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Well She's finally out...Homolka that is!

Luba
July 4th, 2005, 03:18 PM
Sad sad day for Canadian criminal justice system. Horrifying day for all of the victims and victims family.

May she suffer as they have and continue to suffer. May she serve her time, in fear just as her victims served their time in fear for their lives.

Something that should never have happened, and a case handled terribly from the get go!

A GIANT step backwards for victims rights.

Prin
July 4th, 2005, 03:20 PM
I've been following that story since I was 13. They were around my age when they were murdered. I hope she loses her fight against the media. She doesn't have a right to have a good, peaceful life. :mad: She changed her name already. I forget what it is, but it starts with T.

sammiec
July 4th, 2005, 03:24 PM
Her name is Karla Teale.

I hope the media haunts her and causes her life to be miserable and I hope she has no peace. I hope she is haunted by these murders forever.

Luba
July 4th, 2005, 03:28 PM
Her and her murdering exhusband changed their names to Teale.
It may have been after a character in the movie Clockwork Orange, a movie about a rapist/killer...one of his favourite movies.

Sick sick sick

sammiec
July 4th, 2005, 03:34 PM
Wasn't Teale one of Paul's aliases? I thought he was a Teale a LONG time ago? I never knew that she changed hers until her release was getting closer.

I don't see how she's going to get a job in this country... everyone knows about her/them... who the heck would want her working for them??

Luba
July 4th, 2005, 03:41 PM
Ya both of them changed their names, but that doesn't prevent her from changing it again. However, it's all public record, she will not have a moment of peace in her life.

sammiec
July 4th, 2005, 03:44 PM
Nor should she!

Lizzie
July 4th, 2005, 03:50 PM
Our tax dollars have already given her enough protection and prison allowed her to remain shielded from the public scruitiny...if the media want to have a field day, I say, so beit!

You, me, the Mahaffey and French families have all been forced to help to pay for her to learn French, get a university degree and do countless other things that even average law abiding citizens can't afford. I'm tired of the government, the police or special rights groups looking out for her....who looked out for Leslie or Kristin? Enough is enough!

Bearsmom
July 4th, 2005, 04:06 PM
Our tax dollars have housed this moron for 12 years, where she received makeovers/ birthday celebrations/ and lastly, a University degree.

Now, I remember working for the City for $6 an hour doing dogsweating work to pay my way through University. This, she gets for free.

She made her deal knowing full well she'd walk sooner than she ever should have. She played the "innocent victim" very well, however, I guess that's what a sociopath is capable of doing.

She didn't "serve" any time; my idea of serving time is FAR harsher than she'd EVER imagine.

My heart just breaks for ALL of their victims' families, including her own family that lost their other daughter at the hands of Karla.

I was watching CITY-TV the other day and they had their talkback Toronto on, and some woman called in and said, "I hope someone shoots her right between the eyes, then gets a commendation for it". I concur completely.

I hope the media publishes her whereabouts/whatever job she may get (although who'd be stupid enough to hire her)/ and her every single waking movement until the day she dies.

She's a piece of **** and deserves NOTHING.

angie79
July 4th, 2005, 04:08 PM
omg all this makes me laugh....

our tax dollars going to protect her, she doesn't deserve it... she asked for it so what if she's scared those girls she killed were scared!!!!

tax dollars going for her to get a university degree and learn french... gov't wouldn't even give me a government loan for school... still paying off college. thank god i didn't go to uni... I'd be paying it off til i'm 40....

and yes what you said about who will hire her no one so we will be paying her welfare.....

and whats the point of changing ones name when everyone knows it!!!

I've been saying for weeks with all this coverage it was just to make someone angry enough to kill her once she gets out... well we will see...

NDG was to expensive so we know she's not going there, If she is put in my nieghbourhood I want to know...

LavenderRott
July 4th, 2005, 04:25 PM
Please read this whole post before you lynch me, ok.

I believe that the prison system in both the U.S. and Canada are set up so that people can do their time and go on to be contributing members of society. A college degree is part and parcel of rehabilitation and gives a prisoner a job skill so that they can actually find a JOB when they get out and not have to resort to a life of crime to feed themselves or put a roof over their head. I do think that they should have to pay back some of that college money after they get a job - everybody else has to!

I also have a very hard time with the death penalty. If God said that it is a sin to kill someone, then it should be just as sinful to punish someone to death. BUT - being as I am not a religious person - I think that it costs way to much money to sentence someone to death. Believe it or not, it is cheaper to keep someone in prison for life then it is to execute them. Add to that the number of people that were on death row in just the last 10 years that were found out to be innocent of the crimes they were convicted of due to new methods of evidence evaluation - ie: DNA testing for example. How do you ever apologize to the families of those legally killed?

I love to read true crime books. I am always fascinated by the methods used to catch such people. Having said that - the story of the Holmolka's was a story that I couldn't even read, it sickened me so much. Trust in Karma - she will get what she deserves in the end.

Shamrock
July 4th, 2005, 04:33 PM
True justice doesnt always prevail within our system, unfortunately. :sick: but its all we've got.

I believe in karma, though. This evil and vile shrike will get her just desserts "somewhere" in this life - or the next.

Until that time, I sincerely hope her days are spent looking over her shoulder. Not a moments peace, not a shred of happiness for the black heart that she possesses.

Will she suffer having to cut off her romance with the convicted murderer that she aligned herself with? Hope so.

Will she even comply?

Luba
July 4th, 2005, 04:35 PM
I would never advocate a death sentence. Capitol Punishment is not something I believe in. This woman should have remained incarcerated for the remainder of her life. Thus protecting society, and innocent lives from her deviant mind.

Melinda
July 4th, 2005, 04:41 PM
no no no....let her out...publish where she'll be.............and watch...

Shamrock
July 4th, 2005, 04:51 PM
LavenderRott, yes.. some things are just beyond the pale, arent they? And this case was one. I too oppose the death penalty, but she deserved life in prison just as surely as her fiendish husband - or Clifford Olson, the other notorious Canadian killer. :evil:

When the monstrous duo was on trial, I complained to my local newspaper (Vancouver Sun) about their graphic and lurid headlines splashed across the front page.
Yes, its news and should be reported - but must it scream at you from your doorstep each and every morning?

I wasnt alone in this objection apparently - they soon moved the coverage off the front pages and into the middle section.
Could then be avoided by those who just didnt want to start their day with morning coffee and unspeakable horror.

JDG
July 4th, 2005, 04:54 PM
Give her 6 months. If someone doesn't end her life for her, I bet she ends her own.

Will that be justice though?

I understand the frustrations that everyone has about this woman, but I myself am not "without sin" - so I'm not casting any stones if you know what I mean. . . . .

My mother always told me to walk a mile in someone elses moccochins, and I have tried to imagine what it would be like to be her right now - and I just can't!.. . . . .

Writing4Fun
July 4th, 2005, 05:17 PM
JDG, none of us are without sin, but we can't compare our minor infractions to what this "person" has done.

Yeah, she did her time. But how much "time" will the victims' families have to do before they get to live in peace?? Gawd, I'm completely panic-stricken at the thought of her returning to a place anywhere near where I and my children live. I can't even imagine what the victims' families are going through right now. Did anyone think to walk a mile in their shoes before releasing this monster back into society?

I'm all for rehabilitating convicted criminals, IF there's any chance that they will actually reform and IF their crimes did not cost a person their life. If they took a life, IMHO, then they've given up their rights to a normal life themselves. I don't believe in the death penalty either, but I agree with Luba that she should spend the rest of her days behind bars, paying for what she did. I don't think it should be a free ride, either. I think she should have to work to repay some of her debt to society (not that her debt will ever totally be repaid, but it's a start). Get her out there cleaning roadkill off the highways for the rest of her natural life. Maybe then she'll truly be sorry for what she did.

chico2
July 4th, 2005, 05:43 PM
JDG,I could not even imagine the terror Leslie and Christine felt,being tortured and sexually violated every day,knowing they would die....I suggest Karla should walk a mile in their shoes...
I personally am hoping she will be terrified for the rest of her life,see a killer in everyone she passes on the street...she is an evil selfcentered human being and should have spent her life in jail.
She is still young,she can marry and have a future,3 young girls were robbed of that opportunity,their mother and father robbed of their chidren in the most horrific way.
No,I hope she spends the rest of her life looking over her shoulder :evil:
I am definetly not without sin,but can honestly say,I have never caused any person or animal any pain or suffering,she took part in the ultimate crime and should pay for that the rest of her life!

Luba
July 4th, 2005, 05:57 PM
Let us pray this woman NEVER procreates!

CyberKitten
July 4th, 2005, 06:06 PM
Gawd! I was not going to respond to this thread - the whole topic makes me ill - and then I saw the word "procreates". I do not even want to envision THAT!! I too oppose capital punishment but I won't be sad if someone does become a vigilante and do somethingto her. The sad thing is that person would likely get more time than Karla.

