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Negative attitudes

Ford
July 18th, 2005, 06:05 PM
We here at Pets.ca have noticed over the last little while that our community has started to become rather volatile. In the interest of improving what we feel is a great community of pet-lovers, we have been working hard to form policies and guidelines which will help to maintain this board as a place where people will feel welcome, and hopefully continue to visit often.

Unfortunately, it has come to our attention that some members wish to not be part of the solution, but rather the problem. This causes us great sadness, especially in the case where it is members who have been around for a while, and who we view as valuable contributors to this board.

Ultimately, however, it is the board, and the majority of members who we are here for. While we wish to include everyone in what, we feel, is a great community, if you feel you must bring in your petty quarrels to the detriment of the board, and your goal of being here is not the betterment of the board, but the destruction of what is supposed to be a welcoming place for people of all different opinions and experiences, then we respectfully ask you to please leave. You will be missed, but at the same time, if we continue to see the profilation of garbage, poaching and otherwise snide-sniping that is continuing to make our jobs difficult, we will have no choice but to ban once-respected users.

We ask that the other users who have been around for a while to please continue to support us, and we will continue to try and make this a community where we can share ideas, debate topics, generally enjoy ourselves.

White Wolf
July 18th, 2005, 06:19 PM
In addition to what Ford has already said:

We are undergoing an overhaul here at pets.ca. A lot of new moderators have been chosen to help keep the board fun and positive.

The recent rule changes have some of you a bit worried about being banned. Please know that you do not get banned without warning. Only repeated offenders get banned, and we take the action very seriously.

Please trust that we are handling our responsibility with care. Also, please trust our motives and trust our reasoning for the actions taken recently.

We obviously cannot explain why certain members have been banned, as despite being no longer welcome here, they are still entitled to their privacy.

Offending posters are warned sufficiently. Therefore, please take comfort in knowing that we will contact you with a warning far ahead of taking action.

Also, as the new mods scan the site, posts and threads that break the rules will be immediately deleted, without explanation.

There is so much work that still has to be done. Thank you for staying loyal to pets.ca throughout this trying time. We will work through it soon, and have the website we have grown to love back to the way it should be- peaceful, positive and fun.

melanie
July 18th, 2005, 06:20 PM
hi there, i was jsut noticing we have had a big influx of mods lately and i cannot find much detail about who you are, is it possible for the mods to give us a little blurb or jsut be named so we know what is going on and who yalll are...

would be much appreciated
Mel

Daisy's Owner
July 18th, 2005, 06:51 PM
what is supposed to be a welcoming place for people of all different opinions and experiences

I truly hope that once all the rules and overhauling are done that pets.ca does become the "welcoming place for people of ALL different opinions" that you hope it to be.

melanie
July 18th, 2005, 07:06 PM
nice to see the update, but in the past 2yrs as a member here, in general i have found the board to be warm, positive, informative and welcoming, to those of all types... its occasionally things get heated, i mean last week was bad but that was a pretty rare occurance if you ask me... and does not happen often, it was jsut a bad example of how things can go, but usually were a caring bunch who are kind and try to be good ppl...

as a long time member i want to make it clear that most of us are lovely ppl, and the board is not a bad place and mostly nice, it is rare that last weeks events happen, so please all newbies dont see us older mems as a bunch of meanines or bullies, were not, the board jsut needs to be updated due to so many members, not because we have created an awful space here, jsut more ppl and more opinions....and dont assume last week was normal and be scared off, we wre all jsut having ab ad one i suppose, happens occassionally but definaltly not often...

i only write this as i dont want ppl to get the impression its because of some little click we have or whatever or that were jsut dire awful, its jsut big time growth and that needs a bit of work... or that the mods think were outa control, they dont, just trying to get the board with its thousands of members working well.... i just felt personally that that point needed to be cleared up, not trying to upset or anything and i dont wnat response, jsut explaining a bit for newbies as this could all be a bit confusing..., just clarity

thanks mods for the help, you have our support and hopefully we will come out the other side with a new spunk funky improved space....

Avalon
July 18th, 2005, 07:27 PM
Thank you for your good wishes and positive thoughts, very appreciated.
Whenever major changes come about, some uncertainty is natural amongst members. The changes were implemented as the site has grown and evolved, now become necessary. Admins and moderators feel strongly that these will be a real benefit to Pets.ca, and will serve to enhance all the positive aspects of the site.

A new team of moderators has been assembled to assist the long-standing mods who have dedicated themselves to keeping things in hand.Moderator identities remain anonymous, but members are certainly free to contact any of us through private message with any concerns.

nymph
July 19th, 2005, 11:38 AM
that the banned users are not here to defend themselves, what we are hearing now are simply one side of the story, correct?

