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Feeding Dish Debate

kandy
April 19th, 2005, 05:37 PM
I have always read/heard that for large dogs, the feeding bowls should be up off the ground to relieve the stress on their backs and hips - the bowls should come to chest level. Recently someone told me that having food bowls up off the ground increased the risk of bloat. Does anyone know if that's true? For the folks with large dogs: Do you have your babies bowls on the floor, or raised up??

greaterdane
April 19th, 2005, 05:40 PM
I have heard both as well, but I have also heard raising the bowl reduces the risk of bloat. I have a great dane and his bowl is elevated, even when he eats outside in the sun while we are out there, i put his dish on a planter something higher for him. The chis on the other hand, if they are not eating the carnage from Atticus' last feeding, they have a little bowl tucked underneath his bone shaped elevated bowl :)

Karin
April 19th, 2005, 06:18 PM
Lately, Ciara has her breakfast and dinner served in bed.

Prin
April 19th, 2005, 06:51 PM
Studies show that raising the bowl causes more bloat than if it is on the floor.

Boo actually eats lying down on his own so I don't mess with his instincts. He eats slowly on the floor too, probably because he has to reach a bit with his head. Jemma just eats with her bowl on the floor. When she is not so hungry, she lies down too, but it's rare.

Also, don't forget that some plastic bowls release a chemical that kills the black pigment in the nose. Not all plastics do this, but if your doggie's nose is pinker than it used to be, look into getting a metal one. The pigment does replenish though. We did an experiment on a golden retriever this summer and it took about 3 months to see a real difference in the darkness of his nose once the bowls were switched.

db7
April 19th, 2005, 07:11 PM
NO, DON'T DO IT!

http://www.vet.purdue.edu/epi/update2.htm

Canine Gastric Dilatation-Volvulus (Bloat)
School of Veterinary Medicine
Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN 47907-1243
Non-dietary risk factors for gastric dilatation-volvulus in large and giant breed dogs

Lawrence T. Glickman, VMD, DrPH; Nita W. Glickman, MS, MPH; Diana B. Schellenberg, MS;
Malathi Raghavan, DVM, MS; Tana Lee, BA

Summary of findings (references 1 & 2) -A 5-year prospective study was conducted to determine the incidence and non-dietary risk factors for gastric dilatation-volvulus (GDV) in 11 large- and giant-breed dogs and to assess current recommendations to prevent GDV. During the study, 21 (2.4%) and 20 (2.7%) of the large and giant breed dogs, respectively, had at least 1 episode of GDV per year of observation and 29.6% of these dogs died. Increasing age, increasing thorax depth/width ratio, having a first degree relative with a history of GDV, a faster speed of eating, and using a raised feed bowl, were associated with an increased incidence of GDV. Table 1 summarizes the magnitude and direction of GDV risk associated with having each of these factors. The relative risk (RR) indicates the likelihood of developing the disease in the exposed group (risk factor present) relative to those who are not exposed (risk factor absent). For example, a dog with a first degree relative with a history of GDV is 1.63 times (63%) more likely to develop GDV than a dog without a history of GDV. As another example, if dog A is a year older than dog B, then dog A is 1.20 times (20%) more likely to develop GDV than dog B.


Risk Factor Relative Risk Interpretation
Age in years 1.20 20% increase in risk for each year increase in age
Chest depth/width ratio
(1.0 to 2.4) 2.70 170% increase in risk for each unit increase in chest depth/width ratio
First degree relative with GDV (yes vs. no) 1.63 63% increase in risk associated with having a first degree relative with GDV
Using a raised feed bowl
(yes vs. no) 2.10 110% increase in risk associated with using a raised food bowl
Speed of eating (1-10 scale)
[for Large dogs only] 1.15 15% increase in risk for each unit increase in speed of eating score for large dogs

Most of the popular methods currently recommended to prevent GDV did not appear to be effective, and one of these, raising the feed bowl, may actually be detrimental in the breeds studied.In order to decrease the incidence of GDV, we suggest that dogs having a first degree relative with a history of GDV should not be bred.Prophylactic gastropexy appears indicated for breeds at the highest risk of GDV, such as the Great Dane.

