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HELP! Have to Crate Shadow

SarahLynn123
June 6th, 2005, 03:08 PM
So today is the third day in a row I have came home to Shadows poopy mess. She usually does really well for about a week, then goes to the bathroom on the floor for a few or more days. Currently while we are at work she is in the basement (concrete floors) with her stuff. Obviously she is not getting it!

This is what I believe her problem is: she doesn't want to miss anything! If we let her out she goes pee and runs back in, if we go out with her she pees really fast and tries to play with us (we dont play though). She wont go on our nightly walks or while we are playing the park. Its getting frustrating.

So should I just throw her in a crate, or should I slowly introduce her to it, should I put it in the basement or keep it upstairs with Belle (who is not crated). We leave in the morning around 7am, back at noon, gone at 12:45pm back at 4:45pm. Its the same thing everyday so she should be used to the schedule by now!

She is an 8 year old spayed German Shephard X. We have had her for about 2 months now.

Thanks
Sarah

BeagleMum
June 6th, 2005, 03:25 PM
The one thing that I would suggest is to not leave the dog in the basement. The pee and poop will eventually soak into the concrete and start to smell. Aside from that I really don't know what to suggest. I would say however not to just stick the dog in the crate. They need time to get used to it.

SarahLynn123
June 6th, 2005, 03:33 PM
The one thing that I would suggest is to not leave the dog in the basement. The pee and poop will eventually soak into the concrete and start to smell. Aside from that I really don't know what to suggest. I would say however not to just stick the dog in the crate. They need time to get used to it.


We started her blocked off in the kitchen, she managed to barge through it, plus took down the blinds and ripped up the garbage :evil:

We clean up as soon as we get home. I cant think of anywhere else in the house to put her! I didn't know it could soak into the concrete, now you have me all worried!!!

I have read that its best to slowly introduce the crate to her aswell. It's just so frustrating! But I have cleaned up crap for so long now, a few more weeks isn't going to make a difference!!!

Thanks

Princesss04
June 6th, 2005, 03:48 PM
I would crate her but slowly! If she hates the crate it will make it 10 times worse. Take some time and work on it. As far as the basement we went through that and it will smell even if you clean it up after a little while. I found that spray bleach on the floor and let it soak and than clean it up really helped. It gets better I promise. Was she trained from the start or was she not house broken when you got her. If not than you have to start like she is a puppy and start all over. :D Hang in there it will get better. I thought it would never but it is like one day it just clicks and everything is fine. You are a good mommy! :D

SarahLynn123
June 6th, 2005, 04:07 PM
I would crate her but slowly! If she hates the crate it will make it 10 times worse. Take some time and work on it. As far as the basement we went through that and it will smell even if you clean it up after a little while. I found that spray bleach on the floor and let it soak and than clean it up really helped. It gets better I promise. Was she trained from the start or was she not house broken when you got her. If not than you have to start like she is a puppy and start all over. :D Hang in there it will get better. I thought it would never but it is like one day it just clicks and everything is fine. You are a good mommy! :D


They said she was house trained but it seems like its only when we are home. She holds her poop in until we leave! (I swear she does!) We picked her up from a humane society so they only know what they were told and they just passed on the info. We think she was outside alot in her last home. I will try the bleach, Ive been using vinegar to clean it up and letting natures miricle sit on it for a bit. So far no smell but that probably wont last long.

Whats another month of poop cleaning hey! I will do it slowly but when she is crate trained should I keep it in the basement or bring it upstairs?

Thanks!

Princesss04
June 6th, 2005, 04:10 PM
I would bring the crate upstairs. She still needs to feel like a part of the family even though she is in the crate. So I would crate train her and than leave it upstair when you leave. My boys stay in a crate when we leave. They stay in the computer room when we are gone. They have a blanket and toys in the crate with them so they are fine. :D

SarahLynn123
June 6th, 2005, 04:17 PM
I would bring the crate upstairs. She still needs to feel like a part of the family even though she is in the crate. So I would crate train her and than leave it upstair when you leave. My boys stay in a crate when we leave. They stay in the computer room when we are gone. They have a blanket and toys in the crate with them so they are fine. :D

Makes sense, thanks! I was worried that she would be jelous that Belle can go where ever she likes and Shadow would be stuck in a cage!

