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very discouraged...back to square one...

twinmommy
April 20th, 2005, 12:05 PM
:confused:

Hi All

I am sure that all of you who are realistic know that all it's not always rosy over here with Gypsy. Anyone who doesn't know the whole story can search I believe the original thread was "Gypsy needs a new home" it'll save me boring people with old details. (when I can bore you with new... :( )

We have been regressing a lot in the last little while. She has been getting out of the backyard--four times last week--as we had a hole in the fence. We kept thinking that we repaired it and she would find another hole...(it's not our fence so we were limited as to how we could fix it) anyways!! getting off topic there... she encountered little kids on their way to school and we caught her in what might have been the nick of time--shackles up, ears back, with little munchkins appraoching her. :eek: :eek: :eek:

She has again growled and bore her teeth at my daughters for getting to close to her. The kids are almost walking now and I still live with baby gates, but sometimes things happen just in the time that the dogs and kids share turf when the dogs go out in the backyard for a pee. those of you with small children know tha **** happens and many have already commented in previous threads that I won't be able to pull this off.....I am starting to think that you are right. :sad:

I am so sad and discouraged right now....I feel that I owe this dog a nice life, but I also owe my children a safe environment ABOVE ALL.. and I feel like I'm running out of time...I fell like I am being warned and that one day I will have a situation on my hand that I could have prevented.

I don"t even know why I'm posting, I just needed to vent I guess. I don't expect a stream of replies when I could just go and read my old threads..it's repetitive and exhausting for me so I could just imagine for you guys.... :(

As I said, just needed to vent...(sorry for the length..)

BMDLuver
April 20th, 2005, 03:17 PM
:confused:

I am so sad and discouraged right now....I feel that I owe this dog a nice life, but I also owe my children a safe environment ABOVE ALL.. and I feel like I'm running out of time...I fell like I am being warned and that one day I will have a situation on my hand that I could have prevented.


Although this may be difficult, I think the time has come for Gypsy to be pts. You have gone above and beyond to try to make this work. The big picture is very full of "what ifs" and as you have already realized, you may not be so lucky the next time. There comes a time when you have to look at the safety of your children, the general public and the quality of life that Gypsy now has. It's a terrible position to be in but I think you know in your heart what now needs to be done. If you need help or friendship, I'm here for either. Just holler. :grouphug:

Britishvixen21
April 20th, 2005, 03:20 PM
Hey Twin,

Im so sorry that you are having trouble with your doggy. I did not read the last thread so I dont really know the situation, and dont really have any advice. I just wanted to say that I feel for your situation.

I hope that you find a resolution

:grouphug:

tenderfoot
April 20th, 2005, 04:06 PM
Would it really be so tough to find her a home with older folks and no kids?
We just worked with a great, old grouch in a foster home (he bit his foster mom 3 times in 1 week, and drew blood each time) - we worked with him 1 time last month and she has called to report that he is a changed man and that she feels confident finding him a home with an older couple. Not all cases are the same but I think yours is just not the right home for her- not that no home is right for her.
If the hairs on the back of your neck are up - listen to them and do something because whats happening now is not working and the results are pointing to disaster.

BMDLuver
April 20th, 2005, 04:22 PM
Would it really be so tough to find her a home with older folks and no kids?


http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=9234&highlight=Gypsy

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=9377&highlight=Gypsy

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=10194&highlight=Gypsy

I don't think it's possible to do so as most of the rescues feel it would be a huge liability to try it. The above threads illustrate some of the ups and downs that they have had to cope with.

tenderfoot
April 20th, 2005, 04:35 PM
I have to claim ignorance here, as I do not know what the rescue/re-homing stats are in Canada.
We have the gammet here in the US. Some shelters will destroy a dog in the first hour it arrives for health or behavior problems while others will do everything they can to keep the dog alive for the duration of its life. We even have a shelter in Colorado called 'Ugly Dawgs' - where she takes in large dogs who can't live in society safely, and they live their lives out with her and all of the other dogs. It's a different life style, but no less great for the dogs.

happycats
April 20th, 2005, 05:32 PM
Oh twinmommy, I am so sorry to hear about Gypsy, ,I know how hard you have tried to make this work :sad: . I think it's time for Gypsy to move on, Maybe with luck there is a home out there for her!

Our dog hated children, and would try to bite them. we were teenagers at the time so there was never a worry about her being around small children, so it worked out for her. Maybe there is a family out there with teen children that would take on Gypsy ?

I wish you all the best, and know how you must feel, but this isn't working, and you have to protect your children.
PM me if you ever need someone to talk to . :grouphug:

twinmommy
April 20th, 2005, 08:33 PM
Hi guys.