I realize how hard it is to keep a board running with minimum financial assistance and a whole lot of passion, but the late flux of banning just seems to be a difference in opinion, to me at least.

"a welcoming place for people of all different opinions and experiences"

I just hope that this board stays true to its own words.

Tigger
July 19th, 2005, 11:55 AM
Differing opinions and experiences are always welcome and appreciated. Breaking the rules and ignoring warnings cannot be tolerated. The rules are there to make this board a cordial and friendly environment. With several thousand members, things cannot slide. I would hope that the members understand this and can bear with some of the necessary occurences and changes.

mona_b
July 19th, 2005, 11:59 AM
I second what you said Mel..... :)

Mods,old and new,I too think you are all doing a great job.Yes last week was pretty bad.But I must say this is not the norm on here.And I have been on here almost 2 years.And I myself haven't had any major probs on here.

Also,as for the banning,well first I really don't think that the Mods have to tell us their reason for doing it.There is always a reason for everything.

This site has been a pleasant one to be on.It's back to normal.And this is what I want.And I am sure I can speak for others..... :)

Once again,thank you Mods and Admin.You are ALL doing a great job..... :highfive:

beeboo
July 19th, 2005, 12:09 PM
<<Please keep guessing games regarding mod identity off the boards>>
OP edited by Avalon

nymph
July 19th, 2005, 12:33 PM
because as far as I could see, "self-promotion" and private messaging seems to be mutually exclusive.

I am actually more sad than angry, really...

Trinitie
July 19th, 2005, 12:48 PM
While I do think that all the moderators should introduce themselves, it will be done at their own speed, and in a way they see fit. You know who I am, as I, along with Dragonfly, have been here for a while.

There will be no public "guessing games" as to the identity of the mods, myself included. IF we choose to post in the forums under an alternate identity, we do so for a little enjoyment of the forums. After all, we can't be working 24 hours a day. I, for one, would not like my alternate persona, if I had one, to be known. I'm sure I'm speaking for the other mods on this one.

Ford
July 19th, 2005, 12:52 PM
To be honest, we are all sad anytime we see a long time member of the board leave. The rules have been set out, and only in the case of new members who have blatantly violated the rules is anyone banned out right. In all other cases, a warning is sent to any long time member who may be breaking the rules. One other thing I will say is that some members have not been banned, but lost certain priviledges for the time being. If they view that as being banned, so be it. At the end of the day, we do not wish to see anyone banned, but if someone can not follow the rules, especially after being warned, we have little choice.

The policy of the board is, generally, not to explain the reasons behind decisions in specific situations. Rest assured, there is more to most stories on both sides.

Luba
July 19th, 2005, 12:55 PM
I have to say I'm very happy with how things are going the past few days. The atmosphere has settled, and peace has come about the land.

IMHO it's none of our beezieswax to pry as to who a moderator is / isn't or why someone got banned. If a mod wants to share their identity then that is one thing but hey lets let them all breath!! Give em some space and let them do their thing.

Thanks goes to ya for the magic that you do...boop oop ee doo :p

Trinitie
July 19th, 2005, 01:00 PM
Nymph,
While I'm all for the promotion of loving our pets, the rules here clearly state that self-promoting is not acceptable. If a member is using our PM system for self-promotion, that is a violation of the rules, and is grounds for a mod, or the Admin, to step up and say so.

If I created a site, as compitition to Pets.ca, and came on here with the purpose of recruiting members for my own site, I would be in violation of the rules. Whether the recruitment happens in public forum, or in private message, is beside the point. The point is it is happening. The Admins are not acting in a way that is out of the ordinary.

As far as banned users not having a voice -
Users are warned before a banning takes place. There are often many discussions which the general public is not privy to. Banned users are asked to comply with the rules, before a banning takes place. We never ban a user simply because we feel like it. More often, than not, a banned user is given the benefit of the doubt and is given more chances than is deserved. A new user, who comes on this site only for self-promotion, or to spew "garbage" about another user, is banned immediately, as that was their sole intention for joining.

We have not, nor will we, explain the reasoning behind a banning. Just so you know that banning are not taken lightly.

I hope this clears things up for you a bit.

