oh well.....

..


I looked for it lesserpezzer but couldn't find it anywhere. Do you have a link?

Thanks

Me and Kayla

lezzpezz
September 7th, 2005, 09:19 AM
I looked for it lesserpezzer but couldn't find it anywhere. Do you have a link?

Thanks

Me and Kayla


The website for the Londoner is www.thelondoner.ca, but they still have last weeks issue on the site. You can grab a Londoner at several boxes on city curbs or if you are lucky, it'll be in your mailbox. What part of London do you live in? I have a list of Londoner boxes around the city.....

morgiesmommy
September 7th, 2005, 09:40 AM
Sorry about that Lezzer, I was thinking Saturday and typing Sunday. Saturday at noon. I will re-send the e-mail with corrections in case anyone misses this posting.
Tim bits sound awesome, the only time I get my lazy dog to move from her comfy passenger seat when I am driving is if I hit Tim Horton's. Then she jumps right up and perches herself right on my lap. She is a strong little bugger too, If she doesn't want to move it is like trying to move a boulder. I will bring some treats too.
Well I should get back to work, I have a lazy staffie at home sleeping the day away in my bed and likely under my blankets that I need to support.

Me and Kayla
September 7th, 2005, 10:54 AM
The website for the Londoner is www.thelondoner.ca, but they still have last weeks issue on the site. You can grab a Londoner at several boxes on city curbs or if you are lucky, it'll be in your mailbox. What part of London do you live in? I have a list of Londoner boxes around the city.....

I don't live in London. Torontonian here. Was just interested in reading the article. Guess I will have to wait til they change the site. :(

Georgiapeaches
September 7th, 2005, 11:02 AM
oops...edit double post

Georgiapeaches
September 7th, 2005, 11:03 AM
I will bring a box of plain Timbits :D and something for all of us :)
I haven't been on much this week, I currently have a pitbull that had to be pulled urgently Sunday morning and he is staying here. He is heading down to North Carolina in a week to go to his forever home. He has been a great houseguest :)

I am going to see if I get the Londoner today, I'd love to see that article.

lezzpezz
September 7th, 2005, 11:17 AM
Well I called and had a loooonnnnggg chat with Mindy. She has lots to unload when it comes to BSL and it's unfairness. I directed her to this thread and to the Sept. 12 meeting and she or her fiance will try to get on the list. Likely him, as she has an appointment right smack dab in the middle (7 p.m.) of the meeting. She is fired up and ready to fight! :highfive: I just hope there is room left for added speakers, but in all likelyhood, those of you that got the call were the lucky ones :thumbs up

Hey, how goes the speech writing anyway? Any samples you care to run by us??? :)

love my dogs
September 7th, 2005, 11:32 AM
Connors, are you coming to the bow wow pow wow? Let me know if you need a ride.

By the way, I was reading over the agenda, and they have decided not to add the multiple dwelling thing, so you are ok there.

My speech, well.....I haven't really started :confused: . My head is spinning. There is so much to say in 5 minutes. Where to start?

lezzer- I've also spoken to Yvette from Awesomedogs (trainer and owner), she also has a spot to speak on the 12th (6:10). I just invited her to attend on Sat too, hope you don't mind! I have not heard back from her on that yet, but I'll let you know. I'm coming for sure though!!!!

I also know Mindy, and can't wait to read her article. She is a ball of energy and determination!!

Georgiapeaches
September 7th, 2005, 11:57 AM
By the way, I was reading over the agenda, and they have decided not to add the multiple dwelling thing, so you are ok there.

I noticed they didn't add that restriction in the proposal. But, it states, Should council wish to include a condition that pit-bulls not be kept or harboured in the multiple dwelling or lodging house, the by-law would have to be changed to reflect this.

Does this mean they could just add it in quietly whenever they wish to?? If so, they are pretty sneaky!

BullLover
September 7th, 2005, 12:18 PM
Can someone ad something for me on their speech? Since I'm not speaking, I would like the City to know that I have at least 5 unleashed dogs that walk around my neighbourhood every day. Two are extremely well trained Golden Retrievers, which I have no problem with but the others....One is a Yappie Yorkie, which my dogs love to jump at the door to get at him. The other is a Shi tshu (however you spell that), and the other one is a small terrier type also. I am concerned, because small terriers bite children also....I also am being a little bit vindictive as my guys are having a hard time adapting to no more loose runs at night in my hood.

love my dogs
September 7th, 2005, 12:42 PM
funny you should mention the loose dog problem.

One of my close friends lives a couple doors down from a jack russle, and a rotti, which are both let out the front door to freely do their business anywhere they like. As you might imagine, my friend finds business on her front yard, and in her driveway on a regular basis. It is left up to her to clean the business, as the owner does not bother.

My friend is also concerned with her 3yr old child, who rides her trike in the driveway, and is nervous around dogs.

Although all the other neighbours are annoyed as well, nobody wants to call the authorities because there is also a lot of Harley Davidson action at this house, and the community is afraid.

I'd like to know how Duke wearing a muzzle, and me paying a hefty dog licence fee will make my friend feel any safer.

Conners
September 7th, 2005, 12:44 PM
Connors, are you coming to the bow wow pow wow? Let me know if you need a ride.

By the way, I was reading over the agenda, and they have decided not to add the multiple dwelling thing, so you are ok there.
bow wow pow wow? yowey! i guess that means bring the dogs? Am I right? I have to do some catching up! LOL When is it? And yes I'd like to come. Where is it? and I'm at Huron & Highbury, so if it's far from there then I would need a ride as I can't take public transit due to phobia's and can only bike.
How did you get the agenda? If it's through email I better check my junk folder and see if it's there too? Now I'm nervous. I feel like I've been left behind due to the camping trip and everything is happening so fast now. :eek:

Schwinn
September 7th, 2005, 12:45 PM
I agree, victims of dog bites deserve compensation. How many pitbull bites have thier been in London? How about bites by other dogs? So, you only deserve compensation if it is from a pitbull. I've said it before, I'll say it again, the dog that ripped half of my sister's face off (literally, she lost part of her lip) wasn't a pitbull, wasn't even part pitbull. I guess she wouldn't deserve compensation then, eh?

Anyone to feel free what I posted earlier, because I'd really like an answer to this one.

Conners
September 7th, 2005, 12:54 PM
Can someone ad something for me on their speech? Since I'm not speaking, I would like the City to know that I have at least 5 unleashed dogs that walk around my neighbourhood every day. Two are extremely well trained Golden Retrievers, which I have no problem with but the others....One is a Yappie Yorkie, which my dogs love to jump at the door to get at him. The other is a Shi tshu (however you spell that), and the other one is a small terrier type also. I am concerned, because small terriers bite children also....I also am being a little bit vindictive as my guys are having a hard time adapting to no more loose runs at night in my hood.
Theres a bull terrier that runs loose. he comes to visit Shasta. Problem is the owner tells me he snaps and is unperdicable. He's an unaltered male and of course wants to sniff Shasta's butt, which he totally dislikes.
I told her that and she sais, she'll let him know. Yeah! Then she calls the Humaine Society on me right?! She's the loose brick in the wall if you catch my drift. Plus, it's ok I pick up after Shasta, but don't see why I have to pick up after HER dog. She only hears what she wants to hear.
My Shasta can't run free and there is a bylaw saying dogs can't run loose (so our nite time play times have been cancelled permanently, yet other people of smaller dogs don't think that applies to them. grrrr.... I'll add it to mine as I'm having a simular problem.

love my dogs
September 7th, 2005, 01:08 PM
schwinn- gee, I don't know what to say, except that you are right.

If I were injured in a car accident, I would want compensation regardless or whether the car was red or blue, Ford or Honda. If the driver was drunk or sober.....it wouldn't change that I was injured and still need to be compensated for medical bills, lost work, etc.

When I was a child, I was attacked by a poodle who took a chunk from my leg. In Ontario, everything is covered by OHIP, and the offending dog was our neighbour's, and well......I probably should not have been teasing the poor thing. Anyway, all in all my parent's did not make a big fuss about it. So that is one non pit attack that was never reported.

