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A question about this muzzle law.........

kellyla
August 18th, 2005, 10:03 AM
I was just out walking Boston with his muzzle on and we had stopped to get the mail and one of the neighbours was out walking.He has passed us before while out and says to me today I thought your dog bites.I told he he doesnt.He says Well he has a muzzle on now(saying this while patting him)I told him I was trying get Boston used to wearing it because of law that was being brought in.He told me he had never heard about this law.
Now my question.How does the government go about letting people know about laws like this?Here we all are trying to make sure our babies are conforming to the law yet what about the thousands of others who have these animals and havent heard about this law?I will be out walking my dog with his muzzle and I am sure there will lots without and my dog is going to look like the monster while he is the law abiding one.Am I being a little dramatic here,LOL?
Thanks for any info.

Beaglemom
August 18th, 2005, 10:12 AM
I don't think you are being dramatic at all! I hate this new muzzle law. I hate the whole BSL in general!

Well behaved, friendly dogs are being punished just because of the type of breed they are or resemble. When people see a dog that is muzzled, they automatically assume that it must be a vicious dog, when in reality, they are only conforming to the dumb law.

The whole BSL and its rules have been announced on the news in all formats. I have seen it on TV, heard it on the radio and read it in the papers and net.

I just wonder how it will be enforced. Are there going to be doggie police patrolling to make sure that all are conforming to the laws. That every leash is 6ft or under, dog is spayed/neutered, muzzled, etc.? This seems to be like a lot of work. Are they going to rely on people reporting those who don't conform? I can see this leading to a lot of problems.

lezzpezz
August 18th, 2005, 10:30 AM
Well, that's gonna be a problem, isn't it? This is why I have just written and submitted a letter to one of the local papers outlining the basics of the new law, for the general public to read, because there really hasn't been any big advertising/information promotion by the government whatsoever, that I am aware of! So I decided that I should let it be known, at least in my area.

If you go to the thread "BSL Facts in a nutshell please", you can take a look at the letter I have sent in. It will be published Aug. 24th, just in time for the ***** hitting the fan.....

There have already been some incidents of misguided information and false accusations here in London. I am trying to prevent by education. Keep doing what you're doing: tell people you meet, answer their questions, direct them to websites etc. If you own a pitty, you may also want to carry a copy of the bylaw with you, so you can show it if needed to the ignoramouses with the wrong facts that are out there that think they know it all, and they are out there!

Apparently the gov't isn't doing much to spread the word. It's gonna be a rude awakening when suddenly, an uninformed pit bull owner gets a whopping ticket or worse! Mind you, I think most dog owners are "in the know" re: bill 132, but many may not be!

lezzpezz
August 18th, 2005, 10:37 AM
[QUOTE=lezzerpezzer] because there really hasn't been any big advertising/information promotion by the government whatsoever, that I am aware of!
QUOTE]

Boy, I never thought I would quote myself! Of course there has been news of this online, media etc., I meant that I have not seen anything LATELY, and Aug. 29 is right around the corner! I figured that the gov't might do a real push of info on Bill 132 NOW, but that has not been my experience, hence my letter to the paper..... :p

bluntman
August 18th, 2005, 11:29 AM
From what I have seen in the last 6 weeks that I have been takeing Mercedes to work, is that people seem to think the new law is only in Toronto, or they have not heard about it at all. I have yet to talk to one person that is aware, or has any idea about bill 132. I'm really begining to think the only people that were paying any attention to Bryant's B.S were the other Liberals and us concerned, educated dog owners.

PetFriendly
August 18th, 2005, 12:13 PM
From what I've heard, my municipality will only be enforcing it on a complaint basis. They are going to send letters to all owners who's dogs are licensed advising them of the requirements... The only problem with that is that the 'bad owners' are the ones who's dogs aren't licensed.

My sources are pretty reliable...

bluntman
August 18th, 2005, 01:32 PM
That sounds right to me petfriendly, I can't see too many municipalities actually sending out enforcment patrols to hassle people walking there leashed dogs, just to make sure there not pit bulls. But if there is a complaint by someone they may investigate. I hope most will turn out to be false allarms, and cities will grow very tired of this dumb muzzel law very soon, and all the complaints about it, will end up in Bryant's lap.

PetFriendly
August 18th, 2005, 02:14 PM
Here's the info the City of Ottawa has on their website. There are some usefull links in case anyone wants to pass them on.

http://ottawa.ca/city_services/bylaws/violation/animal_care/cats_dogs/dogs/1_2_1_8_en.shtml

babyrocky1
August 18th, 2005, 05:02 PM
Thanks Petfriendly it does say October 28th. Here is a quote from the AG office "within 60 days of Aug 29th 2005 (by Octover 28} pit bull owners willhave to have their dogs leashed and muzzled in public and comply with sterillization requirements." By the way welcome to the board :)

kellyla
August 19th, 2005, 09:56 AM
After I posted this question yesterday I received our little community newspaper and it was a 1/4 page ad Amendments to the Dog Owners Liability Act.It states all the stuff that has to be done by August 29(the only thing that has the October 28th date is sterilization)
They tell you to go to www.e-laws.gov.on.ca or visit the Hamilton City website or drop by City Hall-Animal Control to pick up a phamplet.

This looks like it is going to be way to hard to regulate and I pity people whose neighbours dont get along and have their dogs reported.We have already had some people in the neighbourhood tell us they hate those dogs,so we cant take any chances with Boston.

Thanks for all of the info and insight.

mona_b
August 19th, 2005, 10:30 AM
Here is a link that states what's going on.

http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/about/pubs/dola-pubsfty/dola-pubsfty.asp#TOC_03

Now just remember something.Once the ban comes into effect,and just say by chance you are walking your Pit and he snaps and attacks someone,you will be charged a very heavy fine,$10.000 and or imprisonment.So please just keep this in mind.

