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Rescuing an English Bulldog??

Angeleyes1437
June 30th, 2005, 11:30 PM
Okay... As most of you probably know I have a 10 month old American Pit Bull Terrier... cute as a button. My boyfriend wants to get a second dog before he gets too old where it may disturb his way of life. Of course I am thrilled because there is no such thing as too many dogs to me :)

However, he ALWAYS wanted an English Bulldog. I know plenty about breeds, and I know a Bulldog would easily fit our lifestyle- in all honesty we would probably out run her... so there are no issues there. First of all I am well aware of their many possible health issues. This turns me off to certain breeds because I get so attached and any sickness will leave me devastated.

Aside from this I will not purchase a puppy... I will only adopt (not out of cheapness... for well being of all dogs- I know I don't need to explain to you all). I thought of contacting the English Bulldog rescues but they usually get older bulldogs with health issues. Considering the breed I already have it would need to be a female (1 male terrier rule) and young to grow up with Maximus, this way we can get proper training from the beggining (I feel like this is too much to ask from a rescue). He is great with all dogs, but I do not want to disrupt his way of life with a rescue adult dog. I want to be extra careful because I am not an impulse person when it comes to a life, nor am I one to EVER rehome a dog.

I know adult adoption is wonderful and I am totally for it, if I didn't already have Maximus- and his well-being/happiness has to be my first priority. I feel a young female dog is the best bet. I volunteer at animal care and control in NYC however, English Bulldogs rarely come in. When they do it's NEVER puppies. Especially considering all that breeders must go through to deliver these funny little guys.

Does anyone have any suggestions or do you think my chances of finding the right Bulldog pup is slim?

In my opinion I see pups every week at the shelter I would love to bring home! I will take home any dog in need of a good home- but a decision like this needs to be agreed on by boyfriend AND me. If he ALWAYS wanted an English Bulldog I don't want to say NO WAY to him, after all... Maximus was all my decision, but now I am moving in with him and these types of decisions are not just mine anymore.

I would love to hear your input and/or criticisms. Thanks people! :-* (there is no kissing smiley!)

Lucky Rescue
June 30th, 2005, 11:50 PM
An EB puppy would be very rare in a shelter or rescue. These dogs seem to be dumped at adulthood when health problems from bad breeding show up.

You may have to go to a breeder if you really want a puppy, and a reputable breeder will be at least 2500 - 3000$ for a puppy.

it would need to be a female (1 male terrier rule) and young to grow up with Maximus, this way we can get proper training from the beggining (I feel like this is too much to ask from a rescue). He is great with all dogs, but I do not want to disrupt his way of life with a rescue adult dog. I want to be extra careful because I am not an impulse person when it comes to a life, nor am I one to EVER rehome a dog.

Maximus is a puppy, so it's not unusual that he is good with all dogs at the moment. This may change at maturity, or in 2 or 3 years.

If you bring another dog in, you must be prepared and able to separate them 24/7, since there is no guarantee Maximus will continue to like other dogs. If this is not something you feel you could do (and I know I don't want to) then don't get another dog.

Of course, EBs can be dog aggressive too, so getting a puppy will not mean it will also mature to be friendly with other dogs.

Best scenario - the two dogs will be great buddies, but even then never leave them alone together.

Worst scenario - the total separation at maturity.

We always hope for the best, but must prepare for the worst!

AS for a rescue dog, many rescues have fosters for dogs, and they are trained, crate trained etc by them. They can also be evaluated in a home situation to see if they are good with other dogs, kids etc.

A young female will be your best bet, but just remember "Never trust a pit bull not to fight."

Angeleyes1437
July 1st, 2005, 12:01 AM
Oh trust me, I know, lol. I would crate the female or leave her in the bedroom (once she's trained) whenever we are not around. I would never leave any two dogs alone, regardless of breed- to be extra safe. I socialize Maximus extensively... and I do understand that he may not always be great with other dogs- however, I hope my efforts pay off. :)

I would MUCH rather have them get along- of course, but if I dedicated myself to a dog than I would do whatever I had to in order to keep them both happy and safe. I was thinking a hound would be much better with an APBT- I wanted to avoid another Bully or Terrier breed (althought I love them)all together, just to be safe. I mean, Maximus shows no signs of me needing to- but again, he is still young.

Angeleyes1437
July 1st, 2005, 12:09 AM
Another little fact. I had Maximus neutered early- just before 6 months, to avoid a lot of the male dominance issues and to date he gets pushed around by his 20 pound JRT cousin. I like him being around him, because I praise him for being non-confrontational when his toy get stolen.

However, a cute little Rottie got very dominant and tried to start a fight with his submissive Pharoh Hound cousin, Chelsea (shes a rescue dog and very timid) at the dog park (the owner had no control of him) and he ran over before I could do anything and body slammed the Rottweiler (twice his weight). Didn't bite him, just gave him a serious warning, grabbed him with his mouth at the neck, and held him down with his body and barked at him like "Cut it out, she's my pack member". So I know he isn't in complete puppy mode... yet there's plenty more maturing for him to do.

Another thing off topic though... if two other dogs fight in the park, he runs over to break it up. I hate it, because I don't want one to turn around and fight with him, so I call him away or grab him. He never touches them, but he barks at them... you can tell he doesn't like it at all. Is this a good or bad quality? Obviously it's bad because he can get hurt, but does it mean anything otherwise? I never had a dog that did that.

Copper'sMom
July 1st, 2005, 12:35 AM
Let me tell you from experience, you never know what you are going to get or how things will be until you've got it!!

I have a 4 year old male Pit Bull neutered at 6 months. I now have a female, she just turned 6 months and is going to be spayed next week.

Copper is the sweetest, most well behaved dog I have ever had. He's my baby and always will be. I love him more than life itself.
Zoe WAS quite a handful. I got her when she was about 15 weeks and she was owned by someone before me. She had no training at all. She is now housetrained and has learned some manners. She is as sweet as pie but has a bit of a nasty streak in her at times. I didn't think I would have to worry about aggressiveness until she was more mature. I was wrong! It has started already(typical dog behaviour, but still risky considering the breed). I don't know what the future holds for us, but I won't give up on her. If permanent separation is a must, then so be it. But just as a warning to you, accidents happen right before your eyes!

Good Luck!! And yes more dogs are better than just one! ;)

Angeleyes1437
July 1st, 2005, 12:40 AM
lol... I know what you mean. In all honesty I find the female "Pit Bulls" to be more tenacious (not in a bad way, but the males are always so laid back!)than the males. Max's sister (yes, we know his actual sister)came over when they were about 6 months and she wouldn't stop attacking him. He was twice her size, looks very Bully and she has that tight V-shaped face. She was so aggressive to him that we had to put her in his gate while her owner's stayed.