My dad often complains about crazy German Shepherd type dogs that scare the crap out of him when he rides his bike through the country. He has been "nearly attacked" countless times by these dogs who sit at the end of the lane with no leash or fence, and run out at anyone who dares to ride a bike down the road.
So if he were attacked, while riding his bike.......there would be no compensation, unless of course it was a pittie doing the attacking.

Well, I guess it is a better investment to have a shepherd instead of a pittie for an attack dog, since it would not cost you as much when he attacks.

lezzpezz
September 7th, 2005, 01:32 PM
Geez, you sound so excited!! :p We will be glad to have you along. I think that MorgiesMom is willing to give you a lift. I had told her roughly where you live about a week ago when this was in the planning stages, as you had mentioned your area of town in a previous post. Gotcha covered! Figured you might need a ride.....

So, Saturday around noon it is! The coffee will be on! Bring your pencils and erasers and let's get busy....oh yes....and your dogs :rolleyes:

Conners
September 7th, 2005, 03:09 PM
Anyone to feel free what I posted earlier, because I'd really like an answer to this one.
I'm sorry to hear about your sister and that's an EXCELLENT question! They are so busy targetting the pit bulls, that the other serious attacks don't seem to matter.
I think that should be a question put to the City Hall meeting, plus the GHABTC/DLCC and I will email them promply with that question. They may need you to write some form of letter to give to Clayton Ruby regarding the amendments to Bill 132. It's letters like that, that will show that other breeds of dogs cause physical and emotional harm with no compensation. Targetting pit owners isn't going to change that and the other victims don't get compensation because it's not a pit bull.
I think unfortunately for your sister, that this turns the table on Michael Byrant's new law and opens up a whole new can of worms. I will see what I can do and get back to you.

Schwinn
September 7th, 2005, 03:39 PM
This actually happened a little over 25 years ago, so there's no need to worry about her now, but I always use that example when people talk about "the scurge of the pitbull". They always talk about little kids having thier faces ripped off, but she's the only one I would classify as losing part of her face. She went several years with a very large lump on her lip where it was sewn back together (she lost half of it). She later had plastic surgery on it (I think when she was 8), and now the only remnents of that attack is the fact that she freezes up when she sees a stray dog. She was quite nervous of Daisy at first, and when Daisy gets excited and jumps, she gets nervous, but she's actually quite fond of Daisy now. I have had to put myself between her and a dog walking off-leash while riding on trails on several occasions, but I guess that's her being paranoid since they were never pitbulls.

I think that's the best example I can give that shows that we need to do something about dog attacks in general. Otherwise, fifteen years from now, we'll be fighting for the next "dog de jour".

Anyway, my whole point was that if someone wanted to use that, they are more than welcome (I'm not sure what the heck I was typing, but it didn't come out right up above).

BullLover
September 7th, 2005, 04:00 PM
i live at oxford and highbury conners....

Conners
September 7th, 2005, 04:22 PM
This actually happened a little over 25 years ago, so there's no need to worry about her now, but I always use that example when people talk about "the scurge of the pitbull". They always talk about little kids having thier faces ripped off, but she's the only one I would classify as losing part of her face. She went several years with a very large lump on her lip where it was sewn back together (she lost half of it). She later had plastic surgery on it (I think when she was 8), and now the only remnents of that attack is the fact that she freezes up when she sees a stray dog. She was quite nervous of Daisy at first, and when Daisy gets excited and jumps, she gets nervous, but she's actually quite fond of Daisy now. I have had to put myself between her and a dog walking off-leash while riding on trails on several occasions, but I guess that's her being paranoid since they were never pitbulls.

I think that's the best example I can give that shows that we need to do something about dog attacks in general. Otherwise, fifteen years from now, we'll be fighting for the next "dog de jour".

Anyway, my whole point was that if someone wanted to use that, they are more than welcome (I'm not sure what the heck I was typing, but it didn't come out right up above).
You're right! It IS an excellent example to bring up! And still after all these years, she is still effected by her fear of large dogs. It's a perfect one for the Ontario Pit bull law too, as that's one of the amendments we're fighting for.
OH! You just gave me a light bulb moment. I MUST bring my petitions to the bow wow pow wow.
How do you go about getting the agenda for the City Hall meeting?

Conners
September 7th, 2005, 05:01 PM
i live at oxford and highbury conners....
Lezzerpezzer and Morgiesmom already discussed about me getting a ride while I was away on holidays. (how thoughful!) So I already messaged Morgiesmom the way to my place. But it's so sweet of you to offer. WOW! I don't get offers like this when it comes to other things, so you have no idea how happy these offers make me feel. Thank you!!!!! :grouphug:

BullLover
September 7th, 2005, 11:24 PM
Was that you that Ms. Willis was complementing? Congrats!

Conners
September 8th, 2005, 02:55 AM
Where is everyone getting the agendas from? I don't even know what time the meeting starts. Am I able to get an agenda too? Is it being held in that same room where not everybody fit last time?

morgiesmommy
September 8th, 2005, 07:43 AM
Hey guys,
I don't know why but I don't know how to pick up your messages. I did not get connors message. Also, Connor if you are ok with it, Bullover is very close to you and I am on the other side of the city. I live in whiteoaks. If it is ok with Bullover perhaps she could pick you up? Either way I don't mind but I just figure it may be easier for us all.

Schwinn
September 8th, 2005, 08:29 AM
Since I can't go to London, I have another arguement that anyone who needs to is welcome to use.

People keep saying that, "Well, the pitbull may not attack more than other dogs, but when it does, it is more devastating". My argument is that airplanes don't crash more than other methods of transportation, but when they do, more people die. Should we eliminate airplanes? Some would argue that we need to fly, we don't need to have pitbulls. I would agree. We don't need pitbulls--to the same extent we don't need other breeds of dogs.

The incidence of number of people mauled by pitbulls overall is very, very low. The incidence of people being bitten by dogs is fairly high. The incidence of planes crashing is very low, while the incidence of cars crashing is very high. Shouldn't we be more concerned with overall safety than the off chance someone will be hurt by one breed?

Also, the arguement is that these dogs WILL snap, and when they do, you can't stop them. How come there are not a LOT more attacks, a LOT more injuries? Toronto has an estimated 28 000 pitbulls. In the last year, there was approximately 10 (I'm guesstimating. If someone has a better idea of numbers, please add it here) alleged pitbull attacks (some which have been argued where not actually attacks). That is less than .01 % Shouldn't a dog that is said to snap, to go off and not be trusted, have a lot higher incidence of attacks? And that's just incidence of attacks compared to other pitbulls. What does that say for number of incidences among ALL dogs??

lezzpezz
September 8th, 2005, 09:09 AM
Where is everyone getting the agendas from? I don't even know what time the meeting starts. Am I able to get an agenda too? Is it being held in that same room where not everybody fit last time?

The agenda should be available when you get to the meeting. They usually have a table at the front with a stack of them for the public to pick up. I suggest our group get there early and grab on and share it amongst yourselves, as they may not print nearly enough.

I have the agenda from the last meeting and you can see this on Saturday.

I think the meeting starts at 4 p.m. but they may cover other issues before they launch into the dog stuff. It will be held in the larger room that houses a few hundred, including in the upper galley. But get there early!!

lezzpezz
September 8th, 2005, 09:12 AM
Since I can't go to London, I have another arguement that anyone who needs to is welcome to use.

People keep saying that, "Well, the pitbull may not attack more than other dogs, but when it does, it is more devastating". My argument is that airplanes don't crash more than other methods of transportation, but when they do, more people die. Should we eliminate airplanes? Some would argue that we need to fly, we don't need to have pitbulls. I would agree. We don't need pitbulls--to the same extent we don't need other breeds of dogs.

The incidence of number of people mauled by pitbulls overall is very, very low. The incidence of people being bitten by dogs is fairly high. The incidence of planes crashing is very low, while the incidence of cars crashing is very high. Shouldn't we be more concerned with overall safety than the off chance someone will be hurt by one breed?

