May 29th, 2005, 10:35 PM
Here's Jemma's life time line:
Dec 21, 2000 Born
Feb 18-Mar 18, 2001, stayed in a kennel
June 27, 2001- Have a baby, give doggy to Lady
Sept2001-Feb 2002, she is left ALONE in her apartment while the lady travels-- a friend takes her out to the balcony twice a day.
June 5, 2002-- She comes to live with us.
I think she has been around so much- she FINALLY settled into the family maybe about 6 months ago. She became OUR dog for real-- she was soooo untrusting until that point. Just a few weeks ago, she stopped growling at night.
We're moving soon, and I have already brought her outside the house and explained her in the best way I could, with words she already knows that we're ALL moving there. Sort of like "That's Jemma's house, and that's daddy's house and Mummy's house and Boo's house.." She seems to have gotten something out of it because she's been very submissive and crabby since then (all over again).
In the midst of all this, the previous owner asked me if I thought it would EVER be a good idea to see her again. If we weren't moving, I'd say yes, because she is so settled, one visit might not matter too much. But with the moving, it's definitely NO.
What would you do in this situation? Would you let her see Jemma again? I know she's not even going to TRY to take her back or anything, so that's not an issue.
May 29th, 2005, 10:55 PM
I guess it would depend on what circumstances the person gave up the animal. . .
. . . So many of us liken our pets to children . . .if you gave up your child for adoption, what right would you have to go see them once they were adopted to a new family. . .
May 29th, 2005, 10:57 PM
She gave her up because she was leaving the country for good-- she never left and Jemma turned out to have hormone related incontinence... Fishy.
She's a really nice person, I just think she thought we were the perfect family and didn't want to jeopardize that with a "but she's incontinent"...
May 29th, 2005, 11:04 PM
absolutly not, she cant have her cake and eat it to. what so she dumps the dog on you after she provides inadequate care, then gets you to fix her problem and then wants to see her cute little toy again, but sorry no way, she did not take adequate care, so then she does not deserve the relaionship. heck the dog was left alone for 6months i dont care if it was put out twice a day, to me that is straight foreward dog abuse form a dog abuser :mad: ., no she really does not sound very nice or someone i would want becoming involved with my family..
not to mention dogs have great memories, when your baby sees this woman they will remember, and you dont want the dog to go back to its old ways of fear and anxiety jsut because he has seen her..cut ties i say its fair to your pup to do that, and fair to you for all the work you put into the dog.
grrrr i cannot stand bad owners, sorry but that lady would make me very mad indeed....
May 29th, 2005, 11:12 PM
I can't hate her because she gave me Jemma. Jemma's ad was up for a month and the lady had no decent callers. She screened like mad for Jemma's new home. She came here, came to our parks, met Boo and the man, calls me every so often for news-- she calls when I'm not home to hear Jemma's voice on the answering machine. This lady doesn't know where she's going in life and Jemma got dumped on her. She loved her but yes, her doggy care was nearly, if not totally, abuse-- Jemma doesn't know that.
I do know that it was very hard in the beginning. If anybody knows where Rockland shopping centre is in Montreal, there is ALWAYS bumper to bumper traffic there, and Jemma's prev owner lives there. In the beginning, when we were stuck in traffic, she'd stare at the lawn she used to pee on and once almost jumped out the window. But that was almost 3 years ago.
I appreciate feedback-- I think no, but I also think I underestimate Jemma's strength sometimes. She's a toughie to survive all that and she is AWESOME. She growls at Boo when his nose is in the trash. She's such an incredible dog.
Who puts their less than 2 month old puppy in a kennel for a MONTH? :mad: (not the woman I'm talking about though, it was another owner before her)
May 30th, 2005, 01:02 AM
Everything Mel said.
May 30th, 2005, 07:31 AM
My 2 girls Currie and Brandy ended up in a sheter when their owners marriage split up and neither could take them, they sat there for 1 month and their mom kept coming to the shelter to see them and they were totally confused, the lady that ran the shelter had to tell her to stop coming because it was very upsetting to them and they did not understand why she left without them everytime, they would stop eating and got very depressed, when we adopted them she called their prevoius owner to let her know they had been adopted she then wanted to know who we were and where we lived but we agreed along with the shelter owner that it was in Currie and Brandy's best intrest for her not to have that info, the last thing we wanted while trying to get them settled in was her popping in and confusing them all over again.
