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Attacked twice in a week by monster dogs - Reality check for small dog owners

twodogsandacat
August 1st, 2005, 11:40 AM
We have two dogs. A Rhodesian Ridgeback\Doberman mix (finally identified that second part of the mix with the help of animal control but still ocassionaly called pit cross by those that think all red dogs are part pit bulls) and an English Pointer.

The English Pointer is very docile around other dogs unless humped – then he will growl but that's about it. The mix is large and takes no cr@p from any dog . He has been attacked by everything from an unleashed Shepherd at the canal to a Jack Russell at the dog park that literally walked underneath him, sat and then without any provocation – bit him on the underbelly. He used to walk away from the little monsters but stand up to the big ones.

He doesn’t bite but has stomped numerous dogs that cross the line into the ground. It looks nasty but he has always managed to assert himself without the need to use teeth. It has gotten to the point where he will now stomp little dogs as well as big dogs. When a Pomeranian recently got into his face and barked at him he beat it with his paws - it had the bejesus scared out of it but no harm was done - he held back. That was close to the end of the line for him. If he ever bit as dog that small there would be no doubt to the outcome .

When we walk around the neighbourhood there are certain streets where I know there are little dogs that are sometimes loose. When a Dachshund playing with the kids in the back yard came charging into the front yard and then spun off when he saw my two dogs (and the kids running after the Dachshund) my heart stood still. I managed to keep them apart until the mother arrived but it scared me enough (because of the kids). That dog was trying to attack us but really it didn't scare me at all....I was scared because of all the kids involved. We muzzle him up on certain streets now. The reason for this is not because he bites (because as stated he doesn't) but:

1) he cannot be accused of biting another animal if he is muzzled
2) if a kid stuck his hand into the fray and even dragged his hand across his teeth the effect would be ‘he bit me’
3) these dogs even if they did bite him wouldn’t do much damage and I’m sure I could scare the little guys off (even if I had to tap one with my foot).

On the streets with the big dogs (Rottis) he is not muzzled as I am not sure I could protect him if one of the two Rottis jumped the four foot fences they are kept behind or the third Rotti broke his rope. None of these owners chastise their dogs for barking and jumping while I legally walk my dogs by their homes on the far sides of the roads.

Last Thursday I muzzled him at the top of the street with the Dachshunds. We started walking down the street watching the house with the Dachshunds for any activity on the front lawn. Out of another house came a Jack Russell charging across the road teeth baring and barking kike he wants to kill all three of us. He tried to bite my Pointer which I let out as I pulled the big guy in and was holding him by the leather collar not the leash due to the prong collar attached. He tried to bite the big guy as I brushed (and I mean brushed) him with my foot. He tried to bite me. He almost got ran over by the pizza delivery guy as I stomped my foot on the ground in front of him and yelled ‘get away’. The owner stayed on their lawn throughout the whole thing rather than approach two strange dogs. I was extremely ticked off but accepted the apology from afar – although I don’t think I was very sincere but I know they didn’t set their dog on us so what could I do?.

Today we were walking in a nature area. As we came around the corner on the trail there were two Yorkies on the leashes that let out up to ten feet. I stepped off the trail and into the bush with the big guy. My girlfriend knows that when strange dogs come running up to me I always put the Pointer out front as he is completely non-threatening. She put herself and the Pointer between me and the other dogs. The Yorkies were still full out on the leashes and yapping and growling (my dogs were silent). One of the Yorkies LEAPT and the Pointer yelped. As we out the gate I stopped to pet the Pointer. I looked at his nose…..he was cut and bleeding.

My girlfriend wanted to wait at the gate to berate the guy but I said ‘why’ what’s the point.

Some on this post know that I was concerned about my Rhodesian mix every once in a while being called a pit by the uninformed and think that Michael Bryant needs a reality check – in fact I believe that maybe he should walk with me and my dogs for a few days to see how irresponsible many small dog owners are.

I don’t believe that any yappy little dog should pay the ultimate price for merely mouthing off to another dog but in less than a week two small dogs have tried to bite my dogs unprovoked and in both cases the owners didn’t treat it like a big deal but be assured that if either of my dogs got a hold of their dogs it would make the paper.

