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Help needed before I lose my mind

Bearsmom
July 5th, 2005, 06:03 PM
Advice needed: We adopted Kaos a mastiff/rotti pup from a friend of ours. This dog is insane. I have tried absolutely everything when it comes to housebreaking and training. He does use the crate at night, with no messes, he's in and out all day with Bear, our older dog, suddenly today (as my husband is out of town, I'm coping with a rangy 2 year old, my temper is short to begin with this week) he comes back inside from being out with Bear for at least an hour (yes, the yard is fenced, so this is nothing new) looks at me and pees right in the middle of the living room carpet. I yelled (I know, that's bad), put him back outside. Let him in again (about ten minutes later), I was sitting on the floor with my son, he comes over, lifts his leg, and pees on my back! After admittedly freaking out on him (yelling, again), I put him right back outside and went out with him, praising him when he peed. He comes back in with me, goes downstairs, and pees on the carpet.

What the hell is going on? HELP!!!!!

Angeleyes1437
July 5th, 2005, 06:07 PM
Did you give him free reign of the house as soon as you took him in?

Bearsmom
July 5th, 2005, 06:10 PM
No, we had him gated in the kitchen (I knew those baby gates could be useful once again), but he learned to jump them by the time he was about 3 1/2 months old. He is crated when we're not home.

angie79
July 5th, 2005, 06:12 PM
are you getting rid of all the smells in the carpet?

badger
July 5th, 2005, 06:17 PM
It seems to me that you have to re-establish your dominance. Lifting his leg on your back - yow!

Bearsmom
July 5th, 2005, 06:28 PM
are you getting rid of all the smells in the carpet?

Any suggestions? We use a spot cleaner, and are going to be lifting the lovely white carpet (BAD idea with a 2 year old, 2 dogs and a cat) in the upstairs and replacing it with flooring in the near future, the basement just gets spot cleaning, but I don't know if it's removing the smells or not.

DogueLover
July 5th, 2005, 06:34 PM
That would probably set me off as well, I mean lifting his leg and doing that on YOU. Bad dog bad bad dog.
What are you using to clean up after him? Sometimes when we clean up the mess we don`t get rid of all of the smell and they will then come back in and do it again. As for doing this after being outside for long periods of time I wonder if making him go pee BEFORE he comes back in would help.
How old is he? Is he neutered?
Sometimes an unaltered male will come in and "mark" territory, he has taken that wayyyyyy past what I would consider normal.
Give the going pee before he comes back in a try, I know it may not help but it is worth a try.
Also, if you don`t get all of the odor out of where ever he is marking he will do it again. Natures Miracle works well but you have to be sure to really saturate the spot and let it dry out on its own. I`ve heard that vinegar will do it as well but you have to be sure to get all of the odor out or your work is all for nothing.

I hope other members can give you some advice, that is just wrong and I would not tolerate it very well.

Until you can figure out what is causing this I would try to keep him OFF carpets,,,,,, it is really hard to get all the odor out of the carpet and underlay. Baby gates will work if you put them higher in the doorway. I have the expanding ones and if I have to keep the dogs in the porch or out of any certain living quarters I just put it up higher on the door and they cannot crawl under or jump over it. ( We have had a LOT of rain lately and when our dogues come in from a romp outside they are COVERED in mud and are soaked to the skin, until they are dry and I can get their feet and legs clean I keep them in the porch with the baby gate barricade).
Good luck with correcting this, I feel for you, being irritable and having this to cope with would not be any fun at all.

Luba
July 5th, 2005, 06:37 PM
I'm sorry as much as this frustrated you I had to laugh at him peeing on your back.

When you take him out..make sure you keep him on lead and do not play at all if this is a pee trip. Take him to the spot you want him to go to pee, encourage him and keep saying 'pee time ' or something like that.
AFter he pees outside PRAISE HIM LIKE no tomorrow.

Then you can take him back inside only after pee is done.

It takes time and constant control of the situation but eventually it's like BOOM they get it !! :D

Pssssst did you shower afterwards LOL LMAOOO

Bearsmom
July 5th, 2005, 06:42 PM
That would probably set me off as well, I mean lifting his leg and doing that on YOU. Bad dog bad bad dog.
What are you using to clean up after him? Sometimes when we clean up the mess we don`t get rid of all of the smell and they will then come back in and do it again. As for doing this after being outside for long periods of time I wonder if making him go pee BEFORE he comes back in would help.
How old is he? Is he neutered?
Sometimes an unaltered male will come in and "mark" territory, he has taken that wayyyyyy past what I would consider normal.
Give the going pee before he comes back in a try, I know it may not help but it is worth a try.
Also, if you don`t get all of the odor out of where ever he is marking he will do it again. Natures Miracle works well but you have to be sure to really saturate the spot and let it dry out on its own. I`ve heard that vinegar will do it as well but you have to be sure to get all of the odor out or your work is all for nothing.