Bearsmom
July 4th, 2005, 06:19 PM
Well for someone who doesn't want to be followed, she sure dashed off to the French CBC and gave an interview 3 whole hours after her release.

She didn't serve any "time". She'll find some stupid sap to marry her.

This is way closer to home for my family than any of you will ever realize. I, for one, will be watching closely. I DARE her to come back to St. Catherine's. I just DARE her.

SnowDancer
July 4th, 2005, 06:21 PM
The very fact that the other inmates did not have the opportunity to do what normally happens to child killers - or were sufficiently "motivated" not to - really adds to those tax dollars. I had really hoped that matter would have been taken care of week one. She will probably under plastic surgery at the tax payers' expense and then enter a protection program - well funded, of course.

chico2
July 4th, 2005, 11:00 PM
I watched part of the interview...almost got sick,she is looking for sympathy and I am sure she'll find some dud who will fall for her theatrics.

Prin
July 4th, 2005, 11:19 PM
I just finished watching the whole interview. She sounds so rehearsed.

When the monstrous duo was on trial, I complained to my local newspaper (Vancouver Sun) about their graphic and lurid headlines splashed across the front page.
I was peeved when the Gazette had it on A14. They had the shortest articles about it, I had to get other newspapers. It was such a horrible crime-- I can't imagine losing a daughter like that, let alone having VIDEOS of it all. That would be a pain impossible to live through.

I'd believe Krappy Karla more if she wasn't smiling in the videos so much.

As for the death penalty, I don't think any amount of DNA testing would have proven her innocent. No risk here.

On the one hand, I hate that she's coming to Montreal. On the other, French people here are much more passionate than the rest of Canadians.. If she is going to live unhappily, this is the place. Nobody will let her be (I hope). :fingerscr

She said that her ideal is that everybody forgets about her. Never. That could have been me. I was the right age. Never will I forget or even get less angry. She's a witch. She's a nutjob. She's a liar. And all the gov't did was arm her with even more dangerous friends. :mad:

Luba
July 4th, 2005, 11:22 PM
She is so very dramatic isn't she! I find it humourous that she wants to be left alone and did that interview just after her release. Now everybody knows what you look like you stupid twit!

Safyre
July 4th, 2005, 11:26 PM
JDG, none of us are without sin, but we can't compare our minor infractions to what this "person" has done.
I have to say this, from a christian religious perspective: No sin is worse than another, in Gods eyes. Sin is Sin. Adultry no worse than murder. Murder no worse then premarital sex. Supposedly. I am not christian, nor religious, but wanted to point that out from the religious standpoint.

My beliefs are hard to explain. I believe in karma, and doing unto others what you would have done to you.
I don't believe in hate, I feel it makes ppl bitter. And for that reason, this thread bothers me. Hate, and revenge only make you worse ppl.
I do not condone anything that she has done, she has paid the debt that was sentenced to her. we can speculate all that we want as to whether or not this was an acceptable sentence, but she served it just the same. The AG allowed this sentence, and now has to deal with the consequences. Lets be angry at the AG that allowed this.
I believe she will get everything back to her in three fold.

Prin
July 4th, 2005, 11:37 PM
Safyre,, some sins are worse. Some sins are never forgiven in the eyes of "God". Like suicide. It's unforgivable. Which I don't get because seems to me it's way worse to kill someone else- to choose for somebody else their time to die than to choose your own... (Homosexuality and divorce are in the same boat to in Catholisism.)

CyberKitten
July 5th, 2005, 12:04 AM
I also believe some sins are worse than others and that many organized religions, my own unique brand of Christianity (Irish Catholicism) is included in that group. As evidence, I cite the once preached and praticed categories of venial and mortal sins. Missing mass was a mortal sin for which your soul would end up in that horrible place with fire and brimstone while a white lie that did not hurt anyone was clearly in the venial column.

Needless to say, when you went to confession, you had to say many more Our Father's and a plethora of Hail Mary's (maybe even the entire rosary for that matter!)for the former and depending on the little white lie, maybe Hail Mary's for the latter.

Seriously, I think most of the major religions are similar. To quote the erudite John Lennon, "Instant Karma's gonna get you." I hope it gets Karla. I do not want to hate anyone (I am not thrilled about the man who murdered my secretary mind you and my feelings about him come VERY close, so much so that the law against capital punishment here probably protects him against me and not the inmates he serves his time with).

I was also taught by my religion and the nuns at the Convent of the Sacred Heart to forgive the sinner but if I were the parents and families of those girls, that is asking just a little too much. I know people can turn their life around and I have seen instances of that but Karla is a cold blooded psychopath and one does not need to be a psychiatriust to know the answer to how well they respond to attempts at rehabilitation. Against my better judgement, I watched part of the interview in French with my bf and she would do well as an actress as she went on and on about her "amlieoration of French, finishing her bac, her benevol (Fr for vounteer) activities, her peer counselling" Hollywood films many movies in Montteal - they can sign her up - she'd do very well in the depiction of fictional tales. Ighhhhhhhhh!!!

Safyre
July 5th, 2005, 12:42 AM
I'm not sure what my friend is, aside from Christian something ,and we had a discussion about homosexuality as well as Holmolka, and he explained, that as he was taught, no sin is worse than another.

I mean, what would be the point of calling it a sin then?
Oh yeah, adultery is a sin, but its not as bad as murder, so you'll still get into heaven.
How does that prevent ppl from adultry?

*shrugs* jsut typing ask i think.

Luba
July 5th, 2005, 07:06 AM
Whatever her sins are (and there are many) it is not our place to take her life. It is our place to protect the lives of others, how unfortunate that won't be possible now.

Tis too bad she could not simply be banished into the desert or something to fend for herself.

I'm not looking forward to they hype the movie will be stirring now that she is released. AND I do hope that nobody I know will put money into the pocket of the idiot that decided to do a film script on this evilness.

chico2
July 5th, 2005, 07:22 AM
I don't usually judge people by the way they look,but Karlas facial expressions,her eyes particularly were evil and cunning...she was darn right ugly :evil:
I do not wish her dead,there are worse punishments than death....
I believe she went on TV,hoping to win people over,but as a 35yr old killer and sexual deviant,it's not as easy as when she was captured,a young woman claiming to be a victim.
The ultimate insult to Kristen and Leslie would be if this killer gets a job consulting young women.
I am also hoping I will not have to look at her ugly face on the frontpage of my morning paper every day,from now on!!

Writing4Fun
July 5th, 2005, 12:29 PM
I have to say this, from a christian religious perspective: No sin is worse than another, in Gods eyes. Sin is Sin.
Well, maybe "sin" wasn't the right word there. I wasn't trying to give my comment religious connotations. Maybe "crime" or "misdeed" would have been better - "immoral acts", maybe. Had she stolen a car or held up a bank, or punched a bouncer in a drunken rage, I would have said, "OK, she did her time. Let her out and see if she can be a productive member of society." She didn't. She took several lives, but before she took them, she violated them in ways we can't even begin to imagine in our worst nightmares. Those girls may be at peace now - only One of us really knows. Their families will never be at peace, knowing that she's out there, somewhere. She doesn't deserve to be out. She doesn't deserve a normal life, to live in peace and be forgotten. She sure as hell doesn't deserve to be protected by the same women's rights groups that would have been there to protect Leslie and Kristen had they survived their ordeal... It all just makes me ill. The justice system has failed us all miserably.

Prin
July 5th, 2005, 12:45 PM
What got me was toward the end, she obviously tried hard to choke up some tears. She hadn't cried the whole time and I guess she figured it was her last chance.

They didn't say what her bachelor was in-- let's hope it's in history or women's studies so she'll never find work. :evil:

Writing4Fun
July 5th, 2005, 12:50 PM
They didn't say what her bachelor was in-- let's hope it's in history or women's studies so she'll never find work. :evil:
Here's a thought ... can employers refuse to hire her on the grounds that she's "Karla"? Or will "the system" step in once again and force someone to give her a chance? I know I sure as hell would never be able to work with her. Can you imagine calling up your local cable provider and finding out that the person helping you on the other end of the phone is her?? :yuck:

Schwinn
July 5th, 2005, 01:50 PM
I thought it was funny when I saw her on TV, only because she's trying so hard for the media to leave her alone, and I think most people would not have recogonized her walking down the street unless they REALLY stared at her. Had she not gone on TV, I'd say that she would have had a good chance of living her life in obscurity, for a time, anyway. Most people know what she looks like from 12 years ago, which is quite different from now.

As for whether a company could refuse to hire her, yes and no. Technically, no, they can't refuse to hire her for being Karla (with the exception of a few jobs). However, they can refuse to hire her for not being the best cadidate who applied.

