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whale slaughter update

Crazy Hippie
May 24th, 2005, 12:06 PM
To everyone who took part in the previous thread I posted on whale slaughter, thanks so much, so far over 11,000 people have written to the mayor of Korea. Greenpeace/animal activists are standing strong in Ulsan, Korea, refusing to leave until the mayor changes his plans on building a whale meat factory. I've just received notice of a new photo project, where anyone can participate by sending a virtual photo of him/herself, holding a sign with what you want to say. In this photo protest, your image along with thousands of others, will be projected in front of the building where delegates from dozens of governments will decide if the whales live or die. Please help; 2137 whales could be hunted in 2005! There is a link here to follow if you'd like to read more about it: http://whales.greenpeace.org/

Thanks so much to those who choose to participate..whales are sacred animals to me and I can't even bear the thought of them being destroyed, although I know it still happens even in my own country. I can't believe people are still so barbaric in this day and age! All for the sake of money. :(

Blaze01
May 24th, 2005, 12:35 PM
I dont understand...are whales extinct(sp)...dont we use whale flesh and fat for things? Please dont jump down my throat...i went to the link you provide and it was one sided so i didnt get all the facts. Could you explain your campaign? If I agree then i would be thrilled to post my picture but i want to make sure i have all the information. I will check the other forums that are on this sight.
Thank you for your input and information.

Crazy Hippie
May 25th, 2005, 11:00 PM
Well no whales are not extinct...that is what we are trying to prevent. Many whale species are endangered however. Thanks for checking out the link, and yes, of course it is one-sided, it was put there by people who want only to stop the killing of the whales. Such people (like myself), are animal activists, and our belief is that destroying/exploiting animals is wrong. We don't believe there is another "side" to the matter. Are you familiar with Greenpeace? These people are willing to risk their lives to protect the earth and its living creatures...they are the "crazy people" that chain themselves to trees to prevent forests from being cut down, they have gone to the arctic to spray-paint baby seals, making their white pelts invaluable, and the list could go on forever. The fact of the matter is, in this case, that opening up a whale meat factory will mean that thousands of more whales will be destroyed every year. And we do not believe that using "whale flesh and fat for things" is in the least bit necessary in this day and age. Could you imagine using your cat/dog's flesh and fat for things? I don't mean to sound rude, (hope I don't!), just trying to put our efforts into perspective. Greenpeace is constantly trying to change the world by taking action to protect the environment, and much of this is done through awareness. I posted the whale project because, like I said, whales are very sacred animals to me personally. Please ask if you have any more questions..I have a lot of info on this topic! ;)

Blaze01
May 26th, 2005, 03:54 PM
I think if the whales are close to extinction (spelling is not my thing please forgive) then they should be left alone this i understand. but I beleive animals were put on this world to be used however than can be used. I dont beleive in the suffering of animals but i do believe that God put them here for the use of humans. I am a cat freak and i adore then but the thought of people in other countries eating them isnt a big deal to that is their culture and i respect it. I am not trying to get you fired up or anything i was just interested in this topic. There are alot of things i dont understand about Animal Testing, whaling, killing baby seals or even the fight against IAMS (which i did see the website on them so i wont ever use their products.) I just want to understand someone else point of view. I eat meat and i enjoy because i think god but cows chickens etc etc here for me to eat. I really hope nobody gets to upset about this post but I will admit my ignorance on these subjects and ask for some input.

melanie
May 26th, 2005, 06:17 PM
thank you for the update crazy, we appreciate it. yes many species of whale have become extinct in the past several hundred years to over fishing. many industries thrived on whaling especially here in australia, you can still go and view a few of the old whaling factories at the beach.

for example, the great southern right Whale uses ausie waters for its migration, it has for eons of time. the southern right whale has been fished to near extinction, their numbers were as low as 1000 members at one stage (10yrs ago). now their numbers are around 4000 which may not seem many but is one huge feat for this species, they did number into the tens of thousands at ne stage. not to mention the affect our whale migration has had on our tourism industry, there are whole towns now surviving on the business generated by whale watching tours, saving the great southern right has certinly been beneficial to whale and man ehre.


