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Another on the same note

StaceyB
August 4th, 2005, 10:14 PM
I guess I am just getting tired of being taken advantage of, atleast that is what I feel is happening. These ridiculous gas prices are unreal. What can WE do to change them. Do we need to do what businesses do, STRIKE! You know if we all got together, I am talking large numbers and purchased as little as possible, car pooled, bussed etc. for even a couple of days. The amount of our money lost to them would be huge. Maybe then they would think again. They raise the price a little and we do nothing but take it, so they raise it again and again until it is so high none of us can afford to buy it. That money could be better spent somewhere else.

Puppyluv
August 4th, 2005, 10:20 PM
ahh yes, my whole family laughed at my dad when he came home from work one day with a "Smart Car"... I think he's laughing at all of us now... :p

Writing4Fun
August 4th, 2005, 10:25 PM
I believe people have tried to organize these "gas strikes" in the past. The problem is that we've all become so dependent on our vehicles. At least, here in Ontario, and specifically in the area where I live, people have to drive for an average of 1 hour to get to work, to different areas of the GTA, so using public transit or carpooling is very difficult to manage. Not to mention a lot of people just don't give a hoot. :rolleyes: So, it's almost impossible to tell people to stop using their cars, because a lot of them have no other way to get to work (or get to the train or bus, etc...).

I'll tell you, though, I think a lot of people (especially in my area) need to rethink things a little. They all drive down to TO for their jobs because the pay is "better". But, if they'd just sit back, think of how much money they'd save on gas, insurance, etc... if they found a job closer to home, they'd be able to take a pay cut and work closer, thereby saving the planet and their sanity at the same time (ie. less road rage). Just something to mull over, people!! :D

Prin
August 5th, 2005, 12:07 AM
I was waiting for somebody from Ottawa to complain about gas. I went there last weekend and my man and I were like kids in candy stores over there- gas in Ottawa is CHEAP!! You know what it is here? In Montreal and Laval?

106.9/L Can you believe that? 106.9!!!!! For REGULAR!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Luba
August 5th, 2005, 12:15 AM
We only drive one of the family cars now for the most part the 4 cylinder over the 6 cylinder reason : gas prices of course.

I don't remember the last time I filled up with gas but I also know we haven't had much of a break that way either.

Myself I wish I had a horse and cart and off I'd go to the store that way.

If things in communities were arranged differently everyone could bike or walk to where they needed to go. The design and infrastructure of cities is horrible.

More big box stores going up = more and more traffic lights to accomodate the so called safe flow of traffic in and out of the city.

If anyone knows Scarborough you'll know what I'm talking about, more and more traffic lights more and more stores. Home Depot, WalMart, super stores gallore everywhere. GET LOST we don't need you here! Don't give in to WAlMart Guelph keep them out of your community :D

So now we have these 'power centres' and new strip plaza's and Home Show's give me a break, how many stores does one city need?

Traffic is ALWAYS busy now and you stop and go stop and go and idiots that gave permits to the new design and new traffic lighting...DID YA THINK? Really did you stop for a moment to think WHY is there 5 traffic lights in a row none of which are timed properly. OMG you BIG DUMMIES!!! LMHO

There are streets i used to enjoy driving on now I completely avoid.

Boycotts used to work , now everyones a big wuss and everyone wants convenience.....humbuggers Boycott the nasties!!

Rick C
August 5th, 2005, 12:30 AM
I guess I am just getting tired of being taken advantage of, atleast that is what I feel is happening. These ridiculous gas prices are unreal. What can WE do to change them. Do we need to do what businesses do, STRIKE! You know if we all got together, I am talking large numbers and purchased as little as possible, car pooled, bussed etc. for even a couple of days. The amount of our money lost to them would be huge. Maybe then they would think again. They raise the price a little and we do nothing but take it, so they raise it again and again until it is so high none of us can afford to buy it. That money could be better spent somewhere else.

The price of a litre of gasoline is, I believe, about three times higher in Great Britain than it is in Canada.

I rented a Mercedes in London a couple of months ago and drove it to Cornwall and it was about $120 Canadian to fill it up . . . . and would probably be about $40 here.

Gas prices in Canada are actually pretty cheap in comparison to the rest of the world and, if you really looked at it, a giant chunk of what you pay at the pump is actually taxes applied by your government.

China and India, grossly inefficient users of energy but emerging economic powers, are the primary culprits of the higher trend in gasoline prices. That and the fact there hasn't been a new refinery built in America in 20 years due to environmental restrictions.

Take transit. . . . . meanwhile, I gotta go shopping for a bigger SUV pretty soon to haul Abby & Keeper around in!!! :sorry:

Rick C
www.goldentales.ca

Luba
August 5th, 2005, 01:13 AM
A BIGGER SUV? Omg's

Station wagon a go go? What ever happened to them.

Suburban's now there's a gas monster if there ever was one.

What I don't get...single people (no families) with big SUV's and VANs

Hey I know you may be able to afford a nice Escalade but is it really that convenient and appropriate.

I really do want a horse now. I'd rather pay for oats then gas and oil LOL
Not to mention insurance!! :p

Can we talk you outta the SUV upgrade to something else :D??? huh huh can we?

CyberKitten
August 5th, 2005, 01:51 AM
Blaming China and other developing nations won't cut it. We need to conserve and drive smaller cars. There is a reason gas is more expensive in Europe - they are actually more understanding of conservation than some of us. We need to make Kyoto work for one thing but that just barely scratches the surface, sighhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

We started off on not a bad track in the so called energy crisis of the early 70's but we did not learn then. And as an aside, I have also wondered when Canada exports the same amt of oil to the US as does Saudi Arabia that the Saudis are seen as so much more powerful (well a few of them anyway?).

We all need to smarten up - and I include myself in that. I am getting a Smart Car and if I do meet a moose with it, it'll prob just drive under the animal!

StaceyB
August 5th, 2005, 01:57 AM
Ouch, wouldn't want to pay either of those prices. I don't even want to pay what they are charging here.
My husband told me tonight that Ottawa was the worst city I assume in ON for road rage.
Those car manufacturers are just pumping out the smart cars and laughing all the way to the bank. A very good idea though.
If we would only make a stand and stop these prices. This is why the gov't does what they want. They decide to do something, we say nothing or atleast not enough of us and they get away with it.

Dogastrophe
August 5th, 2005, 07:54 AM
The price of a litre of gasoline is, I believe, about three times higher in Great Britain than it is in Canada.

I rented a Mercedes in London a couple of months ago and drove it to Cornwall and it was about $120 Canadian to fill it up . . . . and would probably be about $40 here.



