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Help!!!!! My Fish.............

heidiho
July 27th, 2005, 09:35 AM
HEY!! I dotn know if anyone knows anything about the chinese fighting fish,but i changed his water 2 nights ago{which i do a couple of times a month} ever since then he only stays at the bottom of the tank he goes from one side of the bottom to the other,does not come up to the top,or swim around,or eat,i thought he was dead yesterday he was not moving but he finally did.HELP,is he slowly dying ??? I really dont know what u do when u have a fish that might be sick////I just hope he is not suffering right now...It is sad to see.....

StaceyB
July 27th, 2005, 09:46 AM
Beta or Siamese fighting fish can live in small bowls because they can come up for air. In the wild they live in mucky, disgusting water in the rice beds, little pockets of water.
When you did the water change, did you use any water conditioners. Have you noticed any physical changes. How long have you had him.

heidiho
July 27th, 2005, 10:07 AM
I got him right after i had to get rid of my dog which is about 10 months ago,he was fine before i changed the water,i didnt do anything different this time than before,i didnt put anything in the water...Sounds dumb but i know my fish when i turn on the light in the morning he starts swimming around and stuff,he is not moving from the bottom of the bowl at all,i will see him on one side then go look ten minutes later and he is on the other side on the bottom..I really thought he was dead i was moving the bowl and stuff and he did not move..Finally he moved a little and i knew he was alive.I dont know what the hell to do...I just dont know if he is suffering or not...

StaceyB
July 27th, 2005, 10:16 AM
You should really get some conditioner for the water. The chemicals and such in tap water is too dangerous for fish. Was he fine before you did the water change. Was the water room temp or did you shock him. He may have been fine every other time but he may not have been as healthy this time. What are you feeding. Where do you keep the bowl.

heidiho
July 27th, 2005, 10:31 AM
Ok i will get that stuff, bowl is in the same spot as always on the bar in my kitchen,water temp was the same as i always change it,i really dont know i didnt do anything different......I did feed him differnet food the day before i gave him a little bit of blood worms,could that be it.>>> But he was fine after that,it seems since i changed the water

StaceyB
July 27th, 2005, 10:40 AM
No, the blood worms should have been fine. In my opinion, it was the water.

heidiho
July 27th, 2005, 10:57 AM
Should i change it again tonight,or will it be to much for him..

StaceyB
July 27th, 2005, 11:00 AM
No, just add the stuff.

pags
July 27th, 2005, 11:10 AM
My mom always keeps a Beta and she has each one for years... Every now and then she would get a little impatient about waiting for the water to get to room temp and her fish will inevitably react the way you described, heidi... So shock from water that's too cool could do it. I asked her about it when I read your post though and she said what she has noticed is that if she overcleans the bowl.. as in she cleans out the rocks and really gets it sparkling clean -- her fish HATES it and will mope at the bottom of the bowl for days until some algae grows back in. So now she keeps an algae-coated plant in the bowl with him at all times and he's much perkier. I am certainly no fish expert -- so I have no idea. Just passing along what Mom said. :)

heidiho
July 27th, 2005, 11:52 AM
How funny i am the same way with cleaning it,i just feel bad dont want him living in his own poop and stuff you know....I clean it every week,all the food that drops to the bottom and stuff,isnt that bad for them..A dirty bowl??

shannon1233A
July 27th, 2005, 12:30 PM
I used to have them as well, and a 150 gallon aquarium with Chiclids. Just a suggestion, but never do a complete water change, only maybe 1/3 at a time. I would put my Siamese Fighting Fish in a plastic bowl or vase with 2/3 or the original water, and clean their original vase, rocks etc. I wouldn't scrub the algae off the rocks, only rinse them to get the poop off, so there was always some algae still in the established new home. It could be shock, hopefully he'll be okay. What color is he? I had a blue one and a red one, in seperate containers of course, but across the room from each other.

heidiho
July 27th, 2005, 01:13 PM
He is red,see and when i clean it always scrub the tree and little treasure chest in there....I just dont get it i have been doing it this way since i got him..................So you dont think he is slowly dying so u???????????????