All he did was run away from her!!! He wanted to play! lol. I guess you could imagine that we never invited them over again!

Copper'sMom
July 1st, 2005, 01:22 AM
LOL I kind of wonder whether or not Zoe is in a constant state of PMS!!! She walks right up to our husky who is 10 times the size of her with her head held high, tail in the air just like she is Miss Priss! Total confidence! ANd here, when we were going to get her(we didn't know if she was male or female) Iwas hoping for a female. Maybe I should have hoped she was a male instead!

Angeleyes1437
July 1st, 2005, 01:26 AM
lol, thats funny... they are invinsible little guys... or girls for that fact. Better off with a girl anyway, well with guys already in the house :)

I miss having a girl dog sometimes... I had a poodle so I would dress her up, brush her all the time, put little bows in her hair. She would love it!!! The girls get moody sometimes though- just don't want to be bothered... I think women are the same way- I know I am!! :crazy:

Lucky Rescue
July 1st, 2005, 10:34 AM
It's great that you neutered Maximus early and that you socialized him a lot!

However, taking him to dog parks is a big NO-NO, and I really hope you stop doing that.

However, no training, socializing or loving is going to deny his aggression, which is already manifesting:
and he ran over before I could do anything and body slammed the Rottweiler (twice his weight). Didn't bite him, just gave him a serious warning, grabbed him with his mouth at the neck

The next time (and also before you can do anything) Maximus could do very serious injury to another dog, while everyone stands and watches the "vicious" pit bull.

Getting into just ONE fight could trigger serious aggression problems, so you want to avoid that at all costs. This is the only way to protect not only your dog, but other people's dogs.

As you've seen,many people at dog parks "have no control" over their dogs.

if two other dogs fight in the park, he runs over to break it up. I hate it, because I don't want one to turn around and fight with him, so I call him away or grab him. He never touches them, but he barks at them... you can tell he doesn't like it at all. Is this a good or bad quality? Obviously it's bad because he can get hurt, but does it mean anything otherwise?

This is neither "good" nor "bad". Maximus is a pit bull, and was bred to fight other dogs. You are taking a very serious chance that one day he very well may decide to join in these fights at this dog park, and then it will be too late as the outcome may be devastating to you, your dog, and other dogs. Trust me, when this happens (and it WILL) there will be no "calling him off".

Please stop the dog park!

Angeleyes1437
July 1st, 2005, 12:27 PM
So you think that he should no longer be socialized with a lot of dogs? My sisters Jack Russell has done the same thing if a dog gets rough with Maximus or Chelsea.

I bring him to classes for agility but they can only socialize so much, and he has to get exercise. I bring him when it's least crowded, however- you think the dog park all together is bad? Because of his breed? I know of Boxers or other breeds that have attacked other dogs at parks, if he is always good with other dogs and listens to me well- why should he be couped up in a backyard? Only to go to agility once a week or so?

When I bring him to the dog park it's usually dogs he knows, because we've been going since he was 11 weeks (after his last shots). I am very careful with him, and keep him close by- we've never had a problem with him... all the animal behaviorists I speak to think the dog park I go to is the best place for him (as it is USUALLY great owners and dogs) to socialize.

I know you always have great advice, but I disagree with the dog parks. I know I need to be careful that another dog with aggression doesn't ruin his disposition with other dogs- however, if I don't bring him at all it will be the same thing.

toby's tracy
July 1st, 2005, 12:38 PM
I agree with Lucky on this. If, God forbid, anything should happen it could cost you your dog. Even if Maximus is only breaking up a fight and is only holding another dog down, a nervous dog owner may cry "pit bull!" and really overreact.

Owning a pit bull comes with a lot of responsibility, more so than most dogs, because of the horrible (I am not saying deserved!) reputation that they have. I think that one of the responsibilities is keeping it away from dog parks or any other situation where an accident may happen - or where ignorant people may cause trouble (I am referring to those who think anything that even looks like a pit bull is trouble).

I know what Lucky thinks, what do others think? Do you agree with the 'better safe than sorry' line here?

Lucky Rescue
July 1st, 2005, 12:39 PM
I know of Boxers or other breeds that have attacked other dogs at parks, if he is always good with other dogs and listens to me well- why should he be couped up in a backyard?

Yes, there are aggressive dogs in every breed. The big difference is that Boxers, Labs and JRTs are not being banned, seized and killed for their aggression. Your dog could very well be.

He doesn't have to be cooped up anywhere. I leash walk my dog and take her to lots of places, but would never let her loose with a bunch of unleashed dogs whose owners have no control over them.

You said there have been fights in this park,and your dog already had an incident.

I don't want to lose my dog because other pit bull owners won't stop taking their dogs to off leash parks and putting them in harm's way.

I would never leave any two dogs alone, regardless of breed- to be extra safe.
I'm wondering why you wouldn't leave two dogs who live together and get along alone in your home, yet will turn your pit bull loose with strange dogs when you know you can't stop a fight from happening?

If you don't believe me, please read the following from PBRC. Perhaps they can explain it better:
Dog parks and pit bulls (http://www.pbrc.net/dogpark.html)

Angeleyes1437
July 1st, 2005, 12:43 PM
OMG... that was the only time that something like that happened... he didn't bite- he used his body to hold down and protected his cousin. The dog was out of control and I never saw him there before. Otherwise he is perfect, actualy the best behaved dog there. He's gotten barked, growled and snipped at only to back off and walk away.

You think because of his breed I should punish him when he is better than most? I don't want to sound arrogant- because I appreciate your input, however keeping him inside is ridiculous. If he became dog aggressive I would make a decision to only bring him out for walks and exercise him in the backyard, however- he LOVES the dog park and other dogs, and never has a problem, he is very good there and he looks forward to it 3-4 times a week... I won't do that to him unless he's acted a way I feel could be dangerous.

Angeleyes1437
July 1st, 2005, 12:52 PM
Yes, there are aggressive dogs in every breed. The big difference is that Boxers, Labs and JRTs are not being banned, seized and killed for their aggression. Your dog could very well be.

Which is why Maximus is well socialized and when people ask me about the breed, usually at the dog park I can educate them. Most people know him by name there already, they see him and he runs in happily and excited!

He doesn't have to be cooped up anywhere. I leash walk my dog and take her to lots of places, but would never let her loose with a bunch of unleashed dogs whose owners have no control over them.

Which is why I take him when it's dead, why I cut days at work to take him early. The people there all know each other, including me- if I see a dog acting aggressively, I leave- thats it!

