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What Do You Do?

shannon1233A
August 17th, 2005, 12:28 PM
You have found a microchipped, registered dog/cat which has been reported lost or stolen. Upon researching, you find out the animal comes from a less than reputable breeder, or maybe even a BYB. What do you do?

1. Return the dog to the unreputable breeder or BYB
2. Call a Rescue, report your finding the animal and provide them with proof of your suspicions re the breeder or BYB?
3. Keep the animal?
4. Deliever the pet to your vet, explain your situation and let them decide?
5. It depends on whether it's a suspected unreputable breeder or BYB
6. Other (please elaborate as to what you'd do and why so as to give the rest of us something to think about should this arise.

This poll is not to encourage any of the actions above, only merely address a moral issue we could someday face, nor does it assume to reflect the only options available should the situation arise.

CyberKitten
August 17th, 2005, 12:34 PM
It would depend on so many variables - is it a byb who means well but does not know better or a puppy millet? If it was the latter, I'd either keep the dog or bring it to a Rescue. As for the former, I'd do what I did with the cat who came to my doorstep. I'd feel ethically bound to return him to the family but pay for him to be neutered providing there was on responsible person in the family (in my case, it was the 12 year old child!)

happycats
August 17th, 2005, 12:35 PM
Don;t flame me......but......."keep the animal"!!!! :evil:

I know in the eyes of the law it's a piece of property, but in my heart I know it's a living breathing defenceless creature, deserving of a warm and loving home!

mom of rotties
August 17th, 2005, 12:37 PM
I found a dog yeaterday walking up my driveway. She is tatooed so I called the SPCA. They found her owners who dumped her on the side of the road. I will keep her here hoping that the SOB's who dumped her get charged and that she will reside in my home where she will be safe and loved forever.

shannon1233A
August 17th, 2005, 12:38 PM
Thanks you guys, first time making a poll, but finally got it, can you vote please, it's anonymous so no one sees how you voted, and you can feel free to delete your post if you're afraid of getting flamed!

happycats
August 17th, 2005, 12:42 PM
and you can feel free to delete your post if you're afraid of getting flamed!

Nope, I stand by what I posted (right or wrong) it's what I would do. So flame away :evil: I'm ready ;)

Puppyluv
August 17th, 2005, 12:43 PM
I agree.. it really does depend on the situation. If my dog ran away or was stolen I would pray that she would be returned to me, so if it seems to be a family's dog I would certainly return it to the owners. If it is from a puppymill, well that's a completely different situation.. in all, no short answer :o

nymph
August 17th, 2005, 01:17 PM
I don't really understand this, do you already have a scanner to scan the microchip? How do you know it's from a byb or a miller?

If I found a lost pet, I'd take the pet to our local humane society, they'll scan the pet and they'll be able to handle the situation.

shannon1233A
August 17th, 2005, 01:31 PM
Puppyluv, sorry I couldn't make the title of the poll longer, I'm talking strictly a pup that is from a suspected unreputable breeder or maybe even a BYB.

I think everyone would agree a loved family pet would be returned to it's owners, different situation completely. Most loving families don't breed and register many, many dogs and sell them. Talking just the aforementioned here.

Nymph, good question. Guess all I can say is in many smaller communities, when you see a relavtively not so common breed, with 11 puppies for sale in an online "Pets In A Day" for sale ad, or newspaper ad, more than once, you can generally reach the conclusion it's not a family pet. Reputable Breeders don't advertise that way, and the people involved stated it was microchipped. Also take into the consideration, they advertise they're dogs are Championed and Titled, but not so on the website, hence the ads are deliberately misleading. Taking those two things into consideration (selling online on pet and non pet sites, and lying in the ads, you could generally conclude they are not reputable breeders. As mona said, Reputable breeders don't need to lie and to advertise on the stated sites. If you check you the Lost forum, you'll see what we're talking about.

happycats
August 17th, 2005, 01:34 PM
I don't really understand this, do you already have a scanner to scan the microchip? How do you know it's from a byb or a miller?

If I found a lost pet, I'd take the pet to our local humane society, they'll scan the pet and they'll be able to handle the situation.

Nymph, I guess the question is if you "know" it's from a BYB.

If it was someones lost pet, I to would return it.

