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Help say goodbye, it's time

StaceyB
August 4th, 2005, 09:10 PM
As I was buying pet food tonight go figure they all seem to need it at once. Anyway as I look at the receipt I can't believe how much goes right out the window in tax. Then I think back to the time when Harris introduced us to the evil "GST" and said it would just be temporary. Another empty promise from our provincial gov't. We really know how to pick the winners don't we, screwed every time. I think this topic should come back to the forefront. The next 5-6 months would be the time to speak out. Do you agree it is time to say goodbye to the GST?

Just something to ponder, do you realize that the average middle class (anual income) person in ON only sees 50% of their wage. 30+% goes right off your pay and another 15% in sales tax.

Someone working for min wage loses aprox 20% and then 15% sales tax. So if the wage is 8.00(I don't even think it is that high yet), you are actually working for 5.20 hr, that is if you are even making 8.00.

shannon1233A
August 4th, 2005, 09:38 PM
I have to agree StaceyB, add on top of that, School tax, property tax. And to think Income tax was brought in to help with the war. I don't know what the alternative is though, I think no matter which government is in, the GST is here to stay, like our Income Tax. Another promise broken by a politician, what else is new? :SIGH

Puppyluv
August 4th, 2005, 09:49 PM
Having recently moved from Alberta to Quebec, it still shocks me to see the HUGE dent that GST+PST makes on my purchases!!! I'd love to see them go, but alas I think Shannon is right.... they aren't going anywhere, and in the meantime I think I'm going to have to buy a defibrilator to restart my heart each time I see my receipts.

Writing4Fun
August 4th, 2005, 10:19 PM
Hey, I'm all for abolishing the GST and PST - then I won't have to submit those rediculous quarterly tax returns for the handful of sales I've made. :evil:

So ... where do I sign?? :D

LL1
August 4th, 2005, 10:21 PM
I thought Mulroney (federal) brought in the GST? Tories yes,yuck,hate them,but federal.
Then I think back to the time when Harris introduced us to the evil "GST" and said it would just be temporary. Another empty promise from our provincial gov't.

SnowDancer
August 4th, 2005, 10:26 PM
I agree - Federal.

StaceyB
August 4th, 2005, 11:15 PM
Sorry you are right but either way we still got screwed. It gets hard to tell the difference between them anymore. They all tell us what they want and then turn around and do something that we would never had agreed to.

Another Q- If you are not private about this I would like to ask since we are going to have an election in the near future, who would you choose, from what we have to choose from.

StaceyB
August 4th, 2005, 11:18 PM
Did you know that tourists are entitled to a tax refund.

This may be a touchie subject so if I offend anyone I am sorry. Those persons collecting welfare are also entitled to a refund.

LL1
August 4th, 2005, 11:18 PM
Anything but conservative?

CyberKitten
August 5th, 2005, 02:21 AM
I hate the GST too but while the Tories introduced it (copying NZ and most of Europe), the Liberals never got rid of it either. I like how they do it in Europe - you never see the taxes. You pay one price and that's it. I do wish some things were not taxsed - like fuel!! Necessities! Provincial govts have the Blended sales tax which we all call something else, lol

So, I am not ready to let the Liberals off with anything. They also promised to take of the GST - did they?

StaceyB
August 5th, 2005, 02:40 AM
When the GST was introduced they said to everyone, don't worry it is just temporary and how long ago was that. So much for temporary. There should be laws against telling out and out lies. Crush them like a bug or atleast hold them accountable.

Prin
August 5th, 2005, 03:22 AM
I do wish some things were not taxsed - like fuel!! Necessities! Most of the necessities are not taxed. Like milk, flour, butter, fruits and veggies, meats, etc. I'm glad for that.

There was a joke too that babies diapers were taxed but adult ones weren't because Mulroney wore them...

Puppyluv
August 5th, 2005, 09:21 AM
There was a joke too that babies diapers were taxed but adult ones weren't because Mulroney wore them...

LMAO not to mention that Mulroney's son (Ben) had to go to school in the states after GST was introduced because he got harrassed in school

chico2
August 5th, 2005, 09:36 AM
Mulroney caused a lot of damage to Canada,for one he sold out to free trade and screwed us completely with the"temporary"GST...I felt nauseous every time I saw his mug on TV :D and then Harris took care of the rest provincially :evil:
I still have a doll of Mulroney with a noose around his neck,someone gifted to me..
As for voting,Harper will NEVER get our vote!!

