Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

RCMP wait times

Britishvixen21
June 7th, 2005, 11:26 AM
Sorry to be a pain the rear end and keep posting in here with all my life problems. but i know that you are people that get things done!

As you know I am applying for permanent residency in Canada so that I can live her forever and ever and get the little luxuries in life like oh i dont know healthcare!!! However I am having to wait 5 MONTHS!!! for a police clearance from RCMP! and my whole process with immigration who are known for there lengthy wait times only takes 4!!!, So I wanted to show you all a letter I wrote to 50 MP's in Ontario and to Mr. (i have not really got my dirty fingers in every dirty pie in Canada) Martin. I have yet to recieve a response from Anyone, oh apart from one MP that said i was not her constituent not her problem. If any of you feel like you would like to bug an MP in your area please feel free to do so on behalf of all animal loving immigrants.

This is not only affecting Immigrants but people who would like to work with Children, (now i dont know if there having to wait 5 months to start a job, or are being allowed to work without prior checks) potential EMS workers, and so on and so forth.
You can find your MP at the link below, if you scroll down the webpage there is an option to search via postcode.

These are good names to keep handy for the pit bull petition too!

http://www.parl.gc.ca/common/SenatorsMembers_house.asp?Language=E&Parl=37&Ses=2&Sect=hoccur

Thanks again and happy reading.

Dear Minister

I write to you today as a constituent of your area in hope that you may be able to help us. We are a young couple, who are about to be married. And we are currently applying for permanent residency for me in Canada. I am originally from the United Kingdom.

We have duly executed all the required forms for Citizenship and Immigration Canada and have also abided by the rules of me not being able to work or study, which has been quite a stretch.

We are willing to wait the anticipated 6 months for the processing of our case and have spent many months and much financial and emotional time preparing a case.

However I was both amazed and disgusted to read today that we are going to have to wait an additional 120 days for an RCMP Canadian Criminal Record Check.

How is it that the RCMP has become so backlogged with applications for this service?
It estimated on there website www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca that they receive 15,000 applications for a Criminal Record Check per month. Now if you calculate that the RCMP has maybe four full time employees working on these applications (any less would be utterly ridiculous) taking off weekends and public holidays they should each be able to process 14 applications per day for a next day service. 7 applications per day for a 2-day service, and only 3.5 per day for a 4-day service.

The Canadian Passport office has over 2.5 Million applications per year and the estimated processing time is around 10 working days. That is nearly 10,000 applications processed every day. They also offer express and expedited services.

I understand that homeland security is a huge issue in Canada, however security for passport issuance is just as important as a criminal record check.

I would dutifully ask you as my MP, and as the partner of a tax paying Canadian Citizen for you to be able to find out why this department is in such disarray and ask where our tax dollars are going?

To have to wait over 120 days for a criminal clearance when we have already waited months to file our immigration case and now await a four or five-month wait for an outcome is hard enough. Without having to wait an additional 5 months for one piece of paper to complete my application.

If you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact us via email, or at the above address.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your time in this matter and I look forward to your reply.

Kind Regards

raingirl
June 7th, 2005, 12:23 PM
Sorry..had to respond to this. I had a friend in RCMP explain to me. They get 15000 each month, not each year first of all...so you might want to fix that typo. And that is just for the criminal record check. This office is responsible for ALL fingerprint checks across canada for any purpose...so they in effect get close to 500,000 each month, like criminal checks, for court purposes, for international checks, etc. And with all the privacy laws currently in effect, and the US hounding the RCMP constantly for criminal checks on immigrants going from canada to the US (homeland security checks) they are SWAMPED.

On a side note, you could have applied for the check while back in england as it can be done any time and doesn't have to be done from canada. My friend is marrying a guy from Scotland in August. He already applied for his criminal check when he was last here visiting so it will be ready when they move here.

Lizzie
June 7th, 2005, 01:09 PM
Another point of clarification is that the MP who wrote you about not being her consituent is right. Each Member is obligated to attend to the needs and interests of the individuals living in their own constituency. I would be very suprised if another MP could or would help you.

My advice would be to contact the local constituency office in your area. They are there to act on your behalf and often assist with immigration cases. In this instance, I would contact your local MP not your MPP as the provincial members aren't involved with immigration.