You said there have been fights in this park,and your dog already had an incident.

You call that an incident? You are taking it totally out of proportion than what happened, truthfully making me regret telling you- it wasn't vicious at all, he acted better than what I would expect another breed to do.

I don't want to lose my dog because other pit bull owners won't stop taking their dogs to off leash parks and putting them in harm's way.

Neither do I, and I am acting on BSL as we speak- so don't try to place blame on me please- you are being rude to me and I don't appreciate it. I have been nothing but nice and people walk there dogs off leash on the streets- these things can happen anywhere. It's a very nice neighborhood and everyone rarely has a problem... where do you suggest I run him? In a people park? So I can be the unlawful dog owner? I am a responsible owner, but you obviously took the thread and made it into something it is not.

I'm wondering why you wouldn't leave two dogs who live together and get along alone in your home, yet will turn your pit bull loose with strange dogs when you know you can't stop a fight from happening?


Because dogs are dogs, and I would want to prevent any issues they could have while I was away...specifically over resources. If you don't understand that than you are just looking to pick on me.

If you don't believe me, please read the following from PBRC. Perhaps they can explain it better:
Dog parks and pit bulls (http://www.pbrc.net/dogpark.html)

Thanks for the link... I'll read it.

Spurby
July 1st, 2005, 01:01 PM
If you are such a fan of dog parks, then you made the wrong choice with this breed. Please do the breed and us responsible owners a favor and stop bringing your dog there! This is SERIOUS! This breed is being banned left right and centre, every "incident" they are in adds fuel to the fire, why RISK it? There are MANY ways to excersize your dog without the need for a dog park. They are a new creation, dogs exsisited before them, and will continue to exsist without them.

If the PBRC article didn't convince you, maybe this one will http://www.badrap.org/rescue/dogpark.cfm
NO responsible owner of this breed takes their bully to a dog park, none!

Angeleyes1437
July 1st, 2005, 01:02 PM
Oh and one more thing.. Rereading my posts it is possible that my explaination of what Maximus did could be taken the wrong way. Picture this... sometimes my boyfriend will walk over and start "punching me" jokingly and I scream "OW OW OW!! HELP!!" and Maximus will run over and grab his hands while barking at him to stop. How Max told my boyfriend to stop is exactly what he did to the Rottweiler... he didnt show his teeth, his hair didn't stand up, he wasn't being vicious, he was simply saying stop! How does a mother correct her pups when they bite her? Thats not being vicious.

I really feel like this was taken out of context and I know why some people end up not coming back to the board, and that's a shame because I really liked everyone on here.

LL1
July 1st, 2005, 01:06 PM
Why would you stop coming here?

toby's tracy
July 1st, 2005, 01:08 PM
Angeleyes - You sound like you love your dog very much! In doing so, I am sure you want only what is best for him.


If he became dog aggressive I would make a decision to only bring him out for walks and exercise him in the backyard


My worry would be that, if he showed more aggressiveness than the little bit he has already (tackling and pinning down is aggressive behaviour - and it didn't sound like it was done in play), because of the unfair reputation that pit bulls have, it may be too late and you may be fighting a much larger battle than whether or not you should bring him to the dog park...

You are right - it is unfair that Maximus can't go to the dog park like other dogs.

My present dog is not a pit bull and I don't bring him to the dog park because I have seen people in dog parks who have no control over their dogs.

It is my choice to keep away from the dog parks, and instead, we try to arrange "play dates" with other dogs we know so that Toby can socialize and have fun in a controlled environment. That could be one way to ensure that Maximus remains social with other dogs.

This is just some friendly advice, given out of concern for you and your dog.
:love:

Angeleyes1437
July 1st, 2005, 01:10 PM
I've read these sites before, however many have contradicting literature. At the dog park Maximus NEVER rough plays with other dogs, he doesn't get involved in rough play at all! He doesn't chase other dogs, he basically plays ball and if other dogs get the ball first he just runs back to me.

I can take your advice but how come EVERY animal behavorist I've spoken to tells me what I am doing with him is the best thing?

Angeleyes1437
July 1st, 2005, 01:14 PM
Angeleyes - You sound like you love your dog very much! In doing so, I am sure you want only what is best for him.



My worry would be that, if he showed more aggressiveness than the little bit he has already (tackling and pinning down is aggressive behaviour - and it didn't sound like it was done in play), because of the unfair reputation that pit bulls have, it may be too late and you may be fighting a much larger battle than whether or not you should bring him to the dog park...

You are right - it is unfair that Maximus can't go to the dog park like other dogs.

My present dog is not a pit bull and I don't bring him to the dog park because I have seen people in dog parks who have no control over their dogs.

It is my choice to keep away from the dog parks, and instead, we try to arrange "play dates" with other dogs we know so that Toby can socialize and have fun in a controlled environment. That could be one way to ensure that Maximus remains social with other dogs.

This is just some friendly advice, given out of concern for you and your dog.
:love:

Thank you for a constructive post... I appreciate it. When I bring Maximus to the dog park (Which is extremely large) there are usually only three of four dogs there... so it's never an issue, I avoid the peak times there. Bring Maximus into another dogs home can make the other dog aggressive with their belongings. He goes to my sisters, and they come here- but they know each other well. Just because a dog is good with the dogs they know doesn't mean they are not dog aggressive, and THAT is what I try to prevent. Where do you set up play dates with your dogs? In your home?

toby's tracy
July 1st, 2005, 01:14 PM
Another thing off topic though... if two other dogs fight in the park, he runs over to break it up. I hate it, because I don't want one to turn around and fight with him, so I call him away or grab him. He never touches them, but he barks at them... you can tell he doesn't like it at all. Is this a good or bad quality? Obviously it's bad because he can get hurt, but does it mean anything otherwise? I never had a dog that did that.

I have been rereading to see if I missed anything and I noticed that you asked for feedback about this...

Nothing that I have read here is malicious - it is all based on the facts you have presented about your dog. AND IT IS ALL GIVEN IN GOOD SPIRIT!

Please don't leave.

Angeleyes1437
July 1st, 2005, 01:17 PM
By fight I meant strong rough play where one dog backs down. I think one of my problems here is I didn't think carefully about my wording... other dogs sometimes rough play, Maximus doesn't- but if he sees one dog gets scared and another one acting too rough, it's as if he's trying to tell the other one to ease up.

However, this is rare- because usually there aren't many dogs there.

toby's tracy
July 1st, 2005, 01:18 PM
Where do you set up play dates with your dogs? In your home?