As for making a movie about it, I'm torn. We have movies about the Son of Sam, the Boston Strangler, Jack the Ripper, and the Manson Family. There was no big uproar about those, so at what point does a movie about a killer become acceptable? Is it time? The nature of the crime? This is why I didn't sign the petition, only because I, personally, felt a bit hypocritical about it. I was willing to watch the other movies, and I'm sure there were people who they hit home for, so how could I turn around and rally against this movie? I'm not saying I'm for it, I'm only saying the inner struggle I had when it came into my in-box.

Luba
July 5th, 2005, 02:00 PM
I believe she has a psych degree

Roxy's_MA
July 5th, 2005, 02:03 PM
She will probably end up on welfare, continuing live off our Tax $$. I don't believe in the death penalty, but I think she should have been in Jail for the rest of her life. I believe her ex-husband will be in prision indefinatly.

I know she worked in a vet clinic before she went into prison.

Bearsmom
July 5th, 2005, 02:28 PM
As for making a movie about it, I'm torn. We have movies about the Son of Sam, the Boston Strangler, Jack the Ripper, and the Manson Family. There was no big uproar about those, so at what point does a movie about a killer become acceptable? Is it time? The nature of the crime? This is why I didn't sign the petition, only because I, personally, felt a bit hypocritical about it. I was willing to watch the other movies, and I'm sure there were people who they hit home for, so how could I turn around and rally against this movie? I'm not saying I'm for it, I'm only saying the inner struggle I had when it came into my in-box.

As I stated before, this is far closer to home than any crime I've ever investigated. Watching a movie or reading a book about it just glorifies the crimes, and negates the victims. Think of the families, people, think of the families.

CyberKitten
July 5th, 2005, 03:43 PM
It irks me that she has become a celebrety, albeit notorious, in some ways (we are diuscussing HER after all), while does anyone talk about the victims - Leslie and Kristen?

heidiho
July 5th, 2005, 04:37 PM
I must say i do believe in the death penalty,and i cannot believe she is out,un believeable,..............You take someones life,you should not have the right to yours.Just my opinion :usa:

Shamrock
July 5th, 2005, 04:56 PM
Why are people SO disturbed about Karla's release? She's paid her debt and all that......

- because she received a deal she shouldnt have - sidestepping full justice, and consistently denying responsibility for her actions?

-because she appears as a sexual psychopath -creepily cold and remorseless- even for the death of her own sister?

-because she might do it again?
Whatever is lacking in her makeup as a human being (a soul?) - is it a compulsion that will lead her to re-offend?

I believe people are bothered for all of these reasons. The rarity of her actions as a woman play into the hoopla surrounding this case too.
Sexual predators, killers of strangers, are "almost" always male.
A woman generally figures into this depravity as a victim - not the perpertrator. It's unsettling to envision the reverse - defies the perception of the 'softer sex" that society holds of women. It's an aberration, one that repels - and yet fascinates a portion of the general public.
The stuff of movie deals. Sure,celebrity Karla. Maybe Larry King, a photo-shoot for Playboy.. Makes me ill.. :sick:

And the victim's families? I dont know how they deal with the fallout.
Few are destined to suffer the way they have - no one could begn to imagine.

If Aileen Wuornos was a "Monster" - Karla surely is too.
Aileen was executed - Karla's giving interviews and talking "careers".
Both of these outcomes are highly disturbing to many.

JDG
July 5th, 2005, 04:56 PM
tick tick tick. . .are this woman's 15 mins of 'fame' :rolleyes: up yet?

Lets just let this tread die down. . . .

I think she loves the media attention, and will be sad to see it go. So as a whole, lets not give her what she wants and yerns for. . . .I don't believe for a second she wants the cameras gone. . ..

I truly believe that someone will take the law into their own hands - I give her 6 months.

If she makes it that long - the constant harrassment or lack there of will drive her nuts, and I see her ending her own life. . . .

Either way - will that really be justice for Leslie and Kristen?

This is the type of subject that just gets people walking around in circles.

I for one don't care what happens to her, as long as I don't have to be subjected to it at every waking moment.

Luba
July 5th, 2005, 05:24 PM
She has NOT paid her debt!

She served some time incarcerated and that is all...she has definitely not completed her sentence. She has a long way to go for that!

heidiho
July 5th, 2005, 05:43 PM
aRE U KIDDING ME.PAID HER DEBT,SHE KILLED PEOPLE HER DEBT WILL NEVER BE PAID,OH YEAH AND RAPED.............................

heidiho
July 5th, 2005, 06:15 PM
Freed serial killer says she's not dangerous
After release from Canadian prison, Homolka giMONTREAL - Canada’s most notorious female inmate was secretly spirited from prison on Monday after serving 12 years for the rapes, torture and murders of three teenage girls, including her younger sister.

Karla Homolka, 35, received the relatively light sentence in return for her testimony against her ex-husband Paul Bernardo. Homolka told the court and psychiatrists she was a battered wife who took part in the rapes and murders to protect herself and her family.

Months after prosecutors made the deal, however, Bernardo’s attorneys handed over homemade videotapes by the couple that indicated Homolka was a willing participant.

Story continues below ↓
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“I don’t want to be hunted down,” Homolka told RDI, the CBC’s French language news network, after her release. “I don’t want people to think I am dangerous and I’m going to do something to their children.”

‘Unable to forgive myself’
“I’m unable to forgive myself. I think of what I’ve done and then often I think I don’t deserve to be happy because of this,” said Homolka, speaking in slightly accented French.

Homolka, who appeared drawn and tired, said she decided to give the interview after consulting with her lawyer. She plans to live in Quebec and acknowledged those in the French-speaking province know less about the horrific details of her case.

As Homolka was being released, her lawyers were in court seeking a ban against the media on covering her release and subsequent whereabouts.

Her lawyers and father have said she intended to resettle in Montreal, having learned French during her 12 years in a Quebec prison. Some believe she will first stay at the Elizabeth Fry Society halfway house for female inmates in Montreal, as she has received counseling and pledges of support from the private home for women.

Homolka became the symbol of evil in Canada in 1993 when she was convicted of manslaughter for her role in the kidnappings, rapes, sexual torture and murders of Ontario teenagers Kristen French and Leslie Mahaffy. She was also convicted in the 1990 death of her 15-year-old sister, Tammy, who died choking on her own vomit on Christmas Eve after Homolka held a drug-soaked cloth over her mouth while both she and her husband raped her.

Tim Danson, the lawyer representing the French and Mahaffy families, told The Associated Press his clients were stunned that Homolka was free.

“They thought that they had made the necessary mental and emotional adjustments to get ready for today, but when I gave them word that she’d been released, there was just stunned, painful silence,” Danson said in Toronto, the provincial capital of Ontario.

‘Enormous injustice’
“They are feeling just this huge, huge sense of loss and a sense of enormous injustice for what’s happened.”

Danson later called the Homolka interview “objectionable.”

“Without a doubt this is vintage Karla Homolka who is enjoying the limelight and manipulating the process to her benefit — at least she perceives it that way,” he said. Danson said he found it incredible that Homolka expressed sadness for her crimes, yet she has never apologized to his clients or expressed any remorse for their daughters’ deaths.

In return for her relatively light sentence, Homolka testified against Bernardo, a Toronto bookkeeper serving a life term for two counts of first-degree murder.

One of the videos released months later indicated Homolka had offered up Tammy as a Christmas gift to Bernardo in 1990; it showed Homolka performing oral sex on her unconscious sister after slipping sleeping pills in her alcohol.

In the following two years, the couple kidnapped and videotaped the rapes and beatings of 15-year-old Kristen, then 14-year-old Leslie, who was strangled by Bernardo with an electrical cord while the teenager held a teddy bear Homolka had given her for comfort.

By the time the videotapes were revealed, Homolka’s plea bargain had been sealed. But Canadians were outraged that she would be released in 12 years.

“People think she’s cheated the system,” said Jack Jadwab, executive director of the Association of Canadian Studies in Montreal. “A violent crime like this, publicized the way it is, represents to many Canadians a bit of a stain on our reputation for being a nonviolent society.”

Homolka — who has changed her name to Karla Teale — said she didn’t leave Bernardo because she was young and afraid of being abandoned.

“I did not have self-confidence. There are a lot of things about myself that I didn’t know that I know now,” Homolka said.

She said she wouldn’t offend again because she’s an adult.

Ontario prosecutors went back to court last month to successfully obtain restrictions on her movement and activities once she was free.

Intends to appeal
A judge ruled Homolka still posed a potential danger to society and ordered her to immediately report to police upon her release; banned her from contacting Bernardo or the families of their victims; said she must not come into contact with other violent offenders; must continue therapy and submit DNA samples to authorities.

Homolka intends to appeal, calling the restrictions a violation of her plea bargain.

Earlier Monday, one of her attorneys, Christian Lachance, told Quebec Superior Court Judge Maurice Lagace that his client was too afraid to testify at the hearing to consider a media blackout. Because Homolka’s safety could not be assured by police, he said the media must be prevented from reporting her whereabouts to protect her from threats against her life, mostly by Internet bloggers.

Another judge last week rejected a similar plea, saying it violated press freedoms.

