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Fun with Protozoans

pags
June 29th, 2005, 01:33 PM
I posted last night asking about upper respiratory infections and humidifiers because Judge was feeling generally lousy yesterday with an icky sticky runny nose and a new hacking cough. I found another website before we went to bed that actually did suggest the use of a humidifier for puppies with kennel cough... So we set one up in the kitchen before we went to sleep.

Well -- I doubt the humidifier was this miraculous but when we woke up this morning we found a happy, perky, and hungry puppy bounding around the kitchen yipping at us. I was relieved until I realized that this happy perky bounding puppy had also developed diarrhea! Moan.

I survived the trip to the vet this morning with all the kids in tow. (Please be proud of me - I am...) Judge didn't have a fever. Yay! His runny nose is running clear today. Yay! His glands are a little swollen. Doh! And the vet tells me he's got coccidia. Big doh. All I know about this is it's something my dogs have all been vaccinated against... and it's all about protozoa (I have an inkling of these from my biology classes...) but it's certainly nothing I've ever dealt with. The doctor gave me some nice liquid medication to administer twice a day for the next two weeks and told me to keep my fingers crossed. He said it's definitely something that our fuzzball picked up in the shelter and it also makes him more prone to other things -- such as his current 'cold', etc - because the immune system is weakened.

I know a lot of you have worked or do work in rescue.. and you know a lot more about pet illnesses than I do... So if there's anything you think I should know about this -- I would greatly appreciate the info!!

Luba
June 29th, 2005, 05:19 PM
This did NOT come up on my new posts...sorry dear I would have responded sooner I was NOT ignoring your post I PROMISE!! (bacon promise) LOL

I wouldn't use the moist air, my theory on that one is it encourages the production of bacteria..so x the humidifier imho.

Remember that antibiotic I told you about, it's pretty much the safest of the bunch for puppies, talk to your vet about it....give him some rice / mashed potato for his poopies :D

Tylosin I think it was...I'll have to look it up again just goin from memory.

Give him a little yogurt and but some oregano oil put in one drop in a tablespoon of yogurt ...will help any infections as well. no more then one drop because he's so young. IF he reacts to it negatively in any way stop it immediately. You can put it in yogurt or cottage cheese just mix it well.

IF you want to use a humidifier approach put two or three drops of oregano oil in a pan of water let simmer and keep him in the kitchen to inhale it that way.

CAn get oil of oregano at any health food store :D

pags
June 29th, 2005, 05:28 PM
OMG Thank you, Luba! You're better than bacon!

I'll nix the humidifier.. didn't think about the moist air thing at all... BUT I do happen to have some oregano oil (I used to make my own candles and bug sprays and other stuf and Judge does happen to sleep in the kitchen..... So these things can be done!

I've written everything down.. including the advice you had given me for Moose so the antibiotic is in there somewhere... I think Tylosin sounds familiar. I'll ask him about it. He's on some thing.. er it says SXT for the little amoeba critters.

And we've been using the Luba menu since the first night he seemed under the weather. :) I swear it's the mashed potatoes that got him up and eating again!

Thank you thank you.

And a huge thanks to angie for thinking of us too!!!

Bacon all around!

angie79
June 29th, 2005, 05:37 PM
ok good to know that it must not of poped up 5 hours with no reply must of been some falt in the system... I was at physio at that time so if i refreshed when i got home it would of been gone......

to bad about the diagnosis, but good thing you did have that apt...
I dont know what it is but its good its under control :thumbs up

your going to have a healthy pup in no time :thumbs up

pags
June 29th, 2005, 05:51 PM
Thank you angie!! I think we'll make it. Two weeks. We can do this! He can do this. We'll do this! The fear is that we could be looking at something much worse... but the vet said there's no reliable way to tell that until he doesn't respond to his treatment for the coccidae and the symptoms worsen or new ones appear. I hereby banish distemper from my home.

Oh boy - if you had seen this puppy last night... Argh if you had seen ME.. I was a total wreck. He was droopy and his nose was awful and the cough was horrible and I could tell he was feverish even when I just picked him up. He didn't eat a thing either. Argh!!!

I can't explain why he woke up this morning looking so much better. I have no idea where the nose goo has gone or why he doesn't have a fever today but MAN am I glad.

Luba
June 29th, 2005, 05:54 PM
After doing some on line reading I don't think the antibiotic will help much.

