Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

breeding help

joemoe
April 21st, 2005, 05:53 AM
I am in need of some help with breeding my two chocolate Labs. My female is in the 8th day and has stopped bleeding but I think my male is too tall for her and now seems non-interested. Any advice? They are both AKC although she is an English breed and a little shorter.
Thanks :usa:

Eleni
April 21st, 2005, 06:06 AM
my advice is learn more about breeding, and then do it responsibly, or dont breed and leave it to professionals.

there are way too many abandoned pups to breed without knowing what you are doing.

for the love of the dogs please be 10000000000% sure you know what your doing.


Eleni

happycats
April 21st, 2005, 06:19 AM
Please go to, www.petfinders.com. and type in "lab" and see how many unwanted ones are there. (this does not include ones in pounds or other shelters, that are put to sleep instead of adopted).
Do you really want to add to this by breeding ?
Do you really want your "future puppies" to end up this way? Or even worse dead ?
If your truly care about your dogs, please reconsider breeding them!

joemoe
April 21st, 2005, 06:26 AM
Thank You for the reply but not the answer I am looking for. Where I live the demand for Labs, especially chocolate, is very high. There are a ton of waterfowl hunters in this area and finding good homes for yhe pups will be no problem at all, in fact, I have a small waiting list. Nothing I have read really covered my male being too tall so I thought I would ask.
Still in need of an answer,
Thanks

Eleni
April 21st, 2005, 06:30 AM
breeding the dogs just because there is a high demand is wrong.
do you ahve a screening process for the people adopting potential pups, and adoption contract?

if you were breeding responsibly both dogs would ahve seen the vet and he would ahve been able to answer this question for you.

I dont know the answer, in fact im glad I dont since i adamantly dislike backyard breeding wich is exactly what you are doing.


Eleni

BMDLuver
April 21st, 2005, 06:33 AM
Rather doubt that anyone is going to answer exactly how to get this particuliar feat accomplished. This board is full of rescuers and animal lovers so helping someone add more dogs to the already overpopulated world is just not going to happen. Maybe it's divine intervention? :rolleyes:

joemoe
April 21st, 2005, 07:11 AM
Well I am not going to get into it with anyone bu I am no backyard breeder. I have bred Malamute dogs and they were specificly bred for a dog sled outfit in Mammoth Lakes, California for skier rescue and sled pulling. Both my dogs were of equal size and I never ran into this problem before. Thanks for the vet insight I was there yesterday and it was a question that I had not thought of until now so I thought I would be able to get a helpful answer after looking at this sight. If not I will take the advice given the last thing I need is an arguement over the overpopulation of animals in Canada and before you say it in the United States as well. Thanks anyway

Lucky Rescue
April 21st, 2005, 07:45 AM
What titles do your dogs have in the field? Field Labs are often quite different looking than AKC show Labs, so I'm wondering why avid bird hunters would care if they are Chocolate or not if they want them for retrieving?

Have your dogs been tested and cleared of genetic defects - OFA'd against hip displaysia, which I'm sure you know is a common problem in Labs?

How old are your dogs? When dogs want to mate, there is no "too tall" and you should know this as a breeder.

Petfinder alone lists 11,000 homeless Labs, many of them purebred and even puppies and most of them are in the USA, and not Canada. I would call that a serious overpopulation problem.

And AKC registration is no guarantee of breeding quality in any way.

joemoe
April 21st, 2005, 07:55 AM
You all will not change me or the my intentions on breeding. My dogs are 2 and 3 and as I stated before they are seen by my vet and yes the male is hip certed and the female is as well she was x-rayed at one year and again after her first heat. Size of the male is an issue because I had Rotties that had the same problem and I wound up neutering and spaying them both. I mentioned AKC because they are pure in breed. I do not have them in competition, however, I am working my male for the ESPN outdoor games dock dogs competition..He is an excellent jumper. I also never denied that the U.S. didn't have a dog overcrowding problem you all should focus you energy to those who aren't responsible. FYI to all interested if anyone buys a dog from me the dog is neutered or spayed before they recieve the pup. If they want to breed I have a secondary application that my main breeder reviews and decides on. Thanks