HERE IS A BLURB I FOUND FROM A LOCAL SITE-Today the Southern Right Whale continues to remain an endangered species despite receiving international protection from commercial whalers since 1935. From a peak population of 100,000 Southern Right Whales in the early 1800s, numbers have now stabilised, and may even be marginally increasing from a low base of 4000 creatures. Between 1820 and 1850 some 26,000 whales were mercilessly slaughtered in Australian and New Zealand waters. And all this mayhem was in order to satisfy man's demand for lamp oil, brushes, candles, and perhaps most insidiously of all, to satisfy the demands of fashion for women's corsets.

Whilst the plight of the magnificent Southern Right Whale may have stabilised, many other whale species are even more acutely threatened. Surprisingly there are nations in the world that still sponsor the commercial exploitation of whales as a food source. Today the nations of Norway, Iceland and the Faroe Islands continue to hunt whales. Perhaps the worst culprit of all is Japan which spuriously maintains its need to hunt Minke Whales and other species in order to conduct scientific studies. In fact nothing could be further from the truth and whale meat continues to be sold as a luxury item and delicacy in expensive Tokyo restaurants.(WWW.NULABORNET.COM)

currently the japanese government wants to start fishing aussie waters again, they want to fish the southern right and a few other species, and they are allowed to. they have the numbers to support them, and the aussie government has done nothing but write a polite letter requesting it cease to the japanese government. it is wrong and uncalled for and must be stopped sadly the aussie govt has no balls and is scared of anyone so they will not upset the japanese :mad:

again thanks crazy will go and check out those sites

Crazy Hippie
May 26th, 2005, 09:22 PM
OH my, dear little Blaze. I'm sad that many people think animals are here to be used at our disposal. Anything we could ever need or want is available to us through other means. But thanks for checking out my post..it's good to see that you're interested. ;) I know you said you don't want animals to suffer...but they do, they all do. Animals used by humans do suffer..whether they are meat cattle, laying hens, dairy cows, circus animals, lab animals, etc. I was raised eating animals and animal products but since I've learned so much about this stuff in the last few years, I have changed my ways so I'm almost completely vegan..no meat/dairy...and I don't buy eggs either...but the frozen yogurt was hard to give up I'll admit! I'm not trying to push my ways on people (well...hehe) but I do like to raise awareness on this stuff. And thanks a lot for the info melanie! I appreciate you posting it! :thumbs up

happycats
May 26th, 2005, 10:50 PM
I think if the whales are close to extinction (spelling is not my thing please forgive) then they should be left alone this i understand. but I beleive animals were put on this world to be used however than can be used. I dont beleive in the suffering of animals but i do believe that God put them here for the use of humans. I am a cat freak and i adore then but the thought of people in other countries eating them isnt a big deal to that is their culture and i respect it. I am not trying to get you fired up or anything i was just interested in this topic. There are alot of things i dont understand about Animal Testing, whaling, killing baby seals or even the fight against IAMS (which i did see the website on them so i wont ever use their products.) I just want to understand someone else point of view. I eat meat and i enjoy because i think god but cows chickens etc etc here for me to eat. I really hope nobody gets to upset about this post but I will admit my ignorance on these subjects and ask for some input.

I beg to differ, I don't believe animals were put here for humans to do what ever to! I believe we were meant to co-exist, not totally use, abuse, torture, violate, poison, trap,and kill just for pleasure .
Don't you find it strange that all other forms of life do a fine job co-existing, untiil of course humans interfere? Humans are the only ones who have a HUGE problem co-existing with other life forms, hell they can't even co-exist with each other!!! We are alos the only ones who destroy the enviornment and totally upset the balance of nature.
Do you think God truly intended that ?

happycats
May 26th, 2005, 10:54 PM
I'm sorry Crazy Hippie, for going off topic :o Didn't mean to take attention away from this great cause!! I think the whale slaughter is as deplorable as the seal hunt and should be stopped!!

