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pregant mini pin

gabbie_1965
April 19th, 2005, 09:19 PM
I have a 3 1/2 year old pregant mini pin. I have heard that small dogs sometimes have problems giving birth. This is her ( and mine) first time. I am worried that she will have problems and I could possiably lose her. Any suggestions forme?

Safyre
April 19th, 2005, 09:55 PM
Well first suggestion is, BRING HER TO THE VET.
You SHOULD have spoken to the vet about this before she got pregnant. Because if she has problems now, you're looking at a HIGH vet bill. Why did you breed her without thinking about this first?

gabbie_1965
April 19th, 2005, 10:38 PM
In response to Safyre:

This was not a planned thing. My mother was taking care of her while we were on vacation.......she got lose by the time she found her it was too late.

Safyre
April 19th, 2005, 10:41 PM
how old is the dog, and why wasn't she spayed?
Have you taken her to the vet to find out what the vet thinks?
We are not vets, we cannot tell you if your animal is going to have a problem or not.

Lucky Rescue
April 19th, 2005, 11:12 PM
Toy breeds often have problems giving birth and could possibly need anything from induced labour to a C-section. Safyre is right - she must go to the vet.

How pregnant is she? What kind of dog[s] is the father? You can still have her spayed and end the pregnancy.

Just curious - why was a 3 1/2 yr old dog not spayed?

CyberKitten
April 19th, 2005, 11:23 PM
She can still be spayed now. In fact, your vet may tell you this. I did read your response to Safyre (whose qestion re: spaying I wondered about too but with all due respect, I can only say you pretty much decided to allow her to get pregnant by waiting 3 1/2 yrs to spay her! That's asking for trouble!

Like most people on this forum, I believe in breeding cats/dogs/small animals ONLY if they happen to be a breed champion who has won several shows and thus their very careful and scientific and medically supervised breeding will somehow enhance and improve the breed. (Tho last night I read on a site where someone was breeding her purebred Siamese who had won 8th place - hardly a reason for enhancing her qualities!!). Anything else- even unplanned - and excepting Rescues who take in the kittens and puppies that are the result of accidents, planned backyard breeders who only want a profit or even people who foolishly breed their dogs because the puppies will be cute or other outragous reasons - is backyard breeding.

You may not have conciously planned for her to give birth BUT by not spaying her, you have placed her in an even worse scenario and are risking her life! Do you know at all who the father is? Was he a large dog? Was he a purebred? Was he a MinPin? Is your dog a show dog or pet quality MinPin? Do you have any experience at all in caring for a Mother dog and her puppies? Are you prepared for the time, expense, medical emergencies, training of puppies before they are ready to leave their mom and other aspects of this?

You did not say how many months along she is but unless someone with more knowledge than I have about dogs has a better idea, I think spaying her NOW may be the best thing you can do for her. (Bringing puppies into a world already overpopulated by cute canines, including many purebreds, who for the most part will be put to death at a shelter - would not be wise.)

You might write Angie who posted this about het MinPin (I have her email addy is you want it): "My dog Sadie died about 10 months ago, She was a min-pin. Black and Tan 4 years old. She was my babie she loved me very much and was very affectionate. She was a good mother, friend and protector. She died from complications from pregnancy. I still miss her very much. "

Or you could write to Carrie who responded to a question about someone seeking to breed her MinPin AFTER this baby's mother had died from complications in delivering SEVEN puppies:

"Is your girl a champion or will she be, showing that she has impecable conformation? She must be very fine indeed. And of course, you will have had all the genetic health testing and temperament testing done on her. That must be very expensive (hundreds of dollars) along with a vet who knows how to crop and dock, right? (also hundreds, probably thousands of dollars depending on your litter size) Or don't you have to do that with Min Pins? Of course, I bet show people would want that and you might get a dog or two who someone wants for show...that may likely measure up with the reputable, proven bloodlines your dog and the stud dog have. If you don't get stupendous quality, buyers can just as well go to a purebred rescue or shelter and help reduce all those unwanted pups that need homes, right?"

