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Senior Drivers

Shamrock
June 30th, 2005, 03:58 PM
Dont know if this applies to other regions, but here in B.C, new drivers must display a sign in their back window (the letter "N") for a required length of time ( not sure for how long)
This is a great idea - gives other drivers the "heads-up" of a new and inexperienced driver.. and to use a little more caution and patience .
This sign is not just for "young" drivers.. but of course the vast majority of new drivers ARE young.

Someone has now come up with an idea - displaying the letter "S" for senior drivers. This isnt any type of licencing requirment - but strictly an optional, marketed item that they can use if they WISH to.

Some think this is a very good idea.. while others reject it as discriminatory, based solely on their age.
I must admit I have sometimes become frustrated at the hesitation or pokiness of a slow driver only to feel a bit guilty when I saw that it was a little old lady or gent peeking out from the wheel.
We are often quick to unfairly "categorize" poor drivers into groups - but there is no denying that younger and older drivers present certain risk factors associated with their age. Older drivers have more collisions, younger drivers have more catastrophic ones.

Do you think that the current licencing laws for drivers past 65 re sufficient? Is the testing to verify capability often and thorough enough?
Dementia may begin to affect their concentration, yet can go unnoticed for some time.
Some seniors voluntarily park their car,perhaps with relief. Most will feel it's a crushing blow to their independance - and some resist highly. They simply dont want to give up this important freedom and mobility, very understandable and natural feelings for something that is held dear. :sad:
Accepting that we simply cannot do what we once did, handing over the reigns to others is extremely difficult, but an eventuality.

As the baby boomers continue aging, predictions are for a huge influx of seniors on the roads. In the U.S. alone, a projected 40 million drivers over 65 by the year 2020.

Pause for thought, isnt it?
If Im still around, and still able to - I'll be one of them. :D

glasslass
June 30th, 2005, 05:05 PM
In 2020, I'll be one of them too, God willing. I do, however, already have a sign indicating "senior" driver - white hair! Shows up very vividly in my all-black MR2.

Shamrock
June 30th, 2005, 05:13 PM
lol, Glass! :)
Well I colour my hair, but it occurs to me that, judged by other drivers, the majority much younger - I'm already IN this category. :eek:

angie79
June 30th, 2005, 05:25 PM
it is true that demesia (SP) sets in and they dont know what they are doing, or get freaked out, or drive a certain way but what they are trying to do isn't necessailly what they did.

one of the problems is that there is a dr. shortage this age group needs alot of medical treatment (or soon will) the dr. is who signs off on thier lisence renewal. will sign off on it because of fear that the senior will not come back for medical treatment if they dont.

I have a grandmother 77 cant remenber what happened 5 minutes ago, but can drive.... wow i wonder why... I guess it explains why someone ran in to her when she ran a stop....

I once was in the fast lane on the highway was 21 (looked 16 still do) and a car came out straight in front of me hit it before i saw it.... was like hitting a brick wall (any of you knw daisy antiques in ile perrot that merge)
she said she was merging she was 84 all bystanders went to her and looked at me like i was at fault....

I dont think signs will help damage is done but the time the accedet occures
the Dr.'s need the balls to remove the liscense esp. when the family requests it

sorry about the rant.....
touchy

JDG
June 30th, 2005, 05:30 PM
http://www.nolimits.org.uk/images/main/learner.jpg

In England the 'L' plate system has been around for a while, its law that new drivers must have an 'L' plate on their car or bike. It works well.

I'm not sure how putting an 'S' on the car will help anything.

Don't most countries/provinces have older drivers re-test at a certain point anyways?

Angeleyes1437
June 30th, 2005, 05:35 PM
It is very dangerous to have seniors on the road... well, not all of them- but you know what I mean. The ones with issues, who are slow, scared, cannot see etc. It is almost as bad as driving drunk... I think something needs to be done about this. The ones who are hesitant and slow can cause an accident... a bad one- but even the ones who drive with confidence sometimes make extremely stupid driving moves. For instance my grandfather in his late 60's drive like a champ... he has the reflex's of a cat. However, my grandmother will surely kill someone. I wouldn't want to hurt her feelings, but I'd rather it be that then someone end up physically hurt or killed.

Shamrock
June 30th, 2005, 06:30 PM
JDG, the letter display doesnt do a thing - other than to perhaps offer an alert that reaction time MAY be a bit slower... or something of that nature.
But as they are generally placed in the back of the vehicle..not all drivers would even see this.

