Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

Hello from My wolves and me

Sheba
July 31st, 2005, 10:09 PM
Hi Everyone,

I found this website when my adult male wolf was ill a couple weeks ago. Looks great, Im sort of new to forums as a whole, so please be gentle with us. LOL.

Puppyluv
July 31st, 2005, 10:12 PM
Welcome to the board Sheba! out of curiosity- actual wolves? or "wolves" being dogs that look like wolves?

Sheba
July 31st, 2005, 10:15 PM
Hey, thanks for responding, yes actual wolves...real ones. I had put their website in wrong so i just fixed it. There are some pics and bio info there on them. Canadian Timbers, and really wonderful animals to coexist with.

Puppyluv
July 31st, 2005, 10:30 PM
Wow. they sure are beautiful. just thought i'd check, as we refer to our belgian sheepdog as a wolf :D

StaceyB
July 31st, 2005, 11:23 PM
Nice pics. Are you breeding them? I noticed more than the three in the pics. Also, you mentioned Tess, who is she?

shannon1233A
August 1st, 2005, 08:47 AM
I don't see website listed, or am I missing something, LOL Welcome!

StaceyB
August 1st, 2005, 08:51 AM
Click on user name, drop down list options, then to homepage.

chico2
August 1st, 2005, 09:16 AM
Sheba,I don't generally agree with"taming"or keeping this magnificent animal in capture,if your wolves can help educate people about them,I guess it's not such a bad thing,as long as everyone do not go out looking for a wolf-pup for a pet.
They are beautiful animals and their intelligence and sense of loyalty to their pack intrigues me.I've read several books on wolves and their behaviours and the cruelty of humans.
I prefer to see them in the wild,as I do any wild animal,still,your wolves are beautiful..http://bestsmileys.com/animals/2.gif

twodogsandacat
August 1st, 2005, 10:40 AM
Wow Sheba Ė fantastic looking animals.

There are many opposing views on owning wolves as pets and without all the information I would say my views pretty much are in line with Chico2. I hope this doesnít spin this thread off topic. :fingerscr

Question: I have read that wolves are extremely loyal to the Ďpackí and will bond with all family members during a so-called Ďimprintingí period. Once that period closes they will not accept any newcomers into the pack. Whatís your experience with that statement?

Rottielover
August 1st, 2005, 10:47 AM
I want to see her website, I can not find it in her public profile ???? where exactly is it ???

Puppyluv
August 1st, 2005, 10:55 AM
Rottielover- single click on Sheba's name and the third option on the scroll list should be "Visit Sheba's Homepage!" Hope that helps :)

StaceyB
August 1st, 2005, 10:56 AM
Sorry, I was a little off. Click on her name. In the dropdown it will have an option for homepage, click on that. It will bring you to her site.

CyberKitten
August 1st, 2005, 01:07 PM
I am with Chico on tyhis. I love wolves but they are wild creatures and unless they need rescue - and then reellease back to gthe wild - I do not agree they should be pets. I do know of one man - friend of a friend in BC - who tamed a wolf out of necessity (He rescued the wolf as a cub and unfortunately, the cub became much too dependent on him. So the wolf is now a well trained pet and obviously, a curiosity in the small community they live in. But he would not have done this by choice - he is a biologist by training so professionally would release wild creatures to their natural habitats where they do better. But this one is an exception - will check out your site tho).

I do hope you're not breeding them, yikes!! Did you rescue these guys? Is that how it happened?

CyberKitten
August 1st, 2005, 01:11 PM
Oy vey as they say!! I peeked at your site and I am sorry, I do not agree with this. Why are they in cages in some pix? They don't live like that do they????

Luba
August 1st, 2005, 03:33 PM
Where did you get these wolves from and why ?

Puppyluv
August 1st, 2005, 04:00 PM
having spent 1/2 of my childhood in the mountains and regularily living with wild wolves litterally sleeping on our balcony.. I'm not even going to get involved on my oppinions on this...
I will however say that your wolves are beautiful, and i TRULY hope there is a good reason as to why/how you acquired them

Luba
August 1st, 2005, 06:16 PM
Wild vs tame or in sanctuary is different

IMHO unless they need rehabilitation they should never be in captivity.

Puppyluv
August 1st, 2005, 07:28 PM
I agree 100% Luba :)

(the wolves that slept on our balcony-and still do-did so out of choice because of where our houses were... deffinately not because we made them!)

coppperbelle
August 1st, 2005, 09:48 PM
I don't know the circumstances of why she keeps wolves as pets but I do know that in some native cultures it is custom to keep them captive.

