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Irresponsible Dog Owner? Me? (long... sorry)

Shamrock
June 7th, 2005, 04:37 AM
An unusual incident occured today that I am still very upset about, and I wondered if I could ask you for your views.
A total stranger accused me of being negligent with my dog's safety.(anonymously)
Firstly, I am somewhat paranoid about leaving Percy alone in the car at ANY time of year. I worry about him being stolen. So its something I rarely ever do. Also, as he's very tiny, if I have to make a quick stop, I take him in with me, in my Pooch-Pouch. If I am going shopping, he stays home.

I am fully aware of the tragedy that can result from leaving a dog unattended in a vehicle in summer heat.Like all of us, I've heard the gut-wrenching stories of heatstroke deaths when the owner left the dog for a 'short time" to do errands, the interior car temperature soaring by the minute.
I even posted one here, about a dog who died in a vehicle at our airport- his owner waiting at arrivals for a delayed flight. :sad:

Anyway,today a friend and I decided to take our dogs to the local park trails for an outing. It was a sunny but COOL day, with a high of 18' ( 65 degrees) and so en route I decided to stop at a mall to check on an article price.
We knew exactly where to find it and went straight there.. We were NOT shopping, not purchasing anything, simply having a QUICK look to compare.
I parked in the shade.. and never for ONE moment did I lose sight of the fact that this had to be completed quickly as the dogs were in the car.
And it was. We were back in LESS than ten minutes - likely about seven or eight.
The dogs were fine, the car temp was normal.. and there was a note written on the drivers-window glass - in lipstick.

***hole! Dont leave dogs in your car with the windows up!

I was astonished, insulted, and so upset. :sick:
I would NEVER risk my dog's safety by leaving him unattended in summer heat for even ONE minute. I used my own judgement that it was safe in these temps- and for the brief time we would be gone. I should have opened the windows a bit, I realized the moment we got inside that I had forgotten. Even more reason to hurry. I've heard however, that in "real" heat, this does little to help.
What made this person assume that I was not coming right back or that my dogs were in any danger? They were not showing any signs of distress and it was not a HOT day.

Furthermore,if she WAS concerned about the health of our two dogs..why didnt she try to get them help? Wait a few minutes to see if I came back?
(which I did)

I applaud those who know when to act and do so - on behalf of animals who may be in great peril. Lives are saved this way. I would do it myself in a heartbeat. But if I felt help was needed, I would seek HELP - not write a nasty note and split!
Sure, she was trying to "educate" me - but a hit and run note isnt going to help them much if they WERE in need.
Maybe I am not seeing this right, taking it too personally. This seems presumptious to me, to "guess" circumstances.
Judging from this, one cannot today leave a dog alone in a car - at ANY time, without being challenged on a "perceived" risk of endangerment?

iRONKNiGHT
June 7th, 2005, 04:57 AM
First of all Shamrock.. you're a very nice person..
so forgive me but i have to point out something..


I decided to stop at a mall to check on an article price.
We knew exactly where to find it and went straight there..

If you were so concerned about all this, why did your friend not wait in the car?


***hole! Dont leave dogs in your car with the windows up!

okay i am pretty sure if you had seen the samething, you'd react the same way.. i know i would :(

What made this person assume that I was not coming right back or that my dogs were in any danger?
With all that's going on and with the start of summer.. and how is she too know what kinda person you Are? all she saw was "dog's left in locked car with windows all the way UP"


taking it too personally.
Well dont be so hard on yourself! we all mistakes..

Joey.E.CockersMommy
June 7th, 2005, 07:20 AM
It sounds like you didn't do any harm to your dog, but I might be worried that someone would steel him too.
like you said this person should have at least waited a few minutes untils you got back.

Bearsmom
June 7th, 2005, 07:32 AM
I carry two sets of keys for my vehicle, that way, if I need to stop in somewhere, I leave the car running with the air conditioning on full blast, the doors locked. Not really worried about anyone stealing the car with a 150lb black mastiff mix and a puppy in it.

I did watch something on the news the other day, where they gauged the temperature increase per minute in a vehicle with the windows closed, it was something like 6 or 7 degrees per minute.

I did call the police on Sunday when the temperature was 35 degrees celcius with a humidex of 47 degrees. Hubby and I went to Home Depot, and parked in the full sun, windows up, car off was a Land Rover with 2 GSDs in it. We came out of the store 20 minutes later, and the thing was still parked there with the dogs in obvious distress, so we called the police who did a forcible entry on the vehicle. Store staff (God bless 'em) came out with PAILS of water for these dogs who were so hot they just about drank the entire thing. About 5 minutes after the dogs were released, the owner shows up all irate that someone may have damaged her vehicle. Hubby went up one side of her then down the other, then the cops did the same thing.

