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Breeding for a profit?

SarahLynn123
May 17th, 2005, 04:59 PM
As Ive read in this site, reputable breeders dont breed for a profit, they barely break even. Where does all the money go? If they are selling there pups for $600 (just a guess at a price) and have 4 to sell, thats $2400. Seems like alot of money to not be making a profit.
(Im having a debate on another site and this came up.)
Thanks
Sarah

LavenderRott
May 17th, 2005, 05:15 PM
Well, if you are assuming that your "reputable" breeder is breeding dogs that are championed and have working titles, genetic tests are done, good quality food is fed, parents and pups are properly vetted - the costs for all of this can run into the thousands. Showing, either conformation or obedience (including agility, tracking, herding) gets pretty expensive and there are classes for the obedience ones besides.

That doesn't even begin to cover the time spent getting the adults to adulthood with the aforementioned titles.

kandy
May 17th, 2005, 05:15 PM
A reputable breeder would have their dogs run through all the tests required for the breed (for my newf it would be xrays for displaysia and an ultrasound for heart conditions). Then, there is the stud fee (or you let the stud owner have pick of the litter). Then you have extra vet bills while the dog is pregnant, including ultrasounds to see how many pups, etc. Then you have exams and shots for the new pups as well as increased food bills for the nursing mother, the cost of the whelping supplies, etc., etc., need I go on?

Lizzie
May 17th, 2005, 05:21 PM
Some of the more expensive ones come pre-speutered as well.

There is also the cost of transporting the female dog to her mate.....reputable breeders don't usually have both dogs with them. They research and find the absolute best dog to mate with their dog. This often means travelling across the country or throughout North America to have the two dogs "get together." This costs a lot of money and can be recouped in the costs of the puppies.

Prin
May 17th, 2005, 05:46 PM
Most breeders don't have just one or two dogs either. They've got like 10. So vet bills, food and even showing costs add up fast.

Vas
May 17th, 2005, 10:18 PM
By the way, I don't think you can get a puppy from a reputable breeder for around 600$. I suppose the puppy will be at least 1000 and more. Does somebody actually have an idea on prices for a happy and healthy puppy?

Jackie467
May 17th, 2005, 10:36 PM
also don't forget that these pups are coming from a champion and you can easily spend $500 at least on one show that you may not have even got a champ point for and I believe you need 15 points to be a champ. therefore they already lost money before they could even breed.

wjranch
May 17th, 2005, 10:51 PM
I bought my Dobie pup on a non-breed contract for $1600 Cdn. He came with a clean bill of health, all his shots to that point, ears cropped ($400 worth) and tail docked. It was a litter of 9 pups, for a grand total of $14,400 Cdn. subtract $1600 for the pick of litter to stud owner
Now the break down of costs??
Stud fee of $750 Cdn plus pick of litter
Vetting and feeding of a brood bitch (guessing here but, $150 food, $200 Vet) = $350
whelping (assuming no vetting needed, but, your costs of keeping the proper environment for her, whelping box, heat lamps if needed, blankets, pillows, laundry, cleaners...etc...etc)$150 or so
Pups first vet visit at between 2-4 weeks... Cost $500 roughly for the check up
first shots on each puppy with deworming About $50 per pup = $ 450
second shots on each puppy with deworming About $50 per pup = $ 450
Ears and tails total about $400 per pup = $3600
puppy food beginning at 3-4 weeks until 8-9 weeks X 9 hungry puppies!! $200 at least!
So the grand total that I can think of off the top of my head (EXCLUDING showing the stud or bitch to titles..that's a whole other story!) = $6450 Cost on the pups alone! Not the cost of keeping the bitch healthy all year long OR the cost (which is pretty huge) for showing her to her titles..... but, for a reference a weekend showing could easily cost upwards of $78 entry fees, $240 professional handler, $100 grooming, = $418
Plus...... $??? however much in training and travel

So, do good honest breeders breed for profit, not really...... breeding is very costly both financially and in your time.
:) Hope this helps you understand better what a good breeder goes through

P.S. I didn't even include the health testing on the stud or bitch either!! That is easily in the hundreds or possibly thousands of dollars in my breed for sure...hips, eyes, heart, VWD... and possibly a few other issues depending on the bloodlines.

wjranch
May 17th, 2005, 10:53 PM
I believe you need 15 points to be a champ.


10 points actually, but, they have to under different judges and not all at the same show... (little more complicated that that, but, basically how it works)
:D

Safyre
May 17th, 2005, 11:11 PM
Vas - My dog was $850. Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever. Father is champion, mother .. not sure the term, she was shown in agility, mother/father genetics tested. The pups were delivered by c-section, she carried only 4 pups. My dog was fully vet checked, dew claws removed, and microchipped when I got her.
My breeder only has 5 dogs. He only has one breeding bitch at a time. His next litter is not for over two years.
I don't think you can get a happy healthy pure bred for under $600 ... despite what my local pennysaver tells ppl. *grrr*

Jackie467
May 17th, 2005, 11:21 PM
10 points actually, but, they have to under different judges and not all at the same show... (little more complicated that that, but, basically how it works)

That is still a lot of money into showing. I mean you don't win every time you go in the ring and even if you did it would still be 10 times lol. It must have changed since my stepdad showed akitas, it was 15 points then, but that was like 15 years ago so it's possible it changed. He said he can't even begin to caculate the costs of breeding, on one litter he would lose a couple thousand easily with 4 pups costing about a 2,500 for show quality and 800-1,000 for pet quality. (prices depend on breeds too, rare breeds are sold for more than the more common breeds)

SarahLynn123
May 18th, 2005, 08:54 AM
Thanks so much for your responses! I knew I was on the right track but didn't know exactly how to prove it! I still like my old mutts but hopefully I got my point accross to these guys. (They were trying to tell me the newpaper is an excellent source of reputable breeders)

Well see how it goes.

Thanks again!!!

Sarah

kandy
May 18th, 2005, 09:36 AM
I also forgot to mention that there is always a risk of losing the mom when you breed. For me, that alone would make breeding a non-issue. I am definitely not going to risk my babies health not to mention life so that I can sell a few pups.

By the way, the breeder I get my newfs from charges $1200 US for a black, $1400 US for a landseer and $1600 US for a pewter. Hazel is a pewter and came to us with her initial shots done, healthy pup checkups and microchipped.

Safyre
May 18th, 2005, 09:47 PM
Kandy - thats a completely valid point.
my breeder lost his Annie at just under 3 yrs carrying 9 pups. She was vet checked on the saturday and he found her dead ofa heart attack on tuesday. it was horrible. This JUST happened back in December too.