I hope other members can give you some advice, that is just wrong and I would not tolerate it very well.

Until you can figure out what is causing this I would try to keep him OFF carpets,,,,,, it is really hard to get all the odor out of the carpet and underlay. Baby gates will work if you put them higher in the doorway. I have the expanding ones and if I have to keep the dogs in the porch or out of any certain living quarters I just put it up higher on the door and they cannot crawl under or jump over it. ( We have had a LOT of rain lately and when our dogues come in from a romp outside they are COVERED in mud and are soaked to the skin, until they are dry and I can get their feet and legs clean I keep them in the porch with the baby gate barricade).
Good luck with correcting this, I feel for you, being irritable and having this to cope with would not be any fun at all.

I've been using the Arm and Hammer Pet Odor Remover...doesn't seem like it's working.

He's quite the jumper and has been able to clear the gates, putting them any higher will just allow him to go under them. It's just hell. He's fine in his crate, but I don't like leaving him in it for longer than a few hours at a time.

He's 4 1/2 months old and not yet neutered, although he will be at 6 months.

Bearsmom
July 5th, 2005, 06:43 PM
Forgot to add, all the pets, (human and fur) get a wee bit psycho when hubby leaves town. Maybe I'm just evil....

Angeleyes1437
July 5th, 2005, 06:46 PM
How old is he? Is he neutered? Those are important factors. Obviously, depending on his age (which I'm assuming isn't too young if he's picking up he leg, although it's different for every pup) peeing on your can be a sign of dominance over you, especially if done after already peeing! I'm not sure of the exact technique a trainer would suggest (LR? Tenderfoot?) but I would bring him right outside and tell him to sit then lay down. Tell him to stay once he is laying. So he knows you are in control. Of course I would refrain from yelling and definitely from hitting (i know you didn't say you hit, but just had to say that).

Do you give him commands throughout the day? He needs to know that you are alpha, mentally challenge him. Additionally, is he getting lots of exercise? He may be at the stage where he is testing your role in the household. Make sure you are constantly making him work for everything, before a treat "sit", before dinner "sit" "stay" "Paw" etc. I think that will help... I'm sure he's not having a physical issue if he has the time to pee on your back!

Again, I'm sure LR, Tenderfoot and the others will have some great advice for you that I may not be able to give.

LavenderRott
July 5th, 2005, 07:02 PM
If he lifted his leg and peed on you then I would say that you have a dominance issue. Does he pee on the floor when your husband is home or is this something he does when your husband is away?

Has he had any formal training at all? If not then YOU (not your husband) need to take him to one. It is going to be much harder to establish your dominance over this dog as he gets bigger.

You could also try leashing him to you when he is in the house. I am not sure how well this will work with a young child in the house though. Anyway, having him leashed to you will give you the opprotunity to instantly correct him if he starts to pee on the floor. And don't worry about crating him when you can't keep an eye on him. It won't kill him to spend some time in there when you are home and awake.

Lucky Rescue
July 5th, 2005, 07:04 PM
I have tried absolutely everything when it comes to housebreaking and training.

Can you tell us exactly what you have tried, and for how long? Also, how old is this puppy?

Sending a puppy out into the yard is not housetraining. It teaches him nothing.

Angeleyes1437
July 5th, 2005, 07:16 PM
I was very little when my family taught my poodle to go outside. As for Maximus once he got his last set of shots I let him go in the backyard, after three days of putting him outside to pee/poop he never went on the wee-wee pad again, or in the house at all. I got lucky with that because I never had to teach him or discpline him- he just did it because I praised him like crazy when he went outside (I catch myself still doing it months later!).

How would you suggest you let a dog know that he/she has to go outside? Just ignore it and then praise them when they do right?

mona_b
July 5th, 2005, 07:20 PM
Now my question to you is are you just letting him out with Bear,or are you out there with him?This makes a huge difference to me.If you go out there with him,and does goes pee,then while you are out there it's you who can praise him to no end for doing it.He is only 4 1/2 months old and needs to know right from wrong.This is where you come in.

I would use a command with him.Like "go pee"...Take him outside,especially once he has gotten up or fed/drank...As soon as you take him out take him to a spot and say "go pee".Once he does,praise him like crazy.

Remember,you need to be out there with him.Also,you really do need to not yell at him.This at times can make it worse.

As for getting the odor out,Natures Miracle is amazing.... :)

Angeleyes1437
July 5th, 2005, 07:27 PM
He's only 4 1/2 months old?... I didn't see that earlier, Mona B is right in my opinion. You definitely should try going out with him for pee time.