Ontario MPP's will just ignore your letter or tell you the same thing as the one respondent. It's not their jurisdiction.

Britishvixen21
June 7th, 2005, 02:16 PM
Ive changed it to a month I didnt see that LOL, oops. to answer some of your questions, If i had known it was going to take five months i would have certainly applied for it a long time ago. I guess in my own stupidity and ignorance I didnt believe it would take that long (The one from England took 10 days to come all the way to Canada from England) I understand that they have a busy job to do, however why did someone from top brass not see that it was getting a little backlogged and take on more staff!! I know this goes all the way to the top of goverment and the funding that they are allocated but the bearocratic BS in this country is really starting to get me down. its wait wait wait for everything. If i wait for everything I need il be bloody dead by the time i get it.
I have had to wait a year to file my case because were only common law after a year, ive had to wait to have the money to file (have spent $1000 already and havent even filed yet, i.e. medicals, special photos, police clearances etc etc) I have spilled blood sweat and tears over this process, I have no healthcare benefits if i get sick i have to pay $100 just to see the doctor! and dont even get me started on the $3000 bill i had for emergency surgery. and now im finally ready im finally eligible, i finally have everything ready to go, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, Il be able to work where I want and go to school and be part of a community in everysense, I could have all those things before christmas. and now, now I find out i have to wait 5 f****** months for this one stupid peice of paper because the canadian goverment is tight fisted and wont hire anymore staff!!!!! you got to be kidding me.
I dont even particularly want to stay anymore and the only reason i do is for my hb!
As for the MP's I thought it may help to send it out to the masses. but there just as lazy as the rest of them. youd think with a shaky minority goverment they would tripping over themselves for votes. My MP hasnt even sent me a confirmation of recipe for the bloody email!!!
So you can see why im a little frustrated. this has been going on for nearly two years now, of collecting evidence, and writing to people for different things. its bearocratic BS and I this was the straw that has broken the camels back.
Sorry for the rant, im just so frustrated at this!

raingirl
June 7th, 2005, 02:24 PM
I don't blame you for being frusterated! I only get to speak to my best friend twice a year because she lives in the UK now, and doesn't have access to email and only has a cell she doesn't want to make long distance calls on. She is marrying a guy from Glasgow here in Canada in August. However, they decided not to move here until she can find a job back here, because he won't be able to work when he comes here. On top of all that, she is pregnant, and is having the baby there, and they have no $$ and no support from any relatives. I really feel sorry for her. It feels like forever until she will come back. Probably not until at least next summer. She is applying for jobs online in Canada from the UK hoping to find something for the 2006/2007 school year (they are both teachers in the UK). She thinks it's unfair that she can work there but he can't work here as well.

Good luck with your paperwork either way!

happycats
June 7th, 2005, 02:26 PM
Ive changed it to a month I didnt see that LOL, oops. to answer some of your questions, If i had known it was going to take five months i would have certainly applied for it a long time ago. I guess in my own stupidity and ignorance I didnt believe it would take that long (The one from England took 10 days to come all the way to Canada from England) I understand that they have a busy job to do, however why did someone from top brass not see that it was getting a little backlogged and take on more staff!! I know this goes all the way to the top of goverment and the funding that they are allocated but the bearocratic BS in this country is really starting to get me down. its wait wait wait for everything. If i wait for everything I need il be bloody dead by the time i get it.
I have had to wait a year to file my case because were only common law after a year, ive had to wait to have the money to file (have spent $1000 already and havent even filed yet, i.e. medicals, special photos, police clearances etc etc) I have spilled blood sweat and tears over this process, I have no healthcare benefits if i get sick i have to pay $100 just to see the doctor! and dont even get me started on the $3000 bill i had for emergency surgery. and now im finally ready im finally eligible, i finally have everything ready to go, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, Il be able to work where I want and go to school and be part of a community in everysense, I could have all those things before christmas. and now, now I find out i have to wait 5 f****** months for this one stupid peice of paper because the canadian goverment is tight fisted and wont hire anymore staff!!!!! you got to be kidding me.
I dont even particularly want to stay anymore and the only reason i do is for my hb!
As for the MP's I thought it may help to send it out to the masses. but there just as lazy as the rest of them. youd think with a shaky minority goverment they would tripping over themselves for votes. My MP hasnt even sent me a confirmation of recipe for the bloody email!!!
So you can see why im a little frustrated. this has been going on for nearly two years now, of collecting evidence, and writing to people for different things. its bearocratic BS and I this was the straw that has broken the camels back.
Sorry for the rant, im just so frustrated at this!