Luba
August 1st, 2005, 09:52 PM
Well in some cultures it is also permitted to capture wild monkeys, hold them in containers underneath dining tables where a small circle is cut out of the centre. The Monkey's head is held in place and each diner is given a little club to hit the little monkey over the head, in essence bashing it's brains in until it dies. They then dine on the brains.

Just because it's something that is cultural doesn't make it right.

Puppyluv
August 1st, 2005, 09:58 PM
please tell me thats not true..... :sad:

CyberKitten
August 1st, 2005, 09:58 PM
Some cultures also eat bunnies and dogs, I find that upsetting as well!

Wolves - unless there is an absolutely excellent reason for an alternative - belong in the wild!! Period!

mona_b
August 1st, 2005, 10:27 PM
OMG Luba.I just about tossed my cookies(or should I say banana) :yuck: :yuck: :yuck:

Yes Puppyluv,Monkey brains is devoured in certain countries. :mad: :evil:

Sheba,your wolves are beautiful.But I am too curious as to why you have them.

Luba
August 1st, 2005, 11:21 PM
I wish I were kidding...

Uh Mona what kind of cookies... LOL kidding! haha

Sheba
August 1st, 2005, 11:49 PM
Well this certainly has opened a can of worms close to my heart. Tess by the way is the mother of Kala and Atsilla. She is so lovable and wonderful to be around. To answer the accepting others into the pack, they will at anytime, in fact as they mature they become less, letís say pushy about it. Yes they do bond and I will say that our door is never closed as they like to come and go as they wish. I however donít fear a thing; NO one messes with mama LOL thatís me. I have never had better friends or companions than my babies. I would be the first to tell anyone they do not want to try these guys. The responsibility that goes with them is not to be taken lightly. We donít breed them, as I donít believe that too many people have the lifestyle to raise them. You do not make them conform to you; rather you conform to them. The cage you seeÖis not a cage. It is our home, we travel the country in a motor home and have a 15 x 20 foot kennel that attaches to the home

To address the rest I will put it as tutorial as possible. I will first ask where everyoneís opinion has been when the wolves were getting slaughtered because we read too many red riding hood stories. Wolves are the closest things to us socially that exist and are as smart if not smarter than most humans I have met. They arenít pets and are not tame. It is only the human who puts them in groups such as wild or owned. We have raised them to be what they are; wolves. Teaching them as they grew was like bringing up any loving child and we hope that the social skills and knowledge we gave them is enough. They have not been denied any growth. They learned as wolves, they played as wolves, and were disciplined as wolves. Watching Wolf, my hubby interact with them is simply wonderful. He and Osiyo are exactly the same and to watch how they respect each other and also handle their arguments is nothing short of being in the "wild". Really people I could go on forever about this topic, but I have found I lied and this isnít tutorial, so I will just say you are welcome to your opinions but donít judge what you do not know. As Wolf says "Yeah lets keep them in the wild to be shot and eat rats, who cares that they are just as smart as we are but apparently we are too stupid to get along with them". So whatever negative we get we know just one thing and thatís that our life is wonderful being with these guys and I have no complaints from them either. Instead of judging the idea, lets ask them whether they would rather have rats or steak. LOL. I know what they will pick already. I really donít want to discuss what humans think about us living with them, but if you have any questions, I will be happy to address them.

Joey.E.CockersMommy
August 2nd, 2005, 12:35 AM
I think your site is interesting and you could probably educate a lot of people with your knowledge about them. After google Canadian Timber wolves the first site I came upon was a hunting expedition for them. Very sad I am not sure what they want with these beautiful animals. When you say they are free to come and go as they please if they decided to go live in the wild you would be accepting of this.
By the way welcome to the forum. :)

Luba
August 2nd, 2005, 12:36 AM
I really don't understand where you got them from, this you havent' explained or not that I've read anywhere. They can't be raised as if wild wolves as you indicate, if you are feeding them, training them and travelling with them...they are 'pets' very simply.

I also disagree with people keeping other exotics in captivity and as pets.

To me there is no reason/need.

You make this quote:

Yeah lets keep them in the wild to be shot and eat rats, who cares that they are just as smart as we are but apparently we are too stupid to get along with them".

But you don't respect the fact they are creatures of the wild and thus should remain. I don't agree with 'too stupid to get along with them'....we shouldn't be trucking them around in our motorhomes having them live in cages.

You may be a very lovely person and some part of you feels you are doing right, but doing right by who/by whom and for whom?