Blaze01
May 27th, 2005, 08:59 AM
I have always had a soft spot in my heart for animals. I shouldnt of posted this post because now i seem like a evil person. I just didnt understand her topic so i asked more questions about it. When I said do whatever to animals I meant to eat and use their products. Humans have always used animals for their needs.
How is chicken laying eggs torture?
Milking cows?

These comments I didnt understand.

LavenderRott
May 27th, 2005, 09:11 AM
Blaze, you are not an evil person. You just need us to teach you more.

Chickens that lay eggs that are sold at you local market are generally kept in small cages with very little or no room to even more around. Chickens that are used for food are treated even worse. Most are genetically mutated so that nutrients aren't wasted on such things as oh, beaks, but go directly to the muscles to create better cuts of meat.

Cattle are treated much the same way. Milk cows live their lives in small stalls.

Sorry, but even knowing all of this - I still love chicken and beef. I do draw the line at lamb and veal though.

melanie
May 27th, 2005, 06:51 PM
oh blaze, please feel freeto put up your opinion or questions at anytime, were here to chat and learn together remember :grouphug:

as far as meat and egg production goes, look many animals are kept in horrific conditions in many meat industries, such as the battery hens. (caged chickens most eggs come from) these poor chooks are kept in the teeniest of cages, they have their beaks removed so they cant damage the egg or hurt each other due to stress, their cages are jammed together so that you cna get as many as possible in the shed, most of these chooks have never and will never see day light or feelthe freshness of natural grass under their feet.. they are fed only grains that make them lay, their life span is very short and based on their egg production. it is sickening and oh so sad, just because you ahppen to be born a chicken makes you much less than others with life apparently.

BUT you can help- only buy eggs that come from free ranged birds, and that free living not free range feed (big catch ). you will see on most eggs a little sign saying caged eggs, just get the ones that say free range. they are not that mch more expensive, and hey whats a dollr to enable you to live ethically and morally, klnowoing you are not encouraging this crapppy industry, and their lots yummier and healthier for you. you are also then not supporting one of the cruelest and most inhumane industries of all.

i am a vegetarian, no i dont eat eggs (i think eating ovaries is grose), but i love chickens and have had plenty in the past. there is nothing wrong with chicks laying eggs, or ppl eating them, its natural and is part of their processes (an egg bound chook will suffer great horrid pain and die). so eating eggs is fine, a chock lays one egg a day on average as a natural processs (and you dont wnat all them to turn to chicks, then we have population probs). but all chooks that live with me are valued family members whos health is priority, unlike the *******s that force all these darlin little chicks into tiny cages to live out their life serving the plight of the human desire and stomach.

basically we are all ehre to live toghther, in a symbiotic format, we help them and they help us, but sadly humans dont seem to get that, honestly there is no other animal as destructive, so having this big brain may not be that wonderful evolutionary advantage afterall -- i am never surprised by cruel and stupid humans.....

hope that helps you understand a little, and you keep on putting in your opinion, i for one find it refreshing and encouraging for a good conversation., :grouphug: :grouphug:

Crazy Hippie
May 29th, 2005, 10:59 AM
Blaze please don't feel bad about responding to my post, I'm glad you did! It shows you are open-minded and willing to listen to what I have to say. Most people just want to shut me up when I talk about the animals, I guess so they don't feel guilty about eating them. When I said even laying hens and milk cows suffer, I was referring to the way they are kept, which Melanie did a good job of explaining. Maybe I should elaborate on what I meant...

The thing that bothers me so much about the chickens is that the male chicks are killed right away because they are of no use..they are thrown into meat grinders or suffocated, and the females are kept but their beaks are cut off with a hot blade or in a "debeaker", like a nail clipper. The females are only kept for 1-2 yrs, then they are chopped up and put into soups and such because their bodies are usually too damaged from the living conditions to be sold any other way. I've recently discovered something called "egg replacer" which can be used in baking - it's made with potato starch but works just like eggs...I can finally make cookies again! lol

Milking cows must have calves to produce milk, but their calves are taken and put into tiny crates too small for the calves to even turn around, and they are killed and sold as veal. Not to mention the fact that the cows are so over-worked with the milk production that their udders are often infected or full of sores, and the cows are constantly fed antibiotics. Yuck! I can't even stand the smell of milk any more.