We have been talking about all this at the station for quite some time now.We did n't know if it was going to be us who lays charges(meaning seeing a Pit with no muzzle)or not.Apperently they are going to have/hire bylaw officers for this.We will just have to see what happens.

bluntman
August 19th, 2005, 11:41 AM
From the way they word the "new powers" section of the bill, just about anybody can inforce this law.
"The amendments to DOLA provide that police officers, special constables, First Nations Constables, auxiliary police, municipal law enforcement officers, OSPCA inspectors and OSPCA agents are all designated as peace officers for the purposes of DOLA"

It's to bad all the gun toteing thugs in Ontario don't have to worry about all that "HEAT" on them, just us pitty owners, Thanks again Bryant :evil:

babyrocky1
August 19th, 2005, 04:58 PM
I registered Rocky last week with the Toronto AC. They seemed to be very much against the bill. They told me that they will not be the ones enforcing it as there are not funds for that in Toronto. They thought it would be the police, but Im sure Mona would know better cause they did say they were just guessing. They also said that they are already recieveing a huge influx of nasty neighbours reporting their neighbours un-muzzled pit bull. They said they asked one of them how long they have lived next to the dog and the answer was five years. Obviously the dog did nothing but he neighbour was just waiting for the chance to "get them on something" As you guys know from some of my previous posts I have neighbours like that. They probably have Animal Control on speed dial!

babyrocky1
August 19th, 2005, 05:10 PM
From what I've heard, my municipality will only be enforcing it on a complaint basis. They are going to send letters to all owners who's dogs are licensed advising them of the requirements... The only problem with that is that the 'bad owners' are the ones who's dogs aren't licensed.

My sources are pretty reliable...
I have heard this too Pet Friendly! but They will be bogged down with neighbour complaints, especially at the beginning. I wonder too if the neighbours are just complaining about the dog being un-muzzled and they contact you three weeks later...do they have to have proof that your dog was un-muzzled. There are just so may un-knowns and even animal control in Toronto at this late date has no answers!

babyrocky1
August 19th, 2005, 05:16 PM
It's to bad all the gun toteing thugs in Ontario don't have to worry about all that "HEAT" on them, just us pitty owners, Thanks again Bryant :evil: Its sickening isn't it, and with all the gun crime and children being shot, Bryant spends law enforcement money to harrass us.

mastifflover
August 19th, 2005, 06:47 PM
Well I have been helping my friends with pits to register there dogs and it is amazing we have not registered one as a pit we a coming up with creative combos and hound mastiff mix, boxer american bulldog. People be creative when registering babies. This law is a big steaming pile of dog sh** and use your heads to get around it. I won't even give my comments about the loser M.B. He is a media hound loves to see his name in print. The animal control guys around me say unless someone calls and makes a formal complaint about a dog they have no intention of going out of their way to enforce it unless there is a complete idiot owner. So be responsible and leash your babies.

gdamadg
August 19th, 2005, 07:39 PM
It doesn't matter what breed it is though, if you read the by law. If it has the appearance, then it will be classified as a pit bull.

babyrocky1
August 19th, 2005, 07:59 PM
It doesn't matter what breed it is though, if you read the by law. If it has the appearance, then it will be classified as a pit bull.Yes Gdamadog, but the key word here is Can be not will be. They do have all the power to classify any dog they want to pretty much, how many dogs don't look like a possible pit bull X? So they can target anyone they want to, which in a way is even more anti-democratic. They could choose to traget some dogs owned by say someone in a poorer area and not choose to target other dogs in a more well to do area or even worse a racist situation. When something is left entirely to the interputation of "police or enforcement officers of any kind' how can it be democratic? this whole thing has shattered what little faith I had left in democracy in Ontario. After some of the things the Harris gov. got away with and now this I really think we live in very scary times. We just have to force our governments into behavaing properly! Thats a tall order though isn't it. Well I guess my rant is done for now Ihave to get back to work...too bad though cause I was just getting started LOL

bluntman
August 22nd, 2005, 08:33 AM
I'm with mastifflover on this one, both my pit bulls are licenced, but they are not licenced as pit's. I do not trust the goverment anymore, today pit's are grandfatherd, tomorow they may order all pits PTS, just to hide the fact that 99% of pit bull type dogs never hurt a flea. After all, I'm just a dumb dog owner, I have no idea what breed my dogs are, I'm sure the lady that handed Mercedes to me said she was a black lab-boxer mix, so that what she is licenced as, untill it is proven in a court of law that she is not a lab-boxer mix she will not be forced to put on a muzzel.

gdamadg
August 22nd, 2005, 10:14 AM
If you read further into the legislature, if they "think" it is a pit bull, they "will" classify it as that. Then it is up to you as the owner to prove what breed it is.

The amendments provide that in a Part IX proceeding the onus of proving that the dog is not a pit
bull will lie with the owner of the dog. In offence proceedings, the amendments provide that the
prosecution must prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt and that, in the absence of evidence
to the contrary, a veterinarian's certificate attesting that a dog is a pit bull is evidence of that fact.
Part IX proceedings and offence proceedings are heard before the Ontario Court of Justice.

bluntman
August 22nd, 2005, 11:36 AM
I reallize if they "think" it's a pit, than it's a pit. But I refuse to bow down and submit to this "bad law", If everyone submit's to bad laws, than people like Bryant will keep pushing the boundries of bad law and everyone looses. I allso do not believe that this law will stand up in a court, it is fare to vauge.

gdamadg
August 22nd, 2005, 12:18 PM
Bluntman,

I totally agree with you and I hope this blows up in the governments face. But until there is a change of power, I don't see anything changing. It will all come down to where you live and how much money the municipal governments are willing to use to enforce this. This is not something that will go away and registering your dog as something it is not, will not change it. If someone thinks it looks like a "pit" and doesn't like you or your dog, they will report an "accusation". Then it is hands of the "officials".

