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SO many rude people!

Angeleyes1437
July 7th, 2005, 01:17 PM
Today my boyfriend was looking through this forum and just turned me as said "wow, it seems like everyone on here is rude to each other- that is so strange!". In a way it's true. He belongs to many forums where people discuss things, joke around and just educate each other or debate nicely.

Between people trolling others, twisting posts, saying "thats not the advice I asked for" and God knows what else it becomes almost annoying to come on this forum. Thats not a very good reputation to have. I know speaking about animals can be a controversial and touchy topic for us all- but why do so many people have a problem being rational and nice? If someone gives you advice you don't like, just ignore it or state your points.

It's almost impossible for some people to get a word in edgewise once a group is formed against them... and frankly it chases people away! So many people I have spoken to recently say "I don't post much because everyone here twists posts, gets angry so quickly, are just looking for fights, etc".

I like a lot of people on this forum, yet sometimes I feel like it's too much of a hassle to deal with so many people being rude. I've never experienced something like this on a forum to the extent of this forum. I enjoy speaking to a lot of you, but I'm seriously considering not even coming back on here.

Does anyone feel this way?

badger
July 7th, 2005, 01:19 PM
I take it that's a yes?

Angeleyes1437
July 7th, 2005, 01:20 PM
I take it that's a yes?

From me???

DogueLover
July 7th, 2005, 01:25 PM
I think a lot of times compassion for the animals brings out the nasty in all of us.
Newbies seem to take a lot of it from long time members. This site is supposed to be a place to come for advice and a lot of times the newbies don`t know what they are getting into.
Have any of you ever done a search on the web for advice on pet pregnancy, breeding, breeders etc? Knowing that this site is very anti breeding I find it amazing how many times it is one of the first sites recommended for advice when doing a web search on breeding, breeders, and pet pregnancy questions.
I try to keep myself thinking how I would feel if it were me in the newbies shoes and a lot of times they leave the site with NO information that will help them and that puts the pet in a dangerous situation.

Maybe if we can just try to keep our compassion in check and remember that they found this site somehow ( most of the time from doing an internet search) and they are truly looking for answers that can help them.
Lets remember that if we chase them away their pet will more than likely still NOT go to a vet and that can lead to more serious issues.

Angeleyes1437
July 7th, 2005, 01:34 PM
DogueLover- I agree with you. I don't know what is going on with some people here (...some SERIOUS senior members too!) who seem like they are always looking for fights. It's actually funny in a way that adults will act so immaturely- but annoying at times... who wants to deal with people acting like that?

I do my best to keep my day happy and stress-free... the last thing I will allow is some troll putting me in a bad mood. :yuck:

Rottielover
July 7th, 2005, 01:35 PM
I just took it ! mind you not many people who are thinking about giving up a dog will, if any......I did what will be best for my beloved pet. And I am looking forward to continue working on her, should I say my BF will continue with her.

badger
July 7th, 2005, 01:42 PM
Right. I'm often amazed by how heated things get on this board - I occasionally get a little heated myself, when someone just isn't getting it, while their animal bleeds to death - but I think that's all part of the mix. Sticks and stones, outweighed by alot of good information and a second (or third or fourth) chance for animals that would otherwise have none. And that's what counts for me.

Angeleyes1437
July 7th, 2005, 01:46 PM
Right. I'm often amazed by how heated things get on this board - I occasionally get a little heated myself, when someone just isn't getting it, while their animal bleeds to death - but I think that's all part of the mix. Sticks and stones, counterbalanced by alot of good information and a second (or third or fourth) chance for animals that would otherwise have none.

You are right... there is a lot of good. However I see WAY too many people getting rude or crazy for no reason. It's a shame, ... we don't want to chase people away- and like I said, I have been considering leaving the forum as well... after approximately a month and 300 posts. I can TOTALLY understand getting rude with certain people- like BYB's who just don't get it, people who won't bring their animals to the vet and so forth... but over a simple topic like "Should I let my dog lick my face?" I wouldn't expect people to argue and be SO rude. It's just obnoxious.

Writing4Fun
July 7th, 2005, 02:22 PM
I find there are periods when it gets too nasty and everyone gets "told" by the mods or admins to play nice, maybe one poster takes it too far and gets "banned" (the admins hate doing that, btw, so please don't give them a reason to!). Then there's a lull where everyone is extra-polite, lots of happy smilies. :D I've found that it also depends on the current social climate as well. When BSL was first being introduced, there was a big flare-up in tempers. When someone posts about a controvercial(sp?) political/religious topic, you'll have emotions running high. And those tempers will carry onto seeminly innocuous topics - since two posters were arguing elsewhere, it seems they read more into each others' posts from that point onwards.

Yeah, I've backed off from the board when I thought it was getting to be too much to handle. For the most part, though, I think this is a great board and it's worth visiting. A lot of off-line friendships have blossomed because of this board. A lot of wonderful advice has been posted. Sure, if there's a troll, or if someone's pet is bleeding from both ends and they "were waiting to see if it got better" or "don't want to spend the money if they don't have to", you'll see people hit the roof. ;) All in all, I feel they're a great bunch of people - as animal lovers usually are. :grouphug:

Melinda
July 7th, 2005, 03:15 PM
I haven't been here all that long, but I find it is a very nasty place at times, people come for help and get told off, I've gotten a lot of good advice mind you, and have tried to give a bit of imput, sometimes I'm scared to say what I really think. If someone has to find a new home for their pet, there is a reason, no use telling them to keep it or how to keep it, how to sneak it into somewhere, if they've decided to find it a new home, they've come here for help in locating that home. But, thats just my feelings *L* Maybe I"m just over sensitive? I really love coming here and it is addictive *L* So here I'll stay

marko
July 7th, 2005, 03:22 PM
I like this poll! (I have edited a bit of the wording for clarity)

Personally I agree that many people are way too rude!

Please continue adding comments - and if I may suggest, please write your opinions on what you think the ADMINS should do about this.

Thanks

Marko
ADMIN

Angeleyes1437
July 7th, 2005, 03:31 PM
I will always push for someone to keep their pet- but if there is no way for a good reason I am an understanding person.

However, ... as for the Admins I really can't see how you can sensor everyone into being nice.... I just can't. I guess maybe if you keep track of the CRAZY posts or the REALLY RUDE posts you can see who has a habit of being this way and perhaps ask them to lighten up- it's embarassing for an ADMIN to HAVE to ask you to be mature and civil. Maybe that can help... or you can implement a TOS... something against trolling as well. Who knows, it's hard because there is freedom of speech, we can all be miserable all the time if we really want to.

Yet, I don't think when someone is down right rude and someone else sticks up for themselves or gets rude back that they should be punished... I don't think anyone should allow themselves to be treated poorly, and I for one will stick up for myself- but I won't stoop down to some of these idiotic fights, when I think it is at the point of no return with someone irrational I simply state that I will no longer read their posts... and I don't. Although I don't feel it should EVER get to this point.

People often misunderstand a post, or don't read the posts fully and then post something mean in an ignorant manner. That is the worst because they are completely uninformed and telling someone off for something they might have misunderstood.

It's a shame that such a wonderful forum can really get ruined by some bad apples.

SnowDancer
July 7th, 2005, 03:53 PM
Personally I find this board quite moderate. I used to participate in a board that was breed specific. OH BOY! I like the mix of pets as so many illnesses are not breed specific and many of us have had different breeds so often can pinpoint a problem or be aware of a symptom that would seem minor when it is in fact indicative of a major event about to happen. Sure the board can get a bit heated but at least you are allowed to "suggest" that your own breed of dog can have a tendency to be aggressive without getting creamed - particularly by people whose daily posts deal with the aggressive aspects of the breed. So I like this board. Do get upset though when a dog or other pet is obviously seriously ill yet someone takes time to open an account. Not me - vet first - and the report back.

kandy
July 7th, 2005, 04:04 PM
I voted that I haven't had any problems because personally I don't feel that I've ever been jumped on or had anyone be rude to me. But I have to say that I tend to stay away from the threads that look like they can get nasty. I do have a pretty thick skin, so maybe I have been insulted and just don't realize it! :)

Anyway, I have noticed that any topic related to breeding will get everyone worked up and lately there seems to be quite a large number of threads that have been pushing really touchy subjects. I have to wonder if that's why people have been getting irate so fast - it seems like there are so many threads where people won't take responsibility for their own actions or just want everyone else to validate their choices.

After all, this is a forum dedicated to the loving and humane treatment of animals and anyone who asks a question that implies less than total devotion to your animal will likely get smacked. What some people don't seem to realize is that everyone has different views on what 'total devotion' should entail.

I think that overall this site is really great and I agree that the moderators would have a really tough time trying to censor every thread. The only thing I could suggest is maybe to search for all capitol letters in a thread which normally indicates someone is yelling (at least that's how I read all caps). In my mind, you shouldn't post a thread that contains information you wouldn't discuss with a stranger - I was always taught that you should never discuss religion, politics or money unless you want to provoke an argument. I try to follow that advice. :)

Kismutt
July 7th, 2005, 04:05 PM
IMO this board is nasty most of the time. I see newcomers being bashed to the point they just leave. It is too bad, because the new people could learn some "better" ways, but instead they are attacked by senior members.

There are ways of telling people in a more gentle way with whatever it is you think is not right. Examples: "free to good homes", "breeding", "puppymills" etc.

Melinda
July 7th, 2005, 04:10 PM
*raises my hand* ummm what is "trolling"? I've seen it mentioned often in here and have no idea what it is...all I can think of is either fishing from a slow moving boat (I love that type of trolling) or those little naked guys with the big hair we collected in the 70's *L*

Angeleyes1437
July 7th, 2005, 04:15 PM
*raises my hand* ummm what is "trolling"? I've seen it mentioned often in here and have no idea what it is...all I can think of is either fishing from a slow moving boat (I love that type of trolling) or those little naked guys with the big hair we collected in the 70's *L*

People who troll are people who just want to fight or get everyone mad. For instance it's like someone going into the BSL thread and saying "ALL PIT BULL BREEDS ROTTIES AND DOBERMANS SHOULD DIE!!!" because we would all flip out in anger. Sometimes people even create a new name to troll and then use their regular name to make good points and look good to others. It's quite insane! lol. Trolling basically is instigating...that's pretty much the best explanation for it IMO.

CyberKitten
July 7th, 2005, 04:21 PM
Do you mean on this Board specifically? The question is not clear (and written like a new university student with "like" in it - I'd have send it back is domeone sent that in to me, not that I see too much undergrad work.

And it's not mutually exclusive or exhaustive so none of the replies applies to how I feel.

Thus, I did not respond to it.

And please don't take my unsoliticted advice as rude - You may not have much experience in questionnnaire design and are doing the best you can and in that event, I guess the topic does arise from time to time. I myself am abyssal at keyboarding and do not mind people offering me advice - it's not my forte and I have no plans to study it but if anyone wants to crtique it, it does not bother me.

I can't honestly agree that people here are rude. Every now and then someone will say something that is hurtful or comes across as somewhat on the mean side but I figure maybe they've had a bad day - which we are all entitled to or they just are not the sort of person I do not want to know. Given that it is a public Board and one has the option to join or not to join, I can decide whether I want to respnd to that person. Sometimes, if someone makes a comment I deem politically incorrect or hurtful, I will tell them how I fell. Most of the time, they are gracious about it. If they are not, they says more about them yet again.

I do not like rude people (can barely abide them the truth be known) and if I thought this was a chracteristic that delinated this site, I would not frequent the place. But it is not something I experience often here. We do have strong opinions on this site but we are all very vocal and dedicated lobbyists on behalf of our pets. That is bound to elicit very volitile debate on occasion and I can see where someone might consider that difficult. But I would not term those discussions rude.

Angeleyes1437
July 7th, 2005, 04:25 PM
Do you mean on this Board specifically? The question is not clear (and written like a new university student with "like" in it - I'd have send it back is domeone sent that in to me, not that I see too much undergrad work.

And it's not mutually exclusive or exhaustive so none of the replies applies to how I feel.

Thus, I did not respond to it.

And please don't take my unsoliticted advice as rude - You may not have much experience in questionnnaire design and are doing the best you can and in that event, I guess the topic does arise from time to time. I myself am abyssal at keyboarding and do not mind people offering me advice - it's not my forte and I have no plans to study it but if anyone wants to crtique it, it does not bother me.

I can't honestly agree that people here are rude. Every now and then someone will say something that is hurtful or comes across as somewhat on the mean side but I figure maybe they've had a bad day - which we are all entitled to or they just are not the sort of person I do not want to know. Given that it is a public Board and one has the option to join or not to join, I can decide whether I want to respnd to that person. Sometimes, if someone makes a comment I deem politically incorrect or hurtful, I will tell them how I fell. Most of the time, they are gracious about it. If they are not, they says more about them yet again.

I do not like rude people (can barely abide them the truth be known) and if I thought this was a chracteristic that delinated this site, I would not frequent the place. But it is not something I experience often here. We do have strong opinions on this site but we are all very vocal and dedicated lobbyists on behalf of our pets. That is bound to elicit very volitile debate on occasion and I can see where someone might consider that difficult. But I would not term those discussions rude.

Sorry if I used "like" too much for you to understand, yet nobody else had a problem. I tend to do that when I speak to friends... however you quickly reminded that I am not speaking to friends. Thank you.

Beaglemom
July 7th, 2005, 04:26 PM
I agree that at times things can get a bit heated/nasty. Personally, I can only remember one time that I've felt attacked.

I think that this is a very informative site. There are many knowledgeable people here who are willing to take time out of their busy days to offer their advise. It can be very upsetting when you offer advise and then the OP just completely ignores it or gets mad at you because it isn't what they wanted to hear. It's also very frustrating when someone posts about a very obviously distressed animal and instead of rushing their pet to an emergency vet, they take the time to post here and wait for peoples' advise.

I think the mods have been doing a great job at trying to keep everything civil. I'm not sure what else they can do except give everyone a warning that certain things are just not tolerated and may be getting out of line. I believe there already is a sticky about the rules including the name calling.

jessi76
July 7th, 2005, 04:39 PM
Do you mean on this Board specifically? The question is not clear (and written like a new university student with "like" in it - I'd have send it back is domeone sent that in to me, not that I see too much undergrad work.

sorry if this is "rude", but that's kinda funny. don't pick on someone's writing style and then type things LIKE "is domeone".

JDG
July 7th, 2005, 04:40 PM
yes. People are too rude to each other, and for really the first time today- I was rude to someone on the forum.

The truth of the matter is the people who often come across as rude, or brash or short with people are the people who day after day, week after week, month after month have to post the same darn thing over and over and over again.

I think a sticky about the general views of the site, such as Spay and Neuter, no declawing, no puppy Mills /BYB, no BSL etc should be available on every board all the time

That way people logging onto the forum can get a feel for the jive of the place, and to *hopefully* reduce the number of times people have to give the speel about some of the above topics.

Another thing that we could do is to make those general views a *must read* portion of the registration to sign up for the site.


I must be honest, though, there are some certain people who are consistanly rude that I love!! I search out their posts for giggles . . . . i know thats kinda mean of me . . .. :sorry:

Melinda
July 7th, 2005, 04:44 PM
People who troll are people who just want to fight or get everyone mad. For instance it's like someone going into the BSL thread and saying "ALL PIT BULL BREEDS ROTTIES AND DOBERMANS SHOULD DIE!!!" because we would all flip out in anger. Sometimes people even create a new name to troll and then use their regular name to make good points and look good to others. It's quite insane! lol. Trolling basically is instigating...that's pretty much the best explanation for it IMO.


Thank you Angeleyes, I guess I can stop looking for the little naked creatures now *L*, I think the only breed that should be destroyed is trolls *L* , ok, maybe we can just muzzle them?

Angeleyes1437
July 7th, 2005, 04:47 PM
sorry if this is "rude", but that's kinda funny. don't pick on someone's writing style and then type things LIKE "is domeone".

I was going to point that out but didn't want to start a big war... thanks for doing it for me! You're the best! :) lol.

Angeleyes1437
July 7th, 2005, 04:49 PM
Thank you Angeleyes, I guess I can stop looking for the little naked creatures now *L*, I think the only breed that should be destroyed is trolls *L* , ok, maybe we can just muzzle them?

Yes lets muzzle trolls... I've already seen one in this thread! :rolleyes:

lol
:crazy:

CyberKitten
July 7th, 2005, 04:56 PM
Re: Sorry if I used "like" too much for you to understand, yet nobody else had a problem. I tend to do that when I speak to friends... however you quickly reminded that I am not speaking to friends. Thank you.

Now, see. that comment was nasty. I was neither rude nor nasty, simply pointing out something - as people do all the time to me. I don't mind - I'd better get used to it in my work, lol - and since I teach med students, it is an occupational hazard to want to help by showing others. You took what I said the wrong way and decided to hurt my feelings. That is what I call rude, nasty and probably even immature. Maybe that last sentence could be construed as rude but I do not understand why you had to be so rude to me. I thought I was being truly helpful (I often help design surveys and do not mind being asked for assistance. Clearly, you do not like unasked for advice even if it was meant in a kind way.) Can I ask why you had to respond so nastily? I did nothing to deserve that response and you surely know that. Why would you act that way when you are complaining about rudeness. Up till now, I have not encountered too much rudeness but you fit the bill. And I can hardly be your friend - I do not know you. I do have many friends here but I have met and come to know them in the many months I have been here. It takes time to build a relationship and you do not do it slamming people unecessarily.

I just thought you could have included a line for everyone and you excluded what I would have responded. That is all I was trying to say. You need to take into account every possible answer if you design that kind of question. It's not rocket science. Gawd!

Writing4Fun
July 7th, 2005, 05:07 PM
Sorry, CK, but I have to side with Angeleyes on this one (even though you know I still love ya :D ). Your post did come across a little demeaning - as if you were inferring she's uneducated or inferior. A simple "Hey, Angel, you need a "none of the above" in your list of choices" would have sufficed. ;)

Sneaky2006
July 7th, 2005, 05:16 PM
Do you mean on this Board specifically? The question is not clear (and written like a new university student with "like" in it - I'd have send it back is domeone sent that in to me, not that I see too much undergrad work.

And it's not mutually exclusive or exhaustive so none of the replies applies to how I feel.

Thus, I did not respond to it.Hmmm, it seems to me that you only had to say the "like" part because it was yet another opportunity to throw in a line about what you do for a living. Clearly, you do not like unasked for advice even if it was meant in a kind way.Saying she used the word like, that she's writing like a new student, and that you would've sent her work back because of it? How is that kind?
I can't believe you said that on a thread about people being RUDE?!

I didn't vote, because it won't matter. The people who really need their butts kicked to the curb never will be (I don't mean CK). That's life. :thumbs up

Prin
July 7th, 2005, 05:16 PM
CK-- It's absolutely impossible to get EVERYBODY's possible answer in a poll. It's a basic poll and if the answer you like is not there, don't vote. Simple as that. I thought it was quite ironic how you started thrashing Angeleyes1437 in a poll that was exactly about that. It was a condescending post and had it been my thread, I would have reacted the same way. Why should she have to be so formal? Is this Forum Boot-Camp? I thought this was a hobby? Something to do for fun?

