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Ear hack Job!

happycats
June 8th, 2005, 10:26 PM
It says this boy is a brindle Mastiff, But I have never seen ears cut like this before! Poor boy :sad:

twinmommy
June 8th, 2005, 10:30 PM
OMG!! He looks like on of my kids stuffed bears!! LOL :D

Schwinn
June 8th, 2005, 10:30 PM
I didn't know they cropped thier ears. But I think the look on his face says it all. "Why?"

happycats
June 9th, 2005, 07:49 AM
I think it makes him look like one of those African wild dogs (painted dogs).
He is up for adoption at the THS :sad:

BMDLuver
June 9th, 2005, 07:56 AM
Poor guy, it was obviously a home job. If it wasn't, then the vet should have to go through life with ears like that as well. :sad:

BeagleMum
June 9th, 2005, 08:56 AM
Poor baby. That looks like it would have been painful. There is no need for things like that in this world.

Princesss04
June 9th, 2005, 10:23 AM
Looks like someone tried to do that by themself! That is awful! :mad: Poor guy!

Cactus Flower
June 9th, 2005, 11:33 AM
OH GEEZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've been staring at this "reply" page for five minutes now, and that's the only thing I can say. I'm at a loss.

JDG
June 9th, 2005, 01:52 PM
I've read tons of posts about ear cropping etc. . .

But I think he does look cute, even with the mutilation. . .

Daniac
June 9th, 2005, 02:11 PM
I think the dog is a Cao De Fila De Sao Miguel. If it is that is the way they "butcher" that breeds ears. :mad:

glasslass
June 9th, 2005, 07:04 PM
Makes me really embarrassed to a member of the human race sometimes. What some people do to animals - no excuse for the stupidity and cruelty.

iRONKNiGHT
June 9th, 2005, 07:30 PM
I think the dog is a Cao De Fila De Sao Miguel. If it is that is the way they "butcher" that breeds ears. :mad:
i think Daniac's right! often they mistake the breed of an animal on petfinder
http://www.rarebreed.com/breeders/filas-miguel/cao3.jpg
What do you guy's think? and maybe the main pic is a really bad one?

mona_b
June 9th, 2005, 09:02 PM
Yes Danic is right...

He's at the THS???....This same dog was at the Hamilton SPCA... :confused:

Joey.E.CockersMommy
June 9th, 2005, 09:15 PM
Well it looks like you guys beat me to it this is all I came up with,

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/caodefiladesaomiguel.htm

Schwinn
June 9th, 2005, 09:54 PM
They look like muscular hyenas! Why do they do the ears like that? Any ideas?

happycats
June 9th, 2005, 10:04 PM
Yes this dog is at the Toronto Humane Society, his name is Badger and he is 2 years 11 months old. It says he's been there since May 30/05.

I think Daniac is right, he sure looks like one of those!

mona_b
July 14th, 2005, 10:37 AM
Looks like Badger has a twin sister.

This is the dog I was talking about that was at the Hamilton SPCA.


She was adopted out in June,but looks like a return.... :sad:


Her name is Paris.She an altered 2 year old.The first time she was listed as a Cao De Fila.But now they just have her down as a Fila.

Poor Girl. :(

Daniac
July 14th, 2005, 08:38 PM
I wonder if they're from the same breeder.

I posted a message on a Molloser board about the original dog at the top of the thread. There is a man that posts on that board that lives in the Guelph area I think. He owns a few dogs of this breed but I'm not sure if he's a breeder.

He never responded to my message.

MIA
July 16th, 2005, 02:45 PM
These are serious dogs and shouldn't be adopted to just anyone!!! We saw them on Ultimate dogs recently and the breeder they had on the show said they are NOT for regular dog owners!!! I personally think they are stunning and would love one if I had some cattle to work!!! They are aggressive by nature and are a serious guard dog! I am surprised a shelter would even try to adopt them out, this is the type of dog one should have to have a permit for!!!!

Daniac
July 16th, 2005, 07:52 PM
That's the same guy that posts on the molloser board, I think his name is Paul.

I remember meeting a guy with a dane puppy at the Hamilton Dog park last fall and he was telling me about a neighbour of his that had a bunch of these dogs and how terrifying they were. Typical idiot owner that let's them run wild and doesn't control them at all. I wouldn't be surprised if these dogs aren't coming from him/her.

LL1
July 16th, 2005, 09:36 PM
A permit for this breed?No,I dont agree with that at all.And why wouldnt a shelter adopt them out?This is what fuels BSL.