Uh hum, don't flame me for this, BUT I am a very proud citizen of this country, and frankly am insulted by your comments about my country my MP's and my government!!!
If you don't like the way we do things here, maybe you should leave!!
I am getting tired of so many (not all) people coming to this country demanding that we bend over backwards, and jump through hoops for them, and demanding that this country "owes" them something!!
Sorry for the rant, but I'm just getting tired of people who don't appreciate this country for allowing them to come and live, and be free here :mad:

Britishvixen21
June 7th, 2005, 02:42 PM
Ok here we go, firstly your goverment right now is riddled in scandal and full of lazy MP's! you cant tell me that you think your goverment is great. people are having to wait 5 months to start jobs because of RCMP wait times. People are having to wait 1 full bloody year for a birth certificate! Toronto is riddled with homelessness and violence! The RCMP is being hounded by the US for security checks, staff are underpaid and overworked, meanwhile Jean Chretian, Paul Martin and a scurry of advertising agencys are laying back and lighting a cigar with a $20 bill!
Im not demanding that anyone bend over backwards for me i just want to be a good old tax paying citizen like the rest of you, and not have to wait till im 85 and incontinent to do it!
Id love to live here and be free to work hard, pay my taxes, (as an insert here me and any other immigrant comming into this country has to sign to say that they will not claim from the state in times of need) in this country and give BACK to the economy if they would only get off there fat, rich asses and put my f****** paperwork through!!!
Im a very proud Canadian I love the people of this country (well most of them) but the barriers that are being put up against me are incredible difficult I always say to people like you that you should walk a mile in an immigrants shoes then moan about us draining YOUR country!!
I would also like to point out Immigrants to Canada (immigrants no refugees) are required by the canadian goverment to be hardworking, well off, educated with at least a degree, bilingual, and business orientated. and then they arrive and are kept working in Mcdonalds flipping burger by biggots like yourself.
You are a racist and i am offended by your comments!

JDG
June 7th, 2005, 02:45 PM
Immigration to any country is hard, especially after 9/11

I moved to England in 2002, and let me tell you - England is one tough cookie herself! haha!

The first visa I got, I got to the immigration office at 6:25am and when I left after being rejected the first time it was 8:30pm!!

After I got my visa, I needed to get my National Insurance Card. My interview was 4 hours long - and they even asked me things like what colour are my husbands eyes, how does he like his coffee, one or two pillows. It was crazy!

Colin got offered a great job in Montreal so we decided to move back to Canada - but we were already planning on me getting my citizenship (he has dual citizenship already) and the paperchase involved was nuts. . . it was very daunting!

During my stay in England I was quite often made to feel like a second class citizen. I couldn't get a credit card, and when I was approved my limit was less than $500 Canadian. All cheques coming into my account were held for 15 working days (yes! thats WORKING days - that is over 3 weeks, almost a month if there were holidays). I was never eligable for public NHS health care. I couldn't get a loan, buy a car myself or play the lottery. . . .hahah

Keep in mind that once I started to work Colin and I collectivly made over 100,000 GBP per year. That is about $250,000! Not bad a couple of 20 somethings!!

I understand your frustration. But understand Canada needs to protect the people already citizens. Remember your home country does the exact same thing.

But that being said I loved living in England - and would go back if the opportunity was there! :party: ;) :thumbs up

happycats
June 7th, 2005, 02:48 PM
Im a very proud Canadian I love the people of this country (well most of them) but the barriers that are being put up against me are incredible difficult I always say to people like you that you should walk a mile in an immigrants shoes then moan about us draining YOUR country!!


People like me?? My parents are immigrants, (Canadian Citizens) who are very greatfull to this country for allowing them to come here, work and raise a family!!
They never whined or complained or bad mouthed the very country who allowed them entry!!!
So maybe instead of bi**ching and complaining, smile :) and be happy that this country even allowed you entry!!

Britishvixen21
June 7th, 2005, 02:49 PM
How long ago was that JDG, I just had a freind whos wife came from Brazil and didnt have that trouble?
I tottally agree that England is tough too, however the WORLD should make exceptions to wifes and husbands. With technology making the world such a small place now it needs reform. Trouble is there are always scammers out there to make it harder for the genuine ones!