I am seriously considering purchasing a citronella type dog repellent (http://www.mightypets.com/product.asp?3=695) that I recently saw in store. It was described as being more humane than the cayenne based dog repellents and almost effective. While it may work fine on these small out of control dogs I’m sure I would rather spray the owners in these cases rather than the dogs. I wonder if that would get the attention of little dog owners that let the monsters run free or jump bigger dogs with impunity.

Ok. Vent over.

shannon1233A
August 1st, 2005, 11:59 AM
Wow, what a week. That's terrible, I personally would get the citronella spray. It's so unfortunate that small dog owners think since their dogs are small they can't do much damage, without carrying through the thought to the point where they realize no, he won't cause damage, but could be hurt himself :DUH!!!

And it's always, always, the big dog that gets blamed. I remember Kenzie being bitten on the back as we walked by a ring of JR's on the way back from our ring at a show. This guy just leaped with no provocation or warning and jumped on her back and bit. Thankfully with her thick coat Kenzie wasn't hurt. BUT, our breeder told us to keep our eyes 180 degrees, because all small dog owners automatically blame the big dog, no matter what.

Unfair isn't it :mad: I would have waited for the people, but it wouldn't have done any good, as if they really cared, they wouldn't have just watched. Somehow they'd turn it around. NO OFFENCE MEANT TO SMALL DOG OWNERS HERE, BUT ITS A FACT THE BIG DOG GETS BLAMED FOR DAMAGE even when instigated by a small dog, MORE OFTEN THAN NOT IMHO!

Lucky Rescue
August 1st, 2005, 12:16 PM
Boy, can I sympathize! I can't tell you how many times Chloe and I have been charged by off-leash, unfenced little dogs of all kinds. Their owners seem to think it's amusing, but I sure don't.

So far, Chloe has not tried to retaliate, even when one little mutt decided to hump her, but if she did, I can just hear the outcry: "PIT BULL mauls beloved family pet!!!"

I'm going to check out the citronella spray. I'm just afraid if the wind is wrong, my own dog might get a blast.:(

SnowDancer
August 1st, 2005, 12:18 PM
I agree that little dogs are frequently very aggressive. I had mini Dachshunds for over 20 years and never, ever were they off leash - one because they were protect and alert Mommy dogs - and two because they have no road sense when it comes to squirrels - no way was my dog about to be run over. Forget the fenced yard - to easy to dig under and out. The only breed that I was ever comfortable approaching with my dog still on the ground was a Dobe. Dachshunds an Dobes get along famously - even look alike as pups before Dobes ears and tails are lobbed. Rottis are another matter - there are even joke books that poke fun at the hate relationship between the 2 breeds - and trust me, my 2 Alphas would not back down. But they were not as aggressive as Jack Russells, particularly in the house where they were sweet as pie. I am now in the position of having a 21 lb. Eskimo who unfortunately thought that all dogs would love him - wrong - he now understands this. He is being charged by both big dogs - and the 6 lb. Yorkie who lives up the street. I have talked down some really big dogs and have had to pick my pup up and run a couple of times. It is hard going for our walks - keep taking different routes but it seems no matter when or where we go we encounter a problem. Then there are the skateboarders who scare him and continue to skate around him. Hate to think what these kids will be like when they grow up. Only time he feels secure is at socialization class - no matter what type of dog is behind the gate my Eskimo is secure in the knowledge that everyone will be his friend - and it is true. When he arrives all the dogs are pleased to see him - some are seriously big -the love my pup's tail and others are his size or smaller. I had a bit of a scare when a dog jumped into the car after my guy a few weeks ago - turned out to be an Australian Terrier female who intended to have her way with him - happened 4 times in as many minutes - in and out of the car. Have had 2 more encounters with her. But both dogs are neutered and it could have been a lot worse - a big dog thinking he was lunch or a 6 lb. dog trying to bite him. Eskies are strong and do play rough. Hope thinks get better for you in your neighbourhood. And, yes, I would try and avoid the Dachshunds because they are going to try and get to your dogs first. There is a standard Dachshund at other end of my street - not an Alpha - and I can approach with my dog because all Dachshunds love me and my Eskie senses the relationship so practically salutes.