About the whale post, I think you understand why I posted it, but it goes beyond the fact that whales are endangered. The thought of such majestic animals being destroyed, especially the way it is done (not that there is ANY humane way to do it), just brings tears to my eyes. When I was a little girl I used to cry about the seal slaughter and whale slaughter, and wish I was somehow powerful enough to stop it. I didn't know what animal rights activists were, or that they even existed. I thought I was the only one in the whole world who felt that way. It's nice to see that others want to learn about these things...don't be afraid to ask questions!!

melanie
May 29th, 2005, 06:19 PM
jsut a slight correction, but a very important one,

a milking cow does not need to continuously have calves to produce, she need ony ever have 1 calf and can keep on being milked for the rest of her life. the calf is the first stimulant to bring on the milk and then it can be maintained from then on without another pregnancy, it is highly detrimental to both cow and quality of mild to have a calfh continuously, it has never been done and is a misconception. if a cow is used to continually breed it is for two thigs- to supply others with the animal to breed and FOR THE DORECT MEAT INDUSTRY. a cow is worth thousands of dollars, i ahve never met a dairy farmer that kills his cows or keeps them calving (so the calve gets all the milk) it would take a pretty dumb farmer with lots of money to have such a practice. most dairy farmer i know treat their cows just like you would treat anythign that cost you thousands and will bring an income.

when a milking cow has a calf it is either kept on the property to milk, if it is a boy it is then often kept for breeding (dependant on the lines you already have running). if it is a female and is sold it will become a milking cow on another property, milking cows are often specific breeds and their calves are very valuable, its strictly meat production calves that make the veal tables.

looki sorta respect groups such as PETA (sometimes, but they love to misinform ppl for a big reaction) but i have heard them spout this before and it makes me pretty darn angry. i come form a dairy farming family, my father is a normal kind and very gentle famer. when ppl are misinformed about his practices it makes him a target for completly uncaleld for harrassment..there is nothikng wrong with milking cows and drinking it, as a vegetarian i certainly drink milk and take dairy products as i totally understand the industry and know it is not a detrimental or cruel practice. now meat production, thats a whold diff ball game.

but most importantly if you do not milk a dairy cow once it has had a calf it will become very sick and likely die from a excruciatingly painful udder disease called 'MASTITUS". if it does live through the painful mastitus it will be shot as it cannot produce usable milk ever again. a cow is milked daily, once in the morn and sometimes at night depending on your breed. if a cow has sores on its uddersthen that is another issue, it is not from producing milk, the teets of the milk machines are soft and capped with rubber, sores like that would more indicate to me that you ahve a slight disease problem or hygene problem, none of my familys cows that get milked twice a day have sores, and it would not do much for yoru milk either. i dont know about your country but in australia our dairy industry is heavily regulated and tested, anyfarmer with ill cows will not be able to sell his milk.

woman have babies, cows have calves and the natural cycle is there, its abusing it that is wrong. i think its important to remember the roles all animals play in makeing the world work, some naturally produce products such as milk that is useful to us and it is our job to ensure the animal lives a happy healthy life. to me that is the natural way of things. its like my chickens producing egss, if they did not lay they would die, the egg is a byproduct of their natural systems, but again it is abusing them that is wrong, such as giving them life simply to service the family roast on a sunday, i dont think we have the right of life or death over animals, but we can certinaly have a nice healthy symbiotic relationship where we all help each other out and sustain our survival.

so i dont believe the dairy industry is very cruel, its actually quite a natural practice. however its how it is conducted and managed that is an issue.

here is a stanza from my fav vegetarian poem and poet- by the aussie legend Judith Wright

How many creatures bred for food
weve raised and fattened for the time
they met at last the steaming knife,
that serves the feast of death in life.

And as the evening meal is served
we hear the turned down radio
begin to tell the evening news
just as the family joint is carved.