Prin
August 2nd, 2005, 03:05 AM
Maybe I'm dense, but what makes them wolves and not huskies? :o

shannon1233A
August 2nd, 2005, 08:42 AM
Well okay, I waited for you response before forming my opinion. You state they are wild, they are wolves and you encourage that. However, with all due respect, you are breaking their biggest wolf instinct, and that is to be free, to be wild, to form their own pack as they choose. You feed them what you want them to eat albeit steak, they are not hunting as a pack as they would in the wild, and you make it very clear, you, a human are head of the hiearchy. They do not travel the hills and mountains freely, but in a motor home, and I noticed in some pictures are on a harness, or rope being used to interact with humans. They are not free to breed, (thank goodness) in your captivity, as they would in the wild, which also affects the essence of the whole wolf personality and all that comes with it within the pack. This is not the true essence of a wolf.

State all you want these are wild wolves, they are in fact wolves made into pets. That IMHO is just wrong. It's too bad, you were not able to find another way of helping these wild animals survive along side humans by educating the public about them WITHOUT having them as captive pets.

I also read your site, maybe it's new? Maybe I missed some of it, but no where did I see a fact sheet about wolves, describing all their characteristics, personality, etc. in the wild. I hope you add that, and really educate people on these beautiful wild creatures if that is your real intention.

mona_b
August 2nd, 2005, 09:14 AM
Ok,you say you don't breed them.BUT you had to at one point.

This from your site.

We got Osiyo at 5 weeks(seems pretty young to me.What happened to his Mom?)Jan 27/01

Then you have Kala(Son of Osiyo)May 26/03

Then Astilla,also born May 26/03...

Then of course Tess who is the mother of the two.

Why would you mess with nature and breed them?


This from your site.

"We have gone through the steps to socialize them with humans as much as possible. The wolves have made the transition wonderfully, but alas, people aren't as willing to give up their piece of the sidewalk yet. We travel the country trying to educate and allow people to see for themselves what wonderful friends the wolves are"

You have demesticated a wild animal.Something a Wolf shouldn't be.They should be free in the wild.And now you have them as pets.

Sure,educate people by saying,yes you too can can have a wolf for a pet.And please don't think that this isn't what they are thinking.

Bears are being slaughtered also,does that mean we should take them out of the wild and make them pets?

Sorry,but IMHO,what you have done is wrong.

chico2
August 2nd, 2005, 09:18 AM
Sheba,thank you for coming back,giving us some more info.
You say Tess is the mother of Kayla and Atsilla,how did you happen to take care of Tess??
Are they neutered/spayed?
I agree the beautiful wolf should be free,never kept captive,but maybe circumstances made you keep pregnant Tess.
The saddest thing I ever saw,was two wolves laying around almost comatose at a Zoo in Sweden,their eyes were dead almost as if they'd lost the will to live,my first and last visit to the Zoo :evil:
This is a very sensitive subject,on the one hand I envy you your close contact on the other I'd like to see them running free.
For your wolves,whom you obviously love very much,a life in the wild is probably out of the question,since they know no other life than with you.I just hope it does not encourage others,not as loving as you,to steal wolf-cubs for domestication.

StaceyB
August 2nd, 2005, 09:20 AM
I don't think we should be keeping wolves and promoting them as pets. There are far too many people that will think they can do the same as you. That just puts the wolves as well as the people in a very dangerous position. It would have been one thing if you brought them in due to a needed rescue but you purchased them as pups with the intent to keep them as pets. I would like to know what education you are offering in your travels. They do need to be understood, respected and protected as they live in the wild. If anything were to god forbid happen to you and your husband, what would then happen to these wolves.

On the other side of this, all of our dogs are here because many years ago people kept wolves as pets, breeding them and tweeking certain characteristics to develop all the beloved pooches we have today.

chico2
August 2nd, 2005, 09:23 AM
Sorry,I guess I missed the part on the site,saying they were purchased and bred,not rescued :sad:

StaceyB
August 2nd, 2005, 09:30 AM
I am not sure that it said anywhere that she was breeding them but you may want to read the bios as to where they came from.

chico2
August 2nd, 2005, 09:48 AM
Thank's Stacey,I will..

Puppyluv
August 2nd, 2005, 10:23 AM
Sheba-obviously you care about your wolves and the well-being of wolves in general. But I don't see how domesticating a couple of wolves benefits the timbers as a whole... why not donate to a wolf protection organization, or work on protecting them in the wild, rather than pulling them out of the wild and into your travelling home!!

Luba
August 2nd, 2005, 11:53 AM
I would tend to think it is illegal to have a wolf as a pet or in captivity without lets say a licence to operate a sanctuary or zoo.