It's very interesting that when fuel prices started to rise in Europe 10+ years ago to mentality was to design and get people to buy small fuel efficient vehicles while in North America the mentality is to complain about the price of fuel as you are pulling up to the pumps in you H2 Hummer and Canyonario. I saw my first Smart car 6 years ago when I was in England; we are just starting to see them on this side of the pond.

BTW, I've heard that Mercedes is coming out with a 4 seater Smart car within the next couple of years. That should be just big enough to cram the wife and dogs into. :)

Puppyluv
August 5th, 2005, 09:12 AM
BTW, I've heard that Mercedes is coming out with a 4 seater Smart car within the next couple of years. That should be just big enough to cram the wife and dogs into. :)

Unfortunately for us, the "Smart for 4" is limited to the European market and Mercedes has no plans of bringing them to North America. :( but it makes it a very interesting trip when my dad drives the dog to the vet in the "smart for 2" :D

chico2
August 5th, 2005, 09:23 AM
You mentioned"Smart car"manufacturers are laughing all the way to the bank,actually they are not,people are not buying these ugly little tincans.
As for public Transit,it's not an option for many,like hubby,driving from Oakville-Woodbridge,non rush-hour.Changing jobs is also not an option...but he's weeks from retiring..Yeah!!
For about a year now,we've been buying gas later at night,for some strange reason it's at least 1 cent or more lower at night,so look around and you shall find cheaper gas.

Puppyluv
August 5th, 2005, 09:29 AM
You mentioned"Smart car"manufacturers are laughing all the way to the bank,actually they are not,people are not buying these ugly little tincans.

Maybe not in Ontario, but Calgary and Montreal are both swarming with them, and Europe has been driving them for decades....

Rick C
August 5th, 2005, 09:47 AM
Blaming China and other developing nations won't cut it. We need to conserve and drive smaller cars. There is a reason gas is more expensive in Europe - they are actually more understanding of conservation than some of us.

No, being conservation minded really has nothing to do with it . . . . economic pressure from high gas prices drives the decision to more fuel efficient vehicles, not the goodness of the heart concerned with the environment.

If you want people to drive knobby little crap boxes then triple gas prices through taxes and that's what will happen . . . . you can trust the shallowness of the average person and their wallet in that regard.

Appealing to their concern for the environment is historically a losers game.

A few years ago, with oil hovering around $10 a barrel and gas prices correspondingly priced, SUV sales were soaring, all in spite of the obvious harm to the environment.

As oil prices have risen, SUV sales have fallen. A direct relationship.

Tax the crap out of gas. Make parking hard and expensive as they do in Europe. Make it inconvenient and expensive to drive . . . . THEN you'll save the environment.

In college in the mid-1970's, I had a prof who drove a gigantic blue, smoke belchin, boat of a cadillac in the middle of the Middle East Oil crisis and the idealistic among us publicly queried him on this.

"Don't you care about the environmnent? Why do you drive such an obvious monstrosity?"

Answer: "Because I can afford it. HAH, HAH, HAH, HAH!!"

I'll never forget that answer or the laugh.

Regarding Kyoto, lean on India and China first and other massive polluters and inefficient users, THEN you can sell Kyoto in the USA and Canada.

Rick C
www.goldentales.ca

Dogastrophe
August 5th, 2005, 10:05 AM
Maybe not in Ontario, but Calgary and Montreal are both swarming with them, and Europe has been driving them for decades....

The dealer in Halifac had presold their allotment long last year months before the car arrived in N.A. I am starting to see more and more show up on the streets.

chico2
August 5th, 2005, 10:08 AM
I agree,Rick...In Sweden,where you can find NO coalfired plants,but thousands of windpower energy producers,at least 50%of the cars are small Volvos or other small cars
Garbage is being shuted directly to a facility where it's converted in to energy(don't know how to explain it properly!)they do everything right,but across the Baltic sea there is Russia spewing pollution...nothing will change as long as some countries cannot or will not abide by the Kyoto accord.
Also in any city in Europe,it would not make sense to drive a bigger car,public transit is excellent,where ours here in Canada,at least where I live is not an option.It's not too bad if you work 9-5,but not everyone does.
The strange thing is,SUV purchases are actually up,you see more and more on the street,while Smart Cars are often used for Pizza delivery or promoting some company,I might see one a week.. :D

Schwinn
August 5th, 2005, 10:32 AM
While fuel is more expensive in other countries, they are less reliant on thier vehicles than we are. Comparatively speaking, very few people have to commute the distances to work we do here. Find a job closer to home? Very difficult for many professionals, as the city is where a lot of the companies are moving to. Move into the city? Not if I want to trade in my house for an apartment with no yard to move my family into. Our home is about 1/3 of what it would be in the city. Even moving 20 mins south the the city my wife works in would add $100 grand to the price.

The problem with the theory of rasing gas prices to get people out of the SUVs is it hurts the people who can't afford them to begin with. What do you do about the people who already drive little cars because that is all they can afford? Raise gas tax, and they can't afford to drive those either. Unfortunatly, saying they can switch to public transit isn't the answer. The train I take to the city, and the bus I take home both run on diesel. I've already had several increases in my ticket price because of the increase in gas prices.

The bottom line is, the gas companies have a "we screw you because we can" attitude. Yes, the price of oil has gone up, but so have the profits. If the price of gas was soley the effect of the price of oil, profits would be stagnant. Petro-Canada a couple of years ago started putting those cute little pie charts on thier pumps, showing 1% profit on a litre of gas. Since then, that has changed to 2% then 3%. My buddy the other day saw one that showed 4%. Also, why do I pass one station and see 98/L, then pass the other one down the road, same gas company, 92/L? And how come both stations are literally 8/L cheaper on my way home? Guess what? Because most people on the way to work will pay whatever they have to, because they need to get to work. On the way home, they aren't as anxious to have a full tank.

The other arguement I heard was "Well, you pay $1.50 for a litre of Coke." Guess what, if I was buying 65 L of Coke at time, I'd be paying a lot less.

At any rate, we bought a Mazda5. Handles better than the Civic Si we traded in, 4 cylinder, 5 speed, seats 6 (comfortably!), and despite the sliding doors, IT'S NOT A VAN! (i've been yelling that at my family for a week now). Now, when it comes time to trade in the RED RANGER...I'd love to get one of the new hy-brids, but guess what? You pay $10 000 more for the same vehicle. It'll take a LOOOONG time to make that up in gas savings, so it's tough to justify buying a vehicle that is also more expensive to repair.