Lagace ruled Monday that Homolka should defend her point of view the week of July 25, but it was not immediately clear whether she would appear in court.

Christian Leblanc, a lawyer representing the media, said Homolka is a public figure and the media has the right and an obligation to report on her whereabouts and activities.

© 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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ves radio interview

heidiho
July 5th, 2005, 06:19 PM
That is some sick crap,she should be rotting in jail forever.

Lizzie
July 5th, 2005, 06:55 PM
In my eyes, and the eyes of many, she'll never be able to repay her debt to society. As far as I'm concerned, she shouldn't be allowed to be a part of this society...she lost that right when she allowed/assisted in killing three innocent girls.

The day the three girls get their lives back is the day I might consider saying she's slightly nearer paying her debt to society.

moontamara
July 5th, 2005, 07:09 PM
I would never advocate a death sentence. Capitol Punishment is not something I believe in. This woman should have remained incarcerated for the remainder of her life. Thus protecting society, and innocent lives from her deviant mind.

Exactly. I don't agree with capital punishment either. Although I do believe in rehabilitation, I don't believe it is a factor in a case like this. I wish she was locked up forever.

heidiho
July 5th, 2005, 07:23 PM
I wonder what people would think if it was your child that was raped & murdered

Prin
July 5th, 2005, 08:05 PM
I don't need to have anybody near me to know how horrible it all is. I think if you followed the story from day one, read EVERY article about it, you'd feel differently. She is SMILING on the tapes. Victims don't smile so gleefully. Sorry, but no. Victims don't videotape.

People have gotten far more than 12 years for far less. She has not paid her debt to society. They made the deal before they knew the whole story. She will never have paid enough. :mad:

Luba
July 5th, 2005, 08:16 PM
I was personally involved with this case while Bernardo and Homolka were committing rapes and abductions. There is plenty the public is unaware of and plenty crimes, including the Scarborough rapes that neither of them faced any incarceration time for.

Kristen French was not the only girl in a school uniform to have been a victim of this man. The young girl who was then just a couple years younger then me was a friend of mine and we worked together in the same facility. And one day as she came into work ready to change into her uniform we exchanged our little hello's and she was preparing to start her shift. We worked in different departments but nonetheless were similar in age so friendly with eachother. I never saw Bernardo enter the property but I did see him leave. He was positively identified at that time....by a photograph and this is like uhm 1990 I think or maybe 89.

My friend was stalked for who knows how long..until one day he attacked her in the locker room and then got away....with his little skank driver there waiting for him. I know that every day she thinks she could have been dead.

The two murders they are convicted of are also not the only two they committed. Elizabeth Bain, went missing and is presumed murdered. Another girl from Scarborough, during the same time the rapes were occurring and just before their move to St. Catharines area. Moving because the trail was just too hot on them.

Elizabeth Bain's body was never recovered, her boyfriend instead spent many years incarcerated for a crime he never committed.

These two never convicted of it, though they were both in the area at the time. Both had contacts at the school she was going to and Bernardo lived only 3/4 mins from her abduction point.

There are atleast if not more then a dozen additional direct victims of these two horrible creatures of evil.

Cactus Flower
July 6th, 2005, 04:10 AM
Tis too bad she could not simply be banished into the desert

*Ahem*.

Littering is bad. Please do not throw your trash into my desert. We didn't throw Dahmer into Lake Simcoe, now did we :p ?

I find it very interesting that all of the Canadian posters here are against the death penalty. Unless I read wrong, the one person who is pro death penalty was Heidi-Ho, my American neighbor (New Mexico/Arizona). Hmm. My sociology prof would have a field day with this.

And then we'd argue :D .

BMDLuver
July 6th, 2005, 08:45 AM
I find it very interesting that all of the Canadian posters here are against the death penalty.
I'm definitely against the death penalty in this case. Lethal injection or however they kill them now is far to kind a death for either one of them. The fact that she can breathe fresh air drives me nuts. The fact that she is in Montreal infuriates me. The fact that she is allowed to have a life in the outside world is an atrocity. This case is beyond infuriating. I lived through it once in St. Catharines and am so sickened by the fact she has any form of freedom I can barely express it. I really cannot say with any honesty what I would do if I ran into her with my girls. That's how deep my hatred of her runs. I will never believe that she will not repeat these atrocities given the chance. She thinks she was afraid when living with Paul, welcome to living in the outside world. Quebecers are not a forgiving breed as she so thinks. So when you sit at your computer Karla and read all the attention you are getting, think long and hard because the day of retribution will come. As long as you breathe live life in fear.

Melinda
July 6th, 2005, 09:06 AM
canadian here...and I'm FOR the death penalty, but......and I may be just as much a sicko as some in prison, I think they should bring back public flogging, put her in the city center and allow the victims friends and families 15 minutes with her....."then they'll be the same as her you say"? Maybe...but they will rid of us and the world of a cruel pitiful excuse for a human.
and people wonder why we love our dogs more.

pags
July 6th, 2005, 10:14 AM
I have really found this thread interesting as I had previously only a cursory knowledge of this case -- and reading your posts motivated me to start looking up more info (what little there is available...) Since we've touched on the death penalty thing -- I thought I'd throw in the American red herring: I do not believe in Capital Punishment under any circumstances. I do believe in rehabilitation -- however I do not believe that rehabilitation should necessarily mean release from prison. A truly rehabilitated person convicted of a heinous crime would surely understand their need for continued isolation from society. That's my two cents. :D

heidiho
July 6th, 2005, 10:39 AM
I am 100% for the death penalty,you kill someone,you have given up your rights to your life...Yeah living in prison for the rest of your life would suck,but u still get to live.No way,i do not want to pay to keep these people alive when they killed innocent people,I say save some money and put them to death,.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

heidiho
July 6th, 2005, 10:41 AM
AND ABOUT REHABILITATION,I CANT COUNT HOW MANY TIMES I HAVE READ STORIES OF CHILD MOLESTERS,THAT WERE LET OUT OF JAIL AFTER SERVING THERE TIME,TO GO AND DO SOMETHING WORSE,LIKE MOLESTING AND KILLING,THEY ARE HUMAN WASTE ALSO I SAY DEATH FOR THEM ALSO.......................... :usa: :usa:

heidiho
July 6th, 2005, 11:21 AM
Why are u against the death penalty in this case?????This is a prime case to me where someone should get the death penalty??

Beaglemom
July 6th, 2005, 11:24 AM
I don't believe Karla got the sentence she deserved. But, I do want her to live in fear for the rest of her life. To never know who is watching and what they might do and when her last day will be. I want her to have to watch her back for the rest of her life, however long that will be. I want her to feel the pain and fear she made all those girls feel.

I too saw her interview and found it to be horrible. She did not look like she had one ounce of remorse for what her and her exhusband had done. Not one tear was shed! Did she honestly believe that the viewers would buy her obviously very rehearsed and carefully chosen words? It only served to infuriate me even more!

She is obviously not that bright. She wants people to leave her alone and she wants to live a normal life, so she thinks the best way to do this is going on TV and broadcast what she looks like?

I don't believe she should live a normal life. In my eyes she doesn't have that right. She lost her rights when she decided all her victims had no rights either and ended their lives. She also took the rights of her victims' family members.

Writing4Fun
July 6th, 2005, 11:45 AM
Why are u against the death penalty in this case?????This is a prime case to me where someone should get the death penalty??
I'm against the death penalty because a) I'm not God and so it is not up to me to decide who lives and who dies, and b) two wrongs do not make a right, and if I kill her in anger, then I'm no better than she is.

I will gladly have my tax dollars pay to have her stuck in prison for the rest of her natural life if it means keeping my family safe from a known monster, but only if that means she gets the "real" prison treatment - not this spa farce she's been getting so far. This whole "prisoners have rights too" is a load of you-know-what. She violated someone else's rights, she doesn't deserve to keep her own. If all our animals are entitled to by law is food, water and shelter, then that's all she should get as well.

Schwinn
July 6th, 2005, 11:49 AM
I'm against the death penalty because there are too many instances where a mistake was made, and the person was innocent. While I agree that the evidence here is pretty damning, and I don't think a mistake would be made, everyone one of those people who spent years in prison to be released were also considered guilty beyond a doubt. If you're going to have a death penalty, it should be applied unilaterally. And until they come up with a way to ensure no one is wrongfully convicted, I'm against it.

That being said, if they did have it, I'd like them to allow the person to live thier life without being in prison, and thier execution will come at a random time. That way, they can walk around in fear, never knowing.

heidiho
July 6th, 2005, 12:14 PM
I do agree to many innocent people get executed,i am talking about cases like this where there is no doubt you know the person did do it,not a case like say Michael Jackson where there was no solid evidence,if i had a child and someone raped and killed them,i would have NO problem with them dying.................