Rita
July 19th, 2005, 01:09 PM
I agree with Luba, it's not really our business WHO the mods are and it really doesn't matter in the whole scheme of things.
This board has been much more comfortable for the past few days and I for one am glad about that :thumbs up There were days last week (before changes) that I was very reluctant to read some posts .... I found some posts to be very confrontational.
As far as I can tell, this board is meant to be an informal, friendly, safe, comfortable place to share stories and ask questions .... without fear of being 'attacked'. Everybody is entitled to their own opinions/beliefs and there is no need for personal attacks.
Congratulations and thank you to admin, new mods and not so new mods for taking the time and asserting the effort into making this a pleasant place to come to again :thumbs up :highfive:

Luvmypit
July 19th, 2005, 01:55 PM
I totally missed what happened and being me and loving drama it really kills me not knowing. I assume I will never know but thats ok. That is why this site is so dang addictive.

Mods: New guys: Welcome aboard
Old and new mods: Your doing a great job and we appreciate your time

nymph
July 19th, 2005, 02:06 PM
Trinitie: While I respect your feelings and opinions, I still think that we are splitting hair here on technicality. While on the matter of forum rules, I found this in the sticky that clearly encourages the exchange of emails via private message:

" - Users (except those approved by the Admins and Mods) are not to post their email addresses and telephone numbers for any reason. This is designed to protect the user from spam and from people with less than honourable motives. Users that want to be contacted for one reason or another should state at the end of their post that they should be contacted by private message."

The rules are made by people, so it's only natural that these rules would be interpreted in different ways. While you may see asking for members emails in PM as "self promotion", I see that as merely an exchange of information between friends. There was nothing like "hey come to this site instead", just emails, and those being PMed were given choices to respond to or ignore such PM.

One last thing, people would come to wherever they like to come anyway, I frequent more than one boards myself, so I really believe that competition is a healthy way to ensure quality, and believe me when I say this, people are not stupid, the majority could often tell right from wrong. This board would not be where it is right now without the dedication of long-time members...

I understand that it's the mods' right to not explain any reasoning behind any banning, that's fine with me, I've never asked anyone to actually explain the reasoning anyway, to be honest, some things are better left unsaid. The latest slew of banning must have caused the admins and mods a great deal of stress already, so this is going to be my last post on this matter. I'm always terrible at saying farewells, so I'm just going to shut up now.

Dragonfly
July 19th, 2005, 02:13 PM
Well, let's just say, in the last week I have edited, locked and deleted more posts and threads then I have in the 9 months that I have been a moderator. In 9 months I had recieved about 50 pm's and now my total (not including the ones I had to delete because I ran up to my limit) is at 131.

As far as banning, if you got fired from a job would you expect your former boss to post a notice explaining to all who came exactly why you got fired? I think not. Can you be banned without notice? You bet, but usually there is a warning first. If you get a pm about something that you have done - don't do it again. If you do, then well, you may well get banned the next time.

Marko and David pay for this site that we all use for free. Their side of the story is the only one that matters. It is kind of like my house - "I pay the bills, I make the rules. If you don't like it - feel free to leave."

BMDLuver
July 19th, 2005, 02:14 PM
I'm always terrible at saying farewells, so I'm just going to shut up now.
My brain is really not working well today. Does this mean that you won't be coming back to post? If not, that's a pity. I don't see why one can't be a member of more than one board. Everyone's knowledge and input is invaluable and losing just one person is a pity if that's the case. :sad:

Ford
July 19th, 2005, 02:22 PM
The bottom line is that any user that has been banned was contacted before hand and asked to change thier behaviour. That did not happen. Regardless of splitting hairs or interpretation, the majority of users are banned because they choose to continue the behaviour that caused the reprimand in the first place. That is not open to interpretation, but rather black and white. If a user is requested to stop a certain behaviour, and it continues, then action has to be taken.

As has been said, there is certainly more to the story on both sides. While some individuals may wish to participate in the drama that has been going on both on the board and behind the scenes, we feel that it would not be conducive to the board, nor productive. By explaining individual choices, would only to be to continue the drama. It is not a matter of wanting to be heavy-handed, or deprive anyone the ability to "defend" themselves, but rather a belief that it is an issue that was addressed, and choices were made.

Normally, we would not debate our decisions, but with some of the recent changes and goings on, we've left this thread open for those who may have questions. But again, it has always been the policy of the board to not publicly debate policy decisions, and in the interest of fairness, we will continue that trend.

nymph
July 19th, 2005, 02:23 PM
I lied but I promise this is going to be my last post on this matter: I meant saying farewell to those departed, I'm still hopelessly addicted to this site.

BMDLuver
July 19th, 2005, 02:27 PM
Oh ok. See my brain doesn't work well today!

Rick C
July 19th, 2005, 02:43 PM
Well, let's just say, in the last week I have edited, locked and deleted more posts and threads then I have in the 9 months that I have been a moderator. In 9 months I had recieved about 50 pm's and now my total (not including the ones I had to delete because I ran up to my limit) is at 131.

