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The High Cost of Driving

May 10th, 2005, 03:47 PM
Gas prices here are at an all time high.. over a dollar a litre now. $1.01 I paid yesterday :eek: They've been this way for some time now.
I dont drive much, but for those that do, this must be an awful expense.

I magine its slightly variable but basically about the same across Canada.. and the U.S too. Or ...maybe we are really paying the most in the West. How much is gas currently in your area?

Do rising costs of gas ever prompt you to consider alternatives? Transit, carpooling.. cycling to work?
Or do you just grin and bear it.. keep on paying :rolleyes: .

May 10th, 2005, 03:52 PM
my husband and I gave up our car over a year ago, we ahve bussed, walked or cabbed it ever since, and we dont often miss it, and its saved us over 400$ monthly in car and car related bills


May 10th, 2005, 03:55 PM
Well,here in Oakville gas was 85.9 cent/liter,we've NEVER gone up to $1.00,for some reason I thought it would be cheaper out west,with oil-rich Alberta next door.
There is no alternative for us,hubby has to drive to work,with public Transit it would probably take him 3 hours to get to work and the hours he works,there is no public transit to take him home.
We just put the Jeep Cherokee into retirement for the summer and drive our smaller Volvo,good on gas!!

May 10th, 2005, 03:55 PM
My man and I already drive little cars, but honeslty I can't complain. In Europe they pay at least double. I'll be glad when gas goes up because those disgusting SUV's will slowly disappear. You can't even imagine how many Hummers sit in bleddy traffic with one person in them. Disgusting. I'll be much happier when Smart cars, Prius, and other worthwhile hybrids as well as the clean diesels and really cool little cars they currently have in Europe come over here and take over. There is an Audi diesel in Europe that emits cleaner air than it takes in. There are also Corolla hatchbacks, Audi A3's, and tiny diesels that I wish would come here.

Sorry, SUV drivers, but I will never see the need for anything larger than a station wagon for personal use. If you are trekking around a ton of stuff for work, maybe. But not for commuting, not for status, and not because you go camping 1ce a year.

I'm hoping they pass a law that says you are not allowed SUV's in the downtown area without a permit that states you need it for work (like for construction equipment etc). There is no reason Joe Businessman needs a hummer or a pickup truck down town.

May 10th, 2005, 04:08 PM
I totally agree with you, Prin. I can't understand the need for a Cadillac SUV or one of those ultra-large behemoths that cost an average of $150 to fill up. :confused: I drive a Honda CR-V, which is classified as an SUV, but is really small in comparison and is actually better on gas than my former Dodge mini-van was. :p And, since I've become a stay-at-home Mom, I rarely drive anywhere except for groceries on the week-end, so I really feel I'm doing my bit for the environment these days. I think more gas evaporates from my tank than I actually burn lately. :rolleyes: There are more and more Smart Cars on the roads around here these days, which I think is great! I would so get one of those if I didn't have the kids, the dog and all their gear to cart around everywhere we go. :crazy:

May 10th, 2005, 04:08 PM
A neighbour has a new white Hummer with black accessories. Do I hate this car - he has matching sports clothing. Yuck. Shouldn't be on the road. I agree re the European cars - small - but with style that is lacking in North America. Regrettably many of the people I know who drive the biggest gas guzzlers have car allowances - gas, insurance etc. paid for by their employer. And I am not talking about people who use their vehicles for work, I mean car allowance as an executive perk. These people usually have 2 vehicles - the SUV and a BMW or similar. The gas goes into the bigger car. I also think there should be separate parking area. My poor little Saturn always seems to get sandwiched between 2 of the biggest types and I can't see to back out. I think I paid about 86 cents a litre the other day - came to $48.00 to fill - almost on empty but not quite. Usually send my husband to fill it but the Eskie and I almost ran out of gas and I absolutely did not want to deal with that scenario.

May 10th, 2005, 04:09 PM
I'm with you Prin. I HATE BIG CARS!

Unfortunately...I drive one. It was free and my first car, so I can't complain. But we only use it for errands and groceries one day a week so it's not bad.

I plan on buying a car in about a year. I wanted a Smart Car, but now with the dog, it is too small! They are bringing the Smart 4 seater (Smart forfour) to Canada in Sept. 2006 so if I can wait that long, that is what I will get. I am obsessed with the smart cars!

If/when I start working outside the home again, I hope I can ride my bike to work!

Oh yeah...Shamrock wanted to know gas prices. In my suburb outside toronto, I can usually get gas midweek for 78 cents a litre.

May 10th, 2005, 04:14 PM
Gas prices here generally fluctuate between $0.80 to $0.855. And it is expected to climb higher as the summer hits due to summer activities like boating. It is much more than we are used to seeing, but like Prin said, in Europe it is much more expensive! The thing with European cars though is that they are much more fuel economical. Their little cars have great power and use up mush less fuel than our much bigger North American cars.