MIA
July 17th, 2005, 12:13 AM
The permit comment was somewhat tongue and cheek BUT this is a serious dog that can do serious harm and is NATURALLY AGGRESSIVE, as some one who's worked in a shelter I can honestly say an appropriate home for this breed is going to be hard to find. I am 100% anti BSL BUT serious about responsible dog ownership, and you will find few responsible people who want to own these breeds for the right reasons. Some breeds should NOT be owned by laymen, this is one of them.

Spurby
July 17th, 2005, 12:23 AM
I have personally met this breed and it's breeder at a dog show a couple of years ago, didn't see any reason why a permit would be needed :p This dog was friendly to me and everyone else there, certainly NOT naturally aggressive! Where is that coming from? To me, naturally aggressive would mean "unsound", is that what you mean? this is a working breed yes, and should be in experienced hands, just like many other breeds out there.

LL1
July 17th, 2005, 12:23 AM
I disagree MIA.There are all kinds of breeds that have various traits,and there is good and bad in every breed.If the dog is adoptable,I see no reason to not adopt the dog out to a proper home.

MIA
July 17th, 2005, 01:23 AM
It comes from a breeder, whom wouldn't just sell these dogs to anyone. It's also listed on many of the breed information on sites that I have read as after seeing the dog on Ultimate dogs I did some research. There was also a dog trainer who commented that really these dogs should ONLY be owned by an expert handler.

As I have already stated, this is NOT a dog for laymen, nor would it be easily adoptable in my opinion as there aren't line ups of responsible people for such dogs. Not recognizing what a dog is capable of is very dangerous IMO.

Sorry I take breed traits very seriously and I took it seriously when I owned my first dog, a pitbull, I also took it serious when I owned a GSD, I also now take it serious with my Doberman, not everyone can simply own such breeds, nor should they. Ignorance is what kills people and creates BSL.

http://www.moloss.com/001/breed/c/c009/

"The Co de Fila is intelligent and quick to learn, and with its aggressiveness it is an excellent watch dog."

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/caodefiladesaomiguel.htm

"The Cao de fila de Sao Miguel is a rustic and aggressive animal, able of remaining outdoors during the entire year guarding the herds and the tools used in agriculture."

"These dogs are great at working cattle. They can also be very protective."

Spurby
July 17th, 2005, 02:35 AM
I don't understand MIA what you are trying to say. I myself take breed traits seriously, but that doesn't mean that any one breed shouldn't be adopted out by a shelter, or say a rescue. You say you are against BSL, but you are certainly sounding very breed specific here.

Auntie Venom
July 17th, 2005, 02:40 AM
The Cao de fila de Sao Miguel is a serious dogs and are not for the faint at heart. Yes the show dog that was met was nice, as the owner is obviously an educated owner, and has trained the dog that way. I have met lots of show dogs that are very pleasant, but to see that same dog at home in action, it is a totally different scene.

There can be exceptions to the breed traits, but common sense should tell you this breed, much like other select breeds, should only be owned by educated, serious owners.

From the posts I have read, I don't see Mia being for BSL. To me it sounds like Mia is one who does not take these power breeds lightly, which is the way it should be. It is those who takes the potential power of these breeds lightly, that makes responsible owners look bad.

:pawprint: JMO

Spurby
July 17th, 2005, 02:51 AM
Hmm, yes you are somewhat correct Auntie Venom. And FYI, the dog i met was a "working dog" he wasn't in any of the shows there. The breeder i met and dog was the one on that show MIA talks about, he is based in Ontario.

What you said can apply to the vast majority of breeds out there, including the breed i own and love, so i do not understand what the difference is with this breed and all the others.

Spurby
July 17th, 2005, 02:57 AM
Interesting name BTW Auntie Venom :)

Auntie Venom
July 17th, 2005, 03:02 AM
What you said can apply to the vast majority of breeds out there, including the breed i own and love, so i do not understand what the difference is with this breed and all the others.


I believe in this instance it's that the breed Cao de fila de Sao Miguel is the one of topic. I too own a 'power breed', and had this thread started with pictures of my beloved breed, points would be made specific to my breed. In this thread we could replace the Cao de fila de Sao Miguel with a lot of other breed names. So no I don't see it as an attack on this particular breed, but an informed comment on the ownership of this and many other power breeds.

Spurby, I think you were very lucky to meet such an ambassador of this breed. We need more owners like the one you were fortunate to meet out there.

:pawprint:

PS - thank you for the comment on my name :queen:

Spurby
July 17th, 2005, 03:08 AM
Are you trying to say if i met this breed owned by someone else less responsible it would be different? Again, same story with any breed out there.