Her excuse? She was at a really good sale at Winners!

ARGH

LavenderRott
June 7th, 2005, 08:14 AM
Please be careful about leaving your car running so that the air conditioning can keep the dogs cool while you are inside. Last summer a police officer did this for his canine partner, the air conditioner failed and started blowing out hot air instead of cold. He had left his car for 10 minutes and when he returned, the dog was close to death. The vet was unable to save him.

doggy lover
June 7th, 2005, 09:11 AM
This is one thing I have never done, I either leave the dog at home or someone stays in the truck with him, and yes I get upset too when I see people do this to their kids or dogs. You would be surprised how quick things can happen, it is better to be safe than sorry.

Bearsmom
June 7th, 2005, 09:11 AM
Ugh, that's scary! I'm never more than 5 minutes away from the vehicle if the dogs are with me.

iRONKNiGHT
June 7th, 2005, 09:15 AM
This is one thing I have never done, I either leave the dog at home or someone stays in the truck with him, and yes I get upset too when I see people do this to their kids or dogs. You would be surprised how quick things can happen, it is better to be safe than sorry.

Well said doggy :).. no length of time should be acceptable for an animal or child..

chico2
June 7th, 2005, 09:17 AM
Shamrock,we know you are a wonderful mom to your animals...I tend to react the same as this person,except I would have stayed until the owner came back,to make sure the dogs were ok.
She did not know if you were going to be gone 5 min or 2 hours..

Safyre
June 7th, 2005, 09:21 AM
*the use of "you" in this post does not refer directly to the OP, or any other person*

Not to upset anyone, but to be competely honest, I feel there is absolutely no reason to leave your dog unattended in a car.I don't care if its cold hot or anywhere in between. There is no good reason to leave your animal unattended. If you know you have to make a stop, you don't bring the dog. Or, you bring the dog home and then run your errand.

So maybe this person reacted badly becasue they feel the same way I do about this topic. They feel regardless of the weather, a dog shouldn't be left unattended in a car, and spoke out.

Should they have wrote with lipstick on your car ... no... I'm sure that was hard to get off, and terribly embarrasing.
How much more embarrased would you have been in the police or SPCA had become involved had they contacted the correct ppl?

Something to think about on those quick errands.

Writing4Fun
June 7th, 2005, 09:41 AM
I agree. You're probably a very wonderful person and a great mommy to your pup. BUT (you knew that was coming, right?) your friend should have stayed in the car. That's the way we do it all the time - especially because we usually have a sleeping child in the car seat who we don't want to wake up. :D So hubby usually runs in to get whatever, and I stay in the car with the kids & dog. If I'm alone with the dog, I don't stop. Period. (Unless I'm going to PetSmart ;) ).

However, I also agree that this person, if they were soooo concerned, should have at least stuck around to make sure the dogs were okay. That happened to me in the Canadian Tire parking lot not too long ago. I was in the car with the sleeping baby and Phoebe in the back. A couple pulled into the spot just behind us with two dogs in the car (I didn't see the dogs until the couple had walked into the store). They both get out (grrr!) and leave the dogs in the car, in the sun, with the sun roof open. I timed them. They were in the store for exactly 10 minutes. I was watching the dogs, and they didn't seem to be in distress. Had they shown any signs of overheating, I would have been the first one to call the police and dump a bucket full of water in through the sun roof onto their lovely leather seats. :evil: What I actually thought of doing (after they had left, of course :rolleyes: ) was getting a small thermometer and tossing it into the car to keep track of exactly how hot it was getting in that car. Hmmm.... I think I might take a trip to my local dollar store today to stock up on thermometers... :angel:

Bearsmom
June 7th, 2005, 09:43 AM
*If you know you have to make a stop, you don't bring the dog. Or, you bring the dog home and then run your errand.

.

Challenge being that if the vets' office is 45 minutes from home, and your errand is 35 minutes from home, or for those who live in the country with MILES between stops, it's not practical.

sammiec
June 7th, 2005, 09:53 AM
I know that you care about your animals. But sometimes we do show a lack of better judgement. :(

We were back in LESS than ten minutes - likely about seven or eight. The dogs were fine, the car temp was normal.. and there was a note written on the drivers-window glass - in lipstick.

