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Biting issue, please help

hornet
June 17th, 2005, 10:11 PM
Hello.

We just welcomed a new puppy in our house (Norfolk Terrier). She was born March 24, 2005 therefore 3 months next week. We are sort of concerned with her biting. We want to do everything right. An article that our Vet gave us stated to produce a high pitch yelp every time she bites our hand. It worked for two times but now she sort of associates it with more biting. We spoke to a local trainer yesterday and she told us to use a small spray bottle to spray her every time she bites us. (she said to tell her NO and that if it did not work to give her a squirt from the water bottle). What is your opinion on this subject. Will she grow out of this? Believe it or not my wife and I are so worried about this biting that we've been having trouble sleeping at night thinking that we are doing something wrong.

My second question is about soiling. I understand that she is young and she cannot control her bladder. We bring her out at night between 09:00 and 10:00pm and wake up at 05:00am to take her out. Every morning we find a pee in her crate. I suggested that we wake up several times during the night but a Vet technician told us not to do this. What is your opinion on this? Will she grow out of it. Another frustrating thing is when we take her outside during the day for about 30 minutes and she does nothing. Once she is inside she sniffs around and bam here comes a pee. We grab her as fast as we can and run outside yet its too late. We are just very concerned and we don't want to make any mistakes.

Please help.

Thank you.

tenderfoot
June 17th, 2005, 10:21 PM
Ahhh, new parents. There are going to be lots of frustrations along the way. Do not fret - much of it will pass with patience and consistency on your part.
We have a Norfolk too - they are great little terriers. Don't forget that they make a trilling sound which can sould like a growl but it is not so don't let it bother you.
Nipping is normal for all puppies. We need to teach her 'bite-inhibition'. Normally her mother would have taught this to her - but people usually take the pups away before she gets the chance.
If you act like a litter mate (high pitched squeal) then the puppy will treat you like a litter mate - if you act like a parent the puppy will treat you with respect like a parent. You teach them like the mother would NOT like the other puppies would.
Momma would correct the biting and then give her another chance to choose better. If after a few attempts to correct her don't deter her then she would correct her intensely one last time and then walk away.
We allow a puppy to put her mouth on our hands (because puppies relate to the world through their mouths) and teach her not to use pressure on us. We position our hand intentionally with a thumb in her mouth. If she presses down at all - we firmly say "quit" in a low tone and QUICKLY press down on the tongue with the thumb. Don't hold your finger down, just press and release. She will want to spit your thumb out of her mouth because it is no fun. Sometimes it takes 3-5 corrections before she knows you mean business. But then continue to play with her and keep correcting the bad choices and praising the good ones. It is fast and intense but not harmful. Continue to play with her in a gentle manner - she will learn that gentle playing is more fun and lasts longer.

Lucky Rescue
June 17th, 2005, 10:40 PM
Every morning we find a pee in her crate. I suggested that we wake up several times during the night but a Vet technician told us not to do this. What is your opinion on this? Will she grow out of it. Another frustrating thing is when we take her outside during the day for about 30 minutes and she does nothing. Once she is inside she sniffs around and bam here comes a pee. We grab her as fast as we can and run outside yet its too late

A vet tech told you not to take her out? Vet techs are not trainers. Obviously, you need to take her out during the night unless you want her to get used to soiling her crate and lying it it. This can create a very serious problem. Eventually she will be able to hold it all night, but right now she cannot.

When you take her out for 30 minutes, do you let her just run around? If so, take her out on leash and stand in one spot saying whatever you like that will be her signal to "go" - "Hurry up" or whatever. As soon as she pees or poops, praise her as though she won the Olympics, then let her have a play period.

Puppies are babies, and ALL puppies bite, and chew, and pee and cry and poop. Here is a link with lots of information on puppy stuff.

Puppy links (http://www.wonderpuppy.net/canwehelp/puppy.htm)

dogznfish
June 22nd, 2005, 11:22 AM
Tenderfoot, I really like your suggestion of correction for a nippy puppy. We've just adopted a pup from a shelter last week. He came home with us at 8 weeks old. I realize that pups need to explore and that they use their mouths. Both of us took the whole week off to help adjust to our two older dogs (and them to him) and start on crate training and housetraining.