melanie
August 1st, 2005, 06:42 PM
hey, how did you know my life story, lol :eek: as a big dog owner i can totally understand what your going through, charlie never seems to get picked on by alot of big dogs, its mainly small dogs...

i often wonder if the little odgs are often that way because of lack of training, that is a little dog can often get away with a lot more than a big dog can, so around here the old ladies dont seem to train their dogs, and charlie seems to cop it.....

but she doesnt swipe them, if she has had enough she grabs the dog, flips it on its back, and puts her jaws on its neck and growls, i think it is the funniest thing really. she never hurts them, jsut scares them half to death, she often does this to annoying puppies also....i cant help but laugh

so many little dogs want to kill her around here, and she has never had anything to do with them, they just hate her. and the little dogs will ocme barreling up yapping while owners watch, then they call charlie agressive, well if i had 3 little dogs with sharp teeth going my neck i would not be nice about it either.

and the biggest problem for me is these dogs are at her throat height, they could do real damage given the chance. she was attacked by a staffie who went straight for the throat and caused her to bleed. grrrrrr.

basically if the dogs wont leave us alone, and they are really stressing her out, well i will happily bring in the boot,. im not about to let an untrained dog attack mine and hope for the best, sorry but she is my best mate and mates look out for each other.....basically it will teach the owners to control there dog for sure. im sick of it, there is one dog in the mornings who goes psycho when he sees my girl, this little guy would literally try and rip her apart given the opertunity, well with my boots around there wont be an oppertunity.....

cruel or not, i wont hve my baby attacked when she is minding her business, if a dog cant be friendly i say tis a reflection of the owner so i often want to give them a boot too (hey if the dogs a bully i imagine the owner is too)....grrr makes me so mad, i love my dog and no one deserves such crap.....i hate it when she gets picked on :mad: :mad:

Lucky Rescue
August 1st, 2005, 06:51 PM
but she doesnt swipe them, if she has had enough she grabs the dog, flips it on its back, and puts her jaws on its neck and growls, i think it is the funniest thing really. she never hurts them, jsut scares them half to death, she often does this to annoying puppies also....

Yes, my last dog would do this too, to any size dog. He was 80lbs and could be trusted to give a quick lesson in manners to any annoying dog without EVER hurting them. I never interfered when he did this and he would stand over them until they licked his muzzle and cried "Uncle".

But I can't do this with my pit bull. If she ever retaliates against her tormentors, a hue and cry would go up for her to be burned at the stake, I'm sure.

So I pretty much have to drive her to places I know there are not off leash and aggressive dogs, to walk her. :mad:

melanie
August 1st, 2005, 07:09 PM
oh chloe, if only charlie was there, i would send her in to deal with all the nasty dogs out therefor her, charlie could be her body guard :D

but it is really funny when she flips them , she does not really have any problems with big dogs here, their mostly her firends, but it would be funny to see her do it to a larger dog. ppls reactions to this act of hers is often horror, which makes me laugh harder, i always laugh hard at those ppl who dont have a clue about dogs or thier society.... you know the ppl who expect animals to behavelike humans, but of course she is often called a killer.

one woman actually sai d once 'that looks like a vicious breed so it was my dog that started the fight' huh some ppl make no sense.... but im sure you know that first hand lucky.... oh chloe poor baby, gosh ppl are cruel sometimes gggrrrrrr.....

but dashaunds, well the one next door dug under the fence recently nad attacked charlie in the kitchen, what a dumb dog, to pick on a GSD, boy oh boy not much brain there... well once she realised what she was diong she crapped herself and hid unsder my couch, i doubt she will ever try that again.... the neighbors didnt take it seriously and laughed, i wonder if they would laugh if charlie lost it and killed their dog in her own kitchen?friggin idiots......