joemoe
April 21st, 2005, 07:57 AM
You all will not change me or the my intentions on breeding. My dogs are 2 and 3 and as I stated before they are seen by my vet and yes the male is hip certed and the female is as well she was x-rayed at one year and again after her first heat. Size of the male is an issue because I had Rotties that had the same problem and I wound up neutering and spaying them both. I mentioned AKC because they are pure in breed. I do not have them in competition, however, I am working my male for the ESPN outdoor games dock dogs competition..He is an excellent jumper. I also never denied that the U.S. didn't have a dog overcrowding problem you all should focus you energy to those who aren't responsible. FYI to all interested if anyone buys a dog from me the dog is neutered or spayed before they recieve the pup. If they want to breed I have a secondary application that my main breeder reviews and decides on. Thanks Spend more time with your dog and less time on a soap box alone.

Lizzie
April 21st, 2005, 08:07 AM
Spend more time with your dog and less time on a soap box alone.


What is that supposed to mean?! Everyone who has posted a response to your comment spends time with their pets---they don't breed their animals and contribute to the overpopulation in the USA or Canada. They have their animals for life, and treat them as members of the family. Judging from the information you have provided, the same cannot be said for you.

Many of them also spend countless hours rescuing and saving unwanted animals from death...do you participate in animal rescue or do you only partake in the breeding of animals?

As far as you not being a backyard breeder, that remains to be seen if you ask me. You've had Mals, Rotties and Labs....all of which you wanted to breed. Sounds fishy to me.

Lucky Rescue
April 21st, 2005, 08:09 AM
You're selling dogs as retrievers and don't know if they will retrieve a bird in the field? Wow. Chocolate (or even strawberry) means nothing if the dog won't retrieve and no serious duck hunter would ever take a pup from unproven parents.

Spend more time with your dog and less time on a soap box alone.

We spend lots of time with our dogs, but not in trying to make them mate.;)

you all should focus you energy to those who aren't responsible

That's what we're doing here. Anyone who is breeding for a "popular" colour and not for ability or conformation is NOT responsible. Sorry.:D

badger
April 21st, 2005, 08:12 AM
I'm wondering why you bothered to come on the board at all. You seem to have it all together. And yet your question is pretty basic, something the expert you claim to be would ordinarily know. Excuse us if we're not impressed.

Someone who freely quotes himself should avoid the word 'soapbox'. IMHO.

Beaglemom
April 21st, 2005, 08:21 AM
If I were into hunting and was searching for a good retriever, I would only buy from a reputable breeder with field titled dogs. To me, reputable breeder means someone who is in it for the love and betterment of their specific breed. A reputable breeder picks one or two breeds that they have fallen in love with and researched extensively. They then either show them to their championship or in a field dog, they enter them in field trials and only when they have field titles do they consider breeding them. Breeding is not done for profit. Just ask any breeder.

I would never buy a hunting retriever from someone who breeds dogs without having any titles! JMHO.

Now that being said, do any of your dogs have any titles? You might want to consider that before even thinking of breeding. Like I said, any serious hunter will not buy a dog from you unless your breeding dogs have titles.

Also, it doesn't sound to me like you are even very familiar with breeding animals in the first place. Breeding dogs is not simply putting a female together with a male. I think you might need to do a bit more research. JMHO.

joemoe
April 21st, 2005, 08:51 AM
Take the "ask a Vet" off of this sight you all are lunatics and obbsessed with a cause that you may help but never come close to curing. I love my dogs and I never mentioned selling them to hunters just goes to show you never assume anything. The dogs "labs" I love them with all of my heart and their parents are of great blood lines. I wanted to breed these dogs to give them away, hence the spaying and neutering, to families with children who are responsible enough to own and care for a dog. I also know and so do they that they are getting a dog from a family that knows what is like to look in the paper and see the high priced dogs and try and think about spending that kind of money is insane fo a family dog. That is why I started this idea for giving deserving and responsible kids a safe and loving dog like a lab. I will, however, sell one if it is strawberry just because it would be a one of a kind. But thanks for flying off the handle at me instead of asking instead of yelling out facts that are all ready known. :usa: :usa: :usa: :usa: :usa:

Writing4Fun
April 21st, 2005, 09:03 AM
Where I live the demand for Labs, especially chocolate, is very high. There are a ton of waterfowl hunters in this area and finding good homes for yhe pups will be no problem at all, in fact, I have a small waiting list.
That's where they got the idea that you were selling them to hunters.