Bottom line--gas companies suck. No, wait, they'd have to get better to suck!

/end rant

marko
August 5th, 2005, 10:58 AM
Here in Montreal - prices 'seem' to fall on Monday tuesday, wednesday.

and they seem to rise on thursday just in time for the weekend.

so...fill up at the beginning of the week.

I have actually been paying attention to this phenomenon for at least 2 months now and for at least 2 months this is usually the case.

My father has been raving about this for 20 years.

pags
August 5th, 2005, 11:03 AM
Oh nooo.. gas prices and SUVs. This is such a difficult thing for me. As many of you know we moved to this town to eliminate my husband's long commute to work every day. Before the move (and before the hiked gas prices) we were paying close to $400 US per month for gasoline for HIS CAR alone. A gas guzzler by no means either -- a tiny little fuel efficient ugly box of a car.

Well so we have moved and we're very fortunate about the timing... we would have starved to death had we not -- for there is NO way we could have afforded the fuel at these prices. The cheapest gas is $2.29 US per gallon right now in our area (I have no idea what the conversions are because I'm a stereotypically lazy American... :D ) It has been three months since any of us have actually filled up a tank with gas. We have no choice but to buy the dollar amount of gas that we bought before... Even though that translates to a whole lot less gas... I don't drive at all if I can help it. But like Luba said -- infrastructure is SO bad. Especially in places like here where the nearest store is at least 5 miles out from the neighborhoods and there is no mass transit here.

Ah but where we really get stuck is having a family. Yes - I have an SUV to cart the kids in. A car that seats four would not help us at all as we would have to buy two and take them everywhere in tandem. Children cannot sit in the front seat here... So they are automatically relegated to second row.. Which means there is room for three children tops. If one of them is in a car seat - things get really crowded fast. Ah but three is merely an inconvenience. We will soon have four.. And two car seats. And no one is old enough to sit in the front seat other than my husband and I. Add to this that state law also does not allow a carseat to be installed with a lap belt... meaning no carseats in the middle of a backseat. So it's either two cars or something with a third row seat.

Sigh. Luckily we moved to a neighborhood where the school is actually located within the neighborhood and I can walk the kids there each morning.

Oh -- but .. could somebody tell me why gas at its highest is $2.49 US per gallon for premium... but a gallon of milk is $2.99 US per gallon? :p And I'm really glad our cars don't run on orange juice at $4.19 per gallon......

Luba
August 5th, 2005, 11:44 AM
I wouldn't mind a smart car but to me safety wise they're relatively 'stupid' in that dept.

I wish the manufacturer would make a nice big bumper on the back of it, to uh prevent your HEAD from getting crushed in a rear ender.

A local guy sells them here drives one home now and then....dont' think I could get Sadie in there though, not comfortably anyway.

Anyone see the commercial (car commercial) with the dog that puts on a helmet before getting in the car..very funny!

nymph
August 5th, 2005, 11:51 AM
RickC I have to disagree with you on developing coutries being the culprit of the price hike. As far as I know, people in China are much more energy conscious than North Americans. They are energy conscious not necessarily because they are environmentally conscious, but because energy costs are much more expensive in reference to the standard of living. For example, how many of us turn off water during the shower? or turn off the light when we leave a room? North Americans are in fact the biggest polluters.

Dr. David Suzuki suggested that gas price should be increased to $10/L, then people would REALLY start to think about the environment.

I take bus to work, that's the best way to beat the gas price.

Luba
August 5th, 2005, 11:55 AM
David Suzzzzzuki I love that man!

CyberKitten
August 5th, 2005, 12:07 PM
I disagree Rick - we can't blame China and India. They just want to be like us and can you blame them? We are still the biggest polluters (NA I mean) - with our reliance on fossil fuels. Until we really start putting money into solar, geothermal and other alternate energies, we have only ourselves to blame. I once introduced Amory Lovins (Soft Energy Paths et al) at an alternate energy fair and he has great ideas, but the oil industry is a powerful lobby - as someone involved in politics, I know how much they give to parties.

My point is we have known about the declining oil reserves for decades but we have done NOTHING about it. Conservation helps a little - I did not mean to suggest it it the only thing we can do - but it is something. I myself have becme complacent and drive a gas guzzler but I also carpool (like that can absolve me, lol Hardly!!). I need to go back to my thinking of the 70's!!! (Lord, I've lost my way, lol)

Seriously, only when soiety invests real money into alternate energies will be save the planet and gas prices at the same time.

And Schwinn is right - in Canada we do not have the luxury of not driving given how big we are as a country. So we need to think how we can address that - smart cars - and I do not think they have to be boxy and small (a Mercerdes you say - I want one!!!). Surely there are creative engineers in Detroit and the Japanese places they make cars.

StaceyB
August 5th, 2005, 12:12 PM
Here in Ottawa we are starting to see more and more smart cars.

nymph
August 5th, 2005, 12:22 PM
Invest in public transportations. It would take my colleague about an hour and half to drive from Oakville to Pearson during rush hours, but only about 45 minutes taking the go-transit.

In huge metropolitans like Chicago, New York or Tokyo, public transportation is so much easier to access than driving. I think some of Canadian cities are heading that way as well.

nymph
August 5th, 2005, 12:29 PM
Here in Ottawa we are starting to see more and more smart cars.

Yay, and aren't they cute?! However I really don't think one would need a Smart in Ottawa.

Puppyluv
August 5th, 2005, 12:44 PM
Smart Cars are a little more practical in cities like Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver.... People always joke that my dad could park his smart car in any of his neighbours' pick ups (as he lives in calgary) But for the safety issue, they are deceivingly safe; even though every other car on the street towers above it, the crumple zones are really good (a page taken from mercedes' other cars)

badger
August 5th, 2005, 01:36 PM
I heard that in the eighties, when alternate energies such as solar were beginning to be viable (although expensive), the big oil companies began buying up the technology, essentially to supress it. Of course they didn't succeed but they certainly slowed it down at a critical time. Which is why they are about to drill up in Alaska, devastating yet another natural area for paltry returns.

Of course you're right Cyber, China and India want what we've got (and will lament later, as we do now, for all the things they have lost on the altar of profit) but I don't see anything wrong with making pollution control a criteria of, say, belonging to the WTO. Being responsible should be part of belonging to the "big boys" club. The problem is, we're at the end of the line here on the self-destruction continuum, we've left it too long. The United States' pandering to industry will come back to haunt them, and their scepticism (despite a mass of solid science) only serves to infect others with the same I'M OK attitude.