Dog Dancer
June 8th, 2005, 01:19 AM
Hi SarahLynn, seems our Shadows are sisters still. My Shadow pulls the blinds off the windows almost every time we leave her home alone in the house. And that is with the blinds pulled all the way open - she'll climb on the back of the sofa to get to them! :rolleyes: I never was able to crate train her - our behaviorist says on top of separation anxiety she seems to be claustrophobic also. Even sedated we could not crate her without fear that she would hurt herself. Good luck to you. My friend who is a trainer suggests feeding them in the crate to get them to go into it (leave the door off or open). You may need to place the dish at the front, but then move it back in a bit each time. Now Shadow goes to day care as it's cheaper than fixing the house every day!

melanie
June 8th, 2005, 02:33 AM
you need to teach her toilet training again, you say the HS said she was toilet trained, and yes she may very well have been in her old home, perhaps she had different routines and feeding times etc and now it is different....

how will crating the dog stop her pooing inside???

and if she is crapping in the basement, she will crap in her crate and i think it would be far more humane and hygenic to let her poo on the floor than in a crate where she would have to sit in it all day till you came home.

i would suggest you look at your feeding routines, dogs dont hold on like children because something interesting is happening, there is a reason for it and it may jsut be the times you are feeding her. her food takes time to process and perhaps when it is processed is the time you are out. try feeding her in the afternoon so it goes through over night and she will dispose of it the next morning naturally and then into the basement.

i know if i fed my girl in the morn, and left her inside for the day it would process and come out while i was not home.....

also your dog should be pretty regular in a way, that is it may poo in the morn or evening and such....watch her bodies routine and try and follow that, if she has a meal and no action for 18hrs well there is you solution.....

Quote 'So should I just throw her in a crate' i am trying to be kind here and not judgemental, but try putting yourself in that position......it wont teach her anything to have such severe changes in her life, cages have their place, but they are not training tools.......

focus on toilet routines and i think you may just have a solution that does not require locking your dog in a cage (i do not support caging dogs)....

i hope that helps a bit, good luck.....

from a 9yo GSDX owner :D (their the best breed) :D

Eleni
June 8th, 2005, 07:15 AM
i suggest feeding her in the crate, that way she equates something good with the crate, then later you can freeze something like PB in her kong and give that to her when shes crated.

sam always eats his dinner in his crate, and he loves it,

we are starting to wean him away from the crate now tho, hes well behaved and doesnt need it so much, my hope is eventually he will sleep in a dog bed on teh bedroom floor and only go to the cage when he needs solitude from the kids, or when hes going in the car.

sorry to hijack LOL

if you dont feel stressed yourself about the crate then it will help shadow feel less stressed, another thing we did on the vets suggestion is hide treats amongst the blankets of sams crate, he would go in willingly and spend the whole time looking for his treats

it was funy to watch

Eleni
Eleni

SarahLynn123
June 8th, 2005, 09:53 AM
you need to teach her toilet training again, you say the HS said she was toilet trained, and yes she may very well have been in her old home, perhaps she had different routines and feeding times etc and now it is different....

how will crating the dog stop her pooing inside???

and if she is crapping in the basement, she will crap in her crate and i think it would be far more humane and hygenic to let her poo on the floor than in a crate where she would have to sit in it all day till you came home.

i would suggest you look at your feeding routines, dogs dont hold on like children because something interesting is happening, there is a reason for it and it may jsut be the times you are feeding her. her food takes time to process and perhaps when it is processed is the time you are out. try feeding her in the afternoon so it goes through over night and she will dispose of it the next morning naturally and then into the basement.

i know if i fed my girl in the morn, and left her inside for the day it would process and come out while i was not home.....

also your dog should be pretty regular in a way, that is it may poo in the morn or evening and such....watch her bodies routine and try and follow that, if she has a meal and no action for 18hrs well there is you solution.....

