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2 male pitbulls - need advice

rayyes
April 30th, 2005, 05:17 PM
hi guys,
My dog Tito is a 5 month pitbull. His buddy Gotti (pittie also) is just over 9 months old now. They get along well, it rarely gets serious between them.
Anyway Gotti's owner, a friend of mine, has decided to give him up (trust me i tried talking him into keeping the dog - no use. his girlfriend wants it out of the house asap).
I told him ill keep the dog for the time being until they find a decent home (i won't give it up until im sure the home they find is decent :thumbs up ). I would keep him but one dog is enough for me...and from what i've heard a male pitbull should be the only animal in a house - let alone two males :eek:

I've noticed that Gotti is higher in rank than my tito in their little hierarchy thing - no wonder since he's much older.

I've heard that as a rule, one should pay attention to the needs of the most dominant dog first and then to the other dogs ie, feed him first, water first etc...

But i also heard that when a new dog comes into the house, one must pay attention not to ignore the old one to not 'hurt its feelings' or make feel like it needs to compete for attention.

What i need advice for is how should i handle having the new, more dominant dog in the house. I don't want my dog to feel inferior, but at the same time i dont want my friends dog to be over agressive. Any tips would be appreciated, thanks.

Here's Tito, my pup:

rayyes
April 30th, 2005, 05:18 PM
and Gotti:

rayyes
April 30th, 2005, 05:20 PM
and Tito again (please ignore the washroom in the back) :D :

Shamrock
April 30th, 2005, 05:23 PM
Dont have advice, but just wanted to say what great looking dogs! :thumbs up Are they neutered? Both very lovely!
Good luck with this.. I'm sure others will be along to offer you some sound suggestions.

chico2
April 30th, 2005, 05:27 PM
I have no advice to offer,I am sure someone else does shortly....jut wanted to comment on the pitties,they are really handsome,those tounges are looong :D
If I were your friend,I would definetly dump any girlfriend who demands I get rid of my dog :evil:

rayyes
April 30th, 2005, 05:29 PM
unfortunately no - and no. Gotti's balls are as big as tomatoes lol. Neutering him is beyond my control for now. My dog will get neutered eventually but not before another month or two at least.

They asked me to say *woof* to you(that means thanks for the compliment :D )

rayyes
April 30th, 2005, 05:31 PM
chico his gf wouldn't be too pleased with this advice as he is living with her right now .

Cactus Flower
April 30th, 2005, 05:41 PM
I would just make it clear that YOU are at the top of the hierarchy, leader of that particular pack. Don't let one dog dominate the other. Eat first, then feed them both when you are done.

You seem wise to the ways of pit bulls, knowing that having two (same sex, no less) in the same household is not usually a good idea. And obviously were concerned enough about your friend's dog possibly ending up in a shelter that you took him him. Very sensible, and compassionate as well-so it surprises me that you have not had your own neutered yet. I'd wager a confident guess that you don't want to contribute to the overpopulation of unwanted pups in this world.

Could anyone recommend a low cost spay/neuter program or vet in rayyes area? (I hope your location is posted- I can't see it right now from the "reply" screen).

The pics are very cute!

rayyes
April 30th, 2005, 05:55 PM
Cactus flower i know of several animal hospitals near by that would do it. As i said it will eventually be done but not right now. I know its best for my dog but part of me doesnt want to. I guess it's another case of the owner mistaking his manhood with that of the dog's... like if neutering him will make him less of a man. Stupid i know, but i'll get him neutered once i get over it.

anyway back to the topic, I am aware that i am the 'leader' but as far as the dogs are concerned...who should get priority? or does it not matter that much?

heeler's rock!
April 30th, 2005, 06:16 PM
Is Gotti neutered? Two intact males can become quite nasty...... :o

As for your dilema, in our household, we don't give priority over the dogs, except our oldest as she's a good 7 years older and has earned the right to be "top dog". In my opinion, 4 months age difference isn't enough to really give one dog more of anything over the other. I wouldn't condone any hierarchy between them at all. Let them know that neither is better than the other, and only encourage play, not dominance. If one dog does something to the other that warrents disciplining by the dog that was wronged, let them handle it, and only interfere if it gets over the top. Most dogs will stop after a discipline if that's all they're trying to do. If it wants to hurt the other dog, it won't stop.