I have no choice but to use my car to get to work and home. My husband and I commute together, this way one car is used and the other stays in the garage. It would cost way too much for me to take transit in to work. Much more so than driving my car. (I would have to take GO Transit and then TTC). My husband and I drive compact cars not big gas guzzlers. No offense to those who have SUVs, I too love them and wish I could have one, but it is not something that would be necessary given my current lifestyle. My little car suits me fine.

May 10th, 2005, 04:35 PM
I agree a Hummer,or a giant Caddie SUV,is ridiculous...but we are now driving our fourth Jeep Cherokee.I do not understand what all the fuss is about,to me the millions of mini-vans(not so mini)are more of an obstacle on the road and in parkinglots.
My husband drives the QEW,400 and 401 to get to work,he has NEVER stayed home because of a snowstorm,they are excellent cars,with all the luxuries of any luxury-car.
I used to be terrified driving on snowy roads,the 4X4 Jeep is a dream,but of course you still have to take it easy,not like some I've seen.
We also drive it down to South Carolina every year,it's big,it's comfortable and you feel safer,when the big rigs rush by you.
As I said,there is no need for a 4X4 in the summer,so we drive our"little"Volvo,but that is as small as I would ever go,to me doing a lot of highway driving,I would feel very unsafe in a little dinky-toy :D
Mind you,as soon as we can get a Hybrid SUV,we certainly will....if the price is ok.

May 10th, 2005, 04:48 PM
Yes I finally got fed up with the seventy dollar fill ups. I have just ordered a new car - it's a Toyota Echo (Canada's greenest non hybrid car). Can't wait for it to arrive.

I picked this little hatchback as the two dogs will go in there with the seats down with out a problem. Alison has a Lexus we use for long trips without the dogs so her comment was defensive when she said 'you're a guy you need a truck' but I convinced her that I usally only drive with a single passenger at most and at other times with dogs in the back so the second row of seating in the Trooper was wasted on most of my daily drives.

The plan is to take some of the tens of thousands I will save in gas and car payments over picking the SUV and rent an SUV when we travel with the dogs.

Still I miss my truck already....and I'm still driving it. :sad:

May 10th, 2005, 05:13 PM
Jeep Cherokees SAFE? I don't think so. Only the 1995 and 96 models were safer... And the firewall in them is terrible. In most frontal collisions, the engine breaks though the firewall and crushes the legs of the passengers.

People get this idea that bigger = safer, and that's not necessarily true. If you have a huge suv with no side impact beams or crumple zones, you are less safe than a smaller car with side beams and proper crumple zones. And on top of that, SUV's roll more than anything.

And do you want it on your conscience that you are likely to kill anybody in a car that you hit? I never understood that. SUV drivers should be more careful. If you hit someone in the side going 17mph, they will die. You on the other hand will have to live with the fact that you killed someone in your quest for "safety". Most accidents are not with big rigs. They are with other passenger vehicles. And in that case, YOU become the big rig. I wouldn't want to be responsible for that. I wouldn't want to jeopardize anyone else's safety. I would rather have a tiny car that is build properly.

Go here and compare your car with others. Look at the roof. The safer cars' roof holds its shape better. And look at the femur load at the bottom. For some SUV's it's ENORMOUS. Other SUV's drivers get their left foot chopped off somehow in a frontal collision. Compare a Jeep Cherokee with any Honda or Toyota.

May 10th, 2005, 05:16 PM
Petrol in England is sooooooooo expensive! When we lived there we drove a VW Polo (picture a Golf - now cut it in half.. . thats about how big it is) And it cost me 35 a week to fill it (thats about $70CAD) There was just no public transit options for me (I worked in the office for a Paintball park in the middle of a forest!)

During the petrol strike 3 years ago, prices shot right up to 1.50 a litre!

Now that we live in Montreal, we just walk or take the metro. . .but I do miss having a car. . . .

May 10th, 2005, 06:04 PM
I live in the boondocks and drive 15 miles to work. We don't have cab service and the public transit system here sucks! You could wait as much as 3 hours for them to show up (it's not a normal bus system). I have no choice but to drive and I would not be driving a ice skate with wheels. Traffic on the highway is so congested with 18 wheelers and they are so inconsiderate, not to mention dangerous that I would feel like I was naked on the highway. I don't like hummers, and I cannot imagine filling them up with gas (interest rates on personal loans are too high). I drive a Dodge Intrepid and my husband walks to work although we own a truck that we use to pull the camper and the boat. Gas right now is $2.15 a gallon here. I also worked in a body shop for 6 years, and some car companies ideas of safer vehicles are a joke! Of course, that was years ago and I am sure they have gotten safer, but I would much rather be driving something that will handle the impact of a deer instead of crumpling like newspaper. Just my 2 cents!!

Rick C
May 10th, 2005, 06:42 PM
I drive a Durango, mostly rural driving, and I don't mind the price of gas given the ancillary benefits of owning an acreage with the mountains stretching from horizon to horizon and the price going straight up because its located next door to Calgary, the oil and gas capital of Canada.

