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Spanking?

lilith_rizel
June 1st, 2005, 06:51 PM
what do you guys think of this subject? Is it right or wrong. James and I decided that the only reason we are going to spank our children is if they have hurt someone really bad, or if they put themselves into danger (running out into the middle of the street while there are cars about, ect.)

CyberKitten
June 1st, 2005, 06:55 PM
I think our laws in Canada should be more like Sweden where spanking is against the law. I have seen way too many so called spanked children in the ER for me to even slightly neutral about this issue. I believe parents need to teach their children good behaviour but it can be done without violence!

Bearsmom
June 1st, 2005, 06:56 PM
Robbie has a nasty habit of biting when he's really ticked off. I whacked him one on the butt (diapered butt, mind you), when he bit my wrist and broke the skin.

Then again, he's also two, so we're learning what works and doesn't with him.

I was spanked as a child and am not a serial killer/damaged emotionally/ etc.

As long as you're not whaling the heck outta them....

kayla
June 1st, 2005, 06:58 PM
i think that spanking is the easy way out. getting your childrens respect and then using the parent dissaproval method works much better from what i've seen. my parents used to spank my oldest brother and he is completely undisciplined now, and has no respect for them even still (he's 31). with the next 3 kids, including myself, they didn't spank, and i know they can still make me feel bad by a look, and we all have much more respect for them. i think spanking teaches that violence, even though it's mild, is an ok way to deal with things. i think parents should set a better example for their children than that.

CyberKitten
June 1st, 2005, 06:59 PM
I am not certain a small whack qualifies as spanking. That happened to me as a child too and I turned out OK for the most part, lol BUT people who spank often and hard need to rethink what they are doing imho!

Jackie467
June 1st, 2005, 07:04 PM
I think it depends on how hard spanking is and on the child. With me I was never spanked because just a stern talking to would stop whatever I was doing (and I wouldn't do it again, I'm a big approval seeker). I was smacked once for telling my mom to shut up when she was yelling at me, it only ever happened once and it wasn't even a smack that hurt it just surprised me so much I never said that agian. on the other hand I have a cousin whos mother never smacked him, not so much as a smack on the hand when he was young. He does not respond to talking to or grounding at all. The state has threatened to take him away because my aunt can't control him (long story). then his dad started spanking him and all the sudden his behavior stopped. It's the only thing that works with him. When I say spanking I mean that there should not be any visible marks or bruising left, just a wack on the butt.

kayla
June 1st, 2005, 07:05 PM
I am not certain a small whack qualifies as spanking. That happened to me as a child too and I turned out OK for the most part, lol BUT people who spank often and hard need to rethink what they are doing imho!

if it's hard enough to hurt, you teach the child that it's ok to cause people or things pain as punishment. if it isn't hard enough to hurt it's not punishment so they are walking away unpunished unless you punish them with your dissapointment or anger in which case why not just do that in the first place?

CyberKitten
June 1st, 2005, 07:08 PM
I did say small whack with the emphasis on the whack - maybe I was being too lighthearted when I made the comment. I was maybe "whacked" twice in my entire life but I do remember it!! I do not think violence of any kind is acceptable with your children, EVER!! I guess by whack I am thinking a slight touch - maybe whack is too loaded a word. Anyway....

lilith_rizel
June 1st, 2005, 07:14 PM
When I say spanking I mean that there should not be any visible marks or bruising left, just a wack on the butt.

That is what I am saying. I was spanked as a kid, and with some things, that is the only way I would learn....when I got to old to spank my parents would try to ground me, talking away all privleges; phone, tv, going outside, ect. and that didn't work well.....

I think in some cases, spanking is ok. I wouldn't even speank our kids hard enough to leave a red mark. Just hard enough for them to no they did wrong. Especially if they are endagering themselves or someone else......

Jackie467
June 1st, 2005, 07:19 PM
some children don't care if your disapointed or angry (I did) but for instance my cousin didn't, it didn't make any diffrence to him if his mother yelled, cried, talked reasonably, anything. Most of our grandparents generation where spanked and they aren't serial killers or anything, I know my parents, grandparents, and great grandparents were all spanked. They respected their parents and loved them, and no they never feared them. I think it depends on what works with the child. If you don't need to spank then definatly don't, but some kids need it.

happycats
June 1st, 2005, 07:26 PM
No (or should I say not any more), we started out thinking it was OK, but when we did spank our son we felt terrible, and it was just a quick fix, and didn't work in the long run :sad:
We also found that our son started hitting other children :eek: .
It's really hard to parent, but the long diffucult way I believe is best, ,not the easy quick fix spank.
I have learned alot watching nanny 911, and super nanny, I have tried alot of their methods, and they really do work!! You don't have to hit, or even raise your voice, it's actually quite amazing considering I have the most stuborn, short tempered child going, or should I say "willfull".
I believe the reason children are "bad" is bad parenting and nothing more.

I ask you this, do you hit your dog to train it ??
If you can train a dog without hitting you can do the same with a child!!!

Bearsmom
June 1st, 2005, 07:26 PM
Mind you, time outs are extremely effective with Robbie (learned THAT one on Supernanny :D ).

I should clarify that when he bit me and broke the skin it was the one and only time I smacked his diapered butt. He learned the biting and hitting thing at daycare (which really annoys me), but he seems to calm down after a day of being at home (the first day at home, he's a wild child).

He's also at the age where he's just starting to express himself, and we're trying to teach him the positive ways of expressing anger.

kayla
June 1st, 2005, 07:40 PM
I ask you this, do you hit your dog to train it ??
If you can train a dog without hitting you can do the same with a child!!!

I was thinking the exact same thing.

If one punishment doesn't work with your child, try something else, if that doesn't work something else, be creative, spanking shouldn't even be an option though! You can be firm without resorting to violence. It is hard to gain a child's respect, but spanking is definitely not the way to do this, it only gains fear. Children will get into trouble no matter what, I really think punishing them with violence for is a bad idea though. Not even so much that the spanking is going to really hurt them, it won't turn them into serial killers and whatnot, but it's the lack dealing with things properly that could hurt them. The parents are a childs main role model. If you use intelligent ways of dealing with your children, they will grow up doing the same when they are faced with a problem later on in life. That's my opinion anyway.

lilith_rizel
June 1st, 2005, 07:42 PM
ok, maybe it isn't the best idea, after reading. What forms of punishment do you guys use???

Safyre
June 1st, 2005, 08:35 PM
I don't agree with spanking, and I don't have my own children, so I can't say what I have done with my own children, as there are none. I did however, work as a nanny for a little while.
With toddlers, time outs worked the best for me. Always make the time out age appropriate. in my time outs, the kid were to sit on the time out chair, with hands in lap for whatever amount of time. if they decided they were going to throw a hissy fit and start crying, then the time out would be in their bedroom, with door closed.
As they get older, I find the best way is to not yell at the child, but if you catch them doing something wrong ... ask them about the beahviour. Give them an example of why they wouldn't want it done to them in words they understand, then explain to them why it is wrong. There are some really good books that you can buy about pushing, sharing, staling... behaviours alot of kids have trouble with.
As teenagers, you get them to write an essay about thier behaviour, what they did wrong, what they could have done better.
*shrugs* thats what I plan to do whenever I have lil ones.

lilith_rizel
June 1st, 2005, 08:45 PM
essays would be a great one! I think now that I am going to try the no spanking method when Judith is older.

Eleni
June 1st, 2005, 09:08 PM
I dont spank my kids,

I prefer not to see others spank their kids, but im not one to judge either.

as long as you arent abusing or neglecting you child its none of my business how you discipline them


Eleni

Joey.E.CockersMommy
June 1st, 2005, 09:44 PM
I will use time outs or take away a toy. I dont spank my kids but have friends that do and I still think they are good parents and they're kids seem okay. I think its when you get out of control that you have a problem, its better to walk away and cool off. One thing I feel is really bad is to spank someones elses kids!

lilith_rizel
June 1st, 2005, 09:50 PM
I agree with spanking other's kids. That is a BIG no no. Do time outs and taking away a toy really work that well?