You might want to also consider that reputable Min Pin breeders require that any Min Pin bred have the following:

Must have CH title...AKC or ASCA
Must be 2 years of age
Must have OFA or Pennhip cert of good or excellent

You have the 2 yrs of age at any rate, sigh!

And for good measure, here are the many rescued Min Pin puppies who already need homes:

http://www.minpinrescue.org/

I am sorry if I sound a tad sarcastic but I am shocked that you would wait 3 1/2 yrs to spay her (were you actually going to spay her?) and then now wonder because she is pregnant? I even wondered if this was one of these posts someone wrote just to get us going but I have written my advice in the event that it is not.

Please spay your dog and do her a favour!!!

MIA
April 21st, 2005, 12:19 PM
Good post CyberKitten and YES there are many MinPins in rescue, I am the western Canadian rep for IMPS and currently have too many dogs in need, I am getting yet another one this weekend!!!

If you can spay NOW and abort the litter.

IF you decide to let your pin have her babies PLEASE chip them in your name so that IF they end up in a shelter or rescue they can be returned to you. Screen the homes as a rescue/reputable breeder would I also strongly suggest you pediatric spay/neuter the pups so that they can't be bred.

BMDLuver
April 21st, 2005, 12:22 PM
Pulled one minpin mix yesterday as she was set for pts at 5.5 months of age. Absolute little doll. Why would you wish to add to the numbers? Please think carefully about spaying her and eliminating this litter. It's for her safety and the sake of all the others that need help. I now know of 3 in this area being dumped apart from the one I just picked up. :sad:

nymph
April 21st, 2005, 01:50 PM
to this forum and what's going to happen to her min pin. http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage22/16.gif

gabbie_1965
April 21st, 2005, 06:49 PM
nymph........... I was watching to see what you all had to say. Now i feel the need to explain myself. I love my little mini pin with all my heart, however, she was a gift.... a gift i wasn't planning on. A very close friend of mine passed away very suddenly. She belonged to him. It was his idea not to spay her. Why I really don't know. But i really didn't have the money to get her spayed right away.
The father is a small dog(no not a mini pin). And yes i have taken her to the vet. He says he thinks she should be fine. I really haven't decided what to about the pups yet as like i said i am not in a position right now to have huge vet bills.

To cyberkitten: No this not one of those posts "just to get you going"
I was accually looking for help. unsure of what to do I came here. If I started something I AM sorry. Also she IS AKC. That makes two out of three. My intentions were never to be a BREEDER backyard or any other.

I am very well aware of all the dogs and cats that are dumped, either to the humane society of just out in the country to fend for themselves. If i do decide to keep the puppies I would make sure they go to good homes. Even if i have to keep them my self.
I am not some wide eyed pet owner who thought it would be cute or fun to have puppies. Nor am i one that is out to make a few dollars.

Please do not judge when all the information is not spilled out there for the world to see.

BMDLuver
April 21st, 2005, 07:18 PM
If you plan on raising this litter:

Have the people who adopt, friends or not, sign an adoption contract. As your funds are low, ask them for a $100 deposit. Use the deposit on each puppy for vaccination and speuter. Start researching for a vet in your area that will do speuter. Upon receipt of their puppy, charge them an additional $100 which you will give them a voucher for your vets office so that each pup can be microchipped with your information on them so that if they do dump the puppy without your knowledge, it will hopefully make it back to you via the chip information. If you need a copy of an adoption contract, give a holler and one of us will send you one.

mafiaprincess
April 21st, 2005, 07:44 PM
If you are not in a position to have a huge vet bill, then spaying her now is the cheaper option.

The puppies are going to have to see a vet after they are born, they need to be dewormed and given at least one if not 2 vaccinations depending upon how long it takes to find them homes.

If they have any illnesses they need to see a vet again, and if mom has trouble delivering its 600-1000 to pay for her c section.