When is the next provincial election? I know when this all started there was lots of media exposure, but since has been quiet. Not many actually know about this. As I think was said somewhere else on here, only the directly affected pet owners, caring individuals, and the governments at all levels.

mona_b
August 22nd, 2005, 12:55 PM
This is not something that will go away and registering your dog as something it is not, will not change it. If someone thinks it looks like a "pit" and doesn't like you or your dog, they will report an "accusation". Then it is hands of the "officials".

So very true.

And I am NOT looking forward to getting these calls.... :(

What people have to realize is,if you do licence your Pit mix as another breed,and say something does happen and your dog snaps for some reason.And what I mean by this is attacks someone or even a child(and yes it can happen,and has)and it is proven that he/she is a Pit,are you willing to come up with the $10.0000 fine and or jail time?Along with having to pay any or all medical bills?And in the end loosing your dog?

And the sad thing about this ban is how they are now ending up at the shelters.I have never seen so many Pit/X's in my SPCA than I have been seeing in the last couple of months.

gdamadg
August 22nd, 2005, 01:04 PM
This is beyond the point of protest, this is real and going to be enforced. And it is your responsibility as honest, law abiding pet owners, to do just that. And prove the government and uneducated wrong, and that "Pit Bull" are not the viscious "breed" that the Bryant government made them out to be.

I wish I had the time, money and space to go and adopt as many pitX's as I can before the deadline. But I can't, so I will obide by the law and take care of the one I have. I am planning on leaving this province to a more Pit friendly one in a year or two. But I have family here and will visit. For that reason, I hope that when the next election comes, there is enough of a voice to make this an election issue. It is not the government that is in charge, it is us. I would like to be able to bring Sprint with me to visit family here. But as it stands, this will not be allowed.

Beaglemom
August 22nd, 2005, 01:23 PM
And the sad thing about this ban is how they are now ending up at the shelters.I have never seen so many Pit/X's in my SPCA than I have been seeing in the last couple of months.
I went to the THS a few weeks ago and they have so many of these wonderful dogs. One in particular really tugged at my heart strings. I actually cried because I knew that there was no way that I would be able to take him home and he was the sweetest dog ever. I spent a good 15 minutes just playing with him and so wanted to adopt him. The saddest thing is that he has been there now for months and the only thing keeping him from being adopted is the fact that they have him down as a pit bull mix. I hate to think of what will happen to all these beautiful dogs in shelters once the ban comes into full effect.

bluntman
August 22nd, 2005, 03:58 PM
This is not something that will go away and registering your dog as something it is not, will not change it. If someone thinks it looks like a "pit" and doesn't like you or your dog, they will report an "accusation". Then it is hands of the "officials".

Yes, thats true, but people should NOT be regestering there dogs as pit's just becuse they may resemble one, or they are not sure. Zena's mum was a pure breed APBT, her father was a red nose pit mix, AKA a mut, so Zena is a mut and will not be rgisterd as an APBT. I have no paperwork saying what Mercedes is, so it's up to me to decide for now, and I say she is a lab-boxer mix. So it's my responsabiliy as a law bideing dog owner to complie with the new law as it pertains to dogs, not pit bulls, for the time being.

If everyone with a pit mix, lab mix, boxer mix, staffie mix ect, ect, starts to register there dogs a pit bull, that will open the door for other mixes to be deemed as pit type dogs and no one will be safe from this bad law. further more the newspapers will be able to call any dog that bites a pit bull. The only way to have an APBT, is to breed one pure APBT with another pure APBT, the same goes for other dog breeds, anything else is a mut, muts are great and don't need to be banned. So if it an't a pit bull it an't a pit bull, and there is no need to register it as such.

pitbulliest
August 22nd, 2005, 08:35 PM
I went to the THS a few weeks ago and they have so many of these wonderful dogs. One in particular really tugged at my heart strings. I actually cried because I knew that there was no way that I would be able to take him home and he was the sweetest dog ever. I spent a good 15 minutes just playing with him and so wanted to adopt him. The saddest thing is that he has been there now for months and the only thing keeping him from being adopted is the fact that they have him down as a pit bull mix. I hate to think of what will happen to all these beautiful dogs in shelters once the ban comes into full effect.


You can still adopt pitties from the THS by the way. They will keep adopting them out until the law comes into affect..so if you're looking for a forever friend, head on over to the THS..they have tons of pitties in need of good homes...and its better that one of you good natured people get a pittie instead of some dumb arse bumm that lives close to THS. Oh, and if you ever DO go to the THS to adopt an animal or even to just check it out, please keep putting the pressure on the shelter to do thorough adoption interviews with potential adoptees...as of late, the politics in the THS have gotten extremely bad..I'm not sure if any of you are aware, but the president of THS is an extreme azzhole, as well as some of his supervisors in the shelter...

I am currently working there with cruelty investigation, and I know that there have been "waiver fee" weekends where pets are free and alot of bumms are coming around to pick up dogs and cats.......and I also know that the president always emphasizes on how many pets get adopted to "wonderful homes"..when in reality, just the other weekend, two adoptees that had a "do not adopt" checkmark on their files (given by the cruelty investigations dept) were given dogs and cats...many times because of this, cruelty dept had to go pick up dogs and cats from these types of people...point being, they shouldn't have gotten animals in the first place...

so yeah, please put pressure on the shelter....at least until this stupid president and his appointed boons (shelter supervisors) get kicked out for the next bunch.

gdamadg
August 22nd, 2005, 09:13 PM
Bluntman,

That is just it, a "Pit Bull" does not exist as a breed. It is slang for many breeds and as such the legislature takes that into account. Sprint is a Boxer/AmStaff cross and registered as such. Even if he was registered as a Boxer cross, he would be classifed as a "Pit Bull". He has that look. You don't have to register them as a "Pit Bull", but still abide by the law. Even a Boxer/Lab cross will be classified under the legislature and have to be muzzled. It is there, if it looks like one, it is one. I don't like the law but I still abide by it, until I have the opportunity to vote this government out and someone that will abolish the law in.