Of course, that would make me a shallow person . . . . :evil:

When I was in college in Calgary in the mid-70's, dirt poor, one of our profs drove a gigantic big blue, gas guzzlin', boat of a brand new Cadillac. Being environmentally sensitive and wet behind the ears, we quizzed him on this given he was destroying the environment. "Why do you drive such a terrible Cadillac!!??

His reply, which I haven't forgotten over the span of 30 years, was: "Because I can afford it!!" followed by a manaical cackle of a laugh.

When it gets unaffordable, people will downsize. Before then . . . .

Rick C

May 10th, 2005, 08:27 PM
I drive a Durango

You got a Hemi in that? Nice truck and what a great view....and no Michael Bryant all you pit bull lovers. Calgary just looks better and better all the time doesn't it.

Actually we just lost a project manager to Calgary. She has a Golden so she's gonna love all those dog parks and that view.

May 10th, 2005, 09:58 PM
I competlely understand the rants about the large cars, but please remember that small cars are terrible in accidents.
I drive a Ford Focus, I LOVE my car, i get GREAT milage on it, gas is 83.5 here today (my mom works at 711, i always know gas prices) but I also realize that I am a sitting duck in my car if I were to get hit! So yes, small cars are great for the enviroment, but lets all hope that the death/serious injury rate does not increase attempting to save the enviroment.

May 10th, 2005, 10:10 PM
I can say that a jeep cherokee is pretty darn safe. I had a 2000 cherokee, took it around a corner way too fast hit the gravel and wrapped myself around a guard rail, i went through the window but because of my seat belt I was fine, just had a sore head. The front end damage set of the air bag and the guard rail wrapped through the backseat. Even though the pole was large enough to put my engine into my lap and the force was great enough, it stayed put and my legs were fine. I also have to give credit to my pontiac grand am. I have been in 3 accidents none of which were my fault :) And all of which my car has held up to. Its a 2000 grand am so it has all those extra peices on the outside which to me equals extra padding. I was even hit by a drunk driver in it, and my car stood up. Its crappy on gas and I have had nothing but problems, but it has saved my life twice :) Youd think I would just ride the bus after all that, but I still continue to drive ;)

May 11th, 2005, 08:21 AM
Prin,what you are saying just does not make sense,if I should ever be involved in an accident(knock on wood,I never have!)and hit a tiny Honda who's swerving in and out of lanes,it's my fault because I drive an SUV :confused: In your reasoning it's better if we both die???
How many kids are killed and seriously hurt each year in their tiny monster-Hondas???
Common sense will tell you,you ARE safer in a larger car and my Jeep,not a new one but a 1998 is a very safe car,if there is such a thing,every bit as safe as my Volvo.
We just made the misstake of bying one with a large engine,a V8 5,9L and it certainly is a gas-guzzler,but I pay for the gas not you or anyone else,we only have 80.000 km on it,because of mostly winterdriving.
Someone said,why does anyone need an SUV? Why does anyone need a mini-van???The same idea.
You have two kids and you need a mini-van???Some mini-vans are just as much gas-guzzlers as SUV's and every bit as"unsafe"..
Here's our "monster" :D

May 11th, 2005, 08:42 AM
chico2 I agree with you, your jeep is safer then any car, I like the idea of being higher aswell.I drive a sunfire, I'm sure if I was hit by someone my car would be crushed, your jeep might have a dent. I believe to each their own, drive what you can afford like you said you pay the gas not anyone else. Only my opinion :)

May 11th, 2005, 09:38 AM
Goldenblaze,thank''s just this anti-SUV thing is becoming a bit tireing,I could name several cars,pick-up trucks and mini-vans just as much gas-guzzlers as my Jeep.
At our age,with the kids flown the coop,we buy what we can afford and what we like,for comfort,style and safety...
I,even now am a bit of a car-nut,like the ROAR of a big engine,not very practical I know :D My Volvo sounds like a sewingmachine :D but it's great for whipping around town...
I had a 1984 V8 Camero,which I grudgingly gave up a few years ago :sad: ,now THAT was an unsafe car..

Rick C
May 11th, 2005, 10:04 AM
Since I live in the country and drive nasty, snow and ice covered rural highways in the winter, usually in the dead darkness of the early morning or evening, I don't make any apologies for owning a Durango.

Also, a point that might be lost on urban dwellers, I've yet to hit a deer, moose or elk on a dark morning (a lot of close calls), but I'm pretty confident I'll survive if I'm in a Durango whereas a lesser vehicle would have the animal scooped up and tossed through the windshield.

We also have an Acura and I'm scared crapless driving that thing around in the dark in the country.

Rick C

May 11th, 2005, 10:18 AM
People should own the type of vehicle that suits their lifestyle..and budget.

If you don't require an SUV and can't afford the high cost of gas, then I agree, don't buy one. But if you've got the money for one, and the need, then go ahead. I personally have no use for one--I live within a city, scoot around town, and take the bus during bad weather...a compact car does me fine.