But if I knew it was an escapee from a BYB, I would keep it!
And "NO" I did not steal the newf pup, buuuut, if he happened to walk up my driveway.... ;) .......I just love Newf's!!!

Puppyluv
August 17th, 2005, 01:35 PM
Ahhh ok thanks for the clarification :)
That changes things then, I deffinately woulnd't be so quick to take the dog back to the owner if I was pretty sure it was a puppymill/byb.

Cinnabear
August 17th, 2005, 11:16 PM
So actually then you would be the purchaser even if you paid no money for the pup. So then where does this cycle stop? How does your actions make it right?

So how would you explain to your kids about stealing even though what they do is not right in your eyes?


A very grey question.

twinmommy
August 17th, 2005, 11:31 PM
If we are talking about a puppy mill dog, then I would keep it.

It's only a question of time before a dog like that gets dumped, and stealing him/her before yet another litter is a good thing.

These poor animals rights are so violated in those mills, it can only negate any possible argument.

so if you right a wrong situation--are you still wrong?

are we any less gray?? ;)

Prin
August 18th, 2005, 12:09 AM
Keep it, and if I can't then rehome it myself. :)

Joey.E.CockersMommy
August 18th, 2005, 08:30 AM
I would call the rescue and keep in contact with them as to what the outcome was. If the dog was suitable for us we may consider keeping it.

At this moment if a stray dog was to come upon us, which has happened before we wouldn't be able to keep it due to Joeys aggressive behaivior with other dogs, but I would certainly see to it that the dog is helped and point them in the right direction.

Melinda
August 18th, 2005, 08:45 AM
I would let the breeder know I had it, that I was keeping it, and also let them know I was reporting it.

BMDLuver
August 18th, 2005, 09:15 AM
It's a very grey area. In all honesty, if you are a registered non profit or charitable organization, by law you must return the dog to it's rightful owner, anything else would be considered theft and could very well result in the loss of Rescue Status.

If the said animal is receiving food, shelter, water and care then it is considered protected. If the dog is healthy and well cared for I don't think anyone has the right not to return the dog. The law is not based on how someone goes about establishing their breeding program but rather how the animals are cared for. If the animal is receiving vaccinations, health checks, worming program, microchipped, etc then although they might not be breeding a Champion to a Champion, they are trying to do their best. Sometimes kennels take some time to establish guaranteed breeding stock. I personally don't think I have the right to decide for them.

That's JMHO. I'm donning my flame suit now as Schwinn would say! :D

mona_b
August 18th, 2005, 09:36 AM
It's a very grey area. In all honesty, if you are a registered non profit or charitable organization, by law you must return the dog to it's rightful owner, anything else would be considered theft and could very well result in the loss of Rescue Status.

If the said animal is receiving food, shelter, water and care then it is considered protected. If the dog is healthy and well cared for I don't think anyone has the right not to return the dog.

Exactly.And this just doesn't go for rescues.This goes for everyone.You can and will be charged with theft.And the dog will be returned back to the owners anyway.So now you have a record.Something that really doesn't look good on you.

If I was to find a dog,I would definately do everything in my power to find the owner.I would not keep it.If the dog was found to be in bad shape,that's something the SPCA would have to deal with.

I know if I lost my dog,I would definately want him back.No questions asked.Just return him.

As for returning it to a puppy mill/BYB,how would your know it came from there?

Golden Girls
August 18th, 2005, 09:47 AM
It's a very grey area. In all honesty, if you are a registered non profit or charitable organization, by law you must return the dog to it's rightful owner, anything else would be considered theft and could very well result in the loss of Rescue StatusExcellent point.

Wudjah
August 18th, 2005, 10:26 AM
This exact situation happened to a friend of mine last year. She found a small breed dog in her area that was skinny & matted, yet obviously pregnant. She had the dog for 3 weeks before she saw a lost poster up at a vet and the dog had only be lost for approx. 3 1/2 weeks (ie couldn't have had much time to get that skinny&matted). The dog was being kept in a barn when she escaped and was found in a totally different area. She did call the owner anonymously and asked some vague questions (saying she might have seen a stray)....the people were less then reputable, definetely byb's. She ended up keeping the dog, raising the litter, and then placing them all in great homes (after being spayed).
If she had of brought the dog into the shelter, we would have been required by law to return her to the byb.