I hope for your sake that you don't have a neighbor out to get you, and a "peace officer" that comes to investigate and sieze that agrees with the legislature. You will lose your dog and be fined heavily or even time in prison. The only way to win is to abide by the stupid law and prove the government wrong.

pitbulliest
August 22nd, 2005, 09:23 PM
I agree :)

mona_b
August 22nd, 2005, 09:57 PM
Sorry,but I never had anything good to say about the THS.

Actually,Pit Bull is just slang for American Pit Bull Terrier.

Welcome to a site dedicated to providing you with a TRUE look at the wonderful breed of dog known as the Pit Bull (American Pit Bull Terrier).

Here is a bit more.




Pit Bull Breed Profile

Breed Name: American Pit Bull Terrier

Description:
Known for their intelligence and loyalty American Pit Bull Terriers make excellent, loving and protective companion despite the unfair press they receive. Some American Pit Bull Terriers are dual-registered as an American Pit Bull Terrier with the UKC and as an American Staffordshire Terrier with the AKC; however, this draws criticism from many who point out that the bloodlines have been separate for too long for these to be considered the same breed. Choose from a responsible breeder and make sure the puppy is properly socialized and handled. A minimum of training will produce a tranquil, good, obedient, companion dog.

I would put the site where it came from,but it also had a listing of breeders.And I am talking about BYB's.

I agree totaly gdamadg.

gdamadg
August 22nd, 2005, 10:09 PM
Thanks mona_b and pitbulliest.

We all have to be proud of the wonderful members of our family and be strong. Educated the uneducated and ignore the ignorant. I have had different breeds of dogs, but none until now have been so loving and loyal. Every time someone new meets Sprint that is hesitant of the "breed", they leave with a smile and say that he is such a wonderful dog. The only harm he will do, is if you get in the way of his tail. Bruised shins all around. :)

babyrocky1
August 25th, 2005, 06:27 PM
Yes, thats true, but people should NOT be regestering there dogs as pit's just becuse they may resemble one, or they are not sure. Zena's mum was a pure breed APBT, her father was a red nose pit mix, AKA a mut, so Zena is a mut and will not be rgisterd as an APBT. I have no paperwork saying what Mercedes is, so it's up to me to decide for now, and I say she is a lab-boxer mix. So it's my responsabiliy as a law bideing dog owner to complie with the new law as it pertains to dogs, not pit bulls, for the time being.

If everyone with a pit mix, lab mix, boxer mix, staffie mix ect, ect, starts to register there dogs a pit bull, that will open the door for other mixes to be deemed as pit type dogs and no one will be safe from this bad law. further more the newspapers will be able to call any dog that bites a pit bull. The only way to have an APBT, is to breed one pure APBT with another pure APBT, the same goes for other dog breeds, anything else is a mut, muts are great and don't need to be banned. So if it an't a pit bull it an't a pit bull, and there is no need to register it as such. I agree with you here Bluntman, to a point. I took Rocky to Animal Control with me. He is not a pure bred anything so I truely don't know his breed, he is not registered as a pit bull but he is registered, micro-chipped, nuetered ofcourse-6 yrs ago. etc etc. his vet records do not class him as a pit bull. BUT I will be complying with the ban :mad: muzzling etc. I know he looks like a pit bull and will be considered as such should anything go wrong or if theres a complaint about him, so I have to live with this law BUT if I comply and keep him away from trouble makers I have the added protection so far of him not being registered as a pit bull, also if we are fighting the reverse onus portion of the bill yet we go sign up our alleged pit bulls as pit bulls then even if we win don't we loose?

babyrocky1
August 25th, 2005, 06:44 PM
Just to clarify, he was registered last week. Toronto Animal Control had no interest whatsoever in designating him a pit bull (even though he at least looks like a cross) and they made that very clear to me. They also said they had no funds to enforce the ban and they all agreed that it was ridiculous. their main concern was for people who couldnt afford to spay and nueter on time. They told me that the neighbours of alleged pit bulls had already been calling. They werent impressed by the neighbours. The attitude was very much anti-ban, Im not suggesting that people don't comply, we have to comply but it was comforting to know that my neighbourhood animal control wont be cruising for me. They will ofcourse have to do their job, but will not be going out of their way to make our lives miserable, unlke certain politicians we know. Which is another thing, does he even care if its enforced, he already got the publicity...Im sure hes moved on looking for someone else to exploit now that hes made our lives miserable. In fact the reason no one knows who will enforce this ban is because MB refuses to pay anyone to do it. do you think the public will stand for police resources going into this...I know all sorts of folks under the leg can be empowered to enforce it but they still have to be payed and no one has the money. Many municipalities don't have the political will either! I hope that the money issue isn't whats prompting the recent London insanity!

pitbulliest
August 25th, 2005, 09:40 PM
Hmm..Mona, I'm sorry but I'll have to disagree with you.. "pitbull" is a term that includes a number of breeds....its not just the American Pitbull Terrier...it also includes the Am Staff, the Staffy Bull, and the Staff Terrier...

As for the THS...yeah its really too much politics at this point...don't get me wrong, some of the staff are extremely dedicated to the animals...the vets, the techs, the adoption dept, the volunteers..all these people really care alot..its just the darn supervisors/managers and the president...they're the only ones giving the THS a bad name these days..and its very unfortunate...

PetFriendly
August 27th, 2005, 06:46 PM
I wonder too if the neighbours are just complaining about the dog being un-muzzled and they contact you three weeks later

Having come from the 'country' where I had few neighbours and moving to suburbia with all these people, you learn one thing, the less neighbours you have, the more you will like then and they you...