Luba
July 6th, 2005, 12:33 PM
To those in agreeance with the death penalty:

What gives you that right? Are you then not as guilty of the same offence as those you wish to execute?

heidiho
July 6th, 2005, 12:44 PM
When u make the choice to go out there and kill innocent people that is when u have given up your right to live and given it to the courts,killing innocent people is alot different to me then killing the piece of crap that did it,i have no problem taking a life of someone that kills people,i do not feel that makes me just like them......It is alot different to me........

Writing4Fun
July 6th, 2005, 12:55 PM
i do not feel that makes me just like them......It is alot different to me........
Why is it different, though? Not to say that I'm right and you're wrong. I'm just curious as to your reasoning. You've now (hypothecially, of course ;) ) taken a life in anger. It wasn't an accident. It was planned, pre-meditated. It was done maliciously. Just because the person you're murdering is also a murderer, that makes it ok? Food for thought...

twinmommy
July 6th, 2005, 12:57 PM
and if I kill her in anger, then I'm no better than she is


Too bad it takes on average 7 years on death row before we finally decide ourselves though. :rolleyes:Your anger would definitely have faded some. Not sure which is a bigger waste of taxpayers $$ that route, or incarcerating the ba$tards for life.

Good job, I'm not a judge, the bloody chair would be a smokin' assembly line!! :evil: :evil:

twinmommy
July 6th, 2005, 01:02 PM
Luba- It's about punishment, there has to be an ultimate price to pay. Criminals laugh at our system as it is. It's also about justice for the victims and their families. Most people's opinions change if you put things on a more personal level. "What is it was your daughter/son/sister/mother..."etc.

Luba
July 6th, 2005, 01:08 PM
Justice and punishment doesn't have to mean death! Why are so many feeling that death is the ultimate punishment? It's not, it's more the ultimate revenge to some of you rather then punishment.

For dangerous offenders like the Bernardo's / Homolka's of the world I'd be amply satisfied to keep them locked away for the remainder of their lives.

Why as a society are people so hell bent on revenge, because that is what execution is...it's not about them it's about you!

twinmommy
July 6th, 2005, 01:14 PM
Why as a society are people so hell bent on revenge, because that is what execution is...it's not about them it's about you!


ummm, how's that?


I'm not hell bent on revenge, I'm hell bent on justice.

If we had more a system in place, maybe criminals would think twice before committing their atrocities. Most of them are not afraid of falling into the penal system because it means just that--makeovers, free lodging, and a university degree.

pags
July 6th, 2005, 01:28 PM
I uh.. kinda feel like I'm walking into the wolves' den waving a piece of salami here but uhm... Why is it that when we euthanize an animal or (heaven forbid) advocate euthanasia for the sick and elderly it's about 'mercy' and being 'humane'... But when we speak of euthanizing criminals, in effect, it is 'punishment'?

Just a thought.

*wince*

Cactus Flower
July 6th, 2005, 01:39 PM
This thread is truly fascinating! So many diverse opinions.

I support the death penalty in cases where the crime/perpetrator is caught on tape, confessions supported by DNA evidence, confessions supported by detailed accounts of the crime and location of the body, and cases supported by more than two seperate findings of DNA evidence (not just "your hair was found in the victim's house").

Given any of these circumstances, I could pull the switch myself. It would not be "revenge" or anger, as the person hasn't done anything to me personally. It would be justice for the family of the victims(s). And it wouldn't make me the same as them, because I wouldn't have done what they did (i.e entrap, rape, torture and kill a young girl). If I were allowed to do to them what they did to their victims (and if they'd killed my child, I'd be more than willing to), then perhaps it would bring me down to their level- but if that were exactly the case, I don't think I would care.


The revenge angle could also be said about putting someone in prison for life, or making someone look over their shoulder in fear after they are released, etc. All of these things could be called revenge, but I don't believe it is. It is punishment. That includes capital punishment.

doggy lover
July 6th, 2005, 01:44 PM
I wish someone would off the B----. Get it over with and then we will never have to worry about her again.

Luba
July 6th, 2005, 01:45 PM
How can it be justice for the victims/families if they don't want the death penalty themselves?

How many families have pleaded with judges to not enforce the death penalty to simply not had their wishes met.

IF it was all about the rights of the victims and the family, wouldn't it not be their decision and NOT yours.

I would NEVER want it on my mind, in my soul and filtering through my being that I had anything whatsoever to do with the death of another living soul. I could not encourage it, could not support it and would NEVER advocate it.

Those of you so determined to have someone pay for their crimes by death, feel it's for the families of those who have suffered, yet none of you I am sure have spoken to them directly. Sure there would be those who would agree with the death penalty but there are just as many who don't .

Those who have been sentenced to death after victims families have pleaded for them not to be...how lovely. Now lets just revictimize those families again. Now they have the weight of that on their minds as they go to sleep at night.

Shameful!

twinmommy
July 6th, 2005, 01:46 PM
interesting thought Pags.....heh heh :evil:

I don't think of it as euthanizing the criminals...euthanasia is the ultimate respect in my mind. Not to be confused with criminals.....I can see how you made the junction though....

*double wince* ;)

twinmommy
July 6th, 2005, 01:57 PM
How many families have pleaded with judges to not enforce the death penalty to simply not had their wishes met.

Not sure... I HAVE seen however the pathos of families when came time for the judge to sentence/plea bargain with the criminal(s) in question. A "light" or "easy" sentence is brutal for the family to bear.

I can see your point about killing other living things, being involved in their deaths, and no I don't think it makes things more bearable for the victims.

Donning my flame suit in the heat of all this morality,I certainly cannot advocate all the MONEY that it costs to incarcerate these morons for life, although I believe that keeping their sorry a$$es on death row for 7 years is costly as well.

Gotta figure out a way accelerate the process.... :eek: :evil:

*dons suit and triple winces** :evil:

Cactus Flower
July 6th, 2005, 02:01 PM
Obviously, if the family of the victim(s) does not want the death penalty, then the death penalty would not mean justice for the family- and should not be enforced.

Those of you so determined to have someone pay for their crimes by death, feel it's for the families of those who have suffered, yet none of you I am sure have spoken to them directly

Actually I HAVE spoken to families of murder victims. I even happened to have spoken to the murderER, on several occasions. Take a look at these:

http://www.abbeys.com.au/items.asp?productcode=0786016035
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLD%2CGGLD%3A2005-08%2CGGLD%3Aen&q=leslie+engh


We had our own serial killer here- Bobby Fry- and he brought along a sidekick for two of the murders (Leslie Engh).

On the day of his sentencing, the families of the murder victims, along with the public, all held up signs that said "FRY Fry". He has been sentenced to death, and the families anxiously await his execution.

heidiho
July 6th, 2005, 02:21 PM
I would be ok with that also letting the family decide.Not a bad idea either...........

Beaglemom
July 6th, 2005, 02:24 PM
I'm somewhat on the fence about whether or not I agree with the death penalty. In some ways I understand why people would want to go that route and then in other ways in order to give the death sentence, there has to be no doubt whatsoever that the person on trial is guilty. Many times a person has been tried and convicted and then turned out to be innocent. What would happen if they had been given the death sentence and it had already been carried out? I'm sure there are numerous cases where innocent people did die on the chair or through lethal injection. Or even hanged back in the old days.

In some ways, I believe that the death penalty is just an easy way out for the criminal. They did the crime and then lights out. They don't ever have to think about the crime again or suffer for it. I know that they have to wait and wake up every morning not knowing if that day is their last. But, I still find it too easy. I want them to suffer a bit more for what they did. I believe they should feel the fear that their victims felt and the pain that the families go through every day. If that is being revengeful, than so be it.

I believe that our prison system is way to lenient. They live better in prison than many people do outside of prison working honest day to day jobs. That is not fair. Make it tougher on the inmates.

LavenderRott
July 6th, 2005, 02:24 PM
The cost of keeping a prisoner in jail for life is LESS then the cost to put a person to death. Generally speaking, legal fees for the number of appeals that a death row prisoner is entitled to is higher because they have more appeals that they are allowed to make.

heidiho
July 6th, 2005, 02:29 PM
I agree it has to be without a doubt before putting someone to death,and whether it is cheaper to keep them alive or not i am still for the death penalty.....

Prin
July 6th, 2005, 02:58 PM
They should instate a law that says, "If you are Paul Bernardo, Karla Homolka, or any alias of the above, and you kill 3 innocent young girls (that we know of), then you must die by lethal injection." That way, these two get the death penalty, and the "innocents" on death row are spared... for now. I'm sure no one would mind. :evil:

What I have to ask is: to anybody who says she has done her time: did you really pay attention from the time it all came out and they were arrested up until now? I have to ask because if you are just hearing about it now and you missed the details, the really fresh details, you would probably feel a lot differently than those of us who were as in it as we could be.

heidiho
July 6th, 2005, 03:01 PM
When it comes to rape,murder or child molestation,there is never a He or she has done there time...Someone that has been raped or molested will have that with them forever,you serving your 6 or 7 years then getting out and living your life is not doing your time to me...