My sister's husband is much older than she -but prides himself on his healthy and robust vigor at 82.. and still driving ( she has never driven a car)

On vacation two year ago, he made a serious error at a bridge entrance-this could have been the end of them! Everyone was honking - he didnt realize it was directed at him.. :eek:
A couple of months ago, he failed to stop at a crosswalk, narrowly missing a pedestrian (he was cited and fined for this)
His hearing is shot, and he is becoming somewhat forgetful.
My sister told me this week that he's now only driving very short distances, decided its more relaxing to take the bus. Not because of any "problems'.. he just wants to be able to enoy the scenery.
Good for him, this must have been difficult - but thank goodness! A brief matter of time till he stops entirely, I'm sure of it. The sooner the better.
He and others like this are a real danger to themselves and others.

jjgeonerd
June 30th, 2005, 07:04 PM
I'm not sure what a letter would accomplish for older drivers.

I think they should have a mandatory driving re-test at age 65. Something like every five years until 80 (i.e. 65, 70, 75, & 80), then every other year after that. Not the same driving test as for new drivers...just something to make sure they are still aware of their surroundings, still have some reflexes, and can hear (or wear their aid). I would be more that willing to comply when I get to that age.

Old, nervous drivers scare me...so do teenies on cell phones...so do soccer moms in SUVs with a bunch of kids...actually everybody scares me! :eek: But I ride a motorcycle so that isn't a bad attitude. :D

Prin
June 30th, 2005, 10:59 PM
Oh, I am the worst car stereotyper. Drivers do fit into distinct categories, including car categories. I believe that if you are attracted to a certain car, chances are you have a lot in common with another person with the same car, regardless of age.

The blue-hairs are a problem (I call them Pappy and Gramma), but here in Qc I certainly don't see them as often as I see Busy Joe Businessman, or Distracted Unfocused Overworked Working Mommy, or Macho Muchacho in his suped up junk box. Oooh! The best one is Jenny Hugsthewheel. You know her, the one who sits so close to the wheel she can't breathe? You can see her full seat back in the front window? LOL SOmebody has to teach her how airbags work... :eek:

We need a whole slew of letters. S for "slow in every way", M for "multitasker", W for "rarely ever drives/weekend driver", F for "flaming temper", T for "tourist", I for "thinks s/he's invincible", L for "on my lunch break", B for "brake happy/I brake for pebbles", and E for "big empty, gas guzzling SUV/minivan" (if they're full of people or supplies, they are exempt).

Schwinn
July 1st, 2005, 01:10 PM
Sometimes I think everyone should be re-tested every five years. But I agree about senior drivers. I know some who are great, but then I know others who scare the bejebus out of me! When I lived in Chatham, there was this old guy who drove a classic car, and I don't know how many times I saw him turn in front of people, change lanes without looking, etc. I know myself, SEVERAL times I almost hit this menace when he was turning left. I saw a few people lay down a tire patch jamming on the breaks. I remember someone getting mad at me when I was upset with a senior driver. "Well, they're nervous and scared!" That's EXACTLY who I don't want driving a 2 000lb machine down the road! I LOVE driving, and I hope if I don't have the will to give up when I should, someone who loves me (and those whose lives I'm putting in danger) takes away the keys when it's time.

Karin
July 1st, 2005, 04:51 PM
Take a blue hair that can barely see over the steering wheel...even if they COULD see over, they still can't see...and put them behind the wheel of a 40' diesel pusher motor home bus, then here I come in a teeny weenie golf cart leading them to a site! They all drive like maniacs.
I do this 30 to 40 times a day. Everyday I feel like I could end up like a bug on their windshield and every day I kiss the ground when it's over.
Cheated death one more time.

Prin
July 3rd, 2005, 05:41 PM
LOL Just about 15 minutes ago, I was waiting at a light on a huge boulevard facing south, and a car of old folks came from my right, turned left to go north onto MY side of the median... Going the WRONG WAY. I thought of this thread. Geez.