As far as saving the earth, the easiest way to solve this problem is to have the manufacturers build cleaner cars. Period. There are far too many environmentally hazardous vehicles on the road right now to do it any other way.

Besides, as far as I'm concerned, the vehicles that need to be off the road are the old, big and clunky cars that spew their toxic fumes in excess. They are void of having to pass the air quality testing, and are, without a doubt, major polluters.

May 11th, 2005, 10:23 AM
I live along one of the worst stretches of Interstate 80 for winter driving. Big rigs wreck quite often and they'll close the highway - in which case I have to take this really nasty dirt road to get to work. If I drove some bitty little thing, I'd never make it! And around here, your vehicle better have some weight to it or it'll never hold up to the 40 mph "breezes" that are all too common. We also have lots of wildlife that get hit on the highway - mostly deer, but on the secondary highways you also see cows get hit quite often since we have free range here. I've seen what a cow can do to a one ton, double cab truck - I'd hate to see what it would do to a little hybrid car! :eek:

RickC: Love that photo - nice scenery!

May 11th, 2005, 11:40 AM
Safyre-the small car rule is not always true. THe new smart car is the smallest car on the road but safer than most SUVs. THe Kia Sportage (and all Kias for that matter) are HORRIBLE cars for injuries.

I used to work as an Injury claims adjuster in insurance. Let me say this. MOST of the claims I had for injuries were from larger cars, even trucks! Problem is, they are so well built that they don't have any give, and you get more recoil, and you get more injured.

Now...a small car vs a big truck..that's a different story...but in regular day to day fender benders, side swipes, t bones, and head ons, you get more injuries in a bigger stiffer car.

Of course...the car companies don't tell you that.

May 11th, 2005, 11:52 AM
I live in a small town outside of Charlotte Nc an gas here is between 2.05-2.15 and its killing me! I wish we had public trans. but we are to small to have anything like that...i have a good friend who works in downtown Charlotte and she sold her car a month ago and says she couldnt be happier it saved her alot of money...

May 11th, 2005, 11:55 AM
If you are in a small town, consider getting vespa (scooter). They are about $6000 but the amount you save in gas is amazing. If we didn't have winter 8 months of the year here, I would get one.

May 11th, 2005, 12:00 PM
Yes, Raingirl. I'm looking at that side too (crash tests and stats). Just because it is big, doesn't mean it is safe. It doesn't mean it passes crash tests. Doesn't mean you won't crinkle up worse than a car. I read the new reports as they come out. If you're driving a CR-V, you're probably safer than someone driving an Aztec. All I can say is research a car before you buy. There are documentaries that play on PBS sometimes about Pontiac Sunfires. They are the most unsafe car in side impact crashes out there along with Cavaliers. (Neons are down there too but not as low). People in the documentary were dying and friends and family were saying, "If we knew it was so unsafe, we wouldn't have bought it or let them buy it." There are no beams in those cars. At all. If you took a huge pole (like 50cm thick) and rammed it into the door, it would go right through. Nothing supportive in there at all.

And I am not a fan of minivans either. But I have to say that what irks me most is when in traffic, you are ALONE in this mammoths. There was a thing on Dodge Caravans a few years ago where they showed the test for the gas tank in a rear end crash. The gas tank didn't explode so the van passed. If you look closer in the video, you see the crash test dummies strapped in their seats in the front get flipped into the trunk. The seats ripped out completely and flipped into the trunk with the people attached. But they didn't say anything, the van passed the gas tank test.

And yes, chico, that arse in the honda will die, and I won't blame you but when it's you swerving from lane to lane and you take someone out, then I surely will. People here drive SUV's like sports cars. All I'm saying is that an SUV going 80 in a 50 swearving from lane to lane is more likely going to kill everyone in a car than a civic doing the same. SUV's override car bumpers. You rear end a guy in a car, you break his tail lights. If you're going fast enough, you'll get into the back seat. Honda, Mercedes so far are the only car companies to lower the bumpers on their SUV's to make it safer for car drivers out there.

If I ever drive an SUV, I will be more careful of car drivers than the displays I see out there by SUV drivers. And if I ever drive a Sunfire, I'll get my a** out of intersections as fast as I possibly can.

May 11th, 2005, 12:20 PM
So it isn't that the SUV is unsafe, it's the driver. I have to be honest, I get annoyed at people who say "You know how many people get hurt in SUVs?" I usually answer, "You know how many people drive them like they're cars?" I've always been into "sporty" cars (and one sports car, an RX-7. Dumbest thing a student can buy. The repairs cost a mint, the gas nearly bankrupt me, the insurance was attrocious...god I miss that car!), and now I drive a truck. Prone to roll-overs? No, not if driven properly. I've seen people over-correct in thier car, and they're fine. They do the same in an SUV or truck, they roll. Is the vehicle unsafe? No, the driver can't drive. I'm into rally racing, and I help out at a rally up north, which requires me to drive at high-speed down the course at times. I've been doing over a hundred on the gravel road (closed course), no problem. And I've had to look out the doors to see which way I was going. That's why I get frustrated when I see an accident blamed on the vehicle. A lot of times, it's the driver. And if anyone asks me why I'd buy a truck or SUV, I tell them because if I'm paying a stupid amount for a vehicle, it's going to be for something I want. Unfortunately, the Civic isn't going to carry a kid, dog and all the accessories. I've also heard the arguement about one person in an SUV. Unfortunatly, some people DO need the room or power when they aren't driving to work. However, they can't afford to go buy a second dependable car.