Prin
July 6th, 2005, 03:11 PM
I don't know about anybody else, but for me, KNOWING there is a videotape of the rape and rape and torture and rape of my daughter/friend/cousin/mom would be... *shakes head* How do you go on?

heidiho
July 6th, 2005, 03:12 PM
Shasta Groene Details Kidnapping Ordeal
Shasta Groene, the 8-year-old rescued from a wanted sex offender on Saturday morning in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, has told police that Joseph Edward Duncan III was the man who entered her home, tied up her family and took her and her 9-year-old brother, Dylan, to at least two remote campsites, PEOPLE reports in its upcoming issue.

The little girl also says her captor repeatedly molested her and Dylan – who authorities believe was killed, according to court papers filed July 5.

Shasta was found at a Denny's restaurant, where a waitress spotted her having breakfast with Duncan. Shasta's mother, Brenda Groene, 40; her boyfriend, Mark McKenzie, 37; and Shasta's brother Slade McKenzie, 13 (one of Groene's five children), were found killed in their home. The three victims had been bound and beaten to death.

On Monday, two days after Shasta's rescue, police – acting on tips – also discovered human remains in western Montana. DNA tests will show if they are Dylan's.

At his court hearing Tuesday, Duncan gulped, sniffled and finally wept as a district court judge arraigned him on two felony counts of kidnapping with intent to commit rape – one each for Shasta and Dylan – and ordered him held without bail, PEOPLE reports. In Idaho, the charges, if convicted, could lead to the death penalty.

For now, investigators are gently questioning Shasta, who is being kept for observation at the Kootenai Medical Center in Coeur d'Alene. It was there that she was reunited with her father, Steve Groene, who works at a recycling center.

Spokesmen for the FBI and Kootenai County Sheriff's Office tell the Associated Press that they are balancing concerns for her well-being with the needs of the investigation, but it will be a medical decision when she will be released.

Despite her ordeal, Shasta is "thrilled" by the deluge of stuffed animals sent to her by well-wishers, her great-aunt Sue Torres tells PEOPLE. "The whole room is full, and she just beams."



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heidiho
July 6th, 2005, 03:13 PM
Just wanted to put this here,perfect example of what i am talikng about this just happened here in the US, he does not deserve to live in my eyes no way, no how...........................

pags
July 6th, 2005, 03:24 PM
By the way -- I do not think Karla has done her time. Her time should be her lifetime and the same is true of many many criminals who do very well get off too easily for the things they've done. And I also agree that prisons have often become jokes... Sort of like staying in a hotel with a broken room key for a while. It shouldn't be a trip to a spa or a chance to write that book you've always been meaning to get around to...How about aiming for somewhere between a Turkish prison and summer camp at least.

BMDLuver
July 6th, 2005, 03:31 PM
I don't know about anybody else, but for me, KNOWING there is a videotape of the rape and rape and torture and rape of my daughter/friend/cousin/mom would be... *shakes head* How do you go on?
The videotapes have all been destroyed in a large bonfire conducted by the families and those still alive.

Those of you so determined to have someone pay for their crimes by death, feel it's for the families of those who have suffered, yet none of you I am sure have spoken to them directly. Sure there would be those who would agree with the death penalty but there are just as many who don't .
As I said, I don't feel the death penalty is good enough. I have spoken with families of two of the victim's still living and I don't think any tears would have been shed if she had been sentenced to death. I do know they would prefer that she remain behind bars for the rest of her natural life.

doggy lover
July 6th, 2005, 03:41 PM
Too bad the parents could not give her what she deserves, if she had done it to one of my children I don't think I could see her drinking Iced coffee while my child lie dead in a grave because of her and her ex's sick fanticies. I'd probably rip her face off.

Prin
July 6th, 2005, 03:50 PM
The videotapes have all been destroyed in a large bonfire conducted by the families and those still alive.

Wow, that must have been a terrible day.

Shamrock
July 6th, 2005, 03:58 PM
Very interesting discussion!
If murder is a sin .. is the state sinful to put to death their criminals?
Is there a "retribution" clause whereby its ok?
How about revenge?
Any eye for an eye - but only if govt-sanctioned?

Mistakes ARE made in our justice system. The person let off too lightly (Karla) or who escapes prison entirely (OJ Simpson) garner far more public outcry than ones who are on the flip side.

What of the David Milgards? What if he was executed? ..oops. And thats just one of many where justice failed in the reverse...

Justice for the familes? Yes, we deeply feel that they deserve this, and they most certainly do. But some do come to the realization that taking another life solves nothing. Even if they wished their loved one's killer to be killed.. it may not be a legal option. Peace and acceptance must come another way..and we wish with all our hearts that they find this somehow to alleviate their sorrow. Bitterness and rage destroy the spirit.

It sickens me that Creepy Karla is free, as it sickens most people. She said she doesnt "deserve to be happy"? Happy? She should be thankful that she's still alive and drawing breath. Many feel she doesnt deserve to be, she knows it. And in some countries -she wouldnt be.
May she live her life in fear that it will be snuffed out one day- the way her young victims lives were. May every car backfire strike terror in her heart (if she had one) May every stranger approaching, every knock on her door have her pulse racing( if she had one)

But for the death penalty? I'm glad that we dont have this in Canada.
Incidentally, a bit off-topic, but do you find the gleeful people hanging around prisons and courhouse to "celebrate" executions (or a death sentence) frighteningly creepy and disturbing?
I sure do.
They're ghoulish.Hair's breath away from a lynch mob.

nymph
July 6th, 2005, 04:04 PM
I have a good friend who works for Canadian Correctional Services, and she had the chance to visit the prison in Kingston 2 years ago. Do you know how much we need to keep a male prisoner in prison per year? 65000 dollars! Female prisoners cost even more: about 110000 dollars a year! In minimum security prisons, they have grocery stores, gyms, restaurants, they live in condo units and are given pocket money to spend on cigarettes and beers. For conjugal visits, every prisoner can book the entire condo unit just to themselves.

I support the death penalty because some criminals don't deserve to live anymore. People like Bernardo has long forfeited their right to live! Keeping him in jail for life ain't gonna cut it for the family of the victims!

nymph
July 6th, 2005, 04:09 PM
I want them to suffer a bit more for what they did. I believe they should feel the fear that their victims felt and the pain that the families go through every day. If that is being revengeful, than so be it.


Oh I completely disagree! I want those criminals to suffer A LOT MORE for what they did!

heidiho
July 6th, 2005, 04:13 PM
I am with you some people dont deserve to live anymore.Jeffery Damher, John Wayne Gacy,Richard Ramirez just to name afew........... :usa: I am 100% for death penalty if you know just like with these guys woithout a doubt they did it,tell you one thing someone kidnapped my child and killed them and then ate them,i would flip the switch myself...........

Luba
July 6th, 2005, 04:13 PM
Thank you Shamrock!

heidiho
July 6th, 2005, 04:19 PM
Well we know those guys did murdered and eat those people[jeff damher] so there is no chance of making a mistake and killing an innocent person there.So no i cannot even compare and say that we are just as bad by putting them to death,we are not going to there house and raping them ,torturing them then killing them,THEY DID,we are putting the end to a life that they gave up...I do not think that makes us as bad as them,that is actually a joke to even say to me................................................ ......................

Prin
July 6th, 2005, 04:21 PM
Can you imagine if she re-offends? Can you imagine how many people will want the death penalty then?

sammiec
July 6th, 2005, 04:21 PM
EXCELLENT post Shamrock. I completely agree.

Cactus Flower
July 6th, 2005, 04:30 PM
I am with you some people dont deserve to live anymore.Jeffery Damher

Interesting what happened to Dahmer in prison. He was put in a room with an inmate that had been openly threatening his life for a looooooong time. They were told to mop the floor, and then the guards left them alone. The inmate killed him, of course.

So, I suppose he got a death sentence, after all.

The people who were against the death penalty, even in his case, certainly did not stand up and scream at the injustice of him being killed in prison by another inmate. Yet they would have done so if we had given him a (rather humane method, in my opinion) lethal injection.

pags
July 6th, 2005, 04:33 PM
Incidentally, a bit off-topic, but do you find the gleeful people hanging around prisons and courhouse to "celebrate" executions (or a death sentence) frighteningly creepy and disturbing?
I sure do.
They're ghoulish.Hair's breath away from a lynch mob.

I'm always glad to be the one to go a bit off topic. :rolleyes: But egad I have a very very difficult time seeing how the gleeful execution 'groupies' are any less horrible and terrifying than the murderers they condemn! They aren't a hair's breath away, Shamrock - they ARE a lynch mob quite literally.

Can't we all step back just a little every now and then.. and see tragedy where tragedy lies? On all sides? I don't mean we should sit around and feel really sorry for brutal killers to the detriment of friends and family and society at large... But how about a moment of grief for their lost humanity? And a moment of grief for the humanity we lose at the same time?