Anyways, I hope this helps, and I've never owned pits before so the advice from other pit owners may be better than mine. The dogs are gorgeous by the way, and I hope you find a good home for Gotti! It's a great thing you did taking him in. :o

.unknown.
April 30th, 2005, 07:58 PM
my suggestion would be to, while maintaining your own hierarchy, repsect what they have established. I've found with my dogs, that if i won't respect what they've set out they don't get mad at me, the more dominant one takes it out on the submissive... If i pet the submisssive first the dominant one usually puts her in her place.

I've also read that unless it's really bad you shouldn't interfere with them trying to figure out their rank either, because they will just continue to fight. And that while they are figuring this out, you are supposed to basically ignore them for the most part until they do...the site also said to feed them in seperate rooms if it's a problem..

I don't know how sound the above is, but i have noticed in my dogs, that if i treat them the same the dominant one puts the submissive in it's place alot more than if i don't...It makes me sad to have to do it, but the big one always gets treats, attention and food first... the little one gets hers all second and everything is harmonious. The smaller dog doesnt seem to mind all that much because she doesn't get sat on as often. hehe

But i've also got an older spayed female and a spayed puppy (female also) So my situation might be different...

So, i dunno! try it both ways, tell them their rank, or let them decide..?

LavenderRott
May 1st, 2005, 12:58 AM
While I try very hard not to stereotype dogs by breed, as every dog is different, I would avoid a situation where you have two dogs of the same sex, roughly the same age, non-neutered, and of a breed that - by the standard - is not especially tolerant of other dogs. While they may get along fine for a while, when they do decide that it is time to decide who is boss you can bet it will be a serious discussion.

I know there are a couple of good rescue groups for pitties in the Toronto area. You might try to contact them and see if they can take your friend's dog.

My husband once told me to get rid of my dog. I offered to help him pack his things.

Spurby
May 1st, 2005, 01:13 AM
Neutering will help, and has to be done anyway due to the new restrictions soon to be in place, so why not do it now to help decrease the chances of fighting.

And no pit bull rescue will take this owner surrender dog in. We are overwelmed already with all the pit bulls in the shelters..and can't even come close to saving them all..just a few. The chances of this dog making it out of the shelter if he ended up there are dismal :sad: Now, a rescue can help with placing this dog in a responsible home, as long as he is neutered and UTD with his shots and someone keeps him until a home is found.

Lucky Rescue
May 1st, 2005, 12:29 PM
If you want two male pit bulls, make sure you are ready, willing and able to possibly have to separate them for life when they are both fully mature.

rayyes
May 1st, 2005, 02:19 PM
the thing is, Tito will always be my favorite because well, he's my dog. I can't even think of putting Gotti in a shelter though...It would be a crime to lock him up in a cage. What an amazing dog he is. He is so full of energy and extremely smart. He needs an owner that appreciates him.

But I realize it will be a mission to keep both of them for good. I hope something good turns out. I'll post back if/when anything new happens.

Cactus Flower
May 1st, 2005, 03:27 PM
I know its best for my dog but part of me doesnt want to. I guess it's another case of the owner mistaking his manhood with that of the dog's... like if neutering him will make him less of a man.

Oh, I'm sorry. I did not know that this is about manhood. In that case, why not get both dogs laid, drunk, and then just kick back and watch them fight?

:rolleyes:

So you are looking for a new owner who will adopt Gotti, and who will get him neutered before the new restrictions are in place?

Does anyone know what will happen if the dogs aren't neutered before then? What is the penalty?