Joey.E.CockersMommy
July 3rd, 2005, 06:01 PM
My parents are 84 my dad has basically given up driving, but decided to drive on the upper levels highway in West Vancouver in the rain recently while coming back from Vancouver Island. They said no one would let them switch lanes and they kept missing their turn offs. My mom still drives but honestly I think it is time she gave it up. She drives about 20k below the speed limit and drives half on the shoulder and half on the road and usually has a long line of cars behind them. Up until about 2 years ago they had huge camper they would travel with. I am actually glad they don't do that anymore.

Shamrock
July 4th, 2005, 02:57 PM
Yikes, Karin! Do they give you any danger pay? :eek: I recall when I visited Florida there was a fairly stern warning on the blue-rinse set behind the wheel.

Prin.. omg.. how scary! That is a driver's worst nightmare -someone coming at you the wrong way.


Researchbulls.. At least they dont have the camper anymore. less worry for you. I can see how that happened on the Upper Levels.. the same highway that my brother-in-law was travelling - until recently. He works weekends still, in West Vancouver. It's extremely fast-paced, isnt it, and exits can be tricky if you are unsure. I think myself only the Sea-to-Sky highway is more dangerous for the Lower Mainland region. Both have had many fatal accidents. :sad:
For a person who may be slower to react - intimidating and risky - especially in the rain and/or dark..

melanie
July 4th, 2005, 05:06 PM
in oz they test young drivers and new drivers ridiculously, it takes 5yrs to get a licence here, i will have a full one in a month or so, and all up atthe cost of around $500. its a horrific and terrible system where young pp, are harasses so much,we are good drivers but the death rates are so high (i think its all related to power in cars and new technology that those teaching us to drive have never had)... but any way if they treat young drivers like this i see no reason why oder drivers should not have the same system...

so many deaths occur at the hands of the elderly in cars, and its often tragic for both parties....

2004 a man aged 62 passed out at the wheel and drove into the 'Round House' child care centre in sydney. the crash caused a mjr fire, two children did not escape, both girls survived with the most horrific injuries, both have lost body parts and will suffer the trauma forever, these girls are only 3yrs old, they are little battlers but they wwill have a hard life filled with constnat operations and skin grafts.... if that driver was physically tested more often it may never have happened....

and that is one of the many horrific stories i know of......

all drivers weather old or young should be rigourously tested regularly, driving a vehicle is a dangerous thing to do and you ahve alot of heavy metal at your finger tips. the danger present in a vehicle and presented by a poor driver behind the wheel is one of the greatest...bu8t how many times have you seen a normal looking person of average age do somethng stupid at the wheel?? not to mention alot of my older friends often say if they were tested today they would fail as they have no idea of the current road rules... yeah thats reassuring...

we seem to have forgotten the dangers of driving, cars have been in our lives for a while now, perhaps we are becoming complacent???

OdinAndAlan
July 4th, 2005, 08:50 PM
I drive quite a bit as well, and I've seen my share of close calls. I definitely agree on the mandatory testing every so often for all drivers. I feel that many people need reminders of what is legal and what isn't. Something else interesting is a suggestion of licensing different skill levels for drivers (I didn't think of this, found this in a magazine editorial). So perhaps the beginner driver would be limited to a certain class of cars (maybe determined by engine power?) while and the expert driver would not be limited in the cars that he or she could drive. It's harder to get yourself into trouble if you can't go fast enough to get in trouble in the first place.

For stories, I saw an old lady driving a toyota celica with her hands on top of the steering wheel, her torso inches away from the airbag, straining to see over the dashboard, and driving 20km/h below the speed limit on a sunny day. Oh, the celica had the factory body kit and wing (feel free to ask if you want to see what it looks like and why I found this so funny).

Prin
July 4th, 2005, 10:24 PM
Prin.. omg.. how scary! That is a driver's worst nightmare -someone coming at you the wrong way.
I had another a couple years ago going the wrong way on the Ville-Marie expressway-- in the far left lane... If you don't know what highway I'm talking about, it's basically a highway in Montreal with pretty tall walls on either side of each direction. There's no place to pull a U turn, there's no way to get off if you're going the wrong way. I haven't a clue how the person got on in the first place. I called the cops and they were so confused-- it was incomprehensible that someone was going the wrong way on the Ville Marie...

angie79
July 5th, 2005, 07:08 AM
I've been guilty of going the wrong way on a one way, there is so many one ways down town montreal where you can get on and its not marked. I was on at the time not busy going along and after a minute I realized....ooops.

But on the high way :eek: !!! thats crazy....

but wrong way on a one way I think all montreal driver have done it, will do it or have at one time almost done it.