By the way, you have posted in the Training Talk forum, not the Ask the Vet forum. So your comment about "Ask the Vet" has no basis here.

I won't repeat what has already been said, or rather "facts that are already known". By your own admission, you are aware of the issue of pet overpopulation and will knowingly contribute to the problem. So, now we know what kind of person you really are. Let's not waste our breath here, folks. :mad:

Copper'sMom
April 21st, 2005, 09:09 AM
joemoe, interesting name.

mona_b
April 21st, 2005, 09:13 AM
What are the pedigrees of the Sire and Dam of your dogs?Any titles?Any Retrieving Champions?Do you belong to any clubs?Especially Sporting ones?

Do you know anything about this breed?Something tells me not since you are on here asking how to breed them...... :rolleyes:

You say you don't have them in compatition,so how do you know they will produce true retrieving dogs?Have you ever been to a Retriever Field Trial?Have you seen these dogs in action?They come from a long line of Sporting dogs.And they start training at a very young age.And it can take years of training.

Compatition or Show every breed has a standard.And it sounds like your dogs are not of breed standard...The male should be between 22 1/2 to 24 1/2" at the shoulders.The female should be from 21 1/2 to 23 1/2" at the shoulders.Anything above or below is not of breed standard.Anyone getting a Lab for Retriver Field Sporting will do so from a reputable breeder who has their dogs in this sport.

And I agree,breeding only for a colour demand is soooo very wrong.

As for the BYB,sorry to say but you would be under this catagory.You are not a reputable breeder.You don't have Champion or Titles dogs.You don't belong to any clubs.And to top it off,you want to breed because there is a high demand for Chocolate Labs.Something NO reputable breeder would do.Sorry,but colour doesn't make a difference in a Lab.Especially in Retriever Trials.A Black or Yellow Lab can preform just as good as a Chocolate.

As for us spending time with our dogs,BUDDY,that's what we do.WE have our dogs s/n.WE don't feel the need to breed cause there is a demand on a certain colour or breed of dog.There are people on here who do fostering and rescue work.Check out your shelters,that's probably where the pups will end up if they are not good enough for their field work.

mona_b
April 21st, 2005, 09:19 AM
There are a ton of waterfowl hunters in this area and finding good homes for yhe pups will be no problem at all

AHEM,yes you did mention you wanted to sell them to hunters. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

happycats
April 21st, 2005, 09:20 AM
you all are lunatics and obbsessed with a cause that you may help but never come close to curing.

:clown: Booowaaahhaaaahaaa, :clown: :clown: If you think we are a bunch of lunatics, why did you sign up here ???

You are right, we will never come close to "curing" this cause, Thanks to people like YOU !!!! :thumbs up (BYB)

Trinitie
April 21st, 2005, 09:35 AM
I came OH SO CLOSE to closing this post, but this person needs to have information given to him with both barrels.

Selling unproven dogs because of color, to people who hunt waterfowl, is so irresponsible, I can't fathom why anyone would wish to do it. I know people who have uniquely colored dogs, dogs of highly desirable color, but they do the responsible thing - spay/neuter their dogs. You say you wish to "give away" your dogs, but if there's enough demand for them, I'm sure you'll end up selling them for what could be thought of as a "bit" of a profit. You clearly have alterior motives other than the betterment of the breed, or you wouldn't be trying to breed them so badly. Your dogs should be champions in their fields. AKC papers mean nothing. People who know dogs, and how to properly breed them, know this.

You're nothing more than a BYB.

Lucky Rescue
April 21st, 2005, 10:00 AM
their parents are of great blood lines.

It doesn't matter if their parents are the most titled dogs in the world and with the best bloodlines.

If YOUR dogs do not have any titles you should not be breeding them to supply people with pets. That is highly irresponsible.

Please calm down and don't be so defensive. YOU said you were breeding these dogs for waterfowl hunters. Please re-read your posts. So now you're not? Pets or retrievers - which is it?