I hope these two dogs don't hurt each other before then :sad: .

babyrocky1
May 1st, 2005, 06:02 PM
Im most certainly no expert on dogs at all and I did the very worst thing by buying my dog, six years ago, out of the neswpaper, it was an unplanned thing, and a very long story, I had one requirement for the pup, that was that he wasn't a pit bull cause my neighbours didn't want pit bulls. She said no problem, hes an American Staffordshire Terrier!!!! My pup is one of the best things that has ever happened to me but once I realised that although he may not technically be a pittie he would be seen as one I began to read everything I could, put his 10 week old but into puppy school and called the consultant at the humane society. ALL of the advice that I got and from EVERYTHING I read told me to GET HIM NUETERED! Rocky was nuetered between six and seven months. He is six years old now and still very puppy like and even with this he reacts badly to other dogs that are not altered. He percieves them as a threat and I am told that this is quite normal. I totally applaud your decision to help your friend out with his dog because it will be very difficult to find him a good home with all thats going on right now. It seems that in this situation you are overlooking the most obvious thing in managing potential aggression problems. You have to have them altered! It seems that the least your friend could do is pay for his boys operation! I hope it all works out and I too think its a very compassionate thing to do for Gotti :thumbs up

babyrocky1
May 1st, 2005, 06:10 PM
Me Again, I was just loooking at the pictures of your dogs . VERY handsome, I was also reminded of Rocky at that age and I would never have imagined that he would have an issue with any dog! He was extremely well socialised and loved ALL dogs as a puppy, but once he hit a bit over a year, he became possesive over his toys and just a lot more discriminating, He has never been in a dog fight, but he doesn't like a lot of larger breed males. My point is just that at this age you might get a free ride but as they get older problems might arise.

melanie
May 1st, 2005, 06:43 PM
:love: ooohhhhh those dogs are spunky, give them a kiss for me :love:

i ahve a very dominating female German Shep mix. i know its diff to the drive of a PB (i thinnk anyway) but i find if i let her be the dominant dog when we have visitors or are visiting ie feed her first etc. i find it makes the problem 100 times worse, it encourages her domination which i dont like, im top dog around here and i wont tolerate lack of manners.

now as far as letting them sort it out- i would never advise that, stop it when it starts or it may not be able to be broken up when things get going.

eg. we visited a lovely PB crossed with a staffie last week, Jazz is a female and desexed, 6yo. my dog female desexed 9yo (i agree no same sex together if both either in tact or desexed).

well charlie my girl always dominated Jazz, was always a bit of a bully (jazz is a bit dumb though). well they had not seen each other in 3yrs, in that time jazz has matured and has killed another animal (cat so was not too worried about my dog).

they instantly recognised each other and had a friendly cuddle and play but i work real hard to avoid any agressive situations (no balls) and generally keep them out of each other hair. 2 days later well charlie tried to turn on her dominating charms and all hell broke loose. it was on, staffie cross and GSd cross going full on in the yard. (they seriously did not speak after this, or look at each other, well they couldnt as i had sent them to corners for poor behaviour).

well i managed to break it up (when i got them apart you could see it was the last chance to do so, they were pumped- and i spilt my bloody beer, i was not6 impressed at all and thirsty). if i had let it go to see if they could sort it out well jazz certainly would have won and it would have gone to the death, i know jazz, charlie will back out of a fight if i tell her too, but jazz was jsut too full on and charlie would have non of it.

and i would imagine with two of the same breed both undesexed it will be worse. i have noticed with other breeds such as labs and such, the fight is not so vicious (mostly) and not so intense. with muscle breeds i find from observation and experiences such as those above the fight is on a different scale all together (not the dogs fault, just the wasy they are). staffies and the PBs jsut seem to keep going.

please be so very careful with those beauties, keep them out of each other hair and watch them, look at body language al lteh time, and avoid all aggressive situations. its hard work doing that, but its really worth it, a bit of hassle is easier to cope with than death or a huge vet bill.

sorry for the length i thought this may help sort out your thoughts :D

rayyes
May 18th, 2005, 09:47 AM
hi everyone....

it's been about 3 weeks since i took Gotti in, and i though i'd give an update for those interested.

the first couple of days were horrible. Gotti was so dominant and my pup was not used to having another dog bullying him around the house. This dog just came in, took over his toys, his food, his water, etc. My dog became depressed i could see it in his eyes. His personality just did a 180 he was not the same dog! He was very fearful he would sit in the corner all the time, i had to drag him to eat and drink. he refused to play at all. He wouldn't respond to the commands he knew by heart...In comparison, Gotti stole the limelight. He got all the attention and he would growl at Tito or even attack him if he even though about drinking before him or playing with one of his toys.