Daisy's Owner
July 5th, 2005, 07:28 AM
I think they should have a mandatory driving re-test at age 65. Something like every five years until 80 (i.e. 65, 70, 75, & 80), then every other year after that. Not the same driving test as for new drivers...just something to make sure they are still aware of their surroundings, still have some reflexes, and can hear (or wear their aid).

I agree with this as well. Something really needs to be done.

This was all over the news here last week. A 72 year old man with Alzheimers driving with his wife, stopped at a gas station in Antigonish. The wife got out and he drove off without her. They found his car later in the week. They found his body later that same day. He died of exposure.

This man should NOT have been behind the wheel.

chico2
July 5th, 2005, 07:52 AM
I am approaching the Blue-hair-stage(at 61)although my hair is naturally white :D
To make our highways safer:
BAN cell-phones while driving,like other western countries!
Raise driving age to at least 18yrs.
Ban tiny Honda Civics.
Drivers test for seniors(I believe it's already in place)
My husband and I have never had an accident,except at the ever dangerous mall parkinglot,I consider myself a good driver,although a little heavy on the pedal.. :D
Slow,slow drivers going 40km/h down a 60km/h road,with no chance of passing him,I must admit,makes me edgy...and it usually is a senior(more senior than me!) taking his car for a stroll...
Hubbie(at 62) has been known to say"Ah,figures,another old fart!!"
But I can think of a hundred other dangers,Prin gave some wonderful examples!!

angie79
July 5th, 2005, 08:13 AM
hey whats wrong with Honda Civic's, people drive in to me not the other way.
there are smaller cars, echo's and others

Prin
July 5th, 2005, 11:48 AM
Ban tiny Honda Civics. The funny thing is, honda civics, though tiny are often MUCH safer in accidents than other bigger sedans. Same with Tercels. Pontiac Sunfire and Chev Cavalier and Dodge Neon are the WORST in any kind of accident and they're about 500lbs bigger than a tercel. Here are some stats: in a side impact crash in a Cavalier, or Sunfire at 17mph, you have a 49% chance of DYING. In a tercel in the same crash, you have a 15% chance of GETTING HURT. Bigger is not better. Honda designs their cars very well. Toyota too.

The reason they are on the news for crashes is a) the target age group, and b) when an american sedan crashes, it's usually so scrambled, you can't tell what kind of car it was.

Melinda
July 5th, 2005, 11:53 AM
I agree with Chico2, driving age has to be raised,(mother myself of a19 and 20 yr old drivers) reflex and eye tests done after the age of 65, and Ontario should ban cell phone use in moving vehicles.

jjgeonerd
July 5th, 2005, 12:00 PM
[QUOTE=chico2]
To make our highways safer:
BAN cell-phones while driving,like other western countries!
Raise driving age to at least 18yrs.
Ban tiny Honda Civics.
QUOTE]

+1 on the cell phones!

IMO raising the driving age wouldn't help. A new driver would be 2 years older (supposedly more responsible) but they'd have 2 years less experience...which is all important. IMO the responsibility factor probably doesn't kick in until at least 25, so experience becomes more important.

I believe the small cars actually do better than trucks and SUVs in crash tests. Someone can correct me if 'm wrong. Either way...ban Hummers if anything...huge and they guzzle gas! I hate those things. :)

Schwinn
July 5th, 2005, 01:02 PM
Sometimes I think everyone should be re-tested every five years.

I forgot to add, except for me! :D

I think the Civics you are talking about are the ones that are all "blinged" out (I hate that word even more than I hate Civics with useless wings and stock engines). Being a car guy, I too hate them, but probably for different reasons. We have one, great car, and it'd be better if Cheryl would let me "tune" it a little bit.