Need to build up bacteria healthy bacteria in the intestines to get rid of this stuff, so I'd suggest the yogurt and mix some oil of oregano with it (one drop thingy like mentioned)

Grapeseed extract has been known to help kill intestinal parasites. And there are tonnes of paracleanse type products in 'our' health food stores. You can read the ingredients make sure it's safe (most of them are ok) then just sprinkle a 'little' from a capsul onto his food.

He may get 'more' of the poopies as his body cleanses itself of the nasty parasite..this is normal and you'll probably see mucus as well. Don't worry :D

pags
June 29th, 2005, 06:04 PM
Okay so that's probably why the vet didn't prescribe an antibiotic at this point.. and he said he didn't want to prescribe for the cold as he wasn't running a fever either... So that makes sense now... Little protozoans aren't gonna respond to an antibiotic anyway.

By the way -- how much yogurt for him, Luba? He weighs a whopping 4 pounds today.

Luba
June 29th, 2005, 06:11 PM
What you can do is mix the yogurt maybe a teaspoon with a tablespoon of mashed potato and then the oregano.

I'd do that 2x a day see how he reacts to it. If he is ok for the first 2/3 times then up the drop to 2 drops of oregano.

With his regular meals the boiled chicken and stuff you can give him cottage cheese to help him put on weight :D

pags
June 29th, 2005, 06:25 PM
What you can do is mix the yogurt maybe a teaspoon with a tablespoon of mashed potato and then the oregano.

I'd do that 2x a day see how he reacts to it. If he is ok for the first 2/3 times then up the drop to 2 drops of oregano.

With his regular meals the boiled chicken and stuff you can give him cottage cheese to help him put on weight :D

Okay that sounds fair enough. Oh and I am SO looking forward to more poopies! Woohoo! And mucus too! Woo!

But look at this, would ya? I mean.. It makes the poopies worth it really. (By the way I was practicing for the 'make your dog look like a pit bull' photo contest.. i don't think we have a chance of winning....)

goldenblaze
June 29th, 2005, 10:50 PM
Coccidia is not something pets are vaccinated against, it's spread through the feces or through contaminated food or water plus can be passed from the nursing dam to her whelp. It develops quickly in the pups intestines. For pervention, practice conscientious hygiene in a dry, clean living environment with good exposure to light.

Coccidia is what Frodo came with when left the breeders ( we all know which breeder I had a large thread about them. Blaze is Frodo's 1/2 brother same breeder, just one more sickness) :eek:

Frodo was taken to see Vet as he was lifeless only 2 days after coming home, he had coccidia it took 6 weeks of med to clear it up but he was fine after. This breeder has a dirty barn so we had no doubt where his sickness came from.

I'm sure he will be ok, I must say Judge sure is sweet looking little guy. :love:

Luba
June 29th, 2005, 11:17 PM
My goodness that sweet lil baby is so adorable :D squish squish squish

Yes the poopies are worth it for the puppies LOL

Prin
June 29th, 2005, 11:20 PM
I'm glad he got diagnosed... Stay away from antibiotics- protozoans are not bacteria, and won't respond. The drugs will just weaken the doggy further.

And what everybody else said. :D

pags
June 29th, 2005, 11:37 PM
Oh thanks, goldenblaze!! You're absolutely right ... Now that I look closely at the vaccination record there's no such animal in there... it's just always outlined with the other communicable diseases in the literature. Since I'm a total spaz I think I always assumed that whatever Coccidia was it must be lumped in one of those multi-vaccinations. Now I see what you mean!! Told you I have no clue about this stuff... never had to deal with it before.

And man am I sorry that Frodo had to deal with it!!

No surprise about origins here either... let's just say that we all took baths and showers as soon as we got home from the shelter - just to get the smell of the place off of us. ARGH.

Thank you for your insight and the info. Finding out now that it could take six weeks or more is scary but good.. I need to know what we could be in for so we're properly prepared.

pags
June 29th, 2005, 11:44 PM
And what everybody else said. :D

LOL Prin! :D

Thank you! I'm beginning to get a better idea of all of this now.. what we need is a stronger cleaner healthier puppy so he can kick the little single-celled buggers out. I was worried at first about the lack of antibiotic but NOW I see .. NOW I see.. An antibiotic would be counterproductive because it would compromise the immune system further.

goldenblaze
June 30th, 2005, 11:00 AM
Thank you for your insight and the info. Finding out now that it could take six weeks or more is scary but good.. I need to know what we could be in for so we're properly prepared.