I came back from school one day to find my dog with a big scar over his eye. Gotti had seriously attacked him and had not only crossed his limits, he crapped all over them. Upon further checking my dog,i found teeth marks and more scars on his body.

I had to step in for my dog's sake. I started laying Gotti down and hitting him on the butt and comforting my dog and letting him smell Gotti....and even step on him; basically showing him that its me he should pay attetion to and not the other dog. I would scorn Gotti if he even looked at my dog funny.

After a week of standing up for my dog, I started seeing the light at the end of the tunnel...

Little by little, he began responding. I saw improvements in the form of playing tug of war with Gotti and even growling at him a bit. He started drinking from the same bowl without even waiting for Gotti to finish (although there are two bowls). Now he's confident enough that he sometimes takes the rope/bone from under gotti's mouth and makes him run after it for a good 15 min!

He even started getting interested in the kong toy now that he sees Gotti playing with it.

For what its worth, i can say that taking in this dog has helped my dog in more than one way. For one, it helped him grow some balls and stand up for himself a bit...he's also a lot more active now...the two keep themselves busy most of the day so i don't feel as guilty leaving them home alone. That's not to say its all fun n games, as it (sometimes) gets intense and some form of intervention is required.

Also I'm making Gotti's owner (and i use the term owner loosely here because right now Gotti's more responsive to me than he is to him) pay for both their food and toys and bones (which seems fair to me).

Finally, and this is the most important point....I will be leaving canada towards the end of summer and I have been looking for someone to care for my dog during my absence. This has been bugging me for the past month or two as I kept fearing the worse...
Then out of nowhere, Gotti's ex-owner tells me he'll be moving back with his parents around the same time Im leaving and that he can take both dogs in while im away! Just like that!
He actually mentioned it to his folks in front of me and they responded positively. What a load off my chest!

You get what you give I guess....

LittleLoves
May 18th, 2005, 10:27 AM
I'm glad Gotti didn't land at a shelter, but do you mean to say that you leave them alone together, even after they had a serious fight? :confused: Any plans to neuter yet?

Blaze01
May 18th, 2005, 10:28 AM
I have a friend who has two male pit bulls. The first one whose name is Tuna is about a year and a half old and the other one is about six to eight months old. They get along great but the younger pit Rocco is the domit. dog
Tuna was there before Rocco ever came in the picture but for some reason Tuna just let him be the leader. They have gotten into some pretty nasty fights so my friend keeps them seperated when she is not home and they are both crate trained. Usually they are fine together but if Tuna taks something from Rocco he goes nuts.

Trinitie
May 18th, 2005, 10:30 AM
I had to re-read your post, especially when I saw you say you were hitting the dog's butt. Let me tell you, my bloodpressure has gone up just a "bit". :mad:

You are teaching your dog that it must stand up to the older, more dominant dog. While it's true, it's your dog's home, you're interferring with the natural order the dogs have worked out for themselves. Two unfixed PB males are an accident just waiting to happen, as you can attest to by the scars your dog now sports. The older dog has already attacked your dog, and will continue to do so. It may not happen now, but surely when your dog goes to live with the other dog's family, your training will be the deciding factor. Since your dog is learning that it can, and should, stand up to the older dog, it will continue to do so, even in the dog's own home. Be prepared for the inevitable. I do feel sorry for your dog. It's going to be a long, HARD, road he's going to be travelling. Neuter your dog. Doing so now, at 5 months, is not going to harm the dog. Provided both testies have dropped, it can be done safely.

I pitty both dogs right now.

Copper'sMom
May 18th, 2005, 10:41 AM
Oh dear! Pitbulls should NEVER be left unattended, alone together or with other animals without supervision! These dogs were once bred to be dog aggressive. It is in their genes and you can't control that! You can raise a Pit with any other animal and they may get along fine, but there is always that small chance.

Let me say, you are extremely lucky to have come home to an injured dog and not a dead dog!