Also, the arguement is that these dogs WILL snap, and when they do, you can't stop them. How come there are not a LOT more attacks, a LOT more injuries? Toronto has an estimated 28 000 pitbulls. In the last year, there was approximately 10 (I'm guesstimating. If someone has a better idea of numbers, please add it here) alleged pitbull attacks (some which have been argued where not actually attacks). That is less than .01 % Shouldn't a dog that is said to snap, to go off and not be trusted, have a lot higher incidence of attacks? And that's just incidence of attacks compared to other pitbulls. What does that say for number of incidences among ALL dogs??

have printed this off and will discuss this on Sat. and squeeze it in somewhere!! :p

Schwinn
September 8th, 2005, 09:27 AM
Please don't feel obligated. I'm just posting random thoughts through my head (that pertain to this. You don't want the other stuff, trust me! :crazy: ) If someone can use it, it's there. But I don't want to see anyone cut out what they want to say just for lil' ol' me!

lezzpezz
September 8th, 2005, 09:56 AM
Was that you that Ms. Willis was complementing? Congrats!

Who?? WHat???When??Where?? How?? Did I miss something??

lezzpezz
September 8th, 2005, 09:58 AM
Please don't feel obligated. I'm just posting random thoughts through my head (that pertain to this. You don't want the other stuff, trust me! :crazy: ) If someone can use it, it's there. But I don't want to see anyone cut out what they want to say just for lil' ol' me!


We may have a lot of overlap of thoughts and it is good to have a bunch of fresh angles to present. Things that may not have been thought of by anyone else. Keep your thinking cap on! :party:

BullLover
September 8th, 2005, 10:18 AM
In the Londoner. In the article, Ms. Willis said something like, Yvette Van Veen (sorry about spelling) talks about pets and about a letter that was previously written in. I think she's talking about your letter. That's what I meant by congrats. I believe she says it in the first or second paragraph.

lezzpezz
September 8th, 2005, 10:57 AM
Oh that letter! Thank you! I still don't see my letter in the FreePress though! Guess it was too pro-pitty!

love my dogs
September 8th, 2005, 11:14 AM
here is the link to the agenda from the last meeting. This contains the proposed bylaw.

http://council.london.ca/Environment%20and%20Transportation%20Committee%20A gendas/2005-08-22%20Agenda/1item%2020.pdf (http://)

Here is another interesting link I found....a list of those for and against the provincial ban, as at the public hearing.

http://www.brok.ca/pdf%20files/Bill132PublicHearingSummary.pdf (http://)

Schwinn, you have some great points....if we use those types of references, we need numbers to back it up. I know that there are approx 750 licenced pitties in London, and no guess as to how many unlicenced. Does anyone know the ratio of pit attacks V other dog attacks (in London)?

Lezzer is not Yvette, that I know for sure. Also, Yvette will not be coming on Sat., as she is meeting with another group already. She did, however give us some great tips.....I'll post, and bring on Sat.

morgiesmommy
September 8th, 2005, 11:22 AM
Can Someone please tell me how to get messages on here? I am feeling technically challenged today.

BullLover
September 8th, 2005, 11:28 AM
Yeah, my Free Press letter wasn't put in either. But I sort of wasn't expecting it, just like I'm not expecting a letter back from Hitler (Bryant).

morgiesmommy
September 8th, 2005, 02:59 PM
I learned an interesting fact today.
There is a person in this city, she is the person whom holds the most power when it comes to what happens in our city. She is the person that I hold personally responsible for the citie's reaction to the news of the proposed ammendments to our city by-laws. The reaction that I speak of is the average family, with average income panicking over the potential massive fees and insurance costs that loom ahead and dropping off the family pet at the pound. The pound that is SUPPOSED to find new homes for those that cannot help themselves, but cannot do so for these particular doggies because there is a provincial by-law scaring the hell out of everyone, and no one will adopt them. The final result of which is a massive execution of our cities pit bulls.
This person, who is responsible, and I think we have all figured out that I am talking about Anne Marie DeCicco....CONSIDERS HERSELF A VEGETARIAN!!!!!!
Are you freaking kidding me??? What a JOKE!!!!!!

lezzpezz
September 8th, 2005, 03:17 PM
Huh...who knew.....what shall we do with this info?

Conners
September 8th, 2005, 03:17 PM
Can Someone please tell me how to get messages on here? I am feeling technically challenged today.
:crazy: Ones from me! I sent you details how to find my place.
Hmmm...I think you just press private messages and it just opens. I should let someone else tell you as I can do things, I just have problems explaining how to do things. Does that make sence?

Conners
September 8th, 2005, 03:22 PM
here is the link to the agenda from the last meeting. This contains the proposed bylaw.

http://council.london.ca/Environment%20and%20Transportation%20Committee%20A gendas/2005-08-22%20Agenda/1item%2020.pdf (http://)

Here is another interesting link I found....a list of those for and against the provincial ban, as at the public hearing.

http://www.brok.ca/pdf%20files/Bill132PublicHearingSummary.pdf (http://)


What do I have to do to open these? I get those refresh pages and make sure you have typed the name properly. I even copied and pasted. no luck. Can I find them the long way in through www.london.com?

lezzpezz
September 8th, 2005, 03:38 PM
Can I find them the long way in through www.london.com?

No...www.london.ca....the other one is a different London, not Ontario.

I tried to click on the links as well, but I think the City is updating at the moment....try in a wee while....

Conners
September 8th, 2005, 03:58 PM
I learned an interesting fact today.
There is a person in this city, she is the person whom holds the most power when it comes to what happens in our city. She is the person that I hold personally responsible for the citie's reaction to the news of the proposed ammendments to our city by-laws. The reaction that I speak of is the average family, with average income panicking over the potential massive fees and insurance costs that loom ahead and dropping off the family pet at the pound. The pound that is SUPPOSED to find new homes for those that cannot help themselves, but cannot do so for these particular doggies because there is a provincial by-law scaring the hell out of everyone, and no one will adopt them. The final result of which is a massive execution of our cities pit bulls.
This person, who is responsible, and I think we have all figured out that I am talking about Anne Marie DeCicco....CONSIDERS HERSELF A VEGETARIAN!!!!!!
Are you freaking kidding me??? What a JOKE!!!!!!
You're killing me! WHERE did you find this tid bit of info??? :eek: And all along I figured Fred Tranquilli was trying to become a 2nd Michael Tyrant Bryant. DeCicco can influence Tranquilli to propose a bylaw so she doesn't look bad come election time? Hmmmm...NOW I'm getting the picture because I heard Tranquilli is going higher in the ranks in Ottawa and won't even be here by the time the bylaw is passed...or if we have our way...KILLED!
Maybe we ought to put meat into her veggie burger that she:evil: !
Boy am I gullible! I keep forgetting we are deaing with politions and not people. :sick:

Conners
September 8th, 2005, 04:02 PM
Can I find them the long way in through www.london.com?

No...www.london.ca....the other one is a different London, not Ontario.

I tried to click on the links as well, but I think the City is updating at the moment....try in a wee while....
My mistake. I meant .ca but typed .com. My fingers don't always do what my brain thinks. Will try again later.

Georgiapeaches
September 8th, 2005, 11:40 PM
I learned an interesting fact today.
There is a person in this city, she is the person whom holds the most power when it comes to what happens in our city. She is the person that I hold personally responsible for the citie's reaction to the news of the proposed ammendments to our city by-laws. The reaction that I speak of is the average family, with average income panicking over the potential massive fees and insurance costs that loom ahead and dropping off the family pet at the pound. The pound that is SUPPOSED to find new homes for those that cannot help themselves, but cannot do so for these particular doggies because there is a provincial by-law scaring the hell out of everyone, and no one will adopt them. The final result of which is a massive execution of our cities pit bulls.
This person, who is responsible, and I think we have all figured out that I am talking about Anne Marie DeCicco....CONSIDERS HERSELF A VEGETARIAN!!!!!!
Are you freaking kidding me??? What a JOKE!!!!!!

This doesn't surprise me. Considering she had been approached to possibly take Pat O'Brians spot and run for the Fib's, it also doesn't surprise me she is behind the whole scam of a proposal.

Edited: Oh yes, she refused the offer because she will be running AGAIN for mayor :mad:

morgiesmommy
September 9th, 2005, 12:35 PM
I have been struggling all day not to make a comment in my speach while I edit it about the vegetarian dog killer. I found out about this because a girl I work with used to order lunches for the board while they were in meetings etc. I just about choked when she said that.
Lets hope Tranquilli is actually paying attention to our speaches this time. I have heard last time he was too busy looking at his watch and the door to pay attention to what was being said.

lezzpezz
September 9th, 2005, 01:16 PM
My pres. last night could not stress enough that our speeches should not go after the provincial law, as that is a done deal. Don't even go there. The chair will shut you down.