***hole! Dont leave dogs in your car with the windows up!
This is MORE then enough time for two panting dogs to get beyond hot. It might have been comfortable for you to get back in the car, but they have more fur then a human.... The person leaving you the note may not have known that you were gone for a ""mere" 10 minutes and just saw that there were two animals locked in a car with the windows completely up. You're lucky your windows were not shattered and the dogs gone!

I would NEVER risk my dog's safety by leaving him unattended in summer heat for even ONE minute. I'm sorry to say this, but you did...

What made this person assume that I was not coming right back or that my dogs were in any danger? They were not showing any signs of distress and it was not a HOT day.
again, it might not have been hot for you, but for a dog it's a drastic difference. This person made the same assumption I or you probably would have - there are dogs locked in the car on a warm day. It's not fair for you to assume either that this person did not have their best intentions at heart. They were thinking about the animals, not the fact that you were gone for a short period of time. How would that person of known that you were gone for 10 minutes and not 30??

I personally never bring my animal anywhere that one person can not stay in the car with them, or where they are left in a vehicle at all. Wether it's winter or a warm spring day. There is sun and it's hot regardless of the outside temp.
We all make mistakes. Luckily all you had to come back to was spit and lipstick. ((((HUGS)))

raingirl
June 7th, 2005, 10:28 AM
i heard that in the shade, even on a cool day (15 to 20 C), a car can reach 30C in less than 5 minutes because it is an enclosed space and made of metal. Sorry Shamrock. If I had seen the dogs I might have done the same thing.

Eleni
June 7th, 2005, 10:42 AM
Shamrock tho i dont agree with leaving pets in vehicles, I do beleive in this

when someone knows better, they do better. and now you know better.

I dont think your a bad pet owner at all, I think your human and make mistakes.


Eleni

Princesss04
June 7th, 2005, 10:46 AM
I know you are a good pet owner but you made a mistake! There is no reason to beat you up now though! Just please do not do it again. So many things ccould happen. If it was me that saw that (I have seen it TOO MANY TIMES) I would have opened the door and taken the dogs! I was at the Wal-Mart one day, and there was a St. Bernard dog in the car next to me. Anyway it was hot and the windows were all rolled up. I sat in my car and watched that dog's tongue hang our for about 20 minutes. The owner was still gone. After 40 I opened the door and took the dog to the nearest vet, told them what happened. The dog was sick (vomiting, could not hardly breath) he lived but it was bad! The vet said that if I had not got him out of that car he would have died. :mad: People make me so mad! They never heard from the owners the dog found a great home and lived happily ever after. :D Glad I am not in jail for that one! :D

AliSam
June 7th, 2005, 11:11 AM
Sammie loves rides in the car or truck. He is NEVER left alone in the car in any weather. If he is with us, we are either ALL going somewhere, we are stopping at Tim Hortons and one of us stays in the car with him, or we are just going for a drive and not stopping. If something comes up when we are with him, we take him home first and then go back out (that DID actually happen once). Since we live in a fairly small town, close to everything, it isn't out of our way to do that. I realize that that isn't an option for everyone. What is more important? Your pet's life or that errand or something "that just came up"?

SnowDancer
June 7th, 2005, 11:32 AM
I won't leave my dog in the car either - fear of everything, including people sticking their fingers in the slightly open windows. BUT, yesterday I was accused of dog abuse because my dog asked to go for a walk (you don't ever turn down such an "unusual" request). We were out 3 minutes just at corner and I was blasted by one of people who lives directly behind the dog hating neighbours on my street. I was flabbergasted. Usually I am told my dogs are spoiled rotten - but the best cared for they have ever seen (old neighbourhood). It was 4:00 p.m., had to open my reserve bottle of Chianti I was so upset. Even though I am an insomniac, my 2 hours of sleep were filled with nightmares of ME - DOG ABUSER. We are going away this weekend and while my dog will be boarded with his dear friend the dog walker, the cat is going to the vet's. I called to confirm final arrangements this morning and spoke with my vet - she was speechless.

Eleni
June 7th, 2005, 11:35 AM
wow sam requests a walk hourly or less, despite having just been walked,


that much make me a huge abuser to my baby.