JDG
June 7th, 2005, 02:51 PM
guys. .

breath a bit. Lets put the claws back in. . . .

. . . this was a good debate, but its going downhill fast. . .



(Colin was in England from 1999-2005, I was there from 2002-2005. . . Colin has dual citizenship aswell, his father is Irish.)

Britishvixen21
June 7th, 2005, 02:59 PM
I am very lucky and grateful that i am being allowed in. (all though thats waining fast) however back in the day when your parents immigrated there was not the red tape that there is now a days.
Im ranting in general that goverments and goverment agencys dont talk to one another and therefore this idiocy is born.
I didnt mean to go off at you, and for that I will be a better person and apologise to you - Im sorry. I am so frustrated at this, all i want to be able to do is be with the man i love, work, provide for myself, and for the less unfortunate and lead a good fullfilling life. If you had waited 2 years for that simple human right your blood would be ready to boil too!

Britishvixen21
June 7th, 2005, 03:08 PM
FYI - Im not bitching and whining and trying to be pro active and find a solution to the problem, my first thread was asking people to contact there MP's to ask why this is happening.

Bearsmom
June 7th, 2005, 03:11 PM
Id love to live here and be free to work hard, pay my taxes, (as an insert here me and any other immigrant comming into this country has to sign to say that they will not claim from the state in times of need) !

Sorry to say it, vixen, BUT you are facing a hard time because you're trying to do it HONESTLY.

There are more than a HUGE share of illegal immigrants coming to Canada, making more $ from welfare than I ever will see in my lifetime.

I have a friend who's a single mom of 5. Her father owns her house, makes all the payments (while she lives rent free), leases her minivan in his name, she's perpetually crying the blues about how tough her life is, yet she's in the bars every Friday and Saturday nights, picking up a different man every night. She gets $3000 a month from welfare, tax free, no deductions. She also gets support cheques for the kids from her many fathers of her babies, but she doesn't claim that as income. She gets her hair and nails done every other day. I on the other hand make $70 000 per year, once they're done dinging me with every possible tax/pension/insurance in existence, I take home about $60 000.
So I gotta ask, where's the motivation to work?

I have dual citizenship, and have to say I'd much rather live in Canada than anywhere else. It's a matter of choice, but very frustrating to see people who have so obviously figured out how to milk the system live pretty nicely for doing absolutely f*** all.

I often wonder if the RCMP (or police service) doesn't tell you five months as the longest waiting period, so when the clearance does get done in 2 months, you're pleasantly surprised????

raingirl
June 7th, 2005, 03:32 PM
bearsmom, there is an anonymous tip line to report people like that. Just so you know.

My mom got screwed by welfare and had to lie to survive. It's a long story, but she would have got her benefit reduced if they found new furniture and stuff, so when my grandmother died, she had to hide all the furniture when the social workers came by. But that was different. She was getting less than $8000 a year to raise and feed herself and 3 kids. My dad balked on child support. he was in too much debt so the divorce agreement was that my mom got the house and he paid the payments until it was paid off instead of child support.

I agree that canada's government sucks right now, but doesn't every countrys? What country has really got it all right. The areas we are lacking in now, may be better in other places, but they could be lacking in areas we are great in.

No amount of bitching or complaining to any MP is really going to change things.

Still, because of OHIP alone, I would rather live here then anywhere else in the world.

Britishvixen21
June 7th, 2005, 03:34 PM
I know bearmom its so easy here to do that and live comfortably not paying taxes! I thought i would do the honest thing and work like a dog to do it and its getting me no where. I know people like that back home, my home town has one of the highest teenage pregnancy rate in the UK, I have freinds with 5 kids 5 different Dads! who were making more than me and I worked my ass off as a legal assistant!
As for the RCMP wait times im keeping my fingers, toes, legs, arms and hair crossed that, that is the case. Im still filing without it and it will just be kept in a holding pattern until its done. so process will take longer!

Lizzie
June 7th, 2005, 03:43 PM
In many ways I agree with you Happycats. What goes on can be really annoying...we've been tainted by the "bad ones."