I wonder who's writing the bill to ensure stupid folk are made to be outcasts?! lol (for anyone reading, don't take that the wrong way without thinking about the way we do, from a dog's perspective)

love my dogs
August 29th, 2005, 01:28 PM
My question is what would happen if my muzzled dog was attacked by a non muzzled dog and could not defend himself?
I'm also curious as to how I am expected to train my pit to be non aggressive if I cannot properly socialize him with other dogs and people. Oh yeah, I guess it's not supposed to matter if he's mean since he'll be muzzled in public anyway.

kellyla
August 29th, 2005, 01:57 PM
Love my dogs,I have wondered too if my dog was attacked what would happen.He was attacked by the dog down the street so I wont let him near her any more(yet the neighbour keeps asking us to try to let them meet again,I am not very certain that will ever happen)

love my dogs
August 29th, 2005, 02:19 PM
Kellyla , if you have a neighbour with an aggressive dog, there is an even greater chance of your defenseless muzzled pit being attacked. I mean he still needs excercise, to not excercise your dog would be cruel, you can't just lock him up. It's the aggressive dog that should be muzzled. There are aggressive dogs of all breeds, and friendly dogs of all breeds. Why does an aggressive dog of another breed get more rights than my non aggressive pit?
It seems very inhumane.

gdamadg
August 29th, 2005, 03:37 PM
That is one of my concerns. Today while walking Sprint at lunch, there was this guy walking his "mutt". Couldn't even pick out any specific breed. It seemed playful at first from afar, and of course Sprint wanted to say hello. Tail wagging as we got closer, then the "mutt" barked, growled and then lunged at Sprint. I put myself between the two dogs and kept walking. When I looked back, the guy was pulling on the leash so hard and high the dog was up on its hind legs. Obviously one of those "good owners" that deserve to not be discriminated.

It really got me pissed off. Especially considering the day it is. Oh and Sprint's muzzle finally arrived in the mail today. He was a good boy and let me put it on and adjust it. But it only lasts about a minute before he freaks out and tries to take it off. Poor guy, it's gonna take longer than the 60 day grace period to get him used to it.

Here's a pic of him with it on, looking sad of course.

gdamadg
August 29th, 2005, 03:38 PM
And right when he freaked out. :sad:

StaceyB
August 29th, 2005, 03:42 PM
Be very careful. Dogs that get anxious with these on usually can't breath properly. Bring a good supply of water with you on your walks and be prepared to take it off occasionally to give them a chance to relax and breath..

gdamadg
August 29th, 2005, 04:02 PM
StaceyB,

I will, thanks for the advice. I don't think he is quite up to a walk with one on yet. But it will be with me.

I am thinking of switching him to a Martingale collar, he still needs some work on the leash. And his Halti doesn't work properly with muzzle on. I am hoping to start him with obedience classes soon. Or do you have any ideas of something that would work better, with the muzzle on?

StaceyB
August 29th, 2005, 04:14 PM
A gentle leader will work fine. I have a private student right now who is wearing both just fine.

gdamadg
August 29th, 2005, 04:15 PM
Thanks StaceyB.

mastifflover
August 29th, 2005, 04:35 PM
I feel so bad for the dogs and the owners. I personally think that these dogs look meaner with the muzzle on (which I know is not true), which in turn will make people think your sweet well behaved dog is mean and vicous. The only ones who need muzzles are the liberals.

StaceyB
August 29th, 2005, 05:31 PM
This is going to be a huge problem because of that. Anyone that comes across a dog wearing a muzzle is more likely to show fear because most people think that dogs wearing a muzzle are aggressive. This will create serious behaviour issues. Far worse than what they think they have now.

marvandmisty
August 29th, 2005, 07:22 PM
i also think muzzles are mean and cruel. And i agree that people who see a dog with a muzzle especially a pit with a muzzle are more apt to think they are mean. i would not muzzle my dogs no matter what the law. if i am walking my dogs they will not go after anything, however if we are inside the house and a stranger tries to come in with out knocking they will alert us.

love my dogs
August 29th, 2005, 09:08 PM
gdamadg - Your dog looks just like my Duke. I would look for some guidence with the muzzle training, so that it does not have to be such a terrible experience for your pup.
check out www.awesomedogs.ca for some great tips. If you are starting training soon, your trainer will probably help you.
I myself have done a little bit of muzzle training, but I've been putting it off because it upsets me so much.
Good Luck!

gdamadg
August 29th, 2005, 10:12 PM
I would look for some guidence with the muzzle training, so that it does not have to be such a terrible experience for your pup.

Thank you for your advice. I have been researching lots of training techniques and I am taking it slowly. And he will be starting Obedience classes soon. Once I find a trainer I like in my area. He is pretty good with it on already, but tries to take it off as soon as he gets a chance. But he also does that with is Halti. ;) Sneaky lil......!
I would love to see a picture of your Duke. I am finding it rare to find a dog of his colour and markings. There is a pure bred Boxer near here, that is pretty similar. But more white in the face and not quite red like Sprint is.

love my dogs
August 30th, 2005, 08:59 PM
trying to add pic
http://www.pets.ca/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=&stc=1

love my dogs
August 30th, 2005, 09:02 PM
ok it worked.....wow big pic. This is Duke (last post) the day after we brought him home at 12 weeks old. He obviously looks dif now!. I'll dig up a more recent shot when I gat a chance. I just moved so things are still packed away. I couldn't tell with the muzzle if yours had a red nose or not.

gdamadg
August 30th, 2005, 09:33 PM
Here is a better picture of Sprint. Yes he has a red nose. They do look a lot alike. Sprint is a bit darker in the face I think though and doesn't have any white on his face, just his chest and toes. Oh and a few grey whiskers on his chin. Has Duke darkened at all?