Selling untested and untitled dogs for retrieving is as bad as breeding untested and untitled border collies for sheep ranchers. No one who knows their stuff would want either one. What good is a working dog that can't work?

You have been given lots of information and advice. You don't have to like it, but I hope you will consider it and give up backyard breeding dogs to add to the pet overpopulation.

SarahLynn123
April 21st, 2005, 10:09 AM
I love my dogs and I never mentioned selling them to hunters just goes to show you never assume anything. I wanted to breed these dogs to give them away, hence the spaying and neutering, to families with children who are responsible enough to own and care for a dog. I also know and so do they that they are getting a dog from a family that knows what is like to look in the paper and see the high priced dogs and try and think about spending that kind of money is insane fo a family dog. That is why I started this idea for giving deserving and responsible kids a safe and loving dog like a lab. I will, however, sell one if it is strawberry just because it would be a one of a kind. But thanks for flying off the handle at me instead of asking instead of yelling out facts that are all ready known. :usa: :usa: :usa: :usa: :usa:

So now you say you are going to s/n all these puppies and give them away??? How kind and generous of you. UNfortunatly if these families are not willing to pay for a dog (adoption fee) then they are most likely not going to pay for good food, vet bills, and other necessities. You should also read up on what happens to pets when they are given away for free. (There is a big write up on the adoption thread)

There are plenty of good dogs and puppies that need homes, It would be best if you woul dreconsider breeding and allow these dogs that are already born a chance for a good home

Bearsmom
April 21st, 2005, 10:16 AM
I am no backyard breeder.

Yeah, you are.

Lizzie
April 21st, 2005, 10:21 AM
If you intend to give these dogs away for free--and pay the cost of spaying and neutering all of them (labs have 5 to 9 puppies right?) then you must be pretty rich!

You could, if you were so inclined to help the cause instead of adding to it, take that money and pay the adoption free for 5-9 people to adopt labs that are currently homeless (of equal quality to yours of course).


If this were a selfless act, you'd be at the shelters and rescues helping out--not adding to overpopulation.

Thanks anyway, but I don't buy this part of your story.

Safyre
April 21st, 2005, 10:38 AM
My suggestion in regards to breeding, is that the male just simply may not be interested in the female. The female may be giving him signs that she does not want him, is this the first time you have attempted to breed this girl?

joemoe
April 21st, 2005, 11:01 AM
Cry Cry Cry...... man I know I have way better things to do and talking to Canadiens isn't one of them. Thanks for the help and thanks for your over-priced hockey players crying for the salary cap so your country might have a chance at keeping some hockeyor get the cup back. :thumbs up :usa: :evil:

happycats
April 21st, 2005, 11:06 AM
:ca: I guess you have no defence, so you have to act like the "child" you really are and insult our country :ca: Well I love it here, and I would not stoop to your level and insult your country :usa: !

Get an education moejoe,and leave the breeding to the experts!

Oh Canada, we stand on guard..............*standing at attention*

By the way, what the hell does hockey and Canada have to do with BYB :confused:

Eleni
April 21st, 2005, 11:06 AM
good deflection from the fact your doing something apprehensible.

enjoy your day :)

Eleni

Bearsmom
April 21st, 2005, 11:08 AM
Cry Cry Cry...... man I know I have way better things to do and talking to Canadiens isn't one of them. Thanks for the help and thanks for your over-priced hockey players crying for the salary cap so your country might have a chance at keeping some hockeyor get the cup back. :thumbs up :usa: :evil:

Um, yeah, okay.

Exactly how many Montreal Canadiens do you know?

Again, without flogging a dead horse here, no one here is going to offer advice on how to breed a tall dog with a shorter one. No one here is going to condone a backyard breeder like you.

If you truly cared about your dogs, you'd have them both fixed, and stop contributing to the overpopulation of pets. You really wanna see what happens to unwanted pets? Go to your local humane society on pts days. Hold a paw while that innocent dog who was nothing but a product of "gee I'll just breed these two for fun", is injected. Look deep into the animal's eyes as they breathe their last breath, then go home and try breeding your dogs.