Luba
July 6th, 2005, 04:42 PM
How very deep Pags and clearly gets to the deeper meaning of things rather then the surface.

Whether she reoffends or not it is not our place to kill her, not our decision not our revenge and definitely not justice.

Cactus Flower
July 6th, 2005, 04:48 PM
Pags, you're awesome.

Shamrock
July 6th, 2005, 04:49 PM
Pags - After a hundred posts, and from every angle - you've cut to the very heart of the matter.
WELL SAID!

Luba
July 6th, 2005, 04:49 PM
CF u gonna print this out for a class project :D

Lizzie
July 6th, 2005, 05:19 PM
I think that the first step in changing people's mind about the death penalty would be to have our prison system change here in Canada. Prison is not an unkind place here--they have movies, the internet, telelvison, workout equipment, etc. In many cases, criminals actually have more in prison than they would have in their lives outside of prison....

I wouldn't be in favour of the death penalty if i thought for one second that prison was actually a terrible place to be. Club Fed...whatever you want to call it....we've got a poor system here and only once it's a horrible place to be will I consider it better than the dealth penalty for certain cases.

heidiho
July 6th, 2005, 05:23 PM
The day prisons are like they are in third world countries,like prisons i have seen on discovery channel documentaries, maybe i would change my mind about the death penalty,but i still think you take a life you should not get to live yours...

Writing4Fun
July 6th, 2005, 05:33 PM
Prison is not an unkind place here--they have movies, the internet, telelvison, workout equipment, etc. In many cases, criminals actually have more in prison than they would have in their lives outside of prison....
AMEN! You're right, that is Step 1. Change the system. Make prison feel like prison, not a week-end spa. Internet? What the heck do they need internet for?? :confused: Anyone up for a petition? :p

Schwinn
July 6th, 2005, 05:36 PM
I think trying to argue on moral grounds about the death penalty is a lot like aruging vegan vs meat eaters. One side says it's natural, the other says it's immoral, and you aren't going to be able to change someone's moral convictions. I think in certain cases, morality is a grey area, and the death penalty is one of those. With such diverse religious and ethnic convictions, it's tough to argue against either side based on morality. The devout christian can argue God's will all day, but the atheist won't be swayed by that arguement. (I'm not saying anyone who picks either side is religious or atheist, just using an example). You can argue why or why not, but it's tough to argue morals when they are ingrained in ones beliefs. Opinions might be swayed, morals aren't nearly as easy.

Myself, I don't believe the death penalty is much of a deterrant. So then it comes down to is it a sufficient punishment? I guess it depends on what you think happens after death. Personally, I'd like the person to stick around for a while sitting in thier cell then give them a needle and end it right away.

heidiho
July 6th, 2005, 05:42 PM
I agree i would like them to know they are going to die in a couple of years so the week before their execution they can suffer and know they only have a week left to live,yeah i like that,that is a good punishnment for me...

Safyre
July 6th, 2005, 11:06 PM
Personally, I'd like the person to stick around for a while sitting in thier cell then give them a needle and end it right away.
I agree i would like them to know they are going to die in a couple of years so the week before their execution they can suffer and know they only have a week left to live,yeah i like that,that is a good punishnment for me...

Not sure if that is what Schwinn meant Heidiho.

My opinion is, if the person regrets their crime, let their conscience eat them alive in prison for the rest of their days. Their mind will torture them more than we ever can.
IF the person does not regret, or havea conscience (ie, Manson) kill them, as that would be the worse punishment.

I believe for those who honestly regret, a death sentence is an easy out, and I will not let anyone have an easy out.
I also belive that child molesters need to have harsher sentences, and that not only murderers should be put to death (with the above rules, imo)

Prin
July 6th, 2005, 11:47 PM
My mom's ex used to end up in prison for a few months when he couldn't find a job. Better in there than unemployed?

susieqt
July 6th, 2005, 11:47 PM
Lets not forget Karla's parents; they have already lost their daughter Tammy thanks to Karla and Paul; I wonder how they would feel if Karla died? How does a parent go through a nightmare like this??? It must be horrible for them.

Cactus Flower
July 7th, 2005, 12:05 AM
Susieqt, I haven't "met" you before. Hello, and welcome! You bring up an interesting point about the parents. Wow, that's a tough one.

I believe for those who honestly regret, a death sentence is an easy out Most of them regret their crimes, once they are caught. If they truly regret them before they are caught, and see death as an easy out, they can certainly take that easy out on their own. But they don't.

Lizzie
July 7th, 2005, 08:59 AM
My opinion is, if the person regrets their crime, let their conscience eat them alive in prison for the rest of their days. Their mind will torture them more than we ever can.
IF the person does not regret, or havea conscience (ie, Manson) kill them, as that would be the worse punishment.

I believe for those who honestly regret, a death sentence is an easy out, and I will not let anyone have an easy out.
I also belive that child molesters need to have harsher sentences, and that not only murderers should be put to death (with the above rules, imo)

I'm not sure that we could ever know whether or not the source of regret was from the fact that the convicted was caught, or from the actual act of committing a crime. The one thing that we need to remember is that these people clearly have some sort of behavioural, moral and/or mental issues that go far beyond simply regretting what they've done.

For me, simply regretting an action doesn't negate the fact that a crime was committed and that justice needs to be served. I'm fine with prison terms...however, like I already mentioned, take a look at how lax our prison system is. It's a vacation for many of these people....it's not a concrete box with a metal bed, void of all outside communication. It's nothing like that...the prison in Monopoly is far more scary to me than the real prisons we have here.

heidiho
July 7th, 2005, 09:45 AM
I know he didnt i meant i agree with them hanging around for awhile.

Schwinn
July 7th, 2005, 11:10 AM
I'll be honest, there are people on death row not knowing when it's going to happen, and I'm glad. But in general, I do oppose capital punishment just because we don't have a flawless justice system. The other thing is, I don't think execution is the same punishment for everyone. It depends on thier own views. Some believe in re-incarnation, that death is a clean slate. They die, all is forgiven, and they come back. Some feel that if they repent at the last minute, they'll go to a higher plain (ie Heaven). Seems to me that's a pretty good thing. For others, they think they will suffer eternal hell, so obviously, death row would be the ultimate punishment. I think if we're trying to punish someone, it isn't always going to achieve that result, unless we can truly determine how much of a punishment it is for them. Also, I've heard many interviews of "lifers" who said they wish thier state had capital punishment so they could get it over with. If we're doing it for revenge, then that opens a whole other can of worms. But again, is it revenge if the person who is being put to death prefers that, possibly even welcomes it? The only way I can see death being the peferred solution is if the sole purpose is to eliminate someone from being able to re-offend. In that case, it's pretty effective.

heidiho
July 7th, 2005, 11:31 AM
Just like what just happend in London,if they caught the people that did that,i 100 % think they should get the death peanlty,or 9/11 if they lived through it,they should get the death penalty

doggy lover
July 7th, 2005, 11:34 AM
I'm just hopeing that all my family back home are ok.

Prin
July 7th, 2005, 12:30 PM
Me too :fingerscr . I used to work there, and I hope all me work buddies are ok. The day after they announce the Olympics will be there in 2012. :sad:

Bearsmom
July 7th, 2005, 04:24 PM
Just heard today about what happened in London, and am terribly sorry to hear it.

Here's an interesting thought: if (God forbid) one of your family members were injured or killed in that blast, and they caught whomever did it, how would you feel about the death penalty then?

I'm all for the death penalty. The Homolka/Bernardo duo took one of my family members. They should pay like they made our family pay.

Bernardo is NOT suffering in prison. He has internet, television, x box and all of his rights carefully protected.

I'm all for that sheriff down in the US (sorry, but I can't remember where he's from and what his name is), who has brought back chain gangs, etc. Now THAT'S prison.

doggy lover
July 7th, 2005, 04:34 PM
I'd be the first in line to cast a stone.

Shamrock
July 7th, 2005, 05:59 PM
Here's an interesting thought: if (God forbid) one of your family members were injured or killed in that blast, and they caught whomever did it, how would you feel about the death penalty then?

Bearsmom, with some things in life we simply cannot predict what our reactions would be, or if our views would change.
We may "think" we know - but do we really?

Would I change my mind on the death penalty if a loved one, my child, became a murder victim ( if opposed to it)
Would I change my mind on the death penalty if the person on death row WAS my child (if in favour of)

Or, a different example:
Would I be a hero, a coward, or a mere onlooker if faced with a life and death emergency requiring my intervention?

I dont know the answer to any of those questions.
Most of us will never be put to such tests of our values, ideals and beliefs.

Schwinn
July 7th, 2005, 06:08 PM
Just heard today about what happened in London, and am terribly sorry to hear it.

Here's an interesting thought: if (God forbid) one of your family members were injured or killed in that blast, and they caught whomever did it, how would you feel about the death penalty then?

I'd rather hang them by the eyelids and beat them in the genitals until they blinked. Over, and over and over again. I'd want them to suffer long and hard.