Eleni

kandy
June 7th, 2005, 11:37 AM
I am guilty of leaving my dogs in the vehicle sometimes. Most of the time, I have someone with me to stay with the dog. If it's summer, I leave the AC on. I just don't think its practical to take your dog home from the vets before you stop to get that dog food. If I plan on running errands, going shopping, etc., the dog doesn't go. I'm talking about having the dog with you and realizing that you are about to run out of gas, that kind of thing.

I agree that if the woman was concerned enough about the dogs to write the note, she should've stayed around to see how long you were in the store - of course, maybe she did stick around and you didn't see her. Although you think that it was rude (and I have to admit that lipstick is pretty rude) she had no way of knowing what kind of person you are, and that you don't leave your dogs in the car as a habit. The bad thing is - if you were someone who didn't care about leaving your dogs in a hot car, the note probably wouldn't effect you at all (other than being mad at having to clean it off the window) and for someone who loves their dogs and knows the danger it was unnecessary. I would never leave a note - I would wait to see if someone came out in a few minutes. If not, I would watch the dogs to see if they are in distress. If I thought the dog was in danger, I would call the police or break into the vehicle myself if needed.

Dukieboy
June 7th, 2005, 11:45 AM
Live and learn :o

LittleLoves
June 7th, 2005, 12:05 PM
Just another thought...

Besides the heat, there is always the chance that someone will hit your parked car and furbaby will be injured.

That being said, I have only ever left Lady alone in my car once, and that was at the vet's office. The vet requested I put Lady in the car while Oscar had his needles.

happycats
June 7th, 2005, 12:27 PM
like you said this person should have at least waited a few minutes untils you got back.
You never know, but this person may have been waiting in their car, to make sure you came back

One time while shopping, I noticed a van with 2 dogs (locked in on a hot day) parked across from me, so I waitied to see how long the owner took to get back (I would have called the police if he was long) The owner came right back, but I nicely said to him, that he shouldn't leave the dogs in the car alone, (I lied :evil: and said some kids were banging on the window teasing them, hoping he wouldn't do it again).

Anyway Shamrock I know you love your furbabies, live and learn ;)

Lissa
June 7th, 2005, 12:37 PM
I agree that dog's shouldn't be left in the car. I did that a couple of times to Dodger in the fall/winter and felt terrible when I came back to the car and he was shivering. Now, I always make sure that someone is with me if I need to stop somewhere so that Dodger can be walked while the other runs into the store.

Everyone here knows that you are a good dog owner and never meant for anything to happen. I commend you for even sharing this with us here, where you knew you might get scolded!

I am also surprised but happy that many of you do say something to the owners (if not more :D ). It seems so common place and acceptable around here that you would think nobody ever tried to educate people about this!

Melissa

Shamrock
June 7th, 2005, 01:12 PM
Thank you for your input on this, I appreciate your honest and candid opinions on this.
To clarify one thing for you: The reason my friend didnt wait with the dogs (the obvious solution) is that it was she who was considering the article we were checking on - and me who knew exactly where to find it.
I should have explained to her where to look,then waited myself with the dogs. It just seemed easier to show her. I didnt see any risk associated with this, or I simply wouldnt have left the vehicle - or even made the stop.
I clearly thought wrong. Very wrong. :(

For those who have intervened for dogs in distress- kudos to you! We all should be prepared to act if needed, it could save an animals life. If any of my precious pets were in danger, I would hope and pray that someone woud rescue them - and not worry about anything BUT them!. I would do the same with no hesitation. The key is - IF they appear to NEED rescuing. Surely common sense should prevail.
I would at least wait a few minutes to SEE what was going on, and if no one returned, the animals seemed to be distressed- I'd get help wthout delay.

My issues with this particular incident are two-fold.
If this person had the animals "best interests' at heart, why didnt she stick around to see if they were ok - talk to me face to face?
Expressing her concerns on this practice, confirm that the dogs were indeed fine, and not illl or suffering. THAT is helping animals - and educating owners.
Maybe she was watching, Happycats - I never thought of that.

At any rate, if the end justifies the means, I most certainly will NEVER be leaving Percy in my car again for ANY reason. I would never do anything to comprise his safety - or my credibiltiy as a responsible caregiver - and I appparently did both. I really regret this decision, and will never forget it.

The other thing that troubles me about this issue:
If I now understand correctly -ANY animal spotted alone in a vehicle at ANY time - warrants smashing windows, calling police, SPCA, removing said animal, whether they are in distress or not- based on a projection of what "COULD" happen - not what IS happening.

This somehow seems off-kilter to me.
If I believe the neighbours have gone away and left their dogs at risk, can I break into their house to check?
If I do so, and the police show up and find all ok - then what?