I do have a question for you though. Emmett (our baby boy) mouths our hand just like all pups (and I'm going to introduce your method of correction today), what about when he's nipping at the back of the legs while walking? Right now I correct him with a low momma type growl (at least I hope it sounds like one) and then distract him with a toy to chew on but he is enamored with our jeans right now and sees them as an object to chase and nip at. I have been reading some puppy books that are older copyrights and I don't necessarily agree with their corrections, such as a scruff shake every time or grabbing his muzzle to hold shut until he yips.

I really appreciate the advice you and other contributors have given on these forums and while I don't post very often I am always reading.

Deanna

jessi76
June 22nd, 2005, 12:00 PM
everyone has given excellent advice, I just wanted to chime in about the nightime issue - you absolutely have to take your pup out during the night.

we have a pup, 3.5mths now, and we get up between 2-3am, or 4am on a very lucky day. But we make it very business-like. no lovey-dovey snuggle time, no play-time, none of that, I get up, take him out without saying a word, tell him GO PEE, praise him once, then it's back to bed. Our pup had the habit of getting up to pee, and then wanted to stay up and play - making it more business-like during the night made it much easier to get a little more sleep.

Dogastrophe
June 22nd, 2005, 01:11 PM
everyone has given excellent advice, I just wanted to chime in about the nightime issue - you absolutely have to take your pup out during the night.

we have a pup, 3.5mths now, and we get up between 2-3am, or 4am on a very lucky day. But we make it very business-like. no lovey-dovey snuggle time, no play-time, none of that, I get up, take him out without saying a word, tell him GO PEE, praise him once, then it's back to bed. Our pup had the habit of getting up to pee, and then wanted to stay up and play - making it more business-like during the night made it much easier to get a little more sleep.

When we adopted Jack (not housetrained, approx 5 - 6 mos old) we were up anywhere between 2 and 4am (sometimes twice), then at 6 (normal wake up time). He is now in the 7 mos range and can generally hold it from 10ish until 6ish. About the only time he needs to go in the middle of the night is when he either hears a noise and starts to bark or one of the other's hear a noise, start to bark, which gets him barking. He used to try to play when we'd bring him back in but found that if we carried him back to the b/r there was little opportunity for him to locate a toy.

db7
June 22nd, 2005, 01:42 PM
Have to Echo Jessi76 - if you are letting the dog out of the crate for a pee it should go right back in the crate afterwards.

You want that dog to know that the ONLY thing it gets to do when it asks to get out of the crate is pee.

Otherwise you will teach it that all it has to do is make some noise and you're opening the door like a concierge.

db7
June 22nd, 2005, 01:44 PM
Also, if you take her out and can't get her to go then put her back in the crate for a few minutes then back outside. Set her/him up for success. You will only have to capture the behaviour a few times and the dog will catch on.

tenderfoot
June 22nd, 2005, 03:05 PM
Hi Dogznfish - How old is this puppy now? - I am thinking 3-5 mo?. He is trying to get you to play - but not with good manners. Some herding breeds have an exagerated tendency to do this as they are eager to go after anything that moves past their nose and try to herd it - but all pups love a good tug on a pant leg.
You have a few choices - we want to think - pressure the bad behavior and reward the good choices. Depending on how young the pup is I would be inclined to set him up for learning. Put on the leash and invite him (with your body language) to go after your pants. Just as he is thinking about moving towards your pants - you give him a leash correction (not too strong or too soft - do whats right for this pup), and say 'leave it' in a very firm - momma tone. Then offer the pants to him again and do it again. Typically he should fall for the bait about 2-3 times and then catch on and refuse to go for the pants - then you softly whisper - "thank you, good job." Then you can introduce an new toy to play with. You are saying "make a better choice, little guy" - and you are helping to teach him what 'better' is.
If you aren't ready and he grabs your pants while you are sitting on the couch and he already has a grip on them - you can swiftly move your flat hand between his mouth and the pants as you say 'leave it'. You are not trying to hurt him but merely startle him. You need to have the energy in your voice that makes him think he just bit the king and he never wants to do that again!
If you are walking and the puppy catches you off guard and grabs your pants - then I would whip around and face him, say "drop it" in a angry, momma tone and stomp towards him until he releases the pants (should only be 1-3 steps). You are essentially startling him with your swift change in direction and correcting him with your voice AND putting him in his place by moving him backwards. Every step he takes away from you places him in a submissive postion and puts you back in charge.