Sorry your little one is sick, I know how they act with this and it's sad . When I say it took 6 weeks please remember he was feeling much better, we all thought after the first 2 weeks he was ok. But when went for check up he needed more meds and it lasted total of 6 weeks then he was fine after that. Frodo acted like he was dead most of the time, didn't want to move, eat nothing oh it was sad. We were all happy when we knew it was cleared up and he was ok once and for all. Good luck and again try not to worry too much it will work out. :)

Luba
June 30th, 2005, 11:02 AM
Antibiotics suck lol unless u really need them. I'm sure some vets would rx you just to make some money...these little buggers will steer clear of antibioticis...nasty little microbes LOL

pags
June 30th, 2005, 11:24 AM
You know.. there's just something worse about knowing you have nasty microbes around your house while you're pregnant. I think it's the nesting thing... I've been walking around for two days with Lysol in one hand and Bleach in the other. And then I read this article last night that says that you can't effectively kill coccidia oocysts (ew) without flame treatment... So NOW I have to go get out the flame thrower. How inconvenient! *grumble*

Oh question - so far our insane puppy has been doing pretty well.. Tuesday, like I said, he acted like warmed-over death. But yesterday and today he's crazed puppy again. He spent the morning herding the baby's stuffed animals at top speed and he's a complete beast when he's eating. Do you think we're just in the beginning stages of this thing and we should expect for him to decline some again before this is over?

Oh.. Here's Judge this morning doing his best vampire puppy impression.

angie79
June 30th, 2005, 12:09 PM
"You know.. there's just something worse about knowing you have nasty microbes around your house while you're pregnant."

pags i didn't know you were pregnant.... do you think its safe for you to be cleaning the poopies? and hadleing the pup?

dont know how to do the quote thing

pags
June 30th, 2005, 12:28 PM
I asked the vet about it, angie. He said that these critters were uh.. Isoblahblah-something-or-the-others... And not Toxoplasma-something somethings which are the ones which can affect humans. Obviously, just to be SAFE I have relegated most of the poopie cleaning to my dear husband... (He's so lucky) but for those times when there's nobody here but me (it's rare - he's only had one kitchen-related accident I've had to clean since this weekend) I've got the elbow-length rubber gloves, a shameful waste of disposable towels, and buckets of disinfectant.

I'll keep trying to be extra careful... I'm gonna wash the skin off my hands. :p
It's so sweet of you to think of it, angie. Thank you! Most people totally forget that I'm pregnant around here at the house.. I think I've done it so much people are just used to it... So it's kinda nice when someone points it out for any reason. LOL

Luba
June 30th, 2005, 12:33 PM
If you can just cover your nose and mouth with mask you should be ok if you wash your hands thoroughly :D

pags
June 30th, 2005, 12:38 PM
I have a gas mask I could use.

But it's okay as I'm practiced in the art of not breathing at all when dealing with poopies... It's all of these baby diaper poopies I have had to deal with... I should take up deep-sea diving competition when the kids are grown.

angie79
June 30th, 2005, 12:53 PM
well congrats on the pregnacy!!!!!

well I know that scooping kitty litter while pregnant could be dangerous

Luba
June 30th, 2005, 01:26 PM
That is a great last picture...
I'm starting to see maybe shetland / spitz instead of collie but we'll have to see when that little ones grows a little....the paws usually are a give away with size.

Flame thrower lmho
My uncle taught me how to make a bazooka (lol) want the info HAHAHAH
Just need some pop cans and a few little tid bits...my gosh we could have killed ourselves as kids.

Wear a mask DO NOT breath it in. In fact BEFORE you pick up the poop cover it up with something like newspaper and dont' touch with bare hands.

pags
June 30th, 2005, 01:32 PM
Luba! Pop can bazookas? You truly are lucky to have survived childhood. I'm so jealous though! :D

Seriously - I will make sure I wear a mask.. I have one of those for yard work that should do. And I do cover the ickies with layers and layers of paper and more layers.. and.. let's just say it isn't getting near my skin.

AND I agree I agree.. I told Dave last night I'm seeing Shetland in the pup I think. He's got dainty little paws. (Judge does.. not Dave.)

angie! Thanks for the congrats! I'm ready to have it over with now. :)

Prin
June 30th, 2005, 02:35 PM
But it's okay as I'm practiced in the art of not breathing at all when dealing with poopies...
Just don't forget to exhale forcefully before breathing in afterward-- bad smells have a way of getting trapped in nose hair even if you're not breathing (something I figured out after changing the garbages in the dog park). :)

pags
July 2nd, 2005, 11:45 PM
Hello hello hello everybody. Hope you're all enjoying your holiday weekend. :party:

I just wanted you to know that I am puzzled but pleasantly surprised with Judge's progress. He has shown 200% improvement since Wednesday morning and no sign of illness at all since about mid-day Thursday.