I'm optimistic about India - I read a few Indian blogs, and I think there is a very smart, educated, humanistic generation coming up there, who have travelled, and reflected. China I think will be a huge problem, for many reasons. At the moment, they seem willing to countenance all kinds of human-made tragedies and abuses to bolster their bottom line. But we alienate them at our peril.

mafiaprincess
August 5th, 2005, 01:49 PM
I saw a smart car on the 401.. it was an accident waiting to happen.. Putting along at 90-95 in the right hand lane. Even the joked about little 'old ladies' who are always yelled about for driving slow were passing it. I'd be scared what would happen to it in a collision.

I buy my gas late at night. Price was 94.5 during the day the other day, and I got gas for 88.8 at 11pm.

If we didn't have an agreement to ship alberta oil out of Canada into the states gas could be a normal price. There would be more than enough to serve Canada, and about 1/3 left to export. At the prices we are paying why not buy venusulian crude, it's costing the same as buying american.

Prin
August 5th, 2005, 01:54 PM
Marko- I have been watching the gas prices since I was 16. Usually the best time to buy gas is at 1AM on Thursday morning. You get the super for the price of the medium, and the price has not yet gone up for the weekend (Thursday morning). Tuesday evenings are also ok sometimes.

What I find Fishy (with a capital F) is that they blame it all on the stock market, but Saturdays and Sundays the market is closed and the price still fluctuates. Liars!

Dogastrophe
August 5th, 2005, 02:19 PM
I wouldn't mind a smart car but to me safety wise they're relatively 'stupid' in that dept.

I wish the manufacturer would make a nice big bumper on the back of it, to uh prevent your HEAD from getting crushed in a rear ender.



I sat in one the other day and they are suprisingly roomy inside, from a driver standpoint. From the seats to the windo they are similiar in size to a Toyota Echo, Honda Civic, etc. In essence they are a high end safty cage surrounded by exterior panels.

Writing4Fun
August 5th, 2005, 02:21 PM
I saw a smart car on the 401.. it was an accident waiting to happen.. Putting along at 90-95 in the right hand lane.
I think that has more to do with the driver than the car. I saw a Smart Car on the 401 as well. We were doing ... well ... slightly more than the speed limit, and they passed us quite handily. ;)

Public transit is great, but with the size of the GTA and the fact that people are coming from outside the GTA as well, it isn't really working very well. I'd like to see more alternatives: telecommuting, more jobs outside of the Toronto core, alternative fuels (not only for cars, but for homes as well - windmills, solar panels, etc...). I would soooo love to put solar panels on my roof or a windmill in my yard, if only it were more affordable.

Luba
August 5th, 2005, 03:02 PM
I found a little info was curious:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/crashtest/car/12/

Nothing on this site about rearenders....

Because of its size a great deal of effort has gone into its safety aspects, but not all work satisfactorily. The car is very strong and stiff in a frontal impact and sustained virtually no damage to the cabin. But the restraint systems have to work hard because of this stiffness and this showed in the loading on the passenger's chest and the driver's upper legs. Of concern in the side impact was that the dummy's head hit the rail above the door. As tests use a passenger dummy it was not possible to test the Smart child restraint, which is made to fit the passenger's seat.

Frontal Impact
The driver's and passenger's airbags worked well but the restraint system for the passenger presented a high risk of injury to his chest. The driver's shins struck a die-cast beam which runs across the car. Although this has padding and a deformable element in front of it, the loading on one of the driver's upper legs was still very high. However, the footwell was hardly deformed, presenting little risk to feet and ankles.

Side Impact
The performance of the standard car was good but with a concern that the dummy's head hit the rail above the door. In this car there was no padding in this area and a more substantial contact could occur with a different size of occupant. The only loss of points to the side impact score was from the abdomen that was loaded by the protruding armrest.

Child Restraint
A child restraint can only be fitted in the passenger's seat, where the airbag poses a very real threat of severe injury or death for a child. Although we did not test the restraint system, the warning to parents about this hazard was inadequate. A child can only be safe in this position if a Smart restraint is used which, when fitted, turns off the airbag. But a universal restraint will also fit: this combination would be lethal.

LL1
August 5th, 2005, 03:08 PM
I wish more people in Toronto and the GTA would use public transit,Go buses and GO trains go to many areas now.

Puppyluv
August 5th, 2005, 03:46 PM
One big negative to the smart car: No Cupholders!!!!!! :eek:

nymph
August 5th, 2005, 03:58 PM
I would soooo love to put solar panels on my roof or a windmill in my yard, if only it were more affordable.

This has been my dream too, I even seriously looked into this, but gave up on the idea due to cost.

nymph
August 5th, 2005, 04:20 PM
I once read an article on National Geographic - Peru's Long Haul - about the need to build a transoceanica highway in Peru linking the Amazon to the Pacific Ocean. It was an interesting realization for the author. At first he was dead against it because such highway would only be built at the cost of million acres of rainforest and nature lands, in short an ecological disaster. However after he personally took the slow-moving bus and travelled through the dirt roads of Peru, his conclusion was "these people do need a highway".

Every single developed country had done tremendous damage to the Earth some point during its development. What would US or Canada be right now if someone has forbidden them to build major highways? It's not fair just to point fingers at the developing countries without truly understanding what the social and economic impacts are for the people.

background reading: http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0306/feature5/

chico2
August 5th, 2005, 04:36 PM
The way people talk about SUV's as the culprits in high gas-prices,pollution and the hot weather :D ,to me just defies logic..
The millions of Vans out there,many which take just as much gas as any SUV,some even as expensive to purchase.Why does anybody need a big Van??any more than an SUV?
We have a 5,9L Jeep Grand Cherokee driven in the winter,we knew upon purchasing it,it would be a guzzler,our smaller car we use all summer.
But when the snowplow deposits all the snow at the end of my drive-way(corner-lot)only the Jeep will get me through it.
I wish everyone would have the opportunity to drive an SUV during a snowstorm,it gets you where you want to go,no matter what.
Could you say the same about a Smart-Car??
We drive south every october and although it takes more gas than our little Volvo,we still take the Jeep.It's comfortable,has all the luxuries we could think up and it's roomy,for all the stuff I bring home from the US south :D
Would I drive all those highways in a Smart Car,not on your life!!
Saying a Smart Car,is safe also defies logic,which tells me,the bigger the car the less likely you are to be squished.
I can see it as a shopping-car,whipping around town,but where do I put my groceries,big cat-litter-bags,my case of beer?? :D The lumber I might buy,or my plants??
As I hear,it is also not all that cheap to buy,otherwise it might be great for a student...