StaceyB
July 27th, 2005, 01:15 PM
When you start a tank w/ everything clean and fresh water your tank has to go through a cycle to balance everything, ph, amonia, nitrates, etc. The cycle doesn't start until you add something living, fish. It takes a little over a month to complete the first cycle. Everything will spike up and down throughout the cycle. This is what makes it hard on the fish. The more fish you add the more dangerous it becomes. This is why so many people that set up new tanks have so much trouble. They want to fill it with fish all at once.
For new tanks: Set up everything fill and run for a few days to make sure there is no problem with the system. Purchase 1 fish and wait a month. Don't test water or do any water changes until month is up. Test water to see if initial cycle is complete. If it is you are safe to add the rest of the fish. If not wait another week and test again. Now that the cycle is complete and you have added the fish, replace no more than 1/3 water every couple weeks. Never empty tank all the way or you will be starting from scratch. Never use cleaner of any kind on any part of the tank or anything that goes in it.
Max size of fish for tank, pick w/ full grown size in mind. For tropicals 1 inch per gallon. One neon uses 1 1/2 gallons. Cichlids 1 inch per 2 gallons of water and goldfish at 1 inch per 5 gallons.
Make sure you have a good filtration system and heater if needed.
Betas are one of the only fish that can or should ever live in a bowl, because they can come up for air.

StaceyB
July 27th, 2005, 01:19 PM
Chlorine/ chloramine are in tap water. Sitting the water out over night will remove the chlorine but not chloramine. That needs to be removed with water conditioner. Both are dangerous for the health of fish.

Jackie467
July 27th, 2005, 03:13 PM
Actually when a betta (simese fighting fish) is living in a small bowl the water does need to be changed completely every week. If the food sinks to the bottom it goes bad and poisens the water. Partial water changes are for larger tanks, when it's in a bowl it should be changed 100 pecent.

Betta fish are actully very slow moving and often like to lay at the bottom of the bowl. This is not uncommon though every fish is different. Normally laying at the bottom of the bowl wouldn't be alarming, but if this is not your betta's normal behavior it could mean sickness.

You definatly have to use water conditioner. The chlorine in the water will easily stress and kill a fish very quickly. If you don't want to use a water conditioner leaving the water stand over night will allow the chlorine to evaporate making the water safe. I have never personally used that method and I don't trust it, but accourding to what I have read it should work with no problems.

Also betta fish usually only live about 2 to 3 years, and if you get them from a pet store there really isn't any way to know how old they are when you get them.

heidiho
July 27th, 2005, 03:27 PM
It is just a small tank,it does have a filter,but it is not big at all,and i do change all the water not just partial ..No he never lays at the bottom all the time like this..Something is wrong for sure,i just dont know what to do..........................

Jackie467
July 27th, 2005, 03:35 PM
does he look any different than he usually does? any white spots or ragged fins? Bettas often get a disease called fin rot, where the fins get ragged and look like they are rotting away. Does he have a heater? Bettas require water no lower in tempeture than 75 F. Is it a power filter? Bettas do not like fast moving water and it can stress them out causing their immune system to lower considerably allowing them to catch deseases.

I willing to bet it is the chlorine in the water. try getting some water conditioner and see if it perks him up. If you tell the person at the pet store that you need water conditioner for tap water for your fish they should be able to give you exactly what you need.

StaceyB
July 27th, 2005, 03:38 PM
As far as I can remember, the beta that is bought in a pet store is nearly 2yrs when you get it. When the males and females are young they look the same until the male grows those beautiful fins. You are unable to tell the sex until this happens. I will check and verify this.
Chloramine does not disipate by standing. The molecules are bonded. You need the conditioner to get rid of it.

heidiho
July 27th, 2005, 03:39 PM
No there is no heater on it...He looks the same to me,his belly looked a little bigger but that could be my imagination running wild....I will get that stuff tonight,i am afraid to go home,,,,,,,,,,,,hope he is not d***