She also said that you should focus on how the city plans to enforce the proposed London restrictions, such as muzzling, licencing, added insurance, fines etc.

Just some last minute suggestions....

By the way, I was approached by a few execs of the London Dog Owners' Association, (the group I'm involved with and am also on the exec.) and asked if I would like to be the next President! :queen: Holy Crapola! :eek: Said I'd think about that one!!

Luvmypit
September 9th, 2005, 01:23 PM
Lezzer I don't know one better person for the job!

lezzpezz
September 9th, 2005, 02:13 PM
Thank you, Luvmypit.....

I like the current President!!But she's served her 2 year stint and wants to go at the city with both barrels blazing, and needs to step down so that her efforts don't undermine that of the group, (getting more off leash parks). She will be very vocal re: BSL and ACC, but can't as an exec on our group. Everyone scrambled to take up lesser posts, (financial officer, membership secretary etc.,) and then, like sharks, they cornered me and said, "You da man :thumbs up " I was, for the first time in my life, I might add, speechless! :eek:
I don't know if I can fulfill all of required duties, (I work when most city hall meetings fall or when we need to meet with certain folks), and the other
members said that doesn't matter! They want me to do it and be the spokesperson and they will take care of the other stuff I can't do.....I work 2 jobs and have a reeeeaaaallllly full and busy life......this president stuff is very scary!

Conners
September 9th, 2005, 07:45 PM
Naturally it's your call, but you aren't afraid to voice yourself and that's a great trait for prez. I can see why they would want you and although you sound like you already have a hectic scedual (where's spell check when we need one?) it something I'm sure you would be great at just by how you come across here on the board. If they can help you with the other things and you be the voice, is that too much of a time consuming job? Well, I just wanted to congratulate you whether you take the position or not. Wow! President. That IS an honour! :thumbs up

babyrocky1
September 9th, 2005, 07:51 PM
Congratulations Lezzerpezzer, :highfive: Im sure you will be a great pres. should you take the job!

Conners
September 9th, 2005, 07:57 PM
She also said that you should focus on how the city plans to enforce the proposed London restrictions, such as muzzling, licencing, added insurance, fines etc.
I thought that was the reason they were targeting Pit bull owners because of these costs and we would be more than paying for it all as they didn't feel the burden should be put on the other tax payers. The outrages costs and fines will finance all this.

Conners
September 10th, 2005, 10:05 AM
Shasta and I awoke early and already to go :party: and work. Recharged batteries for my digital so you will all see LOTS of pics. I'm so nervous that I've already taken a valuim. If this get together is like this, I can imagine what the actual meeting will be like...but this is an exciting nervous...but panic attacks comes with good and bad, so all prepared. Lots of paper and pens.
Now I wonder if my speach is good at all and wondering if it needs to be totally rewritten. :confused: Probably fear talking but did take a lot of what was send out and incorporated it into my speach. Those will stay but may need to be altered.
I'm so glad we are coming together as a group first. Take all these doubts away from me and know they will help me change it to be a great speach.
If I'm rambling it's because I'm nervous. Nervous and waiting. I look at the clock every 5 minutes.
Well I better get off and make sur I haven't forgotten anything. I'm sure it will be just fine and fun. I also brought plenty of poop bags. Always a must when going out. :crazy: Wish us luck and anyone that believes in prayer, PLEASE think of us today...and specially MONDAY! It's for the dogs! It's for the dogs!
Stay tuned and sure we will all post after the pow wow pow wow. :fingerscr

BoxerRescueMTL
September 10th, 2005, 10:12 AM
I just wanted to say best of luck to all of you :) You will be great!

babyrocky1
September 10th, 2005, 11:55 AM
Good Luck you guys! I know you will all be great....What a team :highfive: :grouphug:

love my dogs
September 10th, 2005, 02:42 PM
well, just got back from the big meeting....wow, what a day!!

Thanks again lezzer!

We may not have gotten a whole lot done, but the dogs had a good time. Some of the gang took pics, so they will probably post them for all to see.

Georgia was a real peach, and sat obediently close to mommy. Morgie had a nap, Shasta gave kisses, Sady jumped on the table, and Duke and Brutus fell in love (don't ask).

Overall, it was a fun and exciting day!!

Conners
September 10th, 2005, 07:16 PM
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6999/762/400/IMG_02321.JPG
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BullLover
September 10th, 2005, 07:18 PM
Yes....Thanks again Lezzer. And to think I was going to leave Brutus at home after we met up with Conners and Shasta. Miss monkey (Sadie) is a handful herself sometimes. You rock! Oh, Love my Dogs, Brutus would like you to tell Duke hi. I know, he's crazy in love. :o

Conners
September 10th, 2005, 07:21 PM
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6999/762/400/IMG_0223.jpg
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Conners
September 10th, 2005, 07:27 PM
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Conners
September 10th, 2005, 07:33 PM
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Conners
September 10th, 2005, 07:38 PM
Lezzer, you are a wonderful lady and we all had a blast. Thanks for inviting us all and now I must go snip, snip...
Notice one pic is missing. It's really cute. I will sent it to you...but not today. I'm exausted from all the fun! Thanks again!

BullLover
September 10th, 2005, 07:47 PM
Conners: Great pics!!!!! Although you do need to crop out my sides. I should have worn a longer shirt. Hahaha! Heck, just crop me out all together. Thanks for the photos. They're great!

Georgiapeaches
September 10th, 2005, 09:33 PM
It was a great afternoon there. Thank you Lezzer :) It gave us some great ideas of what to include and not include and I hope Conners, you feel more confident and know you have support when presenting!!
Lezzer, your home and yard are gorgeous and your dogs are all beautiful, thanks for having us.

psst...crop me outta those pics too :p

Conners
September 11th, 2005, 12:01 AM
There was only one picture that I was asked not to put up...but actually, it's one of my favorites and know it would be one of yours too. :p You guys are all so awesome and I did feel comfortable once nobody jumped on me when Shasta peed on the floor of the patio. Silly girl! Now had you taken a stick and started beating me...it could have been a different story. I appreciate the help I got on my speech and will work on it all day to cut it down somehow. Haven't you noticed? Even my posts are never brief. :D You guys are the greatest and watching the dogs having fun the way they show be having fun, made my heart lift so high I was nearly flying! Where's the tv camera's when you need them? Instead we get a cat watching us. ROL

babyrocky1
September 11th, 2005, 10:49 AM
Great Pitctures you all!!! Looks like you had a great time,,,who is who LOL Its really good that you all got together before the big day, you will feel safer going in knowing your all together!!!!!!

love my dogs
September 11th, 2005, 02:04 PM
I'm so glad you brought your camera conners...the pics are great!

babyrock you asked who is who, so here goes (correct me if I make a mistake guys):

Shasta (smaller red nosed pit with puppy face)is conners dog
Georgia (red girl with black nose sitting by mom) is georgiapeaches' dog
Brutis (big white pit) is bullLover's boy
Sadey (small black dog) is bullLover's baby girl
Duke (larger red nosed pit posing with tongue out) is mine (lovemydogs)

and I don't think Morgie made it in any pics? But she belongs to morgiesmommy and went inside for a nap.

Conners
September 11th, 2005, 05:53 PM
Great Pitctures you all!!! Looks like you had a great time,,,who is who LOL Its really good that you all got together before the big day, you will feel safer going in knowing your all together!!!!!!
Babyrocky, you are so funny. I wish you were there too. The dogs kept us busy and were their natural comical selves. I'm not in any of them as I was snapping pics when we should have been working on our speeches. But as you can tell, I wasn't the only ones.
Who do you mean who was who? The dogs or us?
I learnt something about the speeches I didn't know, so it was so lucky we had this fun meeting. I thought we had 10 minures to talk. Seems we only have 5. This afternoon, my g/f timed my original speech. 14 minutes. aaauuuggghhh! :eek: So I've been clipping, changing and cropping. I 'think' I have it down to 4 minutes, but will have to read it to my g/f again and have her time me. It doesn't take as long when you read it in your head somehow. :confused:
I cried again as I rehersed it even to myself, so that definitely means I need to take a relaxent when I go tomorrow or tears will be streaming down my face. If it wasn't for the dogs, I would have NEVER pushed myself into doing this...but I have to! For the dogs! For the Dogs! For Shasta and her kind! :fingerscr

Conners
September 11th, 2005, 06:00 PM
I'm so glad you brought your camera conners...the pics are great!
and I don't think Morgie made it in any pics? But she belongs to morgiesmommy and went inside for a nap.
I had fun Snapping all the while! LOL You forgot the kitten that was curious what was going on...but smart enough to stay on that roof top and not come down.
And by the time Morgie came out, I think we were actually doing some work for that short time. Now I feel bad I didn't get a pic of her. I'm FIRED!

love my dogs
September 11th, 2005, 06:18 PM
oh yeah, I forgot about the kitty.