Does your "power breed" have "aggressiveness" what exactly does that mean anyway IYO?

Auntie Venom
July 17th, 2005, 03:43 AM
A lot of breeds have been bred away from their original purpose, and do well as family pets. But there are many variables. In this case the breed is still very stong in the traits it has been bred for. If this working dog is not given the proper outlets and becomes bored, it could mean trouble. If the Cao de fila de Sao Miguel is adopted by someone who has no knowledge of this breed and adopts the dog for it's looks like it's teddy bear ears, or someone who wants a mean dog to toughen their own image, unfortunately there is more possibility that something could go wrong. However, this is the case with any breed. I have seen many herding breeds nip moving objects out of boredom. My 'power breed' was bred to capture poachers, and kill the poachers dog(s) which they had bred to protect them. Yet my dog is not agressive, this is not to say I am going to let my dog loose at an off leash park.

:pawprint:

Spurby
July 17th, 2005, 03:52 AM
What you say makes sense with many many breeds, the APBT and is close relation the AST have been bred away from the many traits it was bred for ie: bull baiting and dog fighting, yet those that remain close to this part of their history are still safe to adopt out to families as long as they are respnsible and aware of the breeds traits. There are many working breeds active today that are family members, police dogs are one i think of.

Auntie Venom
July 17th, 2005, 04:05 AM
The dog that started this thread is stunning looking, (other than the mutilated ears). I hope this dog is adopted by owners who, as you aptly put, "are responsible and aware of the breeds traits." :)

:pawprint:

LL1
July 17th, 2005, 02:06 PM
What's a power breed?

MIA
July 17th, 2005, 02:18 PM
Lots of dogs have been bred down so to speak, GSD's, Dobermans in North America being one of them and I know many AST breeders are taking temperment more seriously but there are breeds like the Cao de fila de Sao Miguel hasn't been changed much at all and is a very powerful dog who will naturally guard it's property and family. The pit bull sadly has been ruined by bad breeding and sadly went the wrong way, hopefully it can improve before they are banned world wide, but you just don't find many responsible pit breeders who truly want to improve the breed.

There are a few other breeds I don't personally think should be owned by just anyone who happens to know breed traits.

I guess I simply take dogs very seriously, I worked very hard with my Doberman who was rank when I adopted her, I take owning her very seriously, maybe I take dog ownership too seriously but I NEVER want to be the person who owned a dog that hurt someone else. I work with rescue dogs and have worked in shelters and have seen the result of inexperienced dog owners adopting dogs that are too much for them, it's a disaster waiting to happen.

Thanks Auntie Venom as I think you understand what I am trying to say.

Lucky Rescue
July 17th, 2005, 02:22 PM
To me those dogs look like Cane Corsos, and thier ears are definitely a home hack job.

Filas are more hound-y in appearance, they have a quality known as "ojeriza" which roughly translates into "hatred of strangers." This makes them perfect for protecting stock on remote plantations.

This is a Fila
http://dogs-puppies.dogs-central.com/fila-brasileiro-puppy/images/fila.jpeg

LL1
July 17th, 2005, 02:24 PM
What other breeds do you think owners should have permits for and shelters should not adopt out?
There are a few other breeds I don't personally think should be owned by just anyone who happens to know breed traits.

I work with rescue dogs and have worked in shelters and have seen the result of inexperienced dog owners adopting dogs that are too much for them, it's a disaster waiting to happen.

twodogsandacat
July 17th, 2005, 03:38 PM
To me those dogs look like Cane Corsos, and thier ears are definitely a home hack job.

Filas are more hound-y in appearance, they have a quality known as "ojeriza" which roughly translates into "hatred of strangers." This makes them perfect for protecting stock on remote plantations.

This is a Fila
http://dogs-puppies.dogs-central.com/fila-brasileiro-puppy/images/fila.jpeg

Correct that is a Fila - a Fila Brasileiro while the dog that started this thread does look like a Co de Fila de So Miguel and I am amazed that somebody spotted that. I would of went with Cane Corsos also if pictures and links weren't provided. Although Co de Fila de So Miguel explains the look and the ears it should be noted that the ears are not naturally that way but certainly are cut rounded.

When researching BSL I stumbled across the Fila Brasileiro and as others have posted in the past...these dogs NEED an owner who understands what they are getting. The one site indicated that a Fila will attack a stranger - not might attack - will attack for exactly the reason you stated "ojeriza" . This came up when somebody in a past posted that they found what appeared to be a Fila Brasileiro after a hurricane and was 'cautioned' to learn about the dog that she now had possession of.