Lucky Rescue
May 18th, 2005, 11:09 AM
What you are doing here is going to result in a dead dog, and I can nearly guarantee that. Do you understand that any fight between these dogs is not going to be a scuffle, but a fight to the death when your poor puppy matures (and if he lives that long)?

Expecting a puppy to "grow some balls" (what's this fixation on "balls" anyway???) and stand up to an adult dog is not only ridiculous, but cruel, and shows a dangerous lack of understanding not only of this breed, but of any dog.

You hitting a dog for being the breed he is, is also cruel. You want two male pit bulls, it's up TO you to protect both of them and keep them safe and you are not doing your job.

I've heard this scenario too many times. Two pit bulls left alone, the "MY dog would never do that" attitude, one dog kills the other, and the owner kills the remaining dog. Very sad.

chico2
May 18th, 2005, 11:12 AM
Wow,I do not know much about dogs,but I've learned and common sense tells me,never to leave two dogs,who have a dominance issue,are not neutered,already have been fighting serious enough to leave scars,alone together,an absolute disaster will happen,sooner or later..
The ex-owner could not handle Gotti,what makes you think he can handle two???
I am not bashing you,just very concerned about the two dogs,especially since you'll be going away...

LavenderRott
May 18th, 2005, 11:40 AM
So, having gone back and reread the entire thread, let me see if I have this straight. You have two male intact dogs of roughly the same age living in your home. You do not seperate them when you are not home. The older dog attacked your younger dog while you were gone. You beat the older dog. You plan on keeping them both. You are still not seperating them when you are gone.

I was reading on a pit bull forum that I belong to about a pair of male dogs that had lived together quite happily for years. It seems that yesterday, the owner left for a few minutes and came home to a bloodbath. The younger dog may live, but it is still pretty touch and go.

I am sure that you won't have that problem. After all, you did beat the aggressor.

You get what you give I guess....

SnowDancer
May 18th, 2005, 11:40 AM
I agree with Trinite and Lucky and all others who are seriously worried about your dog. I hope that Gotti's ex-owner will be his owner-again as soon as he moves in with his parents. I would definitely try to make other arrangements for my dog. How long your absence will be will certainly be a factor - I am assuming just for a couple of weeks - if longer that is a problem. I don't know why, but I thought you lived at home with your parents, but I may have you confused with someone else. I can pretty much guarantee as well that Gotti is going to kill your dog if you leave them alone. Never, ever leave them unattended together - and even when is the same room with them be prepared to put yourself between them and no doubt suffer the consequences, unless Gotti decides to pull back.

Re the slapping of Gotti's back - just don't do it - ever. I once saw someone do this to a mini Dachshund's back - I doubt they did it again.

rayyes
May 18th, 2005, 12:20 PM
Woah! did i just open a can of worms?

Let me clear up a few things:

* I will be away for less than 6 weeks.

* Yes i do leave them alone at times because, as hard as it is to believe, i have things to take care of outside of the dogs, and seeing as how i don't drive, i can't have them with me all the time. I will experiment with keeping them in separate rooms but i think it will only make them whine because they will want to play with each other.

* The situation is very similar to the one of Blaze01's friend; they get along most of the time - sometimes it gets a bit nasty. Actually Gotti's not nearly as aggressive as he used to be when he first came here. Partly because of me training him to wait for me to give him the OK before doing things, and partly because tito's standing up for himself.

* I ***DO NOT*** plan on keeping both dogs indefinitely. I might have not made it perfectly clear, but Gotti will remain with his owner once he moves back with his parents. For some reason you guys think I want to keep both dogs together, for good, and un-neutered. This is not the case. My dog will be neutered before i leave, i don't know about Gotti.

* You guys make a case out of me hitting Gotti on the butt... I don't see your point. Was I supposed to just watch Gotti intimidate my dog? This was not about my dog vs your dog. It was about one dog making another one feel very uncomfortable. I dont see how i should have handled it otherwise. Also,

* LR the puppy is not standing up to an adult dog. They're both puppies. In fact one of the earlier posts in this thread mentioned something about 4 months between them not being that big of a deal.