Mom_Of_Two_Dogs
August 2nd, 2005, 02:50 AM
I own smaller medium sized dogs and I too find small dog owners to be the WORST offenders for letting their dogs offleash. I was taking my Scottie out for a walk when a JRT came out of nowhere and confronted my terrier. Hamish didn't put up with it and *I* was accused of having a vicious dog when he was just defending himself :rolleyes: The JRT had a few puncture wounds but aside from a bruise, Hamish didn't have a scratch on him.

Leashlaws exist for a reason and nobody should consider themselves exempt from obeying them, no matter how "cute" or "friendly" their dog is. No matter how well behaved or how friendly my two are, I would never consider letting them run offleash. It's amazing how tolerant people are to small dogs running all over the place, starting crap with other dogs, but the moment the same people see a Rott or pit bull-type dog on a leash, walking by their side? They'd be ready to call in the SWAT team the moment the said dog looks at them.

Prin
August 2nd, 2005, 03:01 AM
I agree with the popular opinion about little dogs never being blamed, but I have to say, on the other side of this, at the dog park a couple of times, when a big dog approaches a small dog, I have heard big dog owners saying "if the owner is worried, s/he'll just have to leave". And I don't think that is right either. I don't think that big dog owners who are comfortable with the size of their own dog should dismiss the concerns of the little dog owners. I don't think that having a gentle big dog is a free pass either nor do I think that a gentle big dog can go through life and never be the cause.

I love my dogs to death, and I trust them, but you never know 100% what they are capable of. I found out by accident that Boo really dislikes men with white hair. Jemma really doesn't like 40lb dogs with white fur. But you never know till you meet one.

I'm not saying your dogs are starting anything, but the reputation of big dogs comes from somewhere, you know? It really sucks that good dog owners, big or little, have to deal with stereotypes, but I don't think it's entirely fair either way to argue it all from one side or the other.

There are still dozens and dozens of little dogs at our park every day who play really well with big dogs. We can't overlook them, like people overlook the dozens and dozens of great pitties out there. Right? :)

twodogsandacat
August 2nd, 2005, 08:04 AM
I agree with the popular opinion about little dogs never being blamed, but I have to say, on the other side of this, at the dog park a couple of times, when a big dog approaches a small dog, I have heard big dog owners saying "if the owner is worried, s/he'll just have to leave". And I don't think that is right either. I don't think that big dog owners who are comfortable with the size of their own dog should dismiss the concerns of the little dog owners. I don't think that having a gentle big dog is a free pass either nor do I think that a gentle big dog can go through life and never be the cause.

It’s not really about the size of the dogs but in these two cases in the last week they happened to be little dogs and they happened to be aggressive. We have also been approached by large dogs but luckily their demeanour as they came walking over was friendly and they left when called back…….but in all fairness they also shouldn’t of been able to get as far as they did.

My issue is really that no matter where we walk we have to anticipate dogs off leash. Although the Yorkies were on leash they were ten foot leashes on a path less than five feet wide and the dogs were not under control which gave the affect of being off leash.

Equally disturbing is the owner of the one Rotti who jumps and barks in a unfriendly manner as the owner sits there on the porch and says nothing to his dog. If that rope breaks we have nothing but a busy street as protection and I really don’t want to see a dog hit by a car anymore than I want to try and keep a Rotti off of my dogs. Personally I like Rottis based on those I have known thoughout the years. Rottis owned by responsible co-workers and neighbours. I even researched them before getting our first dog – I wasn’t the type of owner a Rotti needed – inexperienced and maybe not assertive enough so I took a pass.

My main point was that large breed owners should be able to walk their leashed dogs down a street without fear of an altercation where they will always be blamed for any injuries no matter who starts what.

It had nothing to do with a dog park because that is a different can of worms and I believe that big dogs belong with big dogs and little with little no matter how well they get along because it just takes one dog - big or small - to start something. We no longer go to dog parks because of this uneven mix in sizes. My dog has an intolerance for ALL but one Jack Russell based on the actions of one Jack at the dog park.