The arguement about gas in Europe? Driving isn't nearly the necessity it is here. For us to move closer to work would require paying an addtional $300M easily for the same house, and I don't want to raise my child and dog in a condo. Public transit is horrible here, so I don't have a choice, where as Europe has some of the best public transit in the world.

Also, this hasn't been brought up yet, but I heard someone once say, "You complain about $0.80/lt for gas, but you don't mind paying $1.50/ lt for Coke." Guess what, if I went through 75 litres of Coke a week, I wouldn't be paying $1.50. (for restaurants, it works out to about $0.15 a litre)

May 11th, 2005, 12:36 PM
As stated before, just because it is bigger does not necessarily mean it is safer. A lot of SUVs and minivans do horribly in crash tests. (Yes I know that some cars do as well)

I drive 500 kms every week (highway driving) and I see some real dumb moves made by both small car drivers and SUVs. What really bugs me are some of the winter drivers. The roads are icy and snow covered and people are flying by at 100 Km/hr! Most of the ones that I see are SUV drivers who think that because they are driving an SUV they are invincible. Now I'm not saying that everyone who drives an SUV drives like that or are insane drivers. I also do see young kids drive that way with their customized civics. Not very smart of them either. These are the people who you eventually see in a ditch or wrapped around a tree or pole.

I do believe that everyone has the right to buy what they want and what they can afford.

I love the look of SUVs but, they don't suit my lifestyle or my pocket book. It would cost me a small fortune every week in gas! I can't justify buying one for just my husband and myself, no kids. My dog is happy in anything as long as she is with us and not on her way to the vets'! For other people though, a bigger vehicle is a better choice. My parents for instance own a minivan because they have a couple of dogs and they make frequent trips to the cottage with a loaded van (cargo and people). It would not be comfortable for people in an SUV with dogs sitting on their laps for 2 hours!

May 11th, 2005, 01:01 PM
Also, a point that might be lost on urban dwellers, I've yet to hit a deer, moose or elk on a dark morning (a lot of close calls), but I'm pretty confident I'll survive if I'm in a Durango whereas a lesser vehicle would have the animal scooped up and tossed through the windshield.

Here are some pictures of a poor deer that hit a Durango. The results would most likely be different if the Durango hit the deer.

Rick C
May 11th, 2005, 02:37 PM
Here are some pictures of a poor deer that hit a Durango. The results would most likely be different if the Durango hit the deer.

Its almost hilarious how often that picture gets dredged up when I extol the virtues of the Dodge Durango on an off-topic forum!!

As the caption notes, its in Minnesota and the deer actually fell off a bridge and through the windshield, hence the lack of damage to the front end. . . . of the vehicle.

Rick C

May 11th, 2005, 03:15 PM
I guess I didn't clarify what I meant about large cars. What I meant to say is that crash tests are almost totally insignificat in predicting injuries. THey predict what a car most likely will do in an accident, but not what the injuries will be.

The Kias are really bad because (as I'm sure you have seen their commercials) they get very little damage in an accident. People see that and think " little damage means we won't get hurt" WRONG! You are more likely to get hurt in a low speed accident with little damage, partially because you are more aware of your surroundings and what is happening. often in larger crashes with lots of damage, you faint, black out, pass out, your body stays more limp, and you actually get injured less.

May 11th, 2005, 04:07 PM
Well,Rick,I totally understand your point,living where you do,I would drive nothing else but an SUV.
Prin,when I go out and buy a car/SUV I foremost think of OUR safety,not the safety of others should we have an accident.It's admirable of you thinking of others safety first.
I also have a"thing"about any Japanese cars and prefer either North American or Swedish(Volvo,Saab)and the Swedish car obviously because I am Swedish/Canadian.
I might not live in rural Ontario,but when my husband drives to work at night in a snowstorm,I feel a heck of a lot better knowing he is driving the Jeep.
I am 61 hubby is 62 and we both have perfect driving-records(hope I don't jinx it!)but I agree,some SUV drivers in the winter believe they are invinsible,we happen not to belong to that group.
If you've never driven an SUV in a foot or more of snow,you do not know what you are talking about,there is just no comparison to a regular car,much less a small one.
Since we live in a democratic country,what we chose to drive and pay for,is our choice and ours alone and as for the environment,unfortunately in this country,as Schwinn pointed out,public transit is not always an option,it stinks!! When we lived in Sweden,we never owned a car,no need too,they always built public transit before they built housing,you could grab the sub-way to wherever you wanted to go,unfortunately that is not the case here in Ontario.
When hubby retires this summer,we will however trade our two cars for just one and it more than likely will be another SUV,probably a VolvoX90 only a V6 which will be considerably cheaper to drive than the Jeep,but I will miss the thunder of the engine of the Jeep :D