If animals are simply IN a vehicle - but not suffering,then no crime has taken place -YET.
Unless of course you have smashed their windshield..

Thanks again all. Live and learn sums it up!

Daisy's Owner
June 7th, 2005, 01:28 PM
Personally, I think the lipstick writer was completely out of line. The dog was not in distress. It was not a hot day. The writer did not know the circumstances surrounding why the dog was left in the car. The writer was being the a$$ by defacing personal property.

No, I don't think dogs should be left in cars, but, you know what, sometimes $hit happens. (As an IBS sufferer, I mean that literally!)

The other thing that troubles me about this issue:
If I now understand correctly -ANY animal spotted alone in a vehicle at ANY time - warrants smashing windows, calling police, SPCA, removing said animal, whether they are in distress or not- based on a projection of what "COULD" happen - not what IS happening.

This somehow seems off-kilter to me.
If I believe the neighbours have gone away and left their dogs at risk, can I break into their house to check?
If I do so, and the police show up and find all ok - then what?

If animals are simply IN a vehicle - but not suffering,then no crime has taken place -YET.
Unless of course you have smashed their windshield..

Very good point.

sammiec
June 7th, 2005, 01:32 PM
Shamrock, you are absolutely correct. There is no justification in smashing someone's window to retrieve a pet locked inside. I don't think I would be the one to do this unless there was absolutely no denying that the animal was in distress. BUT people have different views of distress, and someone could have seen that the animals were locked inside, panting and not cared to find out how long it would take or has taken for the owner to return.
I am in no means saying that would bethe course of action I would have taken, but it's definately something someone might have felt was justifiable with animals locked in a car.

Thank you for sharing this experience with us. You're a wonderful soul and we know you meant no harm to those animals. It was just a temporary lapse in judgement and you shouldn't need to explain yourself any further.

I nominate a thread locking.

Karin
June 7th, 2005, 01:56 PM
The rear of our dogmobile, (suv) is and always has been set up for Ciara. She loves it so much she is happy to stay there even sitting idle in the driveway. I leave her in there with the windows down for trips to the local grocery store and other short trips. This time of year I only do this in the cool morning hours. If I break out the evil suck machine (vaccuum) she makes a beeline for the door, then the truck. That is how I get housecleaning done, her in the truck fearing I am going to be sucked up.

I never make long trips with her anymore due to the possibilty of a vehicle breakdown. It happened once last year. She cannot get out to "hoof it" if need be. But I will not deny her one of her greatest joys either. We make many short trips and I leave her in the truck where she is happy.

She looks for excuses to be in the truck. It is hard to say no.

Princesss04
June 7th, 2005, 02:19 PM
Shamrock you are a good pet owner. We all do things that we wish we would not have! I have not changed my opinion on you one bit! I enjoy reading your post and talking with you! I do no think anyone should look down on you for this I know I do not and will not! Accidents happen we are all human and no one is perfect! :D :grouphug:

Bearsmom
June 7th, 2005, 02:48 PM
That is how I get housecleaning done, her in the truck fearing I am going to be sucked up.
http://bestsmileys.com/lol/5.gif

Cactus Flower
June 7th, 2005, 03:15 PM
..... It was a sunny but COOL day, with a high of 18' ( 65 degrees) .....
I parked in the shade.... We were back in LESS than ten minutes - likely about seven or eight.....The dogs were fine, the car temp was normal....

Ok. The above parts of the original post are important to me.

At 65 degrees, I'd be asking for a sweater. I know I live in the desert, but that truly is chilly to me, and my dogs. Certainly not a dangerous temperature to have your pets out in, anyway. Especially for around eight minutes.

If it was 65 degrees in the sun, I wonder what the temperature was in the SHADE, where the dogs were?

I do not think that they were in danger, and I trust Shamrock's judgment on this. That's what it boils down to for me.

I would be upset, too, by the message on the windshield, but it was probably written by someone (like the good people here) who is just very passionate about animal welfare. They likely assumed you to be the type of person who does this as a habit, even in sweltering weather. As has already been pointed out, they didn't know you, Shamrock. Please try to shake off that hurt :grouphug: .

Yes, I would have had the windows cracked- for ventilation, if nothing else. Shamrock has already expressed regret for not doing that.