I know she loved her babies and only wanted the best for them, they were very healthy and well looked after but were very sad and timid when we got them and I just could not put them through that. I hope that dosen't sound selfish but I think we had their best intrest at heart.
May 30th, 2005, 07:37 AM
She didn't give birth to the dog so in my opinion, NO she does not have the right to see her again. What would be the purpose of visiting? Send her a picture of how happy and healthy she is and forget about it.
Sorry for being so blunt :mad: Both my dogs are rescues. Chloe who was abused and neglected took years before she settled down and began to trust. She still runs when I take out a broom. I wonder why! Hunter on the other hand was well taken care of as a pup but it still took him a few months to adjust. Seeing his previous owner would confuse him.
In our rescue, all our adoptions are anonymous. If a previous owner wants news they go through one of the rescuers. We must always do what is right for the dog.
May 30th, 2005, 09:23 AM
Well, I voted No. But theres a But....
It depends on the circumstances, so in most cases it would probaby be No. But I think there are circumstances that the dog would learn the don't live with so and so anymore, but can still see them sometimes.
For example in a case like the couple split up, if they hadn't given their dog to a kennel environment, but had arranged adoption directly from their home to a new home, its possible something could've been worked out.
I think kennels are stressful in dogs anyway, so seeing their owner in a kennel and he leaving every time would definately be depressing.
I remember picking up my girl after her spaying -we wouldn't visit her because we didn't want her upset. She lost her mind when she saw us. I'm quite convinced she had started to believe she was going to live at the vet's and never see us again. I can only imagine how she would've reacted if we'd visited her and then left.
Far worse than the time we drove to Newfoundland, and she thought the three of us were going to be living in the car.
Another (and verrrry similar) example I would find it acceptable is if, a new family member was allergic or something, and a friend wanted to take the dog. I don't think it would be too hard for the dog to get used to living with someone he/she already knew as a visitor, while old family becomes the visitors.
Understand what I mean? In cased of abandonment, or wanting to"get rid" of the dog, I'd say NO. In cases where the dog moving is lo longer a choice, I'd say yes. But only in the right circumstances, and only if the dog can adjust well to it. Dogs are like people right? They all handle things differently.
May 30th, 2005, 09:52 AM
It really depends on the circumstances of someone giving up a dog.I know that for Molly my cairn I would never let the people who dumped her see her again,she came to us with so many issues,her legs were so matted they had to shaved and to this day when you call her back for a recall she is still very nervous and hangs back from everyone else.Nell our collie came from a family with seven kids under the age of ten,she had been originally adopted from the SPCA in mtl who did not give any background on her and should never have adopted a collie to this family.She started barking constantantly,nipping at the kids basically being a normal collie in the wrong situation.This family kept her for almost a year,the rescue she was placed through is fantastic and they did the best thing for her by giving her up.Maybe for them I would say yes they could see her.Tough question though
May 30th, 2005, 10:00 AM
No - there is always room for an exception of course, but it would have to be a really good one. Re your new home, Jemma will not have a problem adjusting as home is where you are. New territory to check out with you as the anchor.
May 30th, 2005, 11:01 AM
Thanks for your input. I don't really care what the lady's motives are, I'm looking at it from the point of view of the doggy. If the doggy can't handle it then no reason in the world would let her see Jemma.
I thought of Minority Report where he has a video in 3d of his sun and he talks along with it-- I thought I could give her a dialog to say along with a video of Jemma so maybe it could feel as close as it could to one on one. Maybe.
Keep in mind that this woman is not pushing me, she was just wondering. If I say no, she'll respect my wishes (she has for 3 years already).
May 30th, 2005, 01:55 PM
I'd vote no,I would never allow a former owner to see any of our rescues.
May 30th, 2005, 02:35 PM
Ummm. I put that last one as a joke and someone picked it???
It's crazy though, 28 no's and 2 yes's. I guess I'll go with the overwhelming majority (which was also my gut reaction too).