As for getting thrashed and being spoken to rudely, I would have to say once in a while it happens, but it's mostly in the writing. Like Cactus Flower says, it's text in a page. You read it with the tone that is in your head, not the tone from the text-- there is none there. It's like poetry, everyone reads it with a different perspective. I don't take offense when some one grills into me because usually it sorts itself out nicely.

I took out my age in my profile in part because people do read the responses and then right away jump to the age. Once they figure out you're under 30, they get condescending. I have seen it happen a lot in the past few weeks. You may be older, but that doesn't mean we haven't lived. There are 60 year olds buying from pet stores and 14 year olds who know better. Age is a number and my god, it's important to the elders. Please try not to look at the person's age and respond according to what year you see. I hate that.

Schwinn
July 7th, 2005, 05:30 PM
I think that debate and yes, sometimes arguements, can be good and healthy. But I do think that there are those on this board who sometimes forget that not everyone has the same level of knowledge. We are sometimes too quick to jump to conclusions when someone asks a question. I think we need to take a step back once in a while and remember that not everyone has all the information, and that when someone says something that goes against the general grain of the board, we need to take a deep breath and find out why the person is saying what they are saying before we chase them off. I think this may be one reason why we see so many members listed, yet it seems to be the same small group constantly posting.

chico2
July 7th, 2005, 05:42 PM
Personally I do not take anything to heart,I am however passionately against declawing cats and I know I have been part of some heated debates on the subject,but that is what debates are about after all..
Also there often are people coming here for help with a sick animal,thinking we can come up with a magic potion as a cureall,when the only answer is to see a vet...and there are not many ways to word it.
It can often get emotional,I've cried buckets over some poor sick animal and it's owner and the finality of having this animal PTS.
Animals and their care IS a very emotional issue,at least for me,but I try hard to understand and be helpful..if someone gets angry with any answers,because they did not read what they wanted to see and do not come back,there is not an awful lot we can do about that.
I'd like to think we all have one common interest and that is for the good of the animal,not whether we hurt a neglectful owners feelings.

Schwinn
July 7th, 2005, 05:44 PM
People who troll are people who just want to fight or get everyone mad. For instance it's like someone going into the BSL thread and saying "ALL PIT BULL BREEDS ROTTIES AND DOBERMANS SHOULD DIE!!!" because we would all flip out in anger. Sometimes people even create a new name to troll and then use their regular name to make good points and look good to others. It's quite insane! lol. Trolling basically is instigating...that's pretty much the best explanation for it IMO.

You forgot that sometimes they live under a bridge...and eat billy goats.

Prin
July 7th, 2005, 05:49 PM
I think this may be one reason why we see so many members listed, yet it seems to be the same small group constantly posting. I know already! I'm trying to cut down on my posts. :D In case anybody is wondering: no, you don't get a prize for hitting 3,000 posts. :D

Writing4Fun
July 7th, 2005, 05:53 PM
In case anybody is wondering: no, you don't get a prize for hitting 3,000 posts. :D
Do you at least get an e-card?? :p

Schwinn
July 7th, 2005, 05:55 PM
Like Cactus Flower says, it's text in a page. You read it with the tone that is in your head, not the tone from the text-- there is none there.


I often read it as though it was Scooby Doo...or a pirate. YARRRR!

Writing4Fun
July 7th, 2005, 05:59 PM
I often read it as though it was Scooby Doo...or a pirate. YARRRR!
Schwinn, yer killin' me! :crazy:

Prin
July 7th, 2005, 05:59 PM
Do you at least get an e-card?? :p
Nope no card. Nothing from the shop either... Nothing at all... :sad:

Roxy's_MA
July 7th, 2005, 06:06 PM
I find people can sometimes be kind of rude on this board as well. I guess you take the good with the bad, because I really enjoy this board and have learned so much already. Also sometimes it is not what is being said, but the tone that is used to get the message across.

Like the saying goes - "you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinager"

Roxy's_MA
July 7th, 2005, 06:12 PM
CK-- . Like Cactus Flower says, it's text in a page. You read it with the tone that is in your head, not the tone from the text-- there is none there.

I disagree I think that all writing has the author tone. How it is interpreted is up to the reader.

CyberKitten
July 7th, 2005, 06:15 PM
Well now I AM upset!! I was not condenscending and I am sorry if anyone took it that way. I was trying to helpful. I hope you are all happy now - I am in tears literally, over a *&^% web site. I meant well. Why am I now being picked on. Is it so bad to want to help? I do not see how it comes across as "I know it all." It was not at all meant that way - maybe it is the culture I live in, I don't know. We say those kinds of things to one another and no one questions it or feels badly. And I feel like I work in the best place on earth. They are wonderful people and we'd never hurt anyone. Life is far too short for that!!

I can't believe you would all think I am condescending. It is the last thing in the world I'd ever want to sound like and did not have that in mind when I responded. It may not help that I was going over some poorly done research methods (that I'd been asked help ameliorate) when I responded to this and so that sort of thing was on my mind. But I often help my students with resumes and that sort of thing and they welcome my input. Maybe I just assumed others would as well. I guess I was wrong!!

I have had a very bad day and have not heard yet from my friends in London and now you guys are telling me I am a terrible person because I wanted to help someone with her survey. People critique me here all the time - my photos are horrible, my grammar, my this, my that. Not once have I ever told anyone it upset me, even when it did because I stopped ana thought "well maybe they have a point". It seems to me if someone takes the time to offer you a suggestion, then you listen to them. You can take it or leave it but you do not have to jump down their throat. You do not have to be mean o them, EVER!

I thought you guys knew me. You know or should know- that I am not a condesending **** which is what this person seems to suggest I am. I only try to help people. I'd never hurt anyone's feelings. I do admit to being opinionated about animal rights and welfare and have probably made a pointed remark or two to a backyard breeder but even then I attempt to be diplomatic.

I do not know what else to say - It may be awile before I post here again though. This episide has greatly upset me!! Is this what I get for all the time I took to help people and share my time and theirs and try to find solutions to problems? Maybe I am being over emotional here but I really think you have no cause to all jump down my throat. I feel like the kid in class (and yes I was a nerd in school, albiet one who liked to party, lol) who only tries to help others and is then beat up by all the meanies (which is not to suggest you are all meanies before you take that out of context.) It is an allusion to how I feel. VERY UPSET AND DISAPOINTED.

I honestly thought people knew me here. I felt I could safelty make comments and not worry. (Not something easily said in any online contxt) Now, I will never feel secure in the knowlededge than I can post comments without being trashed on, feel vulnerable and taken out of context again. Yes, I take things VERY seriously - always have, always will. It is who I am. Yes, I sometimes say thing too academically without thinking but that's who I am - is that so bad? I know I am far from perfect but I would never ever knowingly hurt anyone. I myself have been hurt too much in my life to ever do that to anyone else. I am known in my workplace as the most diplmatic of souls and so I am at a loss to understand why you all have now jumped on me as if I was a mass murderer. (It is how you have made me feel!).

It especially hurts when I felt I was explaining why I thought this was NOT a nasty site. Sure, nasty comments are made from time to time by the occasional poster but I do not think it is endemic to the site.

I have had a bad day and now it is just gone to hell! (and sorry to sound so upset but that's how I feel. Often this site perks me up after the loss of a patient or a worry or two but today, it has just made me feel horrible. All for WAHT? For trying to be helpful? I still do not see what is wrong with that?)

CyberKitten
July 7th, 2005, 06:20 PM
Re: You read it with the tone that is in your head, not the tone from the text-- there is none there.

I must be losing it - I have no idea what you mean. See, I am not that smart, lol

Prin
July 7th, 2005, 06:24 PM
LOL It's like Shakespeare. A 9th grader reading it aloud will be much different than a person reciting it in a play. Different tone, different meaning, different understanding.

Roxy's_MA
July 7th, 2005, 06:43 PM
LOL It's like Shakespeare. A 9th grader reading it aloud will be much different than a person reciting it in a play. Different tone, different meaning, different understanding.

This is true, I still believe that when someone writes something they have a tone they intend for the reader. Whether the reader gets the tone or not is how the interpret it.

Dictionary definition of Tone - Manner of expression in speech or writing

Angeleyes1437
July 7th, 2005, 07:04 PM
Re: Sorry if I used "like" too much for you to understand, yet nobody else had a problem. I tend to do that when I speak to friends... however you quickly reminded that I am not speaking to friends. Thank you.

Now, see. that comment was nasty. I was neither rude nor nasty, simply pointing out something - as people do all the time to me. I don't mind - I'd better get used to it in my work, lol - and since I teach med students, it is an occupational hazard to want to help by showing others. You took what I said the wrong way and decided to hurt my feelings. That is what I call rude, nasty and probably even immature. Maybe that last sentence could be construed as rude but I do not understand why you had to be so rude to me. I thought I was being truly helpful (I often help design surveys and do not mind being asked for assistance. Clearly, you do not like unasked for advice even if it was meant in a kind way.) Can I ask why you had to respond so nastily? I did nothing to deserve that response and you surely know that. Why would you act that way when you are complaining about rudeness. Up till now, I have not encountered too much rudeness but you fit the bill. And I can hardly be your friend - I do not know you. I do have many friends here but I have met and come to know them in the many months I have been here. It takes time to build a relationship and you do not do it slamming people unecessarily.

I just thought you could have included a line for everyone and you excluded what I would have responded. That is all I was trying to say. You need to take into account every possible answer if you design that kind of question. It's not rocket science. Gawd!

Probably because I worked my butt of to get 6 years of college done in 4 and graduate with a 4.0... I don't need someone calling me an undergrad (as if that's a bad thing) to be nasty. You may teach med students but that doesn't impress me, especially if you can't even give "advice" in a friendly manner! Additionally, I didn't know that we had to type MLA style on here. Thanks for letting me know! :rolleyes:

Sorry if your answer wasn't there but I think the closest one for you would have obviously been the second choice... next time I'll add other... oh mighty one. :D

Prin
July 7th, 2005, 07:06 PM
I don't know if this is doctorism or something bad, but all the doctors I know can't write legibly to save their lives. Just funny. They spend years and years in school and never learn to write. It's a lost art.

Angeleyes1437
July 7th, 2005, 07:11 PM
Well now I AM upset!! I was not condenscending and I am sorry if anyone took it that way. I was trying to helpful. I hope you are all happy now - I am in tears literally, over a *&^% web site. I meant well. Why am I now being picked on. Is it so bad to want to help? I do not see how it comes across as "I know it all." It was not at all meant that way - maybe it is the culture I live in, I don't know. We say those kinds of things to one another and no one questions it or feels badly. And I feel like I work in the best place on earth. They are wonderful people and we'd never hurt anyone. Life is far too short for that!!

I can't believe you would all think I am condescending. It is the last thing in the world I'd ever want to sound like and did not have that in mind when I responded. It may not help that I was going over some poorly done research methods (that I'd been asked help ameliorate) when I responded to this and so that sort of thing was on my mind. But I often help my students with resumes and that sort of thing and they welcome my input. Maybe I just assumed others would as well. I guess I was wrong!!

I have had a very bad day and have not heard yet from my friends in London and now you guys are telling me I am a terrible person because I wanted to help someone with her survey. People critique me here all the time - my photos are horrible, my grammar, my this, my that. Not once have I ever told anyone it upset me, even when it did because I stopped ana thought "well maybe they have a point". It seems to me if someone takes the time to offer you a suggestion, then you listen to them. You can take it or leave it but you do not have to jump down their throat. You do not have to be mean o them, EVER!

I thought you guys knew me. You know or should know- that I am not a condesending **** which is what this person seems to suggest I am. I only try to help people. I'd never hurt anyone's feelings. I do admit to being opinionated about animal rights and welfare and have probably made a pointed remark or two to a backyard breeder but even then I attempt to be diplomatic.

I do not know what else to say - It may be awile before I post here again though. This episide has greatly upset me!! Is this what I get for all the time I took to help people and share my time and theirs and try to find solutions to problems? Maybe I am being over emotional here but I really think you have no cause to all jump down my throat. I feel like the kid in class (and yes I was a nerd in school, albiet one who liked to party, lol) who only tries to help others and is then beat up by all the meanies (which is not to suggest you are all meanies before you take that out of context.) It is an allusion to how I feel. VERY UPSET AND DISAPOINTED.

I honestly thought people knew me here. I felt I could safelty make comments and not worry. (Not something easily said in any online contxt) Now, I will never feel secure in the knowlededge than I can post comments without being trashed on, feel vulnerable and taken out of context again. Yes, I take things VERY seriously - always have, always will. It is who I am. Yes, I sometimes say thing too academically without thinking but that's who I am - is that so bad? I know I am far from perfect but I would never ever knowingly hurt anyone. I myself have been hurt too much in my life to ever do that to anyone else. I am known in my workplace as the most diplmatic of souls and so I am at a loss to understand why you all have now jumped on me as if I was a mass murderer. (It is how you have made me feel!).

It especially hurts when I felt I was explaining why I thought this was NOT a nasty site. Sure, nasty comments are made from time to time by the occasional poster but I do not think it is endemic to the site.

I have had a bad day and now it is just gone to hell! (and sorry to sound so upset but that's how I feel. Often this site perks me up after the loss of a patient or a worry or two but today, it has just made me feel horrible. All for WAHT? For trying to be helpful? I still do not see what is wrong with that?)


I didn't say anything to try and make you look bad... in all honesty I feel bad for you if you had a bad day. However, you WERE mean... I'm sorry- you were being arrogant, or at least that's how your post came across. However, I apologize if I was rude back but you seemed blatently demeaning. I've never had a problem with you before, I actually was shocked at first because I usually think you are very nice.

Don't not come back over a silly debate... thats just :crazy:

Angeleyes1437
July 7th, 2005, 07:12 PM
I don't know if this is doctorism or something bad, but all the doctors I know can't write legibly to save their lives. Just funny. They spend years and years in school and never learn to write. It's a lost art.

That's true... lol, but then again you should see my handwriting!!!

Writing4Fun
July 7th, 2005, 07:12 PM
I don't know if this is doctorism or something bad, but all the doctors I know can't write legibly to save their lives.
Funny you should mention that. My family physician has such bad handwriting that other doctors and pharmacists complain to me that they can't read his notes! :p They actually have to ask me what he's talking about ... ummmm ... :rolleyes:

glasslass
July 7th, 2005, 07:19 PM
I honestly thought people knew me here. I felt I could safelty make comments and not worry.

That's just the thing. Most senior members on this forum have formed opinions of other members based on the hundreds, if not thousands, of posts on various threads. We're not judging by just a few posts, but on the content of all of them. We do know you and know where your heart is and it's not the senior members who have jumped all over you. We do remember all the times you've shared helpful, expert information and advice. I don't think it's quite fair for members who have been here for only a brief time to label the rest of us as mean and rude. The difference on this forum is that while we are trying to get our advice and points across, there is often a third party that is suffering - the pet. That is why many of us get emotional and upset. I think most of us have just been reading this post and not really responding, until we see CyberKitten getting trounced on. Then I really need to speak up and say get to know someone before pronouncing judgement on them. CyberKitten doesn't deserve it.

Angeleyes1437
July 7th, 2005, 07:23 PM
That's just the thing. Most senior members on this forum have formed opinions of other members based on the hundreds, if not thousands, of posts on various threads. We're not judging by just a few posts, but on the content of all of them. We do know you and know where your heart is and it's not the senior members who have jumped all over you. We do remember all the times you've shared helpful, expert information and advice. I don't think it's quite fair for members who have been here for only a brief time to label the rest of us as mean and rude. The difference on this forum is that while we are trying to get our advice and points across, there is often a third party that is suffering - the pet. That is why many of us get emotional and upset. I think most of us have just been reading this post and not really responding, until we see CyberKitten getting trounced on. Then I really need to speak up and say get to know someone before pronouncing judgement on them. CyberKitten doesn't deserve it.

I don't think anyone was trouncing on Cyberkitten... I just think everyone noticed that the post was very rude and demeaning. That's all... I never WANT to fight and I never WANT someone to post being rude to me... especially in THIS thread of all threads!

Prin
July 7th, 2005, 07:27 PM
I know that CK means well. However, if a post is offensive to anybody, they have the right to express that, regardless of how long they've been posting here.

dmc123
July 7th, 2005, 07:43 PM
Very interesting post, I voted "Scared to post".

I joined last May or June and rarely does a day go by that I don't visit this site. But I rarely, probably never have posted to anything other than pictures I liked, or sympathy posts, etc. I don't have a lot to share on most posts, advice, medical, etc. You can see that if you check what I have posted to.

But, I have seen more than I want to at times, some "appear" a bit harsh, and those make me a little shy to post a dumb question, so I don't.

How to fix it? Not sure anyone can, this is a public site. We all need to realize that and realize we all have different ideas and different ways of "talking"/writing here.

Just like emails, it can get confusing....in what tone did the writer type that? I know I have responded to an email only to hear back that I must have misunderstood the writer's "tone".

Bottom line, this still is a great site. The mods have enough on their hands to keep out the really bad stuff (sorry, I don't want their job) to worry about me or anyone misunderstanding an answer to my post. I say congrats to the mods for the jobs they do.

Members, keep up the good stuff and good advice that is offered on here, there are many caring folks that frequently post on this site.

Just my two cents....
Diane

Cactus Flower
July 7th, 2005, 07:49 PM
Cyberkitten, I'm not sure how you ended up being the victim here. It was YOU who was rude to AngelEyes. A simple apology would have been sufficient. People don't come here to have their posts graded or put down, and that's the way your post came across (not for the first time, I might add). It was plain rude.
I am known in my workplace as the most diplmatic of souls and so I am at a loss to understand why you all have now jumped on me as if I was a mass murderer
This has nothing to do with your alleged profession, and nobody jumped on you as if you were a "mass murderer". Gimme a break.

Angeleyes1437
July 7th, 2005, 07:56 PM
Cyberkitten, I'm not sure how you ended up being the victim here. It was YOU who was rude to AngelEyes. A simple apology would have been sufficient. People don't come here to have their posts graded or put down, and that's the way your post came across (not for the first time, I might add). It was plain rude.

This has nothing to do with your alleged profession, and nobody jumped on you as if you were a "mass murderer". Gimme a break. Next time, you might just want to wait until somebody asks for advice on their spelling/grammar before giving it.

TY. I would also like to state that I was at work typing fast... but I wanted to put the post up because I was curious and I didn't want to forget. I know it wasn't the most thought out post with perfect grammar (which believe it or not I am usually very good at). Yet, I didn't expect to be judged on that. I do tend to post on here like I am writing an email to a friend. I wasn't being rude or arrogant in any way... so I was offended to see that post by CK.

I didn't want to get into an arguement- but I wasn't going to be treated like poop (lol) and ignore it... sorry... that's just not me.

Angeleyes1437
July 7th, 2005, 08:02 PM
Very interesting post, I voted "Scared to post".

I joined last May or June and rarely does a day go by that I don't visit this site. But I rarely, probably never have posted to anything other than pictures I liked, or sympathy posts, etc. I don't have a lot to share on most posts, advice, medical, etc. You can see that if you check what I have posted to.

But, I have seen more than I want to at times, some "appear" a bit harsh, and those make me a little shy to post a dumb question, so I don't.

How to fix it? Not sure anyone can, this is a public site. We all need to realize that and realize we all have different ideas and different ways of "talking"/writing here.