May 11th, 2005, 05:37 PM
i say ban suvs and 4x4s in the city areas, jsut too dangerous. i know plenty of city slickers that have 4x4 or similar that have enver ever been off road, its an ego thing. the damage a 4x4 can do in the city when it runs over a small stationary vechile is horrific and if you do not live in an area where you need it you should nto have it. not to mention the high amount of fuel consumption and particl polution that could be reduced in a normal sized car. there iso nce council in sydeny that has started charging ridiculously high rates for suv owners that do not have a reason for owning one ie business i think it is great and will eb effective.

i have a carolla hatchback, it is huge inside as that was the sales point, what you can fit in it. i have modifications such as a sway bar and sports engine but that is it. i work and live in the bush and have never had reason for a 4x4, my little car goes pretty much anywhere in the bush on any tracks, never been bogged or similar, im sure if i was crossing the desert it may be diff story, but its not planned at the mo so not an issue. if i lived or worked on farm it may be very different but that is the only time i would own one.

oh and mind you my carolla is more effecient than the new toyota prius hybrid, that gets 6.5ltrs to 100 km, my car gets 5ltrs to 100km dist, so im not worried about impact.

i am glad the price of gas is rising, it is high time we payed properly for this resource. petrol is one of the cheapest liquids on the planet, a litre of coke or milk costs more. yet the extraction of oils for fuel production is horrendously environmentally damaging and it takes aeons of time for that resource to recover (certianly not in my life time). not to mention the final product in cars is damaging to human health and the environment.

it is high time we paid a price for fuel that reflects the preciousness of this resource, it is not an infinate resource and we should be using it more sensibly. i personally would pay $2 for a litre, it would certainly get me using the car more effeciently and only when necessary. it may also encourage excersise and several other social problems we are now facing.

i currently pay $1.24 for 98 octane fuel, for effeciency and cleanliness of my engine and the environment. also it goes further, more grunt for the dollar, a full tank of great fuel in my car will last twice as long as a full tank of crap cheap fuel.

yeppers bring up that price, reflect the resources value, and above all reflect that we care about our environment and resources, havign a high price will result in more sustainable use, that is great for the environment, our health and certainly fairer for future generations who will also need our resources.

yay bring it on up, this will be alot of fun :D :p

May 11th, 2005, 06:24 PM
I had a 4x4 Toyota Camry before this car and it had a differential lock and was a very tough car. I've driven in more than a foot of snow in that car. I used to snowboard twice a week in Vermont every week, snow or sun... My Camry toughed through roads where cars were flipped over, SUV's too. I believe 4 wheel drive is next to essential in our climate, as well as a standard car (you can get out of nearly everything with a standard) but I don't believe that an SUV crucial to surviving in winter. Can't a Subaru Legacy be enough?

May 11th, 2005, 08:01 PM
Durango I would love one, Sunfires might be not be great in a crush but how many of them were sold. Many people don't reseach before buying the car they want I didn't, I just wanted a Sunfire cause I liked them. I knew nothing about the crush rating and honestly hope I never do.

May 11th, 2005, 08:53 PM
I have a Volkswagen, ,It's fuel efficient and compact, and has done great in crash tests! (My previous car was also a Volkswagen) I find them very reliable, and seem to run forever (you see them in the autotrader with over 500,000KM on them and still going !!
I start driving Volkswagen, after killing the engines of 3 North American cars!! (I drive the 401 highway everyday to work, and the North american cars just can't seem to handle the abuse, but my Volkswagen handles it just fine) Just think they have been driving like maniacs in germany (autobaun) with these vehicles for years!!

Schwinn- You would get along great with my hubby, he picked out "our" car (GTI 1.8T, nick named the pocket rocket :rolleyes: ) boys and their toys, does the need for speed ever end ?? :p

May 11th, 2005, 09:37 PM
Can't a Subaru Legacy be enough?

Sure, except thier mileage is terrible, and the cost of repairs is brutal. And they aren't much different in price than an SUV. Subaru's, which I love, (personally, I think the WRX STi wagon is the perfect family car) are expensive to buy, repair, and don't get great mileage.

And happycats, it seems the need for speed doesn't end. I know after the first year of bombing down the closed roads in my truck, and doing power-slides trying to get around the course in time, only made it worse!