As far as hiring more people...I really don't want my tax dollars to go towards ensuring that the turn around of immigration applications is a quick process. There are far more important things going on here that need money first.

I do understand that you are frustrated, but you've got to take what you get. As I said earlier, approach your local MP....they have a constit office. If I were you I would prepare a detailed package and go IN to the office. Don't email or mail them...they are local and easily accessible. They may be able to help you--in the end, it is their job.

jackieb
June 7th, 2005, 03:50 PM
i would be annoyed too i applied for permanent residency in England so we come out on a permanent residant visa. The police check and clearance took 4 weeks the application process took over 2 years and a year for my pregnancy till i could have a medical. It actually took the london immigration office 6 months to write to me to say they got the application!

So i know how you feel good luck!

Britishvixen21
June 7th, 2005, 04:06 PM
But see Lizzie its not just immigration, its everything to do with police clearance so for instance if you were unemployed and got a job in a childcare centre, you would have to wait up to 150 days to start thats 6 months!!! because you would have to have police clearance. 6 months for a 'Canadian Citizen' who is unemployed to start a job.
Also the RCMP are currently not charging a fee to potential immigrants. I would happily pay a fee for this service if it meant the money was being put to recruitment and it meant it happening faster.
I have contacted my local MP and have spoken with his office today, they said that they are going to contact me in 'due course'
The one thing i have noticed in Canada and certainly more prominent today is the 'us' and them' mentality with regards to Canadian Citizen and new immigrants. This country really is becomming a rascist nation. but really arent we all in the same boat. because unless you are a native aboriginal canadian arent we all immigrants in one shape or another.

Britishvixen21
June 7th, 2005, 04:12 PM
I know Jackie, it really is a joke, the goverment complain that there is a shortage of teachers, doctors, nurses, skilled workers, the trucking industry in Canada is working at only 50% capacity, yet they are making skilled workers wait sometimes 4 years for a yes or no, and then when they get here these highly skilled workers are ending up working in Mcdonalds or driving a cab! Current waiting times for processing of applications in China for instance for a permanent residence application is 48 months for first stage approval. and getting a work permit in this country is a joke, trust me i know personally. Citizenship and Immigration Canada are one of the only immigration departments in the world that publish a yearly profit! so I hardly think good old Canadian tax dollars are needed to solve this problem.

happycats
June 7th, 2005, 04:29 PM
and then they arrive and are kept working in Mcdonalds flipping burger by biggots like yourself.
You are a racist and i am offended by your comments!
WTF!!! why the h$ll are you bringing race into this?? DO you know what colour I am?? DO I know what colour you are ??
How dare you call me a racist!!
It just goes to show what kind of person you really are! You probably are calling all the immigration workers trying to process your calim this as well!

Is that how you are trying to get your claim through faster???
Do you call your MP a biggot and racist??
If you do, I can see why thay are taking so long !!!!!!!

Mods were are you ? Is Britishvixin permitted to call me a biggot and racist ???

Britishvixen21
June 7th, 2005, 04:54 PM
what you said was rascist, and its not even a colour card, rascism and bigotry runs a hell of a lot deeper in society than that! you are implying like you are purebred canadian just because you are second generation that you have something over us lowly scumbag new residents. its the 'them' and 'us' mentality

and I quote "I am getting tired of so many (not all) people coming to this country demanding that we bend over backwards, and jump through hoops for them, and demanding that this country "owes" them something!!"

Give me one example of "people" who immigrated (not claimed refugee thats a whole different kettle of fish) and sponged off of YOUR goverment (oh and by the way as long as im paying my taxes its my bloody goverment too!) and il take back what I said! no ones here expecting anyone to bend over backwards, most highly skilled doctors who immigrate from countries like India are driving cabs for christ sake! I hardly think there looking for anything more than what they deserve. They wouldnt have been allowed into this country if they would have put CAb Driver on the application form so why should they have to do that job!

SnowDancer
June 7th, 2005, 05:09 PM
I will say only that there is a process - and I do happen to know that it is not that easy in Great Britain either. Also, I think that we have more than enough civil servants as it is.

happycats
June 7th, 2005, 05:11 PM
what you said was rascist, and its not even a colour card, rascism and bigotry runs a hell of a lot deeper in society than that!

check the dictionary, RACIST - A person with a belief that one race is superior to others. like I said WTF dioes race have to do with anything?

you are implying like you are purebred canadian just because you are second generation that you have something over us lowly scumbag new residents. its the 'them' and 'us' mentality Did I ever imply that I was better then you? I just asked you to stop insulting the counrty that I am very proud of, but hey if the shoe fits........


and I quote "I am getting tired of so many (not all) people coming to this country demanding that we bend over backwards, and jump through hoops for them, and demanding that this country "owes" them something!!"

your comments are just proving this point !

