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Pit Bulls

ANBshilling
May 13th, 2005, 10:22 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/05/12/national/main694926.shtml

What do you guys think about this story? :sad:

What breed are pit bulls anyway? Are they staffordshire terriers?

Vas
May 13th, 2005, 10:54 PM
In my home country I've heard about a chow chow that killed a baby when he was left alone with a dog. Strangely the family decided to keep the dog and blamed themselves for what had happened! And I've heard of another similar accident with two rotveiler dogs. So not just pitbulls can turn to agression. It depends from dog to dog.
There are very sweet pitbulls as there are vicious ones. I know there are people who defend pitbull breed, but personally I just don't like these dogs and they scare me. There are countries (e.x: Germany) where pitbulls are forbidden. You'll just never know what people are capable of doing with this breed...

LavenderRott
May 14th, 2005, 12:27 AM
You'll just never know what people are capable of doing with this breed...

That is right, you never know what PEOPLE are capable of doing with this breed.

Training to fight often includes young puppies being tied into burlap sacks, the sacks hung from trees and then beaten with sticks.

ANY breed of dog is capable of killing a human being. While it is not likely that a toy poodle could kill a 125 pound woman, there was a case of a pomeranian that killed an infant.

Since there is technically no such thing as a pit bull, several breeds are often lumped into bans. And mixes thereof. By the time the paperwork is done, a labrador retreiver starts to look an awful lot like a pit bull.

"Pit Bulls" are wonderful therapy dogs and are used as Search and Rescue dogs. It is all in the genetics and training. If you breed a pair of aggressive chihuahuas together - you get aggressive puppies. Same with the pit breeds. While the standard may say that the dog may be aggressive towards dogs - not one says that they may be aggressive towards people. When the fighting breeds were being developed aggression towards people was a death sentence for the dogs. But then, back then they took care of their dogs and didn't throw them in dumpsters to die of their injuries like people do now.

And yes, Staffordshire Terriers are often lumped into "pit bull" bans. Even though there isn't a single recorded case (that I can think of) of a registered Staffie ever killing anyone.

As for the couple whose chow killed their infant - it was absolutely their fault. You NEVER, NEVER leave a child, let alone an infant, alone with a dog. Of any breed.

Lucky Rescue
May 14th, 2005, 01:20 AM
http://www.realpitbull.com/

http://pbrc.net/petbull/pospress.html

http://www.rescueeverydog.org/pitbull_breed.html

Joey.E.CockersMommy
May 14th, 2005, 01:33 AM
I am confused I saw on a site somewhere that you shouldnt confuse the pitbull with the american stafforshire terrier and now it says they are basically the same dog.

Lucky Rescue
May 14th, 2005, 08:51 AM
The general concensus among pit bull owners is that the American Staffordshire Terrier is simply a pit bull with AKC/CKC registration papers.

Lise
May 14th, 2005, 09:15 AM
According to CKC registered breeders,the Amstaff and the pit bull bloodlines are distinct and have been for many years.Neither the AKC or CKC recognizes American Pit Bull Terriers (UKC does) so an Amstaff with either AKC or CKC papers should not have should not have pit bull in it's recent background.At least that's how it's supposed to work and with a good breeder it does.

levimh
May 14th, 2005, 09:32 AM
I wonder what happened in that appartment. It doesn't seem like the dogs would just attack their owner when they were happy and healthy. It's a sad story though. Especially since they're just going to euthanize these dogs now. :sad:

kandy
May 14th, 2005, 09:54 AM
The bad thing is, no one will ever know what really happened in that apartment. I have heard of normally docile dogs suddenly getting aggressive and when they do an autopsy they find brain tumors or something similar. Since I doubt that anyone will do an autopsy on these dogs, we'll never know. I would agree that one probably started the attack, and the other joined in. It's too bad though, pit bulls have a bad enough reputation - you very rarely see the media relate a good story about pit bulls!

levimh
May 14th, 2005, 12:20 PM
I'd like to think that the dogs got in a fight and the owner stepped in to help. :)

I wish they wouldn't put them down though...seems like something can be done with them.

Dahlia
May 14th, 2005, 12:39 PM
That is such a sad story. Makes you wonder what did happen. Maybe the dogs did get into a fight and the man stepped in to help. Or maybe he was "disciplining" one of the dogs and the other one attacked him, or something like that. There have been several cases in our area of pitbulls mauling children, and the dogs are usually tied outside or in pens and probably not very well taken care of and untrained, and the kids were probably taunting them. Not that that makes it any better, but, you know what I mean. But to kill their adult owner? That is just strange.

mona_b
May 14th, 2005, 12:54 PM
This is definately a very sad story.BUT it's not the first time...I recall a couple of years ago,a woman(I think in her 50"s) was killed by her 2 Pits that she had for years.The family said she loved and adored her dogs and would do anything for them.I am trying to remember where I had read it.That could take a while...LOL

Vas
May 14th, 2005, 03:06 PM
I'd like to think that the dogs got in a fight and the owner stepped in to help. :)

I wish they wouldn't put them down though...seems like something can be done with them.

I think that these dogs should/must be put down. They didn't just nip their owner, they mauled him to death! Is there any rescue who would risk putting such dog for adoption one day?

levimh
May 14th, 2005, 03:12 PM
I didn't say they had to be put up for adoption, I just wish they could do something - anything - with them, rather than put them down. I hate to see any animal killed or euthanized, even if they did maul their owner.

Prin
May 14th, 2005, 05:25 PM
I know a guy who has had to go to the hospital a few times for getting rampaged on my his golden retriever. They would say the same thing-- she's got a shiny coat, she's a bit over weight, goes to the vet, etc, but it won't say that when no one is looking, he beats her (not hard enough to leave bruises) and he doesn't know anything about dogs, so when she gets into a fight, he jumps in and gets mauled.