Quote 'So should I just throw her in a crate' i am trying to be kind here and not judgemental, but try putting yourself in that position......it wont teach her anything to have such severe changes in her life, cages have their place, but they are not training tools.......

focus on toilet routines and i think you may just have a solution that does not require locking your dog in a cage (i do not support caging dogs)....

i hope that helps a bit, good luck.....

from a 9yo GSDX owner :D (their the best breed) :D

Thanks for the help! I would never "just throw her in a crate" I said that out of frustration. Ive never been one for crates either, but Ive never been in this situation before. My understanding is that a crate would help her/teach to hold it until we get home because she doesn't want to go on herself.

She gets fed 3 times a day, morning/noon/and supper. We really cant change that a whole lot because she is on medication that goes in her food 3 times a day.

Our routine has never changed, she will do well for a week then 4-5 days she is going all over the basement. Nothing changes. Here is our routine incase you notice anything that can be changed:
6:00am up and outside to the bathroom
6:30am outside again
7:00am breakfast in the basement and a kong
12:15pm outside to the bathroom
12:30pm lunch in the basement and a kong
4:45pm outside to the bathroom
4:45-6:00pm play time/watch us make supper and eat
6:00pm supper time
she gets let out regularily after 6:00 and either goes for a long walk or a run in the park before bed.
11:00pm bed time
I think she should beable to hold it while we are out!

How do I go about potty training her when we are not home? She wakes me up at night if she has to go and lets us know during the day!

Thanks for the help!
Sarah

SarahLynn123
June 8th, 2005, 10:00 AM
Hi SarahLynn, seems our Shadows are sisters still. My Shadow pulls the blinds off the windows almost every time we leave her home alone in the house. And that is with the blinds pulled all the way open - she'll climb on the back of the sofa to get to them! :rolleyes: I never was able to crate train her - our behaviorist says on top of separation anxiety she seems to be claustrophobic also. Even sedated we could not crate her without fear that she would hurt herself. Good luck to you. My friend who is a trainer suggests feeding them in the crate to get them to go into it (leave the door off or open). You may need to place the dish at the front, but then move it back in a bit each time. Now Shadow goes to day care as it's cheaper than fixing the house every day!

This is just unreal!!! I cant believe how alike they are! We are still debating on the crate thing, if she hates it I wont force it but I will definataly introduce it slowly. I have a hard time getting Shadow to go outside in the rain I can jsut imagine how trying to get her in her crate will go!

Eleni- Hijack away, I love hearing other people story's and how things worked out for them!

Thanks for the help and ideas!

Sarah

heeler's rock!
June 8th, 2005, 10:59 AM
Hey Sarah! I'm sorry to hear about Shadow's pooping and peeing in the basement! As you know, we've had our challenges with Kia and Helix pooping in the basement and even in the living room! YUCK! We also have a routine and they'd do fine for a bit, then all of a sudden crap again where they're not allowed to. We do crate now when we're not home, and it's been a life saver. Helix also had destructive tendencies like chewing up my window sills, my cushions, baseboards, and drywall. He'd also get Kia started and she'd chew up our table, walls, and baseboards too! He'd also rip out all the insulation from the basement!! I hated the idea of crating too, until I just couldn't take it anymore. It was crating or my sanity!! :p They've never pooped in their crates and they're able to hold it now until they go out. It didn't take long for them to get used to being in their crates and Helix was crate trained when we got him which helped. I would suggest using a treat or something to lure her in and let her play and eat the treat in her crate. If she likes fetch, you can throw a toy in there for her and let her get it and bring it to you. The best crate for her I think would be a large metal crate that allows her to see everything going on around her. When I did dog walking, a lady who's 3 irish setters I walked would have the metal crates in the the computer area, and they would go crazy! As soon as she moved them all to the basement next to eachother so they could see eachother and what was going on, they were so much more calm! Try a metal crate in the kitchen so Shadow can see Belle and what's going on around her.