Since you have neither, then this must be illegal.

Buying wolf pups, encouraging the capture and captivity of this beautiful wild creature. You are not doing yourself or these lovely animal any good, and the reasons for having them rest mainly on ideas of selfishness for ones self and not for the betterment of the animal.

You describe one of these wolves as being your protector? Did I read that right? (SMH)

Now you've destroyed these wolves you do have, they can never be reintroduced to living wild as they should, wild and free. They'd be shot and killed because they wouldn't be able to hunt and survive, they do not have a wild pack to belong to and may be killed by other wolves for not knowing the heirarchy of such.

So there they live at the end of a chain or in a cage, because you decided you wanted them.

How very very sad for them. How very very selfish of you.

Puppyluv
August 2nd, 2005, 12:15 PM
I agree Luba, truly sad :sad:
However, nothing illegal seems to be happening:
From: http://homepages.ius.edu/MGIBBS/Laws.htm

NEVADA

NAC 503.140: A Division of Wildlife license or permit is not required to import or possess (wolves.). However, other state agencies or local (county/city) entities may have special regulations or ordinances regarding their ownership. Wolf Hybrids are not regulated at a state level.

So it seems that as long as people want to remove these beautiful creatures from the wild, they can (at least in Nevada) :sad:

mona_b
August 2nd, 2005, 12:23 PM
I am not sure that it said anywhere that she was breeding them but you may want to read the bios as to where they came from.

She may not be breeding them now,but she definately did.That's how Astilla and Kala came about.The father is Osiyo(she recived at 5 weeks old) and Mom is Tess.

Luba
August 2nd, 2005, 12:48 PM
Thats awful that it's not illegal, it SHOULD be!

Where are the brains of the laws that be...oh wait political issue.? :p

Sheba
August 2nd, 2005, 01:01 PM
Okay, I will try my best to get to everyone. We did not rip them from the wild we acquired Osiyo in Nevada 4 years ago from a breeder who had 4 generations on site. Tess lives in Nebraska on a cattle ranch and that is when Osiyo mated with her. Before I go further I would like to say since you are so happy to judge us that you should first at least know what you are talking about before you blurt out facts on wolves. Who do we think we are that we can sit and be so pompous that we as humans can be bleeding hearts but yet which part of their world have you sanctioned being destroyed in the name of progress. Oh I forgot they are just animals they have no rights to progress. Your only opinion should be that you wouldnít want one, for you have no knowledge nor right to decide anything for us or them. Letís face it you are on a pet site and where did you get your pets from. I myself think it is rude to have an animal and think of it as just a pet. So basically what you are saying is oh well it gives me companionship but not worth more than just a pet. This will be my last entry here because as usual people are just too arrogant to understand anything and form opinions on whatever they want with no facts at all. Now it is illegal to take a wolf out of the wild and would be just as rude as interbreeding your "pets" for the sake of perfect lines.

Joey: yes if they wanted to go into the wild and live we have already decided that it is their right to do. Something again we as humans take for granite is that they cant make the decision on their own, Tess, the female Osiyo mated with, lives on a cattle ranch and has full run of anywhere she wants to go and even goes on cattle drives with them. She chooses to be with her pack which too bad isnít other wolves but the ones sheís loves. Her choice.

Luba: What exotic animals are you even talking about, none of you would have your pets if it wasnít for an exotic animal of some kind at sometime so lets just stop breeding period and let them all just die off and have no pets, your argument would be that they arenít exotic anymore well mine are 4th and 5th generation at least "captive" and ok instead of us maybe we should just have let someone else get them that would have abused them. Again they were born and raised in captivity. Oh and if they are born and raised in this captivity that everyone keeps saying then duh so are you. Maybe we should just close all the supermarkets and let humans fend for themselves, or is it your choice not to hunt for all your food.
As far as stupidity just look at how people again blurt things out without taking the time to actually knowing what they are talking about. There is no recorded history of humans being attacked by wolves in the wild but we shoot them just because they are there. We fear them because they will rip our throats out. How many people are attacked by pets hmmmm. Also we make quotes because at least we researched and live with what we say.