I guess I could always do what my parents also did with us, during the winter, if we were in trouble, they would send us outside to shovel a 3 foot wide path around our yard, which was 1.5 acres. And during the summer we would have to clean up the storage room in the basement. I hated doing those things. James said that his parents made him pick up rocks and sticks.

twinmommy
June 1st, 2005, 10:01 PM
If we are talking about a swat on the butt, then I won't judge others.

Unfortunately, as Ck said , few parents are actually spanking, it often becomes much more violent than that.

IMO, I wouldn't use spanking to teach any lesson...ESPECIALLY not when you want to teach them not to hit/hurt someone!!

Children learn by observing our example...if you don't want them to be violent don't hit them.

On the flip side, we've all seen some little "buggers" who "deserve a good whack" :rolleyes: but I think that negative attention just seems to cultivate more of the same behaviour.

God knows, I'm no expert. But you can always do better than raising your hand.

iRONKNiGHT
June 1st, 2005, 10:04 PM
Spanking are not for kids! that's a MAJOR NO NO!
however they are for grown up's! LOL!!

Mockingcat
June 1st, 2005, 11:12 PM
Honestly, I was spanked as a child, and if I ever have children, I will probably spank them.

Don't get me wrong, my mother didnt' go insane with it. I can only remember being spanked once in my entire life. And it made a lasting impression on me. She spanked me because I stole a pair of 25 cent earrings in a store when I was 4. But I never stole again, and I knew how important that value was to her.

I'm not goign to stand by and watch someone wail on their kid. There's a huge difference between abuse and spanking. I didn't view it as violence. My mother didn't fly itno a violent rage and beat me. She calmly told me why I was being spanked, and then did so.

I do sort of resent the implication that people are making that parents who spank their children can't deal with children, or are just violent abusive people who can't figure anything else out. My mother is smart, articulate, and intelligent. She always used a variety of suitable punishments when I did something bad. To her, spanking was the ultimate, worst punishment for the worst thing possible.

Lissa
June 1st, 2005, 11:47 PM
I was hit as a child and although I turned out fine, I don't think that I can condone it.

When I was hit, it was because I was being a nasty, smart-mouth little girl (10 years old) and I probably deserved it. But I can never forget the fear that gripped me the instant before I knew I was about to be hit. Even today when I'm having a heated discussion (okay a verbal fight!) and I feel cornered, I get that same fear and it's really not pleasant as an adult to feel like I'm helpless!

I never want to have children but if I ever did, I could see myself resort to spanking so I only hope that if that time comes (hopefully NEVER), I will have more self-control.

Cactus Flower
June 2nd, 2005, 12:10 AM
I am completely against hitting a child. Light or soft, hitting is inappropriate behavior. You can't hit your child, and then tell them it's bad to hit other children, or that it's bad for adults to hit each other, or that it's bad to hit the dog....

Time-out worked well for me.
So did taking away the blessed Game Boy.

melanie
June 2nd, 2005, 12:25 AM
it depends on the kid and your laws. here in oz it is illeagle in some areas, an offense in others and to strike a child above the shoulders is considered assult everywhere.

when i was a kid my mum used to flog me black and blue, it never worked, just made me feel alot more angry, i used to become worse with every hit, i figured i wasnt giving in so jsut got angry and naughtier....

we use the naughty corner and removal of toys and precious possessions as punishment, it sure straightens a 10 yr old out when he looses his game boy advanced for two weeks, we find it really effective. with the younger ones its straight to the corner, nose against the wall (my aunts did this to me as a kid and it was far more effective than a floggin with dads belt, thongs, the jug cord or whatever mum could grab at the time) i absolutly hated it when i upset my aunty, and she would put me to the wall nose touching, it always worked..

a friend of mine smacked his 7yo daughter for using foul language (it was a swipe on the butt, nothing mjr). she told her teacher, and he was taken to the police station and he had to do a 5 week parenting course as punishment, food for thought.

Prin
June 2nd, 2005, 12:43 AM
Do I have to explain the alpha roll again? LOL, I don't have kids, I don't know kids... I do know that my totally unviolent step mother tried EVERYTHING with her son and the only thing that worked was spanking.

I think the threat of it is enough. My dad's fingers were like Italian sausages and when that hand would go in the air... every human ever born behaved a little better for a few seconds...

Daisy's Owner
June 2nd, 2005, 07:12 AM
I wasn't spanked as a kid, and I don't spank. Lead by example. How can you teach a child that it is not ok to hit, if you are hitting them.

The absolute worst punishment I got, and it still sticks with me today was that I was not allowed to go to a sleepover, and I had to go to my friends house before the party, take her present to her, and explain to her why I couldn't go. That was horrible for a 9 year old.

My kids get privelages taken away.

There are clearly defined rules for everyone, and they know immediately if they break a rule, there will be consequences. EVERY TIME. And the punishment needs to fit the severity of the action and the age of the child.


Here are three examples.

My son is a crier. When he doesn't get his own way he sooks and cries. When he gets like that he gets sent to his room until he stops crying.

My step son, thought it was a big joke that he downloaded a virus to our computer that holds all of my husbands business records. He hasn't been on our computer in over a year. Right now, I am of course the big bad evil step mother, but until he realizes (which he still doesn't) the ramifications of what could have happened and maybe some remorse, he won't be on the computer. He's 14, so he should be able to figure it out.

I think this is one of those punishments that is going to stick with my daughter for a very long time. This was at the campground last year. The rule at the campground is Don't make me worry, check in once in a while. And if I have to go looking for you, your in big time trouble. My daughter went off to go swimming on Friday afternoon, a couple of hours later, she hadn't come back. Yup, I had to go looking for her. She had to spend all day Saturday at the camp site. And it was hot. And there must have been about 10 of her friends there that weekend. And she couldn't go swimming or go play, she couldn't leave the site. Her friends could come to the site and play, but she wasn't leaving.

Sorry, that was longer than I had intended it to be. I guess .02 turned into $4.00.

Writing4Fun
June 2nd, 2005, 09:01 AM
We weren't spanked as children - we were just threatened with the shoe (a la Eddie Murphy). :D She'd give us to the count of three, and then reach for the slipper. Just watching Mom bend down was enough to send us running. Looking back now, I remember that she always did it with a grin, so she knew she'd never have to actually throw that slipper, but it was remarkably effective.

Today's version is counting to three. When they're very young, it's "OK, I'll count to three, and then I'll come help you ..." (insert whatever it is you want them to do here, ie. "...help you put that toy away", "...help you get off your brother", etc...). Now that he's a little older and "coming to help him" isn't as much of a threat, it's "OK, I'll count to three, and then it's no more PlayStation for the rest of the week-end" or "no TV tonight". Time outs in the bedroom (with stipulations that there's no TV or toys while in there - just lie on your bed and do nothing) are working really well for the 5 year old these days. Being confined and inactive seems to be the absolute worst punishment for him, so I only use it as a last resort when he's being really evil.

I think the key, as Daisy's Owner has said, is to be consistent and follow through. I used to be very wishy-washy ("Stop doing that or you'll go to your room. Stop it. Stop it now. If you don't stop it right now, you're going straight to your room. I mean it. Stop. Stop it." and 10 minutes later "I mean it, if you don't stop right now..."). Well, he learned that when I said "stop it", it really meant "keep doing it until Mom either gives up or gets mad enough to carry you to your room herself". Give them an option right up front. "Stop it or you're going to your room." And then follow through. If they don't "stop it", then send them to their room. Don't give second chances and don't back down. But you also have to pick your fights. You can't punish them for every little thing they do. Is what they're doing really bad enough to warrant an arguement?

Whew! Hey Daisy's Owner, there's my $4.00 as well! :p

Daisy's Owner
June 2nd, 2005, 10:35 AM
But you also have to pick your fights. You can't punish them for every little thing they do. Is what they're doing really bad enough to warrant an arguement?

Oooh. That's also a really good point. You have to be consistent, but you have to be fair too.

Is it more important that your three your old has on the same colored socks or that he wanted to dress himself?

Princesss04
June 2nd, 2005, 10:50 AM
Growing up we were spanked and when I say spanked I do NOT mean beat! I was never hit in a bad way! I do not see anything wrong with spanking your child as a form of discipline but I think it needs to be done in the right way! Dad always sent us to our room to cool off and he would cool off first! I have always been taught to never spank in anger, I will spank my children but I will not do it when I am mad and I will do it right. What do you all do for a toddler that would try and touch the wood stove do you just say no and let them go touch it or do you smack his little hand and teach him that if you touch that something bad will happen. I have seen children that are abused and that IS NOT spanking that is beating. And I agree that is wrong. But I know with me growing up Dad could have taken everything away with me but I hated to be spanked but my sister he just had to raise his vocie and she was heartbroken but not me. LOL :D So I think it depends on the child but I think no matter the child it has to be done right.

I am sure I will be burned at the stack for my stand. :D :evil:

Princesss04
June 2nd, 2005, 10:51 AM
Oooh. That's also a really good point. You have to be consistent, but you have to be fair too.

Is it more important that your three your old has on the same colored socks or that he wanted to dress himself?


Very good point Daisy! :D

Luvmypit
June 2nd, 2005, 11:04 AM
Ok ok How about washing the mouth out with soap? HAppened to me and never swore again!
I was never put over my moms lap but I was chased up the stairs while my mom swatted at my butt. I never hit anyone in my life (ok one man cause he grabbed my butt)
People obviously have differing opinions. I don't think either is right or wrong. And I don't think its anybodies place to judge on how you parent your children. What works for you works for you. I am completely against though any thing that leaves a mark. I am also very against spanking while angry. I think spanking should be reserved for severe behaviour. I think its only affective when its hardley never or only once... Then it leaves a lasting impression... And I dont think the child walks away and says oh so hitting is ok unless its used regularly and for the wrong reasons.

Well what if the child hits someone is it fair to show them how it feels? I think in this instance I would spank. I think when you say it shows the kid that thats a way to deal with something is bull.. I never thought that, either did my brothers or sister. I always thought something very simple..... I ain't doing that again. And after that the threat of getting smacked was enough and I beleive I was only hit maybe once or twice. Did I fear my parents? No way. Feared them when I was threatened for another smack but its not like I walked around on pins and needles.

I am still torn on whether to do so to my children. I have a 9 year old step daughter with ADD and she lives with me. I haven't hit her at all and trust me she can do things that you just stand there going are you serious... Things I wouldn't dare to do. Or think to do. She also had a rough upbringing with her mom (hit on her face alot) so I wouldn't feel comfortable. I also think after a certain age it isn't appropriate. I have done fine without and probably will never smack a childs butt but I never say never. I use time outs and all that stuff to and you are right it can be effective. But sometimes it is not at all.


I also think the use of the word violence is alot excessive. I feel to call my mom and say hey apparently your a child abuser and violent. I mean come on. Obviously were talking about spanking whether you agree or not. And no I am not talking about the hard, angry smackers. Yes there are those out there I am sure.

nymph
June 2nd, 2005, 11:14 AM
Spanking to me meant a few slaps on the bum, not slapping on the face, not pinching the ears or violent beating. It was meant for discipline, not abuse.

Growing up I was spanked a lot: my usual spanking went like this:
1) spanking
2) discussed why I was spanked
3) wrote down what I would need to do in the future and posted that on the wall

However I do think it differs from child to child, some children are more sensitive, I was not, so I got spanked a lot. My older cousin on the other hand never got spanked even once, she'd cry and say sorry when her parents slightly raised their voice. When I reached teenage, my parents stopped spanking me.

No children of my own yet, so can't comment on that.

kandy
June 2nd, 2005, 12:39 PM
I spanked my son, and I am not an abuser. I was abused as a youngster and I know the difference. I tried all the time outs, taking things away, etc., etc. Never had one iota of effect on my son. He would laugh at me when I tried to reason with him. The ONLY thing that ever got his attention was the spanking. He did not grow up to be a serial killer, delinquent or anything else. He is a very responsible, polite young man and I used to get compliments all the time on how well behaved he was. As far as making a connection between hitting a dog and spanking, you can't reason with a dog but you can tell a child, if you do that - you will be spanked. If the child does it, they get spanked and you remind them why they got spanked.

Guess I'll be on the stake with Princess04.

Princesss04
June 2nd, 2005, 12:57 PM
I spanked my son, and I am not an abuser. I was abused as a youngster and I know the difference. I tried all the time outs, taking things away, etc., etc. Never had one iota of effect on my son. He would laugh at me when I tried to reason with him. The ONLY thing that ever got his attention was the spanking. He did not grow up to be a serial killer, delinquent or anything else. He is a very responsible, polite young man and I used to get compliments all the time on how well behaved he was. As far as making a connection between hitting a dog and spanking, you can't reason with a dog but you can tell a child, if you do that - you will be spanked. If the child does it, they get spanked and you remind them why they got spanked.

Guess I'll be on the stake with Princess04.

That is fine Kandy you can join me! :D :highfive: There is seven other people that are with us they just have not posted about it. I would not want to beat my child but I think you are right about the kids and dog thing. :pawprint:

Daisy's Owner
June 2nd, 2005, 01:18 PM
Out of curiosity. It has been brought up a couple of times that after a certain age, it would be inappropriate to spank. At what age? What form of punishment would/do you use after that age?

happycats
June 2nd, 2005, 01:55 PM
I guess I just don't get it :confused: and please don't flame me, buuuut

Why is it NOT ok to hit a dog, but it's OK to hit a child??
If you hit anyone else besides your own child, you would be charged with assault, why is that, and how is that right?

There are ways around hitting, that are actually much more effective then hitting. It's just harder to do it that way, I guess that's why some prefer the easy way out (hitting).

Cactus Flower
June 2nd, 2005, 02:55 PM
I echo everything that Daisy'sOwner said.

And Happycats poses a really good question.

For those of you that are on the fence, please don't hit your children. You can't take it back if you decide later that it is wrong.

Just a friendly suggestion: Reflect back to what was posted on the "why do men like to punch walls?" thread. I think it was unanimous that hitting is wrong- everyone was concerned that the poster was going to get hit by her boyfriend, and said that she deserves more respect than that, and should NOT have to live in fear of being hit. Do our children not deserve the same respect? Why can't we apply the same advice to our parenting that we gave her there- to talk it out, communicate, express in a healthy way?

This is a heated topic, and I'm afraid that emotions are going to be running very high. What's more sensitive than having your parenting methods questioned or challenged? Let's all remember, we don't have to agree about everything to still care about and respect each other :grouphug: .

Jackie467
June 2nd, 2005, 03:11 PM
I don't believe the not hitting the dog thing and child thing can be compared. I mean think about it, when your dog pees on the floor and you don't catch him in the act do you yell at him? No you simply take him outside have him go and then praise him. Now your child sneaks into the kittchen to have the cookie before dinner you told him not to, you don't catch him in the act but you count the cookies and know he is the only one that could have taken it, do you yell at him? Yes, because children have reasoning, dogs don't. If you tell the dog there will be a consequence for his actions he doesn't understand so you can't punish him for doing it, but if you tell your child not to do something they can understand and know that if they do it they will be punished. Completely different.

There are ways around hitting, that are actually much more effective then hitting. It's just harder to do it that way, I guess that's why some prefer the easy way out (hitting).

What are these ways? My cousin was put in time out. didn't work as soon as time out was over he was back to doing exactly what he was put in time out for. There was a point when my cousin had everything taken away from him toys, tv, friends, phone, computer, video games, even the stuffed animals he slept with. didn't work he ended up staying that way for 3 month because he would continually do bad things (the main thing was hitting kids at school) before my aunt gave up on that method. before they tried all this they were just talking to him telling him how disapointed they were in him, how angry it made them, why it was wrong to do, and trying to reason with him about how would it feel if someone did it to him? Didn't work, next day would be back to the same thing. Then when he was 8 only 8 the state threatened to take him away for beating up a child very badly, he was sent to a military school for a year after that and then was sent home. and started right back to what he was doing before. at this point my aunt was at the end of her rope so my uncle started spanking him at 9 years old, we all thought that was too old to spank but low and behold it worked. He was spanked twice and that was it, he stopped hitting the kids at school. Some children need spanking unfortunetly, sometimes nothing else works not even military school.

Princesss04
June 2nd, 2005, 03:11 PM
This is a heated topic, and I'm afraid that emotions are going to be running very high. What's more sensitive than having your parenting methods questioned or challenged? Let's all remember, we don't have to agree about everything to still care about and respect each other :grouphug: .[/QUOTE]

You are exactly right CF! I still respect anyone that takes a stand against not spanking as much as the stand I take. I think that everyone has a right to their own parenting skills. I take my stand because of the stand I take in my church and I use principals that our church stands on as the Biblical stand but that is where I get my view from. I do not think that anyone is wrong on here and think there is alot of good points. :D I do know one thing something has changed in the way we are raising our children! Look at the generation differences (in crome and teen violence, and sex, etc) from now to back when our grandparents were little.There is something wrong and something missing! I am not saying that it is the spanking thing just that there is some reason kids are getting into more trouble now than what they did back than.

Writing4Fun
June 2nd, 2005, 03:41 PM
Some children need spanking unfortunetly, sometimes nothing else works not even military school.
Sometimes, as with anything else in life, there are extreme cases that don't follow the general rules and require alternate methods. But it's a little disappointing how many people choose to spank as a first resort, not as a last.

Look at the generation differences (in crome and teen violence, and sex, etc) from now to back when our grandparents were little.There is something wrong and something missing!
Didn't I read in another thread not too long ago that each generation thinks the next is way worse than their own was? :D I can tell you that my grandparents were completely incensed that my mother wanted to go to an Elvis concert. My parents were terrified of what their sons were learning from artists like Kiss and Alice Cooper. And I'm growing gray hair at the mere thought of what my sons will look like when they become teenagers (as I look over my 15 year old nephew with his lip ring, black and red eyeliner and the red fishnet sleeves sticking out of his black t-shirt). Is something missing from society? Probably - most likely many things. I couldn't tell you what, though. :confused: :( Is the crime rate really worse? Or is it just because we're hearing about it more, with TV and the internet available to us? I forget who said this, but I read a quote that went something like, "For the first time in history, children are hearing about events before adults have the chance to sensor it." Maybe desensitisation is the problem??

Cactus Flower
June 2nd, 2005, 03:53 PM
Jackie, if your cousin were my child, I would have probably gotten him professional help- if he was truly that difficult to manage. It's obvious he had some problems. I still would not hit him, and have him behave out of fear rather than respect for me.

Princesss04
June 2nd, 2005, 03:58 PM
Jackie, if your cousin were my child, I would have probably gotten him professional help- if he was truly that difficult to manage. It's obvious he had some problems. I still would not hit him, and have him behave out of fear rather than respect for me.

My dad spanked me and I respect! I know that he loved me is the reason he did it. :D I do not think I was abused as a child! I think that he discipled me because he loved me and I respect him for that I did not fear him in a bad way! I think that every child shoule fear their parents to an certain point. Not a bad fear like they will kill me but a fear that if I mess up they will punish me. I was never afarid to make a mistake just afarid to do something that I knew was wrong. :)

Daisy's Owner
June 2nd, 2005, 04:05 PM
This is a heated topic, and I'm afraid that emotions are going to be running very high. What's more sensitive than having your parenting methods questioned or challenged? Let's all remember, we don't have to agree about everything to still care about and respect each other :grouphug: .

I couldn't agree more. I am finding this a very interesting topic for discussion, I wouldn't want anyone's feelings to get hurt or to have the thread closed. So, if I say anything that comes across even remotely mean or nasty, call me on it, so I can apologize and correct. I'm only interested in discussion, not telling anyone they are wrong.

Alright back to discussing.

Jackie, that is a good point, dogs do not reason, younger children are not able to reason either. All a two year old knows is that mommy caused them pain.

Are you going to spank your child for taking a cookie that you didn't see them take. What if you counted wrong and the child actually didn't take a cookie.

Why is it ok to spank our children, and it's not ok for them to hit other kids, or for adults to hit other adults?

I do know one thing something has changed in the way we are raising our children! Look at the generation differences (in crome and teen violence, and sex, etc) from now to back when our grandparents were little.There is something wrong and something missing! I am not saying that it is the spanking thing just that there is some reason kids are getting into more trouble now than what they did back than.

That is for sure true. I attibute part of this to , no actually, alot of this to the media. Generations ago teens got their information from other like minded teens within their community instead of from video games and MTV and R rated movies. Family was more important than what fad or designer jeans so and so is wearing. I really do think families spent more time together before and now we have TV, video games, and computers to occupy our children instead of family time. I am guilty of this as well.

happycats
June 2nd, 2005, 04:09 PM
CF, you are soo right, and there are no hard feelings here, we are all here to make friends and learn from one another.

I have another question, why do you not think twice about going to a trainer or dog behaviour specialist, when you dog has "issues".

Can you not give your child the same consideration and respect ?? and see a specialist, or take parenting classes??

You should learn and try everything and anything (go to the library, get videos) "besides" hitting your child, you should go through great lenghths to avoid hitting.

I still believe hitting iss being used as the easy way out!!

Jackie467
June 2nd, 2005, 04:20 PM
Jackie, if your cousin were my child, I would have probably gotten him professional help- if he was truly that difficult to manage. It's obvious he had some problems. I still would not hit him, and have him behave out of fear rather than respect for me.

he did have professional help, he got therapy while in military school. Both were court ordered. They could find nothing wrong with him. (he was a very spoiled child)

Luvmypit
June 2nd, 2005, 04:36 PM
OK OK
So no one answered my question is washing a childs mouth out with soap abuse?

I got this when I swore. Now do I think its ok to walk around washing peoples mouths out with soap?

And If your argument is that a spanked child is going to start hitting others then are they going to hit you too? Point is a child can distinguish between a parent disciplining and hitting another child. I just think the arguement can be made in both directions.
And I dont think anyone here said that that is their preferred method of discipline. I am sure no one said that.
And honestly no one knows what each parent goes through or how their child reacts... So I think saying its the easy way out is quite judgmental no?.. Just a thought so we can keep this discussion free of judgement but rather just discuss.

I do not believe my mom was taking the easy way out as I had many forms of discipline. Sitting in corners, toys taken away, grounded.... My point is I don't see any adverse affects of spanking on a child that has been spanked a few times in their lives. Maybe so on a child that that was there main form of discipline.

Jackie467
June 2nd, 2005, 04:36 PM
I agree it is a heated argument, but I want everyone to know that anything I saw is not ment in any mean way, just debating. And no matter what anyone else says (unless of course it's ment to be mean) will change my oppinion of anyone here in any way.

As far as young children, yes they do have understanding, I think people underestamate them. If you believe that then no matter if you catch them in the act or not they won't understand right from wrong. spanking isn't ment to use on a 1 year old 3 hours after they have done someting, it's ment for children who can understand why they are being spanked. And as far as miscounting cookies I was just using that as an example, if you don't like that then say you find a line of crumbs all the way to the child and they have cookie smeared on their face, pretty hard to say they didn't do it then. :D

Jackie467
June 2nd, 2005, 04:39 PM
as far as washing a childs mouth out with soap I don't think it's abuse, but not something I really have any experience with. It only happened to me once by my grandmother when I was about 5, needless to say I didn't sware again. I don't know if i'll use that method when I have kids, but then again I think it depends on the child.

Luvmypit
June 2nd, 2005, 04:45 PM
I think this discussion is going quite well truthfully.
I think everyone here knows there are no ill feelings. To each their own.

nymph
June 2nd, 2005, 04:48 PM
My dad spanked me and I respect! I know that he loved me is the reason he did it. :D I do not think I was abused as a child! I think that he discipled me because he loved me and I respect him for that I did not fear him in a bad way! I think that every child shoule fear their parents to an certain point. Not a bad fear like they will kill me but a fear that if I mess up they will punish me. I was never afarid to make a mistake just afarid to do something that I knew was wrong. :)

Same with me. My parents spanked me when I was younger, but I still respect them, I know they LOVE me and they always made clear on WHY they spanked me, not just spanking alone.

I think there is a line between spanking and actually beating a child, perhaps we are not comparing apples with apples.

CF, no hard feelings, everyone's entitled to his/her own opinions. I can certainly respect that and perhaps look at the issue from angles that I have never thought before. :grouphug:

Daisy's Owner
June 2nd, 2005, 05:18 PM
I had this huge post written and I just deleted it because at the end of it, I asked this question, so I thought instead of yammering on, I would just ask the question.

What would a child have to do, that warrants a spanking?

happycats
June 2nd, 2005, 05:26 PM
I don't want to offend or get flamed, this is a friendly discussion, about our views on spanking.

I don't believe in "bad" children, behind every so called bad child there is bad parenting involved!!

Jackie you say your cousin was bad, and then go on to say he was very spoiled, so basically it was his parents fault he was that way.

Children are not born bad, we make them that way through bad parenting,

how many parents can truly say they went to child behavioral specialists, read all the books and took all the advise, tried everything before hitting??
I believe the answer would be very few :sad:

Our parents and grandparents spanked because alot of them didn't know any better, this is the year 2005, where we have a better education, and way more resources at our finger tips, so we should know better!

Just for fun why don't you watch "nanny 911" they can turn the most horrible rotten, awful (the worst behaviour you have ever seen)child into an angel, and it's not what they do to the child,. it's always what they teach the parents! There is never any hitting or yelling involved!!

sorry another question :o If your spouse misbehaves do you hit him/her??
If not why??

All I am trying to say, is this little person is your flesh and blood, who you love more then life itself, who you would die and even kill for, so how can you raise a hand to someone you love that much ?

Lizzie
June 2nd, 2005, 05:31 PM
Okay, I'm ready to post! I choose that YES it is okay to spank. However, I want to make this very clear that I do NOT mean beat, kick, punch or assult a child. I mean a gentle yet firm reminder that whatever the act was that was done, was wrong. I also want to mention that I do NOT think that spanking should be a first resort.

For that matter, spanking should only come after all other attempts have died out. For example, your child is told to stop throwing rocks at other kids in the park. You ask your child nicely, explaining why the behaviour is wrong. Your child says okay but then returns to throwing the rocks at another child. Now, you decide that it's time for the park *fun* to end and take your child home. He/she is mad and is losing out on the park because of the behaviour--also something I would explain to the child. bad behaviour=less fun.

Now, you're at home and the child is out front playing with the next door neighbour's kid or dog and he/she decides to again throw rocks. NOW I would resort to spanking.

That's my view...

As far as what the child needs to do to warrant a spank...well...i think that's a personal decision that needs to be weighed at the time. It would depend on the behaviour the child is capable of...

glasslass
June 2nd, 2005, 05:32 PM
OK, this is coming from someone who never had children, so of course, I'm an expert and know everything about it! LOL! Seems to me that parenting has become a mess of phychological theories. Kids have never been so messed up. Whatever happened to good common sense, setting good examples, and teaching accountability and responsibility? Seems so many parents today think monitoring the TV programs and making sure that kids are sitting down watching "approved" cartoons, etc. Do you watch those cartoons? They're full of violence! TV has become a convenient babysitter. Why don't parents turn it off completely and spend time with their kids doing something fun and constructive? Seems like having kids is making a choice. They can do their "me" thing after the kids are older. Quantity of time IS quality time too!

Lizzie
June 2nd, 2005, 05:36 PM
I've got to pipe in about this Nanny 911 stuff...I've seen it mentioned a few times. While I enjoy the show and agree with some of the things they do, I have a real problem with the way it ends....by this I mean that it leaves people thinking that these families have been fixed.

We only saw them when the cameras were on. We never see any follow ups to see if the families kept on this way....perhaps they didn't....we just don't know.

Also, I have to agree that there are too many bad parents out there. It's rather ridiculous how bad kids are....and by kids I mean people 20 and younger right about now!! Part of the problem has to do with daycare...and having two working parents....no offense to anyone who is in this situation but it does pose some real parenting problems that many people can't overcome. They compensate for missing time with their children by spoiling them and letting guilt allow their children to get away with things....

melanie
June 2nd, 2005, 05:52 PM
luvmypit, you just brought back some funny memories of mum shoving bitso f soap into my mouth as i gaged over the sink, it was soap for swearing, and for smartmouths you got

A TABLESPOON OF KEENS CURRY POWDER (a strong brond of pwd), it used to burn that stuff :eek: and the old @#%$^ would stand there and hold your mouth shut, oooowwww. needless to say every time she left the house we would find the curry powder and throw it out, she would always have more stashed, shes smart my mum :p

it didnt matterwhat they did, i woudl not take it. some kids are jsut very strong likethat.

actually when mum was lost for punishment she would drive to the childrens home and threaten to leave me there, once she actually made me sit on the step and drove around the block. (makeing me sit there did work for a few weeks).

so ther are a few ideas for youi, i personally dont think their very humane but i was a handful to say the least :D

but as daisyowner said, you must have rules and defined boundaries before you can punish, even if its jsut a list of things on the fridge, like being kind, and being polite.

oh and if you do spank dont do it in public, recently a woman i know spanked in the supermarket car park (it was a swipe on the bum, the little girl had kicked her in the stomach), someone took her registration details and rang the police, she was charged and the police took out an aprehended violence order against her on behalf ofthe child, the kid is 4yo. she even had to go to courty, poor bugger. now i think that is going too far, i mean realyl is a parent not allowed to punish anymore (i may not agree but each parent should have a right to raise their kids how theyu see fit, as long as its not extreme or abusive.)

Daisy's Owner
June 2nd, 2005, 06:12 PM
say you find a line of crumbs all the way to the child and they have cookie smeared on their face, pretty hard to say they didn't do it then.

I'd be too busy laughing my a$$ off to spank or yell at this. :D

Now, you're at home and the child is out front playing with the next door neighbour's kid or dog and he/she decides to again throw rocks. NOW I would resort to spanking.

Why couldn't you take away their most prized possession? You took away the park. meh, I was done anyway. You took away the TV, meh, there's nothing on anyway, I can't go outside, meh, it's raining anyway. You took away my gameboy, meh, I've been playing that game for so long now, it's boring. :eek: NOOOOOOOOO, not Barbies dream house!!!!!! It has to mean something. It's not consequences, if it isn't consequential.

The soap in the mouth for swearing. I have said a bad word or two in front of the kids. I'm hoping that I have taught my kids well enough that there are things that are just not acceptable for kids to do. Do I think it's abuse? Probably. Have I threatened to use it? Only once. Once they were old enough to understand the consequences I laid it on the line that I would not hesitate to use soap if I had to. Would I actually do it? Never. But I have followed through on EVERY single punishment that they have ever recieved. So, they don't doubt for one second that I would do it.

happycats
June 2nd, 2005, 06:12 PM
We only saw them when the cameras were on. We never see any follow ups to see if the families kept on this way....perhaps they didn't....we just don't know.

But it's the amazing transformation you see, It proves that it really does work, If things fall apart after the show, it's because the parents have gone back to their old ways


Also, I have to agree that there are too many bad parents out there. It's rather ridiculous how bad kids are....and by kids I mean people 20 and younger right about now!! Part of the problem has to do with daycare...and having two working parents....no offense to anyone who is in this situation but it does pose some real parenting problems that many people can't overcome. They compensate for missing time with their children by spoiling them and letting guilt allow their children to get away with things....

I totall agree, I worked in a daycare, so I have seen it first hand!!

Safyre
June 2nd, 2005, 06:19 PM
I was a handful as a child,. My dad, while he was still married to my mom, would abuse me. my mom, only lost her temper once with me.
If I have a kid like myself, they are going to tell me the kid has ADD. No, they are just hyper active, have an active mind and need to do things. There is a difference. I still am hyperactive, my mind doesn't stop. The response to this should not be spanking or medication, but just plain old excersize, activites and parental time.
I have seen some kids that need notihng more than a smack in the butt to corect them... but I choose to try different avenues first.

happycats
June 2nd, 2005, 06:24 PM
I'd be too busy laughing my a$$ off to spank or yell at this. :D

Me too!



Why couldn't you take away their most prized possession? You took away the park. meh, I was done anyway. You took away the TV, meh, there's nothing on anyway, I can't go outside, meh, it's raining anyway. You took away my gameboy, meh, I've been playing that game for so long now, it's boring. :eek: NOOOOOOOOO, not Barbies dream house!!!!!! It has to mean something. It's not consequences, if it isn't consequential.

every child has it's currency, once you figure out what it is, you can pretty much keep them in line ;)

The soap in the mouth for swearing. I have said a bad word or two in front of the kids. I'm hoping that I have taught my kids well enough that there are things that are just not acceptable for kids to do. Do I think it's abuse? Probably. Have I threatened to use it? Only once. Once they were old enough to understand the consequences I laid it on the line that I would not hesitate to use soap if I had to. Would I actually do it? Never. But I have followed through on EVERY single punishment that they have ever recieved. So, they don't doubt for one second that I would do it.

My son has pretty much said every cuss word, only because he has heard from someone else (yeah sometimes from me :o ) So I should put soap in his mouth ?? I chose to sit him down and explain it to him instead, needless to say my son does not swear ;)

It's strange how when someone posted how they used chilli pepper to stop a pet from biting, almost everyone here jumped all over the poster saying it was horrible and she was a terrible pet owner, but some of these same people see nothing wrong with putting soap or hot pepper in their childs mouth :confused: . Just an observation ;)

Daisy's Owner
June 2nd, 2005, 07:51 PM
It's strange how when someone posted how they used chilli pepper to stop a pet from biting, almost everyone here jumped all over the poster saying it was horrible and she was a terrible pet owner, but some of these same people see nothing wrong with putting soap or hot pepper in their childs mouth :confused: . Just an observation ;)

I have been actually thinking the same thing. If you put a dog in every place in this entire thread that said children, you can actually see a weird comparison. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, we treat our dogs better than we treat our children.

Oh dear Safyre, I hope I have interpreted your post correctly, because I could go on and on about what I think about ADD. Talk about a psychological mess. I am having a hard time parenting, so my child has ADD. Give me a break. Talk about excuses. That is probably the biggest excuse in the 21st century. Don't get me wrong. I am NOT dismissing this. I do think that there maybe out there children that do have an attention deficit disorder, but unfortunately, my non professional experience has been that these kids need rules and discipline, not ridalin and excuses.

Safyre
June 2nd, 2005, 08:22 PM
Daisy's Owner - Yes, you understood my post correctly.
I do not have ADD, nor have I ever had ADD. HOWEVER, I see kids that were the same as me as kids, and they are called ADD or ADHD, and it drives me nuts.
I could go on and on as well, no worries, we probably feel the same way ;-) I feel parents need to spend more time with thier children. Activities, talking, Reading, Sharing...

happycats
June 2nd, 2005, 08:34 PM
I have been actually thinking the same thing. If you put a dog in every place in this entire thread that said children, you can actually see a weird comparison. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, we treat our dogs better than we treat our children.



Did you check out the "hitting your pet" poll?? so far not one person would hit their dog.

doggy lover
June 2nd, 2005, 08:44 PM
Nope same as pets hands off, besides that my kids are bigger than me now.

Writing4Fun
June 2nd, 2005, 08:47 PM
Seeing as how I am not a medical professional, I don't think I'm qualified to determine whether or not a child has ADD or ADHD or whatever it is. One of my nieces was diagnosed ADD, and her brother is probably headed that way, too. My mother is a great skeptic. She thinks they simply need more discipline. But who are we to say? If they've been tested by medical professionals, why do we think we know better? I think there are more and more kids being diagnosed these days because a) doctors now know what they're dealing with and can put a name to it, and b) environmental factors have increased the incidents of occurence. Heck, maybe we were ADD as children, but we just didn't know it!

Joey.E.CockersMommy
June 2nd, 2005, 09:30 PM
So this may be a bit off topic but it is somewhat along the lines of discipline from another authority figure. My son was taking swimming lessons and some of the things the teacher did made me real uneasy.
First off my son does not know how to swim but will put his head under water and try to glide he was put in a class with level one and two kids.
First incident they had too wear life jackets no problem, afterwards he had problems undoing the buckle to get it off he was standing on the pool deck and the teacher literally grabbed him yanked him about 3 feet and undid his jacket.

Next lesson they had to go from the small pool into the big pool and my son was crying and scarred instead of being sypathetic and scarred she said you are going in the pool and forced him in.

She then complained to me that my son was unfocused and not trying, which I know he was.

The next lesson my husband took him and I told him my concerns he said I was probably over reacting until he watched the lesson. Again they had to go in the big pool, my son was scarred and crying she forced him to swim the width of a pool with a float belt on and screamed at him the whole way "get your face in the water, your not done yet" on and on no encouraging words at all. After that my huband removed him from the lessons and got a full refund she is black listed from ever teaching our kids again but she is still teaching because I see her at the pool.

So now my son is taking lessons again and it is taking alot for the other teacher to get him in the water she is a much better teacher not sure why this other one is even still there she has had other complaints before.

doggy lover
June 2nd, 2005, 09:48 PM
I would never allow someone to bully my children like that. As I have said before I have a quick temper when it involves my family or my pet and my mouth gets away on me. That teacher would have got a mouth full. Once a woman came up to my daughter when she was little and started pointing her finger in her face, (my daughter is tiny and would never upset anyone this woman was blaming her for something she didn't do) anyways I told the woman that if she wanted to keep her finger she better put it someplace else to put it in nice terms. I would never say my kids are saints but they are good kids and this woman was way out of line, she also didn't know that I happened to be sitting outside at the time and heard what she had said to my daughter. She soon shut her bloody big mouth and pissed off. Don't let anyone talk to your child anyway other than you would speak to them yourself, my kids always know that I am there when they need me, mouth and all.

Sneaky2006
June 2nd, 2005, 09:48 PM
I have been actually thinking the same thing. If you put a dog in every place in this entire thread that said children, you can actually see a weird comparison. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, we treat our dogs better than we treat our children.

Oh dear Safyre, I hope I have interpreted your post correctly, because I could go on and on about what I think about ADD. Talk about a psychological mess. I am having a hard time parenting, so my child has ADD. Give me a break. Talk about excuses. That is probably the biggest excuse in the 21st century. Don't get me wrong. I am NOT dismissing this. I do think that there maybe out there children that do have an attention deficit disorder, but unfortunately, my non professional experience has been that these kids need rules and discipline, not ridalin and excuses.I think ADD/ADHD is misdiagnosed, just as any other symptomatic diseases/disorders. "I am having a hard time parenting, so my child has ADD." Well my son has ADD, and a diagnosis does not happen that way, not even close. He had to be evaluated many times, conferences with his teachers, other family members and us also. It is not taken lightly and doesn't have much to do with "being bad".

Jackie467
June 3rd, 2005, 12:36 AM
I just wanted to clarify my definition of spoiled. I was spoiled as a child because my parents always had time for me and took me places with them and bought me a lot of stuff (but not everything I wanted), I in no way turned out bad because of it (at least I don't think so :p ). A not spoiled child is Tomas, only his dad worked and barely spoke english so didn't have a good job, only worked for 6 bucks an hour and was taking care of a wife and 4 kids on that so needless to say Tomas didn't get a whole lot of anything. There was a point where all the kids (him and his three sisters) slept in one room and ate beans and eggs for EVERY meal. That is not spoiled.

Daisy's Owner
June 3rd, 2005, 07:00 AM
I do believe there are legitimate cases of ADD. I just think that many cases are misdiagnosed as the easy way out.

I just wanted to clarify my definition of spoiled. I was spoiled as a child because my parents always had time for me and took me places with them and bought me a lot of stuff (but not everything I wanted), I in no way turned out bad because of it (at least I don't think so ).

That doesn't sound spoiled, that sounds loved. To me spoiled would be getting everything you wanted, whenever you wanted. Maybe that's spoiled rotten.

Researchbulls, that sounds awful. Nobody's child should be treated like that. I hope your son eventually learns to swim.

I was thinking about this last night. Do you discipline other peoples children? or do you let other people discipline your children? I don't think discipline is quite the right word, discipline implies punishment, I don't think anybody should be punnishing someone else's child, unless they are in your direct care ie babysitting, and even then I would expect the punishment to be in line with my own beliefs, so I guess I mean do you correct children.

I will tell a child that they shouldn't be doing something, and I would hope that if someone saw my child doing something they shouldn't, that they would correct them as well.

happycats
June 3rd, 2005, 07:33 AM
OK so let me get this straight, and please correct me if I am wrong, and I am not angry or upset, or trying to flame, just trying to understand :D

If my boss smacks my butt, because I screw up my work, thats "sexual assault"

If a stranger on the street smacks me, because I cut him off, thats "assault"

If my husband smacks me, because I went out drinking instead of coming home, thats "spousal abuse"

If I smack me dog out on the street, because he lunges at someone, that's "cruelty to animals"

If I smack my child, because he is not listening to me, that's "OK" :confused:

Some here say it's OK because the child understands why he's getting smacked, yet in my fisrt 3 examples, there is understanding there, and it's "not OK". Someone please explain! :confused:

mona_b
June 3rd, 2005, 09:25 AM
If one punishment doesn't work with your child, try something else, if that doesn't work something else, be creative, spanking shouldn't even be an option though! You can be firm without resorting to violence. It is hard to gain a child's respect, but spanking is definitely not the way to do this, it only gains fear. Children will get into trouble no matter what, I really think punishing them with violence for is a bad idea though. Not even so much that the spanking is going to really hurt them, it won't turn them into serial killers and whatnot, but it's the lack dealing with things properly that could hurt them. The parents are a childs main role model. If you use intelligent ways of dealing with your children, they will grow up doing the same when they are faced with a problem later on in life. That's my opinion anyway.

I so totaly agree with this.

I got the so called "smack" when I was a child.So did my brother and sisters.Well that "smack" turned into worse things.It turned into being hit with the wooden spoon,belt,electrical cord and whatever else my mom could get her hands on.We got it even if we told the truth.She NEVER listened to US.I promised myself that if I ever had kids,I would NEVER do this to them.And guess what,I didn't.I NEVER layed a hand on my daughter.I talked to her in a calm voice.I made her understand right from wrong.If she kept on touching something she wasn't supposed to,I gave her 2 chances,the third time was a time out.She then seemed to realize that if she didn't listen,it was a time out.And that ment time away from Mommy.And she didn't like that.As she got a bit older,I took her favorite things away from her.Her favorite toy,favorite colouring book.What ever was her favorite.If we had plans to go to the park,and if she acted up,she was told the trip to the park would be cancelled.I can honestly say she was a good kid.She never had a temper tantrum if she couldn't have something.We could go out to a sit down dinner quietly.And this was me doing raising her on my own.I was a single mom since her birth.She is now 18.Doesn't smoke,doesn't do drugs and has great friends.We are very close.She can come to me for anything.

I'm sorry to say,but many times the smacking does go to far.And it turns into abuse.And I have many calls to them.I remember my first call to one.The child was around 3.And believe it or not,it was around the corner from me.Her lifeless body was in the crib.This poor little girl was abused for the longest time.And her poor little body just couldn't take it anymore.And there are many of these cases out there.And I have seen my share of them.... :sad:

nymph
June 3rd, 2005, 09:48 AM
What would a child have to do, that warrants a spanking?

These are what I still remember why I was spanked:
-bullying other children
-stealing money from my parents

Safyre
June 3rd, 2005, 10:20 AM
I believe there are true cases of ADD, and my post was not meant to upset anyone.
I live in a low income area, w/ teenage moms, and somehow, all of thier children have ADD or ADHD and are on Ritalin.(then comes the break ins to steal the ritalin by older kids, pre teens and teens) I don't think that this is possible for all the children to truly have ADD. I know of one mom that went to the docotr becasue she couldn't control her child, told the doc all the symptoms of ADD just toget Ritalin.
Dr.s give it out too easy, in my experience

Cactus Flower
June 3rd, 2005, 11:07 AM
Again, really good questions, HappyCats! You should be a professional question-asker. Oh, I guess that would be a lawyer :D ?

Mona, I had to switch which item to take away over the years, too (for punishment). I remember a time when taking the blue Power Ranger away was akin to the end of the world! Then it was the Game Boy. My son is only allowed to watch television on the weekends (which is a big deal, because television was never allowed at all before now), so that is a special thing to him, and now I revoke t.v privileges.

You have to find out what will be most effective, and that will change over time.

kandy
June 3rd, 2005, 01:24 PM
I wouldn't punish or correct someone else's child - unless the child was in my care and the parent knew that I am not above a spanking. I feel that I must repeat myself that spanking and abuse are two totally different things - if a parent can't spank without it escalating, then they shouldn't spank at all. I think I always felt worse after spanking my son than he did, but he did not care if I made him spend every waking moment in his room with no toys, no tv, no friends, etc., etc., he didn't even care if he was made to do yard work, etc., etc., I found that the ONLY thing that got his attention was spanking - and I have used a wooden spoon or a paddle - never an electrical cord or anything like that. For a young toddler (under 4) I would not spank, but I would swat the butt or slap (lightly) the hand. As far as what would result in a spanking, how about trying to set the house on fire? How about breaking into the neighbor's camper and trying to set it on fire?? My son learned to be a fire bug from a neighbor kid, who he was banned from seeing after the first fire attempt - but it still took him awhile to get out of the arson mentality. I would take him to every site of a house fire to show him what would happen, explain to him that the people who lived there didn't have a house anymore - that the kids lost all their toys, etc., etc., didn't faze him at all. We'd get home, and he'd try to set something else on fire. He figured out that the water heater had a small flame on it and would light little pieces of paper on fire and then try to light bigger things on fire. I tried all the time outs, taking things away, reasoning, etc. Nothing worked except spanking. As far as being a bad parent and that's why my kid needed spanking, don't agree with that one either. In a perfect world, my husband would've made enough money for us to live on without me working and then I could've home schooled my kid and made him stay by my side all day so that I could keep him from learning bad behavior from other kids - but *sigh* no perfect world here. Kids need boundaries, rules and discipline. Whatever form that discipline takes is up to the parents.

happycats
June 3rd, 2005, 01:47 PM
Again, really good questions, HappyCats! You should be a professional question-asker. Oh, I guess that would be a lawyer :D ?



Ok I now know for sure I watch to much Judge judy! :) .....and joe Brown..and Judge Mathis..and divorce court...... :o

Going to have to seriously consider cutting back some ;)

I was just trying to see peoples reasoning behind spanking, and I used to firmly believe in spanking before having a child, and I even tried spanking!
I hated it, for me it was hurtful, terrible thing to be doing to someone I love so much, and I never hit my cats! So basically I felt if I could correct my cat's without hitting, I could correct my son without hitting as well.

Writing4Fun
June 3rd, 2005, 02:16 PM
I found that the ONLY thing that got his attention was spanking - and I have used a wooden spoon or a paddle - never an electrical cord or anything like that. For a young toddler (under 4) I would not spank, but I would swat the butt or slap (lightly) the hand.
OK, now I have to ask - you said you would not spank a child under 4, but you would swat the butt. What is your definition of spanking, then, if it isn't a swat on the butt? :confused:

BeagleMum
June 3rd, 2005, 02:24 PM
I have just heard of too many cases where a spanking turns into a beating. Sometimes some people don't know where to draw the line.

Luvmypit
June 3rd, 2005, 04:19 PM
I have a step daughter that lives me and has ADD. Before she was on medication she got all D's and was suspended twice for bullying (would have been more but they were nice enough to allow us to seek a medical opinion) in Grade 2. We took away everything.... Time outs.... Nothing deterred her. I agree though that there are parents and doctors use as an excuse.
I was a ADD skeptic also and said no way is she taking meds. NO WAY. Well 2 suspensions later ...
She does not take meds during summer time, after school or weekends. If it helps her concentrate in school and make friends more easily and stop disturbing the class then I decided it was a neccasity for her. At least for now. I ask her all the time how she feels about the medication and she says she feels good because she isn't the bad one in her class anymore and she can pay attention something even she was saying was close to impossble for her. AT home off meds you can tell she is not taking in what you say to her and she is often confused walking around the house... sitting , standing... fidgeting. Aggressive with the dog (poor guy) but god he tolerates her real well. She loses dog privelages often because she is so rough. She is overly talkative, bounces off the wall.
Now gr. 3 I have been called maybe once or twice rather then every week. Her marks are like any other 9 year olds and she is soooooo much more confident.

She has been to 1 behavioural specialist and 2 doctors. All said she has ADD. So I am pretty confident she was rightly diagnosed.

Over the summer we are going paying for her to be assessed and treated at The Listening Centre so we are hoping she won't need meds after that. Cross you fingers.

As for all the comparisons sexual assault is totally different and a child certainly doesn't equate being spanked with anything sexual. And in all instances you are talking about grown people. I certainly wouldn't ask the owner of the other car to lean over my knee and explain to him why he deserves a spanking... These are simply not comparable. Maybe the dog is a good question as atleast both child and dog are expected to be controlled or cared for by an adult. Where as in all other incidents these are grown independant people responsible for their own actions.

kandy
June 3rd, 2005, 04:43 PM
OK, now I have to ask - you said you would not spank a child under 4, but you would swat the butt. What is your definition of spanking, then, if it isn't a swat on the butt? :confused:

A swat would be one smack, like if you were smacking a mosquito that was biting you - not even that hard - more for the noise than anything. A spanking is harder than a smack and involved more than one - normally two, but it depended on the crime. And I have to say that I never smacked my kid anywhere but on the butt. My stepfather's form of discipline left black eyes, permanent lumps on my jawline and scars on my back from being thrown into a wall with a picture made with string and nails. That was abuse - I know the difference and so does my son.

When I was in middle school - 7th grade I think, one of the teacher's had a paddle with holes in it. I bet that thing hurt!

amber416
June 3rd, 2005, 07:53 PM
This discussion reminds me of an incident with a friend of my mom's. Awhile ago their little boy (four or five years old) had gotten into trouble for doing something (can't remember what exactly) and had gotten a spanking. Nothing "abusive" persay, it wasn't like a beating or anything, just a couple of swats on the butt. He got the whole explanation afterwards "mommy spanked you because..." . Anyway, a couple of hours later, the boy's little sister who was around one year old at the time, toddled up to him and grabbed a handful of his hair while he was watching tv. He turned around and reached around her and spanked her butt. She, being one and unsteady, fell over, hit her head and started crying and his mother had the nerve to come and "spank" him for "hitting" his sister! It completely disgusted me. I guess when disciplining children, to each his or her own, but you take the chance of having to deal with the consequences of what you just taught your child: hitting ("swatting" , "spanking", whatever) is okay sometimes. Not all children will grow up to be violent just because they were spanked but why take the chance when there is almost always another, non-violent approach to take? That is just my opinion though :)

iRONKNiGHT
June 3rd, 2005, 09:44 PM
A swat would be one smack, like if you were smacking a mosquito that was biting you

Geez i would'nt wanna bite you! lol ohh come on i could'nt resist!

mona_b
June 5th, 2005, 03:03 AM
I have just heard of too many cases where a spanking turns into a beating. Sometimes some people don't know where to draw the line.

You are so right.And these are the cases I see all the time.And it just sickens me.

kandy,using a wooden spoon IS abuse.Using a paddle IS also abuse.

CF,with my daughter,now that she's 18,I take her computer privliges away from her.But to be honest,it's very rare that it happens.But when I do,OMG it's like the world ended.....LOL

Cactus Flower
June 5th, 2005, 03:14 AM
WHOAH. I missed the comments about a paddle and a wooden spoon. I agree that this is abusive.

LOL Mona- does she have a cellphone? I wonder how many parents are taking THAT away from their teenage girls as punishment. Talk about the end of the world! It would be for many that I know.
And yes, the computer- especially for those that are addicted to playing games on it.

mona_b
June 5th, 2005, 03:54 AM
.LOL Mona- does she have a cellphone? I wonder how many parents are taking THAT away from their teenage girls as punishment. Talk about the end of the world! It would be for many that I know.
And yes, the computer- especially for those that are addicted to playing games on it.

She sure does....LOL....But that is one thing I wouldn't take way.The only reason being is this is my means of getting a hold of her when she is out.And for safety measures when she is out.In case of an emergency.She's just addicted to her MSN...... :rolleyes:

mona_b
June 5th, 2005, 03:56 AM
I have used a wooden spoon or a paddle - never an electrical cord or anything like that.

CF,here was that comment.

Writing4Fun
June 5th, 2005, 09:47 AM
kandy,using a wooden spoon IS abuse.Using a paddle IS also abuse.
Thank you for saying something! I wholeheartedly agree (I was afraid to post after the first comment was made, thinking it'd come across as accusing). IMHO, if you are going to spank your child, then use your hand. That way, you feel (to a degree) what your child is going through. You know how much force and pain is being inflicted. What is the purpose of using a foreign object for spanking? :confused: :(

Ahhh, yes. For my 15yr old nephew, there is no punishment in the world that is worse than taking away his instant messenger. :rolleyes: Either that, or if the opportunity is available, don't allow him to go to that concert he was planning on. Social butterfly that he is, it would just KILL him to be sitting at home while his buds are moshing. :p I have to say, though, that for all his piercings and make-up, he's a good kid and my sister rarely has to ground him like that. ;)

Crazy Hippie
June 5th, 2005, 11:57 PM
Honestly I don't think anyone ever needs to spank a kid to teach him/her a lesson. I've learned this through 1) working in a daycare and 2) having foster kids in our family. In both cases, I've had some pretty terrible behaviour to deal with, and of course spanking is out of the question with these kids, but there are other ways to teach kids than physical punishment. Our one foster child is 3 and being scolded or put on the step for "time out" is always enough to bring tears to his eyes and tell us he is sorry. Trust me, there are times when they disobey on purpose and you REALLY WANT to spank them, but withdrawing affection or letting them know you are disappointed in them is actually very effective and they do learn from it even at very young ages...sometimes I think parents spank more as a release of anger at the child than for the purpose of benefitting the child!