And as for your last comment about this being "your" country too.

Here is a quote from one of your posts "I don't even particularly want to stay anymore and the only reason I do is for my hb" that certainly does not sound like someone who is proud of "your country" !!!!

Lizzie
June 7th, 2005, 07:55 PM
On the note of police checks--a standard police check for employment for a Canadian citizen can be done through the police station on the spot. The RCMP check you need is different..they need to clear your record in your home country..that takes time.

A Canadian citizen needing a record check for work...as I have had to do myself...takes only minutes and can be done for 10-15 bucks at the local police department.

Lucky Rescue
June 7th, 2005, 08:52 PM
Racist: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

Before people start flinging words like "racist" and "slander" around, please make sure you know what you are talking about. I see no evidence of anything racially motivated in this discussion.

As for this country, sure we all complain. I've lived here all my life and paid a vertible fortune in taxes and sure have gripes too. There are other Canadians who lived here all their lives, have university degrees and THEY are flipping burgers at McDonald's too.

But overall, I think we're pretty damn lucky to live here.

happycats
June 8th, 2005, 08:33 AM
Here are some of the pets.ca rules !! you may want to take some time to read them :thumbs up

Swearing and being deliberately rude to other members is not permitted on this site which is often used by children of school age who seek advice and information. Slandering any person or organization is not permitted. If you want to warn people about another person or organization then you may only do so by private messaging or by emailing those people directly, never in any open forum.

AND

***All bulletin board posts are for purely personal/non-commercial use only. Promoting your own, or any other another business or website either directly or indirectly is not permitted. Threads not observing this stipulation will be deleted and offenders may be banned without notice. Posters using profanity or being deliberately rude will be banned.***

Britishvixen21
June 8th, 2005, 10:03 AM
I hope you took a good look at those while you were typing them!

If you didnt want a reaction dont provoce someone on the edge! I never said I didnt love this country I am frustrated at the ticker red tape that I am getting at every turn when trying to accomplish something that should be far more steamlined!
Typical of this website you took what I said out of context and blew it all out of proportion! and then was suprised when I blew back at you! im sorry but ive never been one to back down when i dont agree. if you dont like it ban me!
However I apologise for calling you a rascist in hindsight and review of my words yesterday I was a little harsh, but im sure if i let you come live my life for a week youd be ready to pounce too!

FYI - Some jobs require RCMP police clearance i.e. childcare workers, Airline staff, and most civil servants in high security positions but guess what there streamlined!

happycats
June 8th, 2005, 10:12 AM
However I apologise for calling you a rascist in hindsight and review of my words yesterday I was a little harsh, but im sure if i let you come live my life for a week youd be ready to pounce too!



I believe you were alot harsh you also called me a bigot.

You are right, everyone has a right to their opinion, and has a right to defend that opinion, but to resort to childish name calling and insults, is not the way you go about it !! Race and bigotry had nothing to do with anything!!
And I believe I have a right to defend the country I love!!
I would love to see you go into an American forum, and talk that way about their country!! They would chew you up and spit you out !!

happycats
June 8th, 2005, 10:15 AM
If you didnt want a reaction dont provoce someone on the edge!

If you didn't want people's opinions, you shouldn't have posted !!

Britishvixen21
June 8th, 2005, 11:44 AM
Whatever you know what if you cant accept my apology like an adult thats fine. I never ever dissed your country and if you had read the WHOLE post and not the bits you wanted to see, you would have seen that i am just frustrated! but as i said whatever I havent got time to keep posting if you cant be an adult about it. and quite frankly your detering away from the point of the post.

Britishvixen21
June 8th, 2005, 11:57 AM
Moderator - Please close this post, the childish tit for tat has tottally taken away from what I was trying to achieve and theres no point in it being open anymore!

Dragonfly
June 8th, 2005, 03:11 PM
Well, that is about enough about that.