You are not the first person I've spoken to regarding this matter. This is why I decided to start a thread about it! :angel:

Prin
July 7th, 2005, 08:03 PM
It's a good poll. A good idea for a poll. Now can we get back to it? Let's stay away from personal attacks and rudeness so we can talk about the effect of personal attacks and rudeness... ;)

Writing4Fun
July 7th, 2005, 08:03 PM
I didn't want to get into an arguement- but I wasn't going to be treated like poop (lol) and ignore it... sorry... that's just not me.
LOL! No, really? :p In your three-hundred-and-something posts, I think we've all kinda figured that out about you already. :D Maybe it's the Brooklyn coming out (that's my cat's name, btw). It's a good thing ... really! :highfive:

Lizzie
July 7th, 2005, 08:08 PM
Sorry if your answer wasn't there but I think the closest one for you would have obviously been the second choice... next time I'll add other... oh mighty one. :D

Continuing to throw stones at one another doesn't resolve a problem. I don't think CK was proclaiming her stature on this board...

Perhaps her lack of knowledge of your personal limits to constructive criticism failed her in this instance. I imagine that not all members would have taken her comments the same way since they'd likely have already formed a relationship with her. In my opinion, this was where the mistake was made.

However, since academic credentials are being thrown around, why don't you both be smart and agree that this was an error in judgement and maturely walk away from this dispute. The fact remains that people are concerned about the tone of this board, so why don't we get back to that?

Furthermore, we don't know what is going on in everyone's life today. It's been a long day, filled with a lot of emotion for a lot of people...perhaps there are a few people on this board who are a little off their game today.

I say it's time to move on! :thumbs up

Angeleyes1437
July 7th, 2005, 08:14 PM
LOL! No, really? :p In your three-hundred-and-something posts, I think we've all kinda figured that out about you already. :D Maybe it's the Brooklyn coming out (that's my cat's name, btw). It's a good thing ... really! :highfive:


Well I am never rude to someone for no reason- I actually try to avoid it completely. I guess the Brooklyn stereotype has shone through to many places, lol- I didn't know! :)

Angeleyes1437
July 7th, 2005, 08:21 PM
Continuing to throw stones at one another doesn't resolve a problem. I don't think CK was proclaiming her stature on this board...

Perhaps her lack of knowledge of your personal limits to constructive criticism failed her in this instance. I imagine that not all members would have taken her comments the same way since they'd likely have already formed a relationship with her. In my opinion, this was where the mistake was made.

However, since academic credentials are being thrown around, why don't you both be smart and agree that this was an error in judgment and maturely walk away from this dispute. The fact remains that people are concerned about the tone of this board, so why don't we get back to that?

Furthermore, we don't know what is going on in everyone's life today. It's been a long day, filled with a lot of emotion for a lot of people...perhaps there are a few people on this board who are a little off their game today.

I say it's time to move on! :thumbs up

My personal limits are simply if someone is being mean to me for no reason I don't roll over and play submissive... sorry. Why do you only quote me? As if I started the problem! You seem to have scrolled over my other posts.

I never throw around academic credentials however I feel some people feel they can look down on others based on age or degree... thats just not right. I actually don't even believe a degree makes you "smart"- I know plenty of people in high ranking positions with high level degrees who don't know their elbow from their a** and plenty of people with no college degree who astonish me with knowledge.

Some people can have a bad day, but them being mean isn't excused- how do you know I have not had a bad day as well? Someone being mean can really bring you down more. I never see an excuse for being rude unless it was completely misunderstood.

Additionally, I never wanted to get off the MAIN subject of this thread... after all, I created it!

We all have our opinions on this, and I respect that... IMO we can definitely move on now.

Cactus Flower
July 7th, 2005, 08:26 PM
Yes, back to the point, indeed. Prin, you crack me up.

I am actually really glad that you started this thread, Angeleyes.

It's not just the newbies that get scared off.
I know a few senior members that have shared problems with me privately that they were too afraid to post on the board, for fear of being judged/attacked/misunderstood/looked down upon. I think that is very, very sad.

Then there are situations where I've gotten pm's from people who disagree with a senior member's post. I will respond with "Well, post your feelings about this", and their response is NO WAY! I'll be flamed!

It really does say something about the tone of the board overall. Nobody should be afraid to post their problems, or their feelings.

There seems to be a list of things that people feel safe sharing, and a list of "no-no's" that they would never have the nerve to confess on the board (such as having to rehome an animal, for any reason, ever).

I'd love to see the first list grow, and the second list shrink down to nothing :D .

babyrocky1
July 7th, 2005, 08:30 PM
I voted scared to post! This thread could be my explanation. Everyones feelings are hurt! And for what? People really need to be more gentle with one another here. Sometimes posts really dont reflect what the person is thinking and so you have to err on the side of caution rather than be hurtful.
When people post for advice they are also Trusting others with their feelings, especially if it is about thier beloved pet. When others jump all over them without understanding it betrays that trust. That may sound somewhat sensationalised but believe me it feels really bad! CK Im sorry your feelings are hurt. I have never been on a discussion board before so I dont have anything to compare this to and I guess Im surprised at how personal it all has become. I really only came here to find out what to do about BSL and now I feel as if I know some of you very well even though I dont post much outside the BSL thread. I dont because Im not comfortable with the level of hostility that sometimes comes out of no where, yet, on a good day, it seems like a great place to really talk to people of like mind. Its just that the threads turn ugly fast. Im not the kind of person that deals with conflict well and I really dont like to see people have their feelings hurt!

Kismutt
July 7th, 2005, 08:30 PM
Cyberkitten, I'm not sure how you ended up being the victim here. It was YOU who was rude to AngelEyes. A simple apology would have been sufficient. People don't come here to have their posts graded or put down, and that's the way your post came across (not for the first time, I might add). It was plain rude.

This has nothing to do with your alleged profession, and nobody jumped on you as if you were a "mass murderer". Gimme a break.

I second this.

I do not know either of the posters, so from an outsider looking in, my first thought was, "Wow, CK that was very insulting to Angeleyes". I did not understand why you were throwing her an insult, and figured it must be some past resentment or something.

Angeleyes1437
July 7th, 2005, 08:32 PM
Thank you Cactus Flower... I am glad I started it as well. I just wish it didn't turn into exactly what I was ranting about. I don't want anyone to get scared off... although I am not sure I have the seniority yet to have my opinion count as much as some of you.

I think it's a shame that people cannot always post their opinions without getting jumped on or feeling attacked. However, the worst thing to me is when someone misunderstands you and attacks you. ESPECIALLY when you explain yourself but they didn't read THOSE posts, lol... that really stinks!

Angeleyes1437
July 7th, 2005, 08:35 PM
I second this.

I do not know either of the posters, so from an outsider looking in, my first thought was, "Wow, CK that was very insulting to Angeleyes". I did not understand why you were throwing her an insult, and figured it must be some past resentment or something.

Thanks Kismutt... I never had an issue with CK, which is why I was :confused:

Hopefully we can start to avoid meaningless insults like this (whether or not it was intentional) in the future... it only hurts the quality of the forum. IMHO :D

Cactus Flower
July 7th, 2005, 08:40 PM
although I am not sure I have the seniority yet to have my opinion count as much as some of you.

Angeleyes, your opinion is worth just as much as ANYBODY'S here. It doesn't matter how many posts we have or don't have. It is also very informative to hear from someone with a fresh eye, so to speak, who is relatively new to the forum. How do we know what kind of first impressions we are giving, if nobody tells us?

You're doing great, and it was extremely brave of you to start this thread, rather than being "too scared to post".
:grouphug:

The poll results say it all. We've got to work on our reactions- eliminating that fear, making people more comfortable posting their problems and opinions. I'm sure that is how they intended this site to be, right?

Prin
July 7th, 2005, 08:41 PM
I suggest you take your age out so people won't judge you as an undergrad, as HORRIBLE as that is.

Angeleyes1437
July 7th, 2005, 08:43 PM
Angeleyes, your opinion is worth just as much as ANYBODY'S here. It doesn't matter how many posts we have or don't have. It is also very informative to hear from someone with a fresh eye, so to speak, who is relatively new to the forum. How do we know what kind of first impressions we are giving, if nobody tells us?

You're doing great, and it was extremely brave of you to start this thread, rather than being "too scared to post".
:grouphug:

The poll results say it all. We've got to work on our reactions- eliminating that fear, making people more comfortable posting their problems and opinions. I'm sure that is how they intended this site to be, right?

Awww,... I'm so touched by your post... it was SO sweet. I actually smiled while I was reading it. :grouphug:

Awwww again... seriously- that was so nice!

Angeleyes1437
July 7th, 2005, 08:44 PM
I suggest you take your age out so people won't judge you as an undergrad, as HORRIBLE as that is.

Yeah... I guess I should go do that now. Thanks for the advice. :thumbs up

Daisy's Owner
July 7th, 2005, 09:14 PM
I think people really need to be aware of how their words may come across. As has been said, they are only words on a page. But people also need to own their words. If 10 people bring it to your attention that your words came across as rude, whether you meant them to be or not, you need to sit back and look at what you have said. Nobody is going to learn anything about how not to be rude or at least have your words not come across that way until you accept your responsibility in it.

I do think that new members get scared away. I take that back. I know they get scared away. People have to understand that most people that come to an internet forum for their pets, more than likely know absolutely nothing about how to care for them. We all know it. It's a fact. It happens all the time. That's why so many animals end up in shelters. If people knew everything about their pets, they wouldn't need to come to a forum for advice. Why on earth would we drive someone away, only to have the animal wind up in a shelter and then PTS? That's what we are trying to stop isn't it.

I have said it before and I will say it again. If you are sick and tired of repeating yourself and feel that you can not offer advice without being rude about it. Let someone else do it.

Angeleyes1437
July 7th, 2005, 09:20 PM
I think people really need to be aware of how their words may come across. As has been said, they are only words on a page. But people also need to own their words. If 10 people bring it to your attention that your words came across as rude, whether you meant them to be or not, you need to sit back and look at what you have said. Nobody is going to learn anything about how not to be rude or at least have your words not come across that way until you accept your responsibility in it.

I do think that new members get scared away. I take that back. I know they get scared away. People have to understand that most people that come to an internet forum for their pets, more than likely know absolutely nothing about how to care for them. We all know it. It's a fact. It happens all the time. That's why so many animals end up in shelters. If people knew everything about their pets, they wouldn't need to come to a forum for advice. Why on earth would we drive someone away, only to have the animal wind up in a shelter and then PTS? That's what we are trying to stop isn't it.

I have said it before and I will say it again. If you are sick and tired of repeating yourself and feel that you can not offer advice without being rude about it. Let someone else do it.

I totally agree with you Daisy- the purpose of this forum is to educate and discuss, no? Why fight and scare people away?

dmc123
July 7th, 2005, 09:26 PM
Well said Daisy :)

Diane

twinmommy
July 7th, 2005, 10:30 PM
hmmm. 44%, ALMOST HALF of the people who voted are afraid to post.
That's pretty bad. What's the point of an informative website?

I think that it is very frustrating to those who have been here a while to read constantly about people who have no money to bring their animals to a vet, and continue to post while the poor animal bleeds out or dies of a blockage.

However, no good will come from ranting at the OP. THEY LEAVE. PERIOD.
With their bleeding /dog/cat/ blockage/renal failure/ pregnant chi/ breeding lhasapoo....!! whatever issue they are lacking education on, THEY LEAVE.

Just as ignorant and uneducated as when they arrived.

There is a difference--even without the tone of conversation--between a debate and a flaming. I love a good debate myself, but condescending comments are soon replied with "you don't know me, or my story" or "who do you think you are?" and the like.

Marko, you wanted to know what the admins could do?(Noticed no one answered you... :) ) they could calmly, and DIPLOMATICLY close the thread. Many threads I have seen people begging for it to be closed. Finally it wil close but not before the mod as well has given a couple digs--what a shame that such knowledge be peppered with sarcasm and condescension!!

Anyways, don't want to go on and on, but you asked.... :rolleyes:
I just think we could catch more flies with honey is all.....

Angeleyes1437
July 7th, 2005, 10:44 PM
Twinmommy-- I did make suggestions. I was trying to make this thread informative so people would see the way they react really bothers people... only to get a demeaning post (but more nice ones) in return. Hopefully SOME good can actually come out of this.

DogueLover
July 7th, 2005, 10:45 PM
I have been on this forum a while and do post when the post is about some issue I know about.
However, we did lose a member or two here due to the harsh atmosphere and debates that became personal attacks on someone`s character.
CK you admittedly had a bad day, that happens to all of us. When I read your post to Angel Eyes I scratched my head and wondered where the heck those comments came from. ........ and yes I thought it was rather rude to pick apart someone`s post and then make grammar and spelling mistakes in your own. Maybe today was not a good day for you to post, you have a lot on your mind and no doubt have a lot of emotions that are getting the best of you. That being said, I don`t think it is mean for the others on this thread to let you know that intentional or not they found your post rude.
Can you maybe just see that it was not just Angeleyes that noted it and maybe, just maybe, understand that you made a mistake, and apologize?

My sister gives some of the best advice I know and she has had a life that has been very hard, most people would have broken down and been put away in a ward somewhere had they gone through what she has,,,,,,,, she told me one time when I asked her what I could do when I had screwed up royally and she just laughed and said well, you can sit there and complain about how it isn`t your fault and you didn`t mean to hurt anyone`s feelings or you can be happy the guy upstairs gave you a big enough throat to swallow your damn pride, admit you were wrong and apologize. :)

This thread is a perfect example of the tone on this board and I think we all need to change that if it is to keep going.

Heck, if you look back at the thread where I made a comment about a lady in wal mart who was "overweight" you`ll see that I took my sister`s advice and I apologized more than once, for a comment that I made that some people found offensive and rude.

Let it bounce around in your head CK........... the way you feel is very similar to how your comments made Angel feel............maybe an apology is in order????


Okay, got the flame retardant gear on , if I am out of line let er fly........I`m ready.

twinmommy
July 7th, 2005, 10:49 PM
Angeleyes--I should have said "aside from the OP..." but anyways, you get the gist. Great thread by the way. :thumbs up

twinmommy
July 7th, 2005, 10:52 PM
Doguelover!!! LOL you KILL me! Here ya go....http://bestsmileys.com/firemen/3.gif

pags
July 7th, 2005, 10:59 PM
Well it took me all day to decide... And I finally had to choose "scared to post". I don't think there is anything particularly wrong with this forum. I am absolutely sure there is nothing wrong with the people who participate here... I think that these personality clashes are simply quite normal when a group of diverse people get together to talk about the things discussed here.

What are those things we're not supposed to discuss at the dinner table? Women, politics, and religion? (Being a woman myself I have always found it hard to comply with the first one... Hmmm..) Maybe we should add 'pets' to that old cliche. :) The fact is -- the issues we discuss here are very very often moral issues. What is lacking sometimes is a healthy respect for another's beliefs ... Not mere opinion -- but belief.

We should spend a lot less time telling someone why we believe he or she is WRONG and a lot more time simply stating why we believe what we believe.

Angeleyes1437
July 7th, 2005, 11:01 PM
LOL, you guys are funny. Twinmommy, I just wanted to make sure you saw that I was trying to be helpful.

And thank you doguelover... it's funny but for no reason I was browing posts and came across that one about the puppy chow. I personally don't think you were out of line- but it was nice of you to apologize for that.

Angeleyes1437
July 7th, 2005, 11:09 PM
Nicely put Pags :highfive:

DogueLover
July 7th, 2005, 11:14 PM
I doesn`t matter if I thought I was or wasn`t some people thought I was rude and that the comment was hurtful so I figure, ( speaking to myself now not to anyone else) "If you`ve got a big enough mouth to spout that off be glad your throat is big enough to swallow your pride and apologize to those you offended."
Sometimes I think members only want to be right and they will go to extremes to prove that their way is the only way and that their opinion is the only one that matters. Feelings are bound to be hurt when those attitudes pop up.

So now if everyone here can go look in the mirror ,.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, check how big your throat is compared to your mouth,,,,,, if one needs to be stretched maybe work on that.

We may not all get along here but we can at least all be respectful.

Kismutt
July 7th, 2005, 11:21 PM
hmmm. 44%, ALMOST HALF of the people who voted are afraid to post. That's pretty bad......

I second that.


Many threads I have seen people begging for it to be closed. Finally it will close but not before the mod as well has given a couple digs--what a shame that such knowledge be peppered with sarcasm and condescension!!

I am so glad you brought this up! Many times I have been floored at how rude and sarcastic a Mod has been. When the Mod(s) are doing it, other's feel it is O.K. and will follow suit.

Prin
July 8th, 2005, 12:23 AM
If you can imagine how many new threads there are a day in how many subforums and that the mods/admins do have lives away from the computer and this website, you can sympathize that they're not always up-to-the-minute. You have to pm them with the thread if you want it handled. You can't assume they know about it.

As for this:
Okay, got the flame retardant gear on , if I am out of line let er fly........I`m ready. Seems like that is how so many posts end these days too...

Also, I know it's been said before but when people ask a question and then dismiss every suggestion given to them... And I'm not just talking about newbies, who pop in with questions and get peeved and leave. It's just looking for a fight. It's so aggravating to the readers... It reminds me of that cereal commercial:

"Name a breakfast food; there's no wrong answer."
"Bacon and eggs."
"WRONG!"

Cactus Flower
July 8th, 2005, 12:28 AM
Sometimes I think members only want to be right and they will go to extremes to prove that their way is the only way

Sadly, I agree with this observation.

Since we're interested in giving ourselves a makeover, let me mention one more thing that I feel we need to work on:
I have read a few threads where a senior member has been supported, comforted, or at least accepted for doing something that a newbie would be (or has been) flamed for.
I remember one time in particular, two unrelated threads were going. One by a newbie, one by a senior member. In one thread, the newbie said that she put Tabasco sauce on her hands to stop her pet from biting her. She was shredded for that! People jumped all over her, calling her cruel, heartless, etc. On the OTHER thread, the senior member had stated that she put Tabasco on the electrical cords in her house, to stop her dog from chewing them. NOBODY said a word about that. Not....ONE.....word.

I feel we need to treat everyone equally here. It's perfectly natural to develop relationships, even favorites, on a site like this. But the same standard should apply to every poster, regardless.

melanie
July 8th, 2005, 01:15 AM
i had to vote too scared to post, cause man you all scare the life outta me, lol lol lol lol..... bahahahahahahahaha

PS- i did not post this msg, it was done telepathically as i am wayyyyy to scared to post anything in person, stop lookin at me........ :D :D :p

pags
July 8th, 2005, 01:19 AM
ROFL melanie!! You crack me up!!!! :D

melanie
July 8th, 2005, 01:42 AM
lol, i jsut read the entire thread, what a crack, lol.... sorry but im way to much of a smart arse to agree with you :p .. (for a secound there i thought this post was about me, lol lol lol )

things i have said here over the years may be interpreted as harsh, mean, rude or not calld for, and i say 'sooooo what'' :D . really in my world i call a spade a spade, i rarely dress anything up to suit the audience, why bother, lifes wayyyy too short to beat around the bush and quite frankly i find ppl way to sensitive here.. if i have something to say i say it, if you dont liek it dont read it really....

and as far as threads or comments being too rude to be able to reply back or shy away in fright from your key board, my god, i thought debate was a spice of life and as far as i can discern, in the past 2 yrs i have only found one thread totally insulting and downright wrong, not the comments but the topic itself... so thats pretty good really.

everyone is different, we all speak differently and use diff expressions which has a great effect.. eg. an english friend recently called my husband a word that in australian slang is pretty downright insulting, i was really put off, till i found out to the english its jsut a common friendly ribbing term.

horses for courses dont you see???

