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CKC: PEN's??

Lissa
June 16th, 2005, 01:18 PM
Hi guys,

Eventually, I would like Dodger to participate in agility, rally-o, flyball and obedience trials.

As some of you know, Dodger is not a purebed, I picked him up as a stray at 6 weeks old - so even though I think he's an American Foxhound (or a crossbred between an English Foxhound) I have nothing to back it up with! Our trainer has just informed me that I can get a PEN (Performance Event Number) from the CKC, so that Dodger can compete in CKC sanctioned trials - except for conformation. Is this true?

I've been looking over the eligibility requirements for a PEN and I'm confused about a couple of them:
- the dog must be properly identified with a CKC approved microchip (Dodger has an AVID microchip - is that acceptable?).
- the dog cannot be on the CKC miscellaneous class (what's that?)

Thanks for your help!

Writing4Fun
June 16th, 2005, 01:31 PM
I've never heard of this before. Our agility/obedience school has told us we can compete through the AAC (http://www.aac.ca/) with our mixed-breed dogs.

ETA: I just read through the CKC's PEN Application Form (http://www.ckc.ca/aspweb/http/forms/pdf/150-11-51.pdf) and under "Eligibility" it indicates that the dog has to be of a breed recognized by the CKC.

I think, as mixed-breed owners, the Agility Association of Canada is our only option.

Beaglemom
June 16th, 2005, 01:47 PM
Mixed breeds can compete in agility and flyball. Your dog doesn't need to be a registered purebred for those activities.

As for obedience trials, I'm not sure.

Lissa
June 16th, 2005, 01:48 PM
Thank you for replying so quickly!
American Foxhound's are suppose to be a recognized breed - have you read something different??
The PEN's are given so long as you can "prove" that the dog fits the breed standard - so basically if I take a couple of photos, get my vet to sign that they think he is an American Foxhound and comply with the other requirements I should be okay (according to my trainer). I just write "sire and dam unknown" as the reason why Dodger can't be registered normally.
One of my trainer's just got her PEN for her cattle dog so that's why she suggested it to me.
I had never heard of PEN's before last night either, I will contact the CKC soon, I just wanted to see if anybody had first hand knowldege about this.

Lissa
June 16th, 2005, 01:50 PM
I know that mixed breeds can compete in many trials (or fun matches) that I mentioned but if Dodger is able to compete uder CKC sanctioned trials (with a PEN), it opens so many more doors - so that we aren't as limited to when/where we can compete.

Beaglemom
June 16th, 2005, 02:03 PM
Have you tried contacting the CKC and asking them? I'm sure they will be more than happy to help you out. On their website they have some contact info, but unfortunately I couldn't find anything about trials/competitions for mixed/unregistered dogs.

http://www.ckc.ca/Default.aspx?tabid=1

It would be nice to know since there are many people who would love to compete with their dog but don't have registration papers.

Writing4Fun
June 16th, 2005, 02:04 PM
American Foxhound's are suppose to be a recognized breed - have you read something different
Sorry, no. I just read your first post saying he's not purebred, and presumed that meant he was a mutt (or "All Canadian", as the AAC refers to mixes :D ).

Good luck! :thumbs up

mona_b
June 17th, 2005, 03:12 PM
I just write "sire and dam unknown" as the reason why Dodger can't be registered normally.

This will not work.Certain CKC sanction matches require your dog to be CKC Registered.This means your dog needs to have CKC Registration papers.

Under the CKC Pedigree Act Law,it is ilegal to sell PB dogs without these papers.If your dog is not CKC Registered,then in the eyes of the CKC Pedigree Act,it is not a PB.I know it sounds complicated.It's like having a Birth Certificate.Your born,and you need one... :)

The Avid chip does meet the Canadian Standard.

As for the Miscellaneous Class is in regards to breeds some breeds that are not CKC Recognized..Example...Tibetan Mastiff,Neopolitan Mastiff,Iceland Dog and so on.

Lissa
June 17th, 2005, 04:52 PM
Thanks Mona b!

I'm gonna give it a shot and see how it goes...

It's good to know that the microchip is okay! And I realize now what a twit I am for not knowing what the miscellaneuous class was - how dumb!

Perhaps I have it wrong, Dodger may not gain all access to CKC santioned trials, I'm so confused. I'll let you all know if it works out; I'll recheck everything with my trainer next week. And I'll also contact the CKC beforehand and ask specific questions.