O murder, famine, pious wars...
our children shrink to see us so
in sudden medetation stand
with Knife and for in either hand.


sorry for the length but i come into this issue regularly, and i dont like to see good honesty, incredibly informed caring men like my darlin daddy coping the rapp for the disgusting practices of the meat industry, the two are often confused and i have many vegetarian friends that sadly dont eat or drink dariy because they were misinformed (if they jsut didnt like it i can understand or if they gave first hand researched opinions, i dont do eggs so i understand). yet they will wear leather shoes, drive cars, man humans huh... :D

thanks for listeneing :grouphug:

Crazy Hippie
May 31st, 2005, 01:13 PM
I like the poem Melanie!
Your father sounds like a kind and caring farmer, but they're not all like that. Especially the big commercial milk producing companies. An ex b/f of mine is also from a dairy farm, and his family sees the animals in a totally different way, and that is where I first learned a lot about how some farms may be run, and it was while I was with him that I quit drinking milk or eating dairy. The male calves they produced were used for veal, which is why I would never go into his barn, never associate with the animals because they were all doomed and I knew it, even the milking cows...he told me himself that they were only "good" to produce milk for a few years, then slaughtered, when cows should actually have quite a long life span. Female calves may replace their mothers at some point and I know they take rennet from the stomach but I don't know if it's the veal calves they use this for or what, but my ex used to like to make little jokes about the baby cow bellies in the cheese so I don't eat cheese anymore (you see why we didn't make it as a couple lol). I know that some farmers do artificially inseminate the cows too, to produce more calves and increase milk production...your father obviously doesn't do this but his dad did. It is people like this that give farmers like your dad a bad rap I guess, but they do exist and you don't know where your milk, etc. comes from when you buy it commercially...not to mention the impact all of this has on the environment.

Really I don't know why people ever decided to start drinking animal milk in the first place - it seems quite unnatural when you really think about it. If people want to use it then as long as the animal is treated well and respected and not doomed to be chopped up in the end, I think it is fine, but it's those people who are just greedy for money and don't care about the animals lives or let the animals suffer that really make me angry (ie. people like my ex's parents!). About the mastitis thing, I read that some farmers have antibiotics in the animal feed to prevent it but this will end up in your milk of course. I guess like everything, there's more than one side to this issue; I wrote an essay on this topic last year for an environmental sciences class because I was interested and I did find out some pretty disturbing things about milk production (not from PETA, I promise!). I'm not condoning all farmers and certainly people like your father don't deserve to be given a bad name!

I'm just curious, because I know you said you won't eat eggs since they're from chicken ovaries (or maybe that was someone else I'm not 100% sure), why you want to consume a cow's body fluids? I say this with a smile and I'm not being sarcastic, don't take it the wrong way! :) We're all raised on it I guess so it seems normal. But aren't they kinda...similar? Just wondering your response on this please don't get mad. By the way, I'm not an expert on this of course..my family does not farm so I don't want to come across like a know-it-all - I'm just going by what I've read and I try to stay away from one-sided informants like PETA even though I do support them and their efforts, because they strive to protect animals and prevent animal exploitation. Plus they send me free stickers to help promote my vegan ways! LOL

LavenderRott
May 31st, 2005, 02:42 PM
PETA doesn't strive to protect much of anything. They feel that humans should not depend on animals for anything. While that sounds great on the frontpage - ultimately, the founder of PETA at least, would like to see no more domesticated animals.

Do a bit more digging into PETA and it's practices. From the violence they promote by funding environmental terrorists to the "shelter" in New England they run which excepts stray cats so that they can euthanize them after hours. PETA really doesn't have anything to do with protecting your pets.

Blaze01
May 31st, 2005, 04:28 PM
Is there a difference between PETA and Greenpeace?

melanie
May 31st, 2005, 07:50 PM
Hippy, its funny but i often forget you all dont live in this country. we are aussies and aussie farmers. we come from two very different worlds, societies and cultures. although we are all made fo skin and bone there are so many differences between our countries. most aussie farmers are like my father, they treat their cattle well and respect them as you would any huge financial investment. our dairy industry is heavily regulated and its very well done. we only have a few companies that buy milk here and they are very strict about practice, im sure there are dodgy agents as in anything but most are on the level. in australia our farmers are well respected and are considered the basis of our cool country, ever heard the saying 'riding on the sheeps back'- well that is in reference ot our countires past reliance on farming industries and we still pay them all due respect today, its jsut our culture and a big part of our identiy as a nation, they represent the aussie battler (who all aussies love and relate to), who battles and triumphs..but my discription fits the aussie farmer, probably not a us farmer im sure :o .