HEY, and back off from CK, goodness or it will be a bit of fisty cuffs out the back for the lotta yas, RIGHTO :rolleyes: CRAP

and yes i am still as terrified as i was 10mins ago, and 10 days ago, and 10 mths ago holy crap im scared, i think i will pour water on my pc, that should fix the problem :eek:

CyberKitten
July 8th, 2005, 01:48 AM
I am sorry for whatever I said that was so terrible and re: nobody jumped on you as if you were a "mass murderer". Gimme a break.

No one can tell someone else how they feel and you just did that. Have you never read that book by Marlo Thomas? Iforget the title - it was for kids and we have it at the office, it's a wonderful book to help kids feel better about themselves. I FEEL terrible, still do.

I reread my post and as someone who is always kind, if I said something that upset someone, I truly apologize. But I just do not understand how a post that began about nasty or snarky remarks ended up with me in tears - I can't sleep, sigh!!! Maybe I am easily hurt but I doubt it. I've been thru hell and back and managed to survive worst than this but this made me feel so low and rejected and horrible. I really did feel indicted as a mass murderer. You cannot possible know how I or anyone feels about something. I may try to understand and comenserate with someone but as the old saying goes, don't criticize anyone till you've walked a milk or should I say kilometer in their shoes.

It is not a Brooklyn thing - I don't know where you live nor do I even realize there are notions about Brooklyn. We have a Brookyn, Nova Scotia. A wonderful quaint little village where one of my best friends lives - an ideal place. Actually, there are 3 Brooklyn's in Nova Scotia tho I only have been to that one, located in Queens County. I have been to the one in NYC (is that where you're from? Sorry, I did not read the profile - I admittedly rarely do, I do not like to judge ppl).. However, I have only travelled thru that one - do not really know it well enough to comment. What can possibly be wrong with it and why would you feel ppl have notions about it? I find that interesting that you assume that - or is it an inside joke of some kind?

I am very serious and I meant no harm. I was reviewing a survey that had been badly done and I just thought when I saw this poll that it's one of my pet peaves (I see it too often I guess) that ppl leave others out (I hate to see anyone excluded and make that point when you are designing a study that it is not about rejection but if you want good results, you need a good design. I am sure you know that - I was not suggesting you did not nor was I questioning your intelligence or ability.

And I do not understand why you would even think for one minute that I see anything wrong with being an undergraduate. Quite the contrary actually. It is a common expression here - kind of a term of endearment even among undergrads so perhaps my fault is to assume that others utilize the same joking remarks in referencing groups. For my friends and I, regardless of what we do - work at McD or pratice law, whatever - we look fondly on our days as an undergrad and use that expression in that way. I have utiklized frequently on this site to refer to my own foibles in fact. And I have many - I have never seen myself as all knowing. No one is. And I resent the fact that now, some of you are laughing are expression as if it is wrong. Everyone has expressions that they use frequently - that is one of ours. I am wrong ibn assuming of course that people would see it in the same vein and obviuosly, someone thought I was laughing at undergrads. That is hardly the case. I think some of you know that and have opted to laugh at us here anyway. Laughhing at anyone is unkind!!!!

I am upset that almost everyone who posted seemed to think I was being nasty. If they have been here, they should know I am never nasty. As I said, I do make some heated remarks about bybreeders or declawing or the issues I hold near and dear to my heart and try to be diplomatic but sometimes I say more than I should then.

I just think we need to be fair to one another and not be so hurtful of each other. I never thought this was a particularly nasty site - opinionated and controversial spometimes but not really nasty. Now I have to wonder but I guess as someone pointed out, it is newer ppl - ppl I suppose do not or do not want - to know me.

People have made critical comments of me before - but none have cut me so deeply as this one. I reread them and they are not anything I would not say again. Maybe I'd say them differently. I was not saying you have to be perfect but I would honestly have liked to have participated in the poll but no category fits me so I was left having to explain why. It prob did not help that my occupation requires me to make corrections and so I do, almost as a second nature. My mother was a teacher (grade 2 for many yrs) and she did the same thing so I grew up thinking it was appreciated and usually it is.

I have always tried to provide solutions and information to the best of my ability and in as polite a manner as possible.

I also think it nasty of anyone to judge me before you even know me and to lash out me so cruelly without even knowing me. I for one would never do that. I see the rougher side of life and it is always my goal to make it a better place to live - because it can be so short and so painful in so many ways.

This site is one place I have been able to talk without worrying about fsomeone saying the next day "you know what so and so said...".. kind of a buffer. As much as I love my work and my volunteer activities, academic and hospital politics can have their negative side and I do not need to worry about them here - just share my concerns about animal welfare, my pictures and antics of my baby YY and my foster kitties and the occasional issue we discuss. Given the vitrioloc response tonite, I no longer feel as welcome or as safe as I did here in the past. Maybe it was all an illusion and I nwas not as welcome here as I once thought.

I grew up with a disability and am quire involved in that area so rejection of any kind is something I fight agaonst ALL the time, even in surveys. I know some of you think I am over the top when I express concern about certain pc terms but I take those things very seriously. I honestly believe that we devalue anyone, we devalue all of us and all of society and thus I pratice inclusion in everything that I do. I even advise our Premier on the subject - it's a political appointment so he has to listen whether he wants to or not, lol (I guess he can always unappoint me, hehheh)

I do not care if anyone is impressed by that or what I say. I have the feeling some of you laugh at what I say about non pc expressions and that just makes me all the more vigilant about fighting for the rights of the diabled (Someone said, I forget who about being unimpressed with something I said) - I do not care about that. I just care that you treat everyone with dignity.
but
I do not deserve to have been so ill treated in this thread - and it tells me something about the priorities of those who made the comments and to be honest, I have so little lesiure time that it is not as likely I will spend as much time here anymore if that is how you all feel. I am tired, dealing with much post traumatic stress (unlike those musicians who stand on stage to raise money, I have exhausted mysaelf in those far flung countries trying to do what I can with the little that the few resources we actually deem to send there) and coupled with too many deaths of young children, I probably need a vacation. But I am not a mean person and am deeply and horribly hurt that anyone would even continue to discuss it.

I am sorry my comments were misunderstood but even with that fail to see why being mean to someone in return for a perceived slight helps anything. I and anyone else in a similar situation does not deserve this. It is simply not fair. I doubt I will ever see this site as the safe place where I could exchange a few kind wiords with friends ever again and that makes me very sad! I was actually going to dicsuss something another collegaue did that I found distubing (and it was one I found condesending - doctors who don't do their part after surgery or a procedure and assume they are "better" or "above" that kind of thing. I got into a argument with a male colleague this AM (started off the day well you might say) when he loudly criticized me for helping the nurses and a lab tech clean up some blood during a minor problem with a blood draw. I told him he was no better than anyone else and to get over himself and he then created another prob for me.) Of course, since I am so condescending according to all of you, maybe it is me who dioes not know my place. I almost hate the kind of self importance his tone generated. Anyway - I won't talk about it now since it has been made clear you all think I am not worthy of your time)

I really did enjoy this site too - makes me most unhappy that people can be so mean about the most mundane things! Anyway, enoygh said! To those who have been kind to me on this site, thanks so much!!

Kismutt
July 8th, 2005, 02:10 AM
I am sorry for whatever I said that was so terrible and re: nobody jumped on you as if you were a "mass murderer". Gimme a break.

No one can tell someone else how they feel and you just did that. Have you never read that book by Marlo Thomas? Iforget the title - it was for kids and we have it at the office, it's a wonderful book to help kids feel better about themselves. I FEEL terrible, still do.

I reread my post and as someone who is always kind, if I said something that upset someone, I truly apologize. But I just do not understand how a post that began about nasty or snarky remarks ended up with me in tears - I can't sleep, sigh!!! Maybe I am easily hurt but I doubt it. I've been thru hell and back and managed to survive worst than this but this made me feel so low and rejected and horrible. I really did feel indicted as a mass murderer. You cannot possible know how I or anyone feels about something. I may try to understand and comenserate with someone but as the old saying goes, don't criticize anyone till you've walked a milk or should I say kilometer in their shoes.

It is not a Brooklyn thing - I don't know where you live nor do I even realize there are notions about Brooklyn. We have a Brookyn, Nova Scotia. A wonderful quaint little village where one of my best friends lives - an ideal place. Actually, there are 3 Brooklyn's in Nova Scotia tho I only have been to that one, located in Queens County. I have been to the one in NYC (is that where you're from? Sorry, I did not read the profile - I admittedly rarely do, I do not like to judge ppl).. However, I have only travelled thru that one - do not really know it well enough to comment. What can possibly be wrong with it and why would you feel ppl have notions about it? I find that interesting that you assume that - or is it an inside joke of some kind?

I am very serious and I meant no harm. I was reviewing a survey that had been badly done and I just thought when I saw this poll that it's one of my pet peaves (I see it too often I guess) that ppl leave others out (I hate to see anyone excluded and make that point when you are designing a study that it is not about rejection but if you want good results, you need a good design. I am sure you know that - I was not suggesting you did not nor was I questioning your intelligence or ability.

And I do not understand why you would even think for one minute that I see anything wrong with being an undergraduate. Quite the contrary actually. It is a common expression here - kind of a term of endearment even among undergrads so perhaps my fault is to assume that others utilize the same joking remarks in referencing groups. For my friends and I, regardless of what we do - work at McD or pratice law, whatever - we look fondly on our days as an undergrad and use that expression in that way. I have utiklized frequently on this site to refer to my own foibles in fact. And I have many - I have never seen myself as all knowing. No one is. And I resent the fact that now, some of you are laughing are expression as if it is wrong. Everyone has expressions that they use frequently - that is one of ours. I am wrong ibn assuming of course that people would see it in the same vein and obviuosly, someone thought I was laughing at undergrads. That is hardly the case. I think some of you know that and have opted to laugh at us here anyway. Laughhing at anyone is unkind!!!!

I am upset that almost everyone who posted seemed to think I was being nasty. If they have been here, they should know I am never nasty. As I said, I do make some heated remarks about bybreeders or declawing or the issues I hold near and dear to my heart and try to be diplomatic but sometimes I say more than I should then.

I just think we need to be fair to one another and not be so hurtful of each other. I never thought this was a particularly nasty site - opinionated and controversial spometimes but not really nasty. Now I have to wonder but I guess as someone pointed out, it is newer ppl - ppl I suppose do not or do not want - to know me.

People have made critical comments of me before - but none have cut me so deeply as this one. I reread them and they are not anything I would not say again. Maybe I'd say them differently. I was not saying you have to be perfect but I would honestly have liked to have participated in the poll but no category fits me so I was left having to explain why. It prob did not help that my occupation requires me to make corrections and so I do, almost as a second nature. My mother was a teacher (grade 2 for many yrs) and she did the same thing so I grew up thinking it was appreciated and usually it is.

I have always tried to provide solutions and information to the best of my ability and in as polite a manner as possible.

I also think it nasty of anyone to judge me before you even know me and to lash out me so cruelly without even knowing me. I for one would never do that. I see the rougher side of life and it is always my goal to make it a better place to live - because it can be so short and so painful in so many ways.

This site is one place I have been able to talk without worrying about fsomeone saying the next day "you know what so and so said...".. kind of a buffer. As much as I love my work and my volunteer activities, academic and hospital politics can have their negative side and I do not need to worry about them here - just share my concerns about animal welfare, my pictures and antics of my baby YY and my foster kitties and the occasional issue we discuss. Given the vitrioloc response tonite, I no longer feel as welcome or as safe as I did here in the past. Maybe it was all an illusion and I nwas not as welcome here as I once thought.

I grew up with a disability and am quire involved in that area so rejection of any kind is something I fight agaonst ALL the time, even in surveys. I know some of you think I am over the top when I express concern about certain pc terms but I take those things very seriously. I honestly believe that we devalue anyone, we devalue all of us and all of society and thus I pratice inclusion in everything that I do. I even advise our Premier on the subject - it's a political appointment so he has to listen whether he wants to or not, lol (I guess he can always unappoint me, hehheh)

I do not care if anyone is impressed by that or what I say. I have the feeling some of you laugh at what I say about non pc expressions and that just makes me all the more vigilant about fighting for the rights of the diabled (Someone said, I forget who about being unimpressed with something I said) - I do not care about that. I just care that you treat everyone with dignity.
but
I do not deserve to have been so ill treated in this thread - and it tells me something about the priorities of those who made the comments and to be honest, I have so little lesiure time that it is not as likely I will spend as much time here anymore if that is how you all feel. I am tired, dealing with much post traumatic stress (unlike those musicians who stand on stage to raise money, I have exhausted mysaelf in those far flung countries trying to do what I can with the little that the few resources we actually deem to send there) and coupled with too many deaths of young children, I probably need a vacation. But I am not a mean person and am deeply and horribly hurt that anyone would even continue to discuss it.

I am sorry my comments were misunderstood but even with that fail to see why being mean to someone in return for a perceived slight helps anything. I and anyone else in a similar situation does not deserve this. It is simply not fair. I doubt I will ever see this site as the safe place where I could exchange a few kind wiords with friends ever again and that makes me very sad! I was actually going to dicsuss something another collegaue did that I found distubing (and it was one I found condesending - doctors who don't do their part after surgery or a procedure and assume they are "better" or "above" that kind of thing. I got into a argument with a male colleague this AM (started off the day well you might say) when he loudly criticized me for helping the nurses and a lab tech clean up some blood during a minor problem with a blood draw. I told him he was no better than anyone else and to get over himself and he then created another prob for me.) Of course, since I am so condescending according to all of you, maybe it is me who dioes not know my place. I almost hate the kind of self importance his tone generated. Anyway - I won't talk about it now since it has been made clear you all think I am not worthy of your time)

I really did enjoy this site too - makes me most unhappy that people can be so mean about the most mundane things! Anyway, enoygh said! To those who have been kind to me on this site, thanks so much!!

created when the patient was a bleeder

:rolleyes: Please go to bed. :rolleyes:

CyberKitten
July 8th, 2005, 02:16 AM
Please don't be so rude. I am awake because I am trying to cope with chronic pain - and reading takes my mind off it. I could add to that but unlike you, I see no need to be sarcastic. It solves nothing as hopefully you will find out.

If I dare offer advice, you would save server space by not quoting an entire post. :)

Daisy's Owner
July 8th, 2005, 06:52 AM
things i have said here over the years may be interpreted as harsh, mean, rude or not calld for, and i say 'sooooo what''

That's the whole point of this thread. People are scared to post here because other posters make rude, harsh or uncalled for statements with a "so what" attitude.

. really in my world i call a spade a spade, i rarely dress anything up to suit the audience, why bother, lifes wayyyy too short to beat around the bush and quite frankly i find ppl way to sensitive here.. if i have something to say i say it,

If people are too sensitive here, than what is the harm in "dressing up" to suit the audience. Really? What is the harm in being nice? You can still get your point across without being rude. You might find people become a lot less sensitive once the atmosphere changes. Obviously the atmosphere here NEEDS to change because a whole lot of people here are scared to post. And those are the overly sensitive people that were brave enough to stick around.

if you dont liek it dont read it really....

You are right. If you don't like it. Don't read it. This would be a really dull place with nobody reading or learning anything.

I have read a few threads where a senior member has been supported, comforted, or at least accepted for doing something that a newbie would be (or has been) flamed for.

This is so true. I don't remember the tobasco thread, but I have seen this happen a couple of times as well.

shannon1233A
July 8th, 2005, 09:14 AM
Well, I also have to vote afraid to post. I believe we all come here because we are very passionate about those that don't have a voice, our beloved pets. Being so passionate, brings with it, a variety of emotions; and I think some posts are made in emotional mode rather than intellectual mode.

They're made with passion, which can be a good thing, or a bad thing. I think we have to take the social atmosphere in the world at the time. Using myself as an example, before coming to the site, I was mostly unaware of the Pit Bull Bans in many cities :sorry: I became quickly educated on the topic, but before I was I had posted a "joke" which a couple of posters found offensive. From my perspective, it was what the topic of the joke I found amusing, for others it was the whole subject. Anyway, I guess it was your mind set when reading it, and what was going on in the world around us. As I said, I had no idea, but it was pointed out to me, politely, and when I read what may lay behind the responses, I completely understood and deleted the offending post, for respect to the posters who felt offended. I think that's part of the problem, having respect for another's opinions and viewpoint, and understanding why they feel that way. I also appologized, which I needed to do for myself, as upon reflection of my post, I could completely understand why it sounded so ignorant! See, I had been sensitized to the outside environment, and now try to bring it with me to the board.

Now, I've shed many tears since coming here, not because I've been hurt, but because I feel so stongly for all doggies and kittys, and tend to bring that to the board with me. If I find I'm about to post emotionally, I'll often make the post, save it, leave the board for a little while, and if I still feel stongly about it half an hour later, I'll come back and post it to the board. Maybe, some don't do that and post and debate emotionally rather than debate intellectually, making their views clear, precise, and give their reasons for the way they feel in an objective manner. That's the way it was done for me, THANK YOU< YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE :angel: and I did learn from it.


I admit, it is difficult though when you love all animals as much as we all do on this board :grouphug: It's up to us not to let what brings us together, tear us apart. I guess we have to try to post with passion for what we love, but with understanding, and empathy , and I know sometimes it's impossible, especially when it's something like a sick pet not getting the care it so deserves. :Sigh :highfive:

BMDLuver
July 8th, 2005, 09:30 AM
Hmmm. I'm not actually sure which category I would fall into. I'm pretty sure I've been rude on occasion and have tried to apologize for being so. I know I definitely get heated about some subjects and find certain posts hard to ignore. I agree that probably the best solution is to think carefully before posting and reread the post in it's entirety before submitting it. We all have days that are worse than others, so perhaps on those days we can take into consideration that it might not be the best idea to respond on that day or to choose words carefully when responding. I always remember my mom's favorite saying "Careful of the words you say, keep them soft and sweet, you'll never know from day to day which one's you'll have to eat". I probably need that stamped on my forehead to remember it. :o

Writing4Fun
July 8th, 2005, 09:30 AM
hmmm. 44%, ALMOST HALF of the people who voted are afraid to post.
Actually, it's up to 55% this morning, but take that with a grain of salt. Only 19 people actually voted this way, out of how many thousands of members (or, at least, of the hundreds that are currently participating)? That means the rest haven't voted at all. Is that because a) they haven't seen this thread yet, b) they really couldn't care less or c) neither of the above?