In my backyard, but usually in the backyards of people we know who have fences and dogs. That way they can run around, tiring each other out. So far we have had one experience where an older dog was not too impressed with little Toby who wanted to jump and play. So we put the older dog inside (where he was very happy to be left alone to nap!) and Toby and one other dog were still able to play.

It's good for me and the dog - we both get to socialize with our friends!

Lucky Rescue
July 1st, 2005, 01:18 PM
however keeping him inside is ridiculous. If he became dog aggressive I would make a decision to only bring him out for walks and exercise him in the backyard,

Where did I say he should be kept inside or even in a yard? Please quote. :confused:

I have always managed to exercise and care for dogs without dog parks, just as people always did before the advent of these parks.

I won't do that to him unless he's acted a way I feel could be dangerous

You mean when he has a hold on another dog and won't let go? When the other dog's owner is standing there screaming and kicking your dog, and the others are yelling for bans? I wish I could tell you how many times I've heard of this very thing happening, from people who thought "I know my dog, and MY dog wouldn't do that" and did. He has already acted in a way that is a warning - body slamming a Rottie twice his weight, and he's only a 10 month old puppy!

You got off easy that time, but maybe next time you (and Maximus) won't. It's true that pit bull bitches can be "hotter" than the males, but males can do way more damage.

You said you couldn't get there in time to stop him body slamming the Rottie. What if next time instead of slamming, he grips, or rips this dog's face off? Do you have a break stick and do you know how to use it? If not, you should.

Did you even read the PBRC article? Do you think those people are all wrong too? Why would you risk your dog's life (and the lives of dogs of responsible owners like me) for trips to some dog park? Maximus depends on you to take care of him and keep him safe. He has no one else.

Why do you think I'm writing all this? Seriously - do you think I hate you and your dog and want him "punished"? Hate my own dog? I love this breed, and fear they ARE going to become totally banned everywhere because of owners who cannot or will not control them.

You ask why Maximus barks when other dogs are fighting at the park. If you knew about this breed, you would know he does this because the fighting excites him, and it's only a matter of time until he joins in.

I didn't know anything about this breed either when I got mine, but I was sure willing to learn from others who had many years experience with them. I figured maybe they knew more than I did.....can't you see I'm trying to help?

Keep taking your pit bull to the dog park, but please don't come here hysterical because there has been some horrendous incident and Maximus has been taken from you. Go look on some dogfighting sites if you want to see what your dog is capable of.

I dont' know why you are being defensive and angry.

Good luck.

Angeleyes1437
July 1st, 2005, 01:32 PM
I am not being defensive nor angry... I have heard all you are saying. I've known plenty about this breed before I ever had one. I know what he is capable of- in all honesty I don't think you are reading my posts fully and are using portions of my posts. I am getting extremely different input from different places. Before dog parks existed there were regular parks - before that there was just land... try finding that in NYC.

There is NOTHING you are telling me that is news to me, I've known it all. I've also spokent to animal behaviorists and trainers to make sure I was doing the right thing when many websites said not to bring them out there. APBT's should not have a problem just because of their fighting history. Many people successfully bring their Pit Bull breeds around other dogs, and they are great. However, some just can't be around other dogs- so it depends on the dog.

Again, I am not being defensive or angry- I am just offended not only by the way you are speaking but some of the things you are saying and also the manner of your posts. I will be sure to take your advice, however, you are picturing a dog park different from the one we go to and when... and truthfully you don't have enough information to fully make total judgement, yet you are. I know your response will be "All I need to know is that he's a pit bull and goes to a dog park", and I expect that... that is fine.

Don't expect me to add to the fuel of BSL... no matter how irresponsible you try to make me sound- I can guarantee you I will not.

LL1
July 1st, 2005, 01:47 PM
I don't know a single ABPT rescue or experienced owner or trainer that would be ok with a dog park.You are adding to the fuel of BSL by taking your dog off leash at a dog park.One fight will change everyone's mind on the breed.Then they will all say LOOK HE TURNED,they do ust TURN out of nowhere and are vicious.

Visit friends with dogs he likes,go too enclosed places like baseball fields or tennis courts with no other dogs in it.Nobody is saying punish your dog,or keep it at home,they are trying to help you keep your dog safe.

Any dog owner taking a ball to a dog park with other dogs around is looking for problems.
I've read these sites before, however many have contradicting literature. At the dog park Maximus NEVER rough plays with other dogs, he doesn't get involved in rough play at all! He doesn't chase other dogs, he basically plays ball and if other dogs get the ball first he just runs back to me.

I can take your advice but how come EVERY animal behavorist I've spoken to tells me what I am doing with him is the best thing?

Angeleyes1437
July 1st, 2005, 01:49 PM
One thing I thought would fit this thread... I have a friend, who has an extremely aggressive mature female, but she had very poor inconsistent upbringing. She would jump on the tv if an animal appeared- slam into the windows as dogs, cats, and squirels passed. I found this extremely irresponsible but they brought home a puppy!! To my surprise, after a few days they were great! They live together wonderfully ... I still can't believe it- but they are both adults and get along great.

Angeleyes1437
July 1st, 2005, 01:52 PM
I don't know a single ABPT rescue or experienced owner or trainer that would be ok with a dog park.You are adding to the fuel of BSL by taking your dog off leash at a dog park.One fight will change everyone's mind on the breed.Then they will all say LOOK HE TURNED,they do ust TURN out of nowhere and are vicious.

Visit friends with dogs he likes,go too enclosed places like baseball fields or tennis courts with no other dogs in it.Nobody is saying punish your dog,or keep it at home,they are trying to help you keep your dog safe.

Any dog owner taking a ball to a dog park with other dogs around is looking for problems.

You are not allowed to use the tennis ball and baseball fields for that over here. Thats weird that you don't know a single one (I'm not being sarcastic! I'm serious), when they are on TV- and I've spoken to 4 of them about this issue and they all agreed, when he was young and I just started bringing him... I wanted to be safe, and make sure I was doing the best thing.

I don't like all of the different views on this breed... everyone has different opinions on this.

Spurby
July 1st, 2005, 01:58 PM
I would love to talk to these behavoirist you mentioned, can you please forward me the names? I would like to educate them to this breed and their traits which you can NOT socialize out of them. Their were bred for hundreds of years to bait Bulls and fight other dogs, they are NOT the breed for dog parks period. Sure many can be wonderful with dogs at certain times, all it takes is for ONE fight to change peoples minds and cause heartache. Remember and respect what this breed is all about.

I don't like all of the different views on this breed... everyone has different opinions on this.