Rick C
August 5th, 2005, 05:24 PM
India and China are the new players in the global energy consumption picture, two large factors that haven't been there in past oil cycles.

Moreover, their use of energy per economic unit of production is grossly inefficient when compared to modern western economies.

That was my only point.

I wasn't "blaming" them for anything.

I was simply stating facts in relation to their impact on what you pay at the pump in Elbow, Saskatchewan.

If its politically incorrect to state the obvious then boo hoo!! :sorry: :crazy: :fingerscr

China and India are in fact importing inflation - driving oil and base metal prices higher - and exporting deflation (about 50% of the low priced items on the shelves at Wal-Mart come from China).

We're probably about 18-24 months away from a collapse in oil prices.

The bottom line is, the gas companies have a "we screw you because we can" attitude. Yes, the price of oil has gone up, but so have the profits.

Good. I own a lot of oil stocks!!

As I said earlier, a big chunk of what you pay at the pump for gasoline is tax courtesy of your local government and if you want to discourage larger, inefficient fuel-consuming vehicles, you'll jack taxes through the roof, invest the proceeds in public transportation and other green initiatives.

In Calgary in recent days, there was a story that parking is becoming severely tight downtown but there is a deliberate plan not to add more space, driving the price of parking higher and forcing people onto transit . . . . . except they seem to be lagging in getting new C-Trains to take on the extra flow.

Mixed messages like that don't help.

Rick C
www.goldentales.ca

Luba
August 5th, 2005, 05:29 PM
ROTFLMA @ 'we screw you because we can'

For a minute I thought you were talking about Politicians or wait, insurance companies oh wait funeral homes or wait your boss ROTFLMHO :crazy:

nymph
August 5th, 2005, 06:58 PM
"we screw you because we can"

Answer: "Because I can afford it. HAH, HAH, HAH, HAH!!"

:cool: :crazy: :angel:

LavenderRott
August 5th, 2005, 07:48 PM
HAH! A subject I actually know something about!

Having run gas stations for several years, I can tell you that your local retailer isn't making a fortune off the gas he/she/they sell. Typically, your gas profits cover the maintance of the property and the cost of what you stock on the shelves. If you sell a lot, and I do mean a lot, then you may be able to squeeze employees wages out of that too. But to do that you had better watch your labor hours closely and the owner or salaried manager had better be putting in some serious hours. On average, the price of gas is about .10 higher then the cost.

Yes, gas prices typically go up on late Wednesday afternoon or early Thursday morning. Yes, this is because more people fill up to go on weekend trips, etc. Again, since you are trying to get all of your operating costs out of your gas profits, it is nice to try to keep your gas profits as high as you can.

Most cities in the U.S. don't have mass transit. I have never lived anywhere that did. So, if you have more then two children and a spouse, you have to have a bigger car. Since I have 3 kids, a spouse and a couple of dogs, I have a big Chevy AstroVan. It will probably cost me about $75 to $80 to fill it up next time since gas here is at a whopping $2.50 a gallon.

Oh, and don't bother boycotting your local gas station. I promise you, if you can manage to get enough people together to slow down gas sales, then the price of everything else they sell will go up accordingly. (Personal experience tells me though, that the day before a "boycott" everyone fills up and my sales were through the roof.)

Prin
August 5th, 2005, 08:08 PM
I don't know about the Smart cars. Chrysler is not notorious for building the safest small cars... With Mercedes involved, it might be better but if it was a Honda or Toyota smart car, then I'd be more confident.

twinmommy
August 5th, 2005, 11:49 PM
ahh this.

I have also noticed that they constantly play relativity games with the price.

It goes up to 102/L , then down to 98, then up to 106/L, and hovers there for a while so that when it goes back down to 102--we are actually happy about it. !!!???

Best part is, most of us notice and still do nothing!!

I'm sure you've all gotten that email by now about boycotting...buying only a certain company in the hopes to "sink" all the big ships as they have no choice to cave and put their pricies down if they want to sell any gas..

Do you guys think this coudl work?

And where's the spell chekc on this??? :o

Schwinn
August 5th, 2005, 11:52 PM
One big negative to the smart car: No Cupholders!!!!!! :eek:

That's because there isn't room inside for your Big Gulp. You need to hold it out the window.

For anyone who thinks about safety being direct relation to the size of the car, consider this--a formula one car comes up to just above my knees, and at 5'8", because I work out, I can't really fit inside one. Yet drivers get in high-speed wrecks all the time and walk away. Granted, there is a lot more technology that goes into them, but it just goes to show that size doesn't necessarily dictate safety. As a matter of fact, one of the worst cars for passenger safety in an accident was an SUV. I forget which one, though.

The tax theory is a great theory, unfortunately, at this point it is just that. For example, I commute from Newmarket every day. In the morning, there are only three trains going south, and in the evening, three trains going north. There are a couple of buses, but they too only go one way in the morning and evening. My last bus leaves at 6:30 pm. Tonight, I had to run to catch it, otherwise, I was calling family to drive down and pick me up. This is unacceptable for many people. For me, fortunatly with a 6 week old daughter, I want to get home every night and not hang around downtown. But for a lot of people, it is unacceptable that a public transit system would dictate thier schedule. The investment that would be required to bring it up to the standards needed to actually make it conveniant would be in the millions, possibly billions of dollars. Unfortunatly, that won't happen anytime soon. And even if the money were invested, there'd have to be further subsidy for the tickets. One way downtown costs about $15. I can drive to the city for less than that, and depending exactly where I want to go, I might be able to park and still save cash (if you know where the good lots are). And as I mentioned before, I have seen several cost increases, and the reason given was because of fuel costs. Maybe if the government offered to allow transit fuel to be purchased tax free, we'd see ticket prices drop, but I'll have to put that on my list of things to hold my breath for.

And yes, it is the oil companies that are controlling the prices, not the individual stations. While the stations have a certain amount of control, it is ultimately the oil companies pulling the strings. But honestly, I don't even care anymore who's fault it is. At this point, I think we're getting screwed, and I don't care by who. I'm tired of it. When I was a banker, I had a stock ticker on my desk which included the price of oil. Guess what? There was very little correlation with fluctions in oil and gas, except when oil went up, gas went up almost immediately, but when oil dropped, there was very little movement in the price at the pump.

And I do agree with you Rick about oil stocks. Unfortunately, ironically enough, I haven't been playing the markets as much as I'd like because I've had to spend so much more of my income on my monthly gas bill.