Other than that it was just a vent to coming home with a dog with a bleeding nose – a scratch but nether the less a bleeding nose. We'll live and we will go out again today.

Dogastrophe
August 2nd, 2005, 08:06 AM
I had posted the other week about Lucy (45ish lbs) taking offence to being snapped at by a little fluffy dog which resulting in her slamming the little dog to the ground a few times. Thankfully the ppl with the little dog understood that their dog started it (and mentioned that it has happened before) so we didn't have to start defending Lucy, however, she also did not do any lasting damage to the little one.

My little one, Jack (8 mos, Silky / Yorkie x), tends to be very friendly with all dogs which is a result of being socialized with others (big and small) since the day we adopted him.

Akeeter
August 2nd, 2005, 10:39 PM
I was thinking that that some sort of repellant might work, but check on the legalities.

I don't understand WHY small dog owners, & sometimes big dog owners do not correct their dogs for Bad bahviour. :mad: I wonder if these people have horrible bratty kids for the same reasons? :confused:

Okami
August 4th, 2005, 03:11 AM
I've had bad experiences as well and I own a rough collie(Lassy :( ). I remember when my dogs leather collar slipped off (I now use a chocker chain) and she ran ahead of me and out of my sight. A few minutes later I had found her exploring a nearby pond. There was an older man, and a young boy with their dog unleashed there as well. My collie thinks it's a game of chase when I run to it so I walked towards her as quickly as a could, but the other dog got to her before I could. ;) Now my dog doesn't exactly have the sharpest instincts in the world, because this dog came up to her snarling, and teeth bared and all she did was wag her tail and drop down into a play position. Boy was I glad she had thick fur that other dog ran up to her and started attacking her, you'd think the owner of the other dog would try and restrain his dog instead he picked up a stick and started beating my dog!
After I had pulled my collie away from the other dog and man, he had the nerve to tell me to keep my dangerous dog away from the park.

ILoveMutts!
August 4th, 2005, 08:49 AM
Things are the other way around in the park I frequent. Large dog owners let their dogs loose without paying much attention to their actions. Even if their dog is bullying a smaller one, they believe that that's the other owner's problem. Small dog owners are usually overprotective and keep a tight watch over their dogs. And they are the ones to leave the park when they feel uncomfortable with the presence of a big dog.

Mom_Of_Two_Dogs
August 4th, 2005, 01:58 PM
Even if their dog is bullying a smaller one, they believe that that's the other owner's problem. Small dog owners are usually overprotective and keep a tight watch over their dogs.

Urgh, so true :mad:

Small dog or big dog, owners shouldn't let their dogs bully other other ones. Some people aren't knowledgeable enough about dog aggression and don't recognize signs that a fight would start. I cannot count the number of times that I've had dogs of all sizes coming up to mine and causing trouble. "Oh but he's FRIENDLY!" They say, when his hackles are up and his tail's held high. My two dogs have bitten a Lab that pulled this stunt and the owners acted like it was my fault, even if they were the irresponsible party who let their aggressive dog loose :rolleyes:

Beaglemom
August 4th, 2005, 02:42 PM
We've owned small dogs and have always kept them on leash. We've had a pom and a maltese x. Small dogs have huge attitudes! Our dogs have always been socialized with dogs of all sizes. Most of my family has large dogs and these dogs grew up with them. But, they still think that they are the boss and will try to bully them. I have a family member that owns a pom and 2 GSD. They play together most of the time, but the pom, well she thinks she is boss and will bully the other dogs. She attempts it with every large dog.

Little dogs make up their lack in size with attitude, unfortunately, they are on the losing end because of their size and they just don't realize it.

The pet owners of small dogs must realize that these dogs have attitude and don't quite realize their vulnerability. It is the owner's responsibility to protect them from harm by keeping them on leash.

Now, I can speak from experience that some people with large dogs do believe that it isn't their problem and that their dog can take care of themselves and allow them loose in the area. These dogs would come up to me and my little dogs during our walks. They were not always the friendliest and the large dog owners didn't care. I would have to pick up my dogs to protect them. Not fun for small dog owners/walkers! Can be quite scarey.