CyberKitten
April 21st, 2005, 08:14 PM
Re: To cyberkitten: No this not one of those posts "just to get you going"
I was accually looking for help. unsure of what to do I came here. If I started something I AM sorry. Also she IS AKC. That makes two out of three. My intentions were never to be a BREEDER backyard or any other.

I am glad it was not. We do get those I am afraid and yours sounded just well, different. I do want to offer help and my best recommendation is to spay this girl. It is hard for anyone, incl me to make a decision if you do not provide all the details. This is a Board of ppl who love and will fight to the death to protect animals so we get very concerned when we hear of a pet that has not been spayed and is not a show quality one involved in the show circuit by a reputable known breeder (Not saying they are all perefect but that is the only condition and even then I have questions - I have 3 show quality cats in my home at the moment - two champions and one never shown. And the jury is out on whether two of them at any rate will ever have babies).

It takes much work and money to be a breeder and I do not question your love of your baby. I just think that under the circumstances as you have presented them, your best option is to spay her now - the sooner the better.

Good luck!

Lizzie
April 21st, 2005, 08:22 PM
Spaying her now, and aborting the babies will actually be a much smaller expense than allowing this birth to happen. It's a very sad situation you are in, but unfortunately when money is an issue, the best option you have right now is to spay and abort.

The fact remains that if she has these babies you will have a lot of financial burdens that come with having new puppies in your home. They'll needs shots, momma may need medical attention and/or some of her babies, they will need food, etc.

No one will suggest that this would be an easy route to go--but it would be the responsible route to go, both for your pup and your finances.

nymph
April 22nd, 2005, 09:09 AM
gabbie_1965: I'm so glad you came back! Even though you might feel like you are being judged, but I can assure you that you would find no better forum than this one on the entire Internet for pet issues. Members of this forum not only really really love their pets, but are also very knowledgeable.

It sounds like you don't know what you'll do to the pups, so I think your best solution now is to have her spayed. Many vets are involved in rescues as well, perhaps you could discuss with your vet to establish a monthly payment plan. I find that $200 seems to be a big amount, but $20 a month may not be a big deal for most people.

Where do you live, perhaps someone from this forum could refer you to a vet they know.

Lucky Rescue
April 22nd, 2005, 09:29 AM
If you are not in a position to have a huge vet bill, then spaying her now is the cheaper option.

The puppies are going to have to see a vet after they are born, they need to be dewormed and given at least one if not 2 vaccinations depending upon how long it takes to find them homes.

If they have any illnesses they need to see a vet again, and if mom has trouble delivering its 600-1000 to pay for her c section.

Exactly!! It's "Pay me now or pay me later" (and maybe a lot more later).

MIA
April 22nd, 2005, 12:45 PM
Not sure where you live but I know in some places they have humane societies or organziations that will help with a low cost spay/neuter and or payment plans.

pitbulliest
April 22nd, 2005, 01:47 PM
gabbie..I'm sorry to hear about your situation...you do seem like you really care about the dog...I hope you make the best decision for the pups and yourself..good luck and please keep us updated :)

gabbie_1965
April 22nd, 2005, 06:27 PM
Having never been in any type of forum I wasn't sure how much information i should give ( nothing worse than someone who wants to tell their life stories) so i decided to keep it simple.

I am thank-full for all the information, suggestions, and opitions you all have given me. Now I have a very difficult decison to make.

Just a couple more questions.

How long is a dog pregenat?

When is it no longer safe to abort?

I will keep you all updated !

BMDLuver
April 22nd, 2005, 07:27 PM
62 days gestation I believe. Most vets will not do a spay after the 48 day mark I believe.

Questions are good, they help to make an informed, less emotional decision. :)

Lucky Rescue
April 22nd, 2005, 07:31 PM
Some vets will spay until nearly delivery time.

In the US, you have an organization called "Spay USA" which will issue spay/neuter coupons for people with financial difficulties.

Here is the link:
Spay USA (http://www.spayusa.org/)

CyberKitten
April 22nd, 2005, 07:37 PM
I am more knowledgable about cats and rabbits but I do know that a vet will spay almost up to the time of the birth of the puppies. Certainly, the further from the due date the better. The link that Lucky gave is excellent.