The runny nose has disappeared and there's no sign of congestion. He hasn't had even a smidgeon of fever since Wednesday night. His eyes are clear. His coat is looking better already. He eats like a large pony -- as a matter of fact I had been letting him self-feed a bit on his mid-day meal giving him plenty of time to eat as much as he wanted.. but I've started taking it up now because he was gorging himself. Little oinker. And I know that the subject of poopies can never be worn out so I must say -- they are positively normal today.

He's totally happy puppy now and it's SO nice to see it. He spent a lot of time romping around the yard today -- 'helped' my husband sweep the sidewalk... He even managed to wear out our toddler. Yay!

Since we were rejoicing here - I thought I would share. :)

Oh - and Prin that final tip about the exhaling? My husband has found that to come quite in handy when cleaning up the backyard. Thanks. :p

angie79
July 3rd, 2005, 11:39 AM
wow pags that is great news....
good thing the little oiker is eating and playing like a normal pup!!! building his stregth.... :thumbs up

Luba
July 3rd, 2005, 11:44 AM
Woo hooey yahoo puppy power :D
wtg Pags!!!!!! :grouphug:

Cactus Flower
July 3rd, 2005, 02:44 PM
Glad your darlin is feeling better, pags! And I didn't know you are pregnant, either, so congrats!

Regarding the humidifier- we wouldn't be able to survive without them in this desert- we actually have THREE in the house lol. Keeps us from looking like raisins and breathing out dust clouds ;) . And for cooling systems, we don't use air conditioners out here, we use swamp coolers, which not only cool really well, but blow humidity into the house. No problems with any of this causing bacteria.

But I have a friend in Slidell, and he says it's fairly humid in Mississippi, so it seems you have a natural humidifier called "nature" out there.

Luba's advice about the yogurt is great, and I've used it often. You can also buy active culture tablets from the pharmacy/health food store, and administer those. I personally take them after a round of antibiotics, when I feel.....the-reaction-that-some-women-have-to-antibiotics coming on *itch itch grumble grumble*. It knocks those beasty yeasties out immediately.

The ones I get have to be kept in the fridge. The bottle says: Schiff- digestive Support- Acidophilus- One Billion CFU- Digestive tract balance- Probio Tec. My pharmacist says anything under one billion won't be very effective. I gave them to Raj once when yogurt wasn't enough, and it worked well!

Prin
July 3rd, 2005, 06:54 PM
Ya, CF, I wrote in a thread a bit back that if you know there is a case of doggy gastroenteritis around, a doggy person I know said one Acidopilus a day helps protect them, but they have to be the fridge ones.

Pags, I am so glad your furry is doing better. I always feel that a good apetite is a great sign of things to come. :)

pags
July 4th, 2005, 01:07 AM
Thank you so much for celebrating with me - all of you! And for all of the great advice. I have learned so much and it's very nice to be able to come here and ask you all lots of questions when I'm mid-panic. Thank you thank you.

Angie: Thank you! Yay! It's so sweet of you to check on Judge's progress. I think I'll start calling you Auntie Angie and tell him all about you someday. LOL!

Luba: Our Judge's restoration of health is well worth one or two living room lamps, I think. :eek: Puppy power is right! Yogurt rocks! He's growing to quite like his oregano yogurt treat.

CF: Small world! And yeah I suppose it's fairly humid in Mississippi.. LOL It helps when breathing outdoors if you have developed a set of gills.... I can't stand it either so I keep the A/C on way too cold to dry out the air inside. :D
I spent a few weeks in NM several years ago and it was the easiest breathing I've ever had. OOOh how I crave that dry air!!!! AND.. I am quite grateful for the info on the Acidophilus and the *itch itch grumble grumble* -- I NEVER survive a round of antibiotics without that battle!!!

Prin: I'm with ya -- if the appetite is there things are usually looking up. So I grin really really big every time the Judge licks his bowl clean. :D

Thanks again everybody. :) I'll post an update after his follow-up vet visit!!

angie79
July 4th, 2005, 07:35 AM
:thumbs up I'm an aunt again..... wow
lol that makes me laugh every one that comes over and plays with coop is auntie or uncle ... makes me laugh it's like we are on the same wave legth :thumbs up