* Yes as a matter of fact there is a fixation on balls. I don't know about you guys, but personally i find that a ballsy dog is more fun and interesting. Think about it...would you rather have a dog that just sits there, or one that interacts with you? Socially (especially among people who don't own & understand dogs), a dog that is a coward is seen as a joke and is ridiculed whereas a dog that has balls is not only accepted, but loved and respected. Im saying this from experience. Im NOT saying that this is my opinion or this is how it should be....but this IS how it is. Human nature i guess.

* as for making other arrangments, i already mentioned how i could not find a place, to me this was a godsend. actually my ex-gf has a gf that owns a female pitbull and might help, but i haven't talked to her for quite a while and that's a whole different story... one post mentions that the ex-owner couldn't handle his dog. what makes you think that? i took the dog in because he couldn't keep it in his gf's home, not because he couldn't handle it.

* I appreciate your sympathy, but please keep your pity for yourself. You guys don't know anything about me or the dogs other than what I have posted here. And from the looks of it, I haven't done a very good job explaining the details. example, you don't know how much happier and more active my dog is now that he has a buddy at home. you don't see the increase in focus and confidence he shows.

I don't mean to be arrogant, but i felt a bit offended by some of the responses.

SarahLynn123
May 18th, 2005, 12:25 PM
Woah! did i just open a can of worms?

* Yes i do leave them alone at times because, as hard as it is to believe, i have things to take care of outside of the dogs, and seeing as how i don't drive, i can't have them with me all the time. I will experiment with keeping them in separate rooms but i think it will only make them whine because they will want to play with each other.




If they whine because they want to play, tough for them! Your the boss and you say when they can play. Also you are not there to hear them anyway so who cares if they whine its better then one or both getting seriously hurt!

Copper'sMom
May 18th, 2005, 12:32 PM
* Yes i do leave them alone at times because, as hard as it is to believe, i have things to take care of outside of the dogs, and seeing as how i don't drive, i can't have them with me all the time. I will experiment with keeping them in separate rooms but i think it will only make them whine because they will want to play with each other.

* The situation is very similar to the one of Blaze01's friend; they get along most of the time - sometimes it gets a bit nasty. Actually Gotti's not nearly as aggressive as he used to be when he first came here. Partly because of me training him to wait for me to give him the OK before doing things, and partly because tito's standing up for himself.

Yes, most people have to leave their dogs alone occasionally for a few hours at a time, BUT when you have two Pit Bulls, they should NEVER be left alone together unattended!! This is the number one rule of owning a Pit Bull!!! Check out sites specifically for Pit Bulls and rules of ownership. You cannot control a dog's GENES. If they have the GENE to be dog aggressive, you can NEVER change that!! People who own more than one Pit or own other pets always have their Pit crated or in a kennel while away from the house to PREVENT ACCIDENTS. It is up to you to be a RESPONSIBLE Pit Bull owner.

Like LavenderRott said, two Pits can grow up to be best buddies and never have a problem for years, but all it takes is one unsupervised incident to change it all!

Copper'sMom
May 18th, 2005, 12:34 PM
Look, I'm not trying to be rude to you! But how will you be able to live with yourself if your dog was killed due to your negligence??

Copper'sMom
May 18th, 2005, 12:43 PM
Oh one more thing, When two Pits that live in the same household have fought once.................you can bet your a** that they will go at it again!

Regardless of the fact whether you keep both dogs indefinitely, the incidents that have occured will affect both dogs for the rest of their lives! Afterall, they are still pups and they are still learning.

Lucky Rescue
May 18th, 2005, 02:11 PM
Yes as a matter of fact there is a fixation on balls. I don't know about you guys, but personally i find that a ballsy dog is more fun and interesting. Think about it...would you rather have a dog that just sits there, or one that interacts with you? Socially (especially among people who don't own & understand dogs), a dog that is a coward is seen as a joke and is ridiculed whereas a dog that has balls is not only accepted, but loved and respected. Im saying this from experience. Im NOT saying that this is my opinion or this is how it should be....but this IS how it is. Human nature i guess.