Now here is another dog with the word Fila in its name, the Co de Fila de So Miguel. So the question I had was what does Fila mean? From ancient Portuguese the word Fila means "TO HOLD". I dont know but these dogs may not be as full of "ojeriza" as the Fila Brasileiro but apparently they were meant to hold something at some point in time.

I am 100% not a BSL supporter but I do agree with statements that prospective owners need to know what they are adopting and shelters should try to make good matches. Even so some may still ignore good advice. I once stood in a Humane Society as the employee tried to convince a woman with three young kids that the (not all) Golden Retriever she wanted to adopt was NOT good with children and tried to get her to look at some of the other dogs.

There is no reason these dogs can't be matched but the point I think some are trying to make is you need to know what you are getting into. Selecting a dog simply for teddy bear looks might have you waking up one night with a bear.

Lucky Rescue
July 17th, 2005, 04:23 PM
The one site indicated that a Fila will attack a stranger - not might attack - will attack for exactly the reason you stated "ojeriza"

Yes. Filas cannot be socialized to accept strangers, and WILL attack them - kids included. This trait is genetic and was come by with selective breeding to make them this way for a reason. They are loyal, very tolerant and gentle with their own families.

For this reason, they should not be kept in urban areas. To do so is extremely dangerous unless someone can keep them locked up at all times. They are perfectly suited for the job they were bred for - to guard and protect against any and all intruders in places where they will have little or no contact with any humans other than family.

They cannot even be touched by judges at dog shows and this is accepted since it's part of the breed standard.

LL1
July 17th, 2005, 04:29 PM
If they were attacking kennel workers,dog walkers,vets and strangers at a shelter,they would be euthanized and not up for adoption.

twodogsandacat
July 17th, 2005, 04:48 PM
But these are two different types of Filas. Are they both AS protective as each other? One seems to be a mastiff- houndy type of dog and the other more of a herder.

Also the previous post where the Fila was 'found' after the hurricane suggested the dog was fine with strangers and that is why the poster was 'cautioned' about the breed. That would indicate that some can be handled but of course how often. I can run blindly across the road and may get away with it once, twice, three times.....

doggirl
July 17th, 2005, 05:05 PM
Yes. Filas cannot be socialized to accept strangers, and WILL attack them - kids included.

For this reason, they should not be kept in urban areas.

Some Filas will attack strangers but not all will, this is a misconception. I've met Filas, I was a stranger, and I have not been attacked by any of them.

For the record what you are saying is breed discriminatory. A complete idiot self-proclaimed "canine aggression expert" in Ontario says something similar - he supports BSL saying pit bulls shouldn't be allowed in the city. I really think that's the wrong approach. It doesn't matter at all whether they are urban, rural, or suburban. The serious dog bites happen in rural areas, probably proportionally more than in the inner city. What makes the difference is whether or not the handler is educated, responsible, and sensible enough to own the dog or breed or not, regardless of where they live. This is a much more sensible approach to problems with "aggressive" dogs, not disallowing the breed but disallowing any unprepared people from owning any dog.

I don't understand how people say a dog or a breed is "aggressive". That's like saying a dog or breed is "nice". What do you mean nice? In what circumstances? Under what conditions? Are pit bulls or rottweilers "aggressive" or "nice"? Can't they be both at different times? And what exactly do you mean by "aggressive" or "nice" - it's a very general term. "Aggressiveness" is a very dynamic state/behavior.

doggirl
July 17th, 2005, 05:06 PM
A complete idiot self-proclaimed "canine aggression expert" in Ontario says something similar.

Just for the record I'm not calling you an idiot - I'm calling that guy one.

MIA
July 17th, 2005, 06:27 PM
What other breeds do you think owners should have permits for and shelters should not adopt out?

First off I NEVER said certain dogs shouldn't be adopted out, I said I was surprised a shelter would try to adopt these dogs out as the dilemma with adopting out some breeds is there are few appropriate homes for them. My permit comment for the second time was tongue and cheek BUT that being said if I had to have a permit to own my Doberman so be it, I wouldn't mind because I am a responsible dog owner and I take great pride in the work I put into my dogs. Thankfully Doberman breeders have tamed down the temperment of these dogs as they were the pits of the 80's where I lived.

You are trying to get me to say I am for BSL I am NOT I am for responsible, educated dog ownership and I don't think that your average joe should own dogs such as the Miguel and other potentially dangerous dogs.