Wudjah
July 27th, 2005, 03:39 PM
Well, I don't know about all the bowl changes. I admit that I'm probably not the most responsible fishy owner but I have a hard time killing them. My betta lives in a fairly large vase with a live plant. I clean it about once a month (adding water inbetween because of evaporation). Once I noticed a lot of old floating food/slime on top so I cleaned it and started feeding him less and I haven't had the problem since. When I do clean the vase I put him in a measuring cup with the original vase water, do a quick clean of his bowl (no hard scrubbing of the rocks or plant) and then add him and the water back into the vase that is filled with tap water - no conditioners. It's always worked for me this way and my fish have always been quite healthy and live for years.
My daughter also keeps two comet goldfish in her room (I look after them). Her first one just died - but we had him for two years and he looked completely healthy when I found him. I quarantined his bowl mate (had him for 1 year) for 2 weeks and when nothing happened I added another younger comet last week and they are both doing great. I do the same routine with their bowl although they don't have a live plant because they ate the last one.
I know I'll probably get blasted for this, but I honestly think that fish like bettas and goldfish die so easily because their owners are always fussing over their bowls/tanks. It's just strange that I do so little and my fish live for so long.....

heidiho
July 27th, 2005, 03:41 PM
Well I Am Not Gonna Blast U For It,i Have Been Doing The Same Thing For The Last Ten Months And He Has Always Been Fine,i Will Stop Scrubbing The Tree And Treasure Chest Decor I Have In There,but It Is Almost A Year And He Has Been Fien,i Dont Know....

Wudjah
July 27th, 2005, 03:48 PM
Well, I'm a firm believer of "whatever works". One thing I just thought of though - I know my tap water has been a bit stinky lately - likely due to the lack of rain and hot weather. Maybe it's just something in your tap water THIS TIME around.

chico2
July 27th, 2005, 03:50 PM
Aww Heidi,I hope he does not die on you,they are beautiful fish..good luck!!

StaceyB
July 27th, 2005, 03:58 PM
Goldfish are supposed to live 20 yrs. They produce amonia in everything they do, they produce it to such high levels that they end up killing themselves.
In Ottawa city water there is chloramine in the water. Each city is different.

Jackie467
July 27th, 2005, 03:58 PM
Here is a website with some info on care for bettas. It may be helpful.

http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/anabantids2/p/betta.htm

This is what it says for lifespan.
Lifespan: 2-3 years

If he seems bloated he may be constipated. try not feeding him for a day to clean out his system. If he still seems bloated you might try a salt bath but that is info you'll have to look up on the internet or talk to a vet about because I'v never done it.

You may also want to take the temp of the water and make sure it's not too low. He may need a heater.

Wudjah
July 27th, 2005, 04:02 PM
I don't think comet/feeder goldfish live for 20 years.... I could see pond fish/koi living for that long though.

Wudjah
July 27th, 2005, 04:08 PM
Correction, I don't think the goldfish I have are comets - they are simply feeder fish, about 2" long or so when they stopped growing. I just read that comets get really big and can live for 7-14 years.

heidiho
July 27th, 2005, 04:34 PM
Thanks Chico i hope not either,i got him the day i dropped off Damien for good,so he is kind of special{no i am not a weirdo,i know he is just a fish]but i just dotn know if he is suffering,i will check out that website..

chico2
July 28th, 2005, 07:53 AM
Heidi,there is no such thing as"only"a fish,it's a living being.
I remember dismantling our large aquarium(sp?)did not have the heart to flush the fish,the pet-shop took them for me.
I had a large Pleco,whom I adored :D a friend of mine gave him a new home and I cried when I dropped him off... :sad:
It was to have been hubbys fishtank,"something he always wanted",sure!!Guess who ended up taking care of those fishies and the tank :D

heidiho
July 28th, 2005, 10:38 AM
WEll i honestly dont know what to do,i got the tap water conditioner,this morning i really thought he wad dead he would NOT move for nothing,so i got the fish net thing and when i put it in there he finally moved,so he is still alive but just will not move from the bottom of the tank or eat,..... :sad: :sad:

pags
July 28th, 2005, 10:45 AM
Aw heidi! I'm sorry.. I hope the little bugger pulls through this -- is just having a rough time. I know how attached my mom gets to her fish (and I know how I would be if I had one!!) She is sure people would think she's nuts so I'm the only one she talks to about it... :) (But her fish knows her voice - I swear to you. He HATES me and puffs up like I'm a giant beta in his territory... but he swims to mom's fingers and looks like he'd like to be petted.)