I think there should be a special department that drives around all day with a whole bunch of old Monarchs and Chevettes, and when someone has a powerful car that they refuse to do more than 10 under the speed limit in, they are forced to hand it over to some shmuck like me who can't afford it, and then are given one of the cars of the truck. Them, and people who do stupid things to cars. Of course, I'd be in charge of deciding what was stupid, just to make sure I don't lose my own car...

kandy
July 5th, 2005, 01:39 PM
I don't think there are any special tests for senior drivers here. I'm not positive, since I'm not that old, but I know that my 90+ year old neighbor still drives and I pity the people who get behind him! I think as long as you can pass the eye test (required every 8 years) and never let your license expire - they'll keep renewing it. I know that on the interstate highway that I have to travel to go to work, there are always oldtimers going 50 mph when the speed limit is 75. I am surprised more of them don't get squished by all the semi trucks!

chico2
July 5th, 2005, 02:20 PM
Well,you all know,I do not mean Honda Civics are the culprit,but doing a lot of highway driving,I am not surprised sooo many kids are killed every year in their sooped up little monsters...thinking they are invinsible.
As for them being safer than a larger car(SUV or such)that is just simply bull...but we have discussed this soo many times before,no need to anymore...first you have to drive an SUV,then you be the judge!!
Common sense will tell you Smartcar,Echo little Hondas will not survive a crash with a larger car,be it an SUV,Van or simple a larger car!!

CyberKitten
July 5th, 2005, 02:38 PM
I find this whole issue of seniors and driving habits discriminatory. It labels a group and that in itself is wrong. There are some bad drivers among that group and since they tend to have more medical problems, some who should not be driving. But to target an entire group like that is horrible!!!

New and young drivers have been proven to be a more serious menace on the road - than most seniors. Are they targetted? (I guess they are by their insurance companies but that is a different story).

I think so much depends on the individual driver. One who has a medical problem that pecludes driving and fails to listen to her/his doctor is a problem that needs to be dealt with legally by the proper authroities. Usually, we can discern a good or bad driver and be cautious around them. I am cautious around young drivers and less so around older drivers - my parents are in their seventies and if I had to admit it, I'd say they drive better than I do! A young neighbour who is 19 is absolutely the worst driver I have ever seen and he scares me to no end!

I would vote against such a measure as no doubt the CARP et al will.

jjgeonerd
July 5th, 2005, 02:46 PM
I think the main issue why SUVs and trucks are statistically more dangerous is because of their roll over risk. On a purely mass basis then larger is obviously safer, but driver skill also plays a significant part. Overreacting and rolling an SUV or truck (which happens a lot) is usually worse than the original accident would have been. I currently own an SUV (Nissan Xterra) but used to own a car (Nissan Maxima) and I feel/felt fine in both. Maybe ignorance is bliss! :D

Do they sell Smart Cars in Canada? Andy Rooney talked about those and it was the 1st time I had seen them. My wife said she saw quite a few on a business trip to the Netherlands. Cool idea, but I would definently be nervous in one of them on US roads...or a Mini Cooper! :eek:

CyberKitten
July 5th, 2005, 02:56 PM
If I had been driving a SmartCar when I hit Bullwinkle the Moose (not by choice), I would be dead. Fortunately, I was drving an SUV. Sometimes, you need to think about the geography and enviornment where you live!

jjgeonerd
July 5th, 2005, 03:10 PM
You killed Bullwinkle!! :sad: Just kidding...hope you're OK :D

I agree...I was just saying that mass doesn't always mean safer; however, in some situations if definently does.

Schwinn
July 5th, 2005, 03:15 PM
I don't know if you'd get the smart car to go fast enough to kill a moose. I hear they don't get bug splatters, the flies just get concussions from bouncing off the windshield.

chico2
July 5th, 2005, 03:45 PM
No matter what you drive,it depends on the driver....we've had 4 Jeep Cherokees,beginning in 1980 and I swear by them!!
I see vans in roll-overs just about every week in the news...rollovers is not the only danger,a head on collision usually is much more serious and then,I rather be in my Jeep than a Smartcar.Not only that,but they look like a joke...I am a bit of a car-buff,even at my age and I would be embarassed in one of those little tin-cans :D
CK,as usual you make a lot of sense,I know a 81yr old man,smart as a whip and an excellent driver,it's a very individual thing,the same as not all 16yr olds are too young and immature to drive,but I believe most are,hence the high insurance rip-off!!

Shamrock
July 5th, 2005, 04:47 PM
Well, I certainly agree that its unfair to paint all senior drivers with the same brush. No one wants to be judged by a "perceived" notion of what their capabilities are - in driving or "any" endeavour Each case should be judged indiividually - regardless of age.

But statisics indicate that these two age groups DO have the most accidents, and therefore there's a higher "element" of risk.
Older drivers have more accidents, but younger have the most fatal crashes so are more of a concern.