If it won't work than that sucks but at least I'll know exactly what is required in the future!

After re-reading everything, I think it will work, my fingers are crossed anyway - here's what it says, I'll copy and paste:

Performance Event Numbers
A Performance Event Number (PEN) allows an unregisterable dog of a CKC recognized breed to participate in competitive events that are appropriate for the breed. Those events are as follows: Obedience Trials, Tracking
Tests, Herding Trials, Draft Dog Tests, Agility, Lure Coursing, Earthdog Tests, Hunt Tests, Working Certificate Tests and Pointing Field Dog Tests.
Eligibility
In order for a dog to be eligible to receive a PEN, all of the following criteria must be met:
1. The dog must be of a breed recognized by CKC
2. The dog, for one reason or another, must not be eligible for CKC registration
3. The dog must be spayed or neutered
4. The dog must be properly identified with a CKC approved microchip (this requirement is not
necessary for ILP dogs).
5. The dog cannot be on the CKC Miscellaneous Class List (Miscellaneous Class dogs are not eligible to
participate in the PEN program)
6. In the case of a foreign born dog residing in the USA, in addition to the above, the dog must have been
issued an AKC ILP number.

Thanks again!

Safyre
June 18th, 2005, 07:11 PM
When reading I'm thinking to ymself ... I think PEN's are for purebred dogs that just cannot be registered for whatever reason (sire unknown, damn/sire not ckc registered, AKC registered dam/sire)
I would ask for clarification on the The dog, for one reason or another, must not be eligible for CKC registration part of that.

Writing4Fun
June 18th, 2005, 07:24 PM
:confused: I'm still a little unclear on how anyone can guarantee that a shelter dog is purebred. :confused: Not to knock a vet's opinion or anything, but I've had vets ask me if Phoebe's a Belgian Shepherd. :rolleyes:

db7
June 18th, 2005, 09:10 PM
They can't gaurantee it, I don't even think a DNA test would do it at this point in technology. Experienced judges would be the best people to confirm or reject a suspect applicant. As it stands, you have to send photos of the dog with the application. Vets don't have any training in breed conformation.

Lissa
June 20th, 2005, 10:36 AM
Sorry guys, I wrote a reply on the weekend and accidentally erased it and I didn't have time to write another one!

Vets don't have any training in breed conformation.

Exactly! I know it is terribly unfair - especially if you are all familiar with the thread "Now my dog is a pitbull and has to die?" - I am going to be getting my vet to sign off saying that my dog fits the breed standard for an American Foxhound. And with all of the nonsense that poor Lily and her Mum is going through because people are disaggreeing over her breed!

Anyway, my vet still thinks that Dodger is a Beagle so I may have a bit of a hard time. I do plan on contacting a friend who is a hunting outfitter who will hopefully be able to introduce me to a few of his foxhound hunter buddies - I hope to get statements from them will help. I may also try the Ottawa Valley Hunt Club vet and kennel master because I fully understand that most vet's have no clue when it comes to dog's (oustide of the medical aspect of course).

Peolpe who know about foxhounds all ask me if I am going to show Dodger (which I can't because he is fixed and obviously NO papers). I have no doubts that he was bred by a hunter to hunt because you just don't see these dogs outside of the hunt circuit. It was probably some BYB or unplanned breeding but what is interesting is that Dodger has his dewclaws - most hunters chop them right off when they are born - so obviously this hunter knew he wasn't going to keep Dodger.

Anyway, I'm not sure how soon I will get this PEN done because I don't want to make a vet appointment, just so my vet can sign a couple of pictures of Dodger. Dodger's annual is in October so I will probably wait until then and I will let you know if it works out because I'm sure it could be useful to others as well. In the mean time, I will contact the Ottawa Valley Hunt Club, the CKC and I will speak with my trainer about her PEN to gather as much info as I can.

Thanks again for your input and thoughs to consider!

Melissa

dogznfish
June 22nd, 2005, 12:06 PM
I'd also recommend checking into the Agility Association of Canada (www.aac.ca). The only requirement is that your dog has an id number and while you can train, you can't compete until 18 months old. There is no need to prove you have a purebred to participate and if you look on the website there are trials going on almost every weekend (depending on your region).

Deanna