Any political analysts out there?? :D

Honestly, I've seen some nastiness on this site. I sometimes wish people could debate without resorting to rude comments or name calling (myself included, but hey, we're only human after all). When it gets to be too much, that's when I take a hiatus. But, we always come back, don't we? I think that speaks volumes. ;)

I also agree that the mods are doing a great job. Yes, if you see something you don't like, send them a link (Marko's probably getting quite tired of hearing from me by now :p ). You can bet it'll be dealt with swiftly. :thumbs up

marko
July 8th, 2005, 09:48 AM
Please keep the posts coming - I would like to hear from DIFFERENT people as well.

Part of this thread IS becoming a bicker thread - if you are part of the bickering please stop.

Please continue to add what you think the ADMINS should do about rudeness.

Thanks to the OP again for starting this thread.

Marko

Goldenmom
July 8th, 2005, 10:08 AM
I was emailing back and forth with a long time poster here and she said to "I am passionate about what I believe in and I don't back down" Yes, that is obvious at many times, but also can come across as being rude to some people. I don't try to take sides ever, I try to see both sides and try to see where they are coming from. When someone is so very passionate about a topic, I believe it is a losing battle and one that maybe should be stopped after each has given their passionate opinion. I always say "lets agree to disagree"

Heather

Goldenmom
July 8th, 2005, 10:11 AM
Please keep the posts coming - I would like to hear from DIFFERENT people as well.

Part of this thread IS becoming a bicker thread - if you are part of the bickering please stop.

Please continue to add what you think the ADMINS should do about rudeness.

Thanks to the OP again for starting this thread.

Marko


Marko, I think the only thing that can be done is to PM the individuals that are being rude and ask them to please think hard before posting again. At times I feel a thread should be locked before hurt feelings arise, but at other times it is good to hear (see) a good debate. I said "good" not "rude" Poster should also not "gang" up on one person so they feel that way. I know it hurts to feel ganged up on. Its like someone emails the others and says "check out thread 1234, come help me out" I can't say it hasn't happened to me, because it has, however, I just read and don't get involved. Its their battle, not mine.

Heather

Heather

Goldenmom
July 8th, 2005, 10:14 AM
Hmmm. I'm not actually sure which category I would fall into. I'm pretty sure I've been rude on occasion and have tried to apologize for being so. I know I definitely get heated about some subjects and find certain posts hard to ignore. I agree that probably the best solution is to think carefully before posting and reread the post in it's entirety before submitting it. We all have days that are worse than others, so perhaps on those days we can take into consideration that it might not be the best idea to respond on that day or to choose words carefully when responding. I always remember my mom's favorite saying "Careful of the words you say, keep them soft and sweet, you'll never know from day to day which one's you'll have to eat". I probably need that stamped on my forehead to remember it. :o


I LOVED your quote and so true! I have never heard it, but certainly will post it somewhere that I can see it every day. I always try to count to 10 before responding to people.

Britishvixen21
July 8th, 2005, 11:53 AM
What a great Thread, I was going to start one similiar myself but was too scared!!

I find the senior members on this site are soooo rude, and i find it funny that apart from one, they have ignored this thread completly.

The seniors on this site have very quickly forgotten what it is like to be a new pet owner, and instead of congratulating these people for trying to research and comming onto the site for help, they are all to quick to berate them and call them stupid for not knowing something that is "obvious" (obvious to someone that works with animals!

I have seen newbies on here leave, they have not even seen the few pieces of good advice inbetween the insult throwing and have left never to return and there animal problems are still there.

Marko you should be berrating these seniors they should no better!

I have also considered leaving this site for good at times. and even recently however a good majority of people are very knowledgable and I have not only been fortunate enough to find my kitty katty on here, but also found very good tips. without being called a dumb idiot for not knowing it.

Writing4Fun
July 8th, 2005, 12:29 PM
I find the senior members on this site are soooo rude, and i find it funny that apart from one, they have ignored this thread completly.
Just curious ... what's your definition of a "senior member"? 'Cause I believe the board standard is that you're a "senior" after 100 posts or so. A lot of "seniors" have posted, yourself included ;) .

lisa-lisa
July 8th, 2005, 12:31 PM
I'm afraid I put my vote in the "afraid to post" column. I'm really new here and I always think it's important to take the time to read and get the "culture" of a forum before diving in. Otherwise you're bound to make mistakes. But I must admit that having done a lot of reading here, I've been kind of nervous about posting much and more than once really put off to see how some people are treating each other.

Don't get me wrong. I'm angry too when people don't treat their animals well.

But I don't think the nastiness should be tolerated.

That's a hard job for an administrator. I used to be admin at another site and we had a "silencer" function, whereby when people were out of line, they could be silenced for a specified period of time. Usually we'd start with just one day. They could read but not post. Then if the problem continued, the length of time could increase, although at that point, a person would more likely just be banned from the forum. It was a nice alternative to just banning someone outright. I hated using it... but it worked much better than my gently worded warnings. ;)

Angeleyes1437
July 8th, 2005, 12:35 PM
lisa-lisa good point. I was speaking to my boyfriend and at his forum they have something called "the cell". When someone is out of line BAD and doesn't respond to warnings they put them in the cell for a certain amount of time. They can only post in this thread to ask what they did, apologize, etc.

Just a thought.

Prin
July 8th, 2005, 12:53 PM
I have read a few threads where a senior member has been supported, comforted, or at least accepted for doing something that a newbie would be (or has been) flamed for.
I remember one time in particular, two unrelated threads were going. One by a newbie, one by a senior member. In one thread, the newbie said that she put Tabasco sauce on her hands to stop her pet from biting her. She was shredded for that! People jumped all over her, calling her cruel, heartless, etc. On the OTHER thread, the senior member had stated that she put Tabasco on the electrical cords in her house, to stop her dog from chewing them. NOBODY said a word about that. Not....ONE.....word.

I feel we need to treat everyone equally here. It's perfectly natural to develop relationships, even favorites, on a site like this. But the same standard should apply to every poster, regardless.
I agree. I remember those two threads. The newbie of one thread left and never came back because s/he ACCIDENTALLY discovered that dogs don't like tobasco when a doggy licked his/her hand while there was some left over on there. Meanwhile, the other tobasco user was an authority in the other thread about how to deter pets from eating things around the house.

Another case like this arose when two people decide to put dogs down for aggressive behavior. Both were inexperienced dog owners. Both were incapable of really fixing the situation. In the case of the newbie, the person got THRASHED. In the case of the regular, everyone sympathized. I was at a loss for words on that one. I could not believe that everybody was condoning putting a dog down because ONE PERSON couldn't figure him out. One inexperienced person at that.

We assume that the newbies aren't really using all the resources available to help themselves, but how can we assume that the regulars aren't doing the same? That's about as logical as assuming that not one regular on the board has ever abused an animal. How can you know? You can't know what people don't talk about. And you can't believe everything people write either.

To me, it's wrong to put a dog down for the reason that YOU can't handle him. No matter who posts, I will never condone it. Somebody somewhere can help this dog. If you're too lazy to find that person, admit it, and admit you failed this dog and move on. I hate it when people assume there is a magic pill to get a good dog. There isn't. It's a lot of learning, a lot of patience, and a TON of time.

Sorry, I got a bit sidetracked. Bottom line is, wrong is wrong, whether or not we know the person. Even if somebody appears to know what they are talking about, they can answer something whacky, and possibly dangerous, and we can't let it slide if we jump on anybody else for the same thing.

Daisy's Owner
July 8th, 2005, 01:11 PM
lisa-lisa good point. I was speaking to my boyfriend and at his forum they have something called "the cell". When someone is out of line BAD and doesn't respond to warnings they put them in the cell for a certain amount of time. They can only post in this thread to ask what they did, apologize, etc.

Just a thought.


"The cell" That is a great idea.

Lucky Rescue
July 8th, 2005, 01:19 PM
The person who commented on me not posting on this thread is someone who I spent a lot of time and effort trying to help with a cat problem. Oh well that's okay, as long as the pet got some help. After all, that's my only reason for being here.

No, I did not post here, or even look at this thread earlier because I have no interest in gripes like these and have better things to do.

If bluntness and honesty are seen as rude, that cannot be helped. Name calling and personal insults are definitely discouraged and are against the rules.

If someone comes here asking for help with a problem and wants advice and is going to at least consider that advice, that's fine.

When someone comes with an animal who is sick, suffering or dying and gets angry when told to take it to the vet and flatly refuses to do so, then I think someone needs to be blunt with them.

If I get a little testy when seeing the 100th+ post saying "My cat is pregnant" well I am not apologizing for it.

If someone is breeding his/her puppy, and even after being told all the downsides to it still says "Well, I want puppies" then again, some plain speaking is needed.

Someone says, "My cat is bleeding so I put it outside cause it's unsanitary" all I can think of is that animal in pain, so sorry if I don't pick and choose my words.

Sorry, but trying to help a suffering animal takes precedence over not wanting to hurt someone's feelings. People can take themselves to doctors, animals must suffer in silence if no one will help them.

I have gotten MANY MANY PMs thanking me for advice I gave or helping get homes for abandoned animals.

Another case like this arose when two people decide to put dogs down for aggressive behavior. Both were inexperienced dog owners. Both were incapable of really fixing the situation. In the case of the newbie, the person got THRASHED. In the case of the regular, everyone sympathized. I was at a loss for words on that one. I could not believe that everybody was condoning putting a dog down because ONE PERSON couldn't figure him out.
For the umpteenth and I hope LAST time, that person - in the entire thread - insisted the dog was being dumped for wrecking flowers and chewing shoes, etc. AGGRESSION WAS NOT HINTED AT and one here can read minds.

IF anyone wishes to have me, or any other "rude" senior member removed from this board, please contact Marko.

LavenderRott
July 8th, 2005, 01:24 PM
Hmmmmm. Well, I didn't vote.

I did read all the replies though.

Part of the problem is that everything here is being read. When you carry on a conversation with someone, face to face, many things besides just the words you use are taken into consideration. Facial expressions are very important in reading someone's "tone". As is tone of voice, etc. You have none of that here.

And maybe some people are just not so good at expressing themselves.

To be honest, I can't think of a single person here who has posted more then a dozen times that hasn't made at least one "rude" remark. And I can think of a couple of people right off the top of my head that tend to be a bit "combative". Especially if they feel that they have been picked on in some way, shape, or form.

Putting "stickies" at the beginning of some forums to let new people know that the tone of the forum is pretty much - don't breed, don't declaw, spay/neuter, take your dog to the vet is pretty pointless in my opinion. The fact of the matter is at the beginning of the Vet forum it clearly states symptoms that should equate a trip to the vet, yet obviously many newbies don't read it as they still as what they should do about their dying pets.

I have typed many many answers to threads that I have deleted as I just couldn't think of a polite way to answer a question. Or have just gotten sooooo tired of saying the same thing over and over again.

While it is often assumed that people who post more often know more, this is not always the case. I find myself learning new things daily from the forums that I am on.

And no, I don't tell people here everything that goes on in my life. Not because I am "afraid" to, but because I don't need people who don't know me picking apart every decision that I make.

I don't know how to make the forum less "rude". If it is any consolation, it seems to be seasonal and this isn't the only forum that I belong to that has been a bit "sensitive" lately.

Writing4Fun
July 8th, 2005, 01:25 PM
I agree. I remember those two threads. The newbie of one thread left and never came back because s/he ACCIDENTALLY discovered that dogs don't like tobasco when a doggy licked his/her hand while there was some left over on there. Meanwhile, the other tobasco user was an authority in the other thread about how to deter pets from eating things around the house.
Hmmm... If I remember those threads correctly, the one person had intentionally put tobasco sauce on their hand to deter their very young puppy from biting the hand, while the other person put it on inanimate objects to deter their adult dog from chewing on them. I believe the arguements had a lot to do with the ages of the respective dogs (there was a lot of comparing the puppy to a newborn child, etc...).

I do agree, however, about the double standard. I remember that agressive dog thread and was thinking the same thing (different thread, Lucky - not the one about the hydrangeas). I think that has to do with the friendships people form here. Let's face it, it's a lot easier to give a faceless stranger your honest opinion, than it is to tell a friend that they're wrong. :o

I really, really like the idea of a "time out" or "silencer". Wonder if the mods like the idea of temporarily suspending an account if the person is getting out of hand? Again, though, there's a fine line between "moderating" and "censorship" - something that will have to be thought out thoroughly, rules put in place, etc...

Angeleyes1437
July 8th, 2005, 01:31 PM
LR, nobody wants you removed from the board- at least I do not. You've given me plenty of good advice and feedback. Additionally, I wasn't posting this to "gripe" but because I see rudeness as a major theme and/or issue on this board. Nothing to be taken personally by anyone in specific... just in general.

I felt if I was going to stick around it was something I wanted to discuss. I was actually glad when people responded and it was out in the open. Many people are intimidated by the groups that form against them on the board, and although many times it is for a good reason I feel bad when people who need to learn are chased away. I also feel that everyone should have an open mind when dealing with such a diverse (yet similar) group of people to understand where they are coming from and educate them on matters in a respectful way.

Some people simply do not know any better and it is up to us to educate them. I have learned a lot here and I think everyone has the right to get just as much if not more out of it.

Prin
July 8th, 2005, 01:55 PM
Lucky, I was referring to an older thread. Probably at least 3 months ago. Not Keeper. That thread was absurd... This one was a complete newbie who came for advice before giving up, while the regular poster had given up. They were definitely not treated equally. (but it wasn't keeper)

CyberKitten
July 8th, 2005, 02:58 PM
Gawd, do I dare post here again - am humming that song "Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood". Seriously, I am not sure about the time out thing and really dislike the idea of a "cell". It sounds a bit draconian. That said, if someone really is out of line, this is after all a moderated site and they can simply disable the account of someone who breaks the rules - ie, is very rude and nasty over a period of time, fails to observe basic common sense and decency.

In the end, I guess if someone thinks someone else is ebing rude, perhaps it is better for them to take it elsehwre - ie they can pm each other. Personally, I'd prefer to dicuss my YY and respond to questions about pets. And like Lucky says, in some cases , it is our honesty that supposedly gets us unto trouble. I do think most of us are very diplomatic in dealing with newbies. Sure there are exceptions but that is the case on any web site.

Shamrock
July 8th, 2005, 04:50 PM
Very interesting thread this is.
I voted afraid to post - in regards to the first part of the question. ( too much rudeness) I apologize if I have been rude to anyone, its so hard to know when a person may take offense.

I do feel that disparing remarks and a fear of "group condemnation" could deter members from posting on certain things, and also that it drives some newbies away, never to return.
That's a shame :sad:

This site is VERY educational and helpful - and from this many benefit. Its informative, supportive and vibrant with passion.Its "pros definitely outweight the cons, no doubt
But - I believe the "sometimes" harsh tone detracts from it overall.
Some guests may look over the forum exchanges and never join. Scared off at the starting gate.
And thats a shame too.

How to "fix" this is a difficult.. maybe impossible task. The diversity of people's personalities, their comunication skills, and their EMOTIONS on the topic all play a hand in how the written word will be presented and interpreted.
The expression.."everything looks worse in black and white" really applies to internet exchanges.
With no facial expression, no inflection of tone, no gestures to qualify the meaning, the words can easily be misintrepeted, misunderstood.

To sum up what I view as the core of the problem:
The compassion for animals is ALWAYS present here, and rightly so.
But, in some cases, the compassion for humans seems to be the sacrificial lamb in this.
And while the animals are the sole purpose of this site - the people are the lifeblood of it.


Marko, as you are asking for suggestions on how this might be addressed - my own thoughts, some of which have been covered already:

-More mods. The current mods do a fantastic job, and its a very difficult task indeed, a LOT of work for them. My hat is off to them. :thumbs up This is a VERY busy site, and they are VERY busy people.
I dont know how they do it, honestly.
I actually moderate at another forum and there is a team of six- for a site half this size. I was VERY suprised to see the small number of moderators here to handle this extremely active and large website.

- To prevent newbies from walking into a "lions dens"- a clear warning of sensitive subjects LIKELY to cause negative feedback. I know you have this now... but maybe in with the registration requirement or somewhere VERY prominent.

- Guidelines for posters on "replying' ettiquette. (Refrain from berating, etc) What IS a personal attack? A Caution to WAIT if feeling very emotional before firing off a hasty reply.
A reminder to "do unto others". Imagine you are the recipient of your own words. How would you feel? Informed, assisted?. Or lower than a snake's belly -and mad :mad: .

- Closing threads that are heading in a negative direction EARLY. Debate is great,some sensitive topics need to be covered at times. But when a thread is starting to "turn", others jump on board.. and its downhill all the way.

- Lastly, every forum has its own "tone". Once established.. its very difficult to change that, as its accepted as the status quo. But it can be gradually improved..

If its felt that too much rudeness HAS been affecting this site in a negative way.. I would say to adopt a ZERO tolerance for blatant rudeness. Encourage members to report conduct violations , issue warnings on valid infractions and temporary/ permanent suspensions as a last resort for those who refuse to comply (this is where more mods would be needed- more work!)

Once the "tone" of the board had been re-established, it will become "the norm"

Conflict and anger will erupt - no matter what forum or what topic, we all know that. We're only human, after all .People disagree, and people vocalize their disagreement.

But, I've seen pet forums shut down because nastiness gradually escalated, and spiralled out of control.

And thats a REAL shame. :sad:

Daisy's Owner
July 8th, 2005, 04:54 PM
After reading this thread and peoples opinions, I don't think there is anything that can be done to stop the rudeness. Some people obviously think it's ok to be harsh, blunt, mean, testy to the point of being rude and they don't care that over 50% of the people that answered the poll are scared to post because of it.

amber416
July 8th, 2005, 05:04 PM
Hmmm....I voted no, but i seem to be in the minority. I've never been afraid to post, but then again i've never tried to breed my dogs or let my unspayed cat out of the house. We have discussed this in other threads and my stance has always been honesty, no matter how un-sugar coated it is, should not be put in the "nasty" category, but i'm afraid it is a lot on this forum. Being overly sensitive also seems to be a recurring theme on this board and i think it us up to the individual poster who is taking time out of their day to help this person whether or not they want to cater to that or not. To me, name calling and insults are nasty and that kind of thing can be spotted by the mods fairly easily, i would imagine, and be taken care of.

I do see what a lof of you are saying, though, about double standards. That, too, irritates me. I have seen a lot of people get criticized (justifiably, usually, in my opinion) for "dumping" their animals for whatever reason but then someone that has posted on here for awhile needs to get rid of her's and all of a sudden it's "rehoming".

I don't really understand this "senior" member term that is being thrown around so much...i'm not sure who that refers to, exactly, but I do agree that the same group of people do most of the posting. However, i think everyone needs to remember that it is also these same "senior" members that are the ones helping everybody, too.

Also, on the other side of the fence, i can think of people who seem to post purely to be argumentative a lot of the time. These are the people that post in a thread, not to give advice or to help the OP but to pick apart poster's responses, play the part of the polite police, and basically just stir things up....this has happened when the OP has not been offended in the least by the responses, themself!

I find it ironic that the thread about the pregnant dog is going on at the same time as this poll. Everybody was polite in that thread....people who have posted here seemed to go out of their way with the sugar coating ;) and then there were a couple of straightforward replies. No rudeness whatsoever. However, the OP came back to say that this was the unfriendliest forum she had ever been on, excetera, excetera. My point is, we have to make sure we are looking at what is actually rude before we start throwing the label around. There will always be the people who lash out because other's do not agree with them and I think those situations far outweigh the truely nasty threads. But, i'm not saying that people who feel this board is rude a lot of the time are not justified. I can see, to some extent, where many of you are coming from.