love my dogs
August 31st, 2005, 12:02 PM
your sprint look looks like he has a more bully snout sthan Duke....Duke's snout is longer. Here are a few more pics I found. I had to throw in a couple more baby pics, to show his mean side.

love my dogs
August 31st, 2005, 12:03 PM
Watch out for the killer on the right.....he could snap at any given moment.

love my dogs
August 31st, 2005, 12:05 PM
Or is it dumb and dumber

love my dogs
August 31st, 2005, 12:07 PM
This is the last one I promise.

gdamadg
August 31st, 2005, 12:13 PM
I think it is the dark colouring of his nose that makes it look longer. But it is pretty much the same as Duke. He went from a cute lil guy to quite the handsome fella. The human in the pics, isn't too bad either. ;)

pittymomma
August 31st, 2005, 02:13 PM
QUOTE]This is going to be a huge problem because of that. Anyone that comes across a dog wearing a muzzle is more likely to show fear because most people think that dogs wearing a muzzle are aggressive. This will create serious behaviour issues. Far worse than what they think they have now.[/QUOTE]

I must admit that I have had far more people ask to come up to one of the dogs when they are waering their muzzles. Last night Lexxy and I were inundated with people wanting to pet her and ask questions etc. Very positive comments and she really wowed them by her "ho hum attitude " towards wearing the muzzle.

I think given the breed and their eagerness to please people most will accept the muzzle if introduced to it properly.


Thanks
Veronica

pitbulliest
August 31st, 2005, 09:30 PM
Just wanted to drop by this thread and let everyone know how extremely important it is that you obey this law and make your dog wear a muzzle when the 60 day grace period passes.......they DO and WILL take your dogs away from you when they have the chance....don't count on people being friendly and understanding....I'm definately not counting on second chances and I'm not taking the risk..obey the law and show that we ARE responsible pitbull owners....

Just thought I'd share my 2 cents. :)

twodogsandacat
August 31st, 2005, 10:26 PM
Seems appropriate to say it in this post. I HATE MICHAEL BRYANT.

My co-worker used to say things like “I hate Microsoft’, “ I hate McAfee” and “I hate McDonalds”. I suggested and she agreed that HATE was a very powerful word. She would reserve it for things that she really hated.

When I said I hated Michael Bryant, Dalton McGuinty and the Liberal party she called me on it. We agreed: I HATE Michael Bryant, Dalton McGuinty and the Liberal party.

Now that the Liberals are talking about more action on Hate Crimes I wonder if that extends to those that hate them. If so about half the people in Ontario are about to go to jail.

mona_b
August 31st, 2005, 10:48 PM
Just wanted to drop by this thread and let everyone know how extremely important it is that you obey this law and make your dog wear a muzzle when the 60 day grace period passes.......they DO and WILL take your dogs away from you when they have the chance....don't count on people being friendly and understanding....I'm definately not counting on second chances and I'm not taking the risk..obey the law and show that we ARE responsible pitbull owners....

Just thought I'd share my 2 cents. :)


Thank you..... :highfive:

I have been saying this many times in the past.And this is a serious matter.

If you all love your babies,then you will do everything you can to prove it.This means the muzzle,the S/N and the licence.And you know your dog is a Pit/X,be proud of it,don't try to lie and hide it.Cause you will make matters even worse if the dog snaps for some reason(yes it can happen)and attacks/mauls someone.Then they find out that he/she is a Pit/X,you will lose your dog,and pay the HUGE fine.

And think about this.You have licenced your dog under a different breed.So,you don't need to put a muzzle on him/her.Now all the reponsible Pit owners comply with the ban and muzzle their dogs.Is that fair?Why fight the ban and the breed you have?Show them you are responsible,prous Pit owners.Hope this all made sense...LOL

Also,as for this $10.000 fine,this doesn't just go for the Pits,it goes for ANY breed.

WHEW,did I get long winded or what?....LOL

babyrocky1
September 3rd, 2005, 12:19 PM
Well Rocky now has a wardrobe of muzzles, he has the nylon one that was just purchased too large in case I needed to fool the neighbours, the plastic cage, and one of those leather ones that they had o the Animal House Calls, Muzzles for the misunderstood. So far he tolerates the plastic cage one the best. I tell him where we are going, forinstance "the yard" and he will wear either one, knowing when we get there he will get off his leash and muzzle and be allowed to play kong. So far its easier than I thought but still sucks. Im n ow having MORE trouble with my old enemys....seems the extra publicity has excited them again! Our neighbourhood is taking sides, theres only a few "pit bull" type dogs here but the idiot I had posted about previously is recruiting "pit bull haters" and they have been snarling at us! I cant even walk through the park on my way to our "safe place" cause all their "good dogs" are running around OFF LEASH! The trouble is that when we were at the vigil, a bunch of us were talking later and Steve Barker from the DLCC told us that even a false complaint from a neighbour would result in them seizing your dog, you would then have to go to court and THEN they would have to prove there complaint. Forinstance, someone says they spotted your dog not wearing a muzzle, Steve was saying that they could come and take your dog with no proof whatsoever and then your in the legal system fighting to get him back. This is terrifying to me, these people hate me and my dog, Theres only a few of them but that all it takes. How many of us can afford to fight this kind of thing? Im hoping that level heads will prevail and they wont be tying up the legal system with false complaints, also you would think that most people wouldn't take it that far, if it went to court they would actually have to purger themselves...but then some people believe their own lies...so... Personally I really want some more legal advice! Specifically on what to do if we are accused of something, the whole law seems to be guilty till proven innocent, not just the determination of a pit bull, but the whole thing! Im hoping someone can tell me Im just being paranoid!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

babyrocky1
September 3rd, 2005, 12:22 PM
Im wondering if at some point we should take turns calling the free half an hour legal service, we could co-ordinate our questions so that we could get as much free advice as possible.

lezzpezz
September 3rd, 2005, 01:21 PM
...then I am paranoid too! As you know I don't own a pb or mix or any type related or not....but I have 3 big dogs and an a**hole neighbour and I am scared *****less!! I live in a constant state of "What if?".....always on edge, always extra cautious. I always check to see if my neighbour has left for the day when I first take my dogs out for their walk....just so I know what I'm up against. I purchased a new squirt water bottle to aim at Rosie if she starts to really bark....He hates when a dog makes noise, but especially mine, as we are directly adjacent to his property.