This isn't a matter of opinion, this is a fact with this breed. They don't do well in dog parks, no matter how many dogs are there! Why are you in such a denial with this? Dog-bred and used to fight other dogs=not a breed for dog parks, quite simple really.

LL1
July 1st, 2005, 02:05 PM
Then I would continue with on leash walks,playing in your own yard,and play dates at friends homes with securely fenced back yards.All kinds of options.Experienced owners and trainers and rescues will not recomend dog parks,often for any breed,and definietly for Pits.They won't start the fight,but they will end it.Then your dog and the breed suffers.They are great dogs,nobody is disagreeing.You are doing more harm than help by letting your dog off leash in the dog park.And ball playing in a dog park is a very bad idea.
You are not allowed to use the tennis ball and baseball fields for that over here. Thats weird that you don't know a single one (I'm not being sarcastic! I'm serious), when they are on TV- and I've spoken to 4 of them about this issue and they all agreed, when he was young and I just started bringing him... I wanted to be safe, and make sure I was doing the best thing.

Angeleyes1437
July 1st, 2005, 02:06 PM
If you have Animal Planet- at 10-10:30 you will see Ceaser Millan, he has like 40 dogs.. most of them Pit Bull Breeds. As for the behaviorists, Dr. Borchelt is his name, he is the most recent one I've spoken to. He was going to help me get Max over lack of confendece. However, he hasn't been showing signs of fear (out of the house) lately and I've been taking him out and using some tactics that seemed to work (he was taken from his litter WAY too early because people are idiots). He actually wanted to meet at the dog park, so he could see how Maximus interacted with other dogs!! I am at the point where I want to blow my brains out! I got him expecting we wouldn't be able to bring him to dog parks after a certain age... then I hear NO NO NO... so I bring him, he's great... then I hear NO NO NO. I'm just really confused now and getting fustrated... it's starting to seem like it is all opinion to me.

LL1
July 1st, 2005, 02:09 PM
I agree with more socializing,with people,and dogs you know in a safe controlled environment.Not a dog park.You cannot control things there.
He was going to help me get Max over lack of confendece. However, he hasn't been showing signs of fear (out of the house) lately and I've been taking him out and using some tactics that seemed to work (he was taken from his litter WAY too early because people are idiots).

toby's tracy
July 1st, 2005, 02:14 PM
I'm just really confused now and getting fustrated... it's starting to seem like it is all opinion to me.

In that case, if it were me I would go with the opinion that will absolutely ensure the safety of my dog.

The way I see it, keeping him out of dog parks is the one.

A thought - if you do get another dog and they are together in the dog park, and another dog play fights with the new dog...how might her older brother feel/react?

I know it is a 'what if' but it just came to me and seemed a relevant 'what if' to think of!

Do you have access to a private fenced in yard? Since you feel so passionately about this, your passion may be the fuel you need to start a play date service of some sort...hmmm, could be fun! If I lived in New York I'd seriously think of doing that with you. As it is, where I live we have lots of fenced in backyards to use!

I wish you strength in dealing with this!

Spurby
July 1st, 2005, 02:15 PM
If you talk to the breed "experts" and i am certainly not saying i am, but i listen to them, they will tell you the same thing we are. Just because someone is a trainer or behaviourist doesn't mean they know or understand this breed. I live in Ontario, where we are facing a breed ban. Some of the incidents that added fuel to the fire happened IN dog parks. This is a sad fact for this breed, every incident, no matter how small, put another nail in the coffin for BSL. BSL is spreading like wildfire, do the right thing, keep your dog out of dog parks, and take her for walks around the city and show her off to people instead..get her CGC, continue to train and socialize her with people and other dogs, but with people you know, and not in dog parks, perhaps someone backyard?

Angeleyes1437
July 1st, 2005, 02:16 PM
I understand what you mean with dog parks in general... and my sister and I sometimes take them to a park across the street during the day- when it is empty. Although I haven't had many bad experiences at dog parks I have heard of plenty. However, living in the city it's hard to find places to take them where they can really let loose and get the exercise they need! Plus I don't like keeping him away from dogs because of his breed- I want him to be used to all kinds of environments.

However, you are right... I cannot control the situation in a dog park- or any public place for that matter. Any idiot can come in with a vicious dog and Maximus can get involved. You are right. It's just that walks only do so much, and I am running out of good ideas as for socialization and exercise. I don't want him to be limited to my sisters and bf's sisters dogs.

I just wish everyone on this post was constructive with their posts like you instead of being bullyish. However, most of the posts here have been helpful.

toby's tracy
July 1st, 2005, 02:21 PM
Is there a pitbull society of some sort in New York?

It might be worthwhile checking it out...I am sure you are not the only pit bull owner in NY with these concerns!

It could be a good place to network and find places for play dates...and if there aren't any yet - it could be a good site to set one up!

Again - good luck with this.

Angeleyes1437
July 1st, 2005, 02:23 PM
If you talk to the breed "experts" and i am certainly not saying i am, but i listen to them, they will tell you the same thing we are. Just because someone is a trainer or behaviourist doesn't mean they know or understand this breed. I live in Ontario, where we are facing a breed ban. Some of the incidents that added fuel to the fire happened IN dog parks. This is a sad fact for this breed, every incident, no matter how small, put another nail in the coffin for BSL. BSL is spreading like wildfire, do the right thing, keep your dog out of dog parks, and take her for walks around the city and show her off to people instead..get her CGC, continue to train and socialize her with people and other dogs, but with people you know, and not in dog parks, perhaps someone backyard?

You are right, and I'm starting to not want to deal with dog parks at all, not matter what the breed, because in a way it is asking for problems. Especially when people walk in to show off their dominant tough dog. I usually leave, but what if I cannot in time? So I understand. I have an enclosed back yard and Maximus goes out there a lot, but usually just to do his business. It is only about 20x25 feet. He is around other dogs often, and I walk him- but do you think the regular park when it is off-peak is okay? I still feel like that can be dangerous, ... I cannot control a situation unless it is in my own backyard... my property or someone elses. In public places it is hard. Plus, some guy on my block walks his APBT off leash... he is VERY sweet- but still... aside from crossing on his own away from the owner and almost getting hit by a car it isn't very smart for other reasons! Sometimes dogs can be aggressive when they are onleash... especially when another dog is off leash and they aren't. Max has always been fine with him, but you never know.

Lucky Rescue
July 1st, 2005, 02:24 PM
Not a dog park.You cannot control things there

Right. Taking a dog who lacks confidence to a dog park is like taking someone who fears the water and throwing him out of a boat. Putting a dog in the middle of something he fears is called "flooding" and is not recommended. Gradual desensitization is a better way.