Prin
August 5th, 2005, 11:54 PM
because I work out, I can't really fit inside one.
Yeah, because you work out... Uh huh. :D :clown:

Prin
August 5th, 2005, 11:57 PM
As a matter of fact, one of the worst cars for passenger safety in an accident was an SUV. I forget which one, though. Most of them are not safe. Toyota SUVs and pickups have historically been the safest. Nissan and Jeep are among the worst. Bigger is not better. Even in a crash with another SUV, people in some well-built smaller cars would survive with less injury than in a huge SUV. I just don't trust Chrysler for safety.

Sorry I forgot all this in my previous post because I was so overwhelmed by that statement that I just forgot everything else... :o :D

Schwinn
August 6th, 2005, 12:06 AM
Yeah, because you work out... Uh huh. :D :clown:

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it! :p

Actually, my point really was that I'm not a huge guy, but because I'm probably bigger than your average 5'8" person, I don't fit. Ergo, it's really tiny inside. So nyah!

StaceyB
August 6th, 2005, 12:20 AM
That is a great idea about picking one gas station to purchase from. I heard the the gov't was selling off their stocks in the gas companies but am not sure whether they did it or not yet. Pick one that isn't partially owned by gov't. Maybe CT then we also get the bucks. If a group were to contact CT saying that if they promised to set their prices at a lower cost for set period of time, we would only purchase from them. Lessen consumption of gas, if you don't absolutely need it don't get it. Everyone else would have to suffer, and probably cause an uproar. Also right at the start, everyone on the road stops or parks for say a 1/2 hr, including transit. Do you know what that would do to the country. Maybe we should stop all purchases for that half hour as well. Man, if the whole country were to do it, maybe just maybe they would begin to understand.
We are in a vicious circle, manufacturers increase cost, distributers charge more, retail charges even more and we get screwed. If we refuse to buy, retail can't sell, distributers don't deliver, manufacturers are stuck with it.
But like everything that is done to us, we sit back and b**ch but do nothing.

Schwinn
August 6th, 2005, 12:28 AM
Unfortunately, although there are dozens of gas station companies, there are less than a handful of refineries. Most stations purchase thier fuel from the same couple of companies, the ones who are setting the prices. You may close a station, but it won't hurt the oil companies who set the prices, that's the real reason why boycotts haven't worked, it doesn't hurt those who set the screws.

StaceyB
August 6th, 2005, 12:47 AM
I would hate to think that we should just take it because it is hard to do something about it. There has to be a successful way to hit them. Nothing happens in this country unless enough take a stand.

Prin
August 6th, 2005, 03:14 AM
I thought that here there were only two. Imperial Oil and Shell.

melanie
August 6th, 2005, 05:59 PM
I THINK IT IS WONDERFUL THAT GAS OR PETROL IS SO EXPENSIVE, I CANT WAIT TILL IT GETS TO $2-3 ltr, then perhaps humans may use their resources at a minimum andthe price can truly reflect the use of the resource.....

fuel is one ofthe cheapest fuels on the planet, a litre of milk or coke cost more than a litre of fuel...YET the activities that recover this resource and its effects on the planet and human health are just phenominal and we are definatly making sure there will be no oil or gas resource for future generations, seems selfish to me and $2 a litre is only fair compensation for that destruction of a resource that will enver be replaced...

there is talk that in 50yrs our oil and feul resources will be so minimal that only the rich can drive, and the rest of us will have to adapt, now if anything that should spur everyone to be sensible about it... but as humans we are often so selfish and dont care for anyone elses future including natures, if we did we probably would nto be having this discussion i suppose...

but raise those prices, if ppl cannot be responsible on their own and use resources wisely then hit the purses i say, often that the only way to make ppl care, charge them for it and it may help..

yay for expensive fuels..hopefully we can use this resource more sustainably uinstead of the free for all we now experience, in that its your for the right price...

Prin
August 7th, 2005, 02:27 AM
I like the prices as long as the number of gas-guzzling behemoths goes way down like in Europe. But we need narrower streets too... :evil: (sorry Chico... I know you love your Jeep, but it wouldn't fit on my roads..)

nymph
August 7th, 2005, 04:42 PM
I would hate to think that we should just take it because it is hard to do something about it. There has to be a successful way to hit them. Nothing happens in this country unless enough take a stand.

Buying smaller fuel efficent cars would do just that. Taking public transportation would be another one.

In the short-term, fuel price is almost perfectly inelastic, meaning that you'd need to fill that tank no matter how much the per liter gas price goes; but in the long run, fuel price would become elastic, those who drive bigger SUVs would REALLY need to think before buying one.

melanie
August 7th, 2005, 06:41 PM
they have jsut started a new system in some sydney suburbs and it is expected to be across the board in a few yrs..

what they did was charge extra tax to anyone who owns a SUV in sydney, your charged for greater pollution levels and impacts on the roads, although not fuel i think that one will come along soon enough......

my car gets 5ltrs to 100km, that is more effecient than most of the hybrids out there (the prius hybrid is 6ltrs to 100km), its jsut a little carolla 92 but has an effecient engine installed and we use higher octane fuels, thus we emit less particle pollutants and we get more effeciency from our fuel...

food for thought

Prin
August 7th, 2005, 06:44 PM
I think they have that here. Isn't there an SUV fuel surcharge or something? I don't know- I've never bought one and hopefully never will.

StaceyB
August 7th, 2005, 07:37 PM
It is a nice idea to have smaller cars but when you are transporting two adults, two kids, and dogs, plus anything else, there wouldn't be room. We are going on holidays camping. That requires a lot of stuff, even with the minivan we are all squished. I use the bus occasionally but even with the price of gas, I can still get around for less by driving myself, not a good incentive. As for the environment, when you see black puffs of smoke coming out of them you begin to wonder which one is actually better.

Prin
August 7th, 2005, 07:41 PM
Hey, I have no problem at all with FULL minivans. I hate it when they're driving in traffic EMPTY. What a waste.

doggy lover
August 7th, 2005, 07:43 PM
Filled up before we went and then we came back from the cottage, and yep out of gas, it was 95.5\L so put $20 in and the needle hardly moved. Yes we drive a gas guzzler, Dodge 1500, 4x4 with the hemmy had to have that(hubby of corse). I just couldn't see a smart car hauling our atv up and down from the cottage, actually I think our atv is bigger than a smart car. Oh what can you do the government has us by the yah-hoos, so we pay it and shut up, thank god we don't live in England, I know its pricie there.

Prin
August 7th, 2005, 07:45 PM
95.5. Wow. We went down a bit to 104.4...

Rick C
August 7th, 2005, 08:20 PM
Well, you guyz will love this . . . . it just cost me $70 to fill up my Durango in Bragg Creek, Alberta.

That's the first time I've crossed the $70 barrier.

Abby & Keeper didn't care.

Rick C
www.goldentales.ca

doggy lover
August 7th, 2005, 08:24 PM
Rick C I think we need our own tanker to follow us around. It has cost us just under $100 before we have a massive tank, the gas companies just love us don't they.

Prin
August 7th, 2005, 08:27 PM
Well, you guyz will love this . . . . it just cost me $70 to fill up my Durango in Bragg Creek, Alberta.

That's the first time I've crossed the $70 barrier.

Abby & Keeper didn't care.

Rick C
www.goldentales.ca
Well, they aren't reliable care-o-meters because we already know they just let bears walk on by without a fuss.

But yes, it did make me smile a bit.

Schwinn
August 7th, 2005, 10:58 PM
fuel is one ofthe cheapest fuels on the planet, a litre of milk or coke cost more than a litre of fuel...

As I said before, start buying coke or milk 50 litres at a time, and it would be alot cheaper. For example, when I worked at a bar, it cost us about a nickle a litre for coke. Just like shopping at the bulk food store where you buy things in large volumes, it's a lot cheaper. It's apples and oranges.

The only thing that bothers me when people say how glad they are that gas is so expensive because it gets people out of thier big SUVs, is that it doesn't affect just them. What about the people who drive smaller cars because they couldn't afford gas at .70/L? Or people who have a hard time scraping together fare for public transit? Trust me, most people who are buying SUVs now can afford more gas, so really, the ones who are being affected by the gas prices are mostly the ones who are either driving more fuel efficient vehicles, or vans because they have families they can't stuff into thier little four door civics. We just traded in our Civic because after having to almost rent a trailer to get everything to my parents, we realized it wouldn't work. And that's with only one child. What do we do when we have two? Myself, if I decide to give back the truck at the end of the lease, there's a good chance it'll be for something diesel. I'd look at a hybrid, but I'm not going to spend $35000 on a car.

Also, people complaining about someone driving a big truck or van down the highway, just remember that that might be thier only vehicle. Maybe when they aren't going to work, they are taking thier whole families around.

Prin
August 7th, 2005, 11:01 PM
My cousins in Calgary used to rent a car every weekend because it was really cheap, because the prices are only high for the businessmen. I say, if you can't carpool with your big empty van, then get a little car and rent the van for the long weekends and stuff when everybody has to fit in.

But still, no empty minivan is as unbelievable as the big empty hummers I see in traffic. Those guys don't have families, and they certainly can afford a little car to sit in traffic in.

Schwinn
August 7th, 2005, 11:11 PM
But still, no empty minivan is as unbelievable as the big empty hummers I see in traffic. Those guys don't have families, and they certainly can afford a little car to sit in traffic in.

Unfortunatly, if you can afford a Hummer, you can probably afford the gas, even if it went up a couple of more bucks a litre.

pags
August 8th, 2005, 12:20 AM
Please don't hope the gas prices skyrocket any more than they have... :sad: Not until someone somewhere miraculously puts together a public transportation system in every single civilized (or marginally civilized) corner of the world. You see... My family isn't out joyriding. We aren't even taking vacations... We go to buy food and we go to work and we go to school.. and that is it. We would not be forced out of our big SUV - we would be forced into unemployment and state welfare programs. We've done the math many many times... If the gas bill for my husband simply going to work got any higher I would also be forced to work. If I go to work then we have to pay for afterschool/summer care for two kids and daycare for two babies...(And poor Judge - we couldn't even figure in doggy daycare...) In order to pay for this and still have enough money to make up simply for that increase in the gas bill I would have to go find a job that pays at least 1.5 times what my husband makes (and trust me -- jobs like his are scarce here!). Oh wait I forgot!! I don't think we figured in the cost of MY gasoline since I'd actually be leaving the house for work every day.... Puh. :eek:

It's all very complicated unless you totally leave out the human factor. (By the way -- don't even get me started on how ridiculous it can be to even own a plain ol' big car down here where it rains 52 inches per year on average and our roads all flood. Trust me - I'm quite grateful to be driving my kids home in an SUV while I'm passing the stalled out minivans after a thunderstorm. And did I mention a pretty decent portion of our roads aren't even paved? :p Most people I know with SUVs here actually USE them as SUVs -- not just cause they look nifty or something. Er.. wait.. I said not to get me started and I started anyway... Oops!! Sorry. :o )

Oh and Rick -- the last time I put $20 worth of gas in our Durango it only got me a hair more than a quarter gallon... So I'm guessing it would cost us about the same to fill it up if we ever had the extra cash to do it. :eek:

nymph
August 8th, 2005, 02:20 PM
Compared to other parts of the world, fuel in North America is perhaps the cheapeast.

Just read the feature article on National Geographic, the European Union is committed to invest in alternative energy like wind powers, solar powers, hydro, geothermal, biomass and other sources of environmentally friendly energy. US and Canada are grossly lacking behind.

Denmark now have windmills that could supply about 20% of its total electrical need. Price of wind turbines and solar panels has come down considerably over the past 2 decades.

However until our government is committed in research and implementation of alternative energy, market force remains the best solution to tackle the destruction of our environment.

Now wouldn't this be a beautiful scene on Canadian coastline?

http://www7.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0508/feature1/images/gallery.1.2.jpg

doggy lover
August 8th, 2005, 02:43 PM
When I came back from Quebec last year we drove through a town on the St. Lawrence that had those and I mean there must have been about 50 of them. I don't know if I would say that they are beautiful, they actually ruined the beauty of the town.

Schwinn
August 8th, 2005, 02:45 PM
I look at the one down by the CNE, and I always wonder what would happen if we got gale force winds or something. I'd hate to go downtown and find out that that part of Toronto is now out on Toronto Island or something.

nymph
August 8th, 2005, 02:55 PM
When I came back from Quebec last year we drove through a town on the St. Lawrence that had those and I mean there must have been about 50 of them. I don't know if I would say that they are beautiful, they actually ruined the beauty of the town.

Hehe, the Brits in Lake District would certainly agree with you.

I think the wind turbines are stunning looking, I really like the geometric forms, and knowing that they provide re-usable power is a bonus. With the advance in technology, wind/solar power could soon enter our homes. :fingerscr

Prin
August 8th, 2005, 02:56 PM
Nymph, nothing is without it's consequences. If we were to install windmills all over, they would end up changing the wind patterns in the world, and that would cause trouble too by, for example, changing the weather patterns.