He's gonna be in for a shock when he sees that 2 new english bull terriers have taken up residence 2 doors down from him!! :p . And the mamma dog is quite dog-aggressive. I know this as this dog has attacked a the dog I was walking for a gent, totally unprovoked :eek: No harm done, 'cause I'm quick and the owner was all over that in an instant. He just opened the house door and ZOOM!!! out came his dog! Doubt that will happen again, but I know this dog is potentially dangerous as the owner has said as much and he always turns and crosses the street when he sees people out walking their dogs and he is out with his....never on a leash, I might add :mad:

I guess I will have to educate him now!

babyrocky1
September 3rd, 2005, 01:32 PM
I know LezzerPezzer, I feel as if I should be walking around looking at the ground incase someone decides they don't like ME! If I offend or have a disagreement with someone in the neighborhood then they can have my dog killed! I guess they could potentially have any dog seized under the menacing behaviour clause. This is Canada? And I have been standing up to the pit bull haters, so I could be in real trouble...Have we now effectively lost all of OUR rights because anyone has the power to cause us so much LEGAL harm to us? I mean suppose there are political issues were you live and your on one side and others disagree, if you speak out, they could accuse your dog of something and hes GONE! I can't believe that this is the case...we must have SOME legal protection.

love my dogs
September 3rd, 2005, 04:54 PM
Unfortunately, the law (and society) seems to work that way in all areas.

It's the 1st person to report that they beleive. Your neighbour could say that you threw rocks at his window, and you would be charged. They figure, why would he make something like that up?

If someone accuses you of anything, it is up to you to defend yourself. Sad but true.

Even look at our society. The government and the media have said our dogs are vicious and evil, and they (society) believe it. Because they say it, it's true? The onus is on us to convince them otherwise, and many will not even give us the chance to. They have already made up their minds.

I'm scared too, of being victimized. I'm scared that if I have to put a sign on my lawn advertising that I own a pitbull, I'll be targeted. Now that everyone has been convinced to hate pitties, I'm afraid some passionate pit hater will come into my yard when I'm not home and hurt my dog. I can just picture happy little Duke all excited to have a visitor, and then they hurt him, or steal him or kill him.

Me and Kayla
September 3rd, 2005, 10:05 PM
There's not a chance in hell that I'm going to put a sign out announcing that I have a pitbull. Besides setting myself up as a target, I'll probably never get mail delivery again.

babyrocky1
September 4th, 2005, 01:13 PM
Speaking of Mail....the post office union is one of the groups pushing for the million dollar liability ins.

mona_b
September 5th, 2005, 09:48 PM
when we were at the vigil, a bunch of us were talking later and Steve Barker from the DLCC told us that even a false complaint from a neighbour would result in them seizing your dog, you would then have to go to court and THEN they would have to prove there complaint. Forinstance, someone says they spotted your dog not wearing a muzzle, Steve was saying that they could come and take your dog with no proof whatsoever and then your in the legal system fighting to get him back.

I'm sorry,but I find this hard to believe.Where did he get this info from?This is new to me.

I know if I get a call with something like this,there is no way I will have your dog seized.They would have to prove this first,not after.Think about it,do you really think the shelters have room to seize dogs for a complaint like this?I really don't think so. :)

, I'm afraid some passionate pit hater will come into my yard when I'm not home and hurt my dog.

Then I suggest you keep him inside. :) Your dog doesn't have to be a Pit for it to get hurt outside when no one is home.

Also remember,if YOU and your dog are being terrorized,please get a hold of your local Police Dept and let them know.... :)

bluntman
September 6th, 2005, 06:12 AM
Steve Barker from the DLCC told us that even a false complaint from a neighbour would result in them seizing your dog, you would then have to go to court and THEN they would have to prove there complaint. Forinstance, someone says they spotted your dog not wearing a muzzle, Steve was saying that they could come and take your dog with no proof whatsoever and then your in the legal system fighting to get him back.
This law is so vauge and poorly written, that it could happen, but it really depends on where you live and who is doing the enforcement. I have spoken with the head of the spca in my area, and he assured me they will not be looking for pit bulls, or trouble. They will strictly be dealing with complaints only, and there must be proof, no he said she said. Our local police will not be dealing with this law at all, the city pays the spca to deal with dogs not the police. There may be cities or counties out there that will be looking for pit bulls, So you really need to find out who is responsible for inforcement in your area and talk with them, and ask questions, to find out all you need to do to protect you and your dog in your area, this bad law cannot be inforced equally in all parts of the province, becuse it is up to people in charge to decide what to do, it is not black and white like most other laws. I even asked what would happen if one my dogs was cleared here as not being restricted, and I went to visit in Oshawa, and was told my dog was restricted, he agreed there was NO provincial standerd to protect you or your dog from place to place. So untill this law is defeated, it up to us to protect ourselves, becuse no one else will.

Dukieboy
September 6th, 2005, 07:56 AM
Good news guys. I haven't been on for a while and I hope everyone and thier babies are well. I bought a new house with a H U G E yard. Its like having a small park out back. Now Duke and Wizard can run like the wind in thier own back yard!!!! No leash, no muzzle. I can't wait!!!!