Good luck with the little guy. I hope this is just one of those passing things!!!

heidiho
July 28th, 2005, 12:26 PM
Thanks,i swear he does know me to,i got him the day i had to drop off my gsd to his new home,so it makes him somewhat special to me...I hope he does to

Jackie467
July 28th, 2005, 02:09 PM
I'm sorry to hear that. You may be able to take him to a pet store and ask if they have any ideas as to whats wrong with him. usually a pet store will have at least one person on the staff who can at least diagnose if it's a treatable desease. Some vets will treat fish, you could try that. You could look up the info and try a salt bath, but like I said I'v never done that before so I don't know a whole lot about it.

I get very attached to my fish. My betta recently died :sad:. but he was old I had him for about a year and a half and he was probably a year old when I got him.

Once I had a saltwater fish tank, I had this clown fish that I just loved named gypsy, she would follow my finger around the glass and actully let me pet her. I would put my finger in the top of the tank and she would rub up against it, she was the only fish I ever had that did that. I used to feed them frozen brineshrimp from a net. Well they would get all excited and swim into the net, one day gypsy swam into the net and I didn't see her so the next day I go to feed them and I found that I had killed her. I cried for hours, I felt so bad. After that I was paranoid about the net everytime I feed them.

pags
July 28th, 2005, 02:12 PM
Oh Jackie!!!!!! :grouphug: That made me cry!!!! I'm so sorry!!!

heidiho
July 28th, 2005, 02:41 PM
That is sad,i'm sorry....You know when i read that it said they should be in a 3 gallon tank,mine is in a one gaalon tank,and when u go to pestmart they are in a cup..I dont get it...

Jackie467
July 28th, 2005, 02:52 PM
Thanks, I actully miss that fish a lot.

You know when i read that it said they should be in a 3 gallon tank,mine is in a one gaalon tank,and when u go to pestmart they are in a cup..I dont get it...

Mainly a larger tank is perferred because a one gallon can't accomadate a heater, and bettas need warm water.

They are kept in cups at the store because it's only temporary until they get a home, and it wouldn't make sense to have 50 3 gallon tanks all over. But I still don't agree with this, I think they should be at least kept in a gallon of water at the store. Unfortunately that is why many bettas you buy at places like petsmart are sick, or have lowered immune systems. The place I buy my fish is a fish and reptile specialty store so they don't have many bettas and keep the ones they do have in two gallon tanks, plus since it's a fish and reptile store they keep the temp pretty high in the store eliminating the need for heaters in the betta tanks.

heidiho
July 28th, 2005, 02:55 PM
It is sad,i hate going there seeing that,my god it is the size of a coffee cup/./I never knew they needed a heater,he has never had one....

Jackie467
July 28th, 2005, 02:59 PM
It is sad,i hate going there seeing that,my god it is the size of a coffee cup/./I never knew they needed a heater,he has never had one....

It is possible that because he didn't have a heater his immune system slowly lowered allowing him to get a sickness. If the water conditions are not at their optimum it stresses the fish out lowering their immune system so that they eventully get sick. Most fish are very sesitive to the water conditions.

I had this happen to me in my large tank not long ago. My nitrite levels got too high (my fault for missig a water change) and it stressed my fish so badly I had an outbreak of ich. Luckly I got it treated and only lost one fish to it.

heidiho
July 28th, 2005, 03:04 PM
I will check out the heaters i did get the conditioner

heidiho
July 29th, 2005, 02:09 PM
This Is Hard To Write,last Night He Was Not Moving I Moved The Tank A Little And He Started Trying To Swim And Was Just Like Flipping Over And Over And Went To The Bottom Of The Tank He Is Now Laying On His Side,i Believe He Is Slowly Dying And I Dont Know What To Do???????????????has Not Eaten At All That I Have Seen Either In 4 Days

StaceyB
July 29th, 2005, 02:25 PM
How hot is the water? Some fish will become less/more active depending on the temp. Go back to the reg diet.

Jackie467
July 29th, 2005, 02:47 PM
I'm sorry to hear that, I don't know that there is a lot more you can do. It may just be his time. You can try a vet but most people don't take their fish to vets because there usually isn't anything a vet can do. Maybe you can try a special treat (like the blood worms) to see if that will at least get him to eat something.