Angeleyes1437
July 8th, 2005, 05:12 PM
Amber- I agree... and if I was breeding a mixed breed dog or letting my dog bleed to death and you all told me off... so be it! I deserve it. However, when I tell someone "I think you should ____ however I'm not too experienced and I'm sure some others that can help you will be along soon" I don't feel I should get a response that goes something like this: "I didnt post here to get responses from inexperienced people... God!".

lisa-lisa
July 8th, 2005, 05:21 PM
I had to go back and think about why I have felt afraid to post, because I voted in that category. I don't have anything to hide. I do the very best I can for my babies. And yet, I am NOT the most knowledgeable person around about animals. I call my vet constantly and visit all the time, every time I'm even slightly concerned. I wouldn't rely on a forum for medical advice until AFTER seeking the advice of my vet, which is probably what most people here would advocate. However, I have definitely felt that I wouldn't ask a question here, if I had one, in case it upset people.

(I'm sensitive, I'll admit it. I kind of think that's a good quality, as long as it doesn't become OVERsensitivity. ;) )

But I guess what has bothered me in some threads is a sense of "mob mentality". That is, someone posts a question. One person answers with some pretty straight facts that are helpful, blunt, but practical. And it seems to me that most original posters could take that. They could read that ONE response and think about the reply and information in it.

But instead, what I see happening is that after that one post, several others chime in with the exact same information, worded differently, over and over again. And that, in my opinion, makes a person feel attacked. I feel as though having one person (nicely) point out my mistake is something I could really genuinely appreciate and learn from. But having several others get in line to tell me the same thing strikes me as overkill, and unneccesary roughness. Everyone can't have the last word. :)

Safyre
July 8th, 2005, 06:26 PM
First, I have not read this entire thread, so i do not know what has been stated previously.

I feel that many ppl are so h*ll bent on their opinions, they are not willing to help others.
Innocent people, looking for answers come to this website, as they google and find it. They then get bombarded being called everything from irresponsible, to druel to a BYB or worse.
It is a lot of the long time members as well. Someone said it before, this site is very clique-ish.

Many ppl dislike me, because I don't have the same opinions. At first, I was going to run away, and not come back, after getting jumped on. But I realized that, others need help. the other ppl getting scared away need help, so i stayed for those ppl.

I like this poll! (I have edited a bit of the wording for clarity)
Personally I agree that many people are way too rude!
Please continue adding comments - and if I may suggest, please write your opinions on what you think the ADMINS should do about this.
Thanks
Marko
ADMIN

My opinion, for Marko
The moderators should be policed a bit more. They often contribute to the arguing, instead of stopping it.
Personally I'd like to see mod's that don't get involved in the conversations, just reviews them and closes if there is a problem.
The other suggestion would be to Police the older members, as they seem to cause a lot of problems. It's almost like they act as if "i've been here forever, the won't ban me, I can say anything I want"
It seems that there are a lot of ppl allowed to bicker/insult on this website, without anyone saying something to them. More mod's, with stricter rules on what they react to, might be a good idea.

I can't think of any other suggestions right now.
I do want to say, Thank you Marko, every time there is a problem brought to your attention, it is dealt with in a speedy manner.
This website, is spiraling downwards, over the past 1-2 months, and hope to see it saved from utter devastation.

melanie
July 8th, 2005, 06:47 PM
oh now come on, isnt this all a bit silly. i find it very ironioc that ppl who voted to scared to post voted and then posted, lol very ironic...


yay for LR, shes right on the nail again...

we all come from differnt societies, and in mine ppl are very straight and a spade is a spade, if you are doing something that i think is really dumb, cruel, irrisponsible or appear to have a general lack in common sense in relation to a pet i will voice that opinion, bluntly and to the point, if i think you are being cruel where is the harm in stating so????

really ppl here arent rude, its all about culture, society, who you are, your expression etc. and as far as expresion goes wel lrealyl it is a big missing item here. for instancei f someone were deaf and relied mostly on sign and their own sign expression would thay have the same expression in word use as a person who can hear and talks all day using a variety of vocal expression?????? i weonder how two posts would read from these tow parties...

i odnt think so...i also talk to you all like i talk to the rest of the world, i dont treat you differently or put on airs or a differnt personality, what you see is what you get so to speak, and what i woudl say to a person in the street i woudl happily say here.... my goodness, you should try hanging out with my german friends, boy you need a thick skin to hang with them as their expression may seem hard or rude yet they are jsut talking normally, and that is why i suppose we get along, i am thinck skinned. andi also try to understand their cultural differences...

and that the key ,we are all differnent, differnet creatures, differeing societies so we wil never have the perfect board that seems to be diesired where we all pat each other on the back daily and go all PC and crap, sopme of us are jsut not like that.. maybe stop trying to pick on ppl by mob mentality that were all rude and mean, perhaps expand that mind to accept everyones differnces and ways of communicaiton...its actually fun, and the hot stuff here can be totally amusing...

but this thread realyl does worry me alot, it makes me wonder about how many ppl cope in real life, and now im not being rude, just concerned and confused. if you cant handle a good debate on a common theme that get a little hot occassionaly i truly do worry how you go in every day life. or if you sit behind a comnputer terrified to answer from intimidation in an online forum, well it is starting to make me wonder if the net really is a good thing after all, is it destroying social skills, communication skills, confidence issues, i am really starting to wonder now,.....

and no, we are not a bunch of bullies......

Kismutt
July 8th, 2005, 06:58 PM
My opinion, for Marko
The moderators should be policed a bit more. They often contribute to the arguing, instead of stopping it.
Personally I'd like to see mod's that don't get involved in the conversations, just reviews them and closes if there is a problem.
The other suggestion would be to Police the older members, as they seem to cause a lot of problems. It's almost like they act as if "i've been here forever, the won't ban me, I can say anything I want"
It seems that there are a lot of ppl allowed to bicker/insult on this website, without anyone saying something to them. More mod's, with stricter rules on what they react to, might be a good idea.

You took the words right out of my mouth, Safyre. I am going to be brave and tell it like it is for me :)

When I first came to this forum, I had an individual immediately jump on me. I was pm'd by 3 people who said, that is a "mod", so just agree with her or you will get booted off. If you don't agree with her, just ignore her so you won't get booted off".

I thought they were joking, really. And until just recently I thought there was only 1 mod. as they post their opinion in every single thread, and would try to belittle newcomers. I had never ever seen a post by the other mods. That is the honest truth!

Well, I don't post that often, only when it is something that I can contribute to. I don't prentend to know everything about everything, because I don't. It amazed me to be honest, that a Mod. would try and belittle me when in fact they have never met me, have never been to my home, have never met my animals, have never seen my credentials, know nadda nothing about me. Unless of course, they are harboring rumors about me from someone else on this forum who also has never met me, has never been to my home etc. etc.

My thoughts are, if a mod. wants to kick me off, so be it. I really doubt my world would come to an end if I was booted off pets.ca because I didn't agree with a mod. or their friend(s).

And Safyre, I am glad you stayed. I have enjoyed your posts and many others on this forum.

babyrocky1
July 8th, 2005, 07:10 PM
I can understand members getting frustrated with byb etc. Obviously theres going to be heated opinions on those subjects, they are not the kinds of things that I have been upset by. Its when people who seemingly know one another get into it. Most of the justifications I have heard here are that the concern is for the animal. Thats just is not always the case. Lots of these arguments have nothing to do with pets!. They seem to have much more to do with egos. I think it is one thing for people to take offence at a post, a particular comment, when thats the case deal with that comment, if the comment is offensive, maybe clarify with the poster what was actually meant by the comment, but when it turns to going after the poster themselves thats when it crosses the line. And Im not commenting personally cause I havent had it happen to me. (yet) Although I have certainly been misunderstood and I have felt like I needed to defend myself. And I have definately noticed the "mob mentality that other people have mentioned.' I dont know what the mods can do about it, you cant really force people to be caring towards one another, thats up to the people themselves and what they come to the site for. I came here for some comaradatie and info cause of bill 132. Along the way I have made some wonderful friends! But the question is are you afraid to post, my answer is yes, and I think its a shame. As Lisa Lisa has said I dont have anything to hide, Im not a byb,etc,etc... Im just a very concerned pet owner who would lke to have a place to share the difficulties of what the "pit bull" owners of Ontario are going through, and developing ways to cope with and eventually end the ban, without fear of being "bullied" for unintentionally saying the wrong thing or having something Ive said taken the wrong way! I would never intentionally hurt someones feelings and I have been surprised by how cold some people on the board can be to one another! :sad:Mel i just read your post, btw never you-you crack me upLOL

Angeleyes1437
July 8th, 2005, 07:11 PM
Safrye- I agree with you. Moderators and contributors should not be allowed to treat people like s**t because of their rank. They should be the last ones making someone feel bad... especially accusing people of things! That's just unprofessional and immature!

Dragonfly
July 8th, 2005, 07:16 PM
If you have a problem with a moderator - please feel free to discuss it with that moderator, another moderator or Marko.

IMHO - it is my job as a moderator to make sure that posts don't turn into a slugfest. I have always felt that debate was good for the soul and sometimes people debate with gusto. Gusto is fine, but when it turns into a name calling bit of nastiness it has gone too far. It is not my job as a moderator to comment on things people post other then that. So, no, you don't really see much of me on here.

Angeleyes1437
July 8th, 2005, 07:24 PM
I come from the most diverse city in the world... I deal with many cultures everyday! Hell, I am from multiple backgrounds! Some cultures have different ways of communicating and sometimes it can come off as rude... however you have to take a step back and think about it. I've NEVER had a problem with someone due to miscommunication in person. I will ask nicely about an issue, or explain myself better if there is a problem.

On here I feel people get ego trips and think they can speak to others poorly because they cannot be confronted eye to eye. They can simply not respond to rude comment or say "I didn't mean anything by it". I've had people down right say horrible things about Americans... but I let it go... I do have thick skin and I understand it's a Canadian site.

When it comes down to it I have a very thick line but when someone is downright rude and crosses my line, I WILL call them on it. I am CERTAINLY not oversensitive... I am actually the complete opposite, things don't usually bother me. That is why if someone actually shines through to me as being rude, they must have said something blatantly rude. There is never a reason for that.

melanie
July 8th, 2005, 07:29 PM
actually that really wrong and downright misleading... i have disagreed with the mods on many occassions, gotten into little debates with them (even as a newbie) and never ever has a mod sauntered up to me and told me to do what they wnat or im outta here. they are normal openminded ppl, and far more so than many ppl here... realistically if your in a position wehre you think this is like an internment camp, perhaps you should stop and have a long hard think.

to say the mods bully ppl, thats total crap and another exmple of the social skills lost due to the net i mentioned before... thats jsut stupid gossip form stupideer ppl... as far as im ocncerned... this is a open pet website, not a place full of conspiracy or where marko or LR come to be bullies, for goodness sake they are doing you the favor dont forget, how much entertainment do you get for free, how much adice and friendship, dotn forget that they actually do the owrk, so lets not bash them ok...

the only person i know of getting kicked off overthe years was a total fruit loop and deserved it, there ahve been plenty of hot debates many with me involved, andi have not been kicked out either, after 2 yrs of my crap that is good and shows the tolerance levels of our mods, you must be extreme to be kicked out thats for sure (extremer than me thatis)... there are also 4 or 5 mods i think ,and you can view their profiles at any time, a bit of a look aroudn hre and you will find them watching us at diff times, and you are free to talk to them too, i certainly have many a time in the past...

and actualyl they hardly comment on most thread, just those that personally touch them and they like you are welcome to.... and please dont try to hide who you speak of, its LR you speak of and i can tell you now she s very straight to the point, she is a busy lady who gives her precious time to help out here, she often gives short, sweet answers, if you cant handle the bluntness of her comments well i think your taking it to heart a little too much...and i doubt she has the time to coddle anyone...she is busy dealing with the many abused and dumped animals, how can you not understand her horror and frustration...

if a psot is really stupid or posted by an arrogant idiot she has evry right just like you and me to oppose or give opinion that person, and in two years she has enver ever stepped over the line as far as im concerned, what did she say, i bet it was something like yoru a bad pet owner, so what, she was assessing a situation for the fact presented her. she didnt insult your mother, husband ,children or even you really, boy jsut get over it the lot of yas, toughen up and it may jsut help you in your lives, cause i cant see how any one is morrally and mortally offended by anything that is said on a pet site.....

and when i have over stepped the mark myself LR is usually the one to remove my comment, pull me into line and give me a bit of a virtual whack on the hand, she has actually saved ppl form what may seem my scathing comments in the past, she is trying as hard as she can. and she does it well, i consider her a friend here, and yet if i do something wrong i take her growling out happily, she does it professionaslly with no malice intended, nad does it in such a way that i get over it in secounds anyway (usually a tantrum in there somewhere, poor LR sees it all im afraid,marko also, lol poor guys)

so from the above description i do nto see how she is possibly biased, rude or a bully, perhaps you should do a bit of research into her, its very interesting..... and as you know i have been here for years, and i can assure you no preference or special treatment is reserved for older members, i tell you this from experience and many a virtual whack on the backside....

but truly i am concerned here about social skills and communication, perhaps society needs to reassess the use of the net and its acceptance throught society..... please for your own good, toughen up, i beg you it can only help you in life is all im saying......and can only help assist our changing societies.....

Angeleyes1437
July 8th, 2005, 07:36 PM
Personally, I don't like scaring people away- but being blunt and honest with people that don't know about something I don't find offending. I think I pretty much explained what I found offending. I personally don't know if that person meant LR or not- regardless I don't think it's a big deal.

I never thought twice about posting an opposing opinion to a mod... not sure if I ever had to- but I wouldn't worry about it. I haven't gotten that idea from this site. I was just talking about straight out rudeness that makes you not want to deal with this place. I also don't think you need to call people stupid... they have a right to their opinions.

I think someone on here put it best. When someone lists why (for example) another person shouldn't breed their dog... only add to it, we shouldn't repeat it in nastier ways. Sometimes people DO feel like they are getting ganged up on... and then they never return!

Katze
July 8th, 2005, 07:40 PM
I have never had a problem here, and actually appreciate the straight forward practical knowledge offered by some of the members on this board. I don't think I have ever seen things get heated on here until an O.P has shown by his/her responses to the input of others that he/she is not really interested in doing things right in regard to a "beloved" pet's care, and that his/her own ego and psychopathologies dictate how the pet will be cared for.
Some people on this board seem to suffer from the pet owner version of Munchausen by proxy disease. They post something about a pet, (often a long suffering pet) in the hope, not of getting advice to help the animal, but in order to gain attention for themselves. They expect people to offer a shoulder to cry on, a pat on the back and a "there there now now". And this after revealing through their posts a strange and irrational resistance to other's expressions of concern for the animal. It is like they resent others paying more attention to the pet than to them ! I think this is the point where things get heated- after all attempts at help and council are rejected for no reason.

Angeleyes1437
July 8th, 2005, 07:40 PM
If you have a problem with a moderator - please feel free to discuss it with that moderator, another moderator or Marko.

IMHO - it is my job as a moderator to make sure that posts don't turn into a slugfest. I have always felt that debate was good for the soul and sometimes people debate with gusto. Gusto is fine, but when it turns into a name calling bit of nastiness it has gone too far. It is not my job as a moderator to comment on things people post other then that. So, no, you don't really see much of me on here.

When mods do come on I don't think they should try to downplay people. I think they should either respond in a helping manner to educate or close the thread... thats about it!

mona_b
July 8th, 2005, 07:42 PM
If bluntness and honesty are seen as rude, that cannot be helped. Name calling and personal insults are definitely discouraged and are against the rules.

If someone comes here asking for help with a problem and wants advice and is going to at least consider that advice, that's fine.

When someone comes with an animal who is sick, suffering or dying and gets angry when told to take it to the vet and flatly refuses to do so, then I think someone needs to be blunt with them.

If I get a little testy when seeing the 100th+ post saying "My cat is pregnant" well I am not apologizing for it.

If someone is breeding his/her puppy, and even after being told all the downsides to it still says "Well, I want puppies" then again, some plain speaking is needed.

Someone says, "My cat is bleeding so I put it outside cause it's unsanitary" all I can think of is that animal in pain, so sorry if I don't pick and choose my words.

Sorry, but trying to help a suffering animal takes precedence over not wanting to hurt someone's feelings. People can take themselves to doctors, animals must suffer in silence if no one will help them.

I have to agree with this 100%.

And I also have to agree 100% with what melanie said.

Am I afraid to post?Heck no.And I will definately not watch my P's and Q's in certain situations.The situations I am talking about are what LR posted.And if someone comes on here asking about what to do with their VERY sick,bleeding,heavy breathing/not quite breathing,seriously injured cat/dog,and we ALL suggest that they take it to the vets ASAP,how is that considered attacking them?If we are all saying the same thing,then wouldn't you take the hint that this animal need attention ASAP?I would not take it as them attacking me.I would take is as very good advise and do it.Quite some time ago(some may remember)a guy came on here stating his Rottie was VERY sick,and hadn't eaten for a few days.Well we begged him to take the dog to the vet.This took about 2 days of actual arguing.Well guess what,after the third day he finaly did,and when he came back on,it was not good news.His dog died at the vets.Could this have been prevented?Maybe maybe not.But the fact is don't argue with us when we say your animal needs to see a vet ASAP.And don't think you are being attacked whe 7 people tell you this.This is just us stating what needs to be done.Or how about when we give advise and then WE are attacked for no reason?Am I going to shut my mouth?Heck no.Will I defend the person who is being attacked?Heck yes.And I have done it many times.And I too have had pm's from people thanking me for their help.And for me coming to their defence.

Am I "rude" at times?No,just honest with my feelings and opinions.Especially when it comes to animals in distress.

Angeleyes1437
July 8th, 2005, 07:44 PM
I have to agree with this 100%.

And I also have to agree 100% with what melanie said.

Am I afraid to post?Heck no.And I will definately not watch my P's and Q's in certain situations.The situations I am talking about are what LR posted.And if someone comes on here asking about what to do with their VERY sick,bleeding,heavy breathing/not quite breathing,seriously injured cat/dog,and we ALL suggest that they take it to the vets ASAP,how is that considered attacking them?If we are all saying the same thing,then wouldn't you take the hint that this animal need attention ASAP?I would not take it as them attacking me.I would take is as very good advise and do it.Quite some time ago(some may remember)a guy came on here stating his Rottie was VERY sick,and hadn't eaten for a few days.Well we begged him to take the dog to the vet.This took about 2 days of actual arguing.Well guess what,after the third day he finaly did,and when he came back on,it was not good news.His dog died at the vets.Could this have been prevented?Maybe maybe not.But the fact is don't argue with us when we say your animal needs to see a vet ASAP.And don't think you are being attacked whe 7 people tell you this.This is just us stating what needs to be done.Or how about when we give advise and then WE are attacked for no reason?Am I going to shut my mouth?Heck no.Will I defend the person who is being attacked?Heck yes.And I have done it many times.And I too have had pm's from people thanking me for their help.And for me coming to their defence.