as far as eggs- well about 10yrs ago i brought RSPCA eggs. they are supposed to be scanned and free range. well in one carton i got 3 dead chicks in the eggs, i vomited for about a week and that was the last time i ate an egg. i find ppl jsut dont understand many of my practices so to make it simple i jsut state 'i dont eat flesh or anyones ovaries'. i have had baby chickens of my own, who layed and my hubby ate their eggs, i find nothing wrong with that at all, my chooks had to lay or they will become egg bound and die (i owuld never allow that, i loved my babies), and i would never want to overpopulate the world with chicks (you would get alot if you let em go) also without a rooster an egg cannot be fertalised, so if you dont remove it the poor chicken will sit on it and starve itself, eventually becoming quite nasty and protective of the unfertalised egg, its not fair on the girls to get their hopes up or let them hurt themselves. jsut like milk it is a biproduct of a natural process and one that can be very useful in a symbiotic relationship (symbiotic is basically working and living in harmony together, each party benifits from the relationship, it occurs alot in nature).


IN MY OPINION green peace and peta are two very different entities.

as a hard working conservationist, environmental scientist and terrestrial ecologist i find peta set our cause back many years and make me furious with their irrisponsible and certinaly unecologial ways.

PETA focus on whatever gets them attention at the time, they love attention, their leader is one of the most poorly informed ppl i have ever seen and she has no suitable qualifications (and lots of vested interest and really stupid ideas, its embarassing to listen to her), they often use blackmail to acheive their goals, they have no deisre to educte, and they destroy industry without sensible solutions, just to get their way right or wrong. they are currently attacking the aussie wool industry, they have no deisre to educate, jsut anger, antagonise and force change through blackmail and afect hundreds of aussie families that rely on that industry, im not saying its good, but i have come up with millions of ways to improve it, she has not given one sensible idea, shes just nasty, you should have seen her face when she was given a writ explaining that she herself is going to have her arse sued by the wool industry for all losses, she had nothign to say which to me says it al. peta have also been know to be involved with some pretty horrific animal abuse such as closiong down some testing centres yet gaining support from others.

Greenpeace on the other hand are a long standing conservation group that has acheived many wins simply by being ethical and sticking to their guns. they do not blackmail, and try to educate throughout their processes. they have saved thousands of species and supply funding to many projects worldwide. i have never met anyone who is a paying member of PETA, yet most households i know sponsor greenpeace for their good work and ethical standings. i grew up with greenpeace, (my father will never forgive the french for past actions with greenpeace, my father was hurt and traumatised by the sinking of the greenpeace ship the rainbow warrior) (french terrorists sank it in auckland harbor with ppl on board). it was actually one of the biggest horrors of my fathers time and he has never recovered. so we were big greenpeace supporters and my father enforced strict following to ensure they got support..so i have been a member gosh for at least 20yrs. and in that time i have seen greenpeace do wonders, jsut see what theydid to stop the whaling industries.

look there are many groups out ther that pay the environment lip service, such as PETA, then there are ppl like greenpeace that actualyl do something, often at the risk of their lives for the environment they love and will die for. you can even get a job with green peace over here, you do surveys in shopping malls for $25 an hr which is fantastic. (so they help our env and our unemployed).

i jsut find extremists such as peta not very helpful, it seems to be just a money making excersise form what i cna tell.

NOw the world wildlife fund for nature is also brilliant, i am currently working on a propagation project they have sponsored to reestablish a local endangered plant species. now to me that is an affirmative action, it is doing something, far more than i ahve ever seen PETA do. (i am getting great results if your interested, the propagation method i came up with is going well, so hopefully we will have a population established in no time). now that is affirmative and practicle, i am yet to see anything so practicle come from PEta.

few, now i fell better, good rant. :p