I think the kitty is a special agent who works for the City. Somehow they got wind of our pitbull party, and P.I. Kitty was sent to spy on us.

Or, maybe he was just a concerned neighbour, checking up on the sudden increase in the areas pitbull population.

Either way, kitty looked pretty worried.

Don't worry conners, you will do great, and I'm very happy that you are going to tell your story because it is the type of story that will touch their hearts (if they have any).

BullLover
September 11th, 2005, 06:30 PM
Hearts???? That's a good one. They don't have any. Conners, how come you can't put up the one picture? Can you email it to me so I can see it? The pics are great! I stole one to put up Sadie's face (since there wasn't one of Brutus' face, or of both of them together). I'll have to wait until I develop my pics and I'll see about borrowing that scanner Conners, so we can put up mine too!

Conners
September 11th, 2005, 06:53 PM
Hearts???? That's a good one. They don't have any. Conners, how come you can't put up the one picture? Can you email it to me so I can see it? The pics are great! I stole one to put up Sadie's face (since there wasn't one of Brutus' face, or of both of them together). I'll have to wait until I develop my pics and I'll see about borrowing that scanner Conners, so we can put up mine too!
You curious little thing you! Now how can I show you and not the rest? I was told, DON'T YOU DARE! No that about says it all and afterall, I was only a guest, plus she's bigger than me. ROFOL
Let me know when you want them scanned and I'll be happy to ablige (sp?).

gdamadg
September 11th, 2005, 06:58 PM
Where's the tv camera's when you need them?

It probably would have taken away from the relaxed atmosphere, but you could have called them. The press probably would have came. A thought for next time, perhaps.

Goodluck to every one, I feel soo sad for all of you. What all of us in the province have to go through isn't enough, your own City is basically forcing you out. Maybe we should ban politicians from having children and force them out. That is what they are doing to you.

Conners
September 11th, 2005, 10:30 PM
It probably would have taken away from the relaxed atmosphere, but you could have called them. The press probably would have came. A thought for next time, perhaps.

Goodluck to every one, I feel soo sad for all of you. What all of us in the province have to go through isn't enough, your own City is basically forcing you out. Maybe we should ban politicians from having children and force them out. That is what they are doing to you.
I don't think it would have spoilt the atmosphere at all. Matter of fact the positive image would have been great! Just thin, none of these dogs knew each other and yet there was not even one negative incident there. That would have been EXCELLENT coverage...but is that want the public wantsto see, besides dog lovers? No! They would sell more papers with a pit bull attack to add more fuel to the coals.
After being ith the girls yesterday and their dogs, I just got an up feeling about this. I'm scared, yes, but when doubt enters my mind, I remind myself we have a 50% chance at least. And after yesterday, I feel those chances have increased. Don't ask me why, it's just a gut feeling. Someone in city hall has GOT to have a heart somewhere. We just need to find it.

BullLover
September 11th, 2005, 10:35 PM
Good luck to everyone that is speaking tomorrow. I'll see you there!!! :fingerscr

Conners
September 11th, 2005, 10:39 PM
Good luck to everyone that is speaking tomorrow. I'll see you there!!! :fingerscrOH MY GOSH! It's Michael Bryant with a hitler mustache! Quick! Give me big fangs. I will show him what a REAL vicious bite feels like! BullLover...your a nut! LOL See you tomorrow!

Conners
September 11th, 2005, 10:48 PM
Lezzer, if you happen to find lots of keys on a blue thingamabob that lights up with a blue light, I've lost all my keys. The only place thy would be is on the patio if I did lose them there. I had to break in through my window to get in...but not to worry, they are not break in proof even with the wood wedged in and it's handy that I am on the ground floor and only need a patio chair to climb in.

lezzpezz
September 12th, 2005, 10:02 AM
Howdy all! We DID have a great time! The pictures are great!! Conners, I did not find your keys and I have been out there many times, so if they were there, I would have seen them.

The P.I. Kitty is one of mine, Sascha....She's on our side..... :o so no worries. She probably just wondered, "what the heck is going on in my yard! Who are all of these strange dogs! How do I get to my chow bowl now??"

I had a thought for the speeches if someone wants to mention it: Did you notice that the group of pb owners that met were for the mostpart young, female, employed or otherwise not involved in the drug trade or pit bull fighting scene, responsible, intelligent people? Not one male came. Not one stereotypical tough guy, with a vicious spike-collared highstrung aggressive dog. Huh.....imagine that.......5 women with 6 well behaved pit bulls......must be the oddballs out there......NOT!

Best of luck to all of you guys tonight......you'll be fabulous, 'cause you are speaking from the heart, and your kids need you! I'll be with you in spirit.....wringing my hands and wishing I was there!! :o

lezzpezz
September 12th, 2005, 10:04 AM
FYI.....I'm the lady in blue who is hugging Sadie, our little table dancer! It was hilarious when she jumped right up on the table! What a maroon!! :crazy:

Conners
September 12th, 2005, 10:25 AM
Howdy all! We DID have a great time! The pictures are great!! Conners, I did not find your keys and I have been out there many times, so if they were there, I would have seen them.

The P.I. Kitty is one of mine, Sascha....She's on our side..... :o so no worries. She probably just wondered, "what the heck is going on in my yard! Who are all of these strange dogs! How do I get to my chow bowl now??"

I had a thought for the speeches if someone wants to mention it: Did you notice that the group of pb owners that met were for the mostpart young, female, employed or otherwise not involved in the drug trade or pit bull fighting scene, responsible, intelligent people? Not one male came. Not one stereotypical tough guy, with a vicious spike-collared highstrung aggressive dog. Huh.....imagine that.......5 women with 6 well behaved pit bulls......must be the oddballs out there......NOT!

Best of luck to all of you guys tonight......you'll be fabulous, 'cause you are speaking from the heart, and your kids need you! I'll be with you in spirit.....wringing my hands and wishing I was there!! :o
If only we had more time! I could have made a collage out of the pics for a really cool poster.
I'd volunteer to put it in, but I already had to cut, snip and arrange what turned out to be 14 minures to 4. I dare not add anything else. Hopefully one of the others can.
Thanks for looking for the keys. I'm a peanut brain and have no clue where they could be??? Perhaps by the curb where the car was? We searched the car. Bet your Sascha snuck them for making her go without her treats. :rolleyes: You'll be there with us in spirit too Lezzer. Your pretty terrific and due to your get together I made some great people I can call friends.

Georgiapeaches
September 12th, 2005, 11:38 AM
What time is everyone planning to go this afternoon?? I know the public input meeting starts at 5 but just curious to see when everyone will trinkle in?

Conners
September 12th, 2005, 11:42 AM
What time is everyone planning to go this afternoon?? I know the public input meeting starts at 5 but just curious to see when everyone will trinkle in?
I heard anyone that was speaking was suppose to be there before 4. If I wrong, please let me know.

Copper'sMom
September 12th, 2005, 01:34 PM
GOOD LUCK this afternoon ladies!!!!! :grouphug: You will all do fine!! I'll be thinking about ya!!! :grouphug:

btw, GREAT pics!!!!!!!!