CyberKitten
August 5th, 2005, 12:17 PM
Re: When the GST was introduced they said to everyone, don't worry it is just temporary

So was income tax.... ;)

Luvmypit
August 5th, 2005, 01:35 PM
How about for those Ontarians the lovely health "premium'. Hmmm he must really think were dumb. No new taxes... my arse. Lets call it something different and we will also cut some programs at the same time. CRAZY .

I am thinking the green party. I think we need a whole new face and ideas. And someone who will be accountable and curb spending.

Prin
August 5th, 2005, 01:56 PM
I like the NDP. The only problem is if I vote for them here in Qc, it's basically a wasted vote...

nymph
August 5th, 2005, 04:28 PM
I don't believe Harris introduced the GST, but Brian Mulroney did.

GST was introduced to increase Canada's competitiveness on international stage. Before GST was introduced, the equivalent of GST was hidden in the purchase price. For example, a pound of wheat would cost $10, but only $8 was the actual price of the commodity, and $2 was the tax (I forgot the proper term). What GST did was to replace the hidden $2, therefore, a pound of wheat could be sold on international market for only $8, hence making Canada much more competitive.

Anyway, that's what I remembered from university class. It's hugely unpopular for sure, but Canada is actually not the most taxed nation, many European nations have much higher taxes than Canada.

chico2
August 5th, 2005, 04:47 PM
Well,Sweden is one country with very high taxes,but they are actually comparable to Canada.
The difference is,the Swedes get an awful lot more for their taxes...here we pay and pay,but still our health-care is failing,the poor people are getting poorer,education is suffering.
Kids often cannot get a higher education becase of high tuition-fees,most places in Europe,Sweden,France,Germany as examples,higher education is available for anyone,rich or poor,they only have to prove they have the grades and the will to do well.
I am not complaining,we've done very well in Canada,but I just hate to see where it's going.

CyberKitten
August 5th, 2005, 07:40 PM
Prin, a vote is never wasted if you vote for what you believe in. That said, strategic voting is important on occasion.

Chici, I guess I am ever the optomist and I really think - even compared to Europe - that our education and health care systems are doing quite well. I would like to emulate the Celtic Tiger - Ireland tho - where post secondary tuition is free and a major reason for their rebound - (but Ireland does have a 2 tier health care). I honestly believe we have one of the best medical systems in the world.

It bothers me that many journalists who write about it are so biased and never look at the whole picture. I find that extremely unprofessional - and I know that side as a member of an editorial board. (family newspaper, lol) I know individual people complain about wait lists but there are criteria that are more important in my view. If I have to wait 4 hrs to have my migraine taken care of, so be it. At least I know if I have a heart attack, I WILL be triaged and treated well and it won't bankrupt me. I have worked in for profit health care and while the US for example has some excellent heath care centers, many are very much below our standards and they (everyone!) pays more money per capita than we do - so they pay for a system they often cannot access without paying mega money.

Some people want everything even when they do not know what will work best for them. Like MRI's - not necessary for every situation yet there are so many ppl demanding an MRI??? I think people should take a lot of responsibility for their own health care and they alas expect everything right now. We do a very good job of keeping people alive, have an excellent low mortality rate for the factors that matter. I always figure - having been a too often consumer of medical services myself - that when ppl complain, they must be feeling better. A hospital is not a 4 star hotel - it has to serve the people who need help the most.

I guess because I have spent so much time in areas of the world where people live on average to age 55 if they are lucky and 50% of babies do not make it to their 1st birthday that I am frustrated to see how complacent we are. We are so blessed and all we can do is complain!

I know there are problems but no system is perfect - I know of lots of things I would do for change and it is a constant political battle to obtain what you want for your patients but even expensive cancer drugs are available to children whose parents are homeless - those same children would have no chance at all in the vast majority of the world's countries, inlc the US.

Often in the Maritimes, health care becomes more about economic development and jobs than enhancing health care. Unions et al fight for jobs in communities where they are ill served by having a suregon who simply cannot keep up his or her skills with a small population. It is always a struggle for people with a sick child tho and I can understand why they might complain yet most are so wonderful and become like family in our hospital after awhile.

Education is another matter entirely, lol I'd best leave that for later. I have strong opinions on it (sme positive, some negative seen from my perspoective as a former school board trustee, university professor and daughter of an educator).

Prin
August 5th, 2005, 08:10 PM
Prin, a vote is never wasted if you vote for what you believe in. That said, strategic voting is important on occasion.
And every vote a party gets, under the new rules, they get a bit more money for the next election.

LL1
August 5th, 2005, 08:59 PM
I agree with you completely.
Chici, I guess I am ever the optomist and I really think - even compared to Europe - that our education and health care systems are doing quite well. I honestly believe we have one of the best medical systems in the world.