And I can second that, Nature's Miracle is awesome! :thumbs up

coppperbelle
July 5th, 2005, 09:05 PM
I would recommend exercise and lots of it. Take him for a walk at least twice a day and give him a good play time during the day. Allowing him outside alone is not sufficient. He needs to be stimulated, retrieving a ball or frisbee.
Restrict the area in the house where he has access. For example allow him in the kitchen only until he can be trusted again.
Covering the smell of previous accidents is difficult. I find that vinegar does the best job. Cover the whole spot with vinegar.
This sounds like a behavioral problem and not a training one.

Bearsmom
July 5th, 2005, 10:39 PM
Thanks for all the advice, I really am having a really bad day, and this just seemed to make it worse.

Yes, I showered afterward!!! LMAO.

He is 4 1/2 months old, and not yet neutered, (the vet doesn't do it till 6 months), and he will be neutered as soon as he's old enough.

I do go out with him not every time, but every other time (I can't leave my 2 year old inside the house as his favourite habit is to lock the patio doors). I praise Kaos like mad, both dogs get 3 1 hour walks daily, and tonnes of play time daily.

Yelling was my frustration, and I felt like **** after I yelled at him.

I was just wondering if I was doing anything wrong, or should I be doing something more. As I am home with the dogs the majority of the time, it falls on me for training (no fault of my husband's, he works straight days and I'm on shifts). Just ticks me off when hubby comes home and gives the boys a command and they're just angels!!!! Grrrr. (Maybe I should pee on hubby's back???LOL)

The local obedience school won't take him till he's 6 months old, and he's already enrolled.

Again, thanks.

Luba
July 5th, 2005, 10:43 PM
Oh he's just a baby

This is gonna take time, just keep it up and be patient it will work out :D

LMFHO golden shower :eek:

Bearsmom
July 5th, 2005, 10:57 PM
Well, it should show dominance, shouldn't it???? :D :D :D

Luba
July 5th, 2005, 11:02 PM
LOL you are worse then me!! :evil:

Bearsmom
July 5th, 2005, 11:04 PM
Yes, maam, I'm a twisted one. But always good for a laugh.

tenderfoot
July 5th, 2005, 11:18 PM
How can it be true that people still don't neuter or do obedience until dogs are 6 mos old? Neuter him now and get him enrolled now (as best you can)!
I kept getting images of 'Nanny 911' when she arrives at a house where the mom is ready to go bonkers and the kids are bouncing off the walls and abusing the heck out of mom (though peeing on mom would probably get edited out!).
Right now life is one big circus with his older sibling - why should he behave when he doesn't respect the people in charge? This little guy is enjoying way too much recess and is not getting enough time at school with mom. School does not have to be formal classes. Keeping this roughian on a leash in the house would be the best thing you could do for both your sakes. It makes you the leader and him the follower. Get him to do his tasks throughout the time you are together, when he gets a break it might be in the crate and then back out with you and then maybe some free time with the older dog and then back with you. He needs to spend time away from the other dog and more time with you. If his bond to the older dog is stronger you are going to have a rough time communicating with him when you need it.
By the way he could have a 40 word vocabulary right now! He is totally capable of it, and he would love to get some one on one with you. This also provides you with the opportunity to teach him some house manners. If you catch him making a mistake - correct it and then get him outside - stay with him and praise him for peeing outside (give him a few chances to do it) and then back inside but still on the leash so that when he tries to repeat his error you are ready to tell him thats a bad idea.
The only chance he has to behave differently is if you take the initiative to teach him. It will take time and seeing him through some phases, but it can happen and it should not take the whole summer.

Bearsmom
July 6th, 2005, 08:25 AM
[QUOTE=tenderfoot]How can it be true that people still don't neuter or do obedience until dogs are 6 mos old? Neuter him now and get him enrolled now (as best you can)!

My vet doesn't. Plus he's got an undescended testicle, and they're waiting to see if it descends, otherwise we're looking at a spay and neuter on one dog


I kept getting images of 'Nanny 911' when she arrives at a house where the mom is ready to go bonkers and the kids are bouncing off the walls and abusing the heck out of mom (though peeing on mom would probably get edited out!).

My 2 year old isn't the problem, at least I can reason with him!

Right now life is one big circus with his older sibling - why should he behave when he doesn't respect the people in charge?

Very well said!

This little guy is enjoying way too much recess and is not getting enough time at school with mom.

I'm stretched pretty thin right now, and we do spend about an hour a day outside working with sit, stay (Kaos gets stay better than Bear does), come, and he's doing really well with heeling while walking.

Keeping this roughian on a leash in the house would be the best thing you could do for both your sakes. It makes you the leader and him the follower.

I'll give it a shot.


By the way he could have a 40 word vocabulary right now!