Conners
September 12th, 2005, 01:46 PM
Thanks for your support CoppersMom! It'll go well I'm sure...if only the shaking would stop. LOL
For those that don't know what time it starts, Betty the City Clerk just phoned me and although I couldn't get a direct answer, she said there were many deligations and depending on what time they end and the next one starts, it's best to be early to get a seat. When I probed her to be more specific for the pit bull bylaws, she said it's best to come around 4 when it starts and then you're assured a seat.
Also Lezzer is going to be there around 4th to wish us luck and probably give us a big great group hug we'll need. I know I sure do!
Well back to getting ready. Gotta show Tanquilli I'm not a thug nor dressed like one. :p

lezzpezz
September 12th, 2005, 01:54 PM
Just read the first bit about how it is "meant to help the owners". Geez, thanks Fred......and how about the part where he says the council doesn't support BSL.....B.S. alright!! :mad:

PIT BULL OWNERS TO SPEAK UP TONIGHT
COUNC. FRED TRANQUILLI SAYS THE PROSPOSED LICENSING BYLAW IS MEANT TO HELP THE OWNERS.
Monday, September 12, 2005

London pit bull owners get their say tonight about a proposed crackdown on them and their pets.
City council's environment and transportation committee will hear presentations from the public on a proposed new pit bull licensing bylaw.

"I expect we'll hear a lot from people who oppose the pit bull ban," said Coun. Fred Tranquilli, chairperson of the committee.

"But, hopefully, those people will realize we're trying to help them by allowing them to register their pit bulls. We've already decided we don't support breed specific legislation, but we have to respect the provincial legislation."

The new city initiatives recommend tougher controls for pit bulls and harsh penalties for irresponsible pit bull owners.

The tougher controls include higher licence fees, a requirement for $1-million liability insurance, fines up to $500 for bylaw violations and a warning sign at the entrance to the owner's property.

The bylaw follows provincial legislation that came into effect Aug. 29 banning pit bulls. People who already own pit bulls are exempt, provided the dogs are sterilized, leashed and muzzled.

The city is also proposing a policy to pursue the maximum court sentence -- a $10,000 fine and six months in jail -- under the Dog Owners' Liability Act for owners of pit bulls that bite a person or domestic animal.

gdamadg
September 12th, 2005, 02:12 PM
"COUNC. FRED TRANQUILLI SAYS THE PROSPOSED LICENSING BYLAW IS MEANT TO HELP THE OWNERS."

I think Fred Tranquilli and Michael Bryant got dropped on their heads in the same spot. How is it going to help you? All of the responsible "pit" owners, probably had their dogs registered.

GRRRRRR, I HATE THIS PROVINCE AND THE SMALL MINDED POLITICIANS.

lezzpezz
September 12th, 2005, 04:38 PM
Well, I just saw the "girls" off to the City Council meeting and they are all in good spirits and nervous. Looked over the speeches and each one looked fabulous and factual. The ladies will knock 'em dead.

Met a handful of others that will also be speaking against the proposed bylaws, so we all had a good pre-meeting gab fest. Looks good and strong from our side. Unsure if there are many there to speak in favour of the added proposals, but there were tons of people waiting to get into the room and some of the press from the Fanshawe College radio station was there. Council is already running late.....as per usual.

GeorgiaPeaches said she'd swing by work afterwards with an update and I will post something brief and leave it to the others who were in attendance to give a full report of the ongoings.


I'm just trying to wade thru the agenda for tonight's meeting....while not getting caught :eek: at work! It is pretty ugly, to say the least.....

bluntman
September 12th, 2005, 06:17 PM
The city is also proposing a policy to pursue the maximum court sentence -- a $10,000 fine and six months in jail -- under the Dog Owners' Liability Act for owners of pit bulls that bite a person or domestic animal.

The DOLA clearly states that any owner of ANY breed is subject to this depending on circumstances involed and severity of injury, and now in London, they wish to let the other 97% of owners of dogs that DO bite off the hook with a slap on the wrist, and then jail and fine every pit owner who's dog unfortunatly bites someone, even if the dog was provoked?

I guess the councilors in london to not believe in equal rights, and a fair trial for all citizens of london. If they do go ahead with that injustess, I hope someone sues there a$$ off.

I wish you guys and gals the best of luck in talking them out of this, you have all worked so hard on this, lets all hope there listening :fingerscr

lezzpezz
September 12th, 2005, 07:12 PM
I am about 1/2 way thru the 40 page submission to the City from the Companion Animal Welfare Task Force, and if this does not persuade the City into scratching the proposals, I don't know what will!

It is an excellent document full of great facts, stats, suggestions for what action the city SHOULD take, criticisms, cost saving strategies, educational ideas, letters from the educated public...just chalk full of really gritty good stuff. The task force really did their work and never missed a thing. I am very impressed and hope that this submission hits home with those about to make decisions.

I am sitting here at 8:15 p.m. waiting to hear what happened at City Hall..... :o

Georgiapeaches
September 12th, 2005, 07:30 PM
Lezzer, sorry we didn't stop by we just got home, and we are exhausted, and our foster is going in for neuter at 7 am. Everyone that spoke did an excellent job, not one was in support of the proposal.

I was second to speak :yuck: I was interrupted and told to hurry up, so I missed a few points but I feel I got my points across. After a few speakers they were allowing people to go longer than 5 minutes, so I wish I was allowed more time, but oh well.

There were some emotional presentations and some just factual but all were very effective.

At the end 3 members of council stated breed specific restrictions are not the direction they want to go and one still is waiting for me info on the cost of insurance for the owners which he had still not recieved by Jay Stanford.

Thanks Lezzer for being there before it started you gave a big boost of support and energy to me. :)

lezzpezz
September 12th, 2005, 07:37 PM
Congratulations on doing a fab job! How did Conners and the others fair? I figured that most of the participants would be against this crap!! HOORAY!! I am sighing a big sigh of relief. Thanks so much for the update!! Should be a good read in the Free Press tomorrow.

Did you feel that perhaps London will scrap this additional bylaw stuff? Do you think things went in our favour??

I am very proud of all of you! :highfive:

I am going home to have a celebratory beer!! :crazy:

love my dogs
September 12th, 2005, 08:18 PM
Yes, everyone did great.

I even thought I saw a little moisture in tranquilli's eye after conners speach. I spoke right after conners, and had to compose myself because she was so moving.

The perfect mix of emotion (these are our children) and facts (won't make city safer), along with a little reality check for the city that guess what......there is no known insurance company that will offer liability insurance on a dog (pit or not)!!

So, since the city won't issue a licence to a pit, unless it has this non existing insurance, there will be no licenced pits in London.

Well, needless to say they need to do some investigating on the matter, so the issue was put off for another 2 weeks to be looked into in the mean time.

So much was said that I can't really go over everything, but I can say that one of the council members publicly stated that we had changed his position from pro bsl to anti bsl!!!

BullLover
September 12th, 2005, 08:40 PM
Yes, I will agree that everyone did great! I was watching from up above. Nervous for everyone. Conners made about 5 people in the balcony cry. It was a great speach. I'm pretty confident that the city will definately be rethinking this. She had about 3 or 4 journalists in her face when she left the main level to come and sit with me in the balcony.

love my dogs
September 12th, 2005, 08:53 PM
BullLover- I tried to pm you but I'm unsure if it worked.......did you go to conners house with Brutis?

BullLover
September 12th, 2005, 08:57 PM
Just saw the pm. I will respond now. Yes I did go to Conners with Brutus...I had to leave to go to work at 8:30. The news guy said that he would be 20 minutes and that was at 7:30ish, so he was very late and I couldn't wait any longer. There were our dogs and two kids from the neighbourhood there. Would have been so good to have the dogs playing with the kids. Brutus was jumping up and grabbing tree branches and the kids loved the dogs. Even got a kiss or two from Shasta and a high five from Brutus.

BullLover
September 12th, 2005, 10:03 PM
Oh, just saw lovemydogs on the news!!!!