May 12th, 2005, 06:20 AM
And happycats, it seems the need for speed doesn't end. I know after the first year of bombing down the closed roads in my truck, and doing power-slides trying to get around the course in time, only made it worse!
Your poor wife must be white knuckled, driving around with you :eek:
(Or does she always hit that imaginary brake pedal on the passenger side ;) )

May 12th, 2005, 07:02 AM
personally, I think the WRX STi wagon is the perfect family car
Amen to that!! :love:

Chico - you have a "thing" against Japanese cars? That's pretty funny, because I have a "thing" against American cars! :D Every one I've (or anyone in my family has) ever owned has been a complete lemon. But you're right. People have the right to buy whatever they can afford (and, in the case of some people I know, what they can't afford, but rather what the bank will let them hang themselves with ;) ). I would like to believe, though, that in this day and age, people would opt for the most fuel friendly option they can before we bleed Mother Earth completely dry. :sad:

Schwinn's right. It's not the SUV that's unsafe - it's the driver. The biggest problem I have with these "4X4 pinheads" is that a lot of them think 4X4 means immunity to ice. Sorry, folks. 4X4 means extra traction, so when you skid off the road, you might be better able to haul yourself out of that ditch you landed in (if you're lucky). 4 wheels will slide on ice just as well as 2. ;)

May 12th, 2005, 07:24 AM
W4F,I don't really know what my"thing"is,but I would never even consider an Asian car and I know they are good cars.My oldest son,keep saying buy a Camry,he believes they are the best...coming from someone who drives a red Mustang,that's strange :cool:
As for lemons,we've had a few,but our 1998 Jeep Cherokee under our loving care,still looks like new and I would buy another one in a heartbeat..
Yes,we think fuel-economy,our little 2000 Volvo,is the car we drive the most,but like today,we are going to buy a new lawn-mover(I broke the old one!)going to Costco to stock up and getting some new plants,we will drive the Jeep :D
Someone mentioned Subaru,I am sure they are excellent cars,but I think they look like an over-priced stationwagon :D
Anyways,we all have different likes and dislikes,when we were young and had three little kids,used cars was all we could ever afford,now it's our turn and we are fortunate enough to buy what we like and want,within some limits.

May 12th, 2005, 08:12 AM
our little 2000 Volvo,is the car we drive the most.

Chico, The Volvo is a GREAT car!! I would have got one too, instead of the Volkswagen, but price was the only thing stopping me!! Much research went into choosing our car, and Volvo came up WAY on top in almost every category, especially safety!!
(We are still at that stage in life where we still can't afford such a car ;) )

Don't worry Chico, my parents have 2 vehicles too, a car for every day use and an SUV, which we insisted they get!! As we felt my parents safety was very important to us! They retired and moved up north and live on a dirt road that becomes very treacherous in the winters, so in my opinion an SUV was a necessity. (Plus my Dad loves fishing and has a small boat he tows around with the SUV)

May 16th, 2005, 11:41 AM
Your poor wife must be white knuckled, driving around with you :eek:
(Or does she always hit that imaginary brake pedal on the passenger side ;) )

Actually, I'm usually pretty tame with her because I'm either in the truck which doesn't handle the greatest on pavement (and we don't go a lot of places together that isn't paved, I think just for the reason of my rally fetish), and I've been very careful how I drive her car when she's with me ever since I told her about the hair-pin corner out in the country that the Civic could handle at speed, and she replied with, "Did I ever tell you how tippy your truck is?". Sometimes she'll come home, and just to get me excited, tell me, "The back end really slides around a lot, eh?" Besides, I can't do more than 10-15 over or I get caught. Her, on the other hand, once told someone, "Oh, you can do up to 130km on the 400 before they pull you over". And this is while driving an arrest-me red Cougar!

May 16th, 2005, 04:35 PM
boyz and their toyz, hubby is currently in the long and expensive proces of building his own Locust, hmmmm its hard for a girl. esp when you ahve a shed full of s@#$ and metal everywhere.

i drive like a complete maniac when alone, i have a modified carolla, it has the sports engine and matching clutch, oh and a new Momo steering wheel, oh and there is one very big sub woofa in the back boot, ahhhh girlz and their toyz.

(i once had the car sideways on a dirt road,a few moves and the car was straight again hubby piped up 'how the hell did you learn to do that?' i replied 'why playstation of course' :D :p

(the v8 supercar drivers here actually do their courses on playstation before driving, there is playstation games of our major racing tracks and they are quite accurate, apparently it is quite effective- TRUE STORY :p ).

May 17th, 2005, 09:23 AM
When you were on the dirt road, did you press your 'X' button, or the triangle one to correct? ;)

May 17th, 2005, 04:31 PM
that was X and L2 my dear friend. oh and have only ever had the car sideways on 2 occassions so i am not saying i do that all the time, could not afford the tires for one thing. :D :p

May 17th, 2005, 11:39 PM
Subaru's, which I love, (personally, I think the WRX STi wagon is the perfect family car) are expensive to buy, repair, and don't get great mileage.
I actually think the Honda Civic Si is a perfect family car... lol Perfect for any reason really. Gotta have fun, right? Some decisions are not rational. :)

May 18th, 2005, 09:30 AM
I actually think the Honda Civic Si is a perfect family car... lol Perfect for any reason really. Gotta have fun, right? Some decisions are not rational. :)