Every trainer or behaviorist may not know everything about every specific breed. Not to mention that as with any professional, there are good behaviorists and bad and everything in between.

I chose to listen to people who have been rescuing, owning, raising and even breeding these dogs for many years, rather than others who have not. All these people manage to have healthy, happy pit bulls without the benefit of a dog park, at least not for puppies over 5 or 6 months of age.There is no substitute for hands-on experience in my mind.

We want to help. Can you tell us when you got Maximus, how old he was, and when the lack of confidence started, and how it manifests? Is he over it now? It sounds like he is.

Yes I watch Cesar Milan all the time. You will note at the beginning of the show that viewers are warned about not trying any of his methods yourself.;)

Since I don't have his experience, knowledge or confidence, I certainly would not!

Please don't get frustrated. It's quite simple. Taking your maturing pit bull to a dog park is risking his life and other dogs' lives. Period.

Angeleyes1437
July 1st, 2005, 02:25 PM
Is there a pitbull society of some sort in New York?

It might be worthwhile checking it out...I am sure you are not the only pit bull owner in NY with these concerns!

It could be a good place to network and find places for play dates...and if there aren't any yet - it could be a good site to set one up!

Again - good luck with this.


There are groups but they often meet in dog parks. I cannot see letting a bunch of pit bulls loose in a dog park together being a good thing... I just can't. He has his doggy cousins to play with... my issue is just that I don't want him to get used to them ONLY and then start to become dog aggressive with OTHER dogs... you know? Is everyone getting my points?

Spurby
July 1st, 2005, 02:27 PM
Plus I don't like keeping him away from dogs because of his breed- I want him to be used to all kinds of environments.

This breed doesn't "need" to be around other dogs. This breed is people oriented, they want to be with thier owners most!!

I live in a large city. I never take my dog off-leash anwhere except for fenced in baseball areas..i go early and make sure my dog and i don't leave a mess!! I go for long walks, and do training with her, she is happy and content without ever stepping foot in a dog park, and she only has a few doggy friends, she prefers me to them too as she has matured.

He is around other dogs often, and I walk him- but do you think the regular park when it is off-peak is okay?

Yes, on-lead of course. I go to parks to that aren't off-leash, and use a long lead so my dog can run! It works very well.

toby's tracy
July 1st, 2005, 02:28 PM
T... my issue is just that I don't want him to get used to them ONLY and then start to become dog aggressive with OTHER dogs... you know? Is everyone getting my points?

Does anyone know if dogs discriminate between species? I am not trying to be funny or sarcastic, I am just wondering if the breed makes a difference in socialization...

Angeleyes1437
July 1st, 2005, 02:43 PM
Right. Taking a dog who lacks confidence to a dog park is like taking someone who fears the water and throwing him out of a boat. Putting a dog in the middle of something he fears is called "flooding" and is not recommended. Gradual desensitization is a better way.

Every trainer or behaviorist may not know everything about every specific breed. Not to mention that as with any professional, there are good behaviorists and bad and everything in between.

I chose to listen to people who have been rescuing, owning, raising and even breeding these dogs for many years, rather than others who have not. All these people manage to have healthy, happy pit bulls without the benefit of a dog park, at least not for puppies over 5 or 6 months of age.There is no substitute for hands-on experience in my mind.

We want to help. Can you tell us when you got Maximus, how old he was, and when the lack of confidence started, and how it manifests? Is he over it now? It sounds like he is.

Yes I watch Cesar Milan all the time. You will note at the beginning of the show that viewers are warned about not trying any of his methods yourself.;)

Since I don't have his experience, knowledge or confidence, I certainly would not!

Please don't get frustrated. It's quite simple. Taking your maturing pit bull to a dog park is risking his life and other dogs' lives. Period.


Thank you Lucky... I knew something was getting across wrong with you because I am not irrational... and definitely not stupid- I just don't ALWAYS know the best choice, like many of us... so I come here for help. You have always been helpful with me.

As for Maximus having insecurity it's not with other dogs, he is great with them! Off leash he is fine, perfect actually. On leash at about 6 months he started barking at everything. So I started correcting him by dinking the leash and making him look at me (watch me command) I would make him sit until he calmed down. It was rarely other dogs but actually people on bikes, carriages (which was a big problem for me as you could imagine), or scary looking MEN!! LOL. Specifically tall or dark colored men. This has pretty much completely gone away... he is fine now. However, he does still have fear of the vet (which started at about 6 months). He wags hit tail and goes over to him... you can tell he wants to say hi but actually gets scared once he puts his hand out to pet him. He flinches, backs up and barks. However, if he never goes to pet him, Maximus will lick him and sniff him like crazy! It's like he is saying "On my terms, not yours!". The vet told me if he didn't know me so well he would think I hit him, by his reaction. However, I've never hit Maximus, I use purely positive reinforcement.

Now he is fine on the leash... will rarely bark at something or even answer another dogs barks- but it is corrected right away and thats it. So it's not really a problem anymore, just when he does I make sure I'm consistent.

I got him at FOUR weeks old!! Some idiots who was a friend of a friend had two UKC registered APBT's and bred them. I was devastated as I has just lost my dog of 17 years (in her sleep, I can thank God of that), so I went to the house with her to see them- but purely to lecture him. They wanted the puppies out of there as they "smelled bad" and were "too much work". They were also letting people in with sneakers (hi, PARVO!), and it was just a horrible situation. So to make a long story short, I paid to get both dogs fixed, took Maximus and the remaining pups and found them all great homes to friends... we all keep in touch. Leaving out my lecturing and rudeness as you could imagine how mad I was at the situation.

Anyway, I know that is way too early to be away from mommy- unfortunately these things happen. In the house he's never feared, been aggressive or anything undesirable... to dogs, people, kids, name it! It was only out of the house on the leash that he ever had a problem. I may be leaving some things out... however thats pretty much it.

Angeleyes1437
July 1st, 2005, 02:46 PM
Does anyone know if dogs discriminate between species? I am not trying to be funny or sarcastic, I am just wondering if the breed makes a difference in socialization...


Between species or breeds? I know my sister's JRT HATES Boxers... only Boxers. We have no clue why. Dogs have been known to favor or dislike specfic breeds.

toby's tracy
July 1st, 2005, 02:53 PM
oops...yes, I meant breeds! :o

Angeleyes1437
July 1st, 2005, 03:02 PM
I figured that... otherwise there would be a huge YES!! Max hasn't showed any sign of this as he is still young. My poodle was afraid of Husky like breeds, whether it be husky, Alaskan Malamutes etc. Because she was nipped by one... in a dog park! See... I guess dog parks are trouble! My sisters Jack Russell just hates Boxers. I think it is because they tend to be full of energy! He hates that, lol... he is evil... but we love him. Once we see a Boxer we know to keep him away... he won't attack but he will be VERY mean.