Conners
September 12th, 2005, 10:34 PM
Mama Lezzer, none of us let you down! I'm sooo glad you were there reading speeches and encouraging us and just being there for us. The kisses and the good luck treats you brought was a wonderful touch! *hugs*
Without your help, I could never have gone ahead with it. You truely are our leader and I'm proud to be one of your group.
Your Bow Wow Pow Wow made such a difference getting us all together like that and then today seeing familiar faces and know where everyone came from.
Tranquilli stopped GeargiaPeach, but she just carried on like a pro. All the speaches were great and all spoke in their own way and made a great impression with the councillors. That was even mentioned by one of the council members.
I got stood up with Gerry Devon (sp?), but right now I couldn't care less. From all the anti-anxiety meds I needed to take, I can barely keep my eyes open and ready to go to sleep.
Everyone talked from their hearts, whether it was through statistics, to showing a slide show up on the big screen. Tranquilli asked us not to clap after each speech, but they were all so good, that he didn't stop them afterwards.
He made one comment to me after was was going to sit down. I didn't really get what he said, but it was something like it wasn't his law or proposed law. I was done but inside thought, yeah the veggie burger queen is using you as fly boy.
I'm too tired to continue, but lady...your idea of getting us all together and just being there was so wonderful. We really ARE a group and I hope we can all get together again to celebrate our victory...as I know we won a LOT of points tonight. Freddy was watching his watch. He was ACTUALLY listening. :grouphug:

Conners
September 12th, 2005, 10:38 PM
I meant, he WASN'T watching his watch. He was listening!

twodogsandacat
September 12th, 2005, 11:56 PM
Great work. :thumbs up

morgiesmommy
September 13th, 2005, 08:40 AM
I have to say you guys did such a great job last night! Conner you shone like a spotlight up there! Great Job! I totally froze and lost my concentration and totally forgot what I was supposed to say but you guys blew me away!

lezzpezz
September 13th, 2005, 09:01 AM
Like I said, I am very proud of all of you! I saw the news last night and this morning. A-Channel makes it sound like council is gonna pass this thing anyway and hinted that the days are numbered for Pits in London, but reading what you guys say here paints a very different story! That's the press for ya :mad: They want to give only the slant that works best for them.

Just scanning the paper today.....it is full of quotes by folks that spoke against London's added stuff, including Conners! Good show! Sounds very positive. So that reporter must be pro-pitty!

Thank YOU guys for all of your pats on the back! It is YOU that deserve them, as you did one of the hardest things, speaking in public and to the CITY no less! But you did it out of devotion to your kids! And I think it worked!! Just think how much you have accomplished for other people and their pets in other municipalities! You have laid the groundwork and line of thinking for other councils to follow, as well as helped a LOT of pitbulls and the like. Bravo to each and every one of you :grouphug:

I just got an email from Emily of Awesome Dogs/A.R.F. and a number of other pet rescue/health organizations. She was in the hallway last night and I spoke briefly with her. She wrote a submission to the City, (included as part the blue agenda from last night), which I read last night at work :D . It was excellent! She would love to join us again for another bow wow pow wow and I think we should definitely do that again! Perhaps a celebration party???? :party:

Schwinn
September 13th, 2005, 09:25 AM
Congratulations everyone! I'm proud of you all!

love my dogs
September 13th, 2005, 09:28 AM
Yeah, I was surprised at the news coverage because even Tranquilli said they would have to re-visit some of the provisions to make it affordable for the average owner to comply.

This insurance thing is the real deal breaker in my opinion. I mean, can they impose a bylaw that is impossible to comply with?

Even if they can find an insurance company that will offer this type of insurance to a banned dog that has been branded "a vicious killer", will average Joe be able to afford it? Not likely!

My insurance is already ridiculous (even though I've never had a claim), but I have to have it because I have a mortgage (and yeah I'd have it anyway), but you get my point.

I had to chuckle when it was revealed that they had not yet consulted legal counsel on this proposed by-law. Like....helloo....if you are making a law?

Well, we are talking about LONDON CITY HALL here.....aren't these the people that sit around reading porno mags and playing stupid practical jokes on eachother? Need I say more?

Anyway, the free press seemed to actually give better coverage than the tv, don't you think?

morgiesmommy
September 13th, 2005, 09:40 AM
Unfourtunately I had left work to come speak and had to leave to go back to my conference before all of the speaches were completed. I didn't hear the comments about lack of legal consultation and I missed the news because I was at the conference until really late.
Anymore comments Frankie made that I would be interested in?
I must say though, I was very happy with council's attention. They looked us in the eye, paid attention throughout the speaches...and Lezzer..Connors speach was the full 10 minutes and they listenned to every last minute with no interruption!

lezzpezz
September 13th, 2005, 09:51 AM
I'm pleased that they let Conners take the mike for as long as she needed!

love my dogs
September 13th, 2005, 10:07 AM
I wondered where you went morgiesmommy, I thought you were up in the balcony, but you left. I do recall you saying something about leaving, but my mind was elsewhere, so I guess I forgot real quick. LOL

Your speech was great, don't worry. I felt like I sounded stupid at the end, because I started rambling after I was done with my speech.

I noticed in the agenda it says that the whole point is to come up with a way to distinguish grandfathered pitbulls, and make sure they all get properly licenced. The point I was TRYING to make in all my rambling, is that by making the fee and the conditions so outrageous, they are making it harder not easier to get grandfathered pits properly licenced.

You missed some really good speeches....did you hear the vet speak? She was very emotional, and mentioned that some of her clients live in the country, and would no longer be able to visit her for vet services under this bylaw, since they would not be allowed in the city. So she loses business.

Afterward, they (the council members) all mentioned that we made intelligent arguements, like they axpected us to be uneducated thugs or something...how insulting!

Georgiapeaches
September 13th, 2005, 10:39 AM
I'm so proud of how everyone presented themselves and how they spoke so rational. :) Conners should be especially proud of herself speaking of such a personal experience, it really was effective.


The news on tv was slanted and reported that the bylaw will likely be passed. Ugh I hate some reporters, so typical of jumping the gun and reporting info like it is confirmed to happen.

Can anyone tell me if infact a council member was in attendance by the name of Harold Usher?? I'm not positive but I thought he was sitting on the left hand side (from the observers view) for the first half of the meeting.
My mother just told me that he and my sister (who lives in NYS) were fairly good friends when she lived here. I'm thinking of trying to make a meeting with him.

love my dogs
September 13th, 2005, 10:48 AM
I didn't catch the names around the table, but I have an agenda that lists the members of the committe, and Harold Usher is not on it.

morgiesmommy
September 13th, 2005, 10:51 AM
Were there any pro-amendment speaches? Were they allowing pro speaches or was it just for owners? Because if it was an openly public forum it seemed completely weighted by "against" speakers. If that says something for the position of the residents of this city hopefully Frankie will take notice.

Schwinn
September 13th, 2005, 12:41 PM
Afterward, they (the council members) all mentioned that we made intelligent arguements, like they axpected us to be uneducated thugs or something...how insulting!

Remember, the only time people usually notice a pitbull is either when it is threatening or when there is an attack in the news. Most times, the owner IS a thug or twit, or something stereo-typical. The other one I hear is that they are owned by steroid-freaks with small manhoods looking for a boost. While I won't comment on the one, as far as steroid freaks, since I work out a lot, I've been questioned on that one. I usually reply that if I was on steroids, I'd be asking for my money back. But I digress.

Probably our biggest problem is people don't realize that the we are the majority of owners, not the minority. We don't all live in bad neighbourhoods trying to protect our drugs. My wife, being a bank manager and usually sweet as honey in sunshine, loves it when people get to know her and then she tells them she has a pitbull.

Take it as a compliment. You showed them that not everyone who owns a pitbull is an idiot.

Conners
September 13th, 2005, 01:33 PM
Owners lament proposed pit bull bylaw


JOE BELANGER, Free Press City Hall Reporter 2005-09-13 02:54:35


London's proposed pit bull bylaw came under attack last night at an emotionally charged public meeting at city hall.

Tears flowed as some owners told city council's environment and transportation committee the bylaw could force them to abandon their dogs.

"I will have no choice but to leave this city," said Kim Young, choking back tears as she presented a slide show of her purebred Staffordshire bull terriers, Gus and Kelly, in competitions and play.

"Giving up my dogs is not an option."

Other owners delivered much the same message, including:

- The bylaw unfairly targets responsible dog owners.

- It will be impossible to enforce because of a loose definition of pit bulls.

- It places an "exorbitant" financial burden on owners, in terms of licence fees and other measures.

- A requirement for owners to have $1 million in liability insurance may be impossible or too expensive for owners to obtain.

The committee referred their concerns to staff for a report at the committee's next meeting Sept. 26.

"This bylaw is going to separate pets from their owners and dogs will die as a result of this and their deaths will be your responsibility," veterinarian Alexandra Soltan told the committee.