Dogs are being banned and feared becuase some people think it's ok for just anyone to own such dogs, it's not ok and it's getting scary, we've had too many attacks. The other part of the problem is bad breeding. If anything I would love to see some breeding regulations to stop irresponsible breeding as that's the root of the problem, anyone can breed, anyone can sell dogs and anyone can ruin them.

What makes the difference is whether or not the handler is educated, responsible, and sensible enough to own the dog or breed or not, regardless of where they live.

This is the other problem, most people are simply "dog owners", not handlers or trainers, I have tons of friends who are great owners and know nothing about training or behaviour, would you want one of them owning a Miguel or a Fila? I wouldn't. I have a friend who just bought a Dogo and I fear for those around him, as I know he doesn't take his dog seriously!

I don't understand how people say a dog or a breed is "aggressive". That's like saying a dog or breed is "nice". What do you mean nice? In what circumstances? Under what conditions? Are pit bulls or rottweilers "aggressive" or "nice"? Can't they be both at different times? And what exactly do you mean by "aggressive" or "nice" - it's a very general term. "Aggressiveness" is a very dynamic state/behavior.

I think the problem here is people hear the word aggressive and think horrid things, my Doberman is naturally 'aggressive' towards strangers, she doesn't trust them and is bred to be so. She will not let anyone in my house and she will not allow a stranger to approach me aggressively and she is not trained for this, she was bred to be this way. Yes dogs can be nice, and aggressive, most people like to use the word protective, which in the sense is the same as aggression as the dog will behave aggressively when it's being "protective".

doggirl
July 17th, 2005, 07:29 PM
This is the other problem, most people are simply "dog owners", not handlers or trainers, I have tons of friends who are great owners and know nothing about training or behaviour, would you want one of them owning a Miguel or a Fila?

If they know nothing about training or behavior I don't think they should have a dog - ANY dog - and I don't see how they could be great owners...JMO. Maybe loving owners but that doesn't equate to great owners. IME virtually all negative dog incidents are a result of poor handling, poor husbandry, human error, poor decision-making, poor judgement, etc. Legislation? Maybe so, but not on the dogs, on the people who want to own them.

LL1
July 17th, 2005, 07:43 PM
What breeds then would you be surprised that shelters adopt out?Basing it on breed and not behavior does reek of BSL mindset.Should they not adopt out Pits,Dobes,GSDs,Neos and Rotts as well?If they should adopt them out,what is the difference?Also calling some breeds 'potentially dangerous' reeks of BSL mindset,all dogs with teeth are 'potentially dangerous'.

I wouldnt call that "naturally aggressive".Aggressive towards someone threatening you is different than aggresive toward all strangers,and the latter would not be correct for the breed.
First off I NEVER said certain dogs shouldn't be adopted out, I said I was surprised a shelter would try to adopt these dogs out as the dilemma with adopting out some breeds is there are few appropriate homes for them.
You are trying to get me to say I am for BSL I am NOT I am for responsible, educated dog ownership and I don't think that your average joe should own dogs such as the Miguel and other potentially dangerous dogs.

I think the problem here is people hear the word aggressive and think horrid things, my Doberman is naturally 'aggressive' towards strangers, she doesn't trust them and is bred to be so. She will not let anyone in my house and she will not allow a stranger to approach me aggressively and she is not trained for this, she was bred to be this way. Yes dogs can be nice, and aggressive, most people like to use the word protective, which in the sense is the same as aggression as the dog will behave aggressively when it's being "protective".

MIA
July 17th, 2005, 08:13 PM
LL1 I have no idea who you are or what point you are trying to make, I have said my peace I have not said adoptions should be based on breed but yes the breed should be seriously taken into consideration, as all breeds have different genetic traits. When I went to adopt my Doberman I knew exactly what I was getting into and was qualified to do so, not everyone should have one or a powerful dog, period. I have worked in a shelter and can honestly say there were TONS of people I would not have adopted a powerful breed to, even if the dog assessed perfectly, and they said they read up on the breed, and that is being responsible. All breeds are NOT created equally, nor are the humans who own them or want to own them.

Admitting that some breeds are more potentially dangerous than others IS SIMPLY THE TRUTH and to deny it is extremely ignorant and dangerous.

LL1
July 17th, 2005, 09:17 PM
I am not extremely ignorant and dangerous,I asked you some questions.No need to attack me.

White Wolf
July 17th, 2005, 09:39 PM
This website does not encourage breed stereotyping. All dogs can be good dogs. Thread closed.

Dragonfly
July 17th, 2005, 09:40 PM
I was going to let this go with a warning, but I think we will just err on the side of caution and lock this now.