It bothers me that many journalists who write about it are so biased and never look at the whole picture. At least I know if I have a heart attack, I WILL be triaged and treated well and it won't bankrupt me. I have worked in for profit health care and while the US for example has some excellent heath care centers, many are very much below our standards and they (everyone!) pays more money per capita than we do - so they pay for a system they often cannot access without paying mega money.

Some people want everything even when they do not know what will work best for them. Like MRI's - not necessary for every situation yet there are so many ppl demanding an MRI??? I think people should take a lot of responsibility for their own health care and they alas expect everything right now. We do a very good job of keeping people alive, have an excellent low mortality rate for the factors that matter. I always figure - having been a too often consumer of medical services myself - that when ppl complain, they must be feeling better. A hospital is not a 4 star hotel - it has to serve the people who need help the most.

We are so blessed and all we can do is complain!

I know there are problems but no system is perfect - I know of lots of things I would do for change and it is a constant political battle to obtain what you want for your patients but even expensive cancer drugs are available to children whose parents are homeless - those same children would have no chance at all in the vast majority of the world's countries, inlc the US.

Writing4Fun
August 5th, 2005, 09:54 PM
It's hugely unpopular for sure, but Canada is actually not the most taxed nation, many European nations have much higher taxes than Canada.
Granted, but they also get a lot more bang for their tax buck.

"Chici"?? Would that be your alter-ego?? :p

CyberKitten
August 5th, 2005, 10:33 PM
Sorry about the Chici Chico (and everyone). That's just my 40 mistakes per minute typing at work. :D

Prin
August 5th, 2005, 10:50 PM
Chici Chico... Hmmm.... Nah, I can't recall her ever being cheeky enough to be chici. ;)

chico2
August 6th, 2005, 08:14 AM
Chici Chico :D that's cute,that's me :crazy:
CK,I too agree with you and I have to admit,I have never experienced any problems with our healthcare and as you know I had 2 kids who virtually grew up at Sick Kids Hosp in Toronto and in later years Toronto General Hosp.
We've had the same familydoctor for nearly 30 yrs,a wonderful guy,although a"pill-pusher" :Dand I do not always follow his directions,but educate myself..and question any meds he subscribes.
I did have to wait in emergency for 4 hours with an infected cat-bite,but I brought a book and figured more serious cases have to be treated first.
What I know about our"problem"healthcare is like you say,mostly from the media.
On the other hand,we cannot compare ourselves with 3rd world countries,maybe just thank our lucky star for not being born there and try to push for a solution to the misery in poorer countries.

BMDLuver
August 6th, 2005, 08:28 AM
Everytime I see this title I think someone is having to say goodbye to their pet. :o

What po's me is that they tax toothpaste, sanitary products, toilet paper and diapers... I can't for the life of me see how these are not necessary products. :eek:

Prin
August 6th, 2005, 02:15 PM
Oh, we're on health care? I got a referral to an endocrinologist. I called. They said "Fax us the referral". I did. They said "fax it again, it's not clear." I did. They said, "Thanks, we'll call you for an appointment." So two days later, they called and said, "How do you know you have a thyroid issue?" I said I had blood tests. They said, "Fax us the blood tests". I did. They said "We'll call you." Sigh. If I have to wait this long to MAKE the appointment, how long will it be till I HAVE the appointment? Maybe, I'll look for a private endocrinologist. Yey two tiered health care. :thumbs up I'm poor, so it's not just for the rich, see? This waiting around feeling like garbage is just stupid.

melanie
August 6th, 2005, 06:09 PM
ha ha ha get rid of GST, lol htats too funny.. thats the scam with GST they introduce it to fix a problem, but then they say that that problems fixed and now they need it for another problem, GST sucks and it will enver die, its like a cockroach...

BMDLuver
August 6th, 2005, 06:44 PM
Why do I now have a mental image of you (Mel) chasing a cockroach around your place smashing at it with a hammer? :eek:

Prin
August 6th, 2005, 06:49 PM
I have her smashing it with a broom made of straw. :)

melanie
August 7th, 2005, 06:36 PM
sadly due to GSt i cant afford a hammer, but i can afford the straw and wood to make a broom form scratch then it wont have gst applied i think, well who knows, no one knows, thats the scam of GST, its like the invisible entity that no one knows where or how it exists and what exactly it does, stupid GST grrrrrrr..... i

think german shep owerns should get gst paid to them, that is German Shepherd Tax, you all should pay us for my girls pretty and makes my day... this in turn helps my general health which in turn relieves the tax system and health system, and then it all comes back to the stupid GST (government sucker tax)... :D

whack whack whack