As far as banning, if you got fired from a job would you expect your former boss to post a notice explaining to all who came exactly why you got fired? I think not. Can you be banned without notice? You bet, but usually there is a warning first. If you get a pm about something that you have done - don't do it again. If you do, then well, you may well get banned the next time.

Marko and David pay for this site that we all use for free. Their side of the story is the only one that matters. It is kind of like my house - "I pay the bills, I make the rules. If you don't like it - feel free to leave."

I'm a co-owner of one of the more popular hockey sites out there and I agree that's the bottom line - this is a place you can use or not use but the owner sets the rules and their traffic, their success, will depend on how open or close-minded they might be.

Some internet chat sites have virtually zero moderation and have degenerated into profanity-laced crapholes that only fringe degenerates would want to frequent.

Other sites have moderation so tight their butts squeak and they lose traffic that way as well.

Finding the middle ground to allow your site to flourish is the key.

At our hockey site, we've banned people who then complained about an infringement on their right to free speech . . . . as if that has anything to do with telling a jerk to find some other place to troll. Its a private site and the owners set the table. Love it or lose it.

At our hockey site, we have multiple moderators and a private, non-member, non-visible, board where moderators can gather to discuss privately issues coming up and to list actions they've taken so they can be discussed. The moderators are accountable to other moderators to prevent abuse of trust.

It all seems to work pretty well even though chaos is the normal state of affairs.

There's no perfect system. I'll miss those who are gone and sorry they've chosen to leave - and it was their choice - but experience tells me new people will show up.

And that's all I've got to say about that..

Rick C
www.goldentales.ca

happycats
July 19th, 2005, 02:51 PM
Please don't flame me for this......but......
If another site for petlovers opened up, I wouldn't consider it competition, I would think it would be considered beneficial to all animals!!
another place, for animals (people with animals) in need could get help, advise, and, possible save a life!!!

Isn't that all that really matters, that we all can make a difference in animals lives?

Rick C
July 19th, 2005, 02:56 PM
Please don't flame me for this......but......
If another site for petlovers opened up, I wouldn't consider it competition, I would think it would be considered beneficial to all animals!!
another place, for animals (people with animals) in need could get help, advise, and, possible save a life!!!

Isn't that all that really matters, that we all can make a difference in animals lives?

True . . . .

I frequent two Golden Retriever boards . . . . the second one opened because some posters apparently didn't like some of the people on the first one. But now they're all together again on two boards anyway so it was a short-lived escape!!!

Pretty funny. That's probably what will happen in this case.

By the way, I really don't have much of an idea of the undercurrents going on here . . . . stuff like that tends to fly right over my head. . . . . I'm a little too dense to pick sides. :angel: :clown:

Rick C
www.goldentales.ca

Jazz&Cricket
July 19th, 2005, 03:03 PM
I'm recently new to the board...I guess I haven't been monitoring the 'bad' threads. Anyway, if people make a choice to ignore the rules set up for this particular board...and have been contacted, and continue to make a choice to ignore the rules, THAT is their choice and the moderators are acting on that person's choice. (is that a bit convoluted??) I came to the board because I found a dog...and it's listed as a Canadian site...and I've stayed because by and large, people are kind and caring...and most seem to have a sense of humour. I don't respond to threads that get my 'back' up because I have better things to do. And I try not to read too many that will make me want to 'ban' the human race.
I also like the 'off-topic' forum...it's nice to know that we are a group of people with alot of other interests too! Bye for now :)

CyberKitten
July 19th, 2005, 03:10 PM
I did not even know anyone had been banned till I read a post and this thread - or that some former users has started a new site. I guess they did not think I'd make any contribution to their site, lol but then again, I am not much at gossiping. I do enjoy a good debate and I hope that continues. I found last week horrible - maybe it is because I do like the site and there are some fine people here.

I do have a question tho - wonder why those of us who frequent the site and have vast computer experience (and diplomatic abilities) were not invited to moderate. I can think of some wonderful people on this site with those qualifications. I am not sure I personally would have the time but as one who works for inclusion of everyone in everything that I do, I can understand the site overhall being the perogative of the owners. I do think that this is a coimmunity now however and it would have been respectful to have informed us that changes were coming and applications are now being recieved from people who come here. Now I do a significant amount of human resources (more than I'd like) and we sometimes opt not to interview internal candidates (this is for high level hospital or university positions) - not even courtesy interviews - and if that was the thought behind this, I do think while we may not have a right (without ownership) to know all the plans, current members in good standing - if I can put it that way - might have been considered for moderators. I hate to say this but it tells me you do not think we are good enough to be moderators. I am sure that is not the case but that is how it comes across and I want this to start off well.