I'm all for that sheriff down in the US (sorry, but I can't remember where he's from and what his name is), who has brought back chain gangs, etc. Now THAT'S prison.

Couldn't agree more on that one! :thumbs up

Prin
July 7th, 2005, 06:11 PM
I'd rather hang them by the eyelids and beat them in the genitals until they blinked. Over, and over and over again. I'd want them to suffer long and hard. Hear that everybody? Don't cross Schwinn! :D I pity the foo' who tries to date your daughter...

Writing4Fun
July 7th, 2005, 06:27 PM
Hear that everybody? Don't cross Schwinn! :D I pity the foo' who tries to date your daughter...
ROTFLMAO! I'll be sure to warn my boys!!http://bestsmileys.com/scared/8.gif

Cactus Flower
July 7th, 2005, 09:07 PM
Would I change my mind on the death penalty if a loved one, my child, became a murder victim ( if opposed to it)
Would I change my mind on the death penalty if the person on death row WAS my child (if in favour of)

Shamrock, you FLOORED me with this.

I have heard (and used) the scenario "What if someone killed YOUR child- would you support the death penalty then?", many times.

But I have never- NEVER- heard anyone say "What if YOUR child was on death row? Would you support the death penalty then?".

I am ashamed of myself for having never thought of this. I considered myself to be a pretty open-minded person, and one who comes to an educated, well thought-out position on anything this important. I believed I had considered all perspectives, before deciding (years ago) that I support the death penalty.

Not so.

You brought me to my knees, with that one simple question: Would I change my mind on the death penalty if the person on death row WAS my child ?

I have had a hundred conversations/debates about the death penalty. And nobody has ever said anything that made me reconsider my position, in the least.

Until your post.

THANK YOU, Shamrock, for making me really think.

My head is spinning. So many thoughts racing through my mind right now.... "Everybody on death row is SOMEbody's child......does the death penalty punish the family of the perpetrator?.........is that fair?....If my son was sitting on death row, would I honestly STILL say I support the death penalty, because if I wouldn't, then I've been a hypocrite all along!......"

:confused: :sad: :eek: :confused: :( :eek:

Cactus Flower
July 7th, 2005, 09:27 PM
The Homolka/Bernardo duo took one of my family members.

Terribly sorry for your loss, Bearsmom.
:sad:

Bearsmom
July 7th, 2005, 10:00 PM
It affected my mom more than anything, but watching my mother suffer through this really changed me. It was a long while ago, but this whole Karla getting out thing has reopened the wounds for my mom again, and with all the other things she's coping with in her life, it's pretty tough to watch. I hope someone takes out Karla, and soon.

Kismutt
July 7th, 2005, 10:02 PM
There are some B.C. people on this forum.....I was just thinking about that poor Rena Kirk teenager who was killed by that gang of teenagers out in B.C.

Kelly Ellard?? I think was her name that was the one charged with murder? And she is not even in jail at this time, am I correct? Both Karla H. and Kelly Ellard deserve the death penalty IMO. So sad for the victims families.

Kismutt
July 7th, 2005, 10:07 PM
It affected my mom more than anything, but watching my mother suffer through this really changed me. It was a long while ago, but this whole Karla getting out thing has reopened the wounds for my mom again, and with all the other things she's coping with in her life, it's pretty tough to watch. I hope someone takes out Karla, and soon.

It puts a lump in my throat thinking about it, Bearsmom. Not to worry, Karla H will never be able to live a normal life, the public will make sure of that.

pags
July 7th, 2005, 10:20 PM
I'm all for that sheriff down in the US (sorry, but I can't remember where he's from and what his name is), who has brought back chain gangs, etc. Now THAT'S prison.

(Just to throw in a little US Southern State trivia for you - it was the governor of Alabama in 1994 or 1995, Fob James, who reinstated the use of chain gangs in the state. Please note that Mr. James campaigned for the office of governor with reinstatement of chain gangs as part of his platform. Apparently a lot of people in the state agreed with you, bearsmom. :o In 1996, the state lost a legal challenge on the grounds that chain gangs constituted cruel and unusual punishment and agreed that prisoners would no longer be chained together when working but could be individually in shackles. Since that time I know that the use of shackles even individually has been hotly debated. Further tangent -- prisoners here in Mississippi are often used for road and construction projects, disaster relief/debris removal, or other manual labor tasks.. though in all cases it is required that the prisoners agree to the work.)

db7
July 7th, 2005, 11:54 PM
I am absolutely against the death penalty. Don't get me wrong, I'm far on the right-wing on this one, in a progressive kinda way.

First my preogressive thoughts.

I believe that all mental illnesses and the motivations behind the worst, most disgusting anti-social behaviors are curable. I believe that all psychotic/neurotic criminals can be re-habilititated.

However, the current knowledge of humanity is not advanced or experienced enough to solve these problems.

So, here's my hard right perspective. Don't kill these horrid humans that have practised the most disgusting things.


USE them to study and learn what made them what they are.

They are a resource, only when we understand what makes these people monsters can we work qnd succeed at eliminating this kind of person from our society.

Do whatever is needed to them regardless of their suffering in order to learn how to eliminate the temperament from the human breed.

To me that is how one of these types can begin to payback society.

Prin
July 7th, 2005, 11:56 PM
Wow, Bearsmom. This story affected my whole life and I was on the outside. I can't imagine being in it. That's horrible and terrible and leaves me speechless. :grouphug: :sad:

db7
July 8th, 2005, 12:14 AM
And I should add, I doubt she is long for this world, the people will re-sentence her, i'm certain.

And I was sickened about how the CBC was used by her. It's disgusting that our National broadcaster gave her live time and organized it quietly before her release.

It is disgusting that our own national media is making a celebrity of her.

AND HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT HOW MUCH MONEY FROM OUR TAXES WERE PAID TO HOMOLKA TO GIVE AN EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW? YES. YOU GOT TO KNOW SHE WAs PAID.

And she totally played the cbc,

She's an attention whore and the cbc played HER game.

I'm disgusted, She should be used like a lab rat.

Shamrock
July 8th, 2005, 05:05 PM
"The Homolka/Bernardo duo took one of my family members."

Oh,Bearsmom,.... I dont know how, but somehow I missed this.

I am so sorry for your family's loss. :grouphug:
I cant begin to imagine the devastation and pain of this tragedy.

This would be an issue then not just close to your heart, but part of your soul, I'm sure. :grouphug:

heidiho
July 8th, 2005, 05:09 PM
That would be Sheriff Joe Arpiao he is here in Phoenix,AZ WHERE I LIVE I LOVE HIM :usa:

Bearsmom
July 9th, 2005, 09:05 AM
"The Homolka/Bernardo duo took one of my family members."

Oh,Bearsmom,.... I dont know how, but somehow I missed this.

I am so sorry for your family's loss. :grouphug:
I cant begin to imagine the devastation and pain of this tragedy.

This would be an issue then not just close to your heart, but part of your soul, I'm sure. :grouphug:


This issue has rotted away at most of what I had left in believing in the good in certain folks, but it's certainly taught my family how lenient our justice system is.

Thanks, heidiho, didn't he just write a book on it? I read somewhere about the hot pink handcuffs and laughed my head off at that one too. Send him up to Canada, maybe he can straighten the justice system up here.

Luba
July 9th, 2005, 10:02 AM
Bearsmom I pray for healing within your family, and peace within your hearts.

:grouphug:

Iggette
July 13th, 2005, 06:23 AM
My prayers and thoughts are with you Bearsmom so sorry your family was part of these tragic events.

When this was first in the news years ago my daughter was the same age as the girls that went missing. I made her and my son follow the news as the story revealed the very sad happenings. I wanted my daughter to see that not all cute guys are harmless, not all good looking girls were cool to hang around, and all people should earn your trust as you get to know them. My son kept a closer watch on his sister when they were out together. She was a bit wild and when she stayed out all night once I watched his face in the truck when he was with me scouring the streets of Scarborough at 1 am looking for her turn from hopeful to distraught while checking their regular hangouts and still no sign of her as he watched mine.

Those were very trying days for all of us, and my heart went out to all families involved in this horrific case.

I generally don't advocate the death penalty. To many innocent people being convicted......

HOWEVER

I believe these two should have got it and right away, there was zero question of doubt that these two beasts (not human) did the crime with no remorse what so ever.

And if it was my child on death row for this crime?

I would still believe. I would be downright ashamed if my son or daughter caused another family so much grief it is beyond words, and I would never look back. I would never support them financially or emotionally after the crimes they committed. I would simply wash my hands of them and put them at the mercy of the court

After all we euthanize dogs for a 2 minute attack on a person that doesn't even kill them. But oh no don't give the death penalty to these 2 cause they have rights :confused: I'm sick of inmates that are so pampered with privlages that many in our social assistance system can't even get, all for free and all in the name of rehabilitation.......good grief give me a break :rolleyes: