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Why do men like to punch holes in walls?

raingirl
May 30th, 2005, 07:36 PM
I was just thinking about this because BF is in a pissy mood. And no..he didn't punch a hole in any wall. I was just recalling a conversation I had with a few friends of mine, and all of them agreed that most of the men they knew were very impatient, threw temper tantrums, and on more than one occasion, punched holes in walls.

We just gave Odin a bath...and for some reason after any excitement or stress (like a bath) he tries to pee in the house. Well..today we didn't catch him. We usually get him bathed and take him out. Luckily it was on the wood floor I had just cleaned, so I still had a pail and cleaner out. Anyway, BF has a huge screaming hissy fit about how I should have been watching him because he was getting ready to take him out. I was washing my hands which was the only time I left the room!

What I don't understand is why he can't accept that accidents happen. He makes it seem like it is the end of the world! To me...it's nothing...I don't stress over it. He was screaming so loud that the dog was barking at him.

I just don't get it. All the men I know are like this. They have extremely low patience levels. Why is that?? I am a huge clutz...so I have accidents all the time. Every time he seems to think it's the worst thing ever. He says I "set myself up for failure" because I am not careful. I just don't care, that's why.

Now he has completely ruined my night and I totally am going to ignore him since he made me feel like crap and like it was my fault.

glasslass
May 30th, 2005, 07:49 PM
Mature men don't have screaming hissy-fits or punch walls. Immature ones do. Tell him that screaming is a form of abuse loss of control and you don't have to and won't stand for it!
:grouphug:

raingirl
May 30th, 2005, 08:06 PM
I guess all the men I know are immature then! Hehehe. Sorry, trying to be light hearted about it all.

I mean, pretty well EVERY man I know has fits and bad tempers. Friends parents, relatives, friends, parents. I even know a few woman who have put holes in walls. Well...we all know that men have tempers. Maybe it just seems worse to me because I am such a patient person. I don't get angry, EVER...and I mean never ever...so I don't yell back. I just ignore him, because no matter what I say, it just pisses him off more. If I were to say "gosh, it's not a big deal" that just pisses him off more. WHy is that? What is the big deal? I just don't get it! If I drop a fork by accident off my plate, he makes a big deal about it? Why? it's just a fork??? Anything sets him off...sometimes I feel like I have walk on pins and needles around him so he doesn't get pissed about something. Sorry...venting....

I also worry because heart disease and stroke and diabetes run in my BF's family, and he is already 35....I know he needs to calm down and stress less as I don't want him dying on me any time soon!

I just don't get why men just can't be calm and ok about things.

Writing4Fun
May 30th, 2005, 08:19 PM
Agreed, glasslass. I haven't seen a man punch a hole in the wall since my brothers were teenagers - and young teens at that. My ex-bil would have been that type, hence the "ex" status. ;)

Raingirl, please be careful. What you're describing has me a little scared, because it does sound a lot like what my ex-bil would have said and done. What my sister went through was not a fun trip (although she has grown and become much stronger for it, and is now a very independant and happy person).

I just read your last post. It seems like you're used to this behaviour because you grew up with it? That's even scarier. Just know that NOT all men are like that, you DON'T have to put up with it, you DO deserve better, and it's NOT all your fault, no matter what anyone else says! (Geez, now you've convinced me even more that your BF is just like my ex-BIL, and now I'm even more scared for you!).

BMDLuver
May 30th, 2005, 08:24 PM
The way you have described your boyfriend point to an abusive mate. He degrades you verbally, you walk on eggshells around him, etc... These are all signs that you are living in an unhealthy relationship. The fact that your family and friends are all similar is not a good thing. I would honestly suggest that you speak with someone about this. I have a very good friend who was always in relationships similar to yours. She is the never lose your temper kind of gal.. quiet, sweet, gentle, loving. She tried to kill herself by slitting her wrists. She didn't succeed, she was found by her brother first. I'm not telling you this to point fingers, make you feel bad or question your motives for staying in the relationship... it's simply to say that you should take a good look at why you surround yourself with similar types to your boyfriend, family etc.. My friend now has with time and some help from professionals and friends much healthier relationships. She no longer takes any type of abuse and voices her opinion when needed. It's like a new person emerged with all the gentleness still intact.

Prin
May 30th, 2005, 08:43 PM
It's a control thing. Men lose control when they have no control over a situation. (Women do it too, just in a different way) I have punched in my share of doors and walls, and it isn't healthy. There are other ways to express anger than physically or verbally.

Personally, if I was in your situation (keep in mind, I'm pretty muscley lol), I'd provoke a reaction. See what the limits are (spend too much time with dogs I think...). If the limit is a hit, you know you have to end it. I wouldn't risk being with someone knowing they're going to hit me when they don't have control over a situation and it gets bad enough.

I'm from a newer generation where the men are allowed to cry and show their emotions, so my man shouldn't have any excuse to express himself through walls and violence... :)

raingirl
May 30th, 2005, 08:46 PM
Sorry. I didn't mean to make it sound so bad. It probably sounds worse because I have a social anxiety fear, so to me, everything is 100X worse than it actually is. If you saw him, you would probably say this is normal behaviour, trust me.

I have already been to counselling for my depression and anxiety, and it was there that they told me I blow things out of proportion and I wouldn't feel so bad when someone gets angry if I didn't think they were thinking bad things about me. *i* feel like I need to walk on eggshells because *i* am worried he will think bad things about me... It's my own complex actually. So..don't worry about me. No man would ever hit me or anything without getting physically hurt by me first!! I just have a delicate "psyche"..always have, always will. I did intensive counselling and I still have huge fears about how people think of me.

Prin
May 30th, 2005, 08:47 PM
Oooooh making excuses... Denial? LOL Just kidding. I know what you mean. :)

Why I said test the limits if you're unsure.

pooker
May 30th, 2005, 09:00 PM
Hi, don't want to judge and you knew there was a but coming, BUT, please don't enable this kind of behavior You deserve better.Bin there done that Much happier now :love: Pooker

Writing4Fun
May 30th, 2005, 09:03 PM
Raingirl, I don't mean to beat this into the ground, but I'm still very worried about you.

The fact that you have a social anxiety disorder does not account for the punching holes in walls or the words he's used (I think you quoted him in the first post?). That is not acceptable behaviour from a grown man. Abuse is not always physical, remember that. And the fact that you have been to councelling for your disorder might mean that his behaviour is being "overlooked" as a symptom of your problems. If he is being emotionally abusive, he's not exactly going to be helping your condition, is he? Please, please take care of yourself. :grouphug:

raingirl
May 30th, 2005, 09:30 PM
Oh...he's never punched a hole in a wall..I was just generalizing.

He just came and apologized. He just was pissed because he doesnt like to live in filth and he felt that I wasn't being as clean with Odin as he was. BF also has a horrible time communicating. He doesn't tell me what is wrong ever...so I never know with him. Turns out he hates it when I give Odin Greenies because he makes a mess with them. THings like that don't bother me..but I didn't know they bothered him THAT much.

Writing, I've had a social anxiety fear since...well, we traced it back to at least early teens. There was no known cause. Organic mental disorders run in my family. My mother is bipolar and OCD, as well as one of my sisters. All of us have some kind of imbalance. I choose not to go on any meds for it though. I would rather work through my insecurities.

Yeah, he does tend to say mean things when he is pissed off...but doesn't everyone?? People often say things they don't mean when they are pissed. I can't get angry, but I can get upset. It's rather embarrasing actually, because I start crying and hyperventalating while trying to make a point that most people would have said when they were angry.

When people say, "you can always do better" I really don't get that. I will always have a social anxiety fear, and no matter how nice a guy is, one little angry fit will have me feeling the same way I am now. I probably have misexplained this all. I'm really bad at explaining things. Like I said, I was in a bad mood when I typed that stuff...just venting. My BF is nice and sweet and romantic, just a horrible communicator and impatient with a normal male temper. He only does this once in a while, not like all the time! And trust me, I don't think it's my fault or anything like that. I just know that no matter who I am with, I will always feel the same about them. A regular persons anger perplexes me and I will always walk on eggshells around a regular normal person, heck, I am like that with EVERYONE. I am afraid of anger, because I worry it has something to do with me (part of my anxiety) but I know it isn't, just sometimes it takes a while for it to kick in (darn genetics!).

Now..that being said, am I the only one who knows a lot of people who have put holes in walls (BF not included...but at least one ex BF is in that catagory)? I mean, my BF's father has, my father has, most of my friends in highschool have, most of my friend's fathers/uncles/brothers have, my friends husband has, my sisters husband has. Isn't it better that it's a wall and not a person (keep in mind these are all well adjusted people, no abuse in their families/relationships, just people who get angry and punch holes in walls). I see it as the same as when counsellors tell you to get out your anger by punching a punching bag...

Prin
May 30th, 2005, 09:53 PM
I know people who have done it... Me, my 2 brothers, my dad, me, my brothers, me....
We used to have a rule in our house, who ever breaks the next door has to buy new ones for all the rooms... So my brothers and I became master patch up artists...lol

I know exactly what you are saying. I come from a family of eating disorders (they just don't know it yet though), and I have a boyfriend that people told me "you can do better" or "he's not on your level". I think he's the best I can get, not because I have low self-esteem, but because he is the BEST for ME.

My shrink says I'm only with this guy still because I know doggies so well. Dogs can't talk so you have to read them. In reading my dogs all my life and getting good at it, I also can read my man. He is also non-expressive (unless I ask very DIRECTLY-- On a scale of 1 to 10, how stressed are you right now? Happy 1-10? etc). I can read his eyes. I can tell when he's annoyed, sad, scared, angry at me, in love with me, etc.

The silent ones always have the biggest bursts.

Cactus Flower
May 30th, 2005, 09:59 PM
Why do men like to punch holes in walls?
Often, because they are trying to not hit the person who angered them.

And it is different than hitting a punching bag, because it is destructive.

There are so many things I am compelled to comment about in your posts, but you are seeing a professional counselor, so I'd have to assume that it would be nothing that he/she hasn't already pointed out to you.

People will treat you however you give them permission to.

melanie
May 30th, 2005, 10:04 PM
an animal with extrememly poor social skills, serious confidence issues and with the expression of an ape hits and punches holes in the walls :mad: .


if my darling hubby even dreamed of talking to me like that or displaying such violent emotions for such a small issue i would probably beat him up with a cricket bat- and he knows it :evil: . this is what i keep saying ot my sister, if you do not get respected by ppl the way you desire to then dont stand for it. you teach ppl how to treat you, if you let ppl be mean they will, human nature. but if you teach ppl you will not take crap you generally dont get it.

i would never let any man raise his voice unecessarily, if any thing i am a very controling woman who was raised by a feminist, i wasnt raise to live in a patriachal society, in my family woman rule, probably unfair i suppose, and probably sexist, but you get that :D and why should the tables not turn.....but our men are happy and healthy and tend to stick around so we do alright with them. :D :D : :p

but dont ever forget that you teach ppl how to treat you, dont ever forget that. you go and teach that man his boundaries lady, and make sure he does not cross them :D :evil:

Safyre
May 30th, 2005, 10:44 PM
RainGirl - I think what most responses are trying to tell you is that: this is not a normal male temper.
You cannot attribute actions as 'oh, they are just normal' its a justification for not facing reality.

I know what you are saying, blowing things out of proportion...problem is, if you were quoting him.. or giving real life examples in your posts of why he has lost his temper ... his temper is too short and its not healthy.

As for whether or not the rest of us have known someone that punched holes in wall.... yes, myself, and I went to councelling to deal with my anger (childhood abuse) and my ex, who has now been in jail due to his temper.

Daisy's Owner
May 31st, 2005, 06:01 AM
My EX-husband used to hit walls. When that didn't get the desired effect, he turned his frustrations towards me. I'm not saying that will happen, just giving you my experience.

I was in counselling for depression and anxiety. Walking on eggshells all the time, because I didn't want to "provoke" an incident.

You would be amazed at what a normal healthy relationship can do for one's depression and anxiety.

Short tempers are not normal behaviour.

Raingirl, don't you think that your BF should try and control his temper knowing you suffer from depression and anxiety. Wouldn't the right thing to do, be to help lessen those issues you have within yourself by him staying on an even keel. Do you think that your need to walk on eggshells would lessen if you knew he wasn't going to blow up when you dropped a fork, or when you gave Odin a greenie?

happycats
May 31st, 2005, 06:30 AM
I had a boyfriend who punched holes in the walls. His mom told me she taught him this :confused: She said she told him instead of hitting people, especially a women, he should hit a wall instead!!

I beleive it's all in what you teach them while they are young, I have a son and, I am teaching my son, that it is not acceptable to hit "anything". You have to learn to control your temper, and not allow your temper to control you. I teach him to express him self with words, and not yell or hit!

I know you said he doesn't hit walls, but I still think anger management would help him.

If he yells and makes you cry, it’s a form of emotional abuse, and it has to be stopped, you both need to learn effective communication skills, which “doesn’t” include, yelling, insulting, belittling, or being hurtful in any way.

You both have to be able to express yourselves in a non-threatening, non-hurtful way.

Love isn't supposed to hurt, and if it does, then it's time to move on.

Writing4Fun
May 31st, 2005, 06:37 AM
Wow, raingirl. Isn't it nice to see so many people here who care about you this much? :D

My sister has always been a peace-keeper. She spent 15 years walking on eggshells, making sure no one said or did anything that would upset her husband (which, as I'm sure you know, was an impossible task). She would always tell people that we don't know him like she does, he's really very sweet & romantic & kind, he just has a bit of a temper, but it's OK as long as no one says or does anything to tick him off. I don't think he ever hit her (at least, she never showed any bruises - except for one time - that was when I started wondering about him). But I know he was always verbally abusive to her - I know because, after a while, he was comfortable enough in front of me not to hide it. That verbal abuse was transferred to their son when he was old enough to understand what it meant. Their poor daughter was simply ignored - a non-entity in his eyes, not worth as much as his son. As time went on, he developed a "bad back" and was on constant meds for it, which turned into a dependence on morphine. Then, one night, he took it a step too far and threw their then-9-year-old son against the bedroom wall, where he hit his head on a shelf. That was the last straw, and the night she decided to take the kids and leave him.

People who show this type of anger generally have issues of their own that need dealing with. Getting angry over Greenies is not normal behaviour. Maybe your BF needs councelling of his own to deal with his issues. My biggest concern is that this behaviour will escalate into something more destructive (just like my ex-BIL's did), which you certainly don't need to deal with.

Daisy's Owner nailed it - if he had a "normal" temper, he'd be showing some self-control and trying to help you with your disorder, not aggravate it by getting angry or telling you you're "setting yourself up for failure" over a dropped fork. I don't think you blew it out of proportion at all, but because of your disorder and the type of relationship you're in, you've been conditioned to think that you have. Those of us who are viewing this with a neutral eye and without the fetters of your issues can see it for what it is, and we care enough about you to tell you what we see, hoping it will help you better your situation.

BMDLuver
May 31st, 2005, 07:46 AM
Daisy's Owner nailed it - if he had a "normal" temper, he'd be showing some self-control and trying to help you with your disorder, not aggravate it by getting angry or telling you you're "setting yourself up for failure" over a dropped fork. I don't think you blew it out of proportion at all, but because of your disorder and the type of relationship you're in, you've been conditioned to think that you have. Those of us who are viewing this with a neutral eye and without the fetters of your issues can see it for what it is, and we care enough about you to tell you what we see, hoping it will help you better your situation.
Very well said. Exactly what all of us are trying to express but maybe not so eloquently.

When I was in my early 20's I dated a guy for a very long time who had an awful temper. Through the whole relationship I was very cautious about how I said or did anything. My friends kept saying "I don't understand why you stay with this guy" and I kept on answering "Oh, you don't know him like I do, he can be the sweetest guy, he just gets frustrated". As time wore on, his temper got to be quite a bit shorter. I was getting to the point where I wasn't sure what would set him off. He punched walls, slammed things, yelled, etc.. I decided that maybe it was enough and stupidly told him face to face that we needed a break from each other. The sentence was barely out of my mouth when I was picked up and thrown through the family room picture window. I was very lucky that I came out with minor injuries. I went straight to a friend's house and didn't he show up an hour later all apologetic and trying to get me to understand that what I had said had really upset him. Basically back to it was all my fault, he never would have done it if I hadn't said it. It took a month for him to stop showing up at my home and several friends removing him from my door everytime he did. It was a lesson I learned the very hard way and I was lucky I got out intact.

If you met me today, you would have no idea that I have panic attacks going to new places, meeting new people, etc... as it all lives in my head. I have learned to be the opposite of what goes on inside. The more I do this, the easier it becomes. There will come a day when I can just head out to something without worry or anxiety about it, it's getting close. There's always a reason for why someone has difficulties in choosing the right relationship and I know that mine stems from watching my mom battle cancer for so many years and still leave me at 15. I never processed the grief properly and it all turned into if someone shows love, in whatever form, I'll take it and go with it no matter what other baggage comes along with it. I at least have my ex to thank for breaking that cycle.

Just think about what everyone has said and shared. Perhaps you'll see a bit of yourself in one of the situations and understand that right now your situation could be far better. No matter what "issues" you may have, no one has the right to play with them and escalate them. :grouphug:

nymph
May 31st, 2005, 10:08 AM
I completely agree with Cactus Flower.

My husband is more patient than I am, so not all men have bad temper. Also I seem to remember that your BF is 37 years old, so it's a little bit of a surprise to me, but then again, I don't really know him, and I don't feel right to project my own judgements on him without knowing more about him.

raingirl
May 31st, 2005, 11:10 AM
Well...sorry I brought this all up. I was just venting because he made a big deal about something so little. He has his faults, just like me. How can I expect a man to change when I am too stubborn to change myself? I am really lazy, I admit it. I take on projects and don't finish them. I start things, and then leave them. I hate anything that makes me stressed including responsibilities. If I have a responsibility, something as simple as an appointment to keep, or a phone call to make, I have panic attacks. So I just avoid things like that completely if I can. Why should I through out my candy bar wrapper now if I don't have to?? Why do the dishes now when they can be done later? I basically supported myself from when I was 9 or 10...so I'm sick of being responsible. I know if the tables were reversed and I was my BF, and he was me, I would get pissed sometimes too if I was a super responsible person (BF is super responsible when it comes to things that need to be done..I'm a procrastinator). I'm sick of taking care of people. I'm sick of being the one to make all the meals, do the dishes, do all the cleaning, vacuuming, laundry, grocery shopping...ok, I don't always do it all, but sometimes I feel like I do. I'm just sick of life sometimes...you know?? so I get lazy, I get clumsy, I am a little bit of a slob.

BF doesn't get mad often. just a couple times a year (2-3)...but like Prin said, I can tell his moods, so I know when to just leave him alone. The silen ones do tend to have the biggest bursts. I make it worse though because of my SA...I tend to want to ask him if it is something i did, or I tend to ask or seek approval...he is NOT supposed to support my request for approval (per counsellor). He is not supposed to coddle my insecurities. He is supposed to be frank with me, as I am supposed to learn to take critisism (which now I suck at, any critisism makes me want to die...I'm working on it). I tend to make big deals out of nothing. A wrong look, a comment that means nothing I turn into the worst comment in the world, even playing a game of cards I get depressed if I loose (I am a sore looser). It's just who I am..and he is who he is. He was the "responsible" brother of his siblings. Took care of his father's messes, mended things. I understand his side too. I do agree he needs to take care of a few issues of his own (counselling would help) but that's not going to happen. I have been bugging him for 3 years just to get a physical and he hasn't yet. He needs to go to the dentist to fix a toothache he has had for 9 months, he hasn't yet. He is stubborn. My theory is just live my life, do my things, I need to stop being needy and just get over it. Stop making a big deal out of nothing.

Schwinn
May 31st, 2005, 12:01 PM
First off, one thing I want to say is that punching walls does not necessarily preclude punching people. It is immature and childish, yes, but it does not mean that it WILL lead to hitting spouses/children. I've hit my fair share of walls, and I can't imagine hitting my spouse. I've actually been clocked a couple of times by a woman (one was an ex-girlfriend, the other was...well, a long story, anyway). Both times I saw it coming, both times I took it and made sure that I didn't go off and hit back. Now, I tend not to break things. I have hit the odd inanimate object out of extreme frustration (it happens about once every...I don't know, few years...). I have a beam in my basement that looks like the nails came out. Normally, I would never break something out of anger, it was done as a release. I didn't expect that the board would come un-nailed.

At any rate, as a sociology major, I've actually read a few theories on this. One is that men are told to keep themselves "in check" around woman. While it is socially acceptable for women to be emotional, and even if a woman does hit a man, it generally is not seen as a "serious" issue ("he out-weighs her by 100lbs. He can take it"). Eventually, if enough of his emotions are surpressed, he'll "erupt". (This was actually written by a feminist, the book is called "A Chink in the Armor") Hitting the wall is an outlet, like going for a run, or hitting the gym. It doesn't always mean that he is trying to avoid hitting the woman (though if he tries to blame her for his irrational reaction, I think there should be some concern. "Look what you made me do". Not good.)

A theory that I have, and I have seen some touch upon is that men are different than woman, physiologically. It's called testosterone. During times of extreme stress, the body is flooded with adrenaline, causing a build up which feels almost like pressure, needing to be released. Kind of like the "fight or flight" mode. Ask any man who was in a situation where he thought a fight was going to start, and he will usually tell you he felt like his entire body was charged, and if nothing happens, it usually makes your muscles feel very restless. Of course, woman also can experience this, but I think it is more rare for a woman. Any man I've spoken with knows right away what I am talking about, but very few woman. However, I also believe that this "trigger" is pulled by the person. If someone has thier emotions in check, and is rational in thier temper, they won't feel this sudden "energy" that needs to be released. So again, this does not excuse a lack of control.

Of course, all of this might be bogus and the guy might just be a jerk (not saying your guy, Raingirl, just saying in general).

Bottom line is, there IS a reason that men handle things differently than women, and if dude is constantly perforating the hallway walls, he has issues.

Daisy's Owner
May 31st, 2005, 12:08 PM
Don't be sorry that you brought it up. If for nothing else, it was a vent that you needed to make and the support for you has been overwhelming.

I am really lazy, I admit it. I take on projects and don't finish them. I start things, and then leave them. ... Why should I through out my candy bar wrapper now if I don't have to?? Why do the dishes now when they can be done later?

LOL!!! Get out of my head. There's only room for one lazy ass in this brain. Just kidding.

Oh and by the way, I don't call it lazy, I call it having a higher tolerance for mess. Because I do eventually get around to doing the dishes or throwing out the candy wrapper. I made it perfectly clear to my husband. If he wants a spic and span house like his mother's, he is going to have to keep it that way. If he wants me to do all the house cleaning, he is going to have to wait until I'm good and ready to do it.

raingirl
May 31st, 2005, 12:24 PM
Sometimes I feel horrible trying to explain things. I've never been that good with words or talking...i tend to talk fast to get out what I am going to say or I forget it all or loose the courage to say it. As a result, I often say things that I don't mean or things that come out the wrong way. I have a horrible short term memory as well, which doesn't help. I also studder because of my anxiety, I studder more when I try and slow down and say what I mean fully..it's hard. No one ever let me get a word in edgewise as a kid, so the therapist figures that is why I feel the need to get it all out at once, often without thinking of the consequences. I'm so scared of not getting my point across I say stupid things sometimes.

Schwinn, I know what you mean out the sociology and physiology and psychology of it all. I was an Anthropology major, and had to take most of those courses as well as the anthro ones. Social Anthropology wasn't my strong point, but I feel that I am able to read people really well because of it. I know my BF would never hit me or hit anyone. I have felt that adrenaline muscle thing before though...can't recall any specific occasion, but i think with me it happens because I can't get angry, so I get the adrenaline buildup but can't actually yell or anything like that (because I have trouble expressing myself). Usually I just start walking or pacing or just something active until my body calms down. thanks schwinn for explaining that.

Writing4Fun
May 31st, 2005, 01:02 PM
Oh and by the way, I don't call it lazy, I call it having a higher tolerance for mess. Because I do eventually get around to doing the dishes or throwing out the candy wrapper. I made it perfectly clear to my husband. If he wants a spic and span house like his mother's, he is going to have to keep it that way. If he wants me to do all the house cleaning, he is going to have to wait until I'm good and ready to do it.
No way! You mean there's more than one of us on this board?? :eek: Luckily for me (or maybe not so luckily :confused: ), Hubby is the same way I am when it comes to the housework. And, instead of getting angry with me for not keeping a spic & span home, he gets angry with himself and once in a while goes on a cleaning spree - just picks a spot that's really bothering him and cleans it out (last week, it was the hall closet). :D When I was working, I actually had a contract with a cleaning service to come in once every other week to do my floors & bathrooms really well. Boy, do I miss that!! :(

Raingirl, never apologize for feeling the way you do. You know your own situation best. We're just giving you our own experiences to learn from or ignore as you see fit. At least now you know that there are a whole lotta people here who really like you. :grouphug:

Schwinn, that was very enlightening! Always a pleasure to get an insider's view into the male psyche. Forgive me, though, if I still react negatively to punching walls. It's just something no one in my family ever did beyond childhood, and as innocuous as some men may feel the action to be, most women will be threatened by it.

Schwinn
May 31st, 2005, 01:44 PM
Schwinn, that was very enlightening! Always a pleasure to get an insider's view into the male psyche. Forgive me, though, if I still react negatively to punching walls. It's just something no one in my family ever did beyond childhood, and as innocuous as some men may feel the action to be, most women will be threatened by it.

No problem, but as I said, those are theories (with some of my own sprinkled within). And I agree on the "punching walls" thing. I've often said that everything has a reason, but that by no means makes it an excuse. Bottom line is that if someone is punching a wall (or anything not meant to be punched!), they aren't handling the stress properly. And it is scary. I mean, if they are really punching (and not just putting on a show) there's a good chance they are going to hurt themselves, the wall, or both. I don't know about you, but the thought of someone not caring if they hurt themselves I find a little scary myself. Personally, if I ever thought that a family member was worried that I might hurt them, I'd be doing some deep soul-searching.

Terrie
May 31st, 2005, 01:57 PM
WHY DO MEN PUNCH HOLES IN THE WALL?

Because they're IDIOTS!

One day the wall, the next.... Your face!

Jackie467
May 31st, 2005, 02:05 PM
I understand what your saying raingirl. I'm sort of in that relationship too only it's reversed. My BF never ever so much as raises his voice ever. I on the other hand can be a bit of a hot head sometimes and like to talk about whats bothering me, he doesn't just keeps it all inside. what ends up happening is I'm talking and talking and he never so much as says a word to me. That drives me nuts because he doesn't look at me either (in dog terms i'm dominant lol) and I don't know if he's listening. I'm one of those people who when you say or do something I don't like and I know you very well I'll tell you about it, he's not he doesn't tell you it bothers him. I can't stand when someone is not listening to me so my voice tends to get louder and louder until he either looks at me or says something. He never says when something bothers him so it builds up and builds up until he finally explodes and starts yelling (never has done anything physically). I actully find that as a reliefe because he finally gets it out and we can work on it. But if yelling is abusive then I must be the most abusive gf ever. I don't mean to yell my voice just simply raises to get my point across, I don't see that as abuse. We don't argue all the time or anything, but i'm one of those women who likes to talk about the way I feel, and I like for someone to listen. Majority of the time when he does something (like spend all day playing video games when he has the day off after I asked him a week ago to fold the laundry and he never did it) all I want for him to do is say I'm sorry I didn't realize I took that long (or something like that) and I'd be perfectly happy, instead he just sits there not looking at me and doesn't say a word. to me that's just plain rude.

raingirl
May 31st, 2005, 02:39 PM
Jackie, that's almost exactly how we are. I ask him to do things..he doesn't do them. He is quiet, doesn't talk much, never tells me when things are bothering him, never tells me when he has a beef about something, until he finally blows up about something small and then gets it all out and we talk about it. I am a talker...and because I work at home right now, i don't get much social interaction (except here)..so I'm a little lonely, and like to talk to him when he gets home. I know I talk a lot, and I probably talk too much (a lot of people have told me that) and I always tend to say my thoughts instead of keep my mouth shut. I always ask "do you want me to do this, do you want to do this?" etc etc or I say "I'm going to do this or that", and he just says, don't ask, just do it if you are going to do it! He says, if you going to the store, just go, you don't need to tell me everything you are getting while you are there......I don't get it. I want to be open and have him understand what's going on in my head. What if I go to the store to get his favorite ice cream, and get it home and he doesn't want it? Wouldn't it make sense to say "I'm going to get ice cream" and have him say no if he didn't want any first?? Maybe that's my problem. It's all part of my approval thing. I have trouble doing anything alone or without approval first. I want pizza for dinner tonight, so I called my BF and asked him pizza was ok for dinner. I KNOW it will be ok..but why did I have the need to call about such a stupid little thing as that?? I tried not calling him...but I couldn't do it. WHY???

Again...stupid genetics!! Why did I get the genes I have? Parents who played mind tricks who were evil and manipulative...they totally screwed me up!

Wanted to add this in. The reason I like it to be known what I am going to do is what if he has an objection?? Say I go to him and say "I'm going to have a bubble bath" What if he had to use the washroom first? We only have one bathroom. I also ask because I would like it if he started telling me things before he does it. My mom had this HORRIBLE habit of cleaning up the kitchen when I was in the middle of cooking something. I HATED IT, but because she is Obsessive Compulsive and can't have a mess anywhere ANYTIME, she would come and clean my dishes, or my spatula or my stiring spoon. I would leave the room for a minute, and come back to stir my sauce or something, and all my utensils would be gone! (I know some people say I should not complain about this but...) She would clean my room as a teen and move all my stuff around. I hated it. EVERYONE knows you have three piles for clothes, the dirty pile, the clean pile, and the "in betweens" (stuff you can wear again that isn't dirty yet, but not clean enough to go in the clean pile). She would mix up all my clothes, fold them, and put them in drawers. EWWW! SO I had to pull ALL my clothes out and wash them again. She would take all my papers and put them in one pile! What if I had them arranged in special places for projects or what not, she didn't care. She would move them just the same. As a result, I hate it when people touch or move my stuff. I eventually got a dead bolt lock and installed it on my bedroom door. I know, sounds drastic doesn't it?? Well, between my mom's medling in my stuff, and my sisters stealing my stuff, it was my only option. I got to the point when living at my parents that EVEYTHING I owned had to be in my room. I couldn't even leave a pair of shoes at the front door without my sisters stealing them. I had a locked box in the fridge with MY food that I bought in it (my mom didn't beleive in buying real food...all we had were frozen dinners). Yesterday I cleaned the house. I had vinegar in a cup I was using to whip down the bathtub with. I had extra I was going to put back in my spray bottle of vinegar. After BF got all pissy, I came online, and he washed all the dishes, and threw away the vinegar!! It was at least 1.5 cups left! He didn't even think to see why it was there, or ask if I needed it still. Sometimes he gets pissy because I don't do something or move something, and the reason I didn't do it is because I wasn't sure if he still needed it there, or was still working on it, or something. It is out of respect that I tell him everything I am going to do, and I wish he would do the same sometimes. Why can't he tell me BEFORE he closes the windows that he is going to do it? What if I had them open for a reason?? It's all about communication. I am trying to communicate to him my every action which pisses him off, and he just does stuff without telling me which really pisses me off.

Jackie467
May 31st, 2005, 02:58 PM
exactly. I hate that Tomas always does stuff without telling me. like just two days ago I told him I would make him a nice dinner. He said ok that will be great (I can cook but I normally don't because I hate it so this was special). Well I spent all day making my families special sauce recipe for lasanga. That night I had everything done and had set the table for a romantic dinner, well tomas shows up with pizza (works at a pizza place) and says "well I felt like pizza tonight". Yes I ended up yelling, when I told him that it bothered me that he didn't even call me to tell me not to cook, or to at least put the sauce in the fridge for tomorrow he says "I shouldn't have to check with you for everything, I am my own person". That really set me off. I don't think wanting him to tell me not to spend all day cooking because he wasn't going to eat is controling him, I think it's just common curtousy.

melanie
May 31st, 2005, 06:02 PM
WTF is this a patriachally led and cotroled society or what? my god im shocked at some of these replies. now that makes me want to blow a gasket

oh bohoo, oh waaaa, the poor man having to watch himself in front of ppl , oh the repression OH THE REPRESSION OH THE REPRESSION :mad: IT truly is mind numbing for sure, i dont know how you all cope.. i did not realise it is so hard for some to be in our society, i mean the gall of ppl to expect ppl to behave and act like normal well balance ppl, who can use other forms of expression and communication to get a point across.

testosterone, ha. i have a testosterone disorder, and i am female, i have double the test of most woman. i too have a temper, and yet i dotn see anyone makeing excuses for my agressive behaviours, i know fight or flight well, if anything ppl are very unaccepting of woman with power and agression ( most men scared of woman with power, ah i think that is related to patriachal control, make a woman look bad for expressing, she is embarassed and patriachal control is enforced).

im sorry but there is no excuses for agressive violence, esp not an excuse like 'oh the poor man was repressed and blew a gasket' oh didums., my butt he did, he jsut has the social skills and expression of a neanderthal. when men act violent and punch walls it is to intimidate, and for no other reason.they want to intimidate the partner/child etc. its called CONTROL through FEAR. of course they wont hit you, then in their mind that is wrong, but to intimidate by fear is different, they dont see the scars the next day...yet millions of ppl experience that pain daily..arent we awful for expecting ppl to be normal.

i didnt realise all men were jsut frustrated time bombs waiting to hit something, boy thanks for the warning, i best fall back into my meek and unopinionated female self for fear of stressing hubby out so much that he will blow, i think i may go wash his feet and then let him use my back as a foot stool...

WOMAN DONT NEED TO TAKE CRAP, patriachy is going very out of fashion, and i for one refuse to live in such a state anyway, you make your life what you want, you control your destiny, YOU ARE TREATED AS YOU SO DESIRE, AND IF NOT WELL YOU CAN LEAVE.....

and yes doing the dishes, cooking, cleaning ,shopping, working, caring, raising the family etc etc, yes it sucks but sadly in a patriachally dominated society many woman are still expected to do all/most these things and more, it wont change until woman realise their strenght and powers and we start raining our boys differently......mels rant is now complete :p .

Karin
May 31st, 2005, 07:52 PM
WTF is this a patriachally led and cotroled society or what? my god im shocked at some of these replies. now that makes me want to blow a gasket

oh bohoo, oh waaaa, the poor man having to watch himself in front of ppl , oh the repression OH THE REPRESSION OH THE REPRESSION :mad: IT truly is mind numbing for sure, i dont know how you all cope.. i did not realise it is so hard for some to be in our society, i mean the gall of ppl to expect ppl to behave and act like normal well balance ppl, who can use other forms of expression and communication to get a point across.

testosterone, ha. i have a testosterone disorder, and i am female, i have double the test of most woman. i too have a temper, and yet i dotn see anyone makeing excuses for my agressive behaviours, i know fight or flight well, if anything ppl are very unaccepting of woman with power and agression ( most men scared of woman with power, ah i think that is related to patriachal control, make a woman look bad for expressing, she is embarassed and patriachal control is enforced).

im sorry but there is no excuses for agressive violence, esp not an excuse like 'oh the poor man was repressed and blew a gasket' oh didums., my butt he did, he jsut has the social skills and expression of a neanderthal. when men act violent and punch walls it is to intimidate, and for no other reason.they want to intimidate the partner/child etc. its called CONTROL through FEAR. of course they wont hit you, then in their mind that is wrong, but to intimidate by fear is different, they dont see the scars the next day...yet millions of ppl experience that pain daily..arent we awful for expecting ppl to be normal.

i didnt realise all men were jsut frustrated time bombs waiting to hit something, boy thanks for the warning, i best fall back into my meek and unopinionated female self for fear of stressing hubby out so much that he will blow, i think i may go wash his feet and then let him use my back as a foot stool...

WOMAN DONT NEED TO TAKE CRAP, patriachy is going very out of fashion, and i for one refuse to live in such a state anyway, you make your life what you want, you control your destiny, YOU ARE TREATED AS YOU SO DESIRE, AND IF NOT WELL YOU CAN LEAVE.....

and yes doing the dishes, cooking, cleaning ,shopping, working, caring, raising the family etc etc, yes it sucks but sadly in a patriachally dominated society many woman are still expected to do all/most these things and more, it wont change until woman realise their strenght and powers and we start raining our boys differently......mels rant is now complete :p .


Don't hold back Mel, tell us how you really feel.



lol

I was not going to even read this thread, the last one posted recently brought back some bad memories that usually do not need encouragement to resurface.

All I can say is If anyone ever finds themselves in a abusive situation or one that has all the signs of becoming one, run, do not walk, run as fast as you can. The broken bones heal, bruises fade, but the scars you carry inside last a lifetime. I was in more than one abusive/controlling relationship. I can tell you horror stories how a simple outburst or disagreement can turn ugly in a heartbeat. The tamest one started as an agruement over an electric bill..1 &1/2 hours later I was in the ER. I went back to him. I kept going back every time he hurt me.And it only got worse. I was so beaten down I saw no wrong, I felt like I deserved this treatment.
I was rescued by all my friends this creep alienated me from over time. *seperation from family & friends is another sign*

Like Mel said, "There's no excuse for violence."

Bearsmom
May 31st, 2005, 08:26 PM
When hubby and I first started dating, and, as all married people do. discuss certain things. We started talking about domestic violence, and I told him, "if you ever hit me, or want to hit me, make it a good one, 'cause it'll be your last".

Prin
May 31st, 2005, 09:51 PM
What I can add is that testosterone is a factor-- if I take a birth control pill with any testosterone in it, within an hour after taking the pill, I have rage. I can't have ANY extra testosterone. I didn't know why all of a sudden I didn't have any control of my anger, and then my gyno told me she made a mistake with the testosterone...

melanie
June 1st, 2005, 02:00 AM
yes my lovelies, lifes to short to stuff around, life is not a dress rehersal. , and in my world a spade is a spade, im not going to paint it and call it a digging implement to please anyone.

funny that testosterone pill, i actually take a pill with a type of estrogen stimulant substance in it to increase my estrogen in my system (dont ask me the details, im no doc). apparently it is quite common in alot of woman, when i was into kick boxing and karate and training heavily, it went through the roof and i was like a little rocky 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 'adriannnnnn'. but then i have a very feisty personality anyways, like you could not guess :angel:

good luck lady

Cactus Flower
June 1st, 2005, 03:31 AM
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: You've just gotta love Melanie.
:thumbs up

Daisy's Owner
June 1st, 2005, 05:35 AM
i didnt realise all men were just frustrated time bombs waiting to hit something,

Maybe we need some BSL of our own. :p

Schwinn
June 1st, 2005, 11:30 AM
Well Melanie, I can only assume it is my post that prompted yours, so let me reiterate what I said--a)these are theories and b)nothing excuses violence. It is interesting you mention that you have a testosterone disorder. One of my best friends also had one which required her to take estrogen medication while I was at university, and she is actually one of the people who helped support the theory. As for the theory of men having to control themselves, again, that is just a theory (that was put forth by a feminist). While a woman can get upset, cry or yell, a man who cries is often thought of as a wimp, or yells is accused of abuse. This, again, is according to the theory. So why does a man "blow a gasket"? Same reason a woman does--thier coping skills have given out before the stress has been relieved. Except in rare situations, this, to me, would indicate the individual needs to check themselves if they lose control. But the way a woman blows a gasket is, on average, different than the way a man does. That was the question--why do men punch walls. To me, the inverse of that would be, why don't women? The testosterone theory would be a pretty good one, in my mind.

As for the only reason being to intimidate, well, I'm afraid I have to call BS on that one. While there may be times where that is the reason, I can say, sadly from experience, that most men who reach that point aren't thinking clearly enough to rationalize, "Hey, if I risk hurting myself and wrecking something, I can get this person to do what I want". No, usually it is an (unacceptable) expression of frustration, for whatever reason. Myself, I hit the gym, or pull out my bike and look for the roughest trail. Another bit of proof I would submit is that if it were merely for intimidation, then it wouldn't happen when no one is around. Again, unfortunatly, I know of many, many examples where a male has punched a wall or thrown something out of frustration, though I can happily say that in my adult life, those instances are few and far between. Other than that, usually either alcohol or immaturity was involved.

As I said, everything has a reason, just not everything has an excuse.

One quick analogy for the testosterone theory. If someone has a high-powered sports car, and another person has a little four cylinder puddle jumper, and they both slam on the gas, the puddle jumper might make a little squeak, while the sports car will set off a squealing smoke show and spin out uncontrollably. Do we say, well, of course the guy (or girl) in the sports car did that, look at the car. No, we understand why it happened, but we still call the person a moron for not being able to handle the vehicle properly.