As for the talk about shattering windshields/windows- our governor has made it legal for animal control to break whatever they need to, in order to save an animal inside a vehicle. You'd be amazed by how many people put their dogs at risk in TRULY dangerous temps here.

heeler's rock!
June 7th, 2005, 03:28 PM
Last summer a police officer did this for his canine partner, the air conditioner failed and started blowing out hot air instead of cold. He had left his car for 10 minutes and when he returned, the dog was close to death. The vet was unable to save him.

Yes, that was a sad story. that happened here in Calgary I believe. There were 2 dogs in the car I believe. One was his partner, the other the family pet. I believe it was the K-9 unit dog that had to be PTS. The officer was devestated and it was entirely not his fault as he was just following procedures. :(

I have been guilty of leaving my dogs unattended in the car, but when I do, it's literally for a few minutes and it's usually because I already had them with me coming back from somewhere like the dog park, and realized I have to pick up some milk or something really quickly. If I go get dog food, I take them in with me as dogs are allowed on leash in the pet stores here. If I know I'm gonna be longer than a few minutes, I take them home first.

Lucky Rescue
June 7th, 2005, 03:33 PM
I don't think a dog left in a car for 10 minutes, at 65 degrees and in the shade is in danger at all. I would probably leave a window open an inch or two.

glasslass
June 7th, 2005, 03:39 PM
In the defense of the lipstick-writer, one can't assume the person had something else to write with or that they hadn't gone into the store to call for assistance. Not everyone carries a cell phone! They didn't know you or your intentions, nor do we know what their intentions were other than to alert you your dog could have been in danger. In these days of people forgetting infants in carseats, no one should assume another person's intentions. Don't be upset. Be grateful someone cared enough to do something.

Shamrock
June 7th, 2005, 03:53 PM
Thanks so much for the kind words that have been offered above :grouphug:
I've been doing some online research on this topic -more I read,worse I feel. :sad:
I take things of this nature VERY seriously, as we all do.
These dogs were NOT in danger at the temperatures.
But - when I realized within one or two minutes that I had failed to open the windows .. I thought "should I go right back?" And I didnt. :sad: I decided we were already inside, would just really hurry. THAT I feel very guilty about. I shouldnt have "chanced" this.
But, no sense fretting about what is done and over with.

I've noted that some groups have "heat warning" flyers available that can be left on vehicles regarding this danger. The SPCA has 100 for $15.
I've just ordered these. To help maybe derive some "good" feeling from this bad experience, I plan to go back to this same mall on the very first day of summer ( June 21st) just place them on cars at random.( I would never deface another's vehicle) :

Most people have dogs, or their neighbours do. Can just serve as a general reminder, couldnt it? Cant hurt anything ;)

sammiec
June 7th, 2005, 03:58 PM
Good for you Shamrock! :thumbs up

Please, stop beating yourself up over this!! (((HUGS)))

Safyre
June 7th, 2005, 04:11 PM
BearsMom - I respect where you are comming from, but I disagree. I feel it is an attempt at justifying a bad action.
My vet is km's away from my house as well, city driving much harder on a car, and I still won't stop somewhere on an errand and leave a dog in the car.
I cannot understand someone doing so unless of an absolute emergency (you see an accident and run out to check if they are ok.. things such as this)

Edit: Shamrock - You said it already I beleive, or someone, Live and Learn. you cannot change the past, but you can change the future. Every single day we learn something, big or small. Stop beating yourself up over it, go give your doggy a treat or two :)

Copper'sMom
June 7th, 2005, 04:48 PM
Shamrock, you made a small mistake(as we all have at one time or another whether it be with dogs, kids or anything else). There was no harm done to the dogs and that's the main thing! :grouphug:

I'm quite surprised at all of the responses here but I am with BearsMom and Karin.
My Jeep is home away from home for Copper. It is like a crate to him! He goes every where with me and yes even to the grocery store. My biggest fear is that someone would try to steal him or hurt him, therefore I never leave him with the windows down more than an inch and a half at the most and my doors are always locked. I do my errands as quick as I can and if the line ups are long, I do it another day or pay more money at a variety store.

I DO NOT do my errands in the middle of a hot spring/summer/autumn day with Copper in the Jeep. The only driving we do then, is back and forth to work and maybe a stop at the gas station where my windows are down and I pay at the pumps. As for winter, I still make my trips as short as possible, and Copper wears a sweater plus the jeep is full of blankets and when he's sleeping he is wrapped up nice and cozy. I have never once came back where he is shivering. And like I said before, if it takes to long, I just do it another day.