I'm really sorry. It's hard to see a pet sick no matter what it is. Sometimes even worst with a fish because there isn't a lot that can be done even by vets.

chico2
July 29th, 2005, 03:29 PM
Awww Heidi I am so sorry,but I think at this stage there is not much more you can do,it's sad,but I believe he's dying...maybe you did nothing wrong,maybe it's just his time to go,anyway :sorry:

Sneaky
July 29th, 2005, 07:28 PM
Heidi,
Im sorry but my guess is he is just old.
Most of the nice big well developed males you get in
pet stores are already 2-3 years old, they are usually retired breeders.
The only way to make sure you get a young betta is to go through
actual betta breeders.

"Only a fish"- well fish are very complex creatures actually.
They are highly intelligent, have very long memories,
and can feel pain. Flushing a live fish down the toilet is
cruel, as once the fish hits the septic field or sewer, they die
an extremely painful slow death in the toxic waste.
You should always return fish to pet stores if you dont want them anymore.
For sick fish you can properly and painless euthanize them the same as a dog or cat- but with clove oil 1 part to 5 parts water well mixed, fish goes to sleep and dies painlessly. - this is for only very ill or wounded fish you cannot save by medical treatments.
Some fish have been proven to be able to remember a school mate or sibling 10+ years after being seperated from them!
Having kept a lot of fish now, and some very intelligent ones such as
angelfish, loaches, and gouramis, I would say fish are much more intelligent than we give them credit for. Watch them often enough and you can even see them problem solving!
I love all my fish, I cry each and every time one dies. It is no different than losing any other pet for me.

shannon1233A
July 30th, 2005, 12:36 PM
I'm so sorry to read your last post. I see you haven't been back since that, I hope that isn't a bad sign....any update hun?

heidiho
August 1st, 2005, 10:01 AM
I dont have a computer at home,well i tried,i called the petstore she said it was probably the chlorine told me i could get medflix{not usre if that is what it was called}it is like a tea tree oil,told me to out in tank and it could bring him back,it was to late he was floating upside down and sinking to the bottom of the tank ,it was horrible he did hang in there for days,i did call back and ask if icould bring him there cause i could not dlush a breathing creature either ,they said ok.She said it would be like us breathing in chlorine,ifeel horrible how he must have been suffering..Thanks everyone.

shannon1233A
August 1st, 2005, 10:12 AM
I'm so sorry to hear of your loss. You were on pets.ca asking for help and you did all you could. :sorry: :angel:

StaceyB
August 1st, 2005, 10:18 AM
What is your routine when you feed. Do you remove the food if he hasn't eaten it shortly after feeding or do you leave it. If you leave it, is there any way that he is eating when you are not watching.

heidiho
August 1st, 2005, 01:47 PM
I am a clean freak,so yeah i only put in a few pieces of food and if they are not eaten i do take them out,i just feed in the morning and when i get home.I did get a new guy,he is all whit with a red tail,,

Daizy
August 19th, 2005, 01:42 PM
I know this is an 'old' thread and the problem is sorted out by now, but when my fish did that I would massage them a little and it would kind of bring them round. I guess I didn't leave my water long enough to sit before changing the fish.

Hope it all ended happily!

Daizy
August 19th, 2005, 01:45 PM
I'm sorry, just read ALL the posts properly - Sorry for your loss. If it happen's again with your new fish try massaging them, as well as water solutions that help keep the water free of chemicals etc, etc.

StaceyB
August 19th, 2005, 02:05 PM
When you touch a fish like that you remove their protective slimy coating. Their scales will be damaged and chemicals and other contaminants from your hands get deposited onto them.

heidiho
August 19th, 2005, 02:11 PM
Yeah he was very bad off ,i do not understand how you would massage a fish???I took him to petsmart,did not know what else to dso,he was trying to swim and would go upside down it was really bad..

Jackie467
August 19th, 2005, 04:09 PM
I'm sorry heidiho. for some reason this thread never came up in new posts for me until now. I'm sorry to hear about his passing. I know what you mean about flushing a breathing fish. My stepdad told me to just flush my sick fish, but there was no way I could do that to a living being.

heidiho
August 19th, 2005, 04:15 PM
No way could i do that,everyone told me to,he was still alive,that is sick,wasnt gonna do it..He hung in there for over a week,i bought that stuff i mentioned earlier,forgot the name,the girl said if he wasnt to far off,it could make him better,it did not..It was a horrible thing to watch........I did get another fighting fish he is white with a red tail,still not the same,i know it is a fish,but i swear my other fish,had a totally different way about him,this one seems very high strung,i guess he will adapt/