(and yes, I have hit a wall, but I have never, ever, raised my hand to a woman in my adult life. If I ever did, I would hope it would be in front of my father who would beat me within an inch of my life)

Schwinn
June 1st, 2005, 11:31 AM
Maybe we need some BSL of our own. :p

Some how, bringing out the quote of "licking" time bomb would seem wrong here... :D

Eleni
June 1st, 2005, 11:43 AM
Im on teh fence.


I dont agree people should be punching holes in walls, but I DO beleive that people should release their anger.

if that means punching an inanimate object like a wall before you temper reaches a pint of no return then by all means feel free to reak your hand in the process.


Im not afriad of my husband in the least, Hes hit his hand on the table in anger before and it hasnt bothere me one it. thats uaully the point in the arguement where we have decided enough is enough time for use both to balk off to our own corners and come back to it later with clear minds.

just because someone hits a wall doesnt mean they will then it a woman child or any person for that matter.

anger does ugly things to people.


Eleni

kandy
June 1st, 2005, 12:32 PM
When hubby and I first started dating, and, as all married people do. discuss certain things. We started talking about domestic violence, and I told him, "if you ever hit me, or want to hit me, make it a good one, 'cause it'll be your last".

Ditto for me - I told my husband when we were dating that if he ever raised a hand towards me in anger, it wouldn't matter if he hit me or not - show me that potential and I'm outta here! I was physically abused during my youth and would not be around someone who can't control their anger. Yelling is ok, hitting (anything or anyone) is not. I have had friends who were abused, both mentally and physically by their husbands - and I know a couple who bring out the worst in each other (both have spent time in jail for spousal abuse). I always tell people that you should be able to say anything in the heat of anger and not worry about getting punched. Living in fear is not living, and if you have to walk on eggshells worrying about what will "set him off" then you are living in fear.

Daisy's Owner
June 1st, 2005, 01:34 PM
Some how, bringing out the quote of "licking" time bomb would seem wrong here... :D

http://bestsmileys.com/lol/4.gif

Luvmypit
June 1st, 2005, 02:54 PM
I told the Bf the same thing ... 2 things will make me leave you without discussion that would be cheating and hitting me.

I was involved once in an incident that had me approching a car while stopped in the middle of progress rd. with one of the those heavy duty baton type flashlights well this man slammed this womens head repeatly over and over again into the centre console of the car. Not one other car was a round and I couldn't just let him...
She ended up getting out of the car and into some strangers car that wisked her away before I had to use my flashlight on him. All I got to do was scream and yell as I walked across the street afraid of what the heck I was getting into. Any how this man was armed and dangerous and the officer told me at the time that he had kidnapped this lady with a gun...
And here I come with a dang flashlight! Needless to say as soon as I got into the house and BF said what was wrong I just cried... I was so shocked... but I reacted you know. And I didnt think about all that.


I agree with Shwinn that hitting a wall isn't always for intimidation. I do think though that if someone has to every time or the majority time hit something then they are one step away from hitting a person or persons.

Raingirl one thing I am concerned about more than what he says to you is your ability to put yourself down. All I hear is negative comments regarding yourself . I realize you have issues that your dealing with and are working at them which is great... but may I encourage you not to be so hard on yourself. YOur a great person that has envoked some very caring responses from pets.ca members... that were concerned...
Who says who is normal really? Is anyone really normal? I don't think in human nature you can use the term normal... I wouldn't analyze yourself so much...Just a thought hope you don't mind...

Schwinn
June 1st, 2005, 03:46 PM
Who says who is normal really? Is anyone really normal? I don't think in human nature you can use the term normal

It seems people I talk to know who isn't normal... :o

I agree, Raingirl. You have a big following here, and there has to be a reason for it. You are what you are, and that's all there is to it. By focusing on the negative (or rather, what you perceive as negative), you aren't doing yourself any favours. As a matter of fact, you may be enabling your BF to blame you for things you don't deserve blame for. Some of the things you've described don't sound like reasons to get upset over. For example, why WOULDN'T you call and ask him if he wanted pizza? Only makes sense to me. Maybe he already ate, maybe he already brought home dinner, or made dinner, or maybe he wasn't hungry. Sure, you may feel you have certain issues, but if he is the one being irrational in his anger, by you feeling bad that you "did what you do", is only making it rational anger in his mind. It may not be something he's doing conciously, but I have a feeling that there are times when you are shouldering more than your share of the burden for the fight.

lilith_rizel
June 1st, 2005, 06:21 PM
Raingirl your not the only one who know guys who does that. James used to do that a few years back, but I don't blame him with what he was put through. He actually damaged his wrist really bad, still bothers him to the day, sometimes. But it isn't bad enough to where the Army would kick him out or anything, thank heavens.....

And although we had our share of arguments, I know he would never hit me. It hasn't even came close to that. Our method of keeping cool it go into separate rooms after the first 5 minutes or sof arguing, before it gets to the point where we are going to say things we regret.... Then when we both have collected our thoughts, we talk it over calmy, and don't interupt the other. Jame usually says what he want to say first, then I do, and then we just finish with I love yous and what not. Doing it that way has built our relationship so strong, that we could never even think about striking the other out of anger.....

melanie
June 1st, 2005, 11:30 PM
schwinn, matey i think i would be happy to agree to disagree on that one, each to their own and all that.

i was just speaking to mum about this thread, (you think im bad, get her going :evil: , she taught me all i know :p ). and she reminded me of a boy we know a few yrs back, he was a wall puncher. well one day he punched a thick pane glass door and severed all of the tendons in his hand, he lost most of the use of that hand and lost his career as a mechanic from the incedent (some may call that karma, but then some may not).

food for thought :D

Schwinn
June 2nd, 2005, 10:16 AM
schwinn, matey i think i would be happy to agree to disagree on that one, each to their own and all that.



That's cool. That's why they have theories, because not everyone agrees. Just wanted to re-inforce that I'm not excusing the behaviour. Also, I think any adult who feels the only way they can handle anger is by punching something has some serious issues. There's a big difference between someone who has hit a wall the odd time they were under some sort of unusually heavy stress (and by odd, I mean once in a few years time), and someone who decides to beat on inanimate objects every time they get a little upset.