Most of the time, when we get home from work, Copper stays in the jeep. I have to drag him out!! If I park my jeep in the shop at work and leave a door open, he hops in(he's tried this with customers vehicles as well)!! He's content to sit in the back and look out the back window - I think it's because he sits higher and has a better view!

My life revolves around my dog(sad but true). He's my best friend - word's cannot explain how much he means to me. If I felt he was in danger, I would avoid the situation completely.

My two cents!

poodletalk
June 7th, 2005, 05:01 PM
Whats the point of writting on your car in lipstick? If it was an extrmely hot day, the dog would have died and you would have had an obnixious message on your window. If the person really cared about the dog in a car with the windows closed, she would have gone in the store and got security. Security would have announced your liscense plate number through out the store. Two weeks ago when I was in Miami, I saw a small bichon locked in a car with the windows closed and it was over 90 degrees out! I went into the store Macys and called the mall security. Like I said, they announced the liscense plate number and the owner of the car went to security and security made them open the windows of the air immediatley.

I leave my dogs in the car for couple of minutes, no harm in it, if its done right and the dogs aren't in the car for hours on end.

Prin
June 7th, 2005, 10:54 PM
First of all, anybody who swears in a note to somebody with beasties in the car has no class and the message will not get through if the person with the beasties is that bad. You never approach a touchy subject by being rude.. Just the tone would make me lose respect for the note and I wouldn't think about it for one more minute... Just my opinion.

As for the doggies, I leave mine in the car all the time in certain conditions. I leave my windows cracked too open for them (enough to stick a hand in there and steal them probably. In your situation, I would probably have done the same thing and I have to say, a lot of people notice my doggies in the car but nobody has ever said anything mean or disrespectful to me about it. I think if you didn't crack the windows at all, that might be the problem that caused such a stir...

I say forget about the note. As long as you seriously are aware of the consequences of high temps and never turn a 5 minute stop into an hour, I don't have an issue.

melanie
June 8th, 2005, 12:02 AM
in the state of new south wales australia it has jsut become illeagle ot leave a dog in a car at any time in any weather, studies have shown a cars internal temp can sour in even what a human would consider cool conditions.

the new laws mean that-

if your dog is left in a car at any time in any conditions the police and the RSPCA are legally allowed to enter your car anyway possible and remove your dog, they wil not come and look for you, they are concerned for the animal only...

this law has already been enacted, if ppl see your dog in a car they will ring the cops/rspca and the cops will come and smash your window in and remove the dog. it has happened several times already and i ahve no objection what so ever.....

***this is from the NSW RSPCA web site***-
The RSPCA advises dog owners not to leave their dogs (or any other pet) in a car even on a moderately warm day as dogs can die in as few as 4-6 minutes.

Never leave your dog in a car unattended, even just for a few minutes. The inside of a car can heat up quickly and cause the pet great suffering.

If you do see a pet left unattended in a car on a warm day and it appears to be suffering, do not interfere yourself, call the local Police or the RSPCA.

Facts regarding animals and heat:

Please take the time to read this information and consider sharing it with others. It could mean life or death for an animal this summer.

The temperature inside a parked vehicle can double in a matter of minutes. A dog left inside a vehicle can die within minutes as they are not able to sweat to cool themselves. A dog panting inside a car will raise the temperature even more quickly.

The effect of heat stress from being left inside a vehicle begins with the animal in distress and perhaps clawing at the doors or windows. As the temperature rises the animal begins to experience confusion then the muscles meltdown which can lead to collapse and finally death.

Leaving the windows down does little to slow this process.

The RSPCA believes that despite the weather, animals should never be left alone in vehicles. In addition to the risks from heat, cars can be stolen, damaged or even catch fire leaving no one present to rescue the animal from inside the vehicle.

RSPCA Inspectors and Police Officers can break into a vehicle if the animal inside is clearly distressed or might become distressed and urgent action is required.

If ever a situation occurs where an animal must be left in a vehicle for a short time then the driver should leave a note on the vehicle giving the time of return. This should save unnecessary action by concerned passers by.

PLEASE REMEMBER

DOGS DIE IN HOT CARS - DON'T LET YOURS

if i ever saw a dog/child in a car in any condition i would immeadiatly contact the police or rspca and have it attended to, but leaving a note is a very good idea for future reference, if i saw an note that was a good explanation, like 'i have jsut poped in to pick up the kids or my prescription' i would wait 5 minutes before calling the police.... and i would hope that others would do this to me also if i was in the position (not to meniton if you ahve had an accident away form the car such as fainting you may not mean to be longer but it may be unaviodable and the emergency services may not know yoru dog is in the car)..

food for thought

iRONKNiGHT
June 8th, 2005, 12:19 AM
Those are law's i can live with :) Way to go NSW Aussie!