Am I "rude" at times?No,just honest with my feelings and opinions.Especially when it comes to animals in distress.

Situations like this are not was I had in mind when I created this thread. I agree. I am talking about rudeness... not being blunt. I would say the SAME thing in a case like that. I don't want to be repetitive... I aleady posted examples of what I mean... check those out. Thanks :angel:

Cactus Flower
July 8th, 2005, 07:49 PM
I don't think it's fair to call people being afraid to post "silly", or to tell them that they need to be more like you . We know that you're tough, Mel :D . But "toughen up" really isn't the answer, in my opinion.
If people genuinely are offended by/hurt by much of what goes on here, and enough people are agreeing that this happens (see the poll), then I consider it a legitimate complaint. It isn't just one person saying this, it is many. And their observations deserve as much merit as yours do, of course.

but this thread realyl does worry me alot, it makes me wonder about how many ppl cope in real life, and now im not being rude, just concerned and confused. if you cant handle a good debate on a common theme that get a little hot occassionaly i truly do worry how you go in every day life. or if you sit behind a comnputer terrified to answer from intimidation in an online forum
I know a few people who have left this board because of the aforementioned complaints, and they are more than able to handle "everyday life", etc. They do not sit behind a computer terrified to answer. But some have NOT gotten help for their situation (from here) because they didn't want to deal with the onslaught of judgment and criticism that they came to expect.

Mel, I love ya! But I really do think that these complaints deserve to be addressed, whether they have to do with rudeness, mods or just the general "feel" of this board.

mona_b
July 8th, 2005, 07:52 PM
I don't want to be repetitive... I aleady posted examples of what I mean... check those out. Thanks :angel:

Ummm sorry,but since I have just finished doing a 12 hour night shift this week,I'm still a bit tired.So I have been going through the 5 pages of this post as best I can....Thanks.... :)

melanie
July 8th, 2005, 07:52 PM
and lets go aroudn in a circle again :eek: ,

QUOTE" I also don't think you need to call people stupid... they have a right to their opinions.'

oh man
i did not call anybody stupid, i used that expression as a way of generalising the stupid or silly psots, and see heres the problem...your way too oversensitive and that should not be our fault but something personal for you to deal with.

i refer to something in generalisation, i use the word stupid as a description of someones actions, and event, abuse, idea. so are you saying the word stupid is not usable anymore as a descriptive tool.... also it does nto referto your intellegence levels, your mental state but in general refers to the topic or ideas of the thread....

now i really do find that totalyl over sensitive and jsut plain silly.i also think this is a bit of a bully thread, some of the responses make us look like a bunch of ogres, is this a tactic for trying to gain attention or supprot for changes to what the individual so desires, not the group as a whole... and also i see why ppl get rude, many ppl here seem to be very frustrating due to thier inabilty to be flexible, consider the other side, open their minds or evne act normal instead of all sensitive and hurt, good ness me its a dgo site ppl please..... have you ever heard of negative attention?? im not saying this is it but it does seem like it to me...

add on you ppl are too fast-

as far as toughening up thats jsut an expression but im sure you know whati mean, no i find this topic worrisome, really if yo u get mortified and morral insulted o n a dog site then really i reckon reassessment is in order, truly its a worry for me and i am not being mean, just concerned for the reason of this thread.... also jsut because 20 ppl complain out of thousand does not mean its an issue, i have not heard most (have seen some)before so if it was so important why is it only brought up now and why so few ppl if it was a real problem......

and yes i realyl do think ppl are toooooo sensitive and dont consider differences, but it worries me in the sence of mental stabilty here and depression and mental illness, if ppl are saying they cant handle a heated versation or site, and find it so upsetting, i personally see that as very odd and quite worrisome..... certainly something that deserves further consideration from the individules....

luvs ya too babe, and no i dont want anyone to agree with me, howwww boooooooooring and i luuuuuvvvvv to argue with anyone its fun and enlightening, BRING IT ONNNNNNN........

Angeleyes1437
July 8th, 2005, 08:07 PM
[QUOTE]your way too oversensitive and that should not be our fault but something personal for you to deal with.

See, calling me oversensitive is ridiculous. I wasn't even stating that for myself... it seemed like you knew of a specific situation and were calling people a group of people stupid. I was just saying you could have handled it differently... which doesn't make me the oversensitive one.

luvs ya too babe, and no i dont want anyone to agree with me, howwww boooooooooring and i luuuuuvvvvv to argue with anyone its fun and enlightening, BRING IT ONNNNNNN........

Something like this shows that this board has no hope. Why would you enjoy arguing with someone?? People are speaking about their feelings and you are telling them to toughen up... it will improve their lives. I have no problem with my life, and personally I am tough enough, thank you. I didn't post this for myself personally- but EVERYONE who feels that people on this board are way too rude (which is a lot of people). Don't get me wrong I've encountered a good amount of posts that were down right wrong- but trust me I would never let this board interfere with my life!

Copper'sMom
July 8th, 2005, 09:12 PM
Just my two cents here!!
From personal experience here, I know what it is like to be taken the wrong way! People tell me it's in my tone of voice(which I was totally unaware of)! I try to pay more attention to my tone of voice, but sometimes it still doesn't help!
Now obviously on this board, we don't know most of these people's voices because we only type back and forth. So we interpret the words on the screen into the persona that we think that person has. Do I make any sense?? lol

Example#1 - Eleni - to ME, I read her posts and the persona I get from her is the way she types, I imagine if she were talking to me face to face it would be in a monotone form. She never gets mad, always keeps her cool :cool: . This is how I interpret eleni.
Example #2 - Schwinn - Well we all know he's a smart a** LOL :D We all love him!! ok bad example ;)
Example #3 - Princess04 - to ME, a very sweet and caring and loving person who giggles alot! A very kind hearted and sincere person.

Ok, I really wonder if people understand what I'M getting at!! :confused: This is the first forum I had ever been on. I had no idea how they worked!!! I just signed up and started giving help advice(then I started to learn how little I actually knew)!! So, I often wonder, with alot of NEWBIES, do they know how it works?? I never read the Sticky's - I didn't know what they were! I just figured they said "no swearing, no porn, no illegal activity yada yada yada!"
But yes, some newbies might think they will get immediate miracle responses to their pet's health problems if they post here. So I can understand where they are coming from - sort of. I'm not afraid to spend money(necessary or unnecessary)on my pets so I wouldn't post "What can I do, My dog's almost dead, I can't afford a vet."
Ok that's all for now, i have some catching up to do!

And yes, I have taken WORDS the wrong way before and posted things I shouldn't have! So Again, I'm sorry!!

Luba
July 8th, 2005, 09:49 PM
Mel's my dear friend you've had to many to drink or you're typing cross eyed again! You're about as thirsty for a rumble as a dingo during a drout.

I LUV YA MEL!! BTW you maketh so much senseth I cannot helpeth but agreeth with you'eth.

:D

Cactus Flower
July 8th, 2005, 10:05 PM
Mel, you are a hoot! May I use you as an example? See, people that have been here a long time know that Mel is fiesty in a playful way- not in a mean or hateful way. That doesn't mean her points are not to be taken seriously, don't get me wrong. She has opinions, obviously, and is entitled to them. But those who have been here a while have had the opportunity to really understand the true TONE she intends.

Now if she was brand new to this site, we'd all be scratching our heads, not knowing how to take what she wrote- or we'd be taking it as inflammatory.

Angel, please don't take this as an insult, but you might not realize that Mel really isn't coming here to argue like a TROLL would come here to argue. You know what I mean? I bet if you were sitting across from her when she made some of these statements, you would at least laugh at the delivery.

My point is, maybe there is a lot of misunderstanding in this regard. The members who have been here a while "know" how to take other members' posts, and they might not realize how they come across to a new member. Maybe we lose a bit of sight in our familiarity with one another.

Just a thought.

Rainy
July 8th, 2005, 10:25 PM
Amber- I agree... and if I was breeding a mixed breed dog or letting my dog bleed to death and you all told me off... so be it! I deserve it. However, when I tell someone "I think you should ____ however I'm not too experienced and I'm sure some others that can help you will be along soon" I don't feel I should get a response that goes something like this: "I didnt post here to get responses from inexperienced people... God!".
A link to my thread would have kept people out of the dark and then they would know what the basis of your poll is for.You were and still are obviously ticked off.
Smokey is fixed,and gets outside every chance he gets.With 2 (human) boys running in/out all day Smokey escapes a minimum of a dozen times a day.I run after him every time and so far have managed to get him without fail but.....
He's fast! Becoming faster with every opportunity and now he's starting to hiss at me when i'm picking him up to bring in the house.So far just this morning he's escaped 3 times.All in a 15 minute span! The last time I was bringing him in he hissed and tried to twist his body to bite me! He was really ticked off that I won't let him out!
Should I buy a collar and leash? What kinds if any have worked best for you?Length? Should I only let him on a leash with me holding it or should it be tethered? I have no idea!Growing up my parents let our cat outside to run free.Not ever going to happen with my pets.HELP please!

You replied with this:
In my opinion nobody should even own a dog or cat without a collar- even if you keep it off in the house every time he goes out be sure he has it on. As for a leash for a cat, that depends on you. I would definitely say walk him with with you like Jessie said.

Do you have a gated yard or somewhere Smokey has been going out? Can you teach a perimeter to cats? I'm not sure as I haven't owned (or been owned) by a cat since I was a child. Additionally, teach your kids not to let him out unless you feel he is ready for it- that dangerous for your cat. As for him hissing when you pick him up... I really don't know what is normal or not... more knowledgable people on this topic will definitely come along.
I took offense to your first line.It wasn't helpful.It insinuated that I willingly let my cat out!Second paragraph from you,the fourth sentence your speaking to me like i'm an idiot! Maybe that's not how you meant to come across but to me that's exactly what you did do.It was insulting. Of course my children know better than to let the cat out.They are children!They run in/out of the house easily 50 times a day.Not all 50 times does the cat manage to run by them. Your fifth sentence your addressing what? I already knew why he was hissing.I said so in my post!
I then retaliated with this:

I post here for tips from experienced cat owners with info on harnesses and leashes.What part of "he escapes" did you not understand?Smokey is not LET out of the house.
When I give advise to someone it's because I have experience with thier scenario,if I don't then I read another post.I also reread the questions or pleas for advise before answering.It helps....nevermind,I just remembered why I rarely post...

twinmommy
July 8th, 2005, 10:25 PM
Mel, you are a hoot! May I use you as an example

That's pretty funny CF, I ws thinking of using her as the same example, but to make the opposite point.

I think that some people, like Mel, are just better at "internese" and that we get the tone of their smart arsy, not-out -to -get-anyone posts. Others go for the jugular.....and should mince their words a bit....just a bit ;)

LR, I realize that you are knee deep in rescue, doing a fantasic job, and have had your fill of idiots long ago, but try to remember that the OP is often posting for the FIRST (and last!) time.

Could we not see the bigger picture here of just being nicer? Try to compare it to our own medical system. No one thinks twice about being nice to a nurse so that our loved one gets good care at the hospital.

And yet, here we find it so hard because these OP's are so ignorant, it's easier just to blow off steam and, hey, the pet was going to die anyway right?

I know it's frustrating, I'm not trying to condone what happens, I'm just suggesting an alternate way to deal.

And CK!! Get your long-winded-posting-butt back here!!!

WE LOVE YA AND YOU BETTER COME BACK!!! :cool: ;) :grouphug: :love:

Angeleyes1437
July 8th, 2005, 10:41 PM
Angel, please don't take this as an insult, but you might not realize that Mel really isn't coming here to argue like a TROLL would come here to argue. You know what I mean? I bet if you were sitting across from her when she made some of these statements, you would at least laugh at the delivery.


I totally respect that... I just didn't want to see anyone else get jumped on. I've read Mel's posts and she is usually funny and sarcastic... which I like. I was just unsure about that post, and considering what's been going on here lately I felt I had to post it... sorry if I misunderstood you mel.

Angeleyes1437
July 8th, 2005, 10:49 PM
Rainy... you DEFINITELY misunderstood my post- in no way was I talking to you like you were an idiot. I was simply giving you MY opinion of what to do. A lot of people don't have collars for their cats, so I was saying in my opinion you should... just incase the cat got out and was found by somone else, they would know it had a home and where that home is. I was upset with the way you responded, but you could have defended yourself nicely if you thought I was being rude and I would have explained that I wasn't immediately.

Your post is not what caused me to create this post, however it was my last straw. Particularly because I did not feel I was treating you like an idiot. I even put smiley faces so you would know that. I always put smiley faces when I give advice I feel can be taken the wrong way... just so the OP knows.

I am NOT extremely knowledgable with cats (although I had one as a child and deal with them at the Brooklyn Animal Care and Control) so I figured I would give you what I could. I know whenever I post I love to get responses... regardless of how experienced the person is- it's just nice to get an answer. You know? So I was hurt by the way you responded because I truly thought I was being nice, and apparently so did the others on the board.

If you misunderstood me hopefully this will clear it up!

Safyre
July 8th, 2005, 10:58 PM
Angeleyes - Don't feel bad, I never know how to take Mel, angry or sarcastic, so I respond the best I can to try to get more info to read into for tone! lol

Rainy
July 8th, 2005, 11:12 PM
It's all good with me Angeleyes.
I do apologize for the tone of that post to you.

Writing4Fun
July 8th, 2005, 11:13 PM
OK, so what I'm gathering from this post is...

If you (the generic "you", not anyone here personally ;) ) feel you've been insulted, there are two scenarios present:
A) The poster didn't intend to insult you, in which case a simple PM saying, "I was hurt by that comment, can you clarify your meaning for me please?" would be in order, and a reply to the effect of "Aw, geez, sorry, that's not what I meant..." would suffice. This will eliminate everyone "defending" one-another, being called "hyper-sensitive", etc...
Or
B) The poster did intend to insult you, in which case an e-mail or PM to a moderator should take care of the matter.

'Cause ya know what? Back-and-forth bickering and the "he said/she said" that's been going on lately results in nothing but side-taking and closed threads (not to mention an over-loaded server because of all the quoting going on! :eek: ). Yes, I realize I'm as guilty as the next person. And I apologize to everyone for it. I, too, love a good debate, not to be confused with an arguement, which is what a lot of these debates descend into.

Truce? :o

Angeleyes1437
July 8th, 2005, 11:14 PM
It's all good with me Angeleyes.
I do apologize for the tone of that post to you.

Sorry about my incoherent post, lol... I read it over and was like "I didn't even make sense! I am rambling!"... I could have wrote such a better post if I wasn't half asleep and working! Thanks Rainy... I'm sorry too if I came off mean. :)

Sneaky2006
July 8th, 2005, 11:15 PM
Awww! Look at all the nice people. :love:

CyberKitten
July 8th, 2005, 11:19 PM
Gosh Sneaky, great minds and all that, lol I am not sure the intent was for all of us to become embroiled yet again in controversy.

And Twinmommy, you mean my tired whiny butt don't ya? lol Sorry to have been so longwinded (It's either an occupational hazard or I need to learn to edit, hehheh!).

Angeleyes1437
July 8th, 2005, 11:21 PM
LOL, truce... we are all nice people! Until another newbie comes, lol. j/k

Maximus is watches me post now and again... just now he turned to me and was like "Mom, just tell everyone to give each other a "booty rub" and it'll all be solved!" .... unless I'm hallucinating again. lol... if only dogs ruled the world! It would all be so simple!

babyrocky1
July 8th, 2005, 11:28 PM
Alls well that ends well...LOL and its time for me to leave work and go home...great timing for a peaceful and happy ending....Have a great weekend everyone :) :grouphug: :highfive: Everyone who can please come to the rally at Queens park on August 28th. Youll hear more later!

twinmommy
July 8th, 2005, 11:35 PM
CK--NAH!! Don't change!! We love ya just the way y'are. :D

I think, in retrospect, this board is a sub-culture like any other in that we are all different walks of life here.

Just a weird thought....must be the late hour...

Do you think our pets would treat each other the same way as we do if THEY posted? Would they bicker with each other, or happily pat each other on the back for getting through yet another day?

I'll just leave it at that.... ;)

Sneaky2006
July 8th, 2005, 11:40 PM
Just a weird thought....must be the late hour...
Do you think our pets would treat each other the same way as we do if THEY posted? Would they bicker with each other, or happily pat each other on the back for getting through yet another day?
It MUST be the hour because I am picturing them saying "Get that human to the Doctor, ASAP, and take a stool sample!"

Aye, I need to sleep. ;)

Angeleyes1437
July 8th, 2005, 11:44 PM
CK--NAH!! Don't change!! We love ya just the way y'are. :D

I think, in retrospect, this board is a sub-culture like any other in that we are all different walks of life here.

Just a weird thought....must be the late hour...

Do you think our pets would treat each other the same way as we do if THEY posted? Would they bicker with each other, or happily pat each other on the back for getting through yet another day?

I'll just leave it at that.... ;)

I think they would be asking questions like "What does your tail smell like?". It would be like the KitKat club in here!! :)

I think if Maximus had opposable thumbs he would learn how to post... he learns how to do WAY too many things for his own good. I would never get a turn on the PC. :pawprint: :pawprint:

Angeleyes1437
July 8th, 2005, 11:45 PM
It MUST be the hour because I am picturing them saying "Get that human to the Doctor, ASAP, and take a stool sample!"

Aye, I need to sleep. ;)

ROFL... that I can see! LOL... they would be like "they ate BEANS?!!! You NEVER let a HUMAN eat BEANS!!! Are you stupid?"

Kismutt
July 8th, 2005, 11:48 PM
I don't mean to hijack a thread, but can anyone do a poll? Do we email it to admin?

Sneaky2006
July 8th, 2005, 11:50 PM
I've never done one, but I think anyone can do it.

Sneaky2006
July 8th, 2005, 11:51 PM
ROFL... that I can see! LOL... they would be like "they ate BEANS?!!! You NEVER let a HUMAN eat BEANS!!! Are you stupid?"Haha, my cats would be posting about my husband doing just that!

twinmommy
July 8th, 2005, 11:52 PM
"they ate BEANS?!!! You NEVER let a HUMAN eat BEANS!!! Are you stupid?" http://bestsmileys.com/lol/6.gif

Angeleyes1437
July 8th, 2005, 11:55 PM
I don't mean to hijack a thread, but can anyone do a poll? Do we email it to admin?

When you create a new thread you just hit the check box and put in the number of options you want (default is 4). Submit your post and the following screen will include the poll info.

:angel:

Kismutt
July 8th, 2005, 11:59 PM
Thanks guys. Maybe another day. I have been wanting to do one for a while, but didn't know how to go about it. Good night all!

glasslass
July 9th, 2005, 12:01 AM
Mel, you are a hoot! May I use you as an example? See, people that have been here a long time know that Mel is fiesty in a playful way- not in a mean or hateful way. That doesn't mean her points are not to be taken seriously, don't get me wrong. She has opinions, obviously, and is entitled to them. But those who have been here a while have had the opportunity to really understand the true TONE she intends.

Now if she was brand new to this site, we'd all be scratching our heads, not knowing how to take what she wrote- or we'd be taking it as inflammatory.

Angel, please don't take this as an insult, but you might not realize that Mel really isn't coming here to argue like a TROLL would come here to argue. You know what I mean? I bet if you were sitting across from her when she made some of these statements, you would at least laugh at the delivery.