Prin: Huskies are bread with huskies to be huskies. That is man interfering and making it look exactly the way they want them to be. Wolves, dogs, foxes, coyotes are all in the same family and can breed hence the red wolf which is a wolf and a coyote. There are differences between wolves and dogs though, like number of teeth and such. Wolves also have cognitive thought as apposed to just instinct. They think things out instead of just inbred reactions.

shannon: Ok typical I donít know but ill spout off anyway. Where did you get these facts? First of all they are not free to breed in the wild. Only the alpha male and alpha female breed and the female is the one who will stop the others from breeding. As I see it, it is their own way of preventing close interbreeding but since I didnít ask then I am guessing. Hunting as a pack, and this benefits them how? I am not disputing the fact that a wolf raised in the wild should not stay there just as you are raised by humans and then being dropped into the wilderness to fend for yourself. Or if thatís the best thing then maybe again or should I say why donít you do it. Again the wolves made into pets. What were you made into and if you all can not think of your companions other than pets then I feel sorry for them. Your quote My dogs are more than my best friends, they're family quit thinking you are the only one that can think that.

Mona: again a speaker from the hip. If your child was unsocial you would send them to a psychologist for help but stupid to allow my wolves to socialize. That is called responsible. People get it through your heads you use the word wild apparently because itís all you know but to them what are we. The ones in the wilderness are there by fate and they do what they need to survive just like we do with where we were born. They however donít have any other choices because if they did venture near us they would be killed and why? When was your last experience of being attacked by wolves? As far as being wrong there is nothing more wrong than attacking someone with no knowledge or care for anything but your own fears.

Chico: I explained Tess already up further and atsilla is spade as it seemed better than the alternative and that would have been interbreeding or having to cage and separate atsilla when she was in heat. Not our favorite thing to do but wolf decided it was best for them all and he is the alpha of the pack so yes he has that right.

Stacey: you are right "We" as in you shouldnít have them nor do I think 99.9% of people who think they do should. I could have made a fortune from them if I wanted to. I choose not to simply because humans canít be trusted with them they are not dogs and can not be treated as such but the stupidity to say they arenít happy is about insane.

Puppluv: Again I donít feel they have been domesticated in the small way we think of the word. Our goal was to show people that they are not the vicious big bad wolves that we are taught. They donít need to be slaughtered and we were hoping that we could show the next generation that they are wonderful animals that can co-exist in our world. We didnít pull them from the wild as I have already said. We chose to first have them because Wolf first is a healer and spiritually is guided by the wolf. Secondly he wanted me to have a companion that was smarter and a better judge of bad people than I am. Osiyo is exactly that. as far as the chain of command he is second and I do what he says. This is all things you canít understand unless you live it because most people would be appalled by the fact that I am sub to an animal. But proven time and time again he is better at controlling my environment more than I am. Example of intelligence and structure. When I go out with Osiyo alone he is right at my side watching everything and caring for me to the point of directing me away from danger which he has a few times. When Wolf goes with us he is at the end of his leash or off it playing and doing his fun stuff and knows that Wolf is in charge now and I am his problem now LOL....This is all you have to be there we as people only take into accord the bad things we hear and yes there is lots of abuse out there and it isnít just about wolves.

Luba: First of all again you know nothing about what you are talking about and I will say again they arenít and werenít taken from the wild which is illegal. We can not reintroduce them to the wild since they never have been in it.


Ok people you go be sanctimonious uneducated people and make up all you want and thatís why they are still being slaughtered. Reintroducing them to the wild as you all want for them is getting them slaughtered still. If you do care so much then educate yourselves and stand up for them. The ones that are being introduced to the wild are still being shot on site by the loving humans you so much want to live with. We like living with them and if you donít like it then too bad. We do not need to answer to you and you are the reason that they are in the position that they are. Wolves have only one natural predator and that is humans so either be part of the solution or keep your opinions to yourself because you have no right spouting off about things you do not know. When we cease to learn we become stupid. I will bid you all farewell and sadly again instead of taking the opportunity to gain some knowledge and really get to enjoy nature you all sit petting your pets and judge everyone else. Sad though we could have helped you understand them better but now you get to be ignorant because the majority still will not take a minute to gain any knowledge so Byeeeeeeee

Oh and to one yesterday there is no native culture that keeps wolves captive but apparently the drunk who told you that was a good source of info. Stay out of the bars and try reading more. Oh forgot the trained thing..unlike you we do not and for that matter can not train them. To think that they would even just sit on command is ludicrous and if they could would flip us the bird. They were given the knowledge to exist in their environment and learned well. So go make your dogs do tricks because it is cute but as for us we will just love our pack and do what we do. They do things because they love and respect us, not because of a conditioned response such as a slap or a treat. You go ahead and raise your hand to one of them. Hope you donít like your hand..

White Wolf
August 2nd, 2005, 01:06 PM
Closed. Enough ganging up on Sheba. Thanks, WW