Bearsmom
June 8th, 2005, 10:50 AM
Safyre, that's why they're called opinions.

With doors locked, windows cracked, car running with a/c, I am NOT driving an extra 30 minutes to be exactly in the same spot I started from, so I can be in a pet food store to buy dog food for what, a total of 5 minutes? Sorry, but THAT's not practical for ME. Plus, I drive a brand new car, the a/c had better not quit. I would NEVER leave my dogs in a vehicle without the a/c on (summer months) for anything longer than 10 minutes.

Sorry, that's just the way I feel.

nymph
June 8th, 2005, 11:07 AM
Shamrock: stop beating yourself up, everyone makes mistakes, I'd certainly made my share of mistakes...live and learn.

:grouphug:

Safyre
June 8th, 2005, 11:21 AM
If it's your opinion, the word "sorry" doesn't need to be there. Never apologize for opinions.
I believe we can agree to disagree on this topic. My opinion and stance will not change, as neither will yours.

CyberKitten
June 8th, 2005, 04:05 PM
Shamrock, I agree with the others. No need to beat yourself up over this time and again. You are a good pet person - we all know that, you know it. The note writer did not but despite the unorthodox methods, my thinking is that she meant well. She prob had no pen. I don't thbink rudeness is called for tho! Don't shoot the messenger in other words. She had your dog's best interests at heart. Wuld you prefer she was a dog napper?

I never left my dog (when I had one) in the car and here, it is not just hot weather but laws also need to exist about leaving a dog out in the cold too! A dog can succomb to frostbite at -40 just as easily as you or me! I once left my "nephew" choc lab in my SUV for 5 minutes while I ran into a grocery store to pick something up (It was something put aside so I knew I would not have to wait). In that short period of time, the kleenex box was all over the vehicle, lol That was a good lesson!

mona_b
June 8th, 2005, 10:17 PM
This is a lesson learned Shamrock.. :)

Also,for those who leave their cars running with the AC on,don't think that if there is a dog in the car that it won't get stolen.It has happened so many times.And you read it in the paper.And to be honest,even if the car isn't running and the dog is in it,it won't stop theives from taking it.And I have seen this a few times.

I never have and never will leave my dog in the car.But that's just me..... :)

laughingwaters
June 10th, 2005, 05:33 PM
I agree with Daisy's Owner re: the note. It would have offended me too. What gives a person the right to curse you? People are so militant. I don't think adressing a driver as ***hole adds anything to the message.

These dogs were NOT in danger at the temperatures.
But - when I realized within one or two minutes that I had failed to open the windows .. I thought "should I go right back?" And I didnt. I decided we were already inside, would just really hurry. THAT I feel very guilty about. I shouldnt have "chanced" this.

I do think there's still alot of rationalizing about the temperature and time spent in the store, etc. The fact is bad things can happen. Suppose he had been stolen - would it matter that it was only 65 degrees? There's always a risk. Unless I could keep an eye on the car, I wouldn't leave my dog in there. Mark you, he would bark continuously and I'd be in trouble anyway!

Some opinions do seem extreme but people have good reasons for getting there. I wouldn't dismiss them so quickly.

Shamrock
June 10th, 2005, 06:16 PM
Some opinions do seem extreme but people have good reasons for getting there. I wouldn't dismiss them so quickly.

I dont wish to stir this up again, the matter covered- but would like to address this one comment, if I may.

Extreme opinions are fine.
Extreme ACTIONS may not be fine, and in fact may be radical and/or illegal.

Example:
Five or six years ago, a group of animal lovers associated with a well known animal advocates group were kidnapping dogs from peoples yards - believing they were being mistreated by being confined/ unattended.
In some instances- this was NOT the case. They just "thought" it was.

Did they mean well? Of course.
Was it right - this vigilante type action?

Your're quite accurate - people are much more outspoken and even militant today. This overall is a good thing, in my opinion. People arent afraid to speak up at injustices, act when necessary. Animals and children are the big benefactors of this - voiceless and dependent.

But it can be taken too far - in any area - under the guise of passionate views. And within the general population.. there are always those for whom a cause might become an obsession.
Those who torch abortion clinics staunchly believe they are doing right.