References:

1. Lawrence T. Glickman, VMD, DrPH; Nita W. Glickman, MS, MPH; Diana B. Schellenberg, MS; Malathi Raghavan, DVM, MS; Tana Lee, BA. Incidence of and breed-related risk factors for gastric dilatation-volvulus in dogs.Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, 2000;216(1):40-45.

2. Lawrence T. Glickman, VMD, DrPH; Nita W. Glickman, MS, MPH; Diana B. Schellenberg, MS; Malathi Raghavan, DVM, MS; Tana Lee, BA. Non-dietary risk factors for gastric dilatation-volvulus in large and giant breed dogs. Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, 2000;217(10):1492-1499.

db7
April 19th, 2005, 07:12 PM
These studies were printed in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association.
2000;216(1)40-45
2000;217(10)1492-1499

kandy
April 20th, 2005, 10:56 AM
Db7: Thanks so much for the statistics! Those were really helpful. Since our newest edition is still young, he was still eating with his bowls on the floor anyway, but we had raised bowls for our last newf (gone now :sad: ). I had planned to do some research before he got bigger, but since I have seen so much good information and advice on this site, I thought I would ask here first. I really appreciate the information and with the risk of bloat increasing 110% with raised feeding bowls, Parker will definetely be getting his dinner on the floor!!

goldenblaze
April 20th, 2005, 11:05 AM
Also, don't forget that some plastic bowls release a chemical that kills the black pigment in the nose. Not all plastics do this, but if your doggie's nose is pinker than it used to be, look into getting a metal one. The pigment does replenish though. We did an experiment on a golden retriever this summer and it took about 3 months to see a real difference in the darkness of his nose once the bowls were switched.


Prin was it in the summer or winter? Reason I ask is Golden Retriever's can and do get snownose in the winter the nose turns a shade of pink but returns to black in the summer. Blaze's nose was very black until this winter his first winter, now nice weather it's all coming back to black... I like the black so happy about it but that is why I wonder...snownose happens often. I have never heard of a bowl doing this. :confused:

mona_b
April 20th, 2005, 11:15 AM
I have grown up with GSD's and have raised 3 of my own.These breeds are proneto Bloat.As well as all deep chested breeds.I have never raised the bowls.A friend of mune lost her St.Bernard to bloat at 8 months of age.She had the bowl raised.Bloat ususually happens in older dogs.But it can happen to younger ones also.There is much more to preventing Bloat then just keeping the bowl lowered.Here is a great site.And this is another reason I do not just feed mine just dry.And more then just once a day.

http://www.globalspan.net/bloat.htm

corona99
April 20th, 2005, 01:27 PM
Ours is on the floor, but raised on one side so the kibbles fall in one spot. That, plus he gets his 1 and 1/2 cups fed to him in little tiny portions...about 7 pours. He just wolfs it down SO FAST that if we don't do this, he always gets sick after. We've tried telling him slow...it does not work. I think maybe b/c he was a stray, that he always felt the need to gobble it up fast before someone else did??? We are used to it now, 3 times a day with small pours, but let me tell you the looks I get if we have to have someone feed him!!

Prin
April 20th, 2005, 01:49 PM
Prin was it in the summer or winter? Reason I ask is Golden Retriever's can and do get snownose in the winter the nose turns a shade of pink but returns to black in the summer. Blaze's nose was very black until this winter his first winter, now nice weather it's all coming back to black... I like the black so happy about it but that is why I wonder...snownose happens often. I have never heard of a bowl doing this. :confused:
It's true. It does happen. I finally found a somewhat reputable source that said it: (from here: http://208.234.20.93/vetinfo.com.html
5) Contact dermatitis can cause loss of pigment in the nose -- some dogs are reported to be sensitive to the plastic that is found in some feeding bowls, for instance. Continual irritation of the nasal planum from a cause like this might lead to loss of pigment. Usually the lips are also are inflamed or may have pigment loss if they are dark, too.

I have "played" with this doggy for two years and his nose just faded and faded. When he switched the bowls, like I said, it gradually came back.