Thanks for the kind thoughts. As far as re-homing, I don't think that I could do that to her. I would always worry if the new owners would be as tolerant as we are of her behaviour...or if she would be abused. Even the most level headed people condone hitting dogs claiming that's "what they need" and I can't stand that.

There was one woman who had phoned when I had her pic on the wall at my friends vet--but by then we had decided to keep her. I will phone this woman, but this was back in January, so I'll bet she might already have a dog.

I agree with you BMD, as sad as it is, I am at the end of my rope here. :sad:

Thanks again BritVix, and Happy and Tenderfoot for the encouragement :grouphug:

BMDLuver
April 20th, 2005, 08:39 PM
I agree with you BMD, as sad as it is, I am at the end of my rope here. :sad:

I'm sorry that I can't be more helpful with the advice. I feel terrible about this and I know how desperately you don't want to be in this position. But I have already met your lovley little girls and couldn't imagine something happening to them. I know it's a risk I would not take knowingly with my girls. I'm here for coffee or anything you might need help with at anytime. :grouphug:

Lucky Rescue
April 20th, 2005, 10:23 PM
My last dog could not be trusted with kids, but because by that time there were no kids in the house (only for visits) we could safely keep him.

I have to say that if we had small children at that time, we could not have kept him either. No one can supervise every minute of every day and it only takes one second for major damage to be done.

The whole thing is very sad, but you can't risk your kids, or other people's kids.:(

I'm really sorry it turned out this way. We know how hard you tried.

I seem to recall that Gypsy has other aggression issues, not just towards kids.

twinmommy
April 20th, 2005, 10:33 PM
No one can supervise every minute of every day and it only takes one second for major damage to be done.

true. I don't know why I thought I could, but I'm giving myself ulcers trying.
The kids have to come first. Period.

Yes she had issues with us too, but as an adult, you can call her bluff, and also make proper judgement calls about the battles you win and lose.

Kids can't do that. And the dog senses the lack of authority in the kids as well, I believe.

:sad:

CyberKitten
April 20th, 2005, 10:49 PM
(((Twinmommy))) I am so sorry to hear what yo are going thru. I know how hard you have worked and how much you have put into it. You have really been there for Gyspsy. However, it just does not sound safe for the children now and that's scary! IF a rescue group of some kind could find the perfect older family who had patience galore and experience in helping a dog with Gypsy's problems (no children), that might work. But I understand how you feel about worrying about her.

All I can say is :grouphug:

If that perfect family is not available, maybe the only humane solution is to put her to sleep (and you know how I eel about doing that to a healthy dog - I realize her agression does make her technically ill, sigh - you certainly have given her a great life. But a disaster could change your children's life forever and that would be just as hard to live with!

I do not envy your situation and hope there is some miracle that will allow you to find that wonderful family out there. If not, I am there for you!!

Prin
April 21st, 2005, 12:27 AM
Thanks for the kind thoughts. As far as re-homing, I don't think that I could do that to her. I would always worry if the new owners would be as tolerant as we are of her behaviour...or if she would be abused. Even the most level headed people condone hitting dogs claiming that's "what they need" and I can't stand that. Please don't put her to sleep. In another home without kids, she may a pleasure to have around. My dad's Jack bit a baby and got brought to a shelter that we were on a waiting list with for a Jack. I think if we hadn't been in close contact with the shelter, the doggy would have been put down. He is a terrific doggy. He absolutely hates kids though, but as my dad and step mom have passed their kid phase, it doesn't matter to them. They had a two year old over and the doggy nipped his sweater once but they were watching him so closely and he didn't do it again. It was obvious that he was aching to do something to this kid though. It was the only kid my dad had ever had over and he knew ahead of time to watch out. But he is the perfect dog for them. He hikes with them and my dad who is thinks dogs are dogs and not people, actually lets this bugger sleep in his bed and on the sofa. He is such a sweet dog to them, but a total menace to the previous owner.

There is a home for this dog. You just have to pick some one who has had dominant breeds, like huskies, who has experience and follow up often. The lady who gave us Jemma told us she was unsociable and totally visious with other dogs. We bring her to the dog park now and she fits in completely. Dogs really can change when they are put into a new family.

twinmommy
April 21st, 2005, 11:20 AM
prin--as was mentioned before, the issue is not only with kids. The dog is dominant/aggressive. She just won't "push around" an adult the same way she would a child. We've called her bluff for forever, and it's more troublesome with children bc you can't take that chance, but it was an issue BEFORE the kids. I would be afraid of her biting ANYONE, not just kids. Kids, toddlers especially, are easy targets for her, but she's already nipped my FIL who's a great "dog person", just she decided she didn't want to be pet at that moment. She's a wonderful dog with a short fuse. She could behave beautifully for 2-3 weeks, and then you have an incident that scares the hell out of you, and then back to square one. :sad:

Lucky Rescue
April 21st, 2005, 12:18 PM
She could behave beautifully for 2-3 weeks, and then you have an incident that scares the hell out of you, and then back to square one

Right. Trying to find a suitable home for a large, unpredictable and aggressive dog is pretty impossible.