Re: "A lot of new moderators have been chosen to help keep the board fun and positive. "I hope that also includes keeping it informative, diploamtic, understanding and caring!

Otherwise, this far the changes seem good. I do think ultimately, the success of the Board depends on the members. People will return if the experience is worthwhile and enjoyable at the same time.

Trinitie
July 19th, 2005, 03:20 PM
CK,
The powers that be work in strange ways. Nobody can say with any certainty why one member was asked to mod over another member. There's no way of knowing if the number of mods will stay as it is, or if that number will grow. Please don't think that your input is not wanted, or appreciated! It most certainly is!! We don't know what the future will hold, or who can or will become a mod, if any more are to be chosen. You are a breath of knowledge, and I, for one, value your opinion. (not to mention, I LOVE a good debate, which you are more than able to give!)

marko
July 19th, 2005, 05:22 PM
I'd like to say just a few things.

People are obviously free to join whatever board they like without consequence.

We HATE I repeat HATE to ban people.

We ESPECIALLY HATE to ban posters that have been here for a while.

The rules need to be respected because it's just too difficult to run, administer and moderate thousands of members.

This board is undergoing a transition in order to maintain its integrity for years to come. Anyone that has concerns about this change is free to PM me or email me at anytime at marko@pets.ca I will always try to respond as quickly as possible.

Lastly, I'm ever so grateful to our members and Mods. It is thanks to you that this site attracts many members. I suspect that our numbers will only grow because of the compassion and knowledge that we share so freely with everyone.

Dave (the other ADMIN) and I thank you all.

Marko
ADMIN

Joey.E.CockersMommy
July 19th, 2005, 05:27 PM
I know that all of you moderators are doing your best to work out a solution to all of the turmoil on the board lately. I am sad that some members are banned and have had priveleges taken away temporarily. I do hope that some of them will be allowed back at some point. I personally don't like to get involved in controversy and have noticed some threads have gotten pretty nasty and I am not sure why. It just seems like people are having it out with each other on a public forum.Most people including myself wouldn't be that confrontational in the real world. i like this forum and I frequent it the most out the four pet forums I belong too. The members on this on this one are definately the most passionate about their animals. Some of forums are so polite it gets kind of boring and nobody says anything about anything. It would be nice if we could reach a happy medium here, where we could respect each in our threads without getting so personal and having feelings hurt.

Schwinn
July 19th, 2005, 05:47 PM
Personally, I think if someone was asked not to do something, and continued, then it doesn't matter what the rule was. They could debate it, but to me, if I were to basically ignore a request to cease and desist, I don't think I'd expect to be around. Is there a way to see who was banned? Yes, I'm being nosy, but that's what I do! ;) I haven't seen too many users that were banned, but the past week or so has been a little nuts at work, and I don't get to use my computer at home any more since Gracie came along.

mafiaprincess
July 19th, 2005, 06:06 PM
Schwinn.. You need to empty your pm box.. it's full.

Dag Sabot
July 19th, 2005, 06:15 PM
I know that all of you moderators are doing your best to work out a solution to all of the turmoil on the board lately.
heh. Thats really interesting, I posted last week and i really wish i hadn't. I post regularily on many boards, as i have other interests besides dogs, and i have never experienced such mod hostility as i have here. -You're fine as long as you agree with a few favoured members, otherwise, you're "rude", asked to stop posting and threatened with banishment.
Im starting to relate to what life behind the iron curtain used to be like, its cute to see it emulated here. It makes me glad im Canadian, no offense.

..And no i dont need to be told that while we live in a "Democratic" society where we can express ourselves freely, this board belongs to: <insert a multinational subsiduary of company X who really just wants you to buy their pet food> and that one must obey their rules no matter how draconian or risk banishment. One site i used to frequent (closed now) actually bashed and banned people for infractions like spelling and grammar, but nothing like this.

LOL

Cheers.

heidiho
July 19th, 2005, 06:18 PM
Just curious did the mods change there name>>>>Where is Marko??Or did u change your name

melanie
July 19th, 2005, 07:35 PM
oh sorry guys, i did not mean i wanted to know your identities, thats not what meant by intro yourself, opps stuffed up communication,....

no i was jsut looking for you all, i found the list of your names. it was jsut so i know who was a mod, not actually who you are in real life or anything ,not prying i mean....duh duh duh :p

Dragonfly
July 19th, 2005, 08:07 PM
Marko and most of the Moderators have tried to give you a bit of an overview of what we, as a group, are trying to accomplish. Suffice it to say that, having posted this and given numerous references to new rules and where they can be found, our job as moderators is to uphold the rules.