My point is, maybe there is a lot of misunderstanding in this regard. The members who have been here a while "know" how to take other members' posts, and they might not realize how they come across to a new member. Maybe we lose a bit of sight in our familiarity with one another.

Just a thought.

I'll never forget my intro to Mel when I was the Newbie - her infamous thread about the meaning of "cheeky". Luv ya too, Mel!

Angeleyes1437
July 9th, 2005, 12:21 AM
I'll never forget my intro to Mel when I was the Newbie - her infamous thread about the meaning of "cheeky". Luv ya too, Mel!


I just looked that up after your post... I almost peed myself!! :p

Golden Girls
July 9th, 2005, 12:29 AM
Marko:

I didn't vote as I didn't fit in any category. "don't post much because I don't have the time to argue/defend or get annoyed with a few "know it all members"...

This site is very helpful and one can learn alot as I have just by reading other people's opinions, beliefs and expertise but at the same time there is way too much rudeness here. I have to totally agree with both Safyre and Kismut "there is long time members..."

I also agree that mod's shouldn't get involved in conversations as it tends to bait "followers'

CyberKitten
July 9th, 2005, 05:12 AM
It is early AM here and I am not quite awake but thinking of if our pets administered and participated in the site - I have visions of a border collie trying to herd cats and my YY (a Siamese diva if there ever was one) would be yowling, no DEMANDING that the collies get a life and let her continue to do what she wants to do. LR's Cloe would be asking how she can get rid of that bonnet her human is so taken with. Princess's adorable poodles would want to play. Twinmommy's cats would be writing a thread on how to survive small twin humans and explaining that concept to the other critters. And they would end up purring and writing that no hissing is allowed, everyone should play nice. And when a kitty comes up who is pregnant with an unwanted pregnancy, the other female kitties would be advising them on planned parenthood or better yet, NO parenthood.

There would also be a category on Best Vets with subcategories listing vets by Best Treats, Most Gentle hands, Clinics that are warm (sphynx and Siamese especially would start this one - they deplore the cold), Best Bedside manner and Most competent in a crisis, most competent for neutering (All the young male kittens would have strong opinions on this subject. ;)

One of the most fav categories would be How to handle humans. A typical post might be "I managed to sneak out of the house and get my human a special treat for her birthday. I was so excited and could barely wait to show it to her. But she shrieked when I presented her with the most beautiful mouse. I can't imagine what I did wrong. Has anyone else had this experience? Are all humans this emotional or do I just have one that needs help. Anyone know a good psychiatrist?"

Or one of the golden labs will write about how she was walking her human and she is "still having trouble training this woman not to stop and chat so much with other humans. Any ideas on how to make sure you get to where you want to and spend MOST the time playing and running. Do others have the same issues trying to your their human?"

Or YY would have written when the Sphynx first came in to ask how she can figure out what that human of hers is up to NOW. "Has anyone else had a human come home and think she's sneaking in two cats? Like she thinks I am not aware of everything that goes on in MY house! And I hate to be rude to these interlopers but they have no fur!!! Any of you kitties out there ever see that before? Are they sick? The smell funny and how do I tell them they lost their fur? Can I help them get it back? Do I want to?

Anyway, so much for my silliness. I think I will rest for a bit before getting up for good, lol

On a serious note, I am almost afraid to post what I think on this thread. Almost! Angel, what do you mean by "downplay people"? And re: "Something like this shows that this board has no hope. Why would you enjoy arguing with someone??"

Many people enjoy arguing tho we call it debating or in severe cases, politics. In my family, we argue about everything so do we have no hope? I suspect we'd all beg to differ - we like to argue and you would not survive if you did not.

My niece tonite - who is an undergraduate at McGill used THAT term tonite in the same way I did so Prin,(You're at McGill right?) you have to have heard it used in that manner. We laughed at her which was the point. She was amazed , like me, that someone would take it the wrong way.

Anyway, that is enough of my long winded self for this AM! Have a great day everyone. Hug your pet(s) before you do anything. And maybe give them time on the keyboard. :crazy:

mona_b
July 9th, 2005, 10:07 AM
but truly i am concerned here about social skills and communication, perhaps society needs to reassess the use of the net and its acceptance throught society..... please for your own good, toughen up, i beg you it can only help you in life is all im saying......and can only help assist our changing societies.....

I honestly have to agree with this.And the rest of what Mel said.I just didn't want to quote the whole page....LOL

In the "real" world there are different debates and opinions.And I deal with it EVERYDAY.Either it be at home with my family,or at work with my co-workers.Do I watch my P's and Q's as to not "hurt" someones feelings?It depends on the situation.With me I say it like it is.Maybe it has to do with my job.I remember when I had to train a guy who just graduated from Police Collage.Now you think a Rookie like that would listen to me.Heck no.Can you believe HE was telling ME how to do MY job?A job that I was doing for 10 years(at the time of training him).We butted heads from the begining.It got to the point where I just had enough of him.I was tired of the heated debates we were having.It got to the point were I was close to decking him.This Rookie actually went and whinned and complained to my Sarge.I was pulled into the office and gave the third degree.I said to him are you finished.Then told him what was really happenening.I also told him to find someone else to train him cause I had enough.And trust me,Mr Know it all Rookie was put in his place by someone else..... :D

What I am trying to say is that we all have different views and opinions.Heck,I hear my 18 year old daughter having them with her friends.And yes with me also.And that's good.I want her to voice her opinions and thoughts.Yes to a point also.Has it toughened her up?Yup,it has.And that's good.Why?Cause this is the "real" world and she has to learn.I can't keep her in a bubble forever.I can't protect her forever.She is an adult now.

As for the Mods and Marko,I think they do a great job.They do not take sides.And if someone gets out of hand,they will speak up.I do remember quite some time ago when I got an email telling me to cool it.So if anyone on here thinks that they won't say something to you personally,think again.They do.And I think that great.If something gets out of hand and they thing the thread needs closing,they will close it.They have the smarts to know when it should or should not be done.And I have never had a problem with any of them.

K,that's my rant..... :)

happycats
July 9th, 2005, 10:55 AM
I didn't vote, because there really wasn't a choice that fit, that being said, I think basically most people here are good people who truly love their pets (that's why they come here) :) .

I do think "some" are a little more "nasty" then others, and get angry and start insulting and attacking , when people don't agree with them!

But I still feel the majority of people here, can give it as well as they take it, and it is an public forum and everyone has a right to their opinion.

I don't however feel that anyone has right to attack or insult a person just beause they do not agree with an opinion.

Like the old saying goes, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all"! ;)

Prin
July 9th, 2005, 11:42 AM
My niece tonite - who is an undergraduate at McGill used THAT term tonite in the same way I did so Prin,(You're at McGill right?) you have to have heard it used in that manner. We laughed at her which was the point. She was amazed , like me, that someone would take it the wrong way. No I haven't heard undergrad used like that. I'm not at McGill, but where I come from, being an undergrad means you're more educated than most, not that you're a young person with no cooth. Maybe the students at your university are all young, but I know the mature student program at Concordia is very developed so there are many, many older students around. It is insulting to equate being an undergrad with immaturity. It is degrading to the rest of us who take our studies very seriously and take pride in our work.

Writing informally, with poor spelling or with poor grammar is not something you do because you are young, or because you are an undergrad. It's something you do either because the situation is lax or because you are lazy (in the case of your students who present cruddy work). Please don't befowl a positive term, such as "undergrad", by using it in a condescending context. That's all I'm saying.

Angeleyes1437
July 9th, 2005, 12:00 PM
On a serious note, I am almost afraid to post what I think on this thread. Almost! Angel, what do you mean by "downplay people"? And re: "Something like this shows that this board has no hope. Why would you enjoy arguing with someone??"

Many people enjoy arguing tho we call it debating or in severe cases, politics. In my family, we argue about everything so do we have no hope? I suspect we'd all beg to differ - we like to argue and you would not survive if you did not.

CK- I thought this was over with already. We straightened out the comments with Mel if you failed to read it. I am always down for a good debate... I clearly stated that I've heard from plenty of people that they were "scared to post"... which obviously I am NOT. I've seen plenty of rudeness- not debating on this site which is why I started this thread. Can you let it go or will we continue? I really don't see why this should be started up again!

And I am saying this in a nice (NOT rude way)... I'm just responding to your post :)

CyberKitten
July 9th, 2005, 02:46 PM
Just wondered what downplay meant? I guess I am a not too swift Maritimer, sue me, lol No wait, I take that back.

Prin, point taken. I know how upset I get when ppl use the certain less than pc terms here and I express my opinion on that. I am not sure we we use it that way here - no clue as to the origin but I think it was undergards - most of whom may have been young at the time - laughing at themselves. I won't use it here and I am sorry it it offends you.

Actually, all of my students are older since many of them are already MD's but they do tend to be in their 20's. We have mature students too but I think smaller universities like Concordia prob work with mature students better and more easily. That said, even some of the nbewly minted MD's now enrolled in residency programs here cannot write well, imho!! (and it seems to get worse every yr. Some of my colleagues blame the net. I do not think that is the only problem and actually while acronyms may be here to stay, I doubt the net is a prob!)

Anyway, I am sooo off topic, lol

Angeleyes1437
July 9th, 2005, 02:56 PM
Just wondered what downplay meant? I guess I am a not too swift Maritimer, sue me, lol No wait, I take that back.

You don't know what downplay means??????????????? You can look it up in the dictionary but it means "to play down" or "de-emphasize".

goldenblaze
July 9th, 2005, 03:24 PM
Marko:

I didn't vote as I didn't fit in any category. "don't post much because I don't have the time to argue/defend or get annoyed with a few "know it all members"...

This site is very helpful and one can learn alot as I have just by reading other people's opinions, beliefs and expertise but at the same time there is way too much rudeness here. I have to totally agree with both Safyre and Kismut "there is long time members..."

I also agree that mod's shouldn't get involved in conversations as it tends to bait "followers'

Well said GoldenGirls , I've read everything other's have wrote we all have our own opinions. I'm ready to be jumped on over what I am going to say but oh well here it is. I feel mod's should not be so rude to some people, I feel they make a point of reading some peoples answers only to disagree with that person no matter what their answer is very sad and yes theirs friends follow!


I love animals myself and treat my dogs very well, but I don't run to the Vet with every little thing that happens.
People here are telling others to see a Vet, yes sometimes it's needed but come on it seems to be said for every little thing people ask. They might come for help as they can't pay a Vet bill and OMG they are now bad pet owners.

They didn't drop the pet off at the HS, they are asking for help and get rudeness instead. Things happen few months back I was laid off after working in same office for many years, people lose theirs jobs do the best they can so why make matters worse by telling people if you can't care for a pet the way you people do then you should not have any.

Some times I'm shocked by what people say on here, and yes I don't post alot but I do enjoy looking at pictures of everyone pet.

I came to pets.ca to learn more about puppy mills after learning about the breeder my dog came from, I was told how stupid I was. Yes I should of been more educated before buying but, what was I to do get rid of my dog after learning he came from a mill? no of course not. I nursed him to health with some great advice from some people on here( and MY Vet's advice aswell), others were rude and I have not forgotten who they are. I also feel that from my post on pets.ca others read about the breeder and decided not to buy from them, if I stopped only one sale of a puppy to these people I did good!

I often tell people I like dogs over humans, reading through this thread reminds me of many reasons why.

Angeleyes1437
July 9th, 2005, 03:32 PM
goldenblaze... I was happy to read your response. I think I can speak for many people when I say I agree with you.

goldenblaze
July 9th, 2005, 03:43 PM
goldenblaze... I was happy to read your response. I think I can speak for many people when I say I agree with you.

Thanks
I read every word people wrote before I posted, I was not going to post but after thinking more I thought I should share my opinion aswell. While back people were sending PMs telling others I was involed with someone causing trouble on here, nothing further from the truth but because others were saying it , it must be true... see how thing go on here. Not one person asked me, they just sent pm talking about me behind my back how rude was that. One person sent me a pm telling me what was going on, I was shocked but thankful she had enough balls to tell me. I sent a pm to Marko at that time telling him how I felt and never heard anything back. It's over and done with but I did lose alot of respect for some people, that is forsure.

Luba
July 9th, 2005, 04:19 PM
I like you GoldenBlaze u know dat :D

CyberKitten
July 9th, 2005, 04:23 PM
Thx for the defintion, I think. Just did not understand why you had to include an "attitude" with it - just say what it is, don't try to be mean. Gheez, <Shaking my head> And actually downplay is not in my dictionay. Don't worry- I won't ask you for help again.

Angeleyes1437
July 9th, 2005, 04:29 PM
Thx for the defintion, I think. Just did not understand why you had to include an "attitude" with it - just say what it is, don't try to be mean. Gheez, <Shaking my head> And actually downplay is not in my dictionay. Don't worry- I won't ask you for help again.

Downplay is in dictionaries though, ... there was no attitude in it- I honestly didn't know if you were serious or not. Calm down CK, nobody is out to get you... it seems like you don't want to let go of this hostile tone.

Shamrock
July 9th, 2005, 04:41 PM
I would just like to make one other suggestion here, if I may.

Anonymous moderators.

This enables them to offer their own input freely, without concerns that their comments might influence others to "side" with them, or that negative comments will be judged as inappropriate with the moderator "hat" on.

I've always felt this was a better plan. Why do people need to know who the mods are - as long as they can reach one?

Of course we already know who they are, but newbies wouldnt and over time there presence on the board would be no different that any others. Everyone on the same "footing..so to speak.

For locking threads, moderator comments.. a general MODERATOR login is used.

Just a thought... works for me. :)

Angeleyes1437
July 9th, 2005, 04:43 PM
Not a bad idea Shamrock! :D
What does everyone else think?

chico2
July 9th, 2005, 04:45 PM
I honestly cannot see why anyone would be scared to post,if you have an opinion,any opinion,it's worth posting..it's not like someone is going to jump out of your PC-screen and attack you :D We are in cyber-space after all.
I am certainly one of the"old"posters and I have learned an awful lot from this Forum,especially about dogs and I have 3 cats :D
I've learned about private rescues,whom I did not even know existed,people who would go the extra mile to save a life...
Yes,sometimes I can get angry and try to hold my tounge...but voicing my opinion should not be considered rude,I honestly do not think I have a rude bone in my body :angel:
Life is too darn short to be sensitive about everything that's said in this Forum....I for one think it's a great Forum and I hope it continues to be so..

Writing4Fun
July 9th, 2005, 04:50 PM
I like that idea, Shamrock.

Angeleyes1437
July 9th, 2005, 04:52 PM
I honestly cannot see why anyone would be scared to post,if you have an opinion,any opinion,it's worth posting..it's not like someone is going to jump out of your PC-screen and attack you :D We are in cyber-space after all.
I am certainly one of the"old"posters and I have learned an awful lot from this Forum,especially about dogs and I have 3 cats :D
I've learned about private rescues,whom I did not even know existed,people who would go the extra mile to save a life...
Yes,sometimes I can get angry and try to hold my tounge...but voicing my opinion should not be considered rude,I honestly do not think I have a rude bone in my body :angel:
Life is too darn short to be sensitive about everything that's said in this Forum....I for one think it's a great Forum and I hope it continues to be so..

You are right, however some people do not want to get upset over a forum... so they would rather not post than deal with a stampede of people attacking them. This is a shame because we lose some really useful input. I don't think anyone should have to feel intimidated. IMO :)

mona_b
July 9th, 2005, 05:21 PM
but voicing my opinion should not be considered rude.
Life is too darn short to be sensitive about everything.

:highfive: sista... :D

Anita,you definately don't have a rude bone in your body....(((((((HUGS))))))

I just wanted to add that my husband has seen some of the posts on here.And if anything,he thinks that some of the newbies who come on here, not wanting to take their VERY sick if not dying pet to the vet,but would rather get a quick fix from us non vets,need a swift kick in the A$$..That's my man for you.... :thumbs up

chico2
July 9th, 2005, 05:27 PM
Angeleyes,yes I guess it depends on the person and how sensitive you are,the only time I get emotional is when reading about an animal being abused,or when an animal had to be PTS..but then again,I am not an insecure teenager anymore :D what people think about me,is really not important any more.
This Forum is mainly for and about animals,one of my main interests,be they wild or domestic and I am often considered a bit over the top...but that's me in a nut-shell,take it or leave it..
You are only intimidated if you allow yourself to be,if you have strong beliefs in something,no matter what any poster says it should not change.
I came here for advice a long time ago,one of my cats had attacked me twice and I mean attack,with serious bitewounds(yes,I still have him!)Lucky was wonderful and helpful and although he would probably do the same again,I now know how to prevent it,thank's to this Forum and Lucky.. :thumbs up

chico2
July 9th, 2005, 05:30 PM
Awwww,thank's Mona :grouphug: you're a sweetheart :love:

Writing4Fun
July 9th, 2005, 05:31 PM
Maybe we need to clarify what is considered "rude" and what is considered "forthright" or "blunt"?? There are obviously differing opinions on this, and I don't see how the mods could police the "rudeness" if it's not clearly defined and simply a matter of opinion. :confused:

melanie
July 9th, 2005, 05:44 PM
opps big apology on way (i havent even finished reading all posts but felt i had to apologise straight away), see angeleyes i didnt actually mean you when i said 'you', ah im a real shocker when it comes to generalisations, so when i said 'you' i meant the majority really, opps i should watch what i say and try a bit harder wiht explanations i suppose. but then you must understand i am a very highly strung person who lives at a fast pace mentally, and sometimes i must admit i type fast and type as i think, --- big mistake--- as as you have seen i can be a bit non descriptive to say the least and pretty stupid myself.......

and yeah i know what you mean, many of us know each others personalities and often read with that in mind, man if you did not know me you would think im a right cow and a total nut case i suppose....hey i even have accents in my head for most of you, you should hear ironknights, lol.....

and as far as me wanting to argue goes, ah that comment was made in jest, but i do admiti love an imformative debate weather i come out on top or not, ii jsut love to learn and discover really, agasin a bit of poor exp on my part and a bit of misinterp on others


luba my love, its so cold and ihave trouble typing not to mention the effects of my special little cigerettes :D :p :D

Angeleyes1437
July 9th, 2005, 06:19 PM
No need to apologize Mel, thank you... I too took you the wrong way- and I noticed that. It's just with the way this thread kicked off it was hard to figure out everyone.

Chico- I am not a insecure teenager anymore either... actually, I never was an insecure person. I doubt the majority of people on here are even that. I find it sad when grown people with plenty of knowledge and imput are scared to post, thats all! I've heard it often and that's why I started this thread, ya know? Nobody is knocking the forum itself (or at least I'm not)... just pointing out that this problem DOES exist to some. Additionally, I will be the first to say a good debate is healthy... as long as it stays at that, a debate.

Like I was saying earlier, I may not have enough seniority to some of you as to what I feel goes on. However, I felt that I heard enough of it in the short time I've been here to bring it up. If some of you took offense I apologize, but I am a very open person and in the long run I think you will appreciate that.

marko
July 9th, 2005, 06:23 PM
This thread is now closed.

Thanks you to all who posted and gave your opinions.

If anyone who did NOT post wants to add their opinion, please PM me.

Marko
ADMIN