If you're going to get a second doggy, I suggest you learn how to break up a dog fight, just in case... ;)

babyrocky1
May 14th, 2005, 09:14 PM
The thing about situations like this is that theres no way we can figure out what happened, what Kandy said about the brain tumor, makes the most sence to me.
Even if the two dogs were fighting and the owner tried to stop them it would be extrememly unusual for the dogs to turn on the owner. Pits or not Pits, I dont think that makes a difference, infact, according to the breed history, fighting in pits with handlers as "refs"they were bred to respect the human handler, even in the heat of battle. The worse thing about these storys is as owners we feel like we have to explain the behaviour of every pit bull in North America, Alot of times animal behaviourists can come up with an explanation but I think somethings you just will never know. This is a very uncommon situation.

babyrocky1
May 14th, 2005, 09:31 PM
Thanks for those links Lucky, Ive looked at them all quickly and will be using them for reference later! I loved the Pittie heroes section. :)

moontamara
May 14th, 2005, 09:36 PM
I wonder what happened in that appartment. It doesn't seem like the dogs would just attack their owner when they were happy and healthy. It's a sad story though. Especially since they're just going to euthanize these dogs now. :sad:

Do you really believe that the dogs' deaths are the saddest part of the story? I can't imagine how someone could feel that way.

Anyway, my guess is that just one of the dogs did the mauling -- and the tumour theory or something similar is a likely possibility.

In my opinion, putting these dogs to sleep in the most humane way possible is the only option and the kindest one for all concerned, even the dogs themselves.

levimh
May 14th, 2005, 10:49 PM
"Do you really believe that the dogs' deaths are the saddest part of the story? I can't imagine how someone could feel that way."


Yes. I have to say I do. I was in no way saying that this man's death was not sad, but I personally think that it's sad that there is nothing that can be done to any dog that has done something like this. Obviously no one will want to adopt them - yes, and obviously they might not end up having an awesome life otherwise, but they'll be alive. My point is, I just don't like seeing animals killed for any reason.

It just doesn't seem like these dogs would to do on there own...out of the blue.

LavenderRott
May 14th, 2005, 11:02 PM
Sorry, but there really is no option but to euthanize the dogs. No rescue will take or place a dog with a history of aggression, let alone a fatal attack. There are too many good, stable dogs needing homes.

There are worse fates then euthanization. If, heaven forbid, I had to get rid of my issue ridden beagle mix, I would put her to sleep if I couldn't find someone who understood her issues and could deal with them. Being alive would not be better for her then a life in a cage (she is claustrophobic) or with a family that just tied her in the yard.

Just my .02.

moontamara
May 15th, 2005, 04:12 AM
"Do you really believe that the dogs' deaths are the saddest part of the story? I can't imagine how someone could feel that way."


Yes. I have to say I do. I was in no way saying that this man's death was not sad, but I personally think that it's sad that there is nothing that can be done to any dog that has done something like this. Obviously no one will want to adopt them - yes, and obviously they might not end up having an awesome life otherwise, but they'll be alive. My point is, I just don't like seeing animals killed for any reason.

It just doesn't seem like these dogs would to do on there own...out of the blue.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then. Thanks to responding to my question in such a reasonable way without getting offended. I'm impressed! :)

levimh
May 15th, 2005, 08:54 AM
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then. Thanks to responding to my question in such a reasonable way without getting offended. I'm impressed! :)


Of course I'm not offended. Everyone has different opinions. :D

Vas
May 15th, 2005, 09:56 AM
Another scenario of this story is that the owner may have died from natural causes and then was mauled by dogs. The case would be even worse! No normal dog will maul his dead master even if the owner hurted him in any way. I'm fascinated by battered dogs love and forgivenness, but vengeance or agressivness for any reason has no excuse.

If there was a dog prison then these two pitbulls should be put behind bars for the rest of their life. :) But there is no such thing, so the only humane means of dealing with situation is euthanasia. No one will take such dogs because there are hundreeds sweet loving pets that are waiting for a warm place and a food bowl.

BoxerRescueMTL
May 15th, 2005, 10:05 AM
No one will take such dogs because there are hundreeds sweet loving pets that are waiting for a warm place and a food bowl.

Yuppers, and there are hundreds of sweet, loving pits that are waiting for a warm place and a food bowl. ;)

Cheers!

LavenderRott
May 15th, 2005, 10:11 AM
You know, it really could have been anything. It was a male and female dog - were they neutered/spayed? Maybe the female was in heat. Maybe there was a high value treat involved and dogs that were supposed to be seperated were not. Maybe the dogs have dog aggression problems and were kept seperated in the home, but one got free. Like I say, we will never know what prompted the killing of the owner.

My beagle mix came to me with food aggression issues. While she no longer attacks the cat for walking past the dish - she is not one to share her food. There was a point where she would have seriously fought to protect a bone or other high value treat. And I promise you - had I stuck my hand in to intervene in a fight - she would have had no problem taking a chunk out of it.

Lucky Rescue
May 15th, 2005, 10:37 AM
You have to ask yourself why a breed of dog, who for a hundred years was cherished as a loving family pet, working dog, farm dog etc, and who was pictured as a symbol of strength and courage in the US, is now behaving in such an aberrant way.

Why did this begin in the 1980s? A certain faction of society decided they wanted to pervert these people loving dogs for their own twisted needs. Even the gentle working dog, the Rottweiler, has been demonized. Very sad.

Here is the traditional and historical image of the pit bull, long before the wannabes, druggies, punks and DMX's got their hands on the breed.

levimh
May 15th, 2005, 10:46 AM
That's a great picture.

babyrocky1
May 15th, 2005, 11:06 AM
The Picture Says It All!