happycats
August 18th, 2005, 11:14 AM
This exact situation happened to a friend of mine last year. She found a small breed dog in her area that was skinny & matted, yet obviously pregnant. She had the dog for 3 weeks before she saw a lost poster up at a vet and the dog had only be lost for approx. 3 1/2 weeks (ie couldn't have had much time to get that skinny&matted). The dog was being kept in a barn when she escaped and was found in a totally different area. She did call the owner anonymously and asked some vague questions (saying she might have seen a stray)....the people were less then reputable, definetely byb's. She ended up keeping the dog, raising the litter, and then placing them all in great homes (after being spayed).
If she had of brought the dog into the shelter, we would have been required by law to return her to the byb.

Horray for your friend!!!! :thumbs up That's exactly why I said I would keep it!

nymph
August 18th, 2005, 01:56 PM
shannon1233 & happycats: thanks for the clarification! :thumbs up

If I know for a FACT that the dog is from a BYB, I would probably contact a rescue since I have no rescue experience, but definitely not returning the dog to the BYB.

sammiec
August 18th, 2005, 02:00 PM
I didn't vote... my answer would be to go to my vet and have the animal checked out and voice my concerns. Then I would keep the animal until I could find a forever home...

BUT finding a registered and/or microchipped animal from a non reputable breeder would be like them doing health testing! Few and VERY far between!!

shannon1233A
August 18th, 2005, 02:21 PM
Thanks for your input, it's much appreciated. With all due respect, regarding your BUT, do you mean non reputable breeders are few and very far between? If so, I'd ask that you check the AKC site as they have hundreds of pages of "reputable" Registered Breeders, who have registered dogs, who have been suspended for many things, that range from animal abuse to forgery and illegal registration of puppies as they weren't even purebred. The CKC is the same. Sorry if I misunderstood. Here's a link with suspended Breeders, it's unfortunate, and alarming/surprising how many and the reasons

http://www.barkbytes.com/suspend/suspindx.htm

I didn't vote... my answer would be to go to my vet and have the animal checked out and voice my concerns. Then I would keep the animal until I could find a forever home...

BUT finding a registered and/or microchipped animal from a non reputable breeder would be like them doing health testing! Few and VERY far between!!

Writing4Fun
August 18th, 2005, 02:44 PM
I think SammieC meant that finding a BYB or miller who microchips their animals would be few and far between. I think we all know that millers are a dime a dozen. ;)

Hmmm...sticky situation. I honestly can't say what I'd do until I was in the situation myself. It would all depend on what condition the animal is in at the time.

Cinnabear - the cycle stopped here for this one dog/cat because the miller/BYBer didn't actually receive any money for the animal, plus they lost potential breeding stock with no profit gained. That's their ultimate goal, the almighty dollar, so they lost in this particular case (if you kept the animal, that is).

My $0.02. :D

DogueLover
August 18th, 2005, 03:02 PM
I didn`t vote but I will say that I would definately want to know who the dog`s owner is according to the microchip.
I would think it would be against the law for someone to keep the dog if the owner was known. Actually, this was clarified for me by our local constable.
The byb`s and millers won`t pay for medical care for their dogs, they only want money, why would they microchip their dog and want to take it back? They couldn`t sell it again, and from the way the microchip works in my bordeauxs, the breeder and my contact and an alternate contact person are all registered with the mircrochip company.
If one of my dogues were to go missing and someone found them and concluded that they came from a byb or miller,then further decided not to return them to me,hell would break loose. I would lose my mind if someone had that odascity(sp?) and kept my dog. They would be facing charges of theft and based on what my dogues cost, the fines would include incarceration.
My opinion is that most byb and millers will not microchip their dogs, the owners more than likely would(especially if they paid a LOT of money for their dog) and would definately want their dog back.

sammiec
August 18th, 2005, 03:06 PM
I think SammieC meant that finding a BYB or miller who microchips their animals would be few and far between. I think we all know that millers are a dime a dozen. You got it chick, that's what I meant... sorry if my post wasn't too clear.

But I can't see that a miller or a BYB would be putting out the cash to make sure that the animals were ID'd and that they would be returned if lost or stolen. Being lost or stolen would probably be the best thign for those animals!