Angeleyes1437
July 1st, 2005, 03:27 PM
This post really went off topic huh? It is a good topic regardless though.

Angeleyes1437
July 1st, 2005, 05:27 PM
I just went to pick up Max's food for the month from a local pet supply where they specialize in products for APBT's. One of the owners is actually Abady himself! So with all of this dog park stuff fresh on my mind I brough it up. The woman at the store- wife of the other guy (not abady) raised APBT's with her husband and Abady for 50 years! So I figured who better to ask of their opinion.

I brought up the issue and she said, dog parks do ask for trouble- but to any breed of dog. Of course some Pit Bulls, just like some dogs of other breeds should not go. However it truly depends on the dog. Which is exactly my opinion. She has had APBT's that are sweet to anything and everything and APBT's that had to be seperated from the others their whole life. She still takes her APBT to the park to play with other dogs off leash- but not an actual dog park, she doesn't like them- she said it is asking for your dog to get bitten and hate other dogs forever.


Then she gave me something else to ponder.

She then told me that Maximus is not an APBT!! I mean, everyone says that to me. She said he looks too bully and that he is an American Bulldog... and he is very sweet just like them. I know he looks a lot like an AB, and people always ask me if he is one. I just figured he came out with a lot more Bulldog qualities... I know there are ways around UKC/AKC papers. Do you think it is possible the father could be an American Bulldog?? I saw the parents, but maybe the mom was around an American Bulldog male and there are two fathers to the litter. After all, the people I adopted him from (as you read in my excerpt above) weren't exactly prize breeders! I know they would take them to doggy events and they were around other unaltered dogs a lot... from the questions I was able to ask while I was lecturing them.

My brother in law has been saying that since Maximus was a pup... I don't care what he is- I love him to death as any breed! Just something to think of. Here is a pic... what do you guys think.

babyrocky1
July 2nd, 2005, 01:06 AM
If its true I would be one happy camper!!!! Rocky looks very much like Maximus and my vet has him registered as an american bulldog dalmation X. That however was my doing, here, the vet association stance is that the owner is the best person to determine the breed of their dog. So that is what Ive determined,LOL once the city registers him, likely they will decide he is a pit bull. I got the american bull dog from a dog that lives near us that from a distance I actually thought was my Rocky!!! The dalmation is cause of his spots. Unfortunately Rocky has that ridge down the centere of his head. I think thats a give away, but Max doesnt seem to have it. American bull dogs are bigger, taller than pit bulls or staffs. There faces are shaped a little differently from the staffy, more bull doggy, but its hard to tell from a front facing picture. Do you have pics from a different angle?How tall is he? (Rockys pic is on the Pit Bull Coop thread, way before waldo the troll :) )

Angeleyes1437
July 2nd, 2005, 03:20 PM
babyrocky I swear your dog looks like Maximus so much... Max even has little black spots all over- which is common for American Bulldogs.

His back is about knee high, he's about 65lbs. at 10 months.

Here is a pic of him with me (and I'm pretty tall for a woman 5'8") so you can see his size. I just woke up in the pic... don't mind my funny face and PJ's! :)

babyrocky1
July 2nd, 2005, 05:08 PM
Hey Angel Eyes, Max is so cute... You know I thought I HAD answereed this thread an hour ago and it seems to have gone away!!! Im going to answer it again, cause once you gET to know me better, you will learn tht I am errr...computerly awkward. LOL must have pressed the wrong thing again.... Our dogs are sooo beautiful...lol Rocky has that same pink fleck on his nose.. I just love having a pink dog. Anyway, Max from that angle does look more like an American Bull dog than Rocky does. Rockys face is slimmer, his build is slim for am staff or an American bulldog, He is sixty pounds, very muscular! but not thick. I would post you more pics of him but I dont know how to do it, always get my daughter to, but shes really busy, so its on the list of things to learn. Once I do figure it out Ill probably have them plastered from one end of the site to the otherLOL

babyrocky1
July 2nd, 2005, 05:14 PM
One more thing, all the American Bulldogs that I know are bigger, I think they are from the mastiff family, but I dont know much other than the dogs Ive actually met, Rocky plays with one, errr on leash not in a park...lol He gets completely bewildered cause the dog is a pup maybe eight months old and is sooo much bigger than him, which he is not used to. He likes the play, but he always looks confused by it... Oh Rocky is six. Max looks like he could be a cross of Am bulldog and staff or pit, just because I think that Am bulldogs are bigger but there could be a size range in the breed. Others here would know much better than I. Luckily in your case all that matters is that you have a great doggy! Enjoy :)

mona_b
July 3rd, 2005, 07:43 PM
Here are some pics of a PB American Bulldog.

mona_b
July 3rd, 2005, 07:44 PM
and here is another.

mona_b
July 3rd, 2005, 07:46 PM
and a last one.

Males are 22-27"
Femanles 20-25"

Males 75-125lbs
Females 60-100lbs

Notice that this breed has the "bulldog" features.

mona_b
July 3rd, 2005, 07:53 PM
And this sweetie is a PB American Staff.

mona_b
July 3rd, 2005, 07:54 PM
last one...I promise..LOL

babyrocky1
July 3rd, 2005, 08:11 PM
Thanks for the pics Mona, So the first one is a pit bull crossed with an American Bulldog?

mona_b
July 3rd, 2005, 08:28 PM
Thanks for the pics Mona, So the first one is a pit bull crossed with an American Bulldog?

Opps sorry,the PB meant Purebred....LOL

The last 2 picks are of a Purebred American Staff.

babyrocky1
July 3rd, 2005, 09:32 PM
Duh,,, LOL I couldn't for the life of me figure tht out LOL I really do have pit bulls on the brain lately hahah! Its funny though with the american bull dogs, some really look like pit bulls and others dont. I think alot has to do with the colouring. Do you think that Angel Eyes dog is a cross? Max, he looks like that to me. I love the expression on the lasts guy or gals face!

Angeleyes1437
July 3rd, 2005, 11:58 PM
Yeah, the American Bulldog's are stockier and bigger, there are different kinds however. Some have a face similar to a boxer. I know Maximus is definitely 1/2 APBT... the other half I can't guarantee anything- but I can definitely say if you saw him you would say he doesn't look like a "typical" APBT. Those pups are all so cute, are they yours?