"Dogs should be restricted on the basis of their behaviour, not their looks."

The proposed bylaw is in response to the Ontario government's ban on pit bulls, which came into effect Aug. 29.

The province imposed the ban after a number of vicious attacks by pit bulls on people and pets.

People who own pit bulls are exempt, provided the dogs are sterilized, leashed and muzzled.

City staff say a local bylaw is needed to enforce the new provincial law by ensuring all pit bulls are licensed.

But the proposed bylaw puts even tougher measures in place, including:

- A licence fee of $130 annually, compared to the current $25.

- $25 for a warning sign at the entrance to owners' property.

- A first-time administration fee of $25.

- Proof pit bulls are microchipped and sterilized.

- Fines up to $500 for bylaw violations.

The city is also proposing a policy to pursue the maximum court sentence -- a $10,000 fine and six months in jail -- under the Dog Owners' Liability Act for owners of dogs that bite a person or domestic animal.

Beth Saylor, president of the London Dog Owners Association, told the committee she contacted more than 40 insurance agents and brokers and was unable to get a quote on the cost of insurance.

"Not one insurance company would send a quote in writing," Saylor said.

"One agent even said I could have my house insurance cancelled if I owned a pit bull and another said it would be illegal to insure a pit bull because they're banned in Ontario."

Among the 15-plus presenters was Sonny Allinson, manager of communications for the Canadian Kennel Club.

Allinson said a major problem with the provincial legislation and proposed bylaw is the lack of a definition.

"The generic reference refers to a population of randomly bred dogs," Allinson said. "Our concern is that municipalities will see that definition become a catch-all for additional, precisely defined, purebred dogs. There have been a lot of tears shed around this table tonight. There will be more tears, no question about that."

WHAT THEY SAID

"I wish the city would stop concentrating their effort on penalizing the responsible dog owner but start going after the puppy mills and dog fighting rings. Lets start targeting the people who are causing the problem, the irresponsible dog owners."

- Beth Saylor, president, London Dog Owners Association

"I want the city to specifically target aggressive dogs . . . And I'm saying the city must find an alternative to euthanizing those pit bulls that owners have abandoned."

- Christine Hopkins, owner of a Staffordshire bull terrier

"If you want to own a dog, aside from having it neutered or spayed, part of the package should be (that) you have to take training."

- Henry Masek, owner of a purebred American pit bull

"If this bylaw is approved, I will hang my head in shame. I don't want to live or work in such a city."

- Alexandra Soltan, veterinarian

"If it wasn't for her, I'd be bedridden today. She's gotten me out of the house, she's my companion. I think the fees are ridiculous and I can't afford them, but I'll do it somehow. She's an angel who's given me back my life."

- Connie Dufour, owner of Shasta, a pit bull

"This is a violation of my rights. If a convicted child molester doesn't have to put a sign on their front lawn, why do I have to put one up? I'm not a criminal, but I feel like I'm being treated like one."

- Danielle Faubert, owner of a purebred American pit terrier





Copyright The London Free Press

Conners
September 13th, 2005, 01:47 PM
...and Lezzer..Connors speach was the full 10 minutes and they listenned to every last minute with no interruption!
I thought I got it down to 4. You mean I didn't? Glad he let me speak then. :p

morgiesmommy
September 13th, 2005, 02:12 PM
It was the full ten, cause I giggled when I realized it had been 10 mins not 5 remembering Lezzer's words to you at the bow wow pow wow. I am glad you had a chance to say everything you had to say, and I am even more glad that they listenned to you. Your words needed to be heard. Good job.

lezzpezz
September 13th, 2005, 02:16 PM
They let you speak because what you had to say was meant to be heard! Every last riveting emotion-filled, honest, heartfelt word of it. You deserved to be heard and they knew it from the first words out of your mouth. Your speech was just exactly the tonic needed to push this nonsense the right way.....it wasn't like the others, it focused on a different angle than others may have pointed out. Yours showed how it hurts and the City needs to feel that what they are doing is killing not only dogs in the physical sense, but owners in the emotional sense. Does THAT make sense? I am braindrained now and rambling......

Conners
September 13th, 2005, 02:36 PM
I know about the BrainDrain, I feel like I could sleep a thousand years. While we were inside, I gave someone with a dog outside my petition board to gather signatures. They did a great job and I handed out a lot to people that wanted to collect signatures too.
I rehersed at home and was able to speak quickly, but I guess with trying to not cry, I must have slowed down. Since no one stopped me, I figured I was doing alright time wise, but I had also phoned Betty Merciercer earlier that day and asked if possible I wasn't interrupted because of my phobia's of speaking out in public. She was at the head table with Tranquilli and I didn't even notice the other dude until I went upstairs to the balcony.
No matter what, I'm glad it's over and now I want to know what this meeting in two weeks is exactly. Is it also sppeeches or just their new propasal to what they heard last night?

lezzpezz
September 13th, 2005, 03:24 PM
I'll find out from Beth Saylor what is exactly the outline for the Sept. 26 meeting. I think it might be closed doors with council only, but we shall see...

That was very smart thinking to call Betty re: phobias....never thought of that one! But you know your limits the best!

I'll let you know when I hear back from Beth.....

Conners
September 13th, 2005, 03:57 PM
Betty was very encouraging and told me 'Good for you! Not only will you be heard for the pit bulls, but will help you to overcome a phobia as well.' It sounded to me that she was more on our side, but as City Clerk, was only there to take notes etc. I was so happy to see her name as one sitting next to Tranquilli.
After it was over, several people hugged me, along with our group who did nothing but hug and encourage one another the whole time, but also a woman with disabilities, one was the same as I have, offered to take me shopping or whatever I needed, plus she wants to meet Shasta. She has offered me to take me once every two weeks to whatever I need to do or would like to do. I was so touched and that's when I realized that I really did speak for the disabled and they were there to prove it to me.
BullLover has been by my side since the bow wow pow wow and we even walk or kids together. She drove me to the meeting and I told her quickly drive home and get Brutus for when the tv guy (that stood me up) came. It would have been perfect, but I'm still thinking I should make a collage of the pictures as you never know if it could come in handy for a city hall meeting. I would make sure to add that none of these dogs had previously met, yet no incident.
Actually, there was a incident that happened when BullLover came to pick me up with her kids. I don't know who growled, but Shasta was muzzled. I never EVER saw her go into a frantic frenzie knowing she couldn't protect herself if she needed to. She absolutelty paniced. Once the muzzle was removed they kissed. Now I wonder just how these muzzles will effect our dogs because it broke my heart to see Shasta that paniced. lf the non-muzzled dogs (other breeds) growl at our dogs due to the muzzle, how will that effect them? I would have liked to ask that question in my speech, but of course I already had enough. *giggle*
QUESTION: Do we or do we not have to muzzle our dogs in public as of Aug. 29th or do we have until Oct before the muzzling is enforced? I saw a lot of dogs not muzzled at City Hall and one was muzzled to prove a point. So where do we stand on the muzzling?

Georgiapeaches
September 13th, 2005, 04:04 PM
Conners, muzzling is NOT required by provincial law until October 28, 2005.

PLEASE EVERYONE VOTE: Scroll down and on left hand side under POLL click on vote "Do you think London's proposed pitbull bylaw is too strict?" http://www.am980.ca

BullLover
September 13th, 2005, 04:10 PM
Not bad....71% say it is too harsh. Might do Tranquilli good to see that one.

Georgiapeaches
September 13th, 2005, 04:16 PM
I'm suprised at the poll so far! Just goes to show it is too harsh.

I think we can attend the nxt meeting in two weeks, I recall Tranquilli stating we are welcome to attend but it is not a public input meeting. I'm going, let my face be recognized and let them know we are not laying down and taking it.

Conners
September 13th, 2005, 04:47 PM
Thanks for making that clear GeorgiaPeaches. I'm going to wean Shasta on it slowly then. Maybe me putting it on her all the time all at once was just too much for her.
I put the POLL on my blog too as it attracts a lot of animal and especially PetBull lovers. Even people from different countries are outraged not only with our Provincial Ban, but also with the proposed City bylaws. It doesn't say the poll is only for Londoners, so let them have their vote too. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.