For SOME seniors.. cognitive functions could be declining and affecting their ability to drive safely. And - it may go un-noticed ( and unchallenged)
A year or two can make a big difference. More frequent testing and careful screening could help catch this.

For me, its not young or old... but aggressive, pushy drivers that scare the heck out of me. And.. they come in all age and gender groups.

Tailgating, darting in and out of lanes, running red lights, all going to a fire, apparently. I dont know how your city compares, but here in Vancouver... its totally commonplace to have three and even four cars clear the intersection AFTER the light has changed to red. Why even bother with lights? :D

Bearsmom
July 5th, 2005, 05:08 PM
Don't see the point to identifying any driver till they find a cure for the ones that can't see EMERGENCY VEHICLES GOING TO A CALL!

melanie
July 5th, 2005, 05:19 PM
we should not tar the seniors with this brush, we should tar all.......cars are huge metal objects that go really fast, we need to reassess how we view driving, unfortunalty some ppl do slow down as they get older, reaction times, etc...

its not rude or derogatory to ask that all those in a certian age group be tested, its called safety, not being rude... my life and that of my family is very precious, i would rather have ppl tested rigourously at older ages than take the risks associated, and if a few hurt feelings are caused by wanting safety, well thats just a bit of tough luck, we will all be there one day too.

i cant believe it is not illeagle to talk on a mobile phone in canada, man your govt must have a death wish...

ans we have restrictions on enguine sizes here, no V8s for learners, does not really matter doesnt do much for the raod toll....and we have some of the strictest testing and training regimes in the world for our young drivers....

i think it all comes down to cars being dangerous and ppl will die and it does not matter what you do really...

i think the problem is also technology.... we need to learn to drive for this technology and teach the young how to do it properly... for eg, my father tells me when he was young in the 60's a normal family car could not reach 100km per hr in under 15secounds, and he has not hasd a driving test since then, so he is driving more powerful cars without having been assessed for ability to do so.... now alot of family cars can do that easily, we need to adapt to this tech.....

now off to race in my hot little car on the back roads of the aussie bush with my subwoffa giving me all its got,, yahhhhhhhaaaaaaaa.....

melanie
July 5th, 2005, 05:20 PM
we should not tar the seniors with this brush, we should tar all.......cars are huge metal objects that go really fast, we need to reassess how we view driving, unfortunalty some ppl do slow down as they get older, reaction times, etc...

its not rude or derogatory to ask that all those in a certian age group be tested, its called safety, not being rude... my life and that of my family is very precious, i would rather have ppl tested rigourously at older ages than take the risks associated, and if a few hurt feelings are caused by wanting safety, well thats just a bit of tough luck, we will all be there one day too.

i cant believe it is not illeagle to talk on a mobile phone in canada, man your govt must have a death wish...

ans we have restrictions on enguine sizes here, no V8s for learners, does not really matter doesnt do much for the raod toll....and we have some of the strictest testing and training regimes in the world for our young drivers....

i think it all comes down to cars being dangerous and ppl will die and it does not matter what you do really...

i think the problem is also technology.... we need to learn to drive for this technology and teach the young how to do it properly... for eg, my father tells me when he was young in the 60's a normal family car could not reach 100km per hr in under 15secounds, and he has not hasd a driving test since then, so he is driving more powerful cars without having been assessed for ability to do so.... now alot of family cars can do that easily, we need to adapt to this tech.....

now off to race in my hot little car on the back roads of the aussie bush with my subwoffa giving me all its got,, yahhhhhhhaaaaaaaa.....

from a disgruntled green provisional driver who is going broke trying to get a licence...

OdinAndAlan
July 5th, 2005, 06:27 PM
I remember when i got my licence i thought that the tests were rather easy. Turn left here, turn right here, park here. I think that the testing that we have in Ontario is only good enough to see if you're a good driver in minimal traffic. I actually asked my parents why reaction times and the ability to cope with a stressful situation were not tested (for all drivers, not just a particular group). They didn't really know what to tell me at the time. I think we all know that the more we practice at an activity the better we get at it. So why is it that there isn't mandatory emergency manoevers training and stuff like that?

Prin
July 5th, 2005, 06:56 PM
The newer Hondas are better equipped to handle a collision with an suv. They just started doing crash tests with an suv-height crasher last year.