Eleni
July 4th, 2005, 05:42 PM
why cant the dog be socialised on leash??


my dog sam has never been anyplace off leash, and likely never will be, not because hes untrustworthy, but because I dont trust other dogs.


hes just a bichon/poodle cross.

sometimes its just good sence not to tempt fate.

please reconsider the off leash parks,

Eleni

mona_b
July 4th, 2005, 08:05 PM
Duh,,, LOL I couldn't for the life of me figure tht out LOL I really do have pit bulls on the brain lately hahah! Its funny though with the american bull dogs, some really look like pit bulls and others dont. I think alot has to do with the colouring. Do you think that Angel Eyes dog is a cross? Max, he looks like that to me. I love the expression on the lasts guy or gals face!

It's ok,we all have out moments...LOL.

With Max,I do see American Staff.It is definately hard to tell cause of him being all white.

See with a well bred American Bulldog from a reputable breed,they should not look any different from one to another.They should all look the same from one reputable breeder to another.

Spurby
July 5th, 2005, 12:33 AM
There is no way to tell if your dog is AST or APBT(American Staffordshire Terrier/American Pit Bull Terrier) They ALL look the same generally, and many are dual registered. There is no way to tell the difference unless you had papers to say different.

As far as American Bulldogs, well, there are 2 different lines, that look VERY different, so who knows what your dog is! Looks to me APBT, but larger than standard, typical with the BYB.

Spurby
July 5th, 2005, 12:48 AM
Here is an example of the Johnson(type) lines

http://www.barbersbulldogs.com/hannasm.jpg



Here is an example of the performance(type) lines

http://www.dreambulldogranch.com/11-040033.jpg

Angeleyes1437
July 5th, 2005, 03:28 PM
[QUOTE=Eleni]why cant the dog be socialised on leash??

This is one of the worst ways to socialize a dog with other dogs because they feel constricted and will have a higher chance of being fearful. That is not an option, I have taken advice regarding offleash dogs parks... I am no longer going, not because my dog is untrustworthy either but because other people bring unsocialized dogs which is out of my control so I will be running Max early and late in the regular parks with his cousins.


my dog sam has never been anyplace off leash, and likely never will be, not because hes untrustworthy, but because I dont trust other dogs.

I agree, Maximus is very trustworthy as for listening off leash- however I do not trust other people and how they raise their dogs.

hes just a bichon/poodle cross.

as opposed to a pit bull breed? lol. I had a poodle my whole life- they are great dogs she was the sweetest little girl, funny thing is that everyone finds Max to actually be more friendly with people and dogs, what irony!

Angeleyes1437
July 5th, 2005, 03:33 PM
There is no way to tell if your dog is AST or APBT(American Staffordshire Terrier/American Pit Bull Terrier) They ALL look the same generally, and many are dual registered. There is no way to tell the difference unless you had papers to say different.

As far as American Bulldogs, well, there are 2 different lines, that look VERY different, so who knows what your dog is! Looks to me APBT, but larger than standard, typical with the BYB.

I actually didn't have a question about the AST or APBT, I know his mom is APBT. As for the American Bulldogs, I know what you mean... you are right about the lines!

MIA
July 5th, 2005, 03:36 PM
My first dog was a pit and he was not dog aggressive and yes I took him to the off leash parks BUT I had him muzzled and he was VERY well trained. If you want to keep going go, but muzzle your dog. I would also be sure his training is up to snuff. You are right here are lots of irresponsible dog owners and other dogs who are unpredictable, protect yourself and dog if you are going to go. He is also coming of age, so the aggression could still show up. I would also not adopt another dog until he's about 3-4 so you know what you are getting into.

Angeleyes1437
July 5th, 2005, 03:50 PM
My first dog was a pit and he was not dog aggressive and yes I took him to the off leash parks BUT I had him muzzled and he was VERY well trained. If you want to keep going go, but muzzle your dog. I would also be sure his training is up to snuff. You are right here are lots of irresponsible dog owners and other dogs who are unpredictable, protect yourself and dog if you are going to go. He is also coming of age, so the aggression could still show up. I would also not adopt another dog until he's about 3-4 so you know what you are getting into.


Thank you. I agree. I actually spoke to my boyfriend regarding this. You never know, all of the love and socialization in the world could not prevent all possible negative outcomes, and I want to be safe. I will be waiting until he is older and I have a bigger house before considering getting another pup.

As for the dog parks, Maximus is great and very obedient, however... I will be taking him to the regular park at off hours for exercise. As for dog parks, my sister had a issue the other day with her dogs, due to someones out of control lab and very ignorant owner whose response was "Let your dog bite my dog if my (intact) dog keeps humping her, then we will deal with it". Too many irresponsible owners, it's not worth dealing with these people, I want my dog to be safe. And we all know if something was to happen it would be blamed on his breed... I'm not willing to take that chance. Thank you for your response, I agree with you!

Lucky Rescue
July 5th, 2005, 04:40 PM
Thank you Angeleyes for not taking your dog to the dog park anymore! :thumbs up

My dog is not aggressive either, but I cannot tell you how many incidents we have had with other people's off leash, untrained and aggressive dogs - everything from a little mix running out in the road to try and hump her while his owner laughed about it, to two off leash boxers attacking her, to a Lab following us out to the middle of the road, to an Malamute who wants to kill her for no reason. And those are only a few incidents.

If my dog turned and retaliated to any of these dogs, you know who would be blamed and what the headlines would say "PIT BULL ATTACKS FAMILY PET!!" and you would have people yelling for BSL.

It stinks, it's not fair, but it's a fact of life when you own this breed.:(

Most adult pit bulls don't much like other dogs anyway, so depriving them of the company of other dogs is no hardship for them. They MUCH prefer the company of people, at least mine sure does.:)

Angeleyes1437
July 5th, 2005, 04:51 PM
Thanks LR. I know he's still a puppy but Maximus goes crazy for his cousins. I just have to say their names and he starts crying and howling! Probably because he knows them so well. I'm sure that he prefers our company over other dogs, I hope he stays as sweet to other dogs- however I must be prepared that he won't always be as easy going with them.

Do you think he will ever stop loving his cousins? I can't see it happening, but you never know. He is totally obsessed with them, my sister and brother-in-law. A soft "where's Milo?" will have him running about looking for them!

However, I've experienced many issues in dog parks, issues I might have brushed over thinking they were just rare encounters. When in fact it's probably the crowd that gets drawn to these dog parks. I've never had a problem with "the regulars" however the sporatic dog park goers are the issue and I don't want my dog to suffer because I looked over this.

It will be a regular park romp on off hours with me, my bofriend and/or his cousins. Not because of him, and I know you know this- but because it's better to be safe.