Hydro power, also renewable, requires flooding, and changes the anatomy and flow of the rivers involved, and kills fish and poisons people who eat the fish with mercury.

It's never simple.

jjgeonerd
August 8th, 2005, 03:04 PM
50 miles/gallon (~22 km/L) :D ...and if everyone rode them they'd be safer!

nymph
August 8th, 2005, 03:09 PM
Prin: I've been following the development of alternative energy for sometime, and this is the first time I've heard that wind turbines would have any impact on world weather. Could you provide some links?

Hydro power doesn't REQUIRE flooding, at least not all the time. Niagara Falls is a natural hydro source, so are many other natural drops.

A change in environment would definitely have an impact on the surrounding ecology, but the impact could be either good or bad.

I do agree that nothing is without consequences, very true. I just don't see fossil fuel being the sustainable source of energy for our planet.

Prin
August 8th, 2005, 03:59 PM
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20041016/fob7.asp
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-11/ns-whu110304.php These two show that there is an impact if turbines are on during the night
http://safewind.info/wind_FAQ_final.htm This one is mostly about birds. :rolleyes:

These are what I could find, but I'll have to email my step-sister- she's an environmental engineer and apparently is very current with the studies. IT's so hard to find links for the "bad" side of wind power because most of the sites are some how related to the power companies who are developing wind farms... They are concerned with the birds dying, but apparently even that is false because the new turbines spin so slowly... but like I said, these are most likely associated with the power companies.

Put it this way. If you have a desert, the way the wind blows through the desert affects how all the wind blows in the world. Now put a forest in the desert- the wind will certainly change. I'll post links when I get them. :)

No, you don't only have to flood, but for example, since they are working WAY up north in Quebec where there are no people ever, nobody really cares. And over time the maps change and nobody notices. I also don't think that the "water drops" we have in North America will generate enough power to support all our energy use- but we'll never know till we try it, right?

Prin
August 8th, 2005, 05:07 PM
She sent me these:
http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2004/2004JD004763.shtml
http://www.ucalgary.ca/~keith/papers/66.Keith.2004.WindAndClimate.e.pdf

jjgeonerd
August 8th, 2005, 05:33 PM
phew...that last link (ucalgary.ca paper) made my head hurt...and I'm a nerd that likes that sort of thing!! :p

In the end though all 5 links seem to reference the same study conducted by Princeton peope. Overall pretty interesting.

Prin
August 8th, 2005, 05:36 PM
WOW, you're fast! I didn't even try to read them- it's WAY too hot! I scanned through them- I like the pictures... :D It is still a really new area of study, so there will probably be much more to come. :)

jjgeonerd
August 8th, 2005, 05:56 PM
I'm not that fast...I basically scanned/speed read them. :rolleyes: Especially that last one! :p

Prin
August 8th, 2005, 09:38 PM
LOL I just got back from the park and gas here has hit 108.4!!! Craziness.

nymph
August 9th, 2005, 01:19 PM
The world climate is changing as it is, to the worse I might add, largely due to green house gases.

Just a few points I noticed after quickly scan through the U. Calgary article:

1. Very large scale wind farm would produce nonegligible climatic changes at continental scales. However,

2. Wind power has negligible effect on ground-level temperature and would deliver enormous global benefits by reducing emission of CO2 and other air pollutants.

3. Method they used in this research is based on 2 general circulation models, no real data was gathered.

Prin
August 9th, 2005, 02:06 PM
nonegligible
What does that mean? Non-negligible or no negligible? Big difference...:)

Schwinn
August 9th, 2005, 02:26 PM
What does that mean? Non-negligible or no negligible? Big difference...:)

I thought it had something to do with eggs...I read it as non egligible...

They are now looking at using the 401 corridor for wind power. The movement of vehicles causes a wind tunnel effect, so they want to see if they can harness it.

Prin
August 9th, 2005, 03:26 PM
I think our eggspectations are too high. ;) Not everybody is as anal as we are Schwinn. :D (I know, I know, speak for myself...)

kandy
August 9th, 2005, 04:11 PM
I would love to use public transportation. Oh wait - we don't have it here. I could take a cab to work and back everyday. Oh wait - we don't have any cab companies. Hmmmm, guess I could buy a smart car. Oh wait - can't take Hazel and Parker with me anywhere anymore (Lexi would probably still fit - at least for a few more months).

We have the wind thingy's here - all over the state. A lot of people also have windmills in their yards and our local power company is required to buy your excess. I don't think that's going to help anyone get back and forth to work though, unless we can figure out a way to mount a huge fan to a car. Oh wait - that wouldn't work unless the wind was blowing.

Hubby and I have been discussing what our next vehicle is going to be. This last weekend when we had both of us, Hazel, Parker and Lexi all in his extended cab truck - we figured out that we need something bigger. They all fit right now - but when they are all full grown we are going to have a major problem. We will need something that can tow the camper and the boat and that has room for all of us. I am thinking that means full sized SUV. Hey - ***puts on bullet proof vest and catcher's mask*** those Hummer 3's are cute and with the GM employee pricing I can buy one for less than $28k! :D OK - I'm ready - let em fly! hehehehe :evil:

nymph
August 9th, 2005, 04:27 PM
What does that mean? Non-negligible or no negligible? Big difference...:)

oops, should be "nonnegligible", copied from the article. BTW, what did you think of the article?

This morning a local radio station host Lowell Green was asking the million dollar question: "What would it take to stop those people from driving an SUVs? 99% of them don't need it". :cool: :rolleyes: :fingerscr

chico2
August 9th, 2005, 04:55 PM
Kandy,if you want a Hummer and can afford it(at $28.000,much cheaper than any SUV),it's nobodys business but your own,Hazel,Parker and Lexi want space!
Nymph,whether we NEED something or not is not the question,what we want and can afford is the main reason.
I doubt everyone buys only what they need..
We lent our 5,9L V8 Jeep Grand Cherokee to our sons girlfriend for a few days,she was amazed by it,the way it drives....but said she would have to rob a bank to drive it.
Every carmanufacturer is now pumping out SUV's,even the other Swedish car Saab, there has to be a reason for that,people are buying them and loving them.
Granted,our Jeep is a gas-guzzler and we will buy a Volvo X90 SUV,trade in the Jeep and my 1999 Volvo,in the next couple of months,much better on gas and really luxurious,at our age that's what we want,comfort,looks and power to get up a steep hill and we can afford it,I am not asking anyone to pay for it for us,hence it's nobody elses business.
Gas-prices will go up no matter what,whether we suffer in a little tin-can or drive a comfortable car.