It's the "unpredictable" part that makes her dangerous.:(

Lizzie
April 21st, 2005, 12:42 PM
I agree--while it may be tough to do, you really have to put your interests with your babies at this point. It's out of protection for them, and for your dog that you have to make this choice.

As far as rehoming, it's very different to rehome a small JRT than a large chow mix. Small dogs are not feared as much as large dogs when they are agressive....it's not the same situation.

Trinitie
April 21st, 2005, 01:43 PM
There are times when you just can't fix the burdens that some dogs carry. While you will be saddened at the thought of having Gypsy PTS, in the long run it may be the most humane thing you can do for her. She's showing signs of increased danger to your children and the children of the area, not to mention how she makes you feel at times.

I agree that there may be no other option. You have certainly tried your darndest and there shouldn't be one person who should fault you for doing what may be necessary. Many other people would have given up long ago.

Prin
April 21st, 2005, 10:45 PM
I read the three threads that BMD posted, but I guess I missed the part about her being aggressive with everyone. If you have tried your best to no avail, then I guess you've got to do what's best for everyone involved. Maybe in her next life she'll be a different species and like the skin she's in.

DogueLover
April 22nd, 2005, 11:17 AM
Twinmommy I am so saddened at the position you find yourself in. It is a very difficult thing to do but from what I have read you know in your heart what you need to do. It is not only for your girls and yourself but for Gypsy as well.
Rehoming her would be near impossible, and she may even become more aggressive knowing that she was moved from the home she has lived in this long. Our neighbours had a chow chow and a rotti, the chow chow was always passive with the kids but had a high prey drive. She killed their kittens on a regular basis and was very aggressive to strangers.
I worked with a Rotti that had been severely abused for most of her life. She had so many triggers and was the most unpredictable dog I have ever known. Sometimes you cannot fix what is messed up in their heads, no matter how hard you try.
Find the comfort in the fact that you gave her every opportunity to live a long and happy life with you, and know that your decision for what to do now is out of your compassion and love for her. As you said, in a new home the owners may not be as patient and tolerant and she may end up being abused simply because of her attitude.
We all know how hard you have tried and we will be behind you and here for you when the time comes.

:grouphug: for you and your twins.

kandy
April 22nd, 2005, 12:25 PM
I am so sorry to hear about Gypsy. I wish that I could help but I have too many kids around my neighborhood. Good luck and I wish you the best. :sad:

Kayla and Me
April 22nd, 2005, 10:29 PM
I admit that I don't know the history here, but have you tried some good hard scheduling of everyone? The dog obviously feels it has the dominant role with your kids. So maybe you have to give her some time until the kids a old enough and you can teach them to take to the dominant role. (ie...when the kids are awake and playing..the dog is caged. When they are napping or sleeping the dog is let out) Dogs will adjust this kind of routine. Personally, I too would never put my kids in jeopardy, but I would also realize that the dog is only acting instinctively, and not out to purposely hurt my children. Any interraction betweent the kids and the dog should be in a controlled environment, for now. It won't last forever.

Years ago when my kids were young I had the same problem. The dog had positioned herself between me, my husband, the dog, the kids. I had to teach the kids to take the agresssive role and put the dog in her place. It wasn't a quick thing, but eventually they all came into place. Wishing you well.

Kayla and Me

chico2
April 23rd, 2005, 09:58 AM
Twinmommy,I've read all the old posts and these new ones..although I hate to say this,a new home might not be possible and she could once again end up in a shelter,only to be put down,by strangers... :sad:
You have certainly fought hard and tried your best...I can imagine how difficult it must be to make the final desicion for Gypsy,but you'll do the right thing,with love in your heart :grouphug:

twinmommy
April 23rd, 2005, 11:06 PM
I don't think that there is much hope of re-homing either, and then I'd worry about her....is it selfish for me to want to put her down for my own peace of mind? If she ever bit anyone..kid/adult whatever...and then the abuse she could suffer elsewhere....

I'm really having trouble with the next step here guys.... :sad: :sad: :sad:

Thanks Chico, Dogue, and everyone for your kind thoughts. :grouphug: you guys rock. Your thoughts mean a lot to me.

amber416
April 24th, 2005, 04:47 AM
I don't think it's selfish at all...i think it's very responsible actually. Putting the dog down is a hard thing to do, but you are doing it with the dog's best interest in mind, as well as thinking about children or adults the dog could hurt in the future if rehomed. That is hardly selfish. Good luck with this tough situation!