All I can say is if safety is a real concern for you, research about it. You will be surprised at how unsafe the behemoths are-- and not about rolling over. I mean in simple crash tests. So many fail miserably, but people believe they are safe because they're in something huge.

All I can say is BRING ON THE $2.00/L gas. Then only the disgustingly rich will afford the behemoths, and we'll all be safer in only littler cars. Like in Europe. Ahhhh, Europe. C'mon Big Gas!! Raise the prices!!! :)

Toyota, if you're listening, North America needs some of these:

jjgeonerd
July 5th, 2005, 08:20 PM
^^^^^^^^^

Now that is one boring car! :p

mafiaprincess
July 5th, 2005, 08:58 PM
I saw a smart car in bumper to bumper traffic on the 401 last month. All I could think was *splat* if it ever got in a collision.

It's bad drivers in general that scare me. Too many times nearly being t-boned at a stop sign *4 way stop* where I clearly was there a long time before anyone else..

Or sittign at a red light wantign to go through.. turns green and the person opposite me makes a left while I'm half way through...

If I have a V8 I'd smoke some of these people. Thankfully my inline 4 is a wuss, and doesn't get to speed fast enough.. and that has saved me a lot.

Last week I saw a cement truck run a full red light..

Driving almost terrifies me there are so many bad drivers..

Ontario is looking into changing the g2 rules so that there would be potentially fewer accidents. Like limiting the number of passengers under 25 to one.

Karin
July 5th, 2005, 08:58 PM
Prin, when was the last time you graced our highways for a road trip in the United States?

How long was that trip?

Where did you go?


What were you driving?

?

chico2
July 5th, 2005, 10:30 PM
Actually Prin,I am of the older generation and would never even in a million years,buy a Toyota,Honda,Kia,Smart-car or anything like it...Yes,we own a Volvo as well as the Jeep,it's being Swedish has something to do with it :D
But a Japanese car never,ever...and not only because it's Japanese,I try to stay away from anything from that part of the world..including cars.
Anyway,it's really nobodys business what we drive,we pay for the car,we pay for the gas,nobody else!!
Sure the V8,5,9L Jeep takes a lot of gas,but as for pollution and the environment,there are plenty of old clunkers on the road,spewing out double the poison of a newer Jeep.End of discussion for me....I LOVE both our cars :thumbs up

Prin
July 5th, 2005, 11:48 PM
Prin, when was the last time you graced our highways for a road trip in the United States?

How long was that trip?

Where did you go?


What were you driving?

?
Why do you ask? :) To be honest, it was 1992. We went to Atlanta to visit my aunt right before the Olympics for a couple of weeks. We were in my dad's 1991 Honda Accord Ex. Burgundy with grey interior. Standard transmission, 4 cylinders. On the highway, it got 800kms/45 litres. City, about 4-500kms/45L. It had a dent above the right front wheel. And the ceiling had a rip in it from the tips of my dad's Dynastar skis the first week he got the car.. :D

Other than that, I've driven all over Canada in my Acura 1.6EL.
Now that is one boring car!
jjgeonerd, it's not so boring when you get the 160hp one... Stick of course.

Karin
July 6th, 2005, 05:22 AM
If I was driving a Honda 3 weeks ago I would be taking the big dirt nap now.

My opinion....the highways in the US are probably the most unsafe roads then anywhere in the world. Drivers here are crazy, many laws are not enforced enough and not enough money is spent to repair the highways and the "off the main drag" roads. To avoid the DOT it is common practice for the semis to take these side roads which do much damage to them. DOT knows this too but does nothing.

In a nutshell, because the roads are so dangerous here I want to be riding in something with a little more steel under and over my butt.

Schwinn
July 6th, 2005, 10:00 AM
Welcome to Canada. "Oh, boo-hoo! You're being mean and discriminating against me, which is wrong no matter how based in fact it is!". Sorry, don't mean to offend, but the PC crap in the country I love has been grating on my nerves quite a bit lately. I'm tired of walking on egg-shells around everyone because I might be accused of pre-judging or discrimination, whether that is true or not. But that's another rant.