Good luck in making your difficult decision and thanks for updatig us! We all hope your little one will be OK!!!

gabbie_1965
April 23rd, 2005, 05:23 PM
If BMD luver is right ....... My decision may already be made. I will have missed the 48 mark by 7 days. I will check with vet as soon as i can.

What ever i decide she will be spayed in the end.

Karin
April 23rd, 2005, 08:37 PM
63 days gestation. At 45 + days the mother can be xrayed to show a count of skulls. Counting skulls is better than spines, shows up better on the rad's.
Aborting constitutes euthanasia. Better now than later ....? If it were me, I would plan on a c-section once first stage labor is observed. (rectal temp will fall below 100 degrees within 24 hours of onset of labor)

nymph
April 25th, 2005, 12:04 PM
Aborting constitutes euthanasia.

I'm not sure if I understand this. :confused:

BMDLuver
April 25th, 2005, 12:45 PM
I'm not sure if I understand this. :confused:
After a certain point in the gestation, the puppies have a viability rate. The closer the due date the more likely the puppies are to survive birth. It's similar to having a csection done in a woman except the complete uterus is removed with the puppies alive. The vet then has to either pts the puppies or leave them there to die. :sad:

nymph
April 25th, 2005, 01:52 PM
Oh how horrible! A vet has that kind of authority?! I would think that if the vet would allow the kittens to be born, then both the owner and the vet would work towards finding adoptable homes for the kittens. Abortion for me means only aborting non-viable fetuses, I never would have thought that someone could willingly kill a newborn kitten.

Lucky Rescue
April 25th, 2005, 03:36 PM
This is a very difficult issue.

I never would have thought that someone could willingly kill a newborn kitten.

Yes, aborting full term kittens or puppies does amount to killing them, and we could never do this although considering how many animals are suffering and dying because of overpopulation, I can understand why someone would.

No vet wants to kill viable babies.

savannah
April 26th, 2005, 10:11 AM
Gabbie, please, if you are not in the position to have huge vet bills, please do not consider keeping the puppies yourself. Please find them a good home, as puppies are expensive, and even more so if any of the develop health problems.
I do feel for your girl.
And also, i know this is too late anyways, but if you knew you could not deal with huge vet bills, you should have never taken the dog.

MIA
April 26th, 2005, 10:34 AM
Not sure what area you are in but you can see if www.minpinrescue.org will help, I volunteer with them in Canada. They are a great organiation.

gabbie_1965
April 26th, 2005, 07:34 PM
Savannah: I have every intentions on trying to find these pups GOOD homes.
My vet has offered to help with that. In fact a few of my friends have expressed an interest in taken one.

I can handle normal vet bills vaccatons and that sort. My concern was problems with delivery. I guess when i took the dog I was thinking with my heart and not my head at the time.

I have talked with my vet and explained my situation and his is willing to let me make paymets to spay her afer the pups are born.

Lucky Rescue
April 26th, 2005, 08:28 PM
Will your vet also let you make payments if your dog needs a C-section? If she is very small and the pups are large this could happen. Hopefully it won't.

If you need help on how to screen adopters, what to ask as a fee, or if you need a sample adoption contract PM me with your email addy and I'll send one.

You are responsible for these puppies for life, so I know you want to do it right.:)

gabbie_1965
May 8th, 2005, 03:32 PM
just to let everyone know------ We have puppies !! Mother and all four puppies are doing just fine. They were born on Mothers day. I could not have asked for a better day!!

Lucky Rescue
May 8th, 2005, 06:06 PM
Thanks for the update and PLEASE post pics!!!

gabbie_1965
May 9th, 2005, 09:42 PM
hopefully there is a picture of mom and pups ( if i did this right !)

BMDLuver
May 9th, 2005, 09:44 PM
They are so tiny! Good job mom and Gabby! Thanks so much for sharing a photo!

Sneaky2006
May 9th, 2005, 09:45 PM
How cute!!!! :)