That's what Cheryl drives. Unfortunately, other than the K&N Air Filter, she won't let me do anything else to it. I have to tell you, coming from a lady who thinks socks and sandles are okay (meh! She's from Thunder Bay), nothing's funnier than hearing her tell me, "Don't think you're pimping my ride, man!" I've almost got her convinced that jr needs the windows tinted so it's cooler. Next, that jr needs a header because the sound will sooth him! Unfortunatly, considering last Christmas the car was almost bursting with us, Daisy, and the presents, we need something more. And since Cheryl refuses to ride in the back seat of the RED RANGER, and the Civic's paid for, she's been talking to the Ford dealership her brother works for about trading the truck in for a mini-van *shudder*. It is a dark day indeed in Schwinnsville. :(

May 18th, 2005, 10:13 AM
[thread hijack]

(meh! She's from Thunder Bay),

Hey....I'm from TBay originally....and I KNOW that socks and sandals ARE NOT okay! (Unless you are in outdoor ed. - and the socks are big wool socks, and the sandals are TEVA's.)! ;)

[/thread hijack]

May 18th, 2005, 11:40 AM
I thought I'd add this... Melanie should like it... :)

May 18th, 2005, 12:14 PM
I used to drive tow truck for a living -- and I've seen many crashes involving many different vehicles and the end results. Yes, some vehicles hold up better than others in a "controlled crash scenario" but when you are in the real world, results are totally different! Everyone drives differently, speed varies, seatbelt factor and not to mention what you collide with and how!

I'm on my third Jeep Cherokee and I LOVE them! I was in an accident with my first one - a 1990. Someone ran a stop sign right in front of me and I couldn't stop fast enough. I was doing about 60-65 kms/h and had my foot off of the gas because I saw the car at the stop sign. They were stopped and next thing I knew BAM! The car I hit was a ford lincolin. When the vehicles came to rest, the ford was facing the opposite direction it was travelling in. I hit them right between the front and back door. No major injuries thank god!
The damage to my Jeep looked minimal, but it was enough to write it off because the frame was bent. It really didn't look bad at all! I don't know what happened to the other car.

As for the price of gas.........I spend way too much money per month. I travel about 500-600kms a week or more! I've seriously thought about driving an economical car, but I hate sitting low. You can never see traffic coming at some intersections in the country when the grass is long.

About the new Smartcar.........i sure would hate to be in a pile up on the 401 in that car!

May 18th, 2005, 01:43 PM
About the new Smartcar.........i sure would hate to be in a pile up on the 401 in that car!

I think the same thing on any road to tell you the truth.. I was beside a Smartcar at traffic lights last week and I would never put myself or dogs in one.

May 18th, 2005, 03:22 PM
Coppersmom,I agree...we are on our fourth Jeep Cherokee,this one is a gas-guzzler,a 5.9L engine V8 and is mostly a winter-car,it has all the "toys"anyone could want and drives beautifully,tons of cargo-space and lots of leg-room.
I also saw a Smart Car yesterday and there is NO way I would ever drive one on the high-way,could be ok for around town.....but they look like a joke!!

May 18th, 2005, 03:30 PM
Those smartcars are the ugliest things i have ever seen in my life!! Where the heck would you put your groceries??? There is no room whatsoever for anything!! They may be good for big city driving, but that's about it. I wouldn't be caught dead driving one of those! :eek: I think Mopeds are way cooler! LOL

May 18th, 2005, 03:40 PM
It's funny you should say that,that was exactly what I was thinking,but somehow I cannot picture myself on a moped :D

May 18th, 2005, 08:24 PM
The Smart car is directed more to people who sit in traffic 99% of the time. I'm one of them. You can't really die easily in any car when you're not moving. My school is 12 kms away and on a good day it takes me 45 minutes. (Still faster than the bus...) The Met is concrete made of cars. Even Saturday mornings at 10 AM it's gridlocked. I'd rather be in a battery car than putting away my gas in a parking lot...

May 19th, 2005, 10:01 AM
You can't really die easily in any car when you're not moving.

Unless it's of embarassment :D

Those Smart Cars are diesel that take about $13 to fill from empty, apparently. Also, the safety rating on them is apparently fairly high. I've seen one on the highway, but I couldn't imagine. People look like Shriners driving those things. On my way to and from Union station, though, I see tonnes of them around. Being a "car guy" as Cheryl calls me, I couldn't see that as my only means of transportation, unless I was in the middle of the city, and never left.

May 19th, 2005, 10:27 AM
I have seen those smart cars on the 401 :eek: Do they even go 120km??
you must really have to push it to get it to go that fast!! I don't think that would be very good on the engine. (high repair bills?)

May 19th, 2005, 10:35 AM
I believe the max speed was just over 100 km...with a tailwind...downhill.

May 19th, 2005, 11:32 AM
I don't think the Smart is supposed to be an only car. I think it's the week car for commuters and then they take out their behemoth Suburban for those weekend grocery trips.