May 30th, 2005, 02:44 PM
I voted no, but I think that there can be exceptions. If the dog can handle it well, than I don't see a problem with it. If the dog was abused, then I say no.
One of our dogs was a rescue. We had gotten a call that he was in a very bad abusive situation. He was 6 months old at the time. This lady's husband didn't like him and would abuse him. She didn't want him in that situation and so had told someone we knew who in turn called us up. We picked him up, he has been with us ever since. We would never have allowed them to see him again due to his emotional status. It took us a long time to help him adjust and be well socialized. He did eventually see the lady accidently. He didn't recognize her since it had been years later and barked and growled at her. I would have never allowed him to see the abusive man.
I think it really depends on the circumstances that the dog was given up for. Normally it would be no, but there are always exceptions. I think you know your dog best and would know how she would handle it.
May 30th, 2005, 10:04 PM
I wish the small minority who say yes post why they voted as such. :)
And I'd like to know who on a doggy forum thinks dogs are not that complex...
May 31st, 2005, 10:55 AM
I voted YES without reading your specific circumstances. My rationale is based on parents who put their kids for adoption: should they be allowed to visit their biological children? Yes, but only if they pose no physical threat or emotional damage to the kids.
In your particular case, I'm not sure what emotional impact would the previous owner have on Jemma, but thinking from a parent's point of view, if I'm not sure, I won't risk my furbaby's welfare, so I would say "NO" but only to your particular case. You said that the owner was a nice person, do you think Jemma would be happy to see her again? It's really your own call, I don't know the owner and I don't know Jemma, can't offer much of a help, but I do understand the emotional rollercoaster (in a figure of speech) that you must be going through, it's a tough one, I'm glad that I'm not in your position. :grouphug:
May 31st, 2005, 11:05 AM
In my case its my soon to be MILs doberman that we helped her adopt. I wouldnt want his previous owners to see him. From what I understand he was bounced around to a few homes with his last home only lasting a week where they claimed they were allergic. Sure the dog took some time to adjust but after that he was perfect and I dont say that often but he was the most well trained dog I have ever met. Someone put alot of time and money into him just to sell him or give him away. His ears were poorly cropped and he is afraid to give kisses, but he is so happy now. He was only 56lbs when we got him and now he is over 90lbs. His previous owners just passed him along like a used rag and they should never ever be able to see him again. Especially now that he is so happy and healthy.
May 31st, 2005, 04:43 PM
I would say no - also with exceptions. I used to dog sit for a friend of mine, and his dog would stay with me while he was working out of town, sometimes for as long as a month. We had a falling out, and I hadn't seen the guy for probably 4 years or so. My hubby told me that he had been at hunting camp, and was saying how old the dog was getting, and that he probably wouldn't last another winter. I knew that it would be my last chance to see the dog (which I dearly loved) so I drove to hunting camp and picked him up. Even though he hadn't seen me in over 4 years, he knew who I was and practically tried to jump into my arms from the back of the truck he was in (we're talking about 150 lbs of wolf x). I say that Jemma will definitely remember her and it might make Jemma really nervous that she has come to take her back. I wouldn't risk it. I also agree that Jemma won't care where she lives, as long as you and the rest of her pack are there too.
May 31st, 2005, 09:44 PM
Nymph, thanks for answering. I really wanted to hear both sides of this. Of course from the point of view of a human, it would be ok. But as a furmommy, it's a hard decision to make. I wish I could just ask Jemma what she thinks...
greaterdane, I understand in the case of abuse, I would never let the doggy see that person ever again, but in this case, Jemma didn't know she was being abused. I don't think dogs blame you when you're away. They probably do blame you for hitting them, but I doubt they can associate absence for months as being your fault... I don't know. I wish I could ask Jemma what she thinks...
Kandy, you hit my point exactly. The fact that the first owner put her in a kennel for so long and came back and then this one left her for so so so long and came back, I wonder if Jemma will feel like the lady is coming back again... I wish I could ask Jemma what she feels...
I think I'll say no for now, and maybe later when Jemma has FULLY adjusted to the new house, I'll think about it all over again...
(by the way, I have to say I have never seen a poll so strongly pulling for one side)