Wow.dog that has balls is not only accepted, but loved and respected.
By whom?? By you? Those people are precisely the ones who should NEVER own this breed, since it seems their own masculinity is tied up in the size of an animal's testicles and that is VERY scary.

Anyone who DOES "own and understand dogs" dogs knows that testicles produce testosterone, which is ONLY for fighting, mating and reproduction. They have nothing to with personality, drive or how active a dog is, unless you consider fighting and mating to be beneficial? From what you are saying I'm getting the impression that you condone dogfighting?

Responsible pit bull owners want to avoid their dogs getting into ANY fights EVER.

On the subject of ballless dogs who do nothing, please check out Grant. Competes (and has won many ribbons) in agility, obedience, French Ring, Schutzhund... Grant is indeed "balless" and he NEVER "just sits there".
Grant (http://odnarb.com/grant.html)

What is pro-testicle argument now?

Luvmypit
May 18th, 2005, 03:11 PM
What did I stumble into here...

Well first and foremost Im not going to judge but give you my opinion as a fellow pit owner.

For one my dog capone is neutured and he has the biggest personality you will ever see, he is smart, active, loves to play and I can barely get him to do NOTHING. If this is truly a concern for you read up on it you will find it does absolutly nothing to them but maybe eliminate some bad behaviours that you don't need in any dog. For one it most definately an agression reducer, reduces dominance and alot of great health benefits also.

I applaud you for taking in Gotti (capone and him should hang both being gangsters and all) . You have the right intentions maybe just the wrong direction.

As pit owner living where we live (ontario) we have to raise dogs that we can proudly walk down the street and can be ambassadors for their breed. We take a lot of slack and walking around with an intact male is just asking for it. Listen my BF was the same way ahh I dont want to chop his balls off... well you know what are the balls for you or for him? If its truly for the interest of the dogs then you will get him neutured. I pulled some reaserch for him (I would have done it anyways just wanted to make him feel more comfortable) and I encourage you to read up on it. You seem like a smart guy.
I think your a great person for doing for the dogs and I can see you truly have the right intentions but the people here gave you great advice that you asked for.
We love pits and we all want to see them succeed and not add to the countless and often contrued media frenzy that surrounds us...
Your dog will lose nothing with getting altered if anything you will gain more as he won't be so concerned with dominance, aggression and reproduction...He will be easier to train and less distracted....

And even though they seem like the best of friends the next time they fight won't be as pretty. Im sure that Gotti was nice enough to give your dog a warning but next time wont be so pretty.
Seperate them when your gone, no matter how upset they get. They have alllll day to play once you get home and that way you can ensure that you will not have a dead dog. What happens if you ignore our advice and keep leaving them together and one dies?? How will you feel???
Why not take the precautions??

i encourage you to stay on this site as it has taught me alot and then you can with confidence handle both dogs till need be.

As for the dominance issue my dog so far hasn't developed any agression towards other dogs.... And I say so far,.... You seem to know the tendancies of these dogs... don't ignore them thats all we are saying!

Lucky Rescue
May 18th, 2005, 03:32 PM
Just have to say....
http://www.smiliegenerator.de/s27/smilies-13039.png

Blaze01
May 18th, 2005, 04:01 PM
My friend who has the pits is a licensed vet tech and although she leaves them home alone from time to time the younger one is ALWAYS in a crate...i should of made that clear. :sorry:

I think this person had the best of intentions...just not all the facts.

MIA
May 18th, 2005, 04:03 PM
Please go to www.workingpitbull.com and do some reading ASAP.. You have two young pits that are coming of age and this is about the time when dog aggression will possibly show up (it can up to 2 years of age and even there after). I used to have a pit and am a huge pit advocate, but you have to be VERY careful with the two you have in the house together. My neighbor had two pits and always kept them seperated when not at home, these dogs grew up together, loved each other and one day while at a BBQ one killed the other. This is a reality with the breed period. They are unneutered so your risk is somewhat greater, you now have two teenagers with raging hormones! I also recommend you get a break stick and learn how to use it, in case something happens while you are home and still have the two dogs.