I heard somewhere that when you show a dog that is supposed to have a black nose, but has a pink one, you mix iodine and starch and it makes a black paste that (supposedly) is not harmful to the dog... The things people do... Personally, I don't think it's all that important-- Boo eats out of a plastic bowl with no problems (but it may not have the suspect chemical) and Jemma eats out of a metal bowl because it was a concern for her previous owner.

snooks
April 20th, 2005, 02:44 PM
Ours is on the floor, but raised on one side so the kibbles fall in one spot. That, plus he gets his 1 and 1/2 cups fed to him in little tiny portions...about 7 pours. He just wolfs it down SO FAST that if we don't do this, he always gets sick after. We've tried telling him slow...it does not work. I think maybe b/c he was a stray, that he always felt the need to gobble it up fast before someone else did??? We are used to it now, 3 times a day with small pours, but let me tell you the looks I get if we have to have someone feed him!!

I had a old dog that was like that, he would eat so fast he was sick. LOL I put a large baseball in his dish. It slowed him right down. :thumbs up

jjgeonerd
April 20th, 2005, 04:57 PM
This may be a dumb question, but what is "bloat"? Is it the dog just getting more air while eating, or is it serious?

dmc123
April 20th, 2005, 06:10 PM
I was already ready to ask the same question, jjgeonerd, when I saw your post, but still will ask....

What is bloat?

Diane

kandy
April 20th, 2005, 06:45 PM
I got this definition off the net and copied the whole section.

Bloat is the common term for Gastric Dilation-Torsion Complex.
This condition involves the swelling of the stomach from gas, fluid or both.
Bloat is a Veterinary Emergency!!!
There are no home remedies.
Symptoms can be subtle. Learn to recognize them.

Paces around continuously, or, lies down in odd places
Salavating, panting, whining
Acts as if he can't get comfortable
Acts agitated
Unproductive vomiting or retching (the dog may produce frothy foamy vomit in small quanties)
Excessive drooling, usually accompanied by retching noises
Swelling in abdominal area (may or may not be noticeable)
If you see ANY combination of these symptoms, CALL YOUR VET and get the dog...there as fast as possible.

dmc123
April 20th, 2005, 08:32 PM
thanks kandy

Prin
April 20th, 2005, 10:10 PM
Basically, when a deep chested dog builds up too much unreleased gas, the stomach twists and seals at both ends. Gas continues to build up and the doggy suffers.

Frankly, I praise my doggies when they burp... I can't bring myself to do it when they fart, but I should. I just really don't want them ever to hold it in. Jemma is already embarrassed by it, so I worry. When she burbs she looks all guilty and submissive... Cute, but I'd rather her be ok with it...

greaterdane
April 20th, 2005, 10:29 PM
Atticus has no problems with the farting he prefers to do them when everyone is sleeping.

mona_b
April 21st, 2005, 10:40 AM
This defination is from the link I posted.

The technical name for bloat is "Gastric Dilatation-Volvulus" ("GDV"). Bloating of the stomach is often related to swallowed air (although food and fluid can also be present). It usually happens when there's an abnormal accumulation of air, fluid, and/or foam in the stomach ("gastric dilatation"). Stress can be a significant contributing factor also. Bloat can occur with or without "volvulus" (twisting). As the stomach swells, it may rotate 90 to 360, twisting between its fixed attachments at the esophagus (food tube) and at the duodenum (the upper intestine). The twisting stomach traps air, food, and water in the stomach. The bloated stomach obstructs veins in the abdomen, leading to low blood pressure, shock, and damage to internal organs. The combined effect can quickly kill a dog.

doggy lover
April 22nd, 2005, 04:09 PM
My last dog Travis bloated when he was 5, he was a GSD X BMD. We were lucky I had read about bloat in a vet book and knew what was happening we were on our way home from the cottage, so we rushed him to an emergency vet. The vet said we were lucky that he had only bloated and not twisted. They passed a tube up his rectum and put in a gallon of warm water and passed the gass that way. He then had to go to our vet and have his stomach stiched to his abdoman wall to stop it from twisting if it happened again, which was a high risk. Almost $2ooo later we were happy to have him for another 4years. For any farm people it is like bloat in dairy cattle. We had used a raised dish for him and still used one up until he was pts due to bone cancer last year, I had also heard to use a raised dish then not too so which one I really don't know ask your vet what he thinks.

doggy lover
April 22nd, 2005, 04:13 PM
Bloat can kill a dog in the matter of hours, it cut off blood supplies and damages the spleen, as well as all the other things that have been menshioned on this thread.