BullLover
September 6th, 2005, 11:15 AM
Hey...Does anyone know about muzzles in training classes? I contacted an obedience school for my puppy and the trainer wasn't sure. She had written the government to ask if pitbulls need to be muzzled in obedience classes since it's private property. Not sure if this should go under training, but it is about the muzzle law.

babyrocky1
September 6th, 2005, 12:36 PM
Hey Congratulations Dukie Boy! you must be relieved and EXCITED- a new house and freedom for you pups-GREAT NEWS!

Dukieboy
September 6th, 2005, 12:42 PM
It is private property so it would be up to whomever owns the business or property.

babyrocky1
September 6th, 2005, 12:43 PM
Hey...Does anyone know about muzzles in training classes? I contacted an obedience school for my puppy and the trainer wasn't sure. She had written the government to ask if pitbulls need to be muzzled in obedience classes since it's private property. Not sure if this should go under training, but it is about the muzzle law. I think it would depend on the organization. Doesn't the law state that if an alleged pit bull is in an enclosed area that there must be an agreement from the others sharing the space, Im para-phrasing ofcourse, so it seems to me that the organization would either be for us or against us, there may be people who would not want to have there dogs in classes with "pit bulls" thanks to MB and company and the organization may be concerned about losing business. If this is the situation then we should demand that they change there policy and let the pits in. Try and get support from other dog lovers or find places that will stand up for whats right and let the pits in, un-muzzled, and make sure we get the word out that they are all breed friendly and try and support them. (Im sure that participants of these classes sign waivers) so I would think that it is completely legal to have the pits unmuzzled as long as others taking the class know that this is the situation. Id be very interested to know what the response is from these places.

babyrocky1
September 6th, 2005, 12:52 PM
This law is so vauge and poorly written, that it could happen, but it really depends on where you live and who is doing the enforcement. I have spoken with the head of the spca in my area, and he assured me they will not be looking for pit bulls, or trouble. They will strictly be dealing with complaints only, and there must be proof, no he said she said. . I am glad to hear that Bluntman, I spoke to the local Animal control recently and they didn't know who was enforcing it, they thought it would be the police. Im really glad to hear the "no he said she said", cause thats truly all Im worried about. Ive been so paranoid of my "enemies" down here that Im afraid to go NEAR them. They have already proven themselves vindictive enough to make things up as you guys know. If it ends up being the police that enforces this, which I highly doubt, I assume that theyll want some sort of proof because theyll be reaally P off to have to be bothered with this!

babyrocky1
September 6th, 2005, 01:00 PM
I'm sorry,but I find this hard to believe.Where did he get this info from?This is new to me.

I know if I get a call with something like this,there is no way I will have your dog seized.They would have to prove this first,not after.Think about it,do you really think the shelters have room to seize dogs for a complaint like this?I really don't think so. :)



Sorry Mona I was reading the new posts first and didn't see yours. As you can see I thought that the police would not take it seriously without some evidence, maybe not proof positive but something, but thats what the Dlcc is saying that the law says. Thats basically why the post, I think that the letter of the law probably does give those powers to whomoever is enforcing it. And then the queston is how will the body who is enforcing it use those powers, and WHY would they be given such absolute pwers in the first place. But your post and Bluntmans does help calm me down thats for sure! I will be trying to find out whoes enforcing this, I hope that it is with the AC down here cause they are really great and have a wonderful atitude towards PB type dogs..

BullLover
September 7th, 2005, 08:02 AM
Well, I still haven't heard back from one trainer about the muzzle thing in obedience classes, so I called a couple more. Three of which I didn't get an answer. The forth one that I called, which should have been the first, was amazing. The woman who runs the school has pitbulls and told me that she will not have dogs muzzled in her classes. Also, she stated that she would do this unless someone complains and she is told otherwise. Excellent! I put him in classes with a couple of small yappy dogs since this is where his problem usually lies....

lezzpezz
September 7th, 2005, 09:10 AM
The forth one that I called, which should have been the first, was amazing. The woman who runs the school has pitbulls and told me that she will not have dogs muzzled in her classes. Also, she stated that she would do this unless someone complains and she is told otherwise. Excellent! I put him in classes with a couple of small yappy dogs since this is where his problem usually lies....

Which school is it?? I would like to be able to share this info with others that wish to take their dogs their sans muzzle! This is great news! :p

BullLover
September 7th, 2005, 12:06 PM
K-9 Concepts. I haven't heard anything good or bad about the place. We are starting in two weeks, hopefully. Sadie goes in to get fixed on Friday.

love my dogs
September 7th, 2005, 12:46 PM
did you ask this nice lady if she will be speaking on the 12th? It is interesting that there are dog trainers that choose pitties for pets. Hmmm....you mean someone with knowledge about dogs would actually want to own one of these monsters? :eek:

babyrocky1
September 7th, 2005, 04:34 PM
Hey thats great Bulllover! Enjoy....its a really good idea if people can afford to do it, even if your dog is already trained, atleast if theyre taking a class its socialization that the poor pitties may not get any other way! Hurray for K9 concepts!

BullLover
September 7th, 2005, 06:06 PM
Well, I can't really afford it, but it will be good for the dogs to get to play with other dogs again.... :mad: It will be better for their well being.

babyrocky1
September 7th, 2005, 06:17 PM
I know the feeling Bull Lover this ban is already running into some serious money. Rocky has $100.00 worth of muzzles so far and I havent found the right one yet and you guys in LONdon, wow. If those bilaws go through...well its just unthinkaable. Anyway it sounds like you guys are more than ready to fight the "good fight" and were all rooting for you here :grouphug:

babyrocky1
September 7th, 2005, 06:20 PM
Hey, since theres so many of you in London, maybe you guys could get some sort of group discount, for the clases I mean, especially if theyre primarily for socialization. I know that some trainers will come to your space. I am thinking of getting something like this together in To. Its on another thread.