The bottom line is that as you age, your reaction time and cognitive skills deteriorate. When you are younger, you are tested to see if you have those skills. If you do, you get to spend the next 50 years driving like everyone else, not being tested again, unless there is reason to suspect that you may be lacking in required skills (ie. head injury, dangerous driving charge, etc.) It's a scientific fact that at a certain age, EVERYONE is at a diminished capacity. By defining an age, it makes certain that people still have the required skills. (Incidently, one day I was washing my car in the building I used to live in. I watched an elderly woman spend more than 5 minutes taking a walk to her car, which took me less than 10 seconds to do. She put her cane in the trunk, and slowly climbed in her car, lifting her feet with her hands. I hope she never has to slam on the breaks to avoid hitting one of my loved ones!)

While it can be argued that young people as a group may be more dangerous, the difference is, young people tend to get into accidents due to immaturity (racing, goofing around). We can test for cognitive skills, that can't be faked. They haven't developed a test for jackass yet. Until then, we have to rely on the police to catch the rest.

jjgeonerd
July 6th, 2005, 10:22 AM
jjgeonerd, it's not so boring when you get the 160hp one... Stick of course.

Sorry...still boring looking. ;) Although that is more HP than I would have expected. I'd take a mini instead just because it looks better IMO. Probably a great quality car though.


I agree with Schwinn's last post totally. "A test for jackass"...classic! :)

Prin
July 6th, 2005, 02:09 PM
Schwinn, I missed the PC part... Maybe I was asleep at the wheel, but I didn't see anybody really being nice about senior drivers. Some said they knew some who were still very sharp, but nothing too offended... Maybe I'll reread.

How about the woman last week who stepped on the gas instead of the brake, ran a guy over and realized what she did and accidentally pressed on the gas again and ran him over better? She was a senior too.

I look back at what I wrote about the old man turning into my lane going the wrong way, and I wonder: How many 16 year olds would do that? None. Sure, like Angie said, streets on Montreal are poorly marked, but when there is a median and feshly painted lines all over, no teenager would miss that. No adult would miss that.

Karin, I don't know if the south is worse than the north of the States, but Vermont and New York roads are awesome to drive on. Like driving on freshly paved roads ALL THE TIME!! You cross the border into Quebec and it's like hitting dirt road. Watch out for the pot holes. Did you know Quebec is one of the only places where you can't sue ANYBODY if your car is damaged in anyway due to a crater-sized a pot hole? There are so many huge ones, they passed a law.

(Oooh-- Vermont has the great roads but they also have those invisible green police cars... "The better to nail you with, my dear".. Can't see those till it's too late. ) ;)

Schwinn
July 6th, 2005, 03:40 PM
Schwinn, I missed the PC part... Maybe I was asleep at the wheel, but I didn't see anybody really being nice about senior drivers. Some said they knew some who were still very sharp, but nothing too offended... Maybe I'll reread.



I'm just INCREDIBLY crusty these days (sorry all), and interpreted some people as saying it wasn't fair to seniors. It wasn't directed at any individual, so please don't take offense to my crustiness.

jjgeonerd
July 6th, 2005, 03:44 PM
I don't know if the south is worse than the north of the States, but Vermont and New York roads are awesome to drive on. Like driving on freshly paved roads ALL THE TIME!!

Come visit Seattle :eek: We'll change your mind about US road conditions!! ;)

Prin
July 6th, 2005, 10:53 PM
Been to Quebec? I'd like someone to compare to Quebec.
Here's some pot holes in Montreal. The bad ones.
http://www.caaquebec.com/en/automobile/nids_region.asp?idRegion=6

I like this quote about a set of potholes:
ressemble un champs de mines. (like a mine field) :D

And this one: (these guys are funny)
Chabanel between l'Acadie and St-Laurent (Both directions). I think this was once a road... -

CyberKitten
July 7th, 2005, 03:49 PM
Re: I don't know if you'd get the smart car to go fast enough to kill a moose. I hear they don't get bug splatters, the flies just get concussions from bouncing off the windshield.

lol Schwinn. The Smart Car would probably just go right under the moose or get stuck underneath it, lol :D

chico2
July 7th, 2005, 04:12 PM
I have to agree with Prin,On our way to South Carolina,once you pass Buffalo and New York State,get in to Pennsylvania the highways are a dream,as is the view,West Virginia,Virginia the same,beautiful monuntains and nice curvy highways...however once you get further south they are not as good...but they are working on that :D
The worst and scariest driving I've ever seen was in Montreal,even beats Paris France!We actually parked the car at the hotel and enjoyed wonderful Montreal on foot :D
But driving any long distance we are always 100% more comfortable in our Jeep compared to the Volvo.