GWPsRock
May 18th, 2005, 04:13 PM
I am in no way sticking up for the OP....I just wanted to clarify that when the OP mentioned that a dog "needs balls"....I read it to mean that it needs "attitude"....not the physical testicals....if you read further, the OP does say that they are getting their dog neutered....

rayyes
May 18th, 2005, 04:27 PM
LR my dog will be neutered before i leave, ie before the end of july. I wasnt being literal about the dog having balls. I meant that he was being fearful and I'd rather have a dog that is not a coward, so I stood up for him.

MIA thank you for the link. I will check out that site later tonight.

Copper'sMom
May 18th, 2005, 04:35 PM
rayyes, please please take our advice about not leaving the dogs alone together unsupervised! I don't mean to sound harsh!! I used to leave Copper alone with my mom's little dog all of the time, but after researching the breed, I wouldn't take the chance now. I'd feel horrible IF something were to happen! Doesn't mean it will, but ya just never know!

I've got two pits now, and this is my worst fear. With precautions, i can reduce the chances of anything happening IF it were to happen at all! I don't let my emotions get in the way, I just do what I have to do to keep both from harms way!

GsdDiamond
May 18th, 2005, 04:37 PM
GWPsRock:
Yeah, but a 5 month old dog, starting to show aggression, and standing up for itself, can be neutered without difficulty.

Luvmypit
May 18th, 2005, 04:42 PM
well whether he wants to or not it will be law come August 29th (have the day circled on calender) and I think the problem more is the reasons why this guy was holding on to not doing it..... He said he would and I know he is smart enough.... right? Right?

Thanks LR.... I think hes got the right idea but just needs a push in the right direction.

And another thing... For people who consider there dog, car, or whatever as an extension of there manhood well when I walk down the street and see people who clearly own these dogs for show purposes....I don't turn around and go damn that guy must be tough or he must be able to handle his own... i personally see right through it.... I dont think your tough I think your a coward...... If you need some other object to prove your manhood then you have some self esteem issues... If you have a pit because their cool... then your obviously not....


Rayyes not directed at you cause I don't know you just generalizing.....I know what you meant now.. But Im talkingabout the lovely guys who live in my neighbourhood

levimh
May 18th, 2005, 04:47 PM
Just wanted to add....

You say you want them to be able to play when no one's home or they'll whine, etc. But even if they were two Golden Retreiver puppies at home alone, it's still not a good idea to leave them uncrated because they could easily knock something over - like a lamp (and start a fire), or break something glass (and step on it) or fall down the stairs or run into something, etc. and with no one home that can be dangerous.

Luvmypit
May 18th, 2005, 04:51 PM
Now does this look a dog that doesn't enjoy life??

Copper'sMom
May 18th, 2005, 04:52 PM
I LOVE Capone!!!! :love: :angel:

rayyes
May 18th, 2005, 04:53 PM
ok i will start placing them in two separate rooms with water and a toy before i leave. In fact i will do that now before i go to school.

rayyes
May 18th, 2005, 04:56 PM
Capone looks so happy lol :thumbs up

levimh
May 18th, 2005, 04:57 PM
Good idea. If you give them each something to chew on or a toy and leave them in seperate rooms, i'm sure they won't mind one bit! :)

Luvmypit
May 18th, 2005, 04:57 PM
We appreciate you listening to us...

We care about pits and want the best for your doggys.. and I can see you do too!
You rock Rayyes

GsdDiamond
May 18th, 2005, 04:59 PM
Way to go Rayyes!

chico2
May 18th, 2005, 05:10 PM
Rayyes,I am happy to hear that...everyone here(except me,since I have cats) love their Pits and know what they are talking about,in this day and age we do not need another killer-Pit story in the papers :thumbs up

Copper'sMom
May 19th, 2005, 10:32 AM
I hope you are true to your word!! I would recomend crates though, because it would take nothing for them to chew through a door! :thumbs up

happycats
May 19th, 2005, 11:07 AM
YAAAY Rayyes!! :D
You could have became defensive, and left this forum, But you showed that you "have balls"(pardon the pun :D ). and took the comments, and used them to learn instead of condem!!
I can tell you truly love your dog, and want whats best for him!
Just wanted to say thanks for putting your dog first, and your own feelings aside!