PS The Stanley Cup isn't as important as you think it is....get a life, toots.

badger
April 21st, 2005, 11:11 AM
Not too up on your hockey either. The owners want the salary cap, not the players. Anyways, the upshot of all this greed is that the US is going to lose alot of those crappy franchises that shouldn't have been granted in the first place.

And we don't elect morons to run the country either.

CyberKitten
April 21st, 2005, 11:14 AM
I will only answer the question posed by the person who began this thread if the chocolate labs are titled, she is an experienced breeder or has a mentor from one of the resgistries that host the various shows (a prerequisite for new breeders) and the labs have a lineage and pedigree that go back several generations so that he health and genetic issues of the dogs can be verified. It is also essential to know that these two are not related in any way since that certainly does not enhance the breed.

There are many many chocolate labs already available - in rescues - and those are EVERYWHERE - or experienced breeders who have retired show dogs or new puppies for sale.

If none of these condtions apply, I can only say I am appalled!

Lucky Rescue
April 21st, 2005, 11:15 AM
what the hell does hockey and Canada have to do with BYB

When someone cannot come up with a mature and intelligent response, they often resort to childish insults. I notice backyard breeders always get extremely defensive and hostile when asked reasonable questions.

You are certainly very altruisitc, I"ll give you that. Let's see....if your dog has 10 puppies and you give them away but are going to spay and neuter first:

All that spaying and neutering, PLUS vaccinations, plus all the food for the puppies until they are 10 or 12 weeks old comes to around 3,000$ and that is of course if none are sick.

Very generous of you.

If you cannot reply with anything other than immature nonsense, please don't bother. We've heard it all. :rolleyes:

CyberKitten
April 21st, 2005, 11:17 AM
Re: FYI to all interested if anyone buys a dog from me the dog is neutered or spayed before they recieve the pup. If they want to breed I have a secondary application that my main breeder reviews and decides on. Thanks

OMG!! I did not scan all the replies(doing this on my lunch hr -shorter today for a variety of reasons). I don't think selling or advocating selling puppies or kittens or other animals is allowed on this Board so can I ask the moderators to remove that please!!! Thank you!

Writing4Fun
April 21st, 2005, 11:23 AM
Cry Cry Cry...... man I know I have way better things to do and talking to Canadiens isn't one of them. Thanks for the help and thanks for your over-priced hockey players crying for the salary cap so your country might have a chance at keeping some hockeyor get the cup back. :thumbs up :usa: :evil:
Ooohhhh! I get it now! You're not really breeding your dogs - you're a troll! Well, your posts make a lot more sense now! Thanks for clearing that up for me! :rolleyes:

Lizzie
April 21st, 2005, 11:32 AM
joemoe--because I know you value the level of education on this site, I thought you should know that it's spelled CANADIANS not CANADIENS. That is if you are referring to those of us who hold citizenship in Canada.
:thumbs up

CyberKitten
April 21st, 2005, 11:42 AM
The Canadiens are the hockey team in Montreal :) and if you do refer to French speaking Canadians - to be politically correct, you must say les Canadiens et les Candiennes!

Just trying to be helpful. (Wow, this thread is going off madly in all directions, lol)

Lizzie
April 21st, 2005, 11:46 AM
The Canadiens are the hockey team in Montreal :) and if you do refer to French speaking Canadians - to be politically correct, you must say les Canadiens et les Candiennes!

Just trying to be helpful. (Wow, this thread is going off madly in all directions, lol)

Exactly. There was already a mention about the Habs so I left that one out. I figured that since joemoe was using English in his/her comments that he/she must have been attempting to use the English spelling of the word!

And yes...this has veered off into a new direction! In all fairness though, the intellectual levels on this board were called into question!

Lucky Rescue
April 21st, 2005, 11:48 AM
I will only answer the question posed by the person who began this thread if the chocolate labs are titled, she is an experienced breeder or has a mentor from one of the resgistries that host the various shows (a prerequisite for new breeders)

A knowledgeble and responsible breeder would never ask such a question here.

They would also not be trying to breed dogs who are so different in height that one would be out of standard.

All we are going to get is "Nyah nyah" babytalk from the OP, so this is the end of this.