How is the rest of her training going by the way? :)

Luba
June 8th, 2005, 11:35 AM
Why not gate off the kitchen area with child gates?

SarahLynn123
June 8th, 2005, 12:02 PM
Why not gate off the kitchen area with child gates?

That was the first thing I tried before the basement, We put one baby gate on top of the other so neither dog can jump it and she ripped off the blinds, removed the garbage from the bag and threw it everywhere! then barged through the gates to hang with Belle! The gates were on so tight that she took paint off the walls when she did it :evil: She must have tried for a while to get through!!!!

SarahLynn123
June 8th, 2005, 12:15 PM
Hi Pami! I know exactly what you mean when you say your crating for your sanity! I swear Ive tried everything else I can think of! She doesn't go in one spot either, she must walk around down there at the same time :yuck:

She loves to play fetch so we will start there, plus she is very food driven so she probably cant resist going in there to get a treat! The wire crates is exactly what I was looking at, she would be much more comfortable being able to see out!

Other then this her training is going really well! We haven't been working as much as we should on the leash training because we have been at the park almost every night. Her recall is getting much much better but not 100% yet so she is still on the 50' lead. Belle is turning into a bit of a jerk at the parks these days though (trying to dominate more dogs then usual), knowing Shadow "has her back" they really have become inseperable!

Thanks for your help! Its nice to know Im not the only one that had to deal with this!

Talk to you soon!

Luba
June 8th, 2005, 12:58 PM
So, retry the baby gates and doggie proof the kitchen more....keep the counters clean and take the garbage into the other room when you're not there.

Leave toys, water and things for play and chew.

How many hours a day is the dog left home alone? If it's 7/8 hours get a walker in 1/2 way through the day.

I am sure it will work out :D

Just remember to maybe put doggie beds in the kitchen like under the table or something for them to have some privacy and sense of 'space'

happycats
June 8th, 2005, 01:07 PM
The one thing that I would suggest is to not leave the dog in the basement. The pee and poop will eventually soak into the concrete and start to smell.

There is a special concrete floor paint you can buy, most hadrware stores sell them. just paint the floor so you don't have to worry about it :)
I used to keep the litter boxes in the basement and sometimes, someone :rolleyes: would pee beside in on the concrete floor, so I just painted it, it washes up really easy that way, and leaves no smell!

SarahLynn123
June 8th, 2005, 01:22 PM
So, retry the baby gates and doggie proof the kitchen more....keep the counters clean and take the garbage into the other room when you're not there.

Leave toys, water and things for play and chew.

How many hours a day is the dog left home alone? If it's 7/8 hours get a walker in 1/2 way through the day.

I am sure it will work out :D

Just remember to maybe put doggie beds in the kitchen like under the table or something for them to have some privacy and sense of 'space'


The garbage was absolutly my fault the worst part is that I knew better!
We come home everyday at lunch to let the dogs out and feed her and eat our lunch. Its pretty rushed so we are unable to go for a walk, but we do play some fetch! Perhaps I will give her a chance in the kitchen this afternoon, it has been a couple of months since we last tried. My biggest worry is that she will mow down the gates and use our carpet as the toilet :eek: But last time we tried was her first time with us so she now understands the house rules. Ill talk to bf and see if he is willing to chance it.


Happycats: Paint hey! Never even crossed my mind, Ill have to check into that. Thanks
Sarah

Luba
June 8th, 2005, 01:42 PM
Good luck!

And remember consistency..things rarely go 'perfect' the first, second or third time around....just have a little patience and keep consistent.

Positive rewarding praises when you return home.

Eleni
June 8th, 2005, 01:44 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/Denise_rector_bouchard/Dog_Pee.gif


good luck, keep us updated:)