Now on the flip side. My beagle doesn't trust small dogs at all. She has been attacked by them way to often. I don't trust her near them because she will not tolerate all the yapping and nipping at her heels. She has been bitten way too many times and will retaliate. Not pretty! I've had to get in the middle to stop a few fights already. These little dogs don't give up!

Copper'sMom
August 4th, 2005, 03:09 PM
I know of a couple who have a JRT. This dog has bit a neighbour on a few seperate occasions(gotta wonder about the neighbour though :rolleyes: ) but has bitten others as well. This JRT has been quaranteened numerous times for biting and no muzzle orders or leash laws have been established for this dog!!!!! This is ridiculous!

We went to Rib Fest in London, ON on the weekend. I brought my Pit Bull Copper with me. As we were walking thru a crowd, a little Shih Tzu or something like it started barking and dashed towards us! Copper JUMPED and RAN AWAY from this dog as so did I!! It scared him!!! Now how's that for a breed with a tough and tenacious reputation??

babyrocky1
August 4th, 2005, 05:48 PM
These things happen with little dogs and Rocky so often I dont even mention it because its pretty much part of my daily routine! He isnt scared of them and never retaliates, but so far he hasnt actually been bitten, only bacause I have always been able to pull hiim away quickly enough. Most of the owners don't take it seriously and some are even amused! There is one woman with a mini dobe that goes crazy every time he sees Rocky, he barks like crazy and pulls at the lead. This dog is REALLY annoying, the owner does nothing to correct the behaviour and in fact she seems to enjoy it. The good thing about it though is that the dog is so annoying it attracts lots of attention. Rocky seems not to even know hes there,,,People make comments like "its always the little ones!" So in this case it works FOR me.

Prin
August 4th, 2005, 06:41 PM
Sorry if I over-fought for the little guys, but it had to be said so that stereotypes are not projected by accident...

I agree that little dog owners seem to discipline less- face it being jumped on my a 4 lb dog is way less invasive than being jumped on by a 96lb dog...

My aunt's dog, a 4lb poodle mix, is incredibly dominant and they don't know much about dogs, so they just listen to him and nothing bad happens. If a dog growls to be put down, and you put him down, chances are you won't get bitten. But at one point Boo came to be pet and this little dog whipped across the room, jumped on my lap and bit Boo in the face. Oooh I kicked his a** for that. I dominated him right away and my aunt FREAKED. I told her if she thought he was going to bite Boo in the face and get away with it, she was INSANE. Needless to say, he never tried that again. My cousin told me later that they worry because their dog is "not used to getting disciplined". GOOD LUCK. That's all I have to say. GOOD LUCK raising a decent dog with no discipline. :rolleyes:

ILoveMutts!
August 4th, 2005, 07:44 PM
Most will agree that it isn't about small dog owners or large dog owners. It's about irresponsible owners who depending on what kind of dog they have, can be irresponsible in different ways.

One type of irresponsible owners are those who just don't give a damn about other dogs than theirs. They usually have big, strong, hardy dogs, and pay little attention to their behaviour.

Another type are people who intentionally let their dog fight because they take pleasure from watching it beat another dog. They have medium or large dogs and pick opponents that they believe are a good match.

I had my first experience with one of this sort on today's walk. His dog attacked mine without reason. Immediately I picked Leon up and his dog started growling around me trying to get to him. Leon was slipping from my hands as he shuddered to brake free and I had to grab him from the underside of his harness so that he wouldn't fall down. This went on for a while and all that sicko did was watch and wait, on purpose, for Leon to slip from my hands and fight! I finally had to lower him down to get a proper grip, then quickly lift him up as that dog attacked. Only when its owner realised Leon wouldn't slip again, did he approach and call his dog off, by saying lets go.

And the third type of irresponsible owners are people who are indifferent if their dog lives or dies. They are the ones who, as described in this thread, let their small aggressive dogs attack big ones. It doesn't matter who gets blamed in the end, nothing will bring their pet back to life. They realise it, but they don't care.