He knows sit, stay, come, heel, treat, walk, no cat, down, gentle, ball, toy, quiet (oh, crap, that's only 12 words)

jessi76
July 6th, 2005, 09:24 AM
2 dogs, a cat, and a 2 year old? you already got great advice, so i'll just give you a round of applause! ** clap clap clap clap...**

I personally haven't tried it yet, but I have heard good things about Zero Odor to get pet smells out.

DogueLover
July 6th, 2005, 10:04 AM
I found that when Angel was little ( she was with us from the time she was 11 weeks old on) I never "paper trained" her and it worked great. She was taught to go outside from day one, that way we didn`t have issues later with her thinking that it was okay to pee on papers.
We would go outside and I would tell her to "go pee". When I saw her starting to squat to pee I would tell her again "go pee" and then praised her like nuts. It worked like a charm. She only had a few accidents and every time I took her out I would tell her to "go pee" and she figured it out and to this day I can put her in the run and tell her to go pee ( that is where I want the dog messes instead of all over my yard) and she will.
C`Zarr came to us at 18 months old. That was interesting as he had never spent a lot of time indoors or with people. I had to start basics with him when he was 18 months old. It wasn`t easy but he is really smart and he caught on really fast. Now I can tell him the same thing and he does it.

A two year old and two dogs and a cat is a lot for one person and I can understand why you are overwhelmed. Just the two year old would be exhausting. However, a puppy can learn the housebreaking stuff quickly if you are consistent. The time you have to put in is definately worth it. Also, being in the crate is not a bad thing, most dogs actually like being in the crate. Maybe one of those exercise pens would work in the house.
Good luck with him and try to be patient. (By the way, at our house the exact opposite happens with the dogs with my hubby, the dogs don`t listen to him nearly as well as they listen to me, but I am the grocery lady, the alpha, and I belong to them, he hates the fact that all I have to do is give the dogs a "look" and they do exactly what I want them to.)

tenderfoot
July 6th, 2005, 10:05 AM
Please don't think I was saying your child was out of control - I was comparing the dogs to kids. - Just making sure I didn't insult your child.

Okay - a cryptorchid is worth waiting for it to drop. Those surgeries can be soooo expensive.

Sounds like you are doing a great job - 12 words is way better than 2. Even if you use those 12 that's keeping his brain busy and you can add tons more as you go.

Try to break that hour up into littler bits. It will keep him more in tuned to you through out the day. Also try to anticipate his actions so that you can help teach him some impulse control. Stop him before he gets too much momentum - it's easier on you both.

Bearsmom
July 7th, 2005, 03:53 PM
Please don't think I was saying your child was out of control - I was comparing the dogs to kids. - Just making sure I didn't insult your child.

Okay - a cryptorchid is worth waiting for it to drop. Those surgeries can be soooo expensive.

Sounds like you are doing a great job - 12 words is way better than 2. Even if you use those 12 that's keeping his brain busy and you can add tons more as you go.

Try to break that hour up into littler bits. It will keep him more in tuned to you through out the day. Also try to anticipate his actions so that you can help teach him some impulse control. Stop him before he gets too much momentum - it's easier on you both.

LOL, no, I wasn't insulted, at least my 2 year old can answer back (which, by the way, he's VERY good at). I may need that nanny 911 someday, but hope to God not!

The other night after Robbie went to bed, I put the dogs out and went out with them, I did my usual "go pee" to Kaos, and he went right over and squatted to pee, I did a tremendous amount of cheering and yippeedoo ing, and you'd swear I just gave him the biggest treat ever. Bear immediately went over and peed and looked at me like, "okay, since we're cheering, where's mine?" It was pretty funny.

I guess we'll just have to keep doing that every time (we've been doing it the majority of the time, but admittedly have gotten lazy lately)

Thanks so much to everyone for all you're advice, you've all been so helpful!

maddoxies
July 7th, 2005, 07:18 PM
I have to use two baby gates with Valentin, stacking one on top of the other. Yup, a 10 pound miniature dachshund and one baby gate will not hold him. He scales the baby gate like a rock climber.

Good luck

Bearsmom
July 7th, 2005, 09:55 PM
Kaos does a full tilt run at them, a half jump till the gate catches him at his hips, then he lets the momentum of his run flip him over the gate.

lilith_rizel
July 9th, 2005, 01:14 PM
Double the baby gates. Put another one in the doorway right aboe the other one!!!!! It is what I would do. Youi may have to start all over with the house training too. I don't know........

raingirl
July 9th, 2005, 01:37 PM
call me crazy but when I was scanning the posts, I didn't see anything suggest/consider that it might be a medical thing? Has he been to the vet just in